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A hooded figure approaches your party. Standing roughly five and a half feet in height with a slim build, his well-shined boots make a very light sound as he jauntily walks along the path toward you. A feline tail twists and turns around the sheath of the rapier that hangs by his side.
He raises his hand in a greeting as you draw closer.
"Hail, travelers."
His golden eyes glimmer in the early dawn light.
"I hear rumors that you seek to uncover the mysteries of Yggdrasil. Unfortunately it seems as though one of your party had to abandon their quest. The pup of fire found themselves unprepared for the full length of the journey, or so I'm told. Such an adventure seems like it would be quite thrilling to me, and I've been hoping for some excitement in my life. Would you permit me to join your group and aid you in his place? I am a seasoned adventurer, and although I am unfamiliar with the details of your quest, I believe with my skills we can work together to swiftly defeat evil and reach the summit of Yggdrasil!"
In post 5534, Ircher wrote:Why thestatusquo? I think he has had some good takes this game. On the other hand, it's clear my reads are really bad this game.
Changed my mind. Catboi is the easier elimination and just very likely to be scum.
In post 5549, Bell wrote:I agree that a town kitty is very useful though. I like catboi and think he's a good town player.
It's just that the basics tell me at least one scum was off both wagons and that replace outs are more likely to be scum than not. It's not a complicated read. But I find it very likely to be accurate.
"Are you...familiar with the pup of fire at all? Because such reasoning should hardly hold weight to those with any passing knowledge of his tendencies. Further, why is the lack of vote from
「WHITE FIRE」
on a wagon a sign of villainy when they appear to have gone totally absent from the game? The argument seems tenuous at best."
In post 5552, Ircher wrote:Why the roleplay is very interesting, I don't think it helps us with regards to townreading you.
"I joined this adventure to have a good time, and I intend to do so regardless of what ludicrous accusations it may bring against me. A journey isn't worthwhile if you can't bring a bit of levity to it. Besides, I believe my good intentions should become perfectly clear in time regardless. If you wish for me to prove myself, tell me why you suspect me of being a Villain."
In post 5549, Bell wrote:I agree that a town kitty is very useful though. I like catboi and think he's a good town player.
It's just that the basics tell me at least one scum was off both wagons and that replace outs are more likely to be scum than not. It's not a complicated read. But I find it very likely to be accurate.
"Are you...familiar with the pup of fire at all? Because such reasoning should hardly hold weight to those with any passing knowledge of his tendencies. Further, why is the lack of vote from
「WHITE FIRE」
on a wagon a sign of villainy when they appear to have gone totally absent from the game? The argument seems tenuous at best."
So, you're attacking my argument.
"Yes? I know your conclusion is wrong, and the reasons you have used for it are rather poor. Would you mind answering my questions?"
In post 5571, Bell wrote:...Are you really going to start off this game with the "Debate me!" Meme?
"I think it's only fair for one being accused of Villainy to know the reasons they are being suspected, so that they might be able to defend themselves. Do you not agree?"
In post 5574, Ircher wrote:@catboi -- Give us some reads to work with. That's probably the most useful thing for you to do to show you are town.
"Your Adventurer's Journal is an incredibly hefty tome. Reading it from cover to cover might take me a fortnight. Surely you don't expect me to have gone over the entire thing in such a short period of time?"
"I intend to develop readings of who is a Hero and Villain, to be certain, but they cannot be brought out of thin air like a Conjurer might produce beasts. The time I was allotted was not enough to gain the necessary context. My hope was to gain a feel for the party by interacting in real time before looking back over the logs for context. I did not expect to be summarily accused upon my introduction."
In post 5577, Bell wrote:Not really, I find it very scummy when players try to beat someone at argument rather than evaluating why someone is pushing you.
In post 5583, Bell wrote:I was just making something ridiculous up to pressure the new person on entry. Well, except for the other reason, since rep outs, are, you already know, more likely to be scum.
I do this pretty frequently.
Okay, that makes sense. (For what it's worth I think Firebringer prefers scum, so I'm not sure him replacing out is scum indicative.)
But, you can't really make up a nonsense argument and then scumread the person for pointing out that it's nonsense.
I'm not, I'm scum reading him for how he decided to defend himself rather than evaluating my alignment himself.
No omgus. Just hey guys let me fit in. I can fit in.
