MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

[MathBlade]

Damn day open is quiet y’all. Where is everyone?

A50 we are Gonna have words post game. Wtf was that self vote?

I am trying to figure out if like you thought Titus+DGB paranoia or if you were just pissed at the wagon?

Like you thought earlier it was me/Wheme/Xlos. I know I am town and Xlos is dead.

Like this game is …wtf?

[MathBlade]

WTF was my reaction to being alive today.

Assuming you’re town I think smart scum doesn’t kill you. That would make Xlos unlimmable and this is elo. Given Xlos was the kill they must have believed you weren’t a one shot.

Assuming you’re scum well…then scum killing you is dumb.

Like the Jake kill seems dumb.

How do we have smart and dumb scum?

I looked over the game and I am just confused.

[MathBlade]

I mean imho murdercat slipped PR like I said earlier so that would be a smart kill if my theory is right
T3 pretty much screamed “I am the fuckin” rolecop in his intro and then claimed flavor so….?

To me those are just like duh kills and aren’t player indicative. It makes me think scum weren’t suspected D1/D2 but that’s just gut.

Who do you think is scum?

[MathBlade]

A50 getting turbo launched was p dumb. Whenever I've run into a pissed off A50 it's because he's been right. Or at least he's ended up being right. That means dgb and Titus are town. Math and wheme are the team. Which makes sense
No way that hood was full town. Unless Ircher is just messing with us there's no way that 2 p hood both had the same role and alignment.

I'm never voting Titus or dgb.

Now i understand why wheme wasn't resolved first. Math was too busy running interference.

A50 told us wheme was scum.

I want to hear from Titus before I vote though.

Wtf is this?
Uhm no. Almost50 gets angry when he doesn’t understand or not in control. Sometimes he is right sometimes not. He does blatant manipulation as scum.

The fact he asked Titus if she was scum and immediately self hammered makes me think A50 thought Titus was scum.

Like I keep running back to Titus+DGB by kills and play but that post is so bad and Xlos death means DGB likely town unless that kill was planned in advance.

Titus where is your VCA?

[MathBlade]

I'm not voting Math unless it gets to 3p lylo.
I'm not inclined to vote DGB.

That leaves Wheme or Galron.

This is an AND.

I am town. If you say you’re not voting me (which the only reason not to vote me is that I am town if you think I am scum you vote me). If you are “not inclined” to vote DGB means you’re townreading it.

If you don’t think it’s Wheme and Galron then you’re not actually positing anything useful and this is hot air or DGB is your buddy.

[MathBlade]

WTF was my reaction to being alive today.

Exactly. It's just bad scum play. The one person who kept talking about a supposed vig was probably more afraid of that than you. I thought Math was tossing around vig just to create a muddle, but it looks to me like he probably actually believed it and thought it was xlos when with all the power that's been shown a vig would just break the game. Especially after you claimed multi shot.

It's not bad scum play. DGB gets no extra result tonight and keeping it alive means paranoia around it. It's lylo regardless. Meanwhile Xlos was never getting voted out today, even if it was lylo.

It’s posts like this that make me wonder if Titus is scum.
She’s better at mech reasoning as town.

Assume DGB is town and shot.
Then Xlos is in the game as confirmed town (because let’s be real godfather while possible is not probable)
When confirmed town is in the game scum cannot manipulate elo and it’s out of their hands.

Xlos had to be the kill if DGB is town to keep elo flexibility and Xlos has to be the kill to protect DGB if it is scum.

Xlos was pretty much good as flipped soon as A50 hammered unless scum which then is an easy solve between DGB and Xlos.

Pedit: Kinda sure we have to hit scum here Titus. Not sure what sitting on where you think I am wrong helps if you’re town.

I am going to bed but all y’all are sus.

[MathBlade]

I did a skim and it’s late so the only non mech related reason I can think of is reads.
But if it’s reads then why wait?

I am just going to bed and will reread T3’s ISO with clean mind.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Claim posts

That seems like not a good thing to say before someone claims it but ok

by the way if we could end days with a prime number of pages that would be very great thank you

Is this the post you're talking about?

Yeah
Like somehow this got ignored but T3's post didn't
Makes me feel weird in a way

I tend to not want to elaborate on claim related things

(Town would have backed off once they realized why I put Umlaut on the list by mistake)

I'm not backing off because I think choosing the first three people who posted is a really easy way to fake reads

Where in here is it implied that's why I originally voted you?

I voted you because your first statement sounded like you were trying to make fake content. If you weren't I think you were more likely to explain the reasoning for your claim. The fact that you didn't bother to check if umlaut had posted anything while trying make it seem like your reads were based on content when referring to nom made it worse.

There is no way this wagon on me is real, these votes are awful and trying to run me up to a claim is terrible

My guess is that based on Murdercat's ISO Murdercat slipped he was a PR of some kind. VT's don't heavily worry about being put to a claim at L -1. My guess is that scum though to kill him soon as 213 dropped.

Well I honestly hope you're eliminated because I don't think you're town, your reason was just sooo baaaad.

Contrast this with Flea's response. It's a generic "your reason was just soooo bad". It doesn't have a fear of PR at all in it.

MurderCat PR question

[MathBlade]

By the way, anyone who claims a type of Modified Rolecop is confirmed town. This information I have from somewhere that I will not elaborate on furter.

This is a common way PRs claim or maybe just common for me.
I do something like “I am pretty sure a (PR here) would do (some action I did)”
Or I have a really strong gut that blah would be checked.

This way I can steer town in the right direction without claiming.

Scum team knew Nom was Derivative and when T3 claimed Second Derivative or Second Derivative Test it’s likely that they went hey Nom is our/a cop and T3 claimed Second Derivative so probably rolecop when combined together. I think T3 probably died because of role but it’s possible for a reads reason maybe but role to me makes more sense

[MathBlade]

So if you and DGB are scum then you’d have probably killed him for reads? Like I am not looking at another game at midnight to be fair so just going to take it on your word. Did T3 give a reason for lying?

[MathBlade]

Not sure why you think T3 was killed except reads, but killing someone who townreads you incorrectly can solidify it.

“For reads” really should have been “for gamestate manipulation” which is about leaving the best impression.

I don’t see how that clears anyone or supports anyone as “for reads/gamestate manipulation” can mean anyone is scum.

If we ignore that Murdercat was likely killed for PR then say for reads and look at the last few posts
DGB scum kills Murdercat to make others look scummy so it has time to execute its gambit.
Slimer (my slot) kills Murdercat because suspected. (Not scum here just devils advocate)

It becomes meaningless unless you can get inside how player X plays scum and why they do kills.
That’s why the kills don’t make sense to me especially Jake.
I can’t tie a consistent narrative from endgame to beginning for anyone but teams are more likely if it’s not reads related reasons.
So it’s more likely not reads related reasons.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

No. No. Fuck that. I'm not taking your shit right now. You don't get to decide ifbother people are being genuine or not.

If you assume scum were always killing because of suspicion then DGB is scum here.
Then you get DGB with me(incorrectly) or Galron

Which would make Murdercat’s reads mostly wrong which defeats the Murdercat was killed for reads argument unless frame job.

So like some players have to be killed for not reads reasons

[MathBlade]

All things considered I'm very happy with tonight's events. My scumteam last night was A50 + {Titus, Jake, DGB}. Now Jake is town and I'm feeling much better about DGB now that their claim isn't 1-shot cop. Plus, between the breadcrumb and the reasoning against mathblade in 1517, I think that the claim is real. Particularly

But then the next day I thought, if MathBlade, is scum, he knows I fakeclaimed 1-shot, figured with the even-night rolecop flipped and the word ODD in my first post, that I was an odd-night cop. And MathBlade!scum would NK me for sure.

This kind of content takes a fairly high amount of meditation on the fact that he is an odd night rolecop to achieve, very towny.

Also the clear on me makes me feel a lot better. Last day phase Toog said something along the lines of "you are terrible town since you're killing me and then A50", but really it's worse than that, since if A50 is scum, in all likelihood I would be next (setting up 3 miselims, a terrifically bad result). Now the worst case is a bit better. But that's the extent of my confidence on him, we shall see if I am terrible town or good town soon (probably). VOTE: Almost50

If this works out we confirm Wheme which puts us in a winning position since I think me, DGB, and Galron are already almost certainly town.

pedit: Hmm turns out you can move your vote onto people by wishing them harm (Titus is on Wheme in the votecount)

Looking forward to hearing your theory.

The last reads Xlos gave was before A50’s flip.

Xlos thought DGB+Galron are town and Wheme /A50 lock scum.

If we keep that opinion then Xlos would think all scum in you, me, Wheme.

Going to assume you’re not scum claiming so any theory you propose that’s reads based is Me+Wheme
Which then goes against Murdercat so like

???

[MathBlade]

If the goal was to shoot based on DGB suspicion, you would have taken the bullet instead of A50 given you're more vocal and no one was listening to Jake.

I think Jake was shot due to scum thinking he was the vig.
I did several signals to him and outright asked him to shoot DGB.

