Mini Normal 2218 | FIA WRC | Endgame

[Seanzie]

Hi all! May the odds be in your favor, unless you're mafia, in which case, a plague on your house.

The gods have dictated that I should VOTE: Taco to kick things off, and so I shall. Even though I love your username.

@Shrek, if you use the "reply" button instead of the quick reply box at the bottom of the page, there's a button above the text window labeled "Vote" that will automatically format your vote -- you just put the player's name in between the tags.

^this is a wolf. <- this is a non-RVS read.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: taco
It's time

Tacotime townlean.

[Seanzie]

Shrek and Taco teammate equity.

Change my mind.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: taco
It's time

Tacotime townlean.

I accept this pocket for now, as it is useful to me having 1 less loud voter

No, I am townleaing Dwlee99 there, not you.

[Seanzie]

how can i change your mind if i dont know what that means

It means that I think you and Taco have >rand chance of being mafia together, and your exchange was an attempt to make it look like you didn't just have a similar conversation in scumchat.

[Seanzie]

That's garbage nonsense.

Surprisingly, this did...





not change my mind.

[Seanzie]

your analysis thus far has 0 basis in logic. I have no choice but to conclude you pulled those posts out of your ass.

yeah thats a fair assumption to make tbh. it would be a good distancing tactic if it were the real thing so im fine with you thinking that until more info comes in. i know im town though so obviously i can confirm its wrong but i understand my word dont got much weight there. honestly im happy youre poking at stuff already tbh

Lol! The juxtposition of these two posts:P

Taco, is Shrek also basing nothing in logic here? Shrek seems to think my assumption is fair, perhaps wrong, but fair. You seem to have the exact opposite opinion.

[Seanzie]

I don't genuinely believe that Seanzie actually made that kind of leap of logic in accusing Shrek and I of fake interactions.

In fact, my errors in how I perceived them should have tipped them off easily that this was a genuine interaction. It's a complete nonsense conclusion that is meant to discredit 2 people at once.

It is a leap, sure, but it isn't a complete nonsense conclusion, and the point is to see how people react. So far, you are reacting very defensively.

[Seanzie]

your analysis thus far has 0 basis in logic. I have no choice but to conclude you pulled those posts out of your ass.

yeah thats a fair assumption to make tbh. it would be a good distancing tactic if it were the real thing so im fine with you thinking that until more info comes in. i know im town though so obviously i can confirm its wrong but i understand my word dont got much weight there. honestly im happy youre poking at stuff already tbh

Lol! The juxtposition of these two posts:P

Taco, is Shrek also basing nothing in logic here? Shrek seems to think my assumption is fair, perhaps wrong, but fair. You seem to have the exact opposite opinion.

yeah thats a fair assumption to make tbh. it would be a good distancing tactic if it were the real thing so im fine with you thinking that until more info comes in. i know im town though so obviously i can confirm its wrong but i understand my word dont got much weight there. honestly im happy youre poking at stuff already tbh

weird reaction to someone who just called you scum, wouldn't you say?

you sure have selective reading, don't you?

Uhh, I don't do the predit thing, so no. I didn't see that post before I made mine.

You're not really addressing my question there though.

[Seanzie]

I don't genuinely believe that Seanzie actually made that kind of leap of logic in accusing Shrek and I of fake interactions.

In fact, my errors in how I perceived them should have tipped them off easily that this was a genuine interaction. It's a complete nonsense conclusion that is meant to discredit 2 people at once.

It is a leap, sure, but it isn't a complete nonsense conclusion, and the point is to see how people react. So far, you are reacting very defensively.

Oh yeah?
Please tell me more

If you're scum here, I hope you know that picking a fight with me was a huge mistake and will be your undoing.

What else is there to tell? Do you disagree with my assessment that you're being defensive?

[Seanzie]

Do you disagree with my assessment that you're full of shit?

Yes, I do. Throwing insults like this and empty threats around are further signs of defensiveness though.

[Seanzie]

Lmao just realized I'm not on my main and I can't just tell you to go search my meta and see for themselves what you think of how I'm playing so far.

Regardless, why point out I'm defensive? What's your intent with that?

I've already made my intention very clear. I'm seeing how you react.

So far you look like a wolf who is pissed off that you got called out early. It is possible I'm misreading the situation, and townies can get defensive too, but the way you're lashing out about it suggests that you aren't dispirited town, but instead are frustrated wolf.

I could be wrong, so feel free to town it up, but for now, you're going at the bottom of my list.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, honest question that's important: what's the expected townie response to you when someone makes something up against them? What do you expect a townie to do in that situation.

First, I didn't make anything up. I stated a read.

Second, townies can react in a whole lot of ways. There is no one reaction I expect, and I don't know what you expect me to say here, other than that early reactions can be very telling in either direction.

[Seanzie]

Lmao just realized I'm not on my main and I can't just tell you to go search my meta and see for themselves what you think of how I'm playing so far.

Regardless, why point out I'm defensive? What's your intent with that?

I've already made my intention very clear. I'm seeing how you react.

So far you look like a wolf who is pissed off that you got called out early. It is possible I'm misreading the situation, and townies can get defensive too, but the way you're lashing out about it suggests that you aren't dispirited town, but instead are frustrated wolf.

I could be wrong, so feel free to town it up, but for now, you're going at the bottom of my list.

vote me then

I'll vote whom I please when I please, thank you very much.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: seanzie

Do you have anything other than OMGUS to back this up with?

[Seanzie]

Oh, are you DkKoba?

[Seanzie]

Oh, are you DkKoba?

Yup. And now you know you fucked with the wrong player

I think you severely overestimate my opinion of your play, but knowing you are you is helpful.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: seanzie

Do you have anything other than OMGUS to back this up with?

I was evaluating if your push on me was in good faith or if it was made with intent to simply discredit me + be as uncharitable as possible towards me.

To boil it down to an OMGUS is disingenuous based on the lead up to the vote.

If it isn't OMGUS, it is just because you don't understand common tactics. Overstating reads and pushes in the early game is a great way to get the game going. If you are town, I'd think you'd appreciate a move out of RVS, but I'm not sure you are town.

[Seanzie]

Hello everyone!

ahhh hopefully things get better for you soon titus

anyways this is my first game of mafia on this site despite me being here for like five years so go easy on me plox. thank you

aHave you played mafia before?

So Shrek is an alt that's purposefully doing a gimmick. Cool.

T3 feels performative in their initial postings and replies, don't vibe with their tone so far.

Do you think this is an unreasonable conclusion to come to based on the first 2 posts?

If you are concluding that this is reasonable, but my push on you was not... well... idk what to say.

[Seanzie]

Hello everyone!

ahhh hopefully things get better for you soon titus

anyways this is my first game of mafia on this site despite me being here for like five years so go easy on me plox. thank you

aHave you played mafia before?

So Shrek is an alt that's purposefully doing a gimmick. Cool.

T3 feels performative in their initial postings and replies, don't vibe with their tone so far.

Do you think this is an unreasonable conclusion to come to based on the first 2 posts?

If you are concluding that this is reasonable, but my push on you was not... well... idk what to say.

Your push and my gutread on entrance are not the same. Stop comparing it.

Why? Because my push actually had logic (albeit loose page 1 logic) behind it? I noticed a possible teammate interaction. I mentioned it in thread. You got super defensive about it, so I pushed more, and eventually you OMGUS'd me at the end of it. This is typical wolf behavior.

The only thing that gives me pause on my read is the fact that I know you can be very rude and arrogant as town, so some parts of your reaction can be explained by that. I will have to see how you play moving forward, but your T3 "gut read" (Is it a gut read? Calling T3 performative doesn't feel like a gut read, but an analysis of his posts) is bad, so 0 points from me there.

[Seanzie]

Hi all! May the odds be in your favor, unless you're mafia, in which case, a plague on your house.

The gods have dictated that I should VOTE: Taco to kick things off, and so I shall. Even though I love your username.

@Shrek, if you use the "reply" button instead of the quick reply box at the bottom of the page, there's a button above the text window labeled "Vote" that will automatically format your vote -- you just put the player's name in between the tags.

^this is a wolf. <- this is a non-RVS read.

Whaaaaat?? Me??

I'm a vegetarian!

Care to add anything meaningful to the thread?

[Seanzie]

Hello everyone!

ahhh hopefully things get better for you soon titus

anyways this is my first game of mafia on this site despite me being here for like five years so go easy on me plox. thank you

aHave you played mafia before?

So Shrek is an alt that's purposefully doing a gimmick. Cool.

T3 feels performative in their initial postings and replies, don't vibe with their tone so far.

Do you think this is an unreasonable conclusion to come to based on the first 2 posts?

If you are concluding that this is reasonable, but my push on you was not... well... idk what to say.

Your push and my gutread on entrance are not the same. Stop comparing it.

Why? Because my push actually had logic (albeit loose page 1 logic) behind it? I noticed a possible teammate interaction. I mentioned it in thread. You got super defensive about it, so I pushed more, and eventually you OMGUS'd me at the end of it. This is typical wolf behavior.

The only thing that gives me pause on my read is the fact that I know you can be very rude and arrogant as town, so some parts of your reaction can be explained by that. I will have to see how you play moving forward, but your T3 "gut read" (Is it a gut read? Calling T3 performative doesn't feel like a gut read, but an analysis of his posts) is bad, so 0 points from me there.

i have never found defensiveness to be indicative of scum. not in isolation

Nothing is indicative of anything in isolation. Taco's reaction to me mentioning teammate equity was way overblown though, they immediately went towards trying to discredit my thoughts by saying it had "0 logic" rather than trying to see if I am town (they purport they were doing that, but I don't buy it). When I brought up that they were reacting defensively, they doubled down towards refusing to acknowledge what I was saying, and have time and time again tried to dismiss the conversation, until eventually they OMGUSed.

I admit that maybe I am wrong, and I'm not looking for a quickhammer here, but Taco is sus af, and I'll be watching them carefully as we move forward.

[Seanzie]

Link me a single game where you catch a "fake interaction" or fabricate an interaction like that yourself - shouldn't be hard if it was a legitimate read because clearly it would have to be based on something you saw before because its so wild and weird that it has to exactly involve those 2 scenarios, unless you completely made it up to doubly discred both of us.