I don't really add preference into that statistic. It's not clean, but I do remember hearing similar yeah.
"Do you not understand that my questioning is a way of evaluating you? I'm looking to understand the basis of your reasoning. Why are you evading my questions? I've asked you twice now to answer and you've not given a response."
"My mindset is not that of a Villain who lashes out wildly and attacks their accusers in turn. Why would you expect it to be? To me such a mindset would be survival oriented, seeking to discredit one's accusers. While I have had a tendency to react in such a fashion in the past as a Hero, I am trying to behave a bit more rationally, as such a mindset has served me very poorly in the past. There's no real panic on my mind, I simply seek to understand those who suspect me and determine whether they are genuine or not."
In post 5574, Ircher wrote:@catboi -- Give us some reads to work with. That's probably the most useful thing for you to do to show you are town.
"Your Adventurer's Journal is an incredibly hefty tome. Reading it from cover to cover might take me a fortnight. Surely you don't expect me to have gone over the entire thing in such a short period of time?"
"I intend to develop readings of who is a Hero and Villain, to be certain, but they cannot be brought out of thin air like a Conjurer might produce beasts. The time I was allotted was not enough to gain the necessary context. My hope was to gain a feel for the party by interacting in real time before looking back over the logs for context. I did not expect to be summarily accused upon my introduction."
You didn't? ?_?
"You'll have to clarify what this is asking about. If it's about the accusation, why would I expect it? I admit had been somewhat passively following from a distance, as there was a possibility I would be needed for the journey, but I was not under the impression that The Pale Flame was seen as a leading villain candidate."
We submitted a bodyguard ability on Artemis last night, and the mod failed to process this action. If things had gone exactly as locked in, we'd be dead flipped confirmed town right now, and Mara-timis would be screaming her cop result from the rooftops.
Instead, we have been told that the mod will explicitly confirm this error and that we have permission to make this post, and the game will proceed with that confirmation.
We submitted a bodyguard ability on Artemis last night, and the mod failed to process this action. If things had gone exactly as locked in, we'd be dead flipped confirmed town right now, and Mara-timis would be screaming her cop result from the rooftops.
Instead, we have been told that the mod will explicitly confirm this error and that we have permission to make this post, and the game will proceed with that confirmation.
It's the best we can do :/
I'm...okay with this.
Considering you claimed to have read nothing, what's this supposed to mean?
"With Morph being confirmed as town? I know them to be a mighty cat by reputation."
BINGLE! Confirmed town powwow, what's the best strategy here? I'm thinking all shots at flipped players get claimed, attacks on still-alive players don't for now?
"The
｢WHITE FIRE｣
used an action to attack Artemiana on night 1. I made no attacks on night 2 as I did not wish to shoot blindly."
In post 5591, catboi wrote:"Your Adventurer's Journal is an incredibly hefty tome. Reading it from cover to cover might take me a fortnight. Surely you don't expect me to have gone over the entire thing in such a short period of time?"
I don't expect you to read everything. Heck, I haven't read the entire thread despite replacing in Day 1. (I'm technically on page 55 or so, but I stopped because it just wasn't worth the time and effort).
That said, did you not read at all over the night? I wouldn't exactly blame you if you didn't (I most certainly didn't), but if you did, surely you could give some reads based off of what you read.
"My strategy is to gather impressions during real time interaction first and foremost, and then refine those impressions via the evidence in the Adventurer's Log."
In post 5649, Chara wrote:my current thought is NDMath was killed by townies, Arte was the scumkill, and Ircher's claim of killing Titus is the truth.
but i need confirmation from those townies on NDMath, and that leaves wherever the hypothetical mafia chip damage went. i do think it's possible Ircher is lying to vig-claim and Titus was killed by mafia chip damage, but that seems like a risky plan and i don't know how valid it is as an idea. but feedback is welcome.
"I've read tales of adventures from other lands with large parties, where both Heroes and Villains possess some form of vigilante shot. The villains would look to exercise their shots on 'safe' targets, that is, town players who were somewhere in the general PoE, so as to kill town but frame it as an acceptable casualty. The deaths would speak to a coordinated approach, I believe."
In post 5652, catboi wrote:"My strategy is to gather impressions during real time interaction first and foremost, and then refine those impressions via the evidence in the Adventurer's Log."
I encourage you to start with day 2 rather than day 1.
"Is there any particular reason you believe that day to be of greater importance?"