[MathBlade]

All things considered I'm very happy with tonight's events. My scumteam last night was A50 + {Titus, Jake, DGB}. Now Jake is town and I'm feeling much better about DGB now that their claim isn't 1-shot cop. Plus, between the breadcrumb and the reasoning against mathblade in 1517, I think that the claim is real. Particularly

But then the next day I thought, if MathBlade, is scum, he knows I fakeclaimed 1-shot, figured with the even-night rolecop flipped and the word ODD in my first post, that I was an odd-night cop. And MathBlade!scum would NK me for sure.

This kind of content takes a fairly high amount of meditation on the fact that he is an odd night rolecop to achieve, very towny.

Also the clear on me makes me feel a lot better. Last day phase Toog said something along the lines of "you are terrible town since you're killing me and then A50", but really it's worse than that, since if A50 is scum, in all likelihood I would be next (setting up 3 miselims, a terrifically bad result). Now the worst case is a bit better. But that's the extent of my confidence on him, we shall see if I am terrible town or good town soon (probably). VOTE: Almost50

If this works out we confirm Wheme which puts us in a winning position since I think me, DGB, and Galron are already almost certainly town.

pedit: Hmm turns out you can move your vote onto people by wishing them harm (Titus is on Wheme in the votecount)

Looking forward to hearing your theory.

The last reads Xlos gave was before A50’s flip.

Xlos thought DGB+Galron are town and Wheme /A50 lock scum.

If we keep that opinion then Xlos would think all scum in you, me, Wheme.

Going to assume you’re not scum claiming so any theory you propose that’s reads based is Me+Wheme
Which then goes against Murdercat so like

???

Xlos was killed because LoL elo clear, not for his reads.

I agree. But you said you hadn’t looked at who Xlos suspected.
I did for you to help solidify that.

[MathBlade]

I agree. But you said you hadn’t looked at who Xlos suspected.
I did for you to help solidify that.

My read is pretty solid as to why everyone died. It leaves me with two possible scumteams.

Are you at least willing to lay out those teams?

And that last post is a pretty backhanded way of calling me scum. Lmao
You don’t think anyone but me thought Vig existed.
You think my belief scum killed for vig existing is accurate
Ergo me scum? Like unless I read that wrong.

It’s hard to synergize with you when I don’t know where you are and we have to agree if you’re town because elo

[MathBlade]

Okay how can I get you beyond the check work point? I am like not seeing the hints at all. I apologize if it is just my dense ness here or maybe I didn’t sleep enough?

I am struggling with what you’re putting down ATM and don’t want to clutter the thread because if you’re town that makes things hard on whoever the last Townie is.

Pedit: I think it does but that was also before I was in the game. Maybe I just play scum so radically differently than whoever scum is I can’t understand?

[MathBlade]

I am not finding your premises though. If I could find those I can piece it together
You’ve done NKA but I don’t see what the premises are from it.

And I mean fair.

If I had to decide right now I would be an obstinate person and wouldn’t and see who voted me for not voting. This is elo. I don’t just “decide” things. I generally use votes and who reads who where to contribute to that because scum usually don’t (lalalalala redacted or scum might do lalalala to throw it off)

Again I don’t have a team. I am just confused.
I have theories but each one of them has a gaping flaw.
So I am going to use DGB + Wheme posting to solidify if you’re scum or not first.

[MathBlade]

I'm curious. What's your gaping flaw in DGB + Galron?

Why was nom so hard to elim?

DGB posted nothing but spam Nom scum.
Galron post wise was influential.

It doesn’t seem to match D2 play.

[MathBlade]

Uninfluential* autocorrect you suck

[MathBlade]

I'm curious. What's your gaping flaw in DGB + Galron?

Why was nom so hard to elim?

DGB posted nothing but spam Nom scum.
Galron post wise was uninfluential.

It doesn’t seem to match D2 play.

Town resisted the nom elimination. Town can just be dumb.

Xlos A50 and myself all resisted the nom elimination to some extent. In a DGB plus Galron scenario, all Galron has to do is stay off and nom is hard to lim because of the pride of everyone involved.

I guess it’s possible but I am trying to figure out what’s more probable.

By play ignoring kills that’s you.
But with kills and ignoring play that’s not you.

So hence my clusterfuck of confusion.
Usually at least one of those lines up in both categories I can look at (lalalalala) and find the other scum.

Pedit: Yes Toog and A50 fought the elim but I find it hard to believe that all of the resisters were town. I mean if I was scum sheeping a resister would make that elim not happen.

[MathBlade]

I think I would only half claim. I want to see if I am functionally a VT or not.

I will go back and look at Galron votes.

Off the top of my head I don’t think Galron has claimed. I don’t have my notes in front of me.

[MathBlade]

I think I would only half claim. I want to see if I am functionally a VT or not.

I will go back and look at Galron votes.

Off the top of my head I don’t think Galron has claimed. I don’t have my notes in front of me.

No it's elo. Everyone fullclaims. There's situations where town can lie about a claim, but everyone should fullclaim.

I plan on it but if pressed now before everyone else has it gives scum an out.

So if I am made first I only go half.

Then after everyone else I do the remainder.

[MathBlade]

K I popcorn Galron.

I have hinted PR since post one but I think I might be functionally VT.

[MathBlade]

How so? Talk me through that.

[MathBlade]

If you’re right and it is a scumslip, it would have been a scumslip that could have easily been pushed on D4. The fact no one did means it’s likely not a scum slip and is a saved argument.

I can’t say more without ruining what you’re going for but I don’t think that is possible to be a scumslip.
It may be possible that Galron is scum (that is one of my less flawed teams) but I don’t think that’s a scumslip if this makes sense?

Sorry for vagueness

[MathBlade]

No influencer.

Galron and Wheme has a distinct lack of influencer. To be fair this is one of my less flawed teams but it’s unlikely Wheme if scum makes it this far without a defender due to the sheer amount of FoS’s he’s had. Galron just admittedly is null due to the absence of anything memorable.

Pedit: Wrong game? I am just going to pretend that doesn’t exist?

Pedit: Titus check your thread

[MathBlade]

What do you make of the lack of influencer problem?

[MathBlade]

Oh no! I am in jail! I guess I can go with that.

[MathBlade]

I really haven’t been giving this game any attention and I apologize it has been a confusing game.

Math/Titus how well can you two read eachother

Honestly, not well. I think Math is tonally town but I am waivering based on me being alive.

This.

What if scum kept us both alive because we tend to bicker?

Pretty much Titus is always in my sus pool unless I have a mod clear but by treating her as a townread in elo if she is town win win and if not she’s way more likely to fuck up and slip her buddy.

[MathBlade]

For example on this page alone Titus+Wheme becomes very probable.

Titus has a theory of Wheme + Galron she is pursuing and says everyone should mass claim yet doesn’t push Wheme for a PR/VT claim.

So this tells me that she’s not hunting Wheme to see if informed neighbor is the only thing he has which is sus
And if Titus+Wheme then Titus has been doing all the kills

[MathBlade]

For example on this page alone Titus+Wheme becomes very probable.

Titus has a theory of Wheme + Galron she is pursuing and says everyone should mass claim yet doesn’t push Wheme for a PR/VT claim.

So this tells me that she’s not hunting Wheme to see if informed neighbor is the only thing he has which is sus
And if Titus+Wheme then Titus has been doing all the kills

Wheme+Galron is a theory but it's not my favorite based on T3 dying.

Still same problem why aren’t you asking Wheme about his role.
Even if a theory isn’t a “favorite” that doesn’t mean you don’t investigate it.

[MathBlade]

For example on this page alone Titus+Wheme becomes very probable.

Titus has a theory of Wheme + Galron she is pursuing and says everyone should mass claim yet doesn’t push Wheme for a PR/VT claim.

So this tells me that she’s not hunting Wheme to see if informed neighbor is the only thing he has which is sus
And if Titus+Wheme then Titus has been doing all the kills

Because I already full claimed?

You did A claim. That’s all it is.

In a Titus town world I don’t expect her to take anything claimed for granted.

[MathBlade]

It’s pretty obvious that you were neighbors with A50 yes.

Informed? Maybe?
Other things? No fuckin clue.

A50 scumread you pretty hard.
Why did you not use the hood if you’re town?

Pedit: Confused? This post is me talking with Titus assuming kills were about reads? I don’t get what you’re arguing here.

[MathBlade]

Like my entire point of that is I don’t get why scum were killing who they did and Titus’s argument didn’t make sense.
So I started with her premise that players were killed for reads reasons and reached a logical contradiction?

[MathBlade]

So what exactly is DGB saying here Titus?

I don’t get it.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

No. No. Fuck that. I'm not taking your shit right now. You don't get to decide ifbother people are being genuine or not.

If you assume scum were always killing because of suspicion then DGB is scum here.
Then you get DGB with me(incorrectly) or Galron

Which would make Murdercat’s reads mostly wrong which defeats the Murdercat was killed for reads argument unless frame job.

So like some players have to be killed for not reads reasons

FINALLY

I was waiting for the scum to out themselves as to why Jake was killed.

I didn't say a thing the morning of, because I felt I was being FRAMED, and that the NK was the sign of a

social

gamestate manipulative scum team more than a

mech

manipulative scum team.

Over and over MathBlade has been throwing little hints what we should look at why Jake was NK'd, but no one took the bait - especially not me.

