Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[Tarhalindur]

Vote: curiouskarmadog

because he is ckd and I am Tarhalindur.

[Tarhalindur]

Vote: Tarhalindur

Because I'm a day-cop and he came up positive as scum.

So you're an alt of Machiavellian-Mafia and you're claiming Mafia Goon?

RANDOM STAGE BANDWAGON TIME!

Unvote, Vote Jebus

[Tarhalindur]

No, Tar, he's easily influenced by ABR. Also a lynchable offense.

Actually, my preferred solution to ABR and his ilk is vigging/investigation. A nice early bandwagon, however, will have to suffice.

[Tarhalindur]

Jebus: Are you scum? Please answer with a sentence containing exactly ten words.

Fixed for great justice.

[Tarhalindur]

In other news, Erratus Apathos is obvtown.

[Tarhalindur]

Its not Xotxm. Also fail at that smiley.

Unvote Vote Jebus

Populartajo is a wise man, and you should listen to him.

[Tarhalindur]

What's up with all the questions?!

Vote CKD

because there's no moon on the sky tonight!

*raises eyebrow*

Why do you have a problem with questions? Maybe it's because you're scum and you realize that scumhunting is bad for you?

Unvote, Vote: Stef

[Tarhalindur]

[

Pressure on Stef is good. I'll wait to see how he responds to the accusations above before I decide whether or not to put my vote there.

Im bored.
Im vanilla.
Discuss.

Claiming vanilla this early is -usually- bad play if you're town, even if you were only joking (which I can't tell for sure).

FOS populartajo.

Sorry. Frankly, large group discussion isn't my forte. Also, random voting is also my least favorite stage of the entire game.

Not participating in the random voting stage is scummy in my book.

Unvote, vote Seraphim.

Now that the randomness seems to be ending, I'd like to see you post more often.

Only the existence of Stef prevents me from voting you for the italicized portion of this post.

FoS: Sierra

[Tarhalindur]

Not participating in the random voting stage is scummy in my book.

Why? Could you be specific as why you think that scum are more likely to skip the random voting phase?

By not participating in the random voting phase you are denying other players from getting any kind of read on you. Just because someone doesn't like that stage of the game, doesn't mean he should be allowed to get off not participating in it.

[

Pressure on Stef is good. I'll wait to see how he responds to the accusations above before I decide whether or not to put my vote there.

[...]

Only the existence of Stef prevents me from voting you for the italicized portion of this post.

FoS: Sierra

Please explain what you don't like about that sentence.

1) Please phrase your questions better. It's not so much that I don't like your sentence as that I find said sentence very, very scummy.

2) What is so scummy about your sentence? That would be your approval of the Stef wagon without actually placing a vote or FoS on him. It gave me the strong impression that you were trying to push along a wagon without actually committing to said wagon, which I generally find to be a sign of scum who either don't want to be tied to a bad wagon or scum who don't want to draw the attention of a well-known town player.

[Tarhalindur]

Now that I see that post, the reasons why Sierra FOSes me and votes Seraphims arent scumtells at all.
And that italicezed sentence really feels off as Thar notices. He's a wise man.

So, Vote : Sierra

Seriously, if you're going to hop on a bandwagon, at least give more reasoning than a simple "I agree with PLAYERNAME".

Unvote, FoS: populartajo

One of populartajo and Sierra is scum. I'm just not sure which yet.

[Tarhalindur]

One of populartajo and Sierra is scum. I'm just not sure which yet.

Stef has gone down in your scum meter?

He's down to third on my scumdar right now, mainly because I feel tajo and Sierra are currently higher priorities.