In post 5674, Bell wrote:Except for Catboi.
Tbh, I really do think they're scum for how they defended themselves. I know that's silly tho. I've just never played with a town's person that took that angle. It's pretty much come exclusively from scum. But the sample size is small.
"When I am accused, I try to pick at the reasoning of my accuser. Granted, that was a training hall, and my goal was to encourage further thinking, but the idea remains the same. If I am to understand the intentions of my accuser I must try to understand their thinking. In this instance I was being spuriously accused by a squire, but given the circumstances I decided his belief was owed to stubbornness and Villainy."
"Why do you continue to slip like an evasive rogue and not answer my questions which I asked? Such things really ought to be simple to do."
In post 5674, Bell wrote:Except for Catboi.
Tbh, I really do think they're scum for how they defended themselves. I know that's silly tho. I've just never played with a town's person that took that angle. It's pretty much come exclusively from scum. But the sample size is small.
"When I am accused, I try to pick at the reasoning of my accuser. Granted, that was a training hall, and my goal was to encourage further thinking, but the idea remains the same. If I am to understand the intentions of my accuser I must try to understand their thinking. In this instance I was being spuriously accused by a squire, but given the circumstances I decided his belief was owed to stubbornness and Villainy."
"Why do you continue to slip like an evasive rogue and not answer my questions which I asked? Such things really ought to be simple to do."
Hmm. What are your questions? It's not like I can't answer all of them. I'm town.
In post 5549, Bell wrote:I agree that a town kitty is very useful though. I like catboi and think he's a good town player.
It's just that the basics tell me at least one scum was off both wagons and that replace outs are more likely to be scum than not. It's not a complicated read. But I find it very likely to be accurate.
"Are you...familiar with the pup of fire at all? Because such reasoning should hardly hold weight to those with any passing knowledge of his tendencies. Further, why is the lack of vote from
「WHITE FIRE」
on a wagon a sign of villainy when they appear to have gone totally absent from the game? The argument seems tenuous at best."
"I suppose your admission that your attack on me was intended as a test of sorts answers the second, although it was not given in direct response so I did not consider it as such. So let me take its place with another question: Why do you believe my response is indicative of Villainy? Although your accusation used incredibly spurious reasoning, I know a great deal of travelers who worship at the altar of
｢WAGONOMICS｣
, although I am an unbeliever myself. So, to me it was not an inherently Villainous accusation, but one rooted in a faulty idea."
In post 5711, Bell wrote:I looked back. I've answered all your questions by stating that I was pressuring you largely for bullshit to see how you'd react. You have past meta of asking questions as a defense as town. But not in the same strain of "proving yourself" though there is something to be said about aking a back seat and just seeing if you actually can produce good reads.
"I still wanted to hear about your theory on the replacement, but as I already had my answer at the ready, I'll simply tell it to you: The pup of fire greatly prefers to play as the Villain, as a Hero he is prone to growing bored and losing interest. Him doing so on this quest is, while not Heroic in spirit, highly indicative of a soul aligned with the light."
"Anyway. Your demeanor in this quest is greatly different from how it was in your past life as a villain. That was some time ago, but I would be surprised to see such a dramatic change in your style. I think your soul is likely that of a Hero, but you are like that young squire, frustratingly tunnel-visioned. I think in your heart you wish for me to be a Villain and as such are interpreting everything I do to be with Villainous motive, without considering what a Hero would do. You ought to step back and spend time in contemplation. Likewise, I plan to retreat to my study shortly to begin my examination of the Adventure Logs."
In post 5843, morph the cat wrote:Feel free to revote once we have claims on the board. Our lives end today so we just want as much data and time as possible.
"I would request an audience, once I have completed my study of the adventure logs."
In post 5800, Bingle wrote:We still need to sort the top group but I think the bottom is in order. I’m thinking notty/dwlee late, Shea ircher flea ss early. Combination of mech skill and scumminess leading to the earlyness. Fairly confident in the order of the second group.
catboi
Ircher
14. not science
16. Dwlee99
18. Flea the Magician
19. Chara - wherever we put it in the list is where LLD answers why it’s outside of the 10. If the answer is “mechanics” claim happens after LLD.
