TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think scum norwee wants me in endgame.

Scum wants a miselim today and if we don’t flip scum today, game ends with Akarin NK.

right we were talking about yesterday. I notice that norwee is now flipping on me now that I'm here in endgame with him. Which is exactly how I would expect scum norwee to play it if he were taking me to endgame.

But his chances would be best with your townflip, so I don’t really see that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, I was doing the same thing towards norwee yesterday that you're saying he was doing towards me so I don't know why that argument doesn't go both ways.

Well neither Norwee or FL wanted to flip you yesterday, so you’d make the most sense as their partner. I don’t think it’s Ram, so if it’s not you, then we’d be looking at a Norwee/FL team.

So, I can see associatives with either Norwee/FL and you.

So I think Norwee’s either town or scum with you. If he’s town, then you/FL makes the most sense. But FL was trying to flip Norwee on D2 and opposed your flip.

So, you look like the most likely buddy for either of them. So, I’m thinking that one of Norwee/FL is likely town based on this, so you’re probably the best chance of flipping scum but I want to see the other votes.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think its ramcius and norwee personally and you clearing ramcius doesn't make much sense to me.

Why? He was trying to save Pine?

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're still pretty much assuming the plan will go in this order.

TSQ flips scum ->
Pine JK's a slot and catches final scum or clears them as town.

But what i am saying is that the entire premise is flawed from the get go, because if TSQ flips town then he can't clear anyone. So unless you are absolutely sure TSQ flips scum this plan is completely folly and it also makes complete sense for scum!Pine to argue for this plan sunce he would know TSQ is flipping town.

But Ram is saying that either of you flipping town clears the other one right? So why does scum!Ram say this?

Because he only needs to elim 1 more player if he mislims today. And the easiest path for scum!Ram is to elim FL, either before or after scum!Pine.

I mean it's also pretty obvious that following a TSQ or Norwe townflip, he would not have the credibility to mislim the other.

This is my problem here @Shea. Why doesn’t scum!Norwee want town!you flipped?

[Nancy Drew 39]

You're still pretty much assuming the plan will go in this order.

TSQ flips scum ->
Pine JK's a slot and catches final scum or clears them as town.

But what i am saying is that the entire premise is flawed from the get go, because if TSQ flips town then he can't clear anyone. So unless you are absolutely sure TSQ flips scum this plan is completely folly and it also makes complete sense for scum!Pine to argue for this plan sunce he would know TSQ is flipping town.

But Ram is saying that either of you flipping town clears the other one right? So why does scum!Ram say this?

Because he only needs to elim 1 more player if he mislims today. And the easiest path for scum!Ram is to elim FL, either before or after scum!Pine.

I mean it's also pretty obvious that following a TSQ or Norwe townflip, he would not have the credibility to mislim the other.

This is my problem here @Shea. Why doesn’t scum!Norwee want town!you flipped?

I already answered this, because he can't get me flipped without losing that town cred. You really think scum norwee can just do a 180 on me and then he gets tons of credibility when I come up town?

That's just straight up not true.

Yes because, your townflip would mean we’d elim one of Pine/Ram today not Norwee, so scum!Norwee looks the best from a Shea townflip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why would my town flip mean we wouldn't elim norwee if he flips on me to miselim? That logic just is straight up false.

I don’t think you’re understanding my point? I’m saying it would have been in scum!Norwee’s interest to flip town!you > Pine because then he probably would have jk’d either Ram or unlikely FL. However, if you’re town, then scum!Norwee would have nothing to fear from jk!Pine because even if he jk’d Norwee, his buddy - if it were FL or Ram could still have killed Misty.

So my point is that scum!Norwee really had nothing to gain by flipping Pine > you unless you’re his buddy or he’s town. Norwee!scum’s not wanting to flip town!you doesn’t really make much sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

yeah, it's just Status and Norwegian here Nancy

I want to see who they vote for but Shea having everyone in his PoE without doing tiers seemed scummy to me. He should have some type of ordered PoE if he was town. Saying anybody but Akarin reads like anyone but me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oka and Math are begging me to vote no elim, so unless Akarin thinks otherwise, I’ll do that.

VOTE: No elim

[Nancy Drew 39]

Votecount 4.02

Not Voting (6): Nancy Drew 39(11), Flavor Leaf(12), thestatusquo(0), Ramcius(5), NorwegianboyEE(1), Akarin(0)

With 6 alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-10 18:45:00)

Mod Notes

• Have fun!

If we miselim, scum wins because Akarin probably dies tonight, so game ends but with no elim, even with Akarin’s death, we have 5 still left. Although, it probably won’t change anything just give us more time and if we hit one scum, then I’d obviously be the NK and it would then be up to the two remaining town but Akarin NK gives us no new info, so I think it just drags the game out.

Math thinks you and Norwee are doing scum theatre. I don’t think I’ve really ever seen that from scum!you and not to this extent. My vote is probably spiritually on Shea but until Akarin weighs in, it really doesn’t matter,

[Nancy Drew 39]

doesnt akarin just always die on a no elim?

Yes but we get one more day. I just don’t think it makes any difference.

[Nancy Drew 39]

im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

But we haven’t had any even or odd roles in this setup but I suppose it’s possible?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm really sorry everyone.

I'll try to get back to rereading stuff tomorrow or something, sorry.

I do want at least some time to try to catch up before we end the day if that's what we're doing.

I can't remember why I had this thought, but I think I'd rather vote TSQ than Norwee first.

I guess we’re on the same page. Hopefully he flips scum and then we’d have me and Ram trying to decide between FL/Norwee but rn I lean Norwee but I think Shea’s posting today has been the scummiest.