And its not "typical wolf behavior." Now you're just straight attributing townleaning things as scummy - I'm not budging off your slot till either of us are dead.

Several people here have played with me here and know what I'm saying is true so indeed, reality will favor me in the end.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 30#p807580

Two of my friends from down under fake figuring out that each other are Aussie in thread, even though they were wolves, and literally had a conversation about this in wolfchat beforehand.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie: I don't know how to expect a townie to react here

Also seanzie: i am so sure that taco is reacting like scum here

Nope, that isn't what I said at all. Townies can react in all sorts of ways, so I cannot enumerate all towny reactions for you. asking "how would a towny react in this situation?" is not a productive question since it is unanswerable.

[Seanzie]

Looks like that game was WELL underway when the fake convo started.

I can cede that you can think of such a conclusion - but it's still wrong as hell.

A common tactic in this game is to overstate reads at the beginning of the game to get things started. I agree that my initial push on you had very little behind it. I wasn't making a lock!scum case, but trying to see how you and the thread react.

If you are town, who do you think reacted most opportunistically based on our spat?

[Seanzie]

Petition to turboelim Shrek

Petition denied. Turbo eliming only benefits scum. Even if Shrek is a hit, we wasted precious D1 time to form reads.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie: I don't know how to expect a townie to react here

Also seanzie: i am so sure that taco is reacting like scum here

Nope, that isn't what I said at all. Townies can react in all sorts of ways, so I cannot enumerate all towny reactions for you. asking "how would a towny react in this situation?" is not a productive question since it is unanswerable.

Well generally, I expect a townie to react with defiance when accused of something that is implying they are scum. A scum would be much nicer because they know the accusation is true and thus seek to justify and placate.

This should be able to explain my most recent movements

There is a subset of people who react like that, but I think out of experienced player that subset is small since defiance does little good to threadhealth and doesn't really contribute to collective worldbuilding. You are someone I can see as reacting defiantly though, which is why I am rethinking my stance on you, but I am only vaguely familiar with you as a player, so I'm taking my limited meta with a grain of salt.

Yes, I see what you're saying, and I agree pressure should be applied there. As another potential avenue of exploration, what do you think about ssbm?

[Seanzie]

Nothing is indicative of anything in isolation. Taco's reaction to me mentioning teammate equity was way overblown though, they immediately went towards trying to discredit my thoughts by saying it had "0 logic" rather than trying to see if I am town (they purport they were doing that, but I don't buy it).

it seems very believable to me that they saw the read as having 0 logic.

i for one, don't see why scum would go out of their way to fake that interaction especially since it's an interaction scum could genuinely have.

and, one way someone might try to sort someone, is by calling out what they see as scummy. just because they're tone was aggressive doesn't mean they're not trying to sort you.

When I brought up that they were reacting defensively, they doubled down towards refusing to acknowledge what I was saying, and have time and time again tried to dismiss the conversation, until eventually they OMGUSed.

what exactly were they refusing to acknowledge?

You don't see the scum benefit of faking an interaction to make them not look teamed? When I'm scum, if one of my scummates asks me certain types of questions, I refuse to answer in scumchat and make them ask me in the thread specifically to build those sorts of interactions into the thread.

That my push, while too early to be solid, had logical foundations. They didn't take the time to step back and evaluate it critically.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie: I don't know how to expect a townie to react here

Also seanzie: i am so sure that taco is reacting like scum here

Nope, that isn't what I said at all. Townies can react in all sorts of ways, so I cannot enumerate all towny reactions for you. asking "how would a towny react in this situation?" is not a productive question since it is unanswerable.

Well generally, I expect a townie to react with defiance when accused of something that is implying they are scum. A scum would be much nicer because they know the accusation is true and thus seek to justify and placate.

This should be able to explain my most recent movements

There is a subset of people who react like that, but I think out of experienced player that subset is small since defiance does little good to threadhealth and doesn't really contribute to collective worldbuilding.

wrong

What is wrong? If it is in regards to the size of that subset, that might be a cultural difference, because among the people I commonly play with, Taco's behavior is uncommon except for among new people or when someone become particularly frustrated (and it was too early for me to think that Taco was truly frustrated at the beginning of our exchange). If it is in regards to the analysis of the outcome of that sort of reaction, and why it is anti-town, idk what to tell you other than cooperation wins more games than defiance IMO.

[Seanzie]

tris youre supposed to help me out hereeee

dont let me die d1 in my first mafia game ever

Instead of begging for your life, can you give thoughts on anyone? If you're town, prove it by giving us depth.

[Seanzie]

Nothing is indicative of anything in isolation. Taco's reaction to me mentioning teammate equity was way overblown though, they immediately went towards trying to discredit my thoughts by saying it had "0 logic" rather than trying to see if I am town (they purport they were doing that, but I don't buy it).

it seems very believable to me that they saw the read as having 0 logic.

i for one, don't see why scum would go out of their way to fake that interaction especially since it's an interaction scum could genuinely have.

and, one way someone might try to sort someone, is by calling out what they see as scummy. just because they're tone was aggressive doesn't mean they're not trying to sort you.

When I brought up that they were reacting defensively, they doubled down towards refusing to acknowledge what I was saying, and have time and time again tried to dismiss the conversation, until eventually they OMGUSed.

what exactly were they refusing to acknowledge?

You don't see the scum benefit of faking an interaction to make them not look teamed? When I'm scum, if one of my scummates asks me certain types of questions, I refuse to answer in scumchat and make them ask me in the thread specifically to build those sorts of interactions into the thread.

That my push, while too early to be solid, had logical foundations. They didn't take the time to step back and evaluate it critically.

but like, it's not fake in that case. how is that distinguishable town asking questions. sure, scum might want to have such interactions in here rather than in their thread, but it's not like they wouldn't have asked those sorts of questions if they were town.

I'm not saying that I had a lock!scum case on Taco and Shrek when I made that post, or even a strong case. I've explained this numerous times. Have you read my posts? If you truly don't have enough information based on my previous posts to tell what I was doing, please ask again, but at this point, I'd be repeating myself for I think the third time.

[Seanzie]

town leaning:

seanzie: my personal belief is that seanzie is town for moving the game out of the early phase with all of the fluff and into the actual discussion. i think that it would benefit scum to waste time, sit back, and let other people incriminate themselves which is not something that seanzie has really done. a key focal point of mafia is examining players and going 'how does what they're doing benefit the mafia in any way, shape, or form?' the answer is that seanzie's own spat is not a good look in case he does happen to be mafia and he seems experienced enough to know not to do that if he does end up becoming scum. at least that's what i've gathered from him and his questioning, no matter how nitpicky it is.

misguided town:
T3: yeah, i'm not really sure what to make of him here. part of me thinks that he wouldn't really draw this much attention to himself if he was mafia? i dunno i think that the interaction between him and taco is t/t and we're wasting our time by arguing mostly about semantics instead of the real stuff.
taco: i think him acting defiant was kind of a bad look for him so early on in the game, but scum would probably not go THAT far to the point of attacking seanzie like that for simply throwing out a light read. like why would he start to tunnel there instead of just leaving it at a convenient point instead of going on with all the effort for several pages. that doesnt seem like mafia to me

unsure:

tris: not enough information to actually determine it,

but i want to keep her

because dark rey and avocado are best buds and she knows it.

all of the people who have under 5 posts: yeah i have nothing from these people and for all we know all three scum could be lurking within there

scum leaning:
dwlee: i see little benefit to giving little reasoning beyond the vote for a joking response to something. obviously i know why they suspect me (because i'm acting nonchalant about being accused), but like. come on. its an hour in, why would i start a fight as mafia OR town.

i didnt wanna dogpile on seanzie

for making one wrong read and im actually grateful to him for deciding to make that early play. like he said it starts getting the game moving and i know im town so im not reading too much into it. regardless i think that dwlee should explain some of his reasoning behind his reads on people and his motives for voting me


beyond that i dont really have any reads since these people have been really the only ones with solid contributions or things to be pointed out thus far

When were you worried about a dogpile on me?

Can you elaborate on your read of T3?

Why did you mention Tris here if you had nothing to say?

What does this mean? You want to keep her ... what? where? how? I feel like there is part of this sentence missing.

[Seanzie]

like at the start when taco was saying that you were full of shit and stuff like that. i didnt want this game to be too bitter and harsh and he was already laying into you-- if you are town, then us fighting really does nothing and only

puts the attention on us

. i was just trying to defuse the situation cause i dont think fighting and going around in circles gets the town anywhere. i also dont know why id lay into you for placing a mild sus based on a single interaction. idk ive been REALLY cringe in past games when i come off as overly defensive so maybe i'm overcorrecting in this one

uhhh i think that t3 and taco going at each other (with t3's own 'stilted' start) is just something based off of a dumb snap read that doesn't really indicate t3 of any alignment one way or the others. t3's handling of the situation in picking that fight with taco makes me think that he and taco are both town though

tris and i played two lsgs before and they were both funny so i wanna keep playing with her here since she's the only person i know. if i didnt know her i would probably leave her off the list

Your overly-agreeable post towards me happened well before Taco and I escalated beyond Taco saying my analysis is garbage. I have a hard time thinking that you'd interpret that exchange as a dogpile on me. You suggesting that you wanting to avoid a dogpile on me as your reason for being so agreeable seems disingenuous.

Why are you worried about attention?

Does anyone know the current vote count?

[Seanzie]

i'm worried about attention because if we're all townies it means that we could be dropped one by one by one for taking up the vocal majority while scum could just be lurking or inactive or just one of the people who hasn't talked right now.

if you want i can actually claim my role just so we dont like. mislynch right in the beginning of the game.

i dont really care if i'm a nightkill since my role is not very useful and it would alleviate suspicion from me so i'm more than happy to be open right now.

So, this is a very obvious soft. What is your thought process behind this soft?

[Seanzie]

my thought process behind this soft is that my role is not a power role and it will not hurt town that much if i get nightkilled for saying it. and claiming in the day and having more avenues looked at would be more beneficial than just focusing on me for the rest of it.

Do you know what the vote count is?

[Seanzie]

Petition to turboelim Shrek

No I think not

Care to share your thoughts on Shrek?