[Tarhalindur]

poptajo: Horrible Sierra vote + really bad vanilla claim + defending Stef w/ newbie card
Sierra: the noncommittal post mentioned above
Stef: hostility towards questions + responds to pressure by joking around (in my experience, that actually IS a scumtell, albeit a weak one)

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: Those are the cases on my main suspects

[Tarhalindur]

poptajo: Horrible Sierra vote + really bad vanilla claim + defending Stef w/ newbie card

1. I explained my vote on Sierra. Its not horrible. I explained that the things he suspected arent scumtells.

Perhaps I misspoke when I referred to your vote on Sierra as horrible. The more appropriate phrasing would be "scummy as all hell", and this is BECAUSE of the explanation you provided (which, as far as I can tell, fundamentally amounted to "I want to hop on to this bandwagon".

2. My vanilla claim was because I was bored and I wanted to generate discussion. Null tell, IMO.

Just because you are bored does not mean you should do things that are detrimental to the town. Next question?

3. I didnt defend Stef. All I am asking is why are people so sure about scumtells. Yes, I know they are indicative of more probable alignment, but didnt I just say that this guy could be inexperienced?

OBJECTION! Your asking why people were so sure about scumtells IS defending Stef by using the newbie card (you are trying to blunt other players' attacks on Stef). Your attempt to spin/disguise it otherwise is noteworthy.

Also, just because someone is a newb doesn't mean that I am going to refrain from calling them out when they act like scum.

My question is why CANT he be a newbie? Im not saying he is not scum. My point is why are people so sure of his allignment in page 6? This may be related with experience with scumtells and such but I just watched three games in a row where a dumb townie was lynched because he was full of scumtells.

FOS : Thar and Armlx.

They should know this.

First: as previously noted, just because someone is new doesn't mean we should ignore them when they act like scum.

Second: I can't be sure about Stef's alignment. The fact remains that Stef is, with the information currently available, one of the players I think is MOST LIKELY to be scum - which is exactly the criterion I use to pressure/FoS/vote in a Mafia game.

Third: Your attempt to inject WIFOM into scumtells is noted. As for your anecdote: If townies are getting lynched for committing lots of scumtells, then that means that townies are getting lynched

FOR BEING SCUMMY

. The solution to this problem is not to excuse players who commit scumtells - the solution is to get townies to STOP MAKING SCUMTELLS.

Now, thank you for making it very clear where the scum in populartajo/Sierra is.

Vote: populartajo

[Tarhalindur]

<snip>

Tarhalindur: What is stopping you from FoSing Empking? His vote had way less reason than populartajo did.

<snip>

Two closely related factors: 1) there are bigger fish to fry (read: poptajo), and 2) at the moment I'm only FoS'ing players who I am likely to vote in the near future (Empking is nowhere near as scummy as tajo or Stef are right now, IMO.)

Now, skitzer: Who do you think is most likely to be scum at this time, and why? (Please note that "most convincing case I'm seeing" doesn't cut it for me - I want to see you make your own case here.)

[Tarhalindur]

Regarding my vanilla claim.
This isnt WIFOM. Its common sense. If I were scum, why would I bring unnecessary attention to myself with that claim?

Nice direct contradiction there. (Are you a politician by any chance?)

I WAS BORED. I hate the random stage. I wanted discussion. Yes, its antitown but it doesnt suggest allignment in the context it was used : random stage. Thats why its null.

I'm not going to ignore scummy play just because it occurs during the random stage, and if you are town and knew your claim was anti-town

you should never have made the claim in the first place

.

I dont have problems when people attack me but please, think before you post.

Did you mean to say "I don't have a problem with people attacking me unless they attack me for reasons I consider stupid"? Because if you didn't, that looks like another direct contradiction to me. (It's also rather scummy even if that was what you were trying to say, since it's not hard to take the reducto ad absurdum argument by noting that you could theoretically find *any* reason for attacking you to be stupid...)

Regarding Stef's case.
The only thing Im saying is that since he's a newbie then he's more prone to make scumtells. I NEVER SAID HE WASNT SCUM. What worries me is that some experienced players think that scumtells are infalible and that they are the ultimate truth and that if I dont agree with them that makes me OBVIOUS scum.
This is the logic used : Stef could be scum, Tajo says he could be a newbie, then Tajo is his scumpartner. WTF??!!
I even said that its like the third time that I see "experienced ones" lynching a newbie townie for being a bag of scumtells. Stef could be scum but ITS TOO EARLY to be so sure about that.