At last someone (MathBlade) blurted out that Jake was killed for his "reads" - which was no read at all, it was just Jake being angry with me for calling out his trollish ways. He was vig bait, not scum NK bait. That's why the NK always felt soooooo manipulative to me.

DGB

How did you go from I can’t be scum to
I have to be scum for doing NKA on Jake’s death?

[MathBlade]

Didn't I say Jake was killed for opposing A50? Let me check.

It could be a reason, but it's more of a sideways hit than a direct hit.

MathBlade, who replaced in a scummy, replacement-rich slot, has been making cases that I'm scum every day. One day, in anger, Jake votes me, and finds himself dead'ed in the morning.

It just fits into MathBlade's day time agenda so tightly.

So you’re arguing that I as scum,
Do not kill the player who is extremely paranoid of me and who could guilty me,
And instead kill Jake?

When scum!me (not true but hypothetically) knows that elimming a claimed cop (assuming you’re town) is an uphill battle so hard as to be nigh on impossible

When in that world if you check me then even if I elim you I would be outed scum the next day.

Like what?
This does not make sense

And even if I was scum again I never kill you after you claim an inno.

Like what?

This does not compute

[MathBlade]

You can argue that I am scum all you want.

I get I replaced into a scummy slot.
I do that all the time. Sometimes the slot is scum sometimes it’s town sometimes it’s 3P.

At least make an argument that makes sense.
Otherwise if you’re town you’re going to lead it astray.

[MathBlade]

Galron+
I see where Galron started with T3 but I don’t think T3 is scum because it’s kinda dumb to claim informed early if scum. Yes usually informed is scum only but I think there’s some weird shit going on here. I like most of their progression and while I disagree with their logic on Nom I can see how someone would get there.

This is a lot of saying nothing.

On the contrary.

For Wheme I was saying his lack of content is unacceptable and still is.
This is me saying I think T3 is the rolecop. It doesn’t say anything about Galron except that I see his logic.

The fact you see it as nothing is irrelevant.

[MathBlade]

Yes yes I tried to suggest other players were rolecop in the wall to give T3 a chance. Yes yes that’s scummy

So yeah considering claims forcing scum to kill a VT is a good thing

[MathBlade]

Titus before you vote Galron do look at the read wall DGB mentioned again

And this comment has nothing to do with Galron but I think it explains some of my responses.

[MathBlade]

If you’re town you also wanted mass claim.

Bad form to vote before that happens

[MathBlade]

What is tempting you to vote before that happens?

Why are you speeding through this?

[MathBlade]

Because I see all roads leading to scum Galron.

Okay then let’s work off that assumption. Two types of conversation:

Why do you think all roads lead to scum Galron?

Assume Galron is scum and the why above is accurate:

Who is scum with Galron?

[MathBlade]

In other words if you’re pigeonholed into thinking Galron is scum (not using that to knock your opinion but if you’re debating voting him before the standard elo rules then it’s a tunnel right or wrong)

Then this logic should stand up whatever outstanding claims are left

[MathBlade]

Because I see all roads leading to scum Galron.

Okay then let’s work off that assumption. Two types of conversation:

Why do you think all roads lead to scum Galron?

Assume Galron is scum and the why above is accurate:

Who is scum with Galron?

I'm not answering 1 until Galron shows and claims.

I don't know who is scum with Galron but if kills are social kills then I know who isn't scum with Galron.

And that’s what scares me.

Assume Galron claims VT. You can frame an argument based on that.
Assume Galron claims PR. You can frame an argument based on that.

If you’re scum then Galron would be where you planned to end up.
If you’re town and you think Galron is scum independent of the claim then you should be able to explain why Galron is scum without it.

If you’re unsure then not all roads lead to Galron being scum and somehow you’re being tunnelled.

Does this make sense?

[MathBlade]

A50 getting turbo launched was p dumb. Whenever I've run into a pissed off A50 it's because he's been right. Or at least he's ended up being right. That means dgb and Titus are town. Math and wheme are the team. Which makes sense
No way that hood was full town. Unless Ircher is just messing with us there's no way that 2 p hood both had the same role and alignment.

I'm never voting Titus or dgb.

Now i understand why wheme wasn't resolved first. Math was too busy running interference.

A50 told us wheme was scum.

I want to hear from Titus before I vote though.

Pretty sure Galron said it’s me and Wheme. He said he’s never voting you and Titus.

[MathBlade]

I think my response ruins what you’re going for if you’re town but let me just say I don’t think anything would change here.

[MathBlade]

I think it does or at least what I want to see out of Galron. I am going to cook lunch now. Be back later.

Pedit: I decide by who is scum with them or just don’t decide at all and it’s you and Titus.

[MathBlade]

How does anyone decide who is scummier between WhemeStar and Galron?

NKA. What you should have used to catch me in Deco.

No offense Titus but when you’re scum your kills make as much sense as a 100 page proof.

[MathBlade]

To borrow your (and apparently DGB’s phrase) what’s the difference between bad player jail and scum here?

[MathBlade]

What do you mean by that?

[MathBlade]

Galron's trajectory, which I quoted makes no sense. He jumps from why are we not eliminating Toog to Toog makes no sense.

I agree it doesn’t make sense.

However Toog seemed to be a topic of conversation throughout the prior posts.

I think it’s scummy but I don’t think it’s a smoking gun.

[MathBlade]

See the most likely teams to me are DGB Galron
You and Wheme
And Wheme and Galron

Slight rim shot of DGB Wheme but I don’t see that as likely

So the more you push Galron with scummy things but not a smoking gun the more nervous I become

[MathBlade]

Fair enough. Well deserved. I just finished poppyseed chicken yay!

[MathBlade]

Math, why are you trusting so hard to defend me? Why are you so invested in getting Titus to strengthen her scum read on me? That's exactly what you're doing and it's scummy af. Set me up as scum in her eyes, strengthen that read for her, then the vote, gg. Same technique I saw you use at least twice since you've been back. Can't remember the game but one you were working on Drew or mena I think and ended up pulling a scum save that never should have happened. Here it's like deja Vu. You have no business trying to defend me. Let Titus come to her own conclusions. You planting your little seeds can stop.

See that’s the thing. I am not “defending you” in the traditional sense.

Titus and you both said I have. I said it’s not the smoking gun.

Making her elaborate helps me to read her to see if she actually believes what she is saying.

I use lots of techniques as scum and me being scum in the past is not an argument as to why I am scum now.

I think if you’re scum then it’s likely you think Wheme and I are the most likely elims.

You say you won’t vote DGB or Titus for two reasons (assuming you’re scum)
1) They are both town and if you can get them to do what you want.
2) One of them is your buddy.

I don’t see a town reason for deciding “I am going to sheep A50” today.

[MathBlade]

My theory:

Galron is lockscum because of the kills. While T3 never mentions Galron, both Murdercat and Jake's last mention of Galron is suspicion.

N1:
Murdercat was not likely shot for his townreads because he doesn't go into detail about his townreads.
This means he was killed for his role or his scumreads or unlimmable.

At no point did Murdercat slip he was a PR, so that's out.

<< Note my disagreeement here.

Unlimmable is a thing, but there were other townies who were unlimmable. Murdercat would (in theory) be limmable if the right townies died. So I doubt for this reason.
This leaves Murdercat being killed for his scumreads.
Murdercat scumread A50, Galron, and Mathblade's slot (although Math wasn't in it yet).

This gives major scumpoints to Galron and Math.

This is nothing new. I acknowledge I look bad if Murdercat was killed for reads. I just don’t think that was the case. I do not like how I have refuted this multiple times and people who you townread get this argument and you just ignore it

N2

Why was T3 killed?

Two schools of thought here.

1) T3 was real claiming. This instantly clears DGB in my mind if this approach is adopted. I don't think scum!DGB kills town!T3 based on a roleclaim ever in that scenario. That leaves Galron, Wheme, and Math. Math would buy any claim in the thread and not consider it a joke. I don't know Galron well enough to think if he buys a claim but I think most players do. Wheme's the same. If this is the theory, then two of Wheme/Math/Galon are scum. Math and Galron appear again.

You really really should see my role before making blanket statements like this

2) T3 was killed based on his reads. This narrows down the pool less, but is more consistent with the scumteam's play. Shooting T3 because he's the only slot that would townclear Wheme gives scum dramatically more control over the day play. That also means Wheme is town. That leaves Math/Galron/DGB as scum. There's the rub, Math/Galron again.

Why are you ignoring the fact T3’s flavor is similar to Nom’s? Why does this instantly clear DGB to you? This gives more questions than answers?

Night 3:

All our PRs had outed at this point, so Jake was not outed for his role.

All PRs had crumbed. I still am not outed but am functionally VT

Jake still had some miselimination potential. This is why his kill was much more shocking.
Thus, Jake was likely killed for the gamestate.
He's the only slot that objected to an A50 elimination. Securing that elimination fast means that scum essentially get three nightkills for the price of one.
That makes a Jake kill worth it.
Plus, it keeps a mostly wrong towncore (using town in the generic sense not saying the core is locktown) intact.