20. Thestatusquo
22. Farkran
24. Something_Smart
2. Dunnstral - my strongest tokay based tr.
13. WhemeStar - mostly claimed.
10. Bell - Assuming still confident on Bell readability.
5. Lady Lambdadelta - claim largely irrelevant to townread.
8. Sigmund
23. Bingle Last
1. Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd) Not Massclaiming.
I'm mostly here although given mech knowledge I feel like S_S role is pretty much assumed in the open, at least partially, so him going absolutely first is no big loss. Would personally go order of...
S_S --> Fark --> Sheaslot --> Flea -->Dwlee -->Notsci -->Chara (mostly because of tie to the LLD stuffsies)
Then
Dunn -->Wheme--->Bell-->LLD-->Sigmund-->You.
Our claim is obviously not going to be majorly needed, we haven't chipped at anyone and we've already claimed who visited us and when, and who we targeted each night, but not with what.
Would prefer first round be "Damage done per night, and character name" and then we evaluate moving on to round two from there. Getting character names locked in GREATLY shrinks the fake claim pool down to stuff that the character could conceivably have. And yeah, it's not perfect and scum can probably still true claim, but it's still a perimeter fence we can put up.
"You appear to have omitted my name, as well as Sir Ircher's. I feel most unwelcome."
"Sir, I seek an explanation of why you are 'fine' with eliminating the faerie one while admitting to not having read faer's isolated Journal entries. What makes you consider this acceptable, then?"
[A dancing bug...a curious thing. Its mistake about how its abilities work seems genuine.
An unlikely plot for a Villain. I'll simply file it in my mind as a Hero.]
I was informed of White Fire's actions immediately as part of my confirmation. Even with recent sloppiness as a consideration, I find it highly unlikely that the mod would change protocol so drastically. This seems like a stalling tactic.
In post 5956, Bell wrote:Catboi you already dropped the role play.
Did you ever answer my question about the name thing?
I’ll repeat it. Was your role and role play on entry linked in regards to your name?
Chara named you Hans.
"I felt it necessary at the moment to confront in a more direct manner rather than inventing an artful reply for my own amusement.
My words on entry were simply a bit of pre-written text I concocted for fun, nothing to do with my role in the quest.
I missed the crystalline one naming me, it got lost in the immediate flurry as the thread re-opened."
"I'm sure it is fine. He is merely attending to the 19 other quests he has undertaken and that is what is preventing him from producing a prompt reply. There could be no other reason."
"The unfortunate thing is that I was actually reading the young lion as a Hero in my review of the Adventure Logs. This would seem to sharply contradict that assessment."
In post 5998, morph the cat wrote:The lion is guillotina though not Shea. I don't recall TSQ ever having a lion avatar unless I'm just completely forgetting his avatar.
I have received clarification from the moderator that my abilities do not actually deal Hit Point damage, but are instead the unfortunately named "Elemental damage". This applies a debuff to the target instead. I cannot claim responsibility for any damage that has gone missing, though.
In post 6072, Dunnstral wrote:Artemiana never claimed a debuff, but we can save it for claim order
I'm not sure she would have chosen to reveal it. Let me check day 2 for context. I'm on page 91 of my readthrough.
morph the cat wrote:
In post 6069, catboi wrote:I have received clarification from the moderator that my abilities do not actually deal Hit Point damage, but are instead the unfortunately named "Elemental damage". This applies a debuff to the target instead. I cannot claim responsibility for any damage that has gone missing, though.
What gets debuffed by your action? A stat?
Yes, a stat, I have two different attacks for different debuffs.
...Okay, I see now. White Fire's ability would have reduced Artemiana's SP by 1, and that is why he immediately disbelieved her claim. It all makes sense now. I'm assuming she chose not to reveal the SP loss because she didn't want scum to know she was still short of being able to use her ability.
...I have just received FURTHER CLARIFICATION from the moderator that my elemental damage DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING when first applied, it merely adds a stack of "Burn" or "Freeze" to the target, and the debuff is not applied until I activate those stacks via using my third ability. The role PM is worded INCREDIBLY confusingly and this was not clear to me in the slightest based on the way it was written. I assume Firebringer did not understand the nuances of the role either, which is why he softclaimed the way he did on day 2, and why Artemiana never claimed any sort of debuff.
I apologize for full claiming out of turn, but the ambiguity in my role has forced me to out to correct these misunderstandings.
I am actually UNBELIEVABLY frustrated right now with how this has all had to go down. I'll probably be taking a rain check for the rest of the night. Hopefully I'll be able to think about this game without getting pissed off tomorrow.