Populartajo, you don't seem to understand that just because you aren't saying that someone isn't scum doesn't mean you're not defending them. In fact, I would find it less scummy if that was what you were saying, since then you would be taking a stand on Stef's behavior.

Defense is, at its core, nothing more than working to derail a wagon; note that there are many ways to do so (show how the arguments being used are wrong, show that the behavior that drew the wagon is excusable, try to stall out the wagon until people lose interest, try to redirect the wagon, etc.). I wouldn't find your defense of Stef nearly so scummy if not for the fact that a) you are defending another player (a weak scumtell in my books), and b) you are denying the fact that you are defending another player.

Thar and Armlx are taking this argument further than Id like.

1) Who gave you the right to say where an argument should stop?
2) For the sake of argument, so what if I am blowing the argument out of proportion? In case you hadn't figured it out, blowing minor events out of proportion is how I prefer to get out of the random stage - the major events grow out of that.
3) It's Tar, not Thar. Will you please get the abbreviation right?

Now look for a better target. Ill analyse reactions later. Kthxbay.

1) I don't appreciate being told what to do, especially when I find the reasons for the order flawed and ESPECIALLY in a Mafia game.
2) Wagons don't just magically disappear because you say they should.
3) Trying to get a wagon to magically disappear by saying it should is a scumtell in my book.
4) If I felt there was a player in the game more likely to be scum than you,

I would be voting that player.

Savvy?

[Tarhalindur]

I'm still looking for one that's worth voting for. None of them have branched out quite enough for me yet. I'm going to keep a close eye on Ku_F, as I said before.

Good, that tells me quite a bit.

FoS: Skitzer

Let's see: you're unwilling to take a stand here, most of your post 180 is Information Instead of Analysis* , and your questions looked like an attempt to defend populartajo by directing attention away from him. Yeah, that's not scummy at all...

(* - Information Instead of Analysis: trying to pass off site commentary, Mafia theory, and/or setup speculation as analysis in order to avoid scumhunting.)

[Tarhalindur]

omg, you dont like me asking questions? ... without asking questions at all, how do you plan on scum hunting?

It was a JOKE. Of course i like people asking questions and i ask questions as well since questioning can only help the town since it brings more discussion and more content to the game. Not accepting the presumption that it was a joke is weird considering the alternative would make me an idiot inside or outside the game.

I believe I have already commented on my position about joking in Mafia games.

I feel i said enough in my defense.

Since you seem to be new and I've been burned by this kind of comment before in Newbie games, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is just a newbie mistake. Inexperienced-challenged mode, activate!

[icmode]

In a mafia game, your opinion on whether your defense is adequate is irrrelevant. Your fellow players are the final judge of whether your defense is adequate. If they think your defense is adequate, it is. If they don't think your defense is adequate, it isn't.

[/icmode]

Ooba: continues to go only after me even if he has so little to go with. That tells me he either doesn't have any other leads on any1 else or he's trying to get more people to vote for a person who posted something that in some people's eyes is a scumtell. You haven't bothered to look at other players as well. What are your 3 top suspects and what are your arguments against them?

I have some comments to make here, but I will let Ooba respond to you first.

Tarhalindur: I commented your suspicion on me but what i do find interesting is that you change your primary targets from ( in this order ): PT, Sierra, Me and "He's down to third on my scumdar right now, mainly because I feel tajo and Sierra are currently higher priorities." TO: "Empking is nowhere near as scummy as tajo or Stef are right now"
I see a sudden change that you don't explain. Can you please do so now?

First: You're misinterpreting my Empking comment. I only brought him up because I was explicitly asked by skitzer why I wasn't attacking Empking - he's not a major suspect for me at the moment. My scumdar at the moment is: populartajo, *discontinuity*, Skitzer, and you.