[Nancy Drew 39]

im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

But we haven’t had any even or odd roles in this setup but I suppose it’s possible?

im just hoping, you dont need to take everything i say so literal, i exaggerate and talk about hypotheticals for fun a lot

Well, that was pretty much what Norwee/Shea were saying about Pine’s role, that it was fake and didn’t fit in with the setup.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That’s why I think he’s scum. He’s pretty much saying that everyone can be scum except for him and Akarin, which while fhpov technically true tends to come more from a scum mindset, because town likes to look at odds. So the “scum is equally likely to be anyone but me or (in this case Akarin)”, is a scum not a town perspective.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I literally didn't even include you in the same post as the discussion of the other three because I think you're so much less likely to be scum.

Like what.

I don’t think Ram is scum and while the possibility of absolutely insane scum theatre with Norwee and FL is either possible or they’re antagonistic scumbuds, Occam’s razor points to greater > rand unlikely, so you have the greatest buddy equity for both Norwee/FL. However, given that FL was the least likely jk target because of doc claim, I lean to Norwee being most likely as your buddy if you flip scum.

Given Ram’s trying to save Pine as making him the least likely to be scum here of anyone other than of course Akarin or myself, it points to you because FL/Norwee’s interactions just seem to toxic to be buddies.

But even if we leave Ram out of it, I really don’t see a scum!Norwee/town!you situation making a whole lot of srnse based off of his play and your entire focus today seems to be more rooted in survivalism than in solving. You haven’t given any theories to any team not involving you and how it makes sense wrt Pine.

[Nancy Drew 39]

doesnt akarin just always die on a no elim?

Yes but we get one more day. I just don’t think it makes any difference.

Day just started, there is no reason for no elim, we can just discuss, we have plenty of time and Akarin's flip changes nothing

It was just a placeholder vote. I thought I made that clear?

[Nancy Drew 39]

im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

But we haven’t had any even or odd roles in this setup but I suppose it’s possible?

im just hoping, you dont need to take everything i say so literal, i exaggerate and talk about hypotheticals for fun a lot

Well, that was pretty much what Norwee/Shea were saying about Pine’s role, that it was fake and didn’t fit in with the setup.

that's why i say people shouldn't listen to setup spec, too easy for scum to manipulate it and swing it their way

That wasn't setup spec argument, mine was, their was that setup was badly designed, which always is red flag, when someone use that for an argument to push their scumread

Yes especially the part about him creating setups with gunsmiths without guns. Like if I am the hypothetical gunsmith in such a game, I wouldn’t not be a very happy camper.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Norwee

New placeholder vote

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ramcius get’s it. Nancy doesn’t. But i have evidence that proves i am much more likely town in this game, i will talk about it tommorow when it’s me VS FL. The safe shot today is to just eliminate TSQ. I’m not going to talk much about Akarin since FL already crumbed heavily he will likely just kill them tonight.

ORLY? Link/quote

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Norwee

New placeholder vote

Why make placeholder votes at all?

To seek reactions. I’m perfectly fine switching to Shea.

Norwee sounds informed. Like he knows you’re town and Shea is scum. I voted to let him know I’m not an idiot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh and i will not argue with FL today. I do not care for a single word he says. We can argue tommorow when it actually matters. My stance remains the same and i will attempt to convince Nancy to the truth tommorow.

If Norwegian was town, this post isn't said ever

Exactly because he knows the game won’t end with a Shea flip, otherwise he wouldn’t need to convince me of anything.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

My vote is spiritually on Shea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Still sorry,

Still keep not having any time and then not sleeping

Still think things will look up any day now.

I wonder how confident FL would be that I'd flip on him today given the previous day.

On the other hand, I've hardly been a big force for anything in this game (sorry).

But still, not like the vengeful thing is that useful that it had to die. We were treating Misty (rightfully) as basically conftown, so it means that scum wanted Misty dead more than me.

I was doccing you last night....

Yes scum still considered her a bigger threat than me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like there's actively no reason not to take the time today unless he's trying to make it so they can change the gamestate with a kill before talking it over

Yeah, Shea hardly posting definitely looks bad. I think possibly Nowee wants me alive because he knows my team would is heavily paranoing on you but Shea’s absence reads to me like scum who’s given up. If he was town here, he’d be putting in some efforts to get votes off of him.

@Norwee, I’m still waiting on you to explain that “Akarin crumb”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Night 4 Elimination

You wake up to find one member of your group missing.

Spoiler: Ramcius

Welcome, Ramcius! You are San-chan, a member of the

Anime Empire

.

Your Abilities

• Voice of the Empire
  : During the day phase, you may use your voice as a member of the Anime Empire to vote to eliminate one player.

Your Win Condition

• Destroy Untrod Tripod
  : You win when all threats to the Anime Empire have been eliminated and there is at least one Anime Empire member alive.

Please confirm by responding to this PM stating your alignment and character name.

The game thread can be found here.

Good luck, have fun, and destroy Untrod Tripod.

That’s really interesting. Hmmmm . . .

Why does scum kill Ram > confitown?

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was you and Shea who were gunning for Pine the most though and both of you jumped on me for saying Zor’s post wasn’t bad, then you locktowned TGP for agreeing with me about Zor.

Also, if you thought FL’s role was fake, why did you say the exact same thing for Pine, when Akarin pointed out that Pine’s role was actually more believable?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you need from me, Nancy? I feel like it should be obvious Norwegian is scum based on everything this game, but I’m also biased. I’m cool just letting him continue talking and out himself.

You could claim your true role since you’re now saying JOAT wasn’t it, right? There’s no reason not out it now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you need from me, Nancy? I feel like it should be obvious Norwegian is scum based on everything this game, but I’m also biased. I’m cool just letting him continue talking and out himself.