[Seanzie]

Yeah I like shrek tonally. He feels open. Up to 141 I felt this already.

He has a strange looking wall after that though, there were some points in there that feel wrong to me.

Shrek could you go over what your experience with Mafia is? I initially had the impression you're a mashie but then you referenced a previous game. Were you referencing a social game?

Can you point out the post in particular, and elaborate on what felt wrong?

[Seanzie]

Okay I'm kind of trolling: so

17 is LAMIST

and then 119 is a bad reaction to something which doesn't comment on 100 posts that had happened between his first and second posts.

Please explain this.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Shrek

[Seanzie]

what are your current thoughts about me that made you wanna vote that way?

I've been pretty clear with my thoughts. If you review my ISO and still question why I've voted you, please ask again.

[Seanzie]

Okay I'm kind of trolling: so

17 is LAMIST

and then 119 is a bad reaction to something which doesn't comment on 100 posts that had happened between his first and second posts.

Please explain this.

It means "Look at me I'm so town"

I know what LAMIST is, what about that post do you interpret as LAMIST?

[Seanzie]

Taco, did you ever answer me about Ssbm? If not, what do you think of that slot?

Same question backwards to Ssbm, can you share your thoughts on Taco?

[Seanzie]

Lucifer you gotta use your vote.

Pavowski - of Taco, Seanzie, T3, Shrek - do any of their early pushes stand out for a specific reason as scummy?

No, they stand out as blustery and doing a lot of work to make their first impressions mean something. I mean:

Shrek and Salsa are town.

Just to grab an example from recently in the thread, I see this. How can you make a statement like this with any degree of certainty at this stage in the game? The game is less than 24 hours old, day 1 is less than 10% done. Confidence, at this point, feels like bluster.

Whether that's blustery town trying to drive investigations or blustery scum trying to *steer* investigations, I couldn't hazard a guess yet.

I should also point out I'm not saying those interactions don't mean anything. But I have no idea what they mean so far.

This is very hedgy. I know you said you couldn't hazard a guess yet, but I firmly believe you could, and should.

Gun to head, which of those people are blustery town and which are blustery scum? If you can give reasons why you think one way or the other, great, but I'll be content for now with just "town" or "scum" on each slot.

[Seanzie]

Zyla, your two wallposts are devoid of actual takes. Can you please give thoughts on any people/interactions that have happened thus far?

[Seanzie]

I've only done my first readthrough, and there are enough people here that it's gonna be hard for me to get any reads just off of that, I'm looking through ISOs now

I'm not expecting like full fleshed out godreads on everyone. Are there posts you liked? Posts you didn't like? Do you have any gut reads on people? I have a hard time imagining that you did a readthrough and didn't come out with any critical thoughts on anyone or anything.

[Seanzie]

Dwlee99 - leaning scum on

Tris we are town block now. Okay?

What makes Tris or you towny?

My reasoning is all there Shrek.

... Just to clarify, is this a joke?

Bad ISO

At the time that you posted this, Pav had two posts, and the first few posts in a game tend to be joking, so how is this enough to be a bad ISO?



Pav - slight town-lean, no particular posts stood out


Salsabil is mostly null with a slight town-lean, but then there's this post.

Stop defending your shit logic with shutdowns and instead ellaborate on it or acknowledge its flawed.
And i asked you what the definition of omgus is. Answer it.

I'll do what I want to do, you don't owe me.

Can't believe you're using LAMIST card rn!! So much for playing several games....

I'm not sure what about this particularly fits LAMIST, could you elaborate?

I really didn't like your first few posts, but your thoughts on Dwlee here look good. I just looked through their ISO, and it doesn't make me feel good about them at all. They're making weak pushes on easy-to-push slots while trying to force themselves into a towncore, which they haven't earned yet.

I'mma townlean you based on this post, and also rescind my early game townlean on Dwlee, and even switch it to a light scumread on Dwlee.

[Seanzie]

Taco, Sasil your fight is drowning out my attempts to ease back in. Can you talk about your reads on other slots?

It's my bedtime, so can't hear from me for a long time of period eventually.

Townlean:

Seanzie

Nulltown:

Dwlee99

Nullscum:

tris

Scumlean:

Taco Hemingway

or

Shrek

Rests are null for not enough content or I can't formulate any read on them yet.

When you wake up (or before you go to bed if you want), please elaborate on your reads of me and Dwlee.

[Seanzie]

Taco, Sasil your fight is drowning out my attempts to ease back in. Can you talk about your reads on other slots?

It's my bedtime, so can't hear from me for a long time of period eventually.

Townlean:

Seanzie

Nulltown:

Dwlee99

Nullscum:

tris

Scumlean:

Taco Hemingway

or

Shrek

Rests are null for not enough content or I can't formulate any read on them yet.

When you wake up (or before you go to bed if you want), please elaborate on your reads of me and Dwlee.

Check my ISO, it's there.

I did look at your ISO, and there isn't much there about me or Dwlee.

For me, the only post where you take a stance about me is here:

Lmao just realized I'm not on my main and I can't just tell you to go search my meta and see for themselves what you think of how I'm playing so far.

Regardless, why point out I'm defensive? What's your intent with that?

I've already made my intention very clear. I'm seeing how you react.

So far you look like a wolf who is pissed off that you got called out early. It is possible I'm misreading the situation, and townies can get defensive too, but the way you're lashing out about it suggests that you aren't dispirited town, but instead are frustrated wolf.

I could be wrong, so feel free to town it up, but for now, you're going at the bottom of my list.

Town post.

A naked "town post". Is this the only thing you're townreading me for, or is there more? Also, what exactly makes this such a townpost in your mind, enough to put me as your top townread?

For Dwlee:

That list for me right now includes:
Taco
Sean
T3
Shrek probably

Why aren't I here

Dwlee99

maybe town here because I don’t think scum!them need to ask this question, seems like they wants to sort

Pavowski

here.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that scum!them wouldn't ask this. Is this meta based, or based off how wolves play? Also, there is a TON of other stuff in Dwlee's ISO. Do you have any more thoughts about anything else regarding them?

Saying "check my ISO" was not satisfactory here. You haven't given much content on these slots, so I'd like to see what you're thinking here.

[Seanzie]

yes my role is a weak power role that's hard to actually confirm and there's a probability that it ends up worthless beyond like. confirming one or two people at most

Uhh, confirming even one person is not worthless.

[Seanzie]

Taco, Sasil your fight is drowning out my attempts to ease back in. Can you talk about your reads on other slots?

It's my bedtime, so can't hear from me for a long time of period eventually.

Townlean:

Seanzie

Nulltown:

Dwlee99

Nullscum:

tris

Scumlean:

Taco Hemingway

or

Shrek

Rests are null for not enough content or I can't formulate any read on them yet.

When you wake up (or before you go to bed if you want), please elaborate on your reads of me and Dwlee.

Check my ISO, it's there.

I did look at your ISO, and there isn't much there about me or Dwlee.

For me, the only post where you take a stance about me is here:

Lmao just realized I'm not on my main and I can't just tell you to go search my meta and see for themselves what you think of how I'm playing so far.

Regardless, why point out I'm defensive? What's your intent with that?

I've already made my intention very clear. I'm seeing how you react.

So far you look like a wolf who is pissed off that you got called out early. It is possible I'm misreading the situation, and townies can get defensive too, but the way you're lashing out about it suggests that you aren't dispirited town, but instead are frustrated wolf.

I could be wrong, so feel free to town it up, but for now, you're going at the bottom of my list.

Town post.

A naked "town post". Is this the only thing you're townreading me for, or is there more? Also, what exactly makes this such a townpost in your mind, enough to put me as your top townread?

For Dwlee:

That list for me right now includes:
Taco
Sean
T3
Shrek probably

Why aren't I here

Dwlee99

maybe town here because I don’t think scum!them need to ask this question, seems like they wants to sort

Pavowski

here.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that scum!them wouldn't ask this. Is this meta based, or based off how wolves play? Also, there is a TON of other stuff in Dwlee's ISO. Do you have any more thoughts about anything else regarding them?

Saying "check my ISO" was not satisfactory here. You haven't given much content on these slots, so I'd like to see what you're thinking here.

Not up for any hard work atm.... will give reasons later if feel to.

I would expect if you were town here, you'd at least be able to explain via one or two sentences the jist of your reason for townreading me and leaning town on Dwlee.

UNVOTE: Shrek

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

[Seanzie]

but also dwlee is town too come back and vote kyouko for summit

Why Dwlee town?

[Seanzie]

yes my role is a weak power role that's hard to actually confirm and there's a probability that it ends up worthless beyond like. confirming one or two people at most

Uhh, confirming even one person is not worthless.

so youll let me live?

If you continue to not do anything productive with your time unless pressured to, then eventually I may push the thread to chop you.

[Seanzie]

we've still got nine days bruh

We have until hammer, which may be significantly sooner than 9 days. Besides, why wait? Clearly the game has started and there is more then enough content to sort through. Delaying giving reads and collective worldbuilding only benefits scum.

[Seanzie]

rushing elims helps scum.

I agree with you. I'm not suggesting we rush the elim, I'm just saying that it is unclear if we will have a 9 day D1, and there is no reason not to start playing now.

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE: taco
Like honestly me not explaining is part of my playstyle.

I hope you eventually change playstyles.

[Seanzie]

Omg, 16 pages already?! Its only been a day! I cant read all of that so uhh who should i vote >~<

ssbm kyouko

Why should i vote them? What did they do wrong? .>.

well you can ISO them yourself and tell me what you think

wat

Im asking you to read them yourself and make your own conclusions

I cant go though the entire game to just read their posts! Thats too difficult >->

Do you know what an ISO is?

Also, I see you just joined this site. What experience do you have with mafia prior to this?

[Seanzie]

Omg, 16 pages already?! Its only been a day! I cant read all of that so uhh who should i vote >~<

ssbm kyouko

Why should i vote them? What did they do wrong? .>.

well you can ISO them yourself and tell me what you think

wat

Im asking you to read them yourself and make your own conclusions

I cant go though the entire game to just read their posts! Thats too difficult >->

Do you know what an ISO is?