Again I disagree with this on why Jake was killed as discussed earlier

Night 4
Xlos was killed because unlimmable in lylo. This isn't rocketscience and eliminates no one.

Yay something I agree with!

So based on nightkills the favored team is Galron and Mathblade (T3 was killed based on role here), or DGB and Galron (T3 was killed for gamestate instead) or Math plus Galron (T3 was killed based on his Wheme townread).

Then we look at the gamestate.

Wheme's largely been silenced.

No he hasn’t? He’s been inactive.

Toog roleblocked Galron who immediately voted him. It suggests Galron knew he was blocked, but obviously wasn't the scumkiller outright. If this is correct, scum!Galron is claiming a vig of somesort. 1 shot vig most likely. This would pocket Mathblade if he is town, but I don't think scum is mechanically smart enough to do that. It could be a coincidence, but I'm suspecting it isn't. Town had multiple investigatives, it would make sense that scum would too. Putting only one rolecop in the game to find a town rolecop, doctor, and cop makes no sense.

Especially with my role Titus. This is why I think DGB+Wheme has to contain a scum

If Galron is another investigative, he's shared no results and this much investigative power is a scumclaim between him and DGB if not both.

DGB's odd night doctor claim. It could be scum, but it effectively crumbed in its first post. This suggests it was an actual claim and not a fake. There's a possibility it could be a fake claim, but I doubt it.

DGB's claim was oddly resisted. This suggests one scum on and one scum off. Given almost all the off spaces are flipped town. This suggest Galron or Wheme scum. Again, Galron is back. The scum on the wagon would likely be Mathblade but it is possible we had both scum off given the massive town resistance. So the Math read is considerably weaker.

Overall, this leaves us with Galron as obvscum. Math as a likier partner and DGB and Wheme being outside shots (particularly if T3 was killed based on my theory).

Then we look at the early Toog vote. DGB was primed to vote Toog. I'd be voting there. Two votes. Galron may or may not be aware he was voted. He votes the Toog wagon as soon as possible for these reasons. When it's not the default elimination, he looks for a way off.

I rest my case.

I get Galron scum or Wheme scum or maybe both but I think your case is fundamentally flawed.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

[MathBlade]

What if, wild guess, scum have a redirector/bus drivor?

That's something scum would say.

I don’t think so. I think Jake knows when to holster his trolling and when to town and I think I am starting to see it.

I just hope he can see what I can enable or could depending on how he sees English/history or whatever

This is where I said “Hey Jake I think you’re the vig”

Vigs have guns and can holster them.

Vig enabler

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Ffs Titus this is not a normal

[MathBlade]

Hence why if you pushed me to claim before Galron I would claim the enabler half.

I didn’t want to give Galron an out if he was scum.

Pedit: I don’t know about sense but pissing me off yes.

[MathBlade]

It’s quite possible scum!DGB or scum!you saw that and shot Jake thinking he was a vig.

[MathBlade]

So my POE basically puts it as galron confirmed scum and idk who else

So in other words you’re a direct clone of Titus which is not sus at all /s

[MathBlade]

So my POE basically puts it as galron confirmed scum and idk who else

So in other words you’re a direct clone of Titus which is not sus at all /s

I mean it’s a pretty easy poe with 2 scum and 5 people

It’s actually not. We pretty much have to solve the game here. 5 player elo is one of the most stressful because we have to have the right votes. If we don’t then we fuck up 3P elo.

Getting a scum means we survive.

The problem is you and Titus are pretty much clones.
Galron is pretty much a null entity most of the game
And DGB might as well win for active lurking.

[MathBlade]

It’s quite possible scum!DGB or scum!you saw that and shot Jake thinking he was a vig.

I think we all had deduced no vig before you had outed, barring a scum vig (which is what would take this game from normal status). No extra shot had appeared both nights and no one claimed their shot had been interfered with.

I think scum ignored your crumbs because they figured it was impossible and you were stuck up on random roles that didn't exist because of your role.

Town made the same mistake in Deco. DGB never shoots Jake for the reason you describe.

I disagree with this based on what it did in Yellowstone. I also disagree that you don’t kill him either.

Pedit: Titus that’s usually done by fake voting first.

It’s not done by thread pull. Because scum have a vested interest in not talking about themselves

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Why do you instantly believe me here Titus?

[MathBlade]

Okay.

Break down all three worlds Titus:
Assume I am vig enabler and town
Assume I am vig enabler and scum
Assume I am not vig enabler and scum

What does that mean?
(Yes logically there is a fourth world that I am town and lying about vig enabler but just no lmao include it if you want)

[MathBlade]

Okay.

Break down all three worlds Titus:
Assume I am vig enabler and town
Assume I am vig enabler and scum
Assume I am not vig enabler and scum

What does that mean?
(Yes logically there is a fourth world that I am town and lying about vig enabler but just no lmao include it if you want)

Your claim doesn't change my Galron analysis at all.

That’s not what I asked Titus.

In elo the entire game should be solved.

I asked about how you read me, not Galron.

[MathBlade]

Okay.

Break down all three worlds Titus:
Assume I am vig enabler and town
Assume I am vig enabler and scum
Assume I am not vig enabler and scum

What does that mean?
(Yes logically there is a fourth world that I am town and lying about vig enabler but just no lmao include it if you want)

Your claim doesn't change my Galron analysis at all.

That’s not what I asked Titus.

In elo the entire game should be solved.

I asked about how you read me, not Galron.

My read on you is that you're not the flip for today.

I disagree that we have to solve the entire game today. It's easier to get all town to agree on one scum than all town to agree on the exact puzzle. Plus we could get a bus today.

Titus you’re better than this.

You think Galron is lock scum because of the kills.

You say I am the most likely partner.

If I cannot be a partner anymore then who do you scumread with Galron?

This isn’t hard Titus.

If you can confTown two people in 5 player elo scum never get control of it again.

This isn’t hard.

So again I ask you, what is your read on me?

[MathBlade]

So no deep analysis? Titus everyone has expressed a willingness to vote Galron. That isn’t sus to you?

Scum only need one more miselim today and it’s over. Town should be thinking in twos yet you’re focused on one scum.

I have provided lots of evidence that your case is wrong and you overlook it. (Don’t get me wrong Galron is in my PoE)

I think town!Titus tried to figure out what my alignment is.

You seem like you’ve checked out and Galron is the miselim you want.

[MathBlade]

That’s precisely why we should have fake voting to determine who votes first (which likely will hit Galron).
If Galron is town and his reads are bad (which I am town so I know they are) then him voting = instant loss.

I agree getting all town on board to vote a scum is hard. Then why is it so easy to push Galron? My goal is also to get us to day 6 and the proper elim tomorrow as well. The best way to do that is to find the entire team. You could be bussing Galron here and hope people go elsewhere. There’s a lot of possibilities. If we can confirm two townies (or likely townies) before votes fly around odds are we win.

If Galron is scum and I am town what is the harm of you acknowledging this before voting Galron or making him vote? Again you’re rushing.

If we force scum to have no good kill choice tomorrow becomes a freakin cakewalk.

And yes I provided evidence you just don’t respond then post a case of literally the exact same shit. It’s like you’re a brick wall.

[MathBlade]

I use lots of techniques as scum and me being scum in the past is not an argument as to why I am scum now.

Then why did you do exactly this to me?

There is a difference. Recognizing gambits you have ran in the past and pointing it out is an argument. That’s meta. It’s deeply specific and relevant. Here Galron is saying because I replaced in and use wordy words I am scum. This is literally recycling what was said before. It’s “he replaced into a scummy slot”.

[MathBlade]

Toog roleblocked Galron who immediately voted him. It suggests Galron knew he was blocked, but obviously wasn't the scumkiller outright. If this is correct, scum!Galron is claiming a vig of somesort. 1 shot vig most likely.

wait what where

I don’t think this is accurate.
Toog was already an outed roleblocker before this point. If Galron was scum and knew he was blocked why vote Toog? I mean he’d know Toog blocked him.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Could be scum vig enabler, too.

Go down that role path.

Assume I am scum vig enabler
Scum have a one shot flavor cop and one shot doctor

Against (assuming your town and Wheme is town)
Odd night cop
Even night role cop
Two shot roleblocker
Full shot doctor
And two people in a hood together with no scum in it.

This is what you think?

[MathBlade]

Toog was already an outed roleblocker before this point. If Galron was scum and knew he was blocked why vote Toog? I mean he’d know Toog blocked him.

Where did Galron imply that he knew he had been roleblocked?

That was an IF. It was assuming Titus’s argument that Galron knew he was blocked was true

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Could be scum vig enabler, too.

Go down that role path.

Assume I am scum vig enabler
Scum have a one shot flavor cop and one shot doctor

Against (assuming your town and Wheme is town)
Odd night cop
Even night role cop
Two shot roleblocker
Full shot doctor
And two people in a hood together with no scum in it.

This is what you think?

Scum most likely have a strongman/roleblocker of their own if DGB is town. They'd have to.

Okay. Then if you assume I am scum vig enabler then Galron is a strongman roleblocker. Do you believe this?

Think about it Titus.

[MathBlade]

You could go busdriver or Godfather too.

From your POV it’s possible.

But these are very things you suggested as unreasonable when I proposed them earlier.