Why you've gone down in the scumdar: I don't find you less scummy (you're about the same as you were in the beginning) - I've simply come to find that populartajo is even more likely to be scum than you are.

Why Skitzer is scummy: see my last post.

Sierra has dropped off of my scumdar because, as I noted earlier, I strongly doubt that populartajo and Sierra are both Mafia (barring 2 mafia factions) and after what I've seen so far I think that populartajo is probably scum.

Also, if you have to vote between armlx and ooba who would you vote for?

If I was forced to vote either armlx or Ooba, I'd vote Ooba, because armlx is obviously town and I don't have a great read on Ooba at this point.

Now, why are you asking this question?

[Tarhalindur]

Do I have to explain again why I am not scum, Thar?

If by "explain again why I am not scum" you mean "explain again why I am not scum in a manner that is, unlike my original defense, logically sound while answering the points that two players are making about me", then yes.

[Tarhalindur]

@PT: you have yet to address my post 150. Please explain your flip-flopping.

Theres no flip-flopping.
Theres a difference between defending him and only pointing out that if he has a goon status and a Saddam-Sattan avatar

we should think twice before wagoning/lynching him.

I understand he could be scum. Ive played with newbies before but newbies ARE MORE PRONE to scumtells.
Thats all ive been saying in this freaking game and NO ONE seems to understand.

The underlined portion of your sentence, which you used to describe your position on Stef, is a textbook definition of defense. Why do you persist in saying that you are not defending Stef?

And if someone should be lynched it must be him and not me because what I did (as some people call "defending" HAS ZERO MOTIVATION as scum.

Either you're ignorant or this is a bald-faced lie. There are perfectly good reasons why scum would want to defend Stef in this situation

regardless of his alignment

. If you are scum and Stef is your partner, then the logical reason why you are defending Stef is that you are trying to prevent your scum partner from getting lynched. If you are scum and Stef is town, then the logical reason why you are defending Stef is that you are trying to buddy up to Stef in the hope that he will think you town and/or be more willing to think that you are on the right track (allowing you to guide his vote onto townies).

[Tarhalindur]

unvote vote BlackAdder

votes Skitzer when skitzer gets heat.

comes in and throws suspicion on Pop and Stef, when they are getting heat.

vote count comes out with Pop leading, he votes Pop.

I dont mind bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagon day 1, but this looks like he is trying act like he is participating, while adding nothing knew, scum hunting, or asking any questions.

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

Now Pop is "scummy" because he is attempting to deflect a Stef wagon, but he is also scummy because Stef is voting him. These are all silly stretches.

What are your current thoughts on Cybele, tar, skitzer, armlx, and now myself. Do you have a completed game where you were scum that you can provide a link for?...a good link when you were town and felt like you played well?

CKD, I have some questions for you.

Do you think populartajo is scum? Why or why not?
Do you think Stef is scum? Why or why not?
Do you think skitzer is scum? Why or why not?

<snip>

Erratus Apathos: In 245 you accuse CKD of "textbook chainsawing". I know two definitions for chainsawing and neither of them apply here. Could you clarify, please?

<snip>

I have a comment to make here, but I want Erratus to answer your question before I say anything on the subject.

[Tarhalindur]

First, a follow-up:

Ooba: continues to go only after me even if he has so little to go with. That tells me he either doesn't have any other leads on any1 else or he's trying to get more people to vote for a person who posted something that in some people's eyes is a scumtell. You haven't bothered to look at other players as well. What are your 3 top suspects and what are your arguments against them?

I have some comments to make here, but I will let Ooba respond to you first.

Now that ooba has answered...

1) I'm seeing a huge logical flaw in this post. You were ignoring the possibility that a town ooba simply thought that you were the player in the game who was most likely to be scum, in which case the correct play for him to make would be to try to convince other players that you are scum in order to get you lynched.

