Let's Study Games - Redemption Mechanics

[Cheery Dog]

KSS also had a returneee

[Cheery Dog]

So going through the 7 games that had returnees that I either played in and/or spectated. I probably can't go into much detail on the ones I spectated, actually I'm going to take out RtC and PvWvC because I actually can't remember the returnee twist for either of them. (I think I flaked from RtC and choose to only log into PvWvC at like F5)

Doctor Who
The was in which someone could return here was the games big twist. Can possibly be reused if we have another time travel themed game. Unable to be touched without that.

Arkham City
Being a sequel to Arkham Asylum, returnees were expected here. This was also the first time the game within the game featured with Death Row. It was a unique experience going in there, and not knowing how damaging it actually was to people arriving later, it was a good twist at the time.

Civilization
What what I remember, this was a direct copy (without the other strange twists that arkham had) of the previous returnee twist. I think it basically highlighted the problems of the format, even though it was the middle crowd that managed to come out of it.

Killing School Semester
This one was basically pointless? They just replaced a challenge elimination player, with people getting eliminated via challenges is another story all together. Timing of it being premerge is fine though. Might have changed stuff when early votes were on small tribes.

Equestria
Came back into the game via votes from players in game. I believe this is the best solution of how to have someone return if you're going to have a big group of people to vie for it. The choice of who came back mattered, even if it did still end up being unfair to the less well-versed played.

Barely Survivor
I think Silverclaw summed this one up fairly nicely above. Doing the in game as big brother meant there was a chance of the late comers surviving, and I think there were multiple other holes that happened? I didn't pay all that much attention myself, but all in premerge was fairly decent.

Survivor Of The Fittest
Fitness challenges were good. (I count them as returnees). The EoE was not. Mostly because it was all happening late game. With how hard it is to navigate through merge in the first place, it is not fun to suddenly have another game to play.
Being with other jurors there didn't make it any easier, and I don't know if others actually strategised there all that much, but I knew I was dead on arrivial if I couldn't win every challenge regardless, and I know I tried to get conversations going again, but the scrambling required to attempt to survive a merge vote and then to be faced with more votes? Not good. Betrayals are heavy in merge, and there is nobody you can meet up with that you haven't previously met upon returning.
Had there not be the vote eliminations here, I could have enjoyed it a bit more, but those just felt like they ruined the atmosphere of the game.

I have also experienced returnee twists in live discord games. Those have all been fine, I don't know if it was just me returning in those weekend games Monty ran through challenges, but they felt like they were valid.

To actually answer the question of their purpose, I believe it is to be thematic. Nobody is going to actually complain that there isn't one that exists, but if such a twist fits your theme go for it.
Just please don't shuffle around the orders of eliminations using it! I majorly still dislike winning immunity at what I believe to be F10 and end up finishing 10th. (SotF)
My other direct experience with Arkham I went out at 19th and ended up 19th, so I don't have a direct complaint for that in general.

Just remember to keep your returnees coming back in pre-merge if you're going to have them.

As for being a mod, said game hasn't actually happened (and no idea if it will ever happen), but I know I originally planned for returnees when I started designing Zoombinis, to make up for a bad twist I was going to put in at the start of the game.
I then scrapped the bad twist, and there was no longer a reason to have returnees.

[Cheery Dog]

I feel like if a game managed to classify as standard with a returnee twist, it definitely needs revealed at the start of the game.
I would not expect one to ever occur in a vanilla game.
I also assume for the most part complex games just automatically have a hidden one.

[Cheery Dog]

I Think a Doctor Who returnee if they made it to the end would have had a chance. Although that game was also unique in not having a ponderosa was actually only formed into F3.
I don't remember ruling Stormy out because they were voted out in a past timeline. I could be wrong there though.
Like Jack's three returns meant he was actually in a strong position to win the game.

I think with Fittest my mind was out of the potential returnees only Bunny stood any chance of getting my vote. This was due to how they had played they game and then interacted on EoE.
The votes was probably still always going to either Eagle or Kestrel for the win there, but I don't think I could have ruled out people simply for getting voted out once.

And to add to DeathNote's point about the high of him returning. Getting knocked out of the chance of returning was a pretty big low for me in fittest. (Even though I knew it would be coming, and it probably more related to my failure to read the entire text for what to me seemed like a must win challenge)

[Cheery Dog]

Arguments about just doing away with returnee twists because a returnee has not been able to win a game yet so not make sense to me.
And I suspect these same people would be arguing for removing them as a thing if a returnee had won a game.

Every game only has 1 winner. With the amount of returnees that have made it to the end so far, there is nothing to actually judge on, just because some have got there does not mean that one should have won.

[Cheery Dog]

I'll say what I was going for with the two returnee twists I designed.

Terra Incognito from Survivor Civilization was ripped off wholesale from Arkham City's Death Row. In the latter game, I as Clock King got my ass handed to me because I didn't know what to do anymore. Death Row served as a wakeup call and if it had not been for the worst Riddler ever I think I would have improved. I wanted to recreate that experience in a game that I knew was going to cast a number of new/nearly-new players.

The School of Friendship from Survivor: Equestria was done in service to the game's overall thesis of "Friendship Is Magic". Here returning to the game meant encouraging people to vote you back in, which led to ultimately a stronger landing for Pinkie Pie. The goal in the game design wasn't "How can we return a player to the game?" but "How can we have a mechanic where friendship is important?"

You know that Riddler was kind of an asshat though.


(For those that aren't aware. I was that Riddler)

Mods still made a bad judgement call on assuming my vote was locked in on death row with Clock King's elimination! It might not have moved, but I wasn't happy with that tribal ending early.