[MathBlade]

Galron if town right now, loses us the game.

He’s pretty much said it’s me and Wheme and our interaction whatever you call it.

Excuse me for playing elo like it’s supposed to be played.

[MathBlade]

Secondly assume scum have a bus driver and a strongman and/or a roleblocker

Some variation there of:

The role cop would get guilties on well everyone.
The flavor cop flipped D2 with one shot doctor. This could be argued as a inno to the rolecop but gets counter claimed soon as the actual doc dies so it too is a guilty.

How does your suggestion avoid follow the cop?

Assume that scum never figure out T3 is rolecop (I believe he was killed for his role).

Literally every single night is a guilty.

If DGB and T3 never claimed then you’re looking at D2 guilty/inno and D3 guilty/inno. Doctor if not killed N1 creates follow the cop.

Pedit: What the fuck do you want Titus?

He already “cased” me incorrectly?

I agree unifying town is important but I am no where near prepared to bet the entire fucking game on Galron scum without finding his partner.

DGB based on mechanics and follow the cop
You based on not wanting to elim Nom and rush Galron to voting (that’s exactly what you’re doing)
Wheme for being a lurk sac and still existing until elim

If I assume Galron scum then anyone of you could be his partner and a forced bus.

So excuse me for being a little pissed you’re trying to ram Galron down our throats when your conclusions make zero sense even though I agree with the PoE.

[MathBlade]

You could actually be helping and trying to find Galron’s partner and instead you’re like
“whelp I found one scum job’s done”

That’s not how any of this works.

[MathBlade]

Except I am not.

Every other post you’re like “Galron vote”.

This stops me from hunting.

Assume Galron is scum. The other scum (assuming you town) literally does not have to post. Therefore I can’t figure out who it is.
Assume Galron is scum with you. Then either you get me who is always paranoid of you and it’s gg or you come up smelling sweet in elo.
Assume Galron is town. Then it’s gg and we lose.

Why does DGB have to post? If it is scum with Galron then it just goes “Guess I wait and see who votes Math or I can drop a vote on Galron if that doesn’t happen.

Why does Wheme have to post? If it’s Wheme and Galron then it just is the same as DGB or if it’s Wheme + anyone else then gg too.

When people don’t have the fear of elim they don’t have to post.

[MathBlade]

I suppose there’s the off chance Galron votes Wheme but based on his posting I kinda doubt it. But it’s still the same dilemma.

[MathBlade]

assume scum have a bus driver

NO EVIDENCE

Again assuming Titus’s suggestion was true…

[MathBlade]

DGB where are your reads right now?

Pedit:

Okay then run with that.

Assume we both know Galron is town.
Why would I be complaining about Titus rushing to push Galron?
Why would I not be like “Yeah yeah Galron go vote”?

[MathBlade]

It sounds like the two of you know Galron is town

Galron voting here is what's best for town regardless of his role PM.

I have an idea as to the final answer but I don't need to share it as all it does is help scum. Sorry Math.

Quite frankly I disagree here. But that would be rehashing things.

Ffs you said you’d let me hunt Titus

[MathBlade]

DGB where are your reads right now?

Pedit:

Okay then run with that.

Assume we both know Galron is town.
Why would I be complaining about Titus rushing to push Galron?
Why would I not be like “Yeah yeah Galron go vote”?

It's saying we're scum together and chickenshit.

Duh. That’s why I asked it “Why would I stop you’re really proscum plan”?

[MathBlade]

I love how Wheme is still under the radar.

And I hate how you’re not giving reads.
And you’re not explaining how follow the cop doesn’t exist.

[MathBlade]

Whoever is scum... Wheme is the universal partner.

See this is the opposite of Titus.

She’s all “Galron + X” and you’re all “Wheme + X”

And I am like
DGB + Galron
And Titus + Wheme are top theories

Sell me on Wheme

[MathBlade]

Whoever is scum... Wheme is the universal partner.

See this is the opposite of Titus.

She’s all “Galron + X” and you’re all “Wheme + X”

And I am like
DGB + Galron
And Titus + Wheme are top theories

Sell me on Wheme

You just mentioned galron/Titus too and I think I remember a dgb/Titus from you. Lol.

That’s why I said top theories.

I don’t have anything “locked in”.

Pedit: And this makes T3 right because…?

It’s much more likely he was killed because of being a PR and not that.

[MathBlade]

I find it hella funny I complain about people not posting.
They suddenly post.

Anyone find that odd?

[MathBlade]

Yay and this solves nothing fml

[MathBlade]

Fake Vote Wheme votes first

[MathBlade]

It means in a perfect world I think you voting first gives us the best chance of winning. I can’t sort you and you aren’t doing anything useful and I don’t know where your reads are.

Pedit What do you expect me to say, no?

[MathBlade]

A50 getting turbo launched was p dumb. Whenever I've run into a pissed off A50 it's because he's been right. Or at least he's ended up being right. That means dgb and Titus are town. Math and wheme are the team. Which makes sense
No way that hood was full town. Unless Ircher is just messing with us there's no way that 2 p hood both had the same role and alignment.

I'm never voting Titus or dgb.

Now i understand why wheme wasn't resolved first. Math was too busy running interference.

A50 told us wheme was scum.

I want to hear from Titus before I vote though.

Do you think this post comes from town ever?

As I said earlier Galron is in my PoE.
Do I think it’s likely, probably not, but I don’t use “ever” or “never” in elo.

[MathBlade]

Actually, I'm tempted to moon fart all over this game, but that depends on how much I trust T3 to be right.

…

What does this mean? Are you saying Galron is town now?

[MathBlade]

Yeah…So you’ve been pushing Galron scum.

So if you’re saying moonlogic then Galron would be town?

Unless I am completely lost?

[MathBlade]

Why is everyone here so against voting for who they want to vote first?

[MathBlade]

Yeah…So you’ve been pushing Galron scum.

So if you’re saying moonlogic then Galron would be town?

Unless I am completely lost?

Lost completely.

Then I am on Mars apparently.

[MathBlade]

DGB, if Galron refuses to vote, I humbly request (or dare) you to vote Wheme.

Wtf?

I am clearly on Mars.

Yay for not getting anything?

*confused*

[MathBlade]

See I don’t like where leverage crew dies.

You’ve spewed me town if you’re scum which is nice but like ????

[MathBlade]

See now I have something to work with.

Okay you thought I was scum with Galron. Now you don’t.

Who do you think is scum with Galron? And ffs sake don’t say literally just anyone. If you’re not going to pick someone at least expand on why both could be?

[MathBlade]

What do you make of Titus townblock ing me DGB?

[MathBlade]

You've been townblocking each other all game. Titus more than MathBlade.

Uhm no? I literally haven’t?

I have literally been proposing theories with everyone.

You’re also not explaining how I as scum prep a fake claim since my intro and it would have to be fake if I am scum? Like c’mon.

[MathBlade]

I feel like I have drunk an entire bottle of Angry Orchard and I am sober.

If this wasn’t a work night tomorrow I would be asking for who wants drunk Math.

[MathBlade]

Neither you nor Titus make any sense.

I feel like if Titus is town she had this master plan and if she’s scum she’s pissed because Galron didn’t vote me so she didn’t have to,
And if DGB is town it’s so confusing I don’t know where to begin with it
And Wheme and Galron are on the sidelines one of whom is wrong that I am scum and I don’t know if I should waste energy trying to convince him I am town and I am like gah.

[MathBlade]

So my last question to you Math before we wrap this up is do you trust Wheme?

No. I don’t trust anyone. I just was fake voting to get the ball rolling that no one is fucking doing.

[MathBlade]

The one thing I trust is I need sleep. I don’t think I can decide this tonight.
I am way too high strung and nothing makes sense.

Pedit: I don’t fucking know.

I just know that even if I assume you’re scum that scum would need like a bazooka or something. I just can’t make this setup work and that’s how I form reads and trying to go gut instead is making my head hurt.

[MathBlade]

I assume you’re scum = DGB for context*

[MathBlade]

Fake unvote

So no one fake hammers while I am asleep

[MathBlade]

Good morning.

Posting things without votes.

[MathBlade]

Okay well my two teams were DGB Titus or mathblade galron

This is why if you’re town Titus you don’t do whatever you just did

[MathBlade]

Kind of wondering if this is Wheme+Galron and Wheme voted his buddy to avoid the reaction tests and to cause mass confusion?

[MathBlade]

Like Wheme hasn’t interacted with a majority of the day’s content at all.

So if Wheme is scum with Galron then they have their elo planned and we get a scum no matter what.
If Wheme is scum but not with Galron then Wheme + partner thinks their best way to win is voting Galron
And if Wheme is town then this game is fucked because both Wheme and Galron suspect me because unless DGB Titus and I are all town then town suspects me.

Titus like what the fuck was that?

[MathBlade]

Hey guess we are twins because that’s my emotions too!

[MathBlade]

I guess the main question is how to fix this if you’re right?

[MathBlade]

Going to work now and I have a cat attempting to make it difficult so I gotta go. Not sure if I will be on during lunch breaks people.

Please please don’t do some weird vote testing and expect me to be online. I have very important work meetings

[MathBlade]

Lots of posts.
VC says cross voting still.
On my 10 minute break can’t read everything.
Any urgent questions?