You could claim your true role since you’re now saying JOAT wasn’t it, right? There’s no reason not out it now.

I think it probably is Norwee but that would definitely help.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you need from me, Nancy? I feel like it should be obvious Norwegian is scum based on everything this game, but I’m also biased. I’m cool just letting him continue talking and out himself.

You could claim your true role since you’re now saying JOAT wasn’t it, right? There’s no reason not out it now.

Nah, it’s real, i was talking about as scum, you know i never claim what my role is, i always fake claim it

Right, you fakeclaimed jester in CoD. I think it’s Norwee.

VOTE: Norwee

[Nancy Drew 39]

You and Shea were trying to kill Pine on D2, FL wasn’t. Why would scum!FL push a different course of action than his buddy?

[Nancy Drew 39]

TSQ hasn’t even been trying to distance from me, because he felt very comfortable keeping up the image that we are both scum. Which is what FL has been banking on and why he resisted that TSQ flip on D3 so strongly because a Pine JK on me would confirm me town in the town!Pine world which FL understood was real because he is informed.

So why did you try so hard to kill him and save Shea?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also Status and Norwegian voted Status on the same page after Norwegian went "I am not doing anything this day phase, saving it for tomorrow"

yes, i was pushing for nancy to hammer and end the day, but the day ended when scum wanted it to with Norwegian/Status.

Right, I thought that hammer looked really sus. Like why would scum!you call for me to hammer if you were going to have Shea do it like 20 minutes later?

[Nancy Drew 39]

TSQ hasn’t even been trying to distance from me, because he felt very comfortable keeping up the image that we are both scum. Which is what FL has been banking on and why he resisted that TSQ flip on D3 so strongly because a Pine JK on me would confirm me town in the town!Pine world which FL understood was real because he is informed.

So why did you try so hard to kill him and save Shea?

Pine wasn’t going to jk FL, he would have jk’d Ram before FL, so you needed him dead more than FL.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hi, Shirou wants to proxy post and talk in real-time with Nancy.

Looking frw to it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, you know Shirou is probably the best person in-site on reading me/knowing my meta.

If you're believing FL is town because of "meta" reasons, can we talk about my meta in comparison?

From a meta perspective, Shirou knows with certainty that this really isn't scum!Norwe and wants to discuss that.

And if FL said the same about Auro would you expect anyone to take that seriously?

[Nancy Drew 39]

How much experience do you have with scum!Norwe?

Was it only dungus beetle game? When you compare dungus beetle me to this game, what's your opinion?

You have a team here, which you’ve relied on heavily.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, let's start with the exact reasons Shirou did strongly believe i was scum in that game according to them:

I didn't have real reads.
I wasn't pushing anyone.
I was waiting consensus before doing something.
I believed Shirou was "scum" but was still not fighting in-thread to oppose him.

Compared to this game, how exactly do you think this matches my play here? You can go back and read that game if you doubt Shirou's alignment and therefore their words, those were roughly the exact reasons Shirou did suspect me in that game.

Somewhere during the middle of D1, Sihrou noticed i wasn't actually trying to solve the game, i was merely being a tourist, and when Shirou engaged with me on that i was still lackluster.

I am in the top 3 posters in this game, and my posts here are longer than yours/FL, so technically i'm the most active voice. How does that match ANY scum game from me that you can find in my history?

Dann - teammate of flipped town - disagrees.

[Nancy Drew 39]

what does shirou have anything to do with kn owing you in this game? that's your teammate

+1



This is what my issue is with Norwee, he continues to make bad arguments like Ram died because he was confitown but what about Akarin? He literally doesn’t explain that at all.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Our team were all wrong on Pine, but Pine's read on FL felt too fake until he reconsidered later. Which honestly shouldn't be much of an surprise considering he was actually townreading scum!FL for no good reason during most of the game.

Nancy, if you can't bring yourself to believe in scum!FL like in previous TM, then just look at all the evidence from my meta pointing at me being town, and after that it's PoE.

Yes because FL wasn’t that big a threat to, Pine was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Our team were all wrong on Pine, but Pine's read on FL felt too fake until he reconsidered later. Which honestly shouldn't be much of an surprise considering he was actually townreading scum!FL for no good reason during most of the game.

Nancy, if you can't bring yourself to believe in scum!FL like in previous TM, then just look at all the evidence from my meta pointing at me being town, and after that it's PoE.

what does shirou have anything to do with kn owing you in this game? that's your teammate

[Nancy Drew 39]

what does shirou have anything to do with kn owing you in this game? that's your teammate

It's outside material. Facts that are literally impossible to manipulate because they stand outside of the boundaries of this game.

Shirou is pointing to a game versus scum!me where they literally meta cased me, and in the scum pt i admitted the case was completely on point.

Literally doesn't matter that he is my team mate in this game in this instance, Akarin/Nancy can check that game to see if Shirou's words are real, because they were town in that game.

They are saying the exact same things they said there in this game too.

Wrong post. Why should I put more stock in what your teammate says about your meta than a teammate of flipped town?

[Nancy Drew 39]

FL will claim this is WIFOM but consider these points:

1. Ico believed partially our FL case, you can go check Ico's ISO by yourself. And scum strongmanned Ico that night.

2. Pine started to consider a FL/Shea team. FL then changes his mind on Pine and hammers him before he can say more.

3. Ramcius believed it was FL/Shea team. Scum then nightkills him over conftown Akarin.

Do you really think this is some 200 IQ play from me rather than just the easier answer that FL is scum?

Shirou left btw since Nancy didn't bother answering in real time.