Also, I see you just joined this site. What experience do you have with mafia prior to this?

uhhhh no and i have a little experience playing some one night mafia game. I forgot what its called tho

ISO stands for In Search Of, but I actually like to think of it as ISOlation. It is when you only look at one person's posts (so you look at them in ISOlation). If you look at someone's post, at the top left right next to the post # you should see (ISO). This is a link. If you click on it, it will open up a thing where you can see only that person's posts.

So Taco asking you to ISO Ssbm a little bit ago means they were asking you to read through their ISO and give thoughts. Most people's ISOs are much easier to read than the whole game, for obvious reasons.

[Seanzie]

Omg, 16 pages already?! Its only been a day! I cant read all of that so uhh who should i vote >~<

ssbm kyouko

Why should i vote them? What did they do wrong? .>.

well you can ISO them yourself and tell me what you think

wat

Im asking you to read them yourself and make your own conclusions

I cant go though the entire game to just read their posts! Thats too difficult >->

Do you know what an ISO is?

Also, I see you just joined this site. What experience do you have with mafia prior to this?

uhhhh no and i have a little experience playing some one night mafia game. I forgot what its called tho

Is this your first forum mafia game then?

[Seanzie]

ISO stands for In Search Of, but I actually like to think of it as ISOlation. It is when you only look at one person's posts (so you look at them in ISOlation). If you look at someone's post, at the top left right next to the post # you should see (ISO). This is a link. If you click on it, it will open up a thing where you can see only that person's posts.

So Taco asking you to ISO Ssbm a little bit ago means they were asking you to read through their ISO and give thoughts. Most people's ISOs are much easier to read than the whole game, for obvious reasons.

Wait

What

? I thought it was just ISOlation

It is possible I am wrong and it just means ISOlation. ISO can mean "in search of" in some contexts, in this one I'm not sure.

[Seanzie]

it's pretty blatant its a pooky alt based on playstyle and post style

Idk who Pooky is, but some of their posts don't look at all like someone who is doing this for the first time. Even the first post they made strongly suggests they've played forum mafia before.

[Seanzie]

Do a bunch of the new players know each other?

I'm assuming you count me as "new", even though I am only "new to this forum".

The only person I know here from outside of this forum is DkKoba/Taco, and that is from an offsite game that just ended literally a few minutes ago.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Lucifier

I'm on a mission from God and I have a daycop guilty.

Lucifer probably flips scum here I agree

Haven't they only made two posts?

[Seanzie]

6

[Seanzie]

9

Shrek, can you tell me your thoughts on Taco?

[Seanzie]

Spoiler: non-relevant parts of the post I'm quoting

Ah fuck it i was waiting on salsa to actually pull themselves deeper into the moonlogic they have developed on me because it doesnt feel genuine at all coming from them like they pulled out the meta of another player to say im scum when i literally was in that game as scum as well as played against them as scum too.
If I'm scum here I'm not trying to spew everyone who attakcs me as town. As town idgaf bc i dont have an agenda.
Shrek stating they were from more survivor oriented games makes sense for their reaction being more pacifying as i understand that survivor and such relies on making friends not enemies.

@Pavowski what do you think of Salsa thus far?
VOTE: Salsa

Seems to be tunneling on you. Feels early for that to me, but then apparently you two have history playing against (or with, or whatever) one another so maybe they spotted something that trips their radar?

I.am.tunneling.them.... I'll only believe them when I see the green flip.

Was going to finish catching up before commenting on this. Think I'm looking at projecting scum rn, but zyla's catchup compels me

You meant me by

projecting scum

ig?

But I don't understand the connection between me and

Zyla

here.

Yes, I mean you. I haven't noticed a connection between you and Zyla

What did you mean by this then:

Think I'm looking at projecting scum rn, but zyla's catchup compels me

??

In 436, you voted her but quoting my posts??

See 437 - I had intended to reply to you during a catchup post but when I saw Zyla's 301/302 I felt compelled to vote right away. I was up late last night and forgot to explain what I meant by projecting. It's in my post responding to Pavowski's read list.

Faria I think tunnels like this (the bolded) as scum here and is projecting her own scumplay into her scumread on Taco. Using the aggressive style as safe haven to deflect any scumreads. Think "how could I possibly be scum, it would be so bad for scum to tunnel and draw this much attention to themselves"

Why don't you vote me then?

Zyla claimed scum already, you're a read

What ckaim???

301 and 302

Can you explain your read on Zyla a bit more? So far from what I can tell, you naked voted her after quoting those two posts, and now you're just saying Zyla claimed scum, and quoting those two posts without further explanation. I agree those posts were a rocky way to enter the game, but I'm not seeing enough from you in regards to Zyla to tell if your push is genuine or not.

[Seanzie]

9

Shrek, can you tell me your thoughts on Taco?

uhhh my thoughts are that i think he's a

misguided

townie and that

part of his playstyle is just to pick fights

with people.

we dont have any actual real information on him until the results of the vote come in,

so im gonna be looking back through his iso to see if his posts can be cast in a different light in a bit. right now he's one of my townleans alongside faria and possibly t3, though its hard to say. most of the people who could be town (galaxis and lucifer for example) havent actually contributed much so its hard to compare things

What makes them misguided?

If picking fights is part of their playstyle, wouldn't they do it as scum as well?

They've made quite a few posts. That is all information. While flips are an important piece of information, they aren't the only information, and honestly I'd say flips aren't even the most important part of the game. As such, I strongly suggest you strive to read people based on dayplay.

[Seanzie]

So I'm not going to lie... I'm finding most people here scummy, and having a hard time forming townreads. I had a hard time sorting the player list, but this is what I came up with. Pretty much all y'all look scummy, but the people on top look less scummy than those on bottom.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus
tris

LuciferMorningStar
Galaxis

Dwlee99
ssbm_Kyouko
Shrek
Pavowski

Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

[Seanzie]

Zyla

If you have a question, words are generally better.

[Seanzie]

@seanzie not understanding how you have pavowski at the bottom of your reads list but you have barely interacted with the slot or even voted it when the wagon was building there.
Explain this please.

Not sure why you don't understand me voting my top scumread over my second-most scumread, but even if that wasn't the case, I probably still wouldn't have voted there when the wagon was growing, because I'm not ready to commit to a Povowski flip.

As far as interactions, idk what to tell ya. I poke and prod where I see fit. If I haven't interacted with Pavowski recently it is because either I didn't see anything pokable, or because other people were already poking where I would poke.

Your vote comment here is weird. Why would you expect my vote to be there?

[Seanzie]

@Tris

I just looked through your ISO and couldn't get a sense as to where your head is at. You have a few pokes here and there, but don't really give reads.

Do you have any scumreads? Townreads? What are your thoughts right now?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I'm town.

Oh, okay, lemme just bump 'ya up there then.

If you're town, is there someone in particular above the magic clear line that you think should take your place below it (not necessarily as the bottom slot, but just one of the slots below the magic clear line)?

Also, do you have any hot takes on any of the other people below the line?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I'm town.

Oh, okay, lemme just bump 'ya up there then.

If you're town, is there someone in particular above the magic clear line that you think should take your place below it (not necessarily as the bottom slot, but just one of the slots below the magic clear line)?

Also, do you have any hot takes on any of the other people below the line?

Anyone from

Zyla

,

T3

,

Galaxis

but not in my position.... should be in null fmpov.

At least one scum between

tris

and

Pavowski

, so they can be in my position.

Tell me about T3. How do you normally read them? Are they null just because of their lack-of-content style?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I am curious how you've cleared Galaxis at this point.

I haven't. Sorry if it is unclear (do-do-cha!), but the magical clear line is NOT meant to indicate anything about the players, simply that IF everyone above it is clear, then autoing based on the list will win. It is more of a thing to help me and others think, rather than a tool to communicate my thoughts. Maybe I should think of a better name for it than the "magical clear line"...

Galaxis is above the magical clear line right now simply in virtue of the fact that there are a lot of people who are worse that Galaxis IMO.

[Seanzie]

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

I'm tellin ya', words are significantly better at communicating.

[Seanzie]

"null line?"

No, that doesn't really work either. It isn't a null line. People above or below it can be null, towny or scummy, depending on how current reads are. Maybe I'll just call it the "PoE line".

[Seanzie]

Not sure what to think about Dwlee right now.

I've made a list, invited people to engage me about it so we can work together. It seems pretty clear Dwlee disagrees with me about some stuff, but instead of trying to work with me, they are just posting smilies.

Dwlee, come talk to me. If you're town, show me that by working with me to synthesize our thoughts into a better list. If you're scum, be brave and work with me anyways, knowing that I am good at spotting wolves by how they work.

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

[Seanzie]

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

She was trying to shade me for my scum pool being "too big" it looks like

and also just completely flubbed out of there when I questioned what she was trying to say. Like what does "it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list" mean? I didn't put them in any real order, and I obviously think she is the scummiest so her comment doesn't make sense.

The other things I found scummy were that

her first reads list had me as scum for very bad reasons, including missing the next post in the thread where I had explained something.

She also accused me of OMGUSing her and then OMGUS'd me but only after she remembered she was supposed to vote by the vote count.

I don't see her posts that way, however I agree that her not answering your follow-up question leaves it quite ambiguous in a bad way.

I disagree with this. Her thoughts on you looked quite good IMO. I think your posts involving Pavowski were bad, and her questioning you about it was reasonable. You seem stuck on the idea that she didn't quote a specific post that you wanted her to quote. Sure, she probably should have, but considering that you felt the need to immediately clarify your "bad ISO" post, maybe that was because you also realized it looked scummy?

She voiced a scumread on you, then you started pushing her about it. I don't necessarily think your push was purely OMGUS, but I can see how she could see it that way. The vote count thing is NAI, I pretty much always reconsider where my vote is when I see a VC, so I don't see that as a valid reason to suspect her.

Looking through her ISO, I do notice more reactionary content than I remember originally, so I will give that as a strike against her. Your points have not swayed me much though.

One thing I do like from you is that you had relatively nuanced reasons for your read there. One thing I don't like from you is that most of your case does seem to be OMGUS. Her scumread on you is what set you off, her not giving you credit for a post you made, you push as scummy. You interpret her comment as saying you have too many scumreads when it doesn't really say that.

Can you do a trustfall on her?