I find it interesting, however, that ooba did not explicitly use this line of reasoning in his answer. I'm noting his reply for later review.

Second:

he has a goon status and a Saddam-Sattan avatar we should think twice

You keep using that card after even i have told you it's a bad one.

Why do I get the nagging suspicion that this post is an attempt to guide a buddy?

Now, why are you asking this question?

I wanted to fill in some gaps in your "scumdar" ( which i presume is somewhat of a "radar" for scum ) and your priority changes.

The question about ooba and armlx had as purpose to let us know your status on the two. This info does help me because it helps knowing who you think is innocent considering i don't think that trusting anyone is a good idea and that it doesn't really help the town.

Interesting answer. The first part is the logically consistent answer I was expecting (forcing me to take a stand on armlx and ooba increases the chances of exposing inconsistencies in my position, and if, for the sake of argument, I turn out to be scum, my positions on other players would be useful for finding connections).

The second part of the answer is bad logic: knowing who a player thinks is town is actually a benefit for the scum, as it allows them to kill the player who is generally thought of as towniest, and the "trust no one" comment is a newb fallacy (I should know - I thought the same thing when I first started playing).

[icmode]

Instead of "trust no one", which can lead to crippling doubt from trying to keep in mind how every player could be scum, I prefer to use "be careful who you trust, and double-check your conclusions" as it allows you to focus on a few players who you think are far more likely to be scum than everyone else.

Also, while I'm in IC mode: your presumption about scumdar is correct.

[/icmode]

Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

I have no connection to Tajo. I have no idea why he started the "defense" case and i don't agree with it. I think that makes him suspicious.

For now switching my vote to Tajo since his continuous posts about me being a newbie and defense is scummy. If i die and flip town he could easily say "hey i defended him when none of you have!" and try to clear himself.

Vote Populartajo

... Why do I smell bussing?

FoS: Stef

[Tarhalindur]

THAR STOP PUSHING THIS STUPID CASE. EITHER YOU ARE SCUM OR YOU ARE JUST A HORRIBLE PLAYER.

The case on me is based in a bulshit assumption that I am defending Stef, who you assumed he was scum.

THE ONLY THING I WAS SAYING IS THAT HE HAS A GOON STATUS AND A SADAM/SATAN AVATAR. THEREFORE HES A NEWBIE. THEREFORE HES MORE PRONE TO MAKE SCUMTELLS. THEREFORE ITS IDIOTIC TO JUMP AGAINST HIM WITH SUCH SECURITY IN PAGE 5 OF A GAME WHEN NOT EVEN ALL THE PLAYERS HAD POSTED.
IF ARMLX THE EXPERIENCED HAD MADE THAT SCUMTELL I WOULD TOTATLLY HAVE VOTED FOR HIM. BUT I WOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT FOR STEF THE NEWBIE. I HAVE TO THINK TWICE BEFORE VOTING HIM. IF HE WAS NEWBIE SCUM THEN PRETTY SURE HE WOULD CONFIRM HIS STATUS LATER IN THE GAME.

Thats the only thing I said. Armlx and you are making a big case out of this. My commentary was just to BRING MY OPINION to the game and ITS MOTIVATED TO PREVENT NOT OPTYMAL WAGONS.

And I repeat, theres no motivation for scum to do that. If you think I was scum siding with a townie then what a horrible and idiotic play because I derailed a perfect wagon to bring all the attention to me. If you think scum defending scumpartner, then the person you should voting is him, not me.

The bussing theorys are shit shit shit. You think you found two scum in one day? YOU KNOW THIS GAME ISNT THAT EASY.

IF YOU WANT ME TO CLAIM NOW AND AVOID THIS STUPID CONVERSATION JUST TELL ME.

First: For the sake of argument, let's assume that your actions towards Stef do not constitute defense. What, then, do you consider defense? Please, enlighten me.

Second: If it does turn out that you are scum buddying up to a newb townie, it's not my fault that the play backfired horribly on you.