I thought you said Ram was confitown? Want me to look up that post?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't mind no elim, if we going this direction

I'm not voting Pine, unless someone is going to come up clean and claim something to justify strongman

I was thinking about potential elims and how their flips would influence our future:

TSQ green flip means it's Pine and FL, Norwee is clear, it's easy win, and someone getting earful from me after game for not claiming BP or protective, I'm not buying strongman as a red herring to counter 1 shot of doc
TSQ flips red, we flip Norwee/FL, in either order, we can afford 1 miselim

Pine flips green, we have to gamble on Norwee/FL/TSQ, twice, we have no miselim left
Pine flips red, it's me and FL getting elim

FL flips green, it's Norwee/TSQ, easy win
FL flips red, TSQ/Pine I guess, we can afford miselim

Norwee flips green, TSQ/FL/Pine, again gamble twice, yes, I'm taking into consideration that someone is being smartass and hiding their real role
Norwee flips red, we flip TSQ

VOTE: TSQ

I find this as best elim we have for today, and TSQ can keep "I haven't done anything scummy" for himself, it's PoE, not scumminess contest

I make sense as norwees partner unless you think mafia literally comes into today thinking "lets hard defend each other completely and immediately lose the game if one of us ever flips"

But go off I guess about your no case no reasoning PoE with no reasons whatsoever to think I'm scum.

Does this sound like a partner post? He was clearly trying to associate himself with me.

Pine wanted Shea flipped and you jk’d. If that happened, no Misty kill if you’re buddies.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't mind no elim, if we going this direction

I'm not voting Pine, unless someone is going to come up clean and claim something to justify strongman

I was thinking about potential elims and how their flips would influence our future:

TSQ green flip means it's Pine and FL, Norwee is clear, it's easy win, and someone getting earful from me after game for not claiming BP or protective, I'm not buying strongman as a red herring to counter 1 shot of doc
TSQ flips red, we flip Norwee/FL, in either order, we can afford 1 miselim

Pine flips green, we have to gamble on Norwee/FL/TSQ, twice, we have no miselim left
Pine flips red, it's me and FL getting elim

FL flips green, it's Norwee/TSQ, easy win
FL flips red, TSQ/Pine I guess, we can afford miselim

Norwee flips green, TSQ/FL/Pine, again gamble twice, yes, I'm taking into consideration that someone is being smartass and hiding their real role
Norwee flips red, we flip TSQ

VOTE: TSQ

I find this as best elim we have for today, and TSQ can keep "I haven't done anything scummy" for himself, it's PoE, not scumminess contest

I make sense as norwees partner unless you think mafia literally comes into today thinking "lets hard defend each other completely and immediately lose the game if one of us ever flips"

But go off I guess about your no case no reasoning PoE with no reasons whatsoever to think I'm scum.

Does this sound like a partner post? He was clearly trying to associate himself with me.

he's literally making an anti partner case in this post...

Status positioned in a way where it makes me look like the scum partner specifically because he did that type of stuff

Right because he didn’t think he was being flipped at that point. He would have been arguing the converse if he was actually buddies with you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m not going to talk much about Akarin since FL already crumbed heavily he will likely just kill them tonight.

this didn't happen, I guess

@Norwee?

Like I really think it’s beyond obvious he’s scum now, even Math (albeit kicking and screaming. I <3 you Math) has come around because of that hammer.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you've played solid,

I played like shit if i'm scum here. I'd have NK'd now both [Ramcius, Ico] which at some point believed that it was likely town!me or that that it was FL/Shea by the end.

The unique argument here is that it's WIFOM, it simply doesn't make sense for me to NK them for reasons other than WIFOM. But i think it's pretty obvious from my meta i rarely if ever do the WIFOM game.

You had to tr FL in order to push Pine because no one was buying a Pine/FL team.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ramcius is the worst kill i could ever make if i'm scum and it's a blatantly scummy stance from you to say otherwise lmao.

I disagree. He was most likely going to push you and you know it.

You also actively set me up with the "Oh FL gonna kill Akarin" then you actively kill elsewhere.

You couldn't kill Nancy because she's the most likely to hear everything you have to say out

But that’s only because people vastly underestimate me. In our versus game, I was far more focused on hiding being a mason than finding scum. I usually have much better reads, like in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ramcius was the unique person to believe in FL/TSQ rather than me/TSQ by yesterday end, and what a surprise, he dies. And now you say it was not a bad kill from us.
If people wanna lose to this scummy argument from FL then be my guest.

And yet, he acts like there's no reason he would ever say in game "FL gonna kill Akarin" then he kills Ramcius


@Nancy/Akarin - Please come end this

I’m already voting Norwee. Only Akarin can end this, which is probably the real reason Ram was killed > her because it gives scum more time. Scum knows Akarin has been AfK most of this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Norwee, I really like you as a person and someone to play with but none of those things are going to affect my read on you. I understand you’re extremely upset with me and I really feel for you but none of that has any affect on my read on you. Sorry.

I brought up Dann because the teammate of a flipped player’s reads > your own teammates’ reads.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m actually extremely good at getting inside people’s heads and analyzing their motivations. That’s how I knew with such confidence that Ydrasse did a failed vig on my slot before she ever admitted it. You just connect the dots and Norwee doesn’t seem to understand why for example, Shea self-hammering approximately 20 minutes after you call on me to vote and end the day, really makes no sense if you and Shea are buddies. My guess was, the timing of that self-hammer was done to make you look bad, probably ditto the Ram NK but to pull off this brilliant kind of scum gambit, Norwee would need to convincingly play the part of town having very clearly town indicative reactions and drawing town indicative conclusions but he consistently fails at replicating the necessary townie mindset necessary to pull this off, which extremely few scum players are capable of.