[Seanzie]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

The magical clear line doesn't move. With 13 players, a list of 7 townies wins (assuming no unexpected KP), so the magical clear line always has 7 people above it and 6 below it. Thus, if Salsabil were to move above it, someone would necessarily need to move below it.

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

Yes. Taco's super reactionary OMGUS style is something I am inherently suspicious of, because it is a style that relatively good wolves can hide behind. Also, Taco seems quite a bit different than the last game I played with them where they were town (I was scum, but it was a multiball game, so I could still judge others relatively well as I only had TMI on my own teammates). Granted, they had a claim that game that made them very likely town, so idk if the differences are AI. Either way, I am very resistant to the idea of having Taco on the top of my list as I do not necessarily trust them.

As I've said, I'm honestly having a hard time finding towny things about people this game, whereas I can point out scummy stuff on pretty much everyone right now, so my list is less "this person is up there because they're super towny", and more "this person is up there because they aren't as scummy as the others".

[Seanzie]

I don't see her posts that way, however I agree that her not answering your follow-up question leaves it quite ambiguous in a bad way.

Kinda still seems like that given her followup below your post

Eh, I mean it literally isn't what she said, but her response was perhaps worse. Idk why she is assuming you were saying that all of those reads were exactly equal.

She voiced a scumread on you, then you started pushing her about it. I don't necessarily think your push was purely OMGUS, but I can see how she could see it that way. The vote count thing is NAI, I pretty much always reconsider where my vote is when I see a VC, so I don't see that as a valid reason to suspect her.

I don't see how you can think she could see it that way. (Jeez that was tied together) My push isn't because she thinks I'm scum, it's cause she thinks I'm scum for bad reasons.

Eh, from an impartial observer, I think your posts could be interpreted as OMGUS. I'm not saying that they are just that, but I stand by my earlier point that I could easily see her thinking that.

Can you do a trustfall on her?

I assume you mean would I go 1 for 1 with her? Yes.

No, a trustfall is when you try to find something that could indicate a person is town even if you find them scummy. I'm not saying you need to find something that flips your read around, but could you give one positive point on that slot, or do you think there is nothing redeeming about Zyla in this game?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I dont understand this? What does this mean?

What does auto mean here??

I am confused >~<

Auto means locking in the elim choices for the rest of the game regardless of what happens. So like, if we went into auto with this list, we would chop (assuming these people are all still alive), Salsabil D1, then Ssbm D2, then Pavowski D3, then Tris D4, then Dwlee D5, then Lucifer D6. For the record, I am NOT suggesting that we go on auto (and we never should), just saying that the line is where it is at because the number of names below it are exactly how many we need in a correct PoE to win on auto.

[Seanzie]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

The magical clear line doesn't move. With 13 players, a list of 7 townies wins (assuming no unexpected KP), so the magical clear line always has 7 people above it and 6 below it. Thus, if Salsabil were to move above it, someone would necessarily need to move below it.

This is confusing to me. What does the magical clear line mean?

In a game of 13 players, assuming no extra KP, if you can give a list of 7 names, and everyone agrees to NEVER yeet those 7 names, IF those 7 names are all town, town is guaranteed to win.

In a game of 13 players, assuming no extra KP, if you give a list of 6 names, and everyone agrees to NEVER yeet those 6 names, even IF those 6 names are all town, town could still lose.

So, in a game with 13 people, 7 is the magic clear number, i.e. the smallest number such that if we put 7 people above that line, and they are all town, the PoE we get below it is winning (assuming no extra KP).

Note: while my name is at the bottom of the list, I am counting myself as above the line, giving the 7 people above the line.

[Seanzie]

No, a trustfall is when you try to find something that could indicate a person is town even if you find them scummy. I'm not saying you need to find something that flips your read around, but could you give one positive point on that slot, or do you think there is nothing redeeming about Zyla in this game?

No, I don't think any of her posts indicate genuinely trying to solve the game. Her reads are weak sauce. The only other thing she has done other than give her reads is her interactions with me which you already know I don't like.

Even the tunneliest of town can give a trustfall on any slot with content. Please try again. It doesn't have to be super strong, but what is ONE reason why she might be town?

Note: me asking you to do a trustfall isn't about reading her, it is about reading you.

[Seanzie]

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Zyla and Galaxis

I'm already engaging about Zyla, so tell me about Galaxis? Their slot is extremely null, so they are mostly where they are at because of lack of scumminess rather than presence of towniness. Do you have a different opinion? Who below the magic clear line do you think should be replaced with Galaxis?

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, one question aboubt 598, what makes T3 towny to you? He almost always reads null to me, so I'd love to hear how you're formulating your read

I liked T3's push on Taco at the very beginning of the game. T3 didn't try to overly shade Taco about it, but instead just pointed out that Taco probably couldn't have formed a read on T3 at that point. T3 has also generally been townhunting, and seems to want to make an effort to explain their thoughts more than they usually do, and I'll always encourage that. Idk T3 well enough to say what is in/out of his ranges, but there things are all on the town-side of null, and I haven't been majorly pinged by them, thus they've float upwards on my list. Especially since most people have pinged me, my bar for being on the "townside" of my list is pretty low.

[Seanzie]

@Zyla, LHF is low hanging fruit.

All, can we seriously wagon somebody?

Who do you propose we wagon?

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

Yes. Taco's super reactionary OMGUS style is something I am inherently suspicious of, because it is a style that relatively good wolves can hide behind. Also, Taco seems quite a bit different than the last game I played with them where they were town (I was scum, but it was a multiball game, so I could still judge others relatively well as I only had TMI on my own teammates). Granted, they had a claim that game that made them very likely town, so idk if the differences are AI. Either way, I am very resistant to the idea of having Taco on the top of my list as I do not necessarily trust them.

As I've said, I'm honestly having a hard time finding towny things about people this game, whereas I can point out scummy stuff on pretty much everyone right now, so my list is less "this person is up there because they're super towny", and more "this person is up there because they aren't as scummy as the others".

What you're saying isn't unreasonable but it feels too "mechanical" to me.

I dont think mechanical is the right word. What I mean is it feels like a pure game/logic standpoint that takes the responsibility of forming strong reads away from you as a player and shifts it onto this "poe/clear line". Yes you are correct in that without unexpected KP that a correct list will lead to a victory, but if even one scum slips into your top half the game is lost (if you stick with the strategy). Playing by the "clear line" leads to lining mislims in all likelihood, regardless of alignment.

I'm not planning on ever autoing, and I'm still sorting within the "above" and "below" of the clear line, and will push people over/under the clear line as I see fit, so I think your worries here do not apply.

Instead, it is something that helps me and others think about the game. If you see someone you strongly scumread above my clear line, then that means we probably have something to talk about. Right now, I do not feel confident at all about the state of my readslist, but hopefully as the game goes on, certain names will start to clearly belong above the magical clear line, and those become my towncore. Some names will clearly never be able to get above the clear line, and those become my main suspects (even if they aren't always the most scummy, if someone just does NOT belong above the magical clear line, they need to be resolved), and for the people that shuffle back and forth across that line a lot, those are clearly people I need to spend more time looking into to try to get a better read on.

This isn't the only way to think about the game, but it can be a useful thought exercise.

[Seanzie]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

What would you say your town meta is? You're like always scum to me so I tend to not trust my read

I usually don't case people and rely on tone.

Is your choice to change up your meta for this game caused by something, or just decided to do it?

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, did you ever finish that trustfall ISO?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Dwlee99

I have a very hard time thinking that you as town couldn't find a single reason, no matter how weak, that Zyla is town.

[Seanzie]

You'd think that would look worse for Zyla than for me

"She has asked people questions about what they're thinking"

and then what has she done with it...?

I think it suggests you're either tunneled or a wolf, because it suggests you aren't thinking critically on that slot and giving them a fair shake. You've been reluctantly willing to engage with me on this little exercise. I'm not exactly sure how to interpret that yet, since it could be "town reluctantly reaching out to try to work with fellow town, even if they don't agree with the methods", or it could be "wolf uncomfortable to be working with town, but afraid to cutoff the interaction because it would look bad if they do/cause a townie to push them". I'll think on this and give a judgement a bit later.

[Seanzie]

Looking back through our combined ISO, I actually do like Dwlee's responses in 340 and 345, I can give them some town points for those two

Well, yeah, it's not anything special, it's just playing the game. And while I can understand it feeling defensive that I scum read Titus for that,

I'd like to think that if I saw someone call someone out for not having any good reads I'd scum read it regardless of if the read was on me

.

Why is the bolded scummy?

Also, I noticed I forgot to respond to this post. I honestly don't know how I didn't notice that on a reread.
It was supposed to say "If I saw someone scum read someone for not having reads/analysis in their posts when they themselves don't have any yet, I would scum read it [..]"

This is a towny post. It shows consistency with thought process but reads that are different to what she thought before.

This feels staged.

[Seanzie]

@Sea, I think you're setting yourself up to be agency captured.

If this is towards me,

1.) Sean is a much better short name for me than Sea.

2.) What does "agency captured" mean?

[Seanzie]

2.) What does "agency captured" mean?

Policy Eliminated maybe?

I think it is more likely they were saying something more like "pocketed", which I am wondering about;)

[Seanzie]

Zyla, can you tell me about T3?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Dwlee99

I have a very hard time thinking that you as town couldn't find a single reason, no matter how weak, that Zyla is town.

You'd think that would look worse for Zyla than for me

"She has asked people questions about what they're thinking"

and then what has she done with it...?

I was reading Sean as scummy early in the game but all their recent posts pull them back into null for me. Like you're clearly trying to sort players, and you're so matter-of-fact and emotionless about it that you could be doing it for town or scum reasons. What's weird for me is that you have Zyla as your *top* town read. I'm not saying I scumread Zyla, but you very clearly put her at the top, and I don't get it. By the rationale of your magic-clear line, you're saying she's the last person you'd eliminate right now. Is that really true?

However, Dwlee's failure to go along with this exercise is weird. I mean, I'd think anybody should be able to look at anybody in this game and point to one towny and one scummy thing, even if it's just a feeling.