[MathBlade]

I guess since no one is here:
General thoughts time.

Both Wheme and Galron scumread me and since DGB+Titus haven’t hammered them at least one of Wheme/Galron is scum.

This means either
A> One player is with Wheme
B> One player is with Galron
Or
C> They’re both scum and this is show.

I think since both Wheme and Galron are pushing me and one has to be scum therefore I have to be lock town or pretty close.
I think Titus is either lock town or had to intentionally push Galron from the offset and hope to swing to me but didn’t expect me to be vig enabler. This one seems more moonlogic.
I think DGB has more of a chance of being scum based on setup but I think Wheme+Galron is more likely but if I pick wrong then whoever is scum just hammers.

I kinda want to chill ax after a stressful work meeting so sorry I won’t just rush a vote because I have to solve which/both are scum to be sure.

[MathBlade]

Can you make those calculations again, but including you-scum as a possibility.

I can’t because I know I am town and that’s where the calculations start from.

If we start with me scum then we get one of the scum is bussing me in elo. That’s as far as it goes. The arguments in the above post are assuming I am town. I can spin either of the two to work as a potential partner but it would be dishonest either way so I would rather go through all of the things that would have to be true for me to be scum and you town and show you how absurd they are when I get a moment.

[MathBlade]

High level thoughts based on reading so far:
(In order by playlist because mobile please ignore extra symbols hard to remove them on mobile)

DrippingGoofball+
>> Claimed cop with a guilty on nom. If town then high kill equity but why no reads? Why doesn’t it want to town tell or help find the other scum from its pov? Once a guilty is claimed hunting becomes extremely hard and I would think it would want to find scum no?

(Accounting for recent posts)
Found your answer (sorry for missing it and I am wholly unsatisfied.) That’s the thing though. You’re saying it’s a guilty over and over but you’re not doing the things a person with a guilty does. You’re expecting me to “just believe” your claim. If I believed your claim then I wouldn’t be criticizing it because I believed it. I don’t think a mod puts 2-3 cops of various types (you, Titus, A50) (even one shot) in a game with a full doctor and a roleblocker. Follow the cop becomes an unavoidable issue. I am trying to figure out who is truthtelling and who is lying and you just being “guilty” without a goddamn care in the world if you die that we will have your thoughts really really feels fake. Combined with your predisposition towards faking guilties and like I get the smart play is to vote nom here but I really don’t want to until I get you and things sorted.

(Irrelevant aside) please don’t joke about reporting players to admins. This seems in bad taste.

Flea The Magician+*
>> Horrible miselimination. Faer is like chicken. Leave faer in the oven a bit and faer will scum/town tell when faer gets free of medical issues. Time permitting need to look back on the wagon.

Xlos+
>> A(n) in your intro post is arbitrarily defined. I am happy you also share a bachelor’s in math like me. However I am not a fan of your posting. Assume for a moment that the distribution is as suggested and there is a scum in each of the kingdoms. Would we then just arbitrarily eliminate one? Flavor tends to be just flavor if/until demonstrated otherwise.

Initial reads seem to suffer from the too many town reads problem. Overall feels very scummy. Also not a fan of their suggestion from nomnom. I think there’s a major flaw in it and I think saying what is antitown but will do so if prompted.

Almost50+
Where oh where is my a50 gone? Claims rolecop similar to Titus. Neither A50 nor Titus are dead. A50 being quiet/unremarkable sends scum pings for me hard.

If nom is scum, a50 shoots up the list for possible buddies. If nom is town then A50 can go to null but must provide content.

Claimed cop why not dead?
Very much in the scum pool. Needs to show the wim.

Jake The Wolfie+
Jake’s ISO I guess would be town by PoE but ewww I hate their iso. (Already commented why earlier)

Galron+
I see where Galron started with T3 but I don’t think T3 is scum because it’s kinda dumb to claim informed early if scum. Yes usually informed is scum only but I think there’s some weird shit going on here. I like most of their progression and while I disagree with their logic on Nom I can see how someone would get there.

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

T3+
Claims informed. Two players back their informed claim. Very likely informed now just a matter of alignment. I don’t like how they went from DGB you’re dying tomorrow to where there at now. Would be hoping to see more good hunting than random votes.

Titus+
Claimed rolecop.
I believe her claim more so than a50’s.
In order of believability it is >> 1) Titus 2) DGB 3) A50.
I think her ISO is pretty solid but I will always have Titus paranoia. Especially when murdercat was killed over T3 and two cop claims. Like I get the smart thing and she’s doing it I just feel so much is unresolved.

WhemeStar+*
Is it bad you believe the nom claim? No? Your beliefs are your beliefs. I think with claims out so far I think it might be a good idea for you to extrapolate some. Assuming you’re town then if nom is town you either save Nom or demonstrate what pinged you and then we can use it as a starting point. If nom is scum then you learn how to judge nom claims better. Assuming you’re scum there’s risk involved but I think you’re town and it’s antitown to go into those risks so gonna quit rambling now.

11: MURDERCAT+
Dead doctor. Question is is MurderCat dead for being a doctor or reads or null kill? No one seems to be looking into this. Yes I am aware this looks bad on me if MC was killed for reads but theories should be built.

12: Toogeloo+
Very very likely roleblocker. I don’t see Town fake claiming to block nom and I don’t see Toog as scum fake claiming to save a buddy while claiming two shot. The two of that two shot could easily be leashed if scum. Very likely town two shot Roleblocker.

13: nomnomnom+
Their claim is just horrendously bad. Like “Werewolf is Mafia” levels bad. But I think in some ways the three cop problem is even worse.

Like I pretty much have a pool of would be okay to die peoples and that’s where I am at. I just kinda think something is hinky

Let’s start here and assume I am scum.

This would mean I would have to, before knowing there is a rolecop for certain have established a fake claim. Not only that I would have to continue it after killing the rolecop when speaking with Jake.

At the point of making my claim I would have to know
A> A reasonable certainty know it is a safe fake claim
B> never do a single kill all game in case of tracker or watcher
C> Kill T3 and be right about my theory that he was the rolecop

So if we argue that Galron was blocked as is likely you’d have to argue that in a scum me world that I killed T3.
Nom was blocked by Toog so you have to argue that I would potentially burn a fake claim.

DGB and I share the same view that a good fake claim takes an eternity.

So therefore if you assume I am scum then it is a pretty safe assumption it is not with Galron.

Now let’s look at Wheme for a moment.
Me + Wheme would mean that any of us could be doing the kills so Wheme would be the one doing so and it would match the lack of hood use A50 was on about.

So now we just have either A> I am lying about vig enabler (see above as for unlikeliness)
Or B> I am truth telling about being a vig enabler and Wheme is a informed neighbor busdriver/redirector strongman

If you’re arguing I am scum then you have to argue I came up with a fake claim all the way back upon replacing in instantly and kept it up after the rolecop was dead OR you have to argue I am telling the truth about vig enabler and scum balance

Not only that but I intentionally bus Nom when Titus and A50 gave me outs. It is much easier to stroke their egos and make them think Nom is town there. There’s no reason to stop A50 from doing a mass flavor claim.

When you look at the day play plus my role me scum just does not fit. It’s absurdity.

[MathBlade]

I think Titus is either lock town or had to intentionally push Galron from the offset and hope to swing to me but didn’t expect me to be vig enabler. This one seems more moonlogic.

Why isn't me plus Wheme a thing?

It’s literally possible but I don’t think it’s probable here. It’s the possible that stops me from voting Galron immediately. For a you + Wheme scenario you’d have to leave him to fend for himself when Galron opened the day suspecting me and Wheme. There’d always be that possibility of Galron voting Wheme first and then being defensive. You don’t like playing defensive elo. That’s not your style you like control as scum.

[MathBlade]

Or B> I am truth telling about being a vig enabler and Wheme is a informed neighbor busdriver/redirector strongma

LOL

Yes I wrote it for maximum laughs so people could see just how absurd me scum really is.

Wheme assume I am mod cleared town. Who is scum with Galron to you?

[MathBlade]

Galrons play today doesnt make sense as town especially his interactions with Titus

Go on

He only ignores you about voting first if he’s scum not knowing what to do IMO

And I as scum don’t coach him?

I am for all intents and purposes “good” scum on this site.

You have to argue:
A> I don’t coach my buddies
B> Intentionally bus Nom when scum me has outs

[MathBlade]

Oh yeah and I in a me scum Galron world don’t kill the odd night cop when I specifically said it was lying because…?

[MathBlade]

Or B> I am truth telling about being a vig enabler and Wheme is a informed neighbor busdriver/redirector strongma

LOL

Yes I wrote it for maximum laughs so people could see just how absurd me scum really is.

Wheme assume I am mod cleared town. Who is scum with Galron to you?

I am never voting DGB

I didn’t ask you to.

I asked you who would be scum with Galron if I was mod confirmed town? Moving your vote here is antitown AF

So would it be DGB or Titus?

[MathBlade]

DGB, do you mind being leashed? I'm not sure if that's a good idea yet. If we leash you to someone unlikely to be NKed, we have more chance of a 50/50 tomorrow or scum nightkill someone widely suspected.