In post 6097, catboi wrote:...I have just received FURTHER CLARIFICATION from the moderator that my elemental damage DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING when first applied, it merely adds a stack of "Burn" or "Freeze" to the target, and the debuff is not applied until I activate those stacks via using my third ability. The role PM is worded INCREDIBLY confusingly and this was not clear to me in the slightest based on the way it was written. I assume Firebringer did not understand the nuances of the role either, which is why he softclaimed the way he did on day 2, and why Artemiana never claimed any sort of debuff.
I apologize for full claiming out of turn, but the ambiguity in my role has forced me to out to correct these misunderstandings.
I am actually UNBELIEVABLY frustrated right now with how this has all had to go down. I'll probably be taking a rain check for the rest of the night. Hopefully I'll be able to think about this game without getting pissed off tomorrow.
I have so many questions
Leave them here and I'll try to answer them when I'm less tilted
In post 6097, catboi wrote:...I have just received FURTHER CLARIFICATION from the moderator that my elemental damage DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING when first applied, it merely adds a stack of "Burn" or "Freeze" to the target, and the debuff is not applied until I activate those stacks via using my third ability. The role PM is worded INCREDIBLY confusingly and this was not clear to me in the slightest based on the way it was written. I assume Firebringer did not understand the nuances of the role either, which is why he softclaimed the way he did on day 2, and why Artemiana never claimed any sort of debuff.
I apologize for full claiming out of turn, but the ambiguity in my role has forced me to out to correct these misunderstandings.
I am actually UNBELIEVABLY frustrated right now with how this has all had to go down. I'll probably be taking a rain check for the rest of the night. Hopefully I'll be able to think about this game without getting pissed off tomorrow.
I have so many questions
Like "did you read your role pm?"
Because how do you miss that one of your abilities primes your elemental damage, or that you do elemental damage in the first place
I CAN'T SHOW YOU THAT WITHOUT GETTING MODKILLED
BUT IT SAYS I DO 1 ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, AND APPLY A STACK OF BURN/FREEZE
ELEMENTAL ISN'T MENTIONED IN THE RULES
WHY WOULD I ASSUME IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE REGULAR DAMAGE?
The big error was not well received by the scum team, I had wanted to play it out regardless, I thought we still had a shot, until it became very clear we did not have any chance (I say 'we', but of course I contributed essentially nothing with my limited time in the game). Then things got toxic and I decided I really didn't want to be party to that, even if I knew it was for show and extremely unlikely to actually influence the game. I just don't like that sort of thing in games.
Any of my own comments at the mod were, of course, done for theatrics, but I really didn't understand how my role worked and the clarification was buried in a message in the scum discord 11 days prior to my joining, which I was not informed of. Backreading a discord is not something that is really remotely practical. I'm guessing based on the wording of the role the "damage of elemental" was some remnant of an earlier mechanic that got stripped out, but its presence was exceptionally misleading. I feel as though the roles could have used an additional layer of proofreading from someone outside the review process, to see if they made sense.
I feel like there's still some worthwhile ideas here but the execution was obviously deeply flawed, even with my perspective of only having been in the game momentarily. The sheer quantity of errors was extremely frustrating and I don't really blame shea for leaving the game in protest. I think the balance was also flawed, but I don't really fault unwnd or bork for that particular issue, as it can be difficult to anticipate how a game with this many mechanics will play out.
Ultimately in a setup like this, town having killing power that outpaces the mafia becomes problematic because it allows them to cut through names in their PoE much quicker than they normally would. Even if Titus and NDMath dying N2 was seemingly an unfavorable result for town, it got them out of the way, where in a more normal game they might have hung around as distractions for a longer period of time. In theory, the mafia could have opted for spreading around chip damage instead, but that option really went out the window with the day 1 anya bus, and there's still a fair amount of problems with that - the scum's damage output is still not particularly high, and as town are always going to claim their shots, scum have to take "believable" shots if they want to claim them, which leaves them without a good way to get damages on the obvtown slots you'd traditionally use the factional kill on. I'm not sure there was a particularly good option for the team, either way.
Anyway that's just my musing on balance, like I said I don't fault the designer or reviewer for not anticipating how things would play out in practice.
Got to have fun messing around for a day or so, anyway. Would've liked to do the RP longer~