Zyla was my top town read, but I am seriously reconsidering things given how many people expressed doubt about that slot, and Dwlee and my interactions. I was worried about Dwlee possibly being scum trying to push a Zyla misyeet, but the more I think on Dwlee's case on Zyla and their interactions with me, the more I'm thinking Dwlee is town. T3's reaction to Zyla's post last night struck me as very weird, so I am starting to wonder about a T3/Zyla team, and thus my readslist needs to be updated quite a bit.

[Seanzie]

I'm almost certain tris is town this game because of the stark meta contrast.

Didn't you say the opposite just a little while ago, based on ongoing game meta?

[Seanzie]

Taco Hemingway
Titus

Dwlee99

Galaxis
Shrek
LuciferMorningStar

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T3
Zyla

tris
Pavowski
ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

Okay, this is where I am at right now. I don't feel good about that bottom block of 4 though, so I need to spend some more time sorting through those players. Does anyone have a strong towncase on any of those bottom four?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Zyla This is E-2 I believe.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: pav

Why Pav over Zyla (or even one of me/Ssbm, since you just voiced that world as a possibility)?

I admit that Zyla's early case on Dwlee had me thinking she was town, but she has trended steadily downhill in every look I've had at her since. Pav on the other hand started out looking not great, but I think recently has been trending up.

Zyla also has had the most people given stances on, so while we don't need to yeet her immediately, as it stands right now, her flip in either direction will contain the most information.

[Seanzie]

Nah fuck that. I'm not gonna be satiated by platitudes like "high info lim".

Scumcase her if you really think that and can present an argument. Else when zyla ends up flipping town im looking straight towards your slot.

I want to hear your thoughts.

[Seanzie]

Nah fuck that. I'm not gonna be satiated by platitudes like "high info lim".

Scumcase her if you really think that and can present an argument.

Else when zyla ends up flipping town im looking straight towards your slot.

This is extremely worrisome from Taco here. If Taco is town, this is just bad play. If Taco is scum though, this has either the effect of giving Taco an easy push tomorrow if Zyla is town, or pushing me away from voting Zyla with a threat if Zyla is scum.

[Seanzie]

Im not home rn so cant go into detail - but just look at how -safe- seanzie is playing here.

Their complaint about me isnt that im wrong. Its that i could be *right* and then it makes them look bad. Trying to twist what im doing (Trying to stop a town elimination and move it into my poe) as something its not(setting up his lim ??)

"safe"? What, by considering different possibilities? Nah, this fake.

VOTE: Taco

Taco Zyla teamed. Probably T3 the third.

[Seanzie]

good. Vote me. Make the zyla wagon dissolve.

I still think Zyla is the right choice as of right now. My vote on you is symbolic.

[Seanzie]

My thought processes are too complex for you to try to pretend they're fake. The real fakeness is you trying to pretend you're genuine in your accusations.
L

Nah, they're fake. If you were actually town and had good thoughts, you wouldn't need idle threats to try to get wagons to move the way you want them to.

[Seanzie]

My thought processes are too complex for you to try to pretend they're fake. The real fakeness is you trying to pretend you're genuine in your accusations.
L

Nah, they're fake. If you were actually town and had good thoughts, you wouldn't need idle threats to try to get wagons to move the way you want them to.

Weird because last time you saw town me i did just that (;

No you didn't, you were just rude.

[Seanzie]

My thought processes are too complex for you to try to pretend they're fake. The real fakeness is you trying to pretend you're genuine in your accusations.
L

Nah, they're fake. If you were actually town and had good thoughts, you wouldn't need idle threats to try to get wagons to move the way you want them to.

Weird because last time you saw town me i did just that (;

No you didn't, you were just rude.

You're reducing the nuances of my play to just "rude".

You didn't use threats the way you are here. Here your threats have a clear agenda, and all your "If you do X, you are outed scum" or "If you do X, I will push you tomorrow", that isn't something you were doing last game.

Also, you were very rude to Alana last game. Sure, Alana not using proper pronouns is BS, and she was pretty rude back, but it was most of the game. However, what you DIDN'T do is threaten Alana or other players, unless they do what you say.

[Seanzie]

Comparing this game and that game is apples and oranges and while they're both fruit, the dynamic was different.

Taco (paraphrased): "I always do this! You should know you saw me do this last game!"

Me (paraphrased): "You didn't do this last game"

Taco (paraphrased): "apples and oranges!"

[Seanzie]

Yes. Because the rudeness in that game is the parallel to my threat against quickhammers in this game.

I dont care if you try to twist my weird outlook about my self meta. You just refuse to acknowledge that my thoughts are very complex for a scum if i am scum here.

I admit that your thoughts are more complex than a newb scum could do, but I get the feeling you aren't new at this game. I've never seen you as scum but unless you're really bad at scum, you shouldn't be out of your range given your play here.

[Seanzie]

I think Sean and Taco is t v t and both are being incredibly stubborn about their Z reads.

If I had to pick one to be scum, it would be Sean bussing actually. He had Z at near mason levels of confidence and now he's at scum lock despite Z's play being largely the same.

1. How am I being stubborn about my read on Zyla?

2. Uhh, no I didn't ever have Zyla anywhere near "mason level". Go back and read my posts. I clearly indicated that I was finding most people scummy and Zyla was in the position she was because I found her less scummy than others.

3. I don't have Zyla at scumlock right now. I just think based on what is going on Taco/Zyla/T3 make sense as a team. You should stop putting words into my mouth.

4. Switching from having someone as a top townread to a scumread would be a crap bus play. I know you don't know me as a player, but that isn't something I would do because there is no way I get townpoints if Zyla flips scum given my earlier stance.

[Seanzie]

If I had to pick one to be scum, it would be Sean bussing actually. He had Z at near mason levels of confidence and now he's at scum lock despite Z's play being largely the same.

Me bussing here makes zero sense, but okay.

[Seanzie]

lmao t3 as scum is an even bigger joke than labeling zyla or i as scum.
Explain why t3 is scum to you.

T3 is acting differently this game. Possibly because they are just trying to improve as a player, possibly because they had a recent scum game where they got caught very easily. I don't see T3 as standalone scummy, but their progression on Zyla has weirded me out, so I think Zyla/T3 have teammate equity. In particular, there was a point when Dwlee and I were engaging with each other about Zyla, and Zyla came in with a post that IMO looked like she was trying to use Dwlee/my interactions to push Dwlee off her, and I thought the post looked quite scummy, but T3 immediately chimed in about how towny of a post that was, which felt staged, again as if they were trying to use my sorting of Dwlee to try to push people off Zyla.

So, T3 is possibly scum because they are no longer in their townrange and have teammate equity with Zyla, who I'm also currently entertaining as scum.

[Seanzie]

Well that was stupid.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: pavowski

ooooh you want to hammer so bad ooooooh

What is this?

[Seanzie]

Its not scummy is what it is.

Yes it is.

[Seanzie]

Nope. Not at all.

Nice try tho!

Yes it is, I think it looks like newish scum who wanted to move their vote, but not willing to naked vote, so struggling to find a "natural" way to move their vote. Possibly just awkward town, but also possibly awkward scum.

[Seanzie]

TTT

[Seanzie]

T3, can you tell me about Titus?

[Seanzie]

I can't talk about it because it would be against site rules.

Thoughts on Titus?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Zyla I believe this is E-2.

[Seanzie]

Zyla is a null read right now for reasons already explained. Lucifer had 100000000x partner equity with Zyla but now he's town so I don't think lim Zyla.

if pav flips town i dont know if zyla can be town here.

pav scum tho i think you go Seanzie -> Kyouko and win.

I'm only interested in Seanzie or Lucifer today

What changed?

Also, your read on me is crap, and you know it.

[Seanzie]

Zyla is a null read right now for reasons already explained. Lucifer had 100000000x partner equity with Zyla but now he's town so I don't think lim Zyla.

if pav flips town i dont know if zyla can be town here.

pav scum tho i think you go Seanzie -> Kyouko and win.

I'm only interested in Seanzie or Lucifer today

What changed?

Also, your read on me is crap, and you know it.

that was an "i dont know" not a "im sure of this way".

nightkill shows zyla is town.

if dwlee or I died I'd be more willing to entertain zyla scum here - but lucifer quickhammer and their vig claim being unverified is enough openwolfing for me.

So instead of explaining what changed, you're deflecting. Noted.

NK analysis is one of the most dubious ways to form reads. When used in tandem with other things, it can be vaguely helpful, but it is also easily exploitable by the wolves. I have a hard time thinking this is convincing to you.

[Seanzie]

Lucifer is in the process of sitefaking, he likely didn't do an action.

What is sitefaking?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Taco Heningway

[Seanzie]

It seems pretty likely that taco killed Salsabil and is now trying to spin the NK into something it isn't. NK analysis is EXTREMELY unreliable, ESPECIALLY when all scum are alive, since the kill is a combination effort from 3 people, all with different ideas, and NK's tend to be full of WIFOM, but Taco isn't thinking critically about this at all, and is just pushing a false narrative without reconsidering.

[Seanzie]

It's at least one of seanzie and taco and also Zyla

Taco and Zyla I dig. Probably Zyla is the right vote today, but Taco is outing in thread right now, so I'm going to continue pushing there to see if they give up their third.

[Seanzie]

It seems pretty likely that taco killed Salsabil and is now trying to spin the NK into something it isn't. NK analysis is EXTREMELY unreliable, ESPECIALLY when all scum are alive, since the kill is a combination effort from 3 people, all with different ideas, and NK's tend to be full of WIFOM, but Taco isn't thinking critically about this at all, and is just pushing a false narrative without reconsidering.

This is false. You don't know how I think. I always take into consideration who was NKed and why.


I already pointed out a major reason: they want the Zyla wagon to happen again.

Who didn't scumread Zyla that would likely not be on that wagon? - Salsa

Natural progression.

Everytime I personally get nightkilled, I either have too many strong townreads that are correct, and/or I am vocally correct about 1-2 scum OR I am too towny.

Like idk maybe I'm thinking too deep into this but this feels like the obvious answer based on gamestate vibe immediately starting this dayphase.

or the NK could have been done for 100 other reasons. If you're town, worldbuilding around a single precarious piece of information like this is bad play, and you literally subject yourself to WIFOM this way. Wolves don't always make level 0 choices.