I'm for sure getting NK'd, but isn't it better if the scum doesn't know?

Usually yes. However, if we agree on one or two people being consensus town, it practically forces the NK away from them. It forces either a 50/50 with a townread deciding or scum to shoot a widely scumread slot.

FMPOV, I want you leashed to whichever of Wheme/Galron we don't flip.

Why are you leashing DGB?

Standard operating procedures for an unflipped cop is to question the results and why they picked that person?

This just sounds like if we get your buddy then you’ll kill the other then it’s a traditional 3 way elo.

Can you convince me this isn’t the world’s longest buddy?

[MathBlade]

I just don’t see him ever faking a guilty and then calling xios town

I do.

If it is scum he has to have a result.
If it says “X is scum and they flip town” it gets elimmed the next day.
If it says roleblocked it is fishy and smells weird.

The safest play is to fake an inno on someone whose reads are wrong then hope town sheeps.

[MathBlade]

Also why has no one brought up that galrons read on me is a sheep on A50 for “being mad cause he was right” when the dude literally said “vote xios and if he flips town vote me after” lmfao

Correct. Galron is sheeping dead town who said scum in me you and Xlos.

A50 also said Titus scum.

I don’t agree as it’s fundamentally wrong as I am town but I at least see the sheep.

I am torn between the elo rule of elim the towniest player or not.

[MathBlade]

I mean can’t he just blame a bus driver/ redirect? You clearly believe there’s one

It can but then it gets put on the defensive.
I believe there is a busdriver/redirect IF DGB is town.
If it claims an inno on a town then kills that town it looks better and no defensiveness in elo.

I don’t see how this works otherwise and even then it’s a stretch because N1 they’d have to know who to Busdrive/redirect and obviously didn’t as if it is town it got a guilty.

[MathBlade]

I am saying if DGB is scum it faking an inno on Xlos is literally the safest thing it could do as scum.
Pummel A50 as fast as possible and kill Xlos to keep the gamestate exactly as it was.

If I was scum fake claiming cop I would do just that.

[MathBlade]

It it claims busdriven or redirected (and one isn’t in the game)

It has to keep up that narrative.
It has to keep assuming the next/last scum is that role.

It’s narrowing to have to force a read like that.

[MathBlade]

Now here’s the thing. Let’s assume you’re town and Galron is scum.

No way scum kill me with you FoSing me.

So DGB scum or Titus scum could come in and hammer Galron for cred.

The other Townie would be off the sidelines looking terrible. Before I vote I want to have the game solved because I am pretty sure soon as I vote someone will hammer.

[MathBlade]

Idk

I’ll probably reread sometime tomorrow when galron flips

Why are you assuming you’ll be alive?

If DGB scum or Titus scum they kill you for voting Galron first.
Titus scum would be puppeting me saying hey it’s DGB Galron and then kills you.
DGB thinking Titus town had checked you and you’re dead.
Then Titus votes DGB and DGB votes Titus
Or Titus is scum bus driver / redirect and wants DGB leashed somewhere for a fake result.

DGB scum kills you then comes in and can fake a guilty on me then votes me immediately then Titus is in a which one is it scenario.

I very much see a world in which you’re killed instead of DGB if you’re town and Galron is scum

[MathBlade]

If you think his case of sheeping A50 is town please let me know though

I think it’s possible.
I know the conclusion is wrong but just because a conclusion is wrong doesn’t mean it doesn’t come from town.

Galron same question:
Assume I am mod confirmed town. Who is scum with Wheme?

[MathBlade]

Well it has to be Wheme plus one of you three. You can't just make up some world here where dgb fakes an inno and gets taken by a bus driver??? Is that what you're saying? No the simplest answer is you and wheme. Even Titus and wheme makes more sense than dgb.

Except it doesn’t? DGB scum kinda makes sense.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Galron

Fuck it. I don’t like how he shaded me and disappeared.

[MathBlade]

And for the record I have my solve and I don’t think I wanna share it yet because I wanna confirm it overnight.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE: Unvote

Edit: Changed to unvote tags from vote tags.
~Ircher

[MathBlade]

Hi

[MathBlade]

On the phone with mom bare with me

Pedit I have enough experience to struggle to lock town Titus but she’s as close as I can get

[MathBlade]

I am really exhausted Titus I dunno if I want crazy

[MathBlade]

Go ahead math. Vote wheme.

Wtf? Why would I do what you say?

[MathBlade]

So what’s going on? What do you want Titus?

[MathBlade]

Please just vote him out maybe we learn more about setup from his flip

Math wants to solve both scum today.

Since DGB's not here, we could take the chance on outright confirming Math and myself as town but that gambles on DGB not showing

I think I have my solve and I think the last few moments confirmed it.

Not sure how best to describe it to you but I think I can tomorrow.

Because if I am right I know exactly who scum kill.

[MathBlade]

I think to answer that question answers the solve I have. But I think where I stand based on a prior post is pretty clear

Pedit maybe (intentionally dodgy)

[MathBlade]

If scum think I agree with your solve then they bum rush or make a mad case.
If scum thinks I disagree with your solve then they act limbo-y

If scum doesn’t know they can’t predict especially if they have you town

Pedit: I am usually down for chances like that but I kinda prefer calm atm.

I had my eval today and so I am like spoons zero. If you push it sure I trust you but I would rather stick in traditional rules

[MathBlade]

I was just thinking we vote and unvote wheme.

Therefore we cannot be partners with Galron.

The problem is if DGB is lurking we could lose.

I think you and I being sure enough in ourselves is safe enough.

The other scum is almost certainly in DGB/Wheme unless this is a hell of a bus.

And I am like you bussing is definitely a tomorrow thing. I don’t think you are but I can use overnight to check myself.

[MathBlade]

What do you think of confirming Galron as scum by eliminating DGB and Wheme as a team?

How would we do that?

I am pretty set in Galron so I don’t see the value in confirmations.

Also your list didn’t include me +Wheme or you+Wheme

I don’t know how you got to has to be with Galron?

[MathBlade]

Like I don’t get what this fancy pants play is doing Titus

[MathBlade]

Yeah so? Already said I am down for elimming Galron?

That’s what my vote was.

That doesn’t confirm him unless we go to the next day.

That’s just do we elim Galron? Lmao

[MathBlade]

Like I don’t get what this fancy pants play is doing Titus

I thought you wanted to solve the whole game today...that's what I am trying to do

I do and I think I have my solve?

I do and I don’t see how playing vote mcpattercakes helps?

[MathBlade]

Yup.

Vote mcpattercakes accomplishes nothing

Thanks for telling it it has to scumread Galron now

*facepalm*

[MathBlade]

Why is it not DGB plus Wheme? I don't think it is but humor me just in case.

DGB +Wheme hammers Galron

[MathBlade]

Oh wait they can’t omg I can’t count

[MathBlade]

Guess it is still possible I just find Galron more likely to be scum.

Why was you and Wheme eliminated again as a possibility?

Pedit I am tired I can’t think of a word for votes rapidly changing repeatedly

Pedit: No. leashing an outed cop in elo is dumb
If scum they will pretend to listen however suits them
If town they will be leashed and then likely end up without a check in elo.
Bad idea overall

It may control who dies but it creates artificial by products that don’t help elo at all
If DGB ends up in elo from my perspective I want it to have to explain who it copped and why.

[MathBlade]

Why was you and Wheme eliminated again as a possibility?

I would have hammered Galron.

Right sorry.

Any other questions before dinner or do we just hammer Galron?

[MathBlade]

Wtf?

[MathBlade]

Did Wheme just scum claim?

[MathBlade]

Titus what do you make of that?

[MathBlade]

I wish people would stop trying to be heroes.

[MathBlade]

You’re doing Wheme’s doing it and one more then I know a scum is doing it

I am literally too old for this shit

[MathBlade]

Just I am so tired.

Why do you think Wheme backed out if he is town and Galron is scum?

[MathBlade]

I trust if you’re scum that you want Galron flipped that doesn’t mean I trust you.

Reversing the order doesn’t prove anything.

It’s because of the 1v1 we get confirms or denials.

This doesn’t help at all to sort you.

[MathBlade]

If I don’t hammer which I won’t that proves I’m not scum

No it literally doesn’t lol

[MathBlade]

It literally does because if I’m scum I hammer him and I win

And then I lose?
Or you’re scum bussing?

Like no?

[MathBlade]

This convo makes DGB Wheme very unlikely though as Wheme just stays on Galron and win as we were moments from hammering.

This yeah same with you Wheme.

[MathBlade]

it’s hard to keep track of it all

Want me to vote Titus?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Galron

[MathBlade]

I want at least a few hours so probably a bit of a night sorry Titus

[MathBlade]

So I think this is just DGB? I think you were right Titus.

I was thinking Wheme Galron and cross bus for cred.

And yes sorry for not absolute fast night I didn’t want to try to do elo part two while working.

[MathBlade]

I have thoughts about DGB depending upon what it says about its result. I just if I was in the mood to gamble I would just quick vote DGB here. I am 75% DGB you 25% for the last scum and most of that is just paranoia because you’re Titus not particular while this is it’s scum meta of Yellowstone to a fault.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: DGB

This is easy then.