Like in his responding to my question about why Ram was the NK, he says because he’s confitown but that’s even more obviously true for Akarin. He later gives a much better response by saying how it benefited you but it’s also the sheer amount of contradictions in his narrative that give him away, like saying you crumbed Akarin NK, then never ever explaining it only to just conveniently drop that narrative altogether.

This is how for example sheep scumtold in a game I played with him by making continuous contradictions in his thought progression/narrative. Town almost never does this because a genuine townie thought process remains consistent even if wrong. Norwee obviously has done a far superior job of this but spotting massive contradictions in one’s thought process is something I tend to excel at spotting and in order for Norwee to be able to successfully fool me here, he’d have to both figure out a way of not doing that plus much better optics. Like you can’t be gunning for town!jk’s elim since pretty much D2, join with Shea in pushing me to vote Zor etc., especially when you have someone like jjh who apparently isn’t shit at detecting fake claims, which both Norwee and Shea used to hardpush Pine miselim.

As for Norwee playing differently than his typical scum meta, well he relied heavily on being coached obviously, because abour approximately well over two thirds of his posts involve paraphrasing either Shirou or jjh, which he’d obviously not do in a non team mafia setup.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My team wants me to vote no elim and force scum to shoot Akarin, which I think is pointless but they think she should have died > Ram but I don’t see why scum!Akarin shoots DEB, so I think that’s whack.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just like Akarin was gonna get killed last night

My team is obviously not reading the game, because even if there was a snowball’s chance in hell Akarin’s scum here, she couldn’t be scum with Shea, since he was trying to kill her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was making fun of the fact Norwegian said Akarin was gonna be killed yesterday

which you apparently mysteriously crumbed, which Norwee hasn’t yet bothered to link/quote that post like I asked him to.

Norwee is also telegraphing I won’t be killed but that would obviously be his best play if Akarin got replaced. I think it’s Norwee. His reads progression on TGP/you/Shea seem more convenient than logic based. He should also know that Pine flipping town looks bad since he made it a point of insisting that jjh said his role was fake and then he thinks Shirou of all people are going to convince of anything after Dung Beetle 2.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hopefully akarin just comes back

We can definitely hope but I sent her a message almost 2 weeks ago, that is still unread, so not super confident on that unfortunately. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s my team wanting that but I agree with you, nothing is going to change with a no elim. Both Norwee and Shea pushed me to vote Zor and both wanted to kill Pine on D2. Pine wanted to jk Norwee and flip Shea. FL was at no risk of jk due to doc claim, so Norwee was almost certain to be jk’d N3 had Pine not been miselimed. Ram would have been jk’d before FL. FL calls on me to hammer and approximately 20 mins later, Shea self-hammers.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Shea had been flipped, Pine would have 100%. jk’d you and if Misty didn’t die, it would have looked the worst for you. Scum!FL didn’t need to hammer Pine and he could just not NK’d and get towncred from that.

So a scum no kill after Shea red flip looks the worst for you and it makes total sense why you needed Pine to be elimed > Shea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

My team is insisting Norwee wouldn’t shoot Ram.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

My team is insisting Norwee wouldn’t shoot Ram.

Pooky’s insisting Norwee’s town because FL needed Ram dead.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I agree with Shea here. I think if either he or Norwee are scum here, it really doesn’t make any sense with each other, so I think the whole let’s flip Norwee’s PR partner Shea is unpersuasive and very likely wrong.

Nancy, I was clear enough before that my primary guess is TSQ/FL and Norwee simply don't have any other possible partner, I'm just saying that my guess might be wrong and FL is town here, then it leaves only Norwee to be TSQ's partner and Norwee can't be scum with anyone else

This is not what you've been arguing literally the whole day.

Convenient how it changes now that nancy disagrees.

It is strange how people might change their opinions, when they have time to think. Isn't that point of mafia? To gather clues and then try to figure out truth?

Also, I literally brought up theory of you and FL being scum team 2 days ago, but sure, think that I should just repeat same stuff over and over again, that's the way to win games of mafia, or maybe to get locked in asylum, I can't remember which one it is

I agree with Shea here. I think if either he or Norwee are scum here, it really doesn’t make any sense with each other, so I think the whole let’s flip Norwee’s PR partner Shea is unpersuasive and very likely wrong.

Nancy, I was clear enough before that my primary guess is TSQ/FL and Norwee simply don't have any other possible partner, I'm just saying that my guess might be wrong and FL is town here, then it leaves only Norwee to be TSQ's partner and Norwee can't be scum with anyone else

Why couldn’t Norwee be scum with anyone else? I don’t buy a Norwee/Shea team so Norwee is either scum with someone other than Shea or he’s town.

I'm saying flip TSQ, then FL, if that doesn't end game, then it's Norwee, it's not that complicated

Um, why no one talking? Anyway, anyone still doubt it's FL and TSQ? FL flipped on me and Pine, TSQ came up with me + Norwee team, it's obvious that they want to get either of us miselim'ed in ELO now

Why not Shea/Norwee or Norwee/FL?

Why FL refused to vote TSQ? Also, you think that was scumtheather between Norwee and FL?

What happened to your Norwee TR? I mean, if you tried to pair me with TSQ/FL, it would be more reasonable that Norwee

It’s possible.I just can’t help thinking that FL hammering is scum suicide, because it makes him look seriously bad and he usually tries to manipulate the gamestate better as scum.