Oh yes, and I forgot the other obvious reason why scum might defend a newb townie: 1) if/when Stef comes turns out to be town, you would look better for taking the correct stance on that wagon.

(Also, the whole "there's no reason why scum would do that" is 100% unadulterated WIFOM.)

Third: The logical problem with your argument that I consider both situations plausible - I believe that you are likely to be scum REGARDLESS of Stef's alignment.

Consider a simplified situation: If we had two players (Player A and Player B), of which at least one was scum, and we knew that the only two possible outcomes were "Player A and Player B are both scum" and "Player A is scum and Player B is town" and each option had nonzero probability, then the best play is clearly to lynch Player A, as lynching Player A has a 100% probability of lynching scum and lynching Player B has a less than 100% probability of lynching scum. This logic holds in more complex situations so long as the probabilities of "Player A is town and Player B is scum" and "Player A and Player B are both town" is small compared to the two probabilities mentioned previously.

Fourth: Page 11 of a very active Day 1 is easily enough time for bussing to begin to appear, especially with a major wagon active (see Random Mafia 3 in general and killa seven's play in that game in particular, as the reason why I suspect that Stef may have been bussing is due to the similarity to killa's play in Random 3).

Fifth: I ask for claims at L-2. Unless I failed a spot check, you are not yet at L-2. (Also, didn't you claim you were a vanilla townie?)

[Tarhalindur]

<snip>

Erratus Apathos: In 245 you accuse CKD of "textbook chainsawing". I know two definitions for chainsawing and neither of them apply here. Could you clarify, please?

<snip>

I have a comment to make here, but I want Erratus to answer your question before I say anything on the subject.

Now that Erratus Apathos has defended himself...

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)

The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".

The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.

Let's see... by attacking BlakAdder for attacking populartajo CKD is indirectly defending populartajo, and CKD seems to find populartajo less scummy than other players. Looks like a textbook case of Chainsaw Defense to me...

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, quick thoughts:

Players who I think are probably scum, in order of decreasing scumminess: BlakAdder, Haschel Cedricson, Empking, Electra, Seraphim, Skitzer, Sierra

BlakAdder: I'd really like to add my own reasoning here, but CKD already covered all the good reasons why BlakAdder is scum.

Haschel Cedricson: Post 246 is scummy as all hell - it's even more blatantly Information Instead of Analysis than Skitzer's 180. Take a look at it and note how Haschel carefully summarizes what other players have done but draws almost NO conclusions from that summarization. (I'll go in-depth on 246 later on, it deserves a post of its own.) Also note the way he phrases his objection to tajo's offer to claim "for real this time" - he finds it "odd". That screams "scum who doesn't want to get pinned to a townie lynch" to me.

Empking: Reappeared after lurking through almost all of Day 1 to push the tajo bandwagon with no reasoning, noted BlakAdder's attempt to clear Stef but didn't follow up on it, makes a veiled attack on CKD for the tajo hammer, explicitly notes that night was good for town (YES, THAT IS A SCUMTELL), launches an attack on COD for the tajo hammer.

Electra: Appears suddenly after lurking through almost all of Day 1 to push populartajo to L-1 with no more reasoning than a simple "I agree with PLAYERNAME".

Seraphim: Post 236 is pure Mafia theory, and as far as I can tell he hasn't been scumhunting at all - in other words, Information Instead of Analysis.

Skitzer: Post 180 was already IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis) and looks very, very bad now that Stef has come up scum, has been extremely unwilling to take a firm position in this game.

Sierra: I still don't like how he avoided taking a side on Stef when Stef was pressed early on.

I doubt that all of these players are scum (given the nature of game balance, we should have no more than 5 scum remaining - the worst-case scenario should be one of 4 Mafia + Cult Recruit and 3 Mafia + SK + Cult Recruit), but they are the players I think we should be looking at.