Kinda figured you’d fake it on me if scum as there’s no way I would vote Titus here.

I mean if I was scum why let you get off a check? Like you shoulda claimed blocked lol.

If Titus wants me to case you I will but I think you slipped hard.

[MathBlade]

Duh we have already cross voted. Lmfao

[MathBlade]

I mean you kinda had three options
1) Claim a guilty on me >> I vote you. Titus decides
2) Claim a guilty on Titus >> Titus votes you I probably hammer.
3) Claim to check Wheme >> goes on as usual but you have a result which is sus
4) Claim roleblocked >> This is what a good fake claim would be.

I think you played a good game DGB but you played elo wrong and I just hope Titus sees it.

You can flail around like that but the facts are facts.

You can scream and bold and yell but you are scum and this doesn’t help Titus at all.

You’re going to repeat that I am scum over and over.
I know you’re scum.

A person who actually knows something doesn’t have to shove it down your throat

[MathBlade]

You can flail around

I'm not flailing,

you

're flailing, I got a guilty and that's that.

Flailing implies nervousness or hyperactivity.

I am literally listening to a stream and playing sudoku and refreshing occasionally to see if Titus has questions.

Arguing with scum is not productive.

[MathBlade]

It just dawned on me you NK'd WhemeStar.

You probably think you can manipulate Titus better than I ever could. That's almost certainly true.

Why would I NK WhemeStar? He said he'd never vote me.

You painted yourself into a corner.

I literally cannot answer that. Not because I don’t know but I can’t.

But if I was scum I kill Wheme here even if everyone scum read him.

I hope that is enough to explain but I cannot answer that because reasons.

[MathBlade]

So much so I think you were forced into it.

I don’t think you had a choice.

Like Titus and I could both have been more synergized than yesterday and you still kill Wheme

[MathBlade]

Are you trying to convince me you're town? I have a guilty.

Nope.

Just I am sure why you killed Wheme. Can’t say it.

That’s all.

[MathBlade]

This is correct. I subtly hinted to you I thought Wheme+Galron when I said I would have to convince you while still going Galron.
If I have to convince you I wouldn’t convince you of yourself scum and I don’t have to convince you of DGB that leaves just Wheme.

It was answering your questions subtly through PoE.
I also used bussing enough so much it should probably have been in a spam filter.

[MathBlade]

Are you trying to convince me you're town? I have a guilty.

Nope.

Just I am sure why you killed Wheme. Can’t say it.

That’s all.

Why not?

Let me see if I can figure out a way to say why not without saying it.

Because saying it gets me in trouble.

Go through mentally what you did after Galron was hammered every mouse/keystroke. Be literal and super specific.

I think that’s the best I can do.

[MathBlade]

Titus, MathBlade will write 100 words for every word I post. He will run circles around me. He persuaded you that he was town all game.

I cannot fight him off

mano a mano

, so to speak. It's not an even fight.

I'll be glad to answer questions and refresh your memory.

I'm only caring about direct answers to my questions and won't read walls of crap coming from him. We went so long because I was trying to get him to vote Galron so we could end the day.

Of course, I could have asked you but your stance on Galron was shaky at best.

As I have said before.

We’ve cross voted. When Titus asks me something I will answer.

Otherwise it’s useless noise.

[MathBlade]

1) Vig Enabler
2) Pointed out flaws in setup meaning scum has to exist somewhere even though had wrong order PoE was accurate.
3) Galron opening in elo wanting me or Wheme. I think scum were trying to win it yesterday. DGB also called Galron town in 2138.
4) Communication is Townie this game. Not really sure how to town case myself but I think you’ll see that I am town if you keep in mind from the start I am a vig enabler.

Why DGB is scum
1) Caught it early repeating its gambit. Didn’t give reads after guilty and pushed it on that
2) Assume DGB is not scum: What powers would I have to balance all the other powers flipped? Just try it please.
3) Dgb pushed the roleblocker in case Toog was full and not two shot
4) It misplayed elo yesterday and today.
5) He can’t kill me. Killing me reveals vig enabler which means combined with scum doctor DGB’s fake claim doesn’t work or at least brings a lot of sus its way

[MathBlade]

1) Vig Enabler
2) Pointed out flaws in setup meaning scum has to exist somewhere even though had wrong order PoE was accurate.
3) Galron opening in elo wanting me or Wheme. I think scum were trying to win it yesterday. DGB also called Galron town in 2138.
4) Communication is Townie this game. Not really sure how to town case myself but I think you’ll see that I am town if you keep in mind from the start I am a vig enabler.

Why DGB is scum
1) Caught it early repeating its gambit. Didn’t give reads after guilty and pushed it on that
2) Assume DGB is not scum: What powers would I have to balance all the other powers flipped? Just try it please.
3) Dgb pushed the roleblocker in case Toog was full and not two shot
4) It misplayed elo yesterday and today.
5) It can’t kill me. Killing me reveals vig enabler which means combined with scum doctor DGB’s fake claim doesn’t work or at least brings a lot of sus its way

Edit to fix pronouns sorry

[MathBlade]

@Math, Why doesn't DGB scum shoot me?

@DGB, Why check Math?

I think it does except for what I said earlier.

The thing I cannot say means that if you’re dead I start the day instantly voting DGB no maybe.

Wheme would be in control instead of you and Wheme is a man of few words but does question when things go too smoothly. But it would still be the same scenario.

Killing Wheme removes the can’t say problem and let’s him emphasize a guilty.
It is stuck without control whoever it kills.

[MathBlade]

@Math, I don't get it.

Wheme wouldn't vote DGB.
DGB kills Wheme in elo?

Yes because hypothetically it’s not about the relationship to DGB

It’s whoever is with Wheme left knows Wheme is town.

Think again with what you do immediately after Galron is flipped look at your last few posts of yesterday.

[MathBlade]

Please vote fast night.

VOTE: Galron

Think about here.

If I am Titus… I….
…….

Then I go do lawyer stuff
And there you go.

That’s why Wheme was killed.

[MathBlade]

Oh it’s not because of patty cakes I think Wheme was conf town.

I guess it will have to wait until end game though.

[MathBlade]

It’s not a crumb thing.

It’s a site rules thing.

Imagine what scum do at night vs town.

[MathBlade]

If we lose for obeying site rules then we do.

I have skirted it pretty badly here so sorry.

[MathBlade]

I think T3 was shot for the flavor claim and being a likely investigative and combined with D1 a rolecop.

I get it would be a great kill for DGB to make as scum as it would solidify its towniness but I really think the kill was more for the role. I don’t have a lot of experience with T3 though so I guess maybe it’s possible DGB killed there because meta. I just don’t see T3 being killed for a meta reason. If you assume DGB is town why kill T3 over perceived conf town? I think it has to be mechanical over meta there Titus. I am not scum but even if you assume I am scum then you know I don’t kill for meta reasons and DGB I think kills to protect its fake claim there.

[MathBlade]

you know I don’t kill for meta reasons

Killing based on other people's meta reads makes sense for everyone. I trusted T3 as if it was my own read. That meant I wasn't voting Wheme.

Early on in the game yes it can. Assume I am scum:

Llater on in the game as scum I kill for control, not meta.

You making into elo should be a dead giveaway I am town as you are one of the few who usually does elo properly. (I say usually because you didn’t do the fake voting thing to make sure scum have to real vote first rather than relying on a good hero read. I am glad it was right but still)

[MathBlade]

This can be plainly evident in Shadowrun. Kills were made for position not meta.

Pedit: Good luck Titus. I am not sure how to help you more than I have but if you have questions let me know.

[MathBlade]

Random post so Titus doesn’t break hyperposting rules.

Wordy word words.

[MathBlade]

I am looking specifically for a town tell I believe it has and it hasn’t done either of its tells yet but I am looking for something particular.

What's this?

I detail it throughout the game.

Look at Warehouse 13 where I townread it while a majority scumread it and it was hammered.

It cases well and does a paragraph VCA lite thing.

[MathBlade]

Ok, I think I'm going to hammer you Math. Final thoughts?

If you do then you do. I did what I could how I could do we could win.

I hope you’d tell me why post game so I can improve for next time.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade did work hard. I did consider both of you for the record.

Gg Titus.

[MathBlade]

He never did let up. I felt the crumb off odd was just well odd. Vig enabler made no sense, but combining is with the mean value theorem did. The mean is the average. On average, an enabler enables something.

Mean value theorem is my flavor.

And yeah I was scum sorry Titus.

I just sort of quit arguing with you.

I told you why I did each kill lol

[MathBlade]

And DGB and you were never supposed to make it to elo.

I was actually going to kill DGB last night until thing I can’t say due to site rules

[MathBlade]

"OMG she's seeing through the MathBlade Scumfog and is going to bring the win home for the town!"

:sadtrombone:

There's a lot of notes I did. Some of which are on my laptop and won't be seen.

Ultimately MathBlade was the better player, he really did come into a twice-replaced scumslot and engineered every day to lead to this.

You were really good there were just better kills except Jake when I forgot you were odd night. I was vig hunting with Jake trying to find the reason we had a doctor

Pedit 1 shot strongman