FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over


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Post Post #1609 (isolation #200) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:50 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1608, Servant Beast wrote:As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.
This is the only thing you've said that actually describes why you scumread Foreigner

is there anything else?
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Post Post #1611 (isolation #201) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:56 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

okay I mean you haven't explained why you think that is, because literally anyone voting can be called a bus vote if you don't give reasons
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Post Post #1613 (isolation #202) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I scumread moon cancer the entire game...
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Post Post #1614 (isolation #203) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:59 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

what makes you think foreigner was bussing?
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Post Post #1616 (isolation #204) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:24 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

a large part of it is foreigner being wagoned as moon cancer