Either way, the way in which you're pushing this one specific narrative involving the NK still makes me think it is likely you were part of the decision to NK Salsabil and are trying to use that kill to save your wolfmate Zyla, whom you seem to be convinced is town but haven't been able to give any good reasons for your thoughts.

[Seanzie]

It's at least one of seanzie and taco and also Zyla

Taco and Zyla I dig. Probably Zyla is the right vote today, but Taco is outing in thread right now, so I'm going to continue pushing there to see if they give up their third.

What am I outting?

Yourself as a wolf.

[Seanzie]

NK analysis is one of the most dubious ways to form reads. When used in tandem with other things, it can be vaguely helpful, but it is also easily exploitable by the wolves. I have a hard time thinking this is convincing to you. (Color redacted)

Can you avoid this color in the future? The dark blue is hard to read.

I will try to keep that in mind. I usually just pick a random color, so sorry if I use it again by accident.

[Seanzie]

It seems pretty likely that taco killed Salsabil and is now trying to spin the NK into something it isn't. NK analysis is EXTREMELY unreliable, ESPECIALLY when all scum are alive, since the kill is a combination effort from 3 people, all with different ideas, and NK's tend to be full of WIFOM, but Taco isn't thinking critically about this at all, and is just pushing a false narrative without reconsidering.

This is false. You don't know how I think. I always take into consideration who was NKed and why.


I already pointed out a major reason: they want the Zyla wagon to happen again.

Who didn't scumread Zyla that would likely not be on that wagon? - Salsa

Natural progression.

Everytime I personally get nightkilled, I either have too many strong townreads that are correct, and/or I am vocally correct about 1-2 scum OR I am too towny.

Like idk maybe I'm thinking too deep into this but this feels like the obvious answer based on gamestate vibe immediately starting this dayphase.

or the NK could have been done for 100 other reasons. If you're town, worldbuilding around a single precarious piece of information like this is bad play, and you literally subject yourself to WIFOM this way. Wolves don't always make level 0 choices.

Either way, the way in which you're pushing this one specific narrative involving the NK still makes me think it is likely you were part of the decision to NK Salsabil and are trying to use that kill to save your wolfmate Zyla, whom you seem to be convinced is town but haven't been able to give any good reasons for your thoughts.

damn guess then I am doing "bad play".

Or you're just a wolf.

[Seanzie]

I like both Taco and Lucifer for town atm along with Sasibil TRs.

This likely means I need to figure out how to make more time.

What do you mean by this?

[Seanzie]

I like both Taco and Lucifer for town atm along with Sasibil TRs.

This likely means I need to figure out how to make more time.

What do you mean by this?

It means I need to be more vocal to protect my TRs and sort scum.

What are your thoughts on Zyla right now?

[Seanzie]

because i think that he's gotten progressively more scummy as the first day went on (plus this day as well). i think him trying to frame my hammer bait was a scum tactic for sure and him trying to gain towncred by constructing his own narrative to contrast against taco's is also scummy. i would go through his whole iso thing but im lazy.

anywayyy order of my scum to not scum

town:
t3
dwlee
taco
titus

null:
galaxis
lucifer (until replaced)
tris

scum:
zyla
kyoko
seanzie

If you don't see why your Pav vote was sus af, idk what to tell you dude.

[Seanzie]

you can start by telling me why my pav vote was sus af

Nope. Not at all.

Nice try tho!

Yes it is, I think it looks like newish scum who wanted to move their vote, but not willing to naked vote, so struggling to find a "natural" way to move their vote. Possibly just awkward town, but also possibly awkward scum.

[Seanzie]

so what do you think that makes lucifer in extension by hammering?

anyway my biggest thing for today is either getting galaxis to do literally anything impactful or just voting them out entirely

So... your scumreads are me, Ssbm and Zyla. Zyla is a wagon... and you only want to push Galaxis?

[Seanzie]

Like, don't get me wrong, Galaxis definitely needs to contribute more or eventually they will become a target. However it looks like Shrek might be trying to save Zyla. I think town!Shrek would be pushing in both directions here.

[Seanzie]

Anybody know what Zyla is at? I lost count.

[Seanzie]

Please no one else vote. I'm nowhere near ready to end the day.

I mean I agree we shouldn't end the day yet, but what in particular are you waiting on?

[Seanzie]

So with 11 alive, assuming 3 wolves, we need a PoE of 5.

Taco
Shrek
Galaxis
Lucifer
Zyla

Thoughts?

[Seanzie]

NO!!!! I NO LIKEY THAT POE!!!!

Okay then... can you maybe do something productive then like give your thoughts on who does and doesn't belong there?

[Seanzie]

Why isn't Tris in your PoE?

Good question. I don't really have a good answer, other than I kind of forgot about Tris when I made the PoE.

[Seanzie]

t3
tris
Galaxis
Lucifer
Zyla

This is a better PoE.

If Zyla flips scum, I encourage you to rethink Taco/Shrek. Both of them look like they've been trying to save Zyla.

[Seanzie]

Shrek is obvtown.

Shrek's content is abysmal. If they are town, they are borderline useless. They've only given reads when under extreme pressure, and today all they have is OMGUS on me because I called out their scummy vote last night. They are making 0 attempts to solve the game, and their posting at times is so awkward that it looks a LOT like they wrote, then erased, then rewrote, then erased again, and rewrote, and finally gave up and posted whatever they had, like newer wolves tend to do when they get nervous.

All the warning signs are there. Don't tell me they are obvtown. If they are town, please explain how you're finding their play is towny.

[Seanzie]

im right here you know

Yes, you've been around the whole game and aren't giving content unless pressed and aren't scumhunting. I'm well aware of where you are.

[Seanzie]

Sorry, my last message was a bit rude Shrek. From an outside-the-game standpoint, I apologize.

[Seanzie]

I doubt my PoE contains all three scum.

I think my PoE has a reasonable chance of having all three, but I'm not going to be surprised if I'm missing someone.

[Seanzie]

If anyone wants to make a case that Shrek is town, I will listen and re-evaluate. I've looked at that slot quite a bit because my impression of Shrek seems very different than the consensus impression. Each time I look though, I still don't feel good about Shrek and I haven't heard anything say anything persuasive in Shrek's favor. So I ask everyone who currently townreads Shrek, please either try to explain a bit why you think they are town, or if you struggle with that, perhaps re-evaulate.

[Seanzie]

It would be nice for me to clear up a spot in the PoE, because I would feel better about it if Tris was in there.

[Seanzie]

Echo!

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

...

Echo

[Seanzie]

Are there no memes on this site?

[Seanzie]

Seanzie I think Shrek is trying to solve the game, that's why I townread them.

Can you please like cite examples of this?

[Seanzie]

I doubt my PoE contains all three scum.

I think my PoE has a reasonable chance of having all three, but I'm not going to be surprised if I'm missing someone.

If anyone wants to make a case that Shrek is town, I will listen and re-evaluate. I've looked at that slot quite a bit because my impression of Shrek seems very different than the consensus impression. Each time I look though, I still don't feel good about Shrek and I haven't heard anything say anything persuasive in Shrek's favor. So I ask everyone who currently townreads Shrek, please either try to explain a bit why you think they are town, or if you struggle with that, perhaps re-evaulate.

It would be nice for me to clear up a spot in the PoE, because I would feel better about it if Tris was in there.

I don't know why seanzie suddenly spammed out the last page but clearly there was something important there they didnt want us to see

Or maybe I was in thread by myself and no one was active for a long time so I got bored and yelled echo really loud.

[Seanzie]

Sean, can you not spam.

I agree with Dwelee.

Eh five post can barely be called spam. Plus, it was artistic with the cascading echos.

Can you give examples of where Shrek is solving?

[Seanzie]

VOTE: seanzie

Yes, keep trying to find alternatives to Zyla.

[Seanzie]

dont care. Thunderdome me

No, thunderdomes are unproductive and hazardous to threadhealth.

[Seanzie]

zyla is town

if she wasnt then there would be a loud voice gone off her wagon.

simple cause and effect. The night kill doesn't lie.

Are you new at this game? I don't actually know how long you've been playing, but it is like you've never read a wolfchat before.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Zyla

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Zyla

This is E-2 I believe, btw.

[Seanzie]

Why do you want to rush the day btw?

Never said nothin' like that. Thanks though.

Useful in eliminating

scum

who don't know how to interact with my slot and

manipulate others words/actions for their own agenda

.

[Seanzie]

Ugh.

Everyone

is making smart cases and I have way too many trs but no srs except tris and Zyla who I don't even scumread that much.

Can you be specific about who you're talking about here?

[Seanzie]

also im drunk off polish wodka whats up

You should towncase Zyla

[Seanzie]

also im drunk off polish wodka whats up

You should towncase Zyla

No

Helpful.

[Seanzie]

It's not helpful to do so before Zyla can present her own defense first and then I can build off that rather than giving her a defense and potentially end up shielding a scum for free.

I work reactively, not proactively.

Taco has been actively working against a Zyla wagon for two days, but Taco can't even articulate a reason to townread her.

I'd also like to note that this is the first time Taco has admitted that Zyla may be scum. My thoughts? Given Zyla's activity pattern this game (reasonably active D1, less active as they became a wagon, today made one lost post but otherwise been MIA), if they are a wolf, it seems likely they've kind of given up. This is a bit tinfoily, but I think Taco knows that through scumchat and has now started the process of cutting their losses on that slot.

[Seanzie]

It's not helpful to do so before Zyla can present her own defense first and then I can build off that rather than giving her a defense and potentially end up shielding a scum for free.

I work reactively, not proactively.

Taco has been actively working against a Zyla wagon for two days, but Taco can't even articulate a reason to townread her.

I'd also like to note that this is the first time Taco has admitted that Zyla may be scum. My thoughts? Given Zyla's activity pattern this game (reasonably active D1, less active as they became a wagon, today made one lost post but otherwise been MIA), if they are a wolf, it seems likely they've kind of given up. This is a bit tinfoily, but I think Taco knows that through scumchat and has now started the process of cutting their losses on that slot.

This sounds more like you're the one privy to this

Good try, but no.

[Seanzie]

I can confirm that I'm neither scum nor have given up, I've just been a bit busier than expected

Though I will say that the way that Taco has been defending me this game seems kind of odd to me, I haven't really been acting as towny this game as they seem to think, so honestly, I would love to see them give actual reasons for why I'm town.