Who else could hammer? You or me? I wasn't going to and you refused to do it, so he had to hammer, he was too scared of jk, he knew that claim was real, he was even preparing Pine's kill with pointing out how scum gonna kill jk Pine. Also you forgetting that FL can do anything he want and people just brush it off as a FL's crazy playstyle. Let's take his rush to hammer Zor, when I called it bad elim, his excuse is that "DEB would've hammered anyway", but in reality who cares if DEB hammers and not FL? What does it change? Thing was that he was afraid that DEB won't be in time for hammer and someone will unvote to start discussion with me on why Zor's elim was bad, same thing with Pine, he was in a rush before Pine posted his case on FL, couldn't he really wait?

Also, what other outcome we could have? No elim? That's nothing good for scum

Um, why no one talking? Anyway, anyone still doubt it's FL and TSQ? FL flipped on me and Pine, TSQ came up with me + Norwee team, it's obvious that they want to get either of us miselim'ed in ELO now

You flipped on me, don’t try and act like it was the other way around.

Norwegian/Status
Norwegian/Ramcius

I flipped on you after you refused to vote TSQ, you were calling me and TSQ team long before that, ofc it was just your paranoia

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pooky’s hard tr Norwee here.

He says we should flip FL and if game doesn’t end its obviously Norwee.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I hope that whatever ends up happening you'll learn a valuable lesson about not trusting FL, he even tried to push you earlier but gave up once you pushed back hard on it and became very suspicious. Now he's done all he can to sweet talk you.

@Norwee, I really like you as a person and someone to play with but none of those things are going to affect my read on you. I understand you’re extremely upset with me and I really feel for you but none of that has any affect on my read on you. Sorry.

You’re saying nothing will convince you? Should i stop wasting my time with you? You’re unable to see a world where FL is scum here and has done everything perfectly to appease you and discredit me?

Seriously, i will self-vote right now and put the blame on you.
I’ve done all i can to point out the truth.

Depends on your response here.

The last thing i want is to keep wasting my time on this shit game if what i say will not change the outcome.

I was considering the possibility of no elim, but scum can just no kill.

Oh, no elim might be a good choice after all.

I'm really sorry about not being so out of it all game and not voting now by the way, I know you guys are probably just going in circles, but I don't want to throw the game on a middle of the night vote when I haven't given it the thought it deserves.

Voting me is easy. Voting scum is hard because you need to convince Nancy.
Do you want the game to end quick in town loss or end slow and painfully with a scum elimination and town win? Your choice.
Nothing i say will convince Nancy so it's up to you. Good luck.

And yes, i'm leaving it all to you.
I'm not going to waste anymore of my fucking time on this crap.

Pooky thinks Norwee is out of his scumrange.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Um, why no one talking? Anyway, anyone still doubt it's FL and TSQ? FL flipped on me and Pine, TSQ came up with me + Norwee team, it's obvious that they want to get either of us miselim'ed in ELO now

This post seriously looks bad for FL.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Pooky has convinced me. He laid out everything in our team discord.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nah Pine, Norwee Town

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think its ramcius and norwee personally and you clearing ramcius doesn't make much sense to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think scum norwee wants me in endgame.

Scum wants a miselim today and if we don’t flip scum today, game ends with Akarin NK.

right we were talking about yesterday. I notice that norwee is now flipping on me now that I'm here in endgame with him. Which is exactly how I would expect scum norwee to play it if he were taking me to endgame.

[Nancy Drew 39]

bringing nancy in the poe right now doesnt seem smart if he was scum

FL defending Shea here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

intent to self hammer

Why would town!you self-hammer?

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

[Nancy Drew 39]

But why does scum!Norwee kill Ram when he was going to push you > confitown!Akarin?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like, im obviously biased because i know im town, but ramcius kill just happened so Norwegian would flip you

Why would I be flipped?

[Nancy Drew 39]

who's your 4th teammate, Nancy? Pooky and Mathblade tunnel me in every single game ive played with them

Oka.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like, im obviously biased because i know im town, but ramcius kill just happened so Norwegian would flip you

Why would I be flipped?

you took it too literal.

flip your read

Oh. Yeah I think TM is over rated. I still don’t see why you ask me to hammer and have Shea self-hammer 20 minutes later.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i dont think my team can win anyways, and i put a very low amount of effort into this year's team mafia in general.

And I'm gonna go away, if only temporarily, who knows, im just kinda over it.

I was also toxic earlier a lot, so it's just a better narrative if norwegian wins

I obviously don’t want to elim you if you’re town. I am really sick to death of this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I still don’t understand why Norwee kills Ram when he could use him to help push you? Like why not just kill Akarin?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah I’ve see scum do that sometimes but in many games they don’t so the RvS buddy thing really isn’t a reliable tell.

It just seems counterintuitive for Norwee to kill Ram, when Ram was 100% going to vote you. The Shea self hammer gives me pause though but why did you hammer Pine before he could present his Jingle case?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwegian was unable to win this game without Nancy changing her vote to me.

Nancy-Ramcius in the final 4 would not have done that ever this game.

He couldn't kill Nancy because there wasn't ever a chance that I as scum would have killed you.

Ram decided it was you/Shea, so why does Norwee put himself through that just to frame you?

And why did you never want to kill Shea?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah I’ve see scum do that sometimes but in many games they don’t so the RvS buddy thing really isn’t a reliable tell.

It just seems counterintuitive for Norwee to kill Ram, when Ram was 100% going to vote you. The Shea self hammer gives me pause though but why did you hammer Pine before he could present his Jingle case?

the case was on Status and Myself.

The only thing that it would have done was make it more likely I get misfaded

Pine jk on you would guilty Norwee and clear you with a no kill.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And from the POV I was in, I needed Pine or Norwegian dead, the inverse of Ramcius.

I realized Ramcius and I were seeing the game from effectively the same position, but me being locked with Norwegian, and Ramcius being locked with Status.