Note 1: CKD looks pretty damn town to me right now, a few minor scummy actions notwithstanding. In particular, Stef's reaction to CKD's hammer does NOT look like bussing - it looks like trying to set up a second mislynch.

Note 2: I doubt we have two full Mafia groups, based mainly on the existence of a Cult. Mafia + SK sounds more plausible to me.

Vote: BlakAdder

[Tarhalindur]

Wait, hold on; before we decide to lynch Empking, don't you think it's possible he's a Jester? Would Dead Rikamaru be the type to add one to his game? Empking is, IMO, playing very much like a Jester. He's trying to get lynched, obviously; the insults are blantantly stupid and
everyone is following along in step.

Thanks for claiming scum, we'll deal with you tomorrow. (Seriously, bringing up a Jester on top of a pure-setup-speculation post at the beginning of the day and major lurkage thereafter? Like hell you're town.)

Also, a note to self for future games: Sucks To Be Us! is probably lynchworthy by itself.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP since that posted early...

Wait, hold on; before we decide to lynch Empking, don't you think it's possible he's a Jester? Would Dead Rikamaru be the type to add one to his game? Empking is, IMO, playing very much like a Jester. He's trying to get lynched, obviously; the insults are blantantly stupid and
everyone is following along in step.

Thanks for claiming scum. I'd push for your lynch today if not for the fact that Empking just claimed scum as well, but since he did claim scum we'll deal with you tomorrow. Seriously, bringing up a Jester on top of a pure-setup-speculation post at the beginning of the day and major lurkage thereafter? Like hell you're town.

As for Empking... he was scummy before for reasons I noted earlier, he got caught in a direct contradiction, and the only response he gives is an ad hominem attack... yeah, this is an easy case. I'll PBPA, if necessary, over the weekend.

Also, a note to self for future games: Sucks To Be Us! is probably lynchworthy by itself.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[Tarhalindur]

Empking, you are at lynch-2. CLAIM OR DIE. You have no other options.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm getting really tired of the utter bullshit that Empking enjoys spewing. I'm merely pointing out the possibility of the Jester because Empking's bullshit is so bullshitty that it's really illogical that he's not trying to get himself lynched.

And the reason I've been lurking is that most of the day 2 discussion has been concerning stuff that happened in day 1, material that I'm not as familiar or comfortable with as stuff that's been happening on day 2.

But, Emp, seriously...if you want to avoid a lynching, roleclaiming is in your best interests right now.

Sorry, you're still scum (presumably Empking's buddy) and you still die tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

Other than Tar,

Nobody

has any logic that they're able to back up by quotes.

L-2 isn't some magical number where you're forced to abandon all logic.

The logic is that if you are at Lynch -2 (Lynch -1 if the game has ten players or less, which doesn't apply here) then you are obligated by Mafia norms to claim (since the claim is the last piece of information that may indicate that you are not the lynch for the day). If you do not, then you need to be lynched. (If you do, then you may still be lynched, depending on the claim.)

[Tarhalindur]

Ah, you're operating off a false impression of mafia norms. You're very wrong.

For the sake of argument, I'll let this slide for the moment. Now, Empking, if you are not going to claim at L-2, then when are you going to claim?

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not going to claim.

I thought you were going to say that. Doesn't matter, because that IS your death warrant - you're either Jester or scum, and I'm happy to lynch either one.

LOCK ON: Empking

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: he's not Jester or scum (because Jester IS scum) - he's just scum.

[Tarhalindur]

Is lock on vote?

It's a super confirm vote. It means I will, barring exceptional circumstances, continue to vote for you until either you are dead or I am dead.

[Tarhalindur]

Also, somebody drop the hammer and dispense some indiscriminate justice.

[Tarhalindur]

Remember hammerer.

I'll turn up town and you'll have to deal with people asking why you hammered with no reasons.

Nice appeal to emotion there.

*waits for a player who isn't already voting Empking to come along*

[Tarhalindur]

*facepalm*... Avenge me, my brothers!

Go town!