It's not helpful to do so before Zyla can present her own defense first and then I can build off that rather than giving her a defense and potentially end up shielding a scum for free.

To be clear, what is there left for me to defend myself on? As far as I can tell, I've answered everyone's expressed concerns on me to the best of my ability.

If you looked up "wolfy pop-in" in the dictionary...

[Seanzie]

It's not helpful to do so before Zyla can present her own defense first and then I can build off that rather than giving her a defense and potentially end up shielding a scum for free.

I work reactively, not proactively.

Taco has been actively working against a Zyla wagon for two days, but Taco can't even articulate a reason to townread her.

I'd also like to note that this is the first time Taco has admitted that Zyla may be scum. My thoughts? Given Zyla's activity pattern this game (reasonably active D1, less active as they became a wagon, today made one lost post but otherwise been MIA), if they are a wolf, it seems likely they've kind of given up. This is a bit tinfoily, but I think Taco knows that through scumchat and has now started the process of cutting their losses on that slot.

This sounds more like you're the one privy to this

Good try, but no.

Why did I drop from your top townread to your scumreads?

You weren't really a townread of mine. You just were less scummy looking than others because I gave you some points early on for being active and aggresive. I made it pretty clear that I didn't feel good about my early reads and that I found everyone scummy, but still tried to sort based on how scummy everyone looked.

While others have trended up, your play has shown a lot of agenda, I think you were a key player in the Pav mislunch, and I think your progression on Zyla (or lack-thereof) is telling. Couple that with all the other reasons I've pointed out, and viola, you have scum equity.

[Seanzie]

And being towny isn't a points system. thats what scum like to do to justify their pushes.

you posted an unprompted reads list, put me at the top, and as soon as d2 rolls around and im talkinga bout you in a bad light, i drop down again.

you pushed on me SoD1 and then when i calmed down towards you EoD1 you said i was your top read and then suddenly I talk badly about you and im at the bottom.

fucking peak agenda play here and you won't get away with it.


you trying to say *I* have an agenda here is fucking hilarious considering how you're playing here with an actual agenda.

How was I a *key* player in the Pav ML? You unvoted that wagon on purpose to stay off it - but you WANTED it.

So don't try to play like you were off wagon here. You hopped off when there was enough fire for it to go through.

Again, nah but good try.

At this point I realize all you're doing is trying to find something to defend against. You asking me about my read on you is not meant to sort me, but meant to make yourself look good by responding to specific points. You can read my ISO and you can see that none of what you're saying here makes sense if you actually look, but you won't do that.

[Seanzie]

if you're so sure my points are wrong - quote your own posts that disprove it.

Nah, don't need to. As long as we flip Zyla, I think the game will be broken wide open.

[Seanzie]

votecount

day 1, vc 9

• Pavowski
  (7, E-0): titus
  (478)
  , t3
  (481)
  , salsabil faria
  (625)
  , zyla
  (750)
  , taco hemingway
  (796)
  , shrek
  (858)
  , lucifermorningstar
  (861)
  
  
  Zyla
  (4): ssbm_kyouko
  (436)
  , galaxis
  (637)
  , tris
  (752)
  , dwlee99
  (859)
  
  
  T3
  (1): pavowski
  (393)
  
  
  Taco Hemingway
  (1): seanzie
  (805)
  
  
  ssbm_Kyouko
  (0):
  
  Salsabil Faria
  (0):
  
  Titus
  (0):
  
  Dwlee99
  (0):
  
  Shrek
  (0):
  
  LuciferMorningStar
  (0):
  
  tris
  (0):
  
  Seanzie
  (0):
  
  Galaxis
  (0):
  
  
  Not voting
  (0):

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to execute.

vote count shows you having a vanity vote here - you unvoted zyla wagon on purpose to reduce the wagon heat - why?

If you read my ISO, you'd already know why. Try again.

[Seanzie]

I don't need to read your ISO to learn anything. I already know.

Yes, surprisingly it is easy to already know what is going on when you have TMI.

[Seanzie]

Taco has been trying to thunderdome me all day because they are probably pretty good at thunderdomes as scum, and at this point If I'm right and Taco/Zyla are scum together, Taco NEEDS to do something to save Zyla. They can't really bus at this point, and they will look very bad if Zyla flips scum, so Taco is likely desperate here.

I'm done engaging with them though because thunderdomes are just straight up bad for the thread. Clearly the right move here though is to flip Zyla today.

[Seanzie]

If I'm scum here I absolutely bus the fuck out of Zyla once a townie has flipped, because 1 townie 1 scum trade is 100% acceptable in my eyes as scum.

I don't know Zyla's alignment however so I'm here pensively watching them and listening to my townreads and letting Zyla play their game and allow me to reevaluate based on the Pav flip.

Nah, you defended Zyla too hard D1, and you thought Lucifer could go over today.

[Seanzie]

I applaud you for putting in the effort, but I have better things to do that sit here and argue with you.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Seanzie
Taco I think you're right on Seanzie but also I'm right on Zyla I'm pretty sure so we do that next pretty please

The only thing Taco has going for them is effort. Flip Zyla first. If you want to think about me tomorrow, fine, but you are literally playing into their hands right now. Taco is trying so hard specifically to avoid Zyla flipping. They are trying to find an alternative wagon anywhere they can.

[Seanzie]

Taco couldn't make a case that Zyla is town, so they've been working their ass off to change the narrative in thread. Instead of giving any reasonable reason for their current read on Zyla, they are just pushing me. This is a standard thread distraction, and I kindly ask you all to look at what was going on before Taco started trying to thunderdome me.

[Seanzie]

you 1000% ignoring what I'm hinting at would not help your case if it was just a reaction test, just letting u know lmao

You're claiming mason with Zyla? If you are, just do it. Scum is 1000% better at picking up on softs than town, so being outing but coy makes no sense.

[Seanzie]

if you're not scum Lucifer, Zyla probably is.

vig should nearly always shoot opposing wagon on a town flip, if its a scumflip, people on Zyla wagon.

Taco tells Lucifer to shot Zyla. Nah. Not masons.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie you want to role claim?

In what world would that be appropriate in the current situation?

[Seanzie]

If Taco is claiming mason with Zyla here, I call BS in advance. Look at Taco's EoD1 and tell me that is a mason partner. Taco telling Lucifer to shoot Zyla in case pav is town is not the only post that really doesn't jive with the idea of masons there.

[Seanzie]

I mean you know that he can't be masons with Zyla cause Zyla is evil. You're evil though unless you have a role that beats mine.

I'm not evil dude. I don't know that he absolutely can't be masons with Zyla, but his play makes no sense if he is. I'm not claiming just because you ask me to, sorry.

[Seanzie]

I mean you know that he can't be masons with Zyla cause Zyla is evil. You're evil though unless you have a role that beats mine.

I'm not evil dude. I don't know that he absolutely can't be masons with Zyla, but his play makes no sense if he is. I'm not claiming just because you ask me to, sorry.

Their* Sorry Taco.

[Seanzie]

Taco it's okay, Seanzie I have a guilty on you but given the Thunderdome I'm intervening.

Okay, you don't. Thanks though.

[Seanzie]

What's your role so I can know if it's a fake-guilty?

I'm not telling you my role, but there is no reason an unaltered check on me would give a false-guilty.

[Seanzie]

Whenever you want to rescind, we can move on with eliming Zyla and leting Taco out themselves further.

[Seanzie]

Actually... why would my role resolve anything? That's sus af.

[Seanzie]

Let's say I found a gun in your possession. Why would that be?

so you're softing psychitraist or whatever that role was from the game we just played?

I'm not a vig. Your check is almost assuredly fake, off chance messed with. If you're town and faking, trying to push me for a role is significant -EV compared to just faking an alignment check.

[Seanzie]

Taco is outed scum.

Zyla probably has a strong PR.

Taco is lying.

[Seanzie]

If Taco had a redcheck on me, they wouldn't have been trying so hard to goad me into a thunderdome. There is no reason for that if Taco is telling the truth. They wanted to talk about my read on THEM, not on others. If they were a real cop with a redcheck, they would have been hounding me for thoughts on others all day, and ignoring thoughts on themselves.

They were looking for things to defend against. Plain and simple, cops don't thunderdome like Taco did.

[Seanzie]

UNVOTE:
Okay actually given taco is drunk maybe we want to wait til tomorrow thank you for reminding me.

I think that Seanzie flips scum here but no need to rush the day either.

How are you seriously missing the fact that Taco is working their ass off to try to save their scummate?

[Seanzie]

How are you seriously missing the fact that Taco is working their ass off to try to save their scummate?

Mainly because I scumread your slot and there's now a claimed guilty on you which does not look good for you.

I've never had alchohol so idk how long it takes to get undrunk.
Google time.

Mood. I think when Taco wakes up we will get our answer (I assume they're asleep because of the "goodnight")

Just look at Taco's play. They are clearly faking. They also still haven't given any sort of satisfactory answer for their read on Zyla.

They thought about claiming mason, and when I pointed out that the claim makes no sense, they then claim a redcheck on me? Sometimes the Taco who cried wolf is just a wolf.

[Seanzie]

Taco is fake. A cop with a redcheck does NOT try to goad someone into giving them things to defend against. Look at the entire thunderdome Taco tried to create. The whole time they're trying to get me to give them points to defend against. Eventually they switch gears and decide to fake a red. Only once they start softing they're going to fake a red do they ask me for reads on ANYONE ELSE. Before they, Taco ONLY wanted to talk about my read on on TACO. WHAT COP DOES THAT?

Please look critically at the exchange. Ask yourself "did Taco start this thunderdome with a redcheck, or did Taco decide halfway through to fake a red because it wasn't going as well as they wanted?"

[Seanzie]

man this is the first time ive gotten a legit guilty in forum maf and it does feel good being in this position where your target squirms and flails about like they have a chance

and I goaded you because I wanted to see you spew people. I pulled the trigger prematurely. I never "switched gears".

Just self vote and stop talking. it'll be better for your team that way <3

You wanted to see me spew people... but you wanted to talk all about my progression on YOU?

Good try.