Ramcius became conf town when Status flipped Red.

Probably when Pine flipped green, so Ramcius/Akarin were both conf town, don't think Akarin was higher than Ramcius there, they were the same, except Ramcius took more time to go over the options, and was effectively more dangerous and harder to convice than Akarin.

Ramcius would have let me speak and did analysis with me, even if he thought I was scum, and I guarantee you, we would have talked it through in a way where you would have seen without a doubt as well that Norwegian was scum

Ram thought it was you/Shea before he died. And you always pushed Norwee > Shea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah I’ve see scum do that sometimes but in many games they don’t so the RvS buddy thing really isn’t a reliable tell.

It just seems counterintuitive for Norwee to kill Ram, when Ram was 100% going to vote you. The Shea self hammer gives me pause though but why did you hammer Pine before he could present his Jingle case?

the case was on Status and Myself.

The only thing that it would have done was make it more likely I get misfaded

Pine jk on you would guilty Norwee and clear you with a no kill.

Why would Pine JK me? I was doccing Akarin.

Also, why did I protect Akarin, who I called out as a PR, mind you, to push claimed Vanilla Norwegian.

That’s why you shouldn’t have hammered him because you’d be clear.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Only Pine/Ram wanted Shea.

[Nancy Drew 39]

in thread protected, because I was defending Akarin on Day 2.

Had I pushed Akarin, and if I was scum, that would have actively prevented DEB from being shot.

For me to have been scum this game, you have to believe I played this game essentially by myself because Status/DEB line does absolutely nothing in conjunction with me, but it assists Norwegian's pushes completely.

DEB and I would have played some type of gambit.

I don't know.

I just think these are actively things that show that I am town, but I'm unsure how else to get you to believe it.

At this point, it's not really important for me to explain why people did what, I just know for a fact he did for some reason at this point.

That’s true but I’ve seen scum do the whole good cop/bad cop thing too. I don’t remember Norwee’s interactions with Akarin but you hardpushed Norwee and he hardpushed Pine.

Only ones who were gunning for Akarin D2 were Shea/TGP.

I think I will wait for Akarin’s catch up.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will wait for her catchup and reread the game. This game is giving me a massive headache. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

But please keep quoting stuff, that helps me a lot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nah Pine, Norwee Town

So you think it’s TvT then? Can you explain your confidence on town!Pine? Do you have a read on FL yet or no?

I don’t understand why Norwee is the counterwagon to Akarin?

That post was talking to Pine since they had just came at Norwee. I could go either way with Pine honestly.
I think some people just don’t like Norwee, that’s why they’re the counter.

No, he's actually scummy

Hmmm . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pooky is beyond convinced on FL!scum/Norwee!town ftr.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Can you share Dkkoba’s thoughts on me? I think Pooky/Koba are both decent players and should be able to read me. But i see Koba as better when it comes to knowing my play.

Koba also locktowned FL and that was much earlier so, I don’t think that’s particularly helpful but Pooky has gone through the entire game with a fine tooth comb and has convinced me on FL!scum.

I asked him to post it all in our team PT because he’s referenced posts from Ram, Pine, Shea, you. Zor, molla, Ico, DEB and of course FL.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

No way does scum!Norwee ever kill Ram here > Akarin. Scum!Norwee kills Akarin in order to get Ram to pressure me into voting FL. To suggest otherwise, is to basically suggest Norwee is a masochist who would rather make FL look bad, than take the easy route by shooting Akarin.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pooky is a scum hunting genius but it’s unfortunately all on discord and I don’t know how to c & p that. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

There is no game where Pooky and Dkkoba has failed to correctly ascertain my allignment and i am fairly confident they are able to correctly read me in this game as well. If they tell you i’m town Nancy, i suggest you to listen.

Yes well he correctly read you as scum in Dung Beetle 1 and he says he thinks you’re out of your scumrange here. But no way do you kill Ram - not after Ram has decided on a Shea/FL team and FL hammered Pine because he knew Jingle would be able to convince us all he’s scum. If he had nothing to fear from Pine’s Jingle case, he wouldn’t have hammered Pine before he had a chance to post it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

A Norwegian town flip means Pine is always flipped tomorrow, so Ramcius partner could have tried to get the vanilla that I was seeing as his 1v1 faded. This game has always been 1 of Pine/Norwegian with 1 of Ramcius/Status, and Pine/Status is the only pairing I don't think possible of those

Pine/Ramcius
Norwegian/Ramcius
Norwegian/Status

exactly what i've been saying

And there it is - Norwee Townflip leads to me tomorrow, boom, Shea/FL win. They just have to survive today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

A Norwegian town flip means Pine is always flipped tomorrow, so Ramcius partner could have tried to get the vanilla that I was seeing as his 1v1 faded. This game has always been 1 of Pine/Norwegian with 1 of Ramcius/Status, and Pine/Status is the only pairing I don't think possible of those

Pine/Ramcius
Norwegian/Ramcius
Norwegian/Status

exactly what i've been saying

And there it is - Norwee Townflip leads to me tomorrow, boom, Shea/FL win. They just have to survive today.

This is why FL needed to lim either Norwee or Pine because he knew that when either flips town, he can push the other one.

Shea who had been defending Norwee allgame suddenly flips on Norwee and calls him scum but not FL. Shea was hardpushing a Norwee flip but he majorly fucked up when he put me into his PoE and FL defended him for it until I quashed that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Then he should be fine with a Shea elim. A Shea elim solves the game, and also would support his theory.

His hard resistance to this is wildly suspicious, as is his days-long silence until things start to go against the you/me dichotomy.

Norwee, Jingle and I are becoming increasingly worried that it’s been Shea/FL all along, subtly pushing the you/me dichotomy. They win either way there.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Then he should be fine with a Shea elim. A Shea elim solves the game, and also would support his theory.

His hard resistance to this is wildly suspicious, as is his days-long silence until things start to go against the you/me dichotomy.

Norwee, Jingle and I are becoming increasingly worried that it’s been Shea/FL all along, subtly pushing the you/me dichotomy. They win either way there

.

This is what probably would have been a large part of Jingle’s case, had FL not hammered him before he could post it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you can call me terrible all you want but when players start taking pushes so personally then the game stops being a game

if players really need to start insulting you on a personal level as a response to a push, no matter how shitty the push, then the game stops being a game for me

there was a lot wrong with this particular game, and i take my share of responsability - but holy fuck i did not like this playerlist at all

i have no personal beef with any of you outside of the Game of Mafia - but this was not a pleasant experience

/r

If this weren’t literally TM, I would have replaced out because of FL. I don’t think the mods did enough to keep the game civil.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This game was a thing.

Took forever to convince Nancy FL was scum.

FL did a really good job though

Gg wp

I actually thought his role sounded fake. I thought Pine’s was real. I still don’t understand why Norwee thought this.

@Math, you don’t understand how he wore me down with the toxicity. I think I just didn’t want to deal with it anymore.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This game was a thing.

Took forever to convince Nancy FL was scum.

FL did a really good job though

Gg wp

I actually thought his role sounded fake. I thought Pine’s was real. I still don’t understand why Norwee thought this.

@Math, you don’t understand how FL wore me down with the toxicity. I think I just didn’t want to deal with it anymore.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you can call me terrible all you want but when players start taking pushes so personally then the game stops being a game

if players really need to start insulting you on a personal level as a response to a push, no matter how shitty the push, then the game stops being a game for me

there was a lot wrong with this particular game, and i take my share of responsability - but holy fuck i did not like this playerlist at all

i have no personal beef with any of you outside of the Game of Mafia - but this was not a pleasant experience

/r

pretty much this

there were a lot of times where i was basically not reading the game because it was just personal attacks without any actual game aspects so i would just skip ahead

+1

TM needs to have a much lower threshold of toxicity tolerance than non-TM games. This literally should never happen again in any TM game ever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Night 3

NorwegianboyEE

- attempts to eliminate himself during the night - fails, does not have that ability.

This is how frustrated Norwee was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Main slots that caused me ire was Flavour Leaf, Pine, and sorry to say this but also Nancy Drew.
I just feel like sometimes you get irrationally emotional when scumread or insulted in some way. And rather than try to de-escalate the situation you make it worse by targeting that person and ranting about them for pages to end. Which isn’t to say your feelings there aren’t valid, but it can really mess up the game for everyone to have to read that and it really distracts from the purpose of the game.

I felt that certain players made comments that were unnecessarily hurtful, untrue and unfair to me that went to actual attacks on my character - so well beyond being scumread - so I view this as actually a mischaracterization of what happened in this game, which I feel I did absolutely nothing to warrant.

I wouldn’t go so far as to ask to you subject yourself to having to reread what I’m referring to but if you did, I think you’d find out that your recall of certain events is probably different than what you remember.

I am not required to to allow anyone to to push a miselim on me and as long as I don’t respond to toxicity with additional toxicity and I don’t believe I was guilty of that in this game, I’m good.

I didn’t get upset at being wrongly sr ftr, I got upset whenever I felt that my character was being outright attacked. I know this because whenever I get wrongly sr in what I perceive to be a very respectful way, I handle it very differently.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If i'm remembering the cause wrong then fault's on me. But i still don't think your response is justified. You should report it, or tell them you strongly disagree with what they said in one post and then move on.

Like I already said, you’d actually need to reread specifically what I’m referring to but I wouldn’t ask that you or anyone else voluntarily subject yourself to that.

And I did report it MULTIPLE times both in PMs and in my team discord chat and I was told that it was being handled pretty much but I don’t feel enough was done.

[Nancy Drew 39]

[Nancy Drew 39]

That was a good entertainment, chess and poker examples, but you know, you should go a little bit deeper, you can't just use general idea, when you you speaking for specific circumstances. Sure, part of poker is bluffing, but also it's part of recognising if your opponent is susceptible for bluff, same for chess, you have to know, if you opponent is weak enough to make a blunder, or they simple look at you with a disgust for underestimating their intelligence - no one likes to be treated like an idiot. In this case, Nancy was a tipping point, Akarin would just sheep her, she wouldn't go against Nancy. So you saying that bring even more toxicity in this game via FL vs Nancy fight was a right choice, because you think there was non 0% chance to convince her? Key word here is "you think", there was no salvaging any more

Akarin was the first one to notice that something was off about you being the nk. She thought it was “weird” and then Norwee said it was because you were “obvtown”.

Like Akarin wasn’t?

So, yeah Akarin was already suspicious of that and after I laid out Pooky’s case, there’s no way in hell she wouldn’t have sheeped me.

@FL, no offense but your toxicity bar is unreasonably low. I replaced out of game for far far less than that. If you are causing the rest of the playerlist to be demoralized, that’s “too toxic”.


My theory is that’s the real reason for the ban but the mods for whatever reason didn’t want to say that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@mod, are we ever going to get to see the scum PT?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is the scum PT ever going to get released?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry for the delay. Released.

PMs work well if you want to get my attention. This forum doesn't have a functional @ feature.

Link?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Links:

1. Game Thread
   
2. Mafia PT
   
3. Neighorhood PT

Oh nm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Mafia PT

yeah, ill apologize in a little bit.

i absolutely do not mean it

Great, things just keep getting better for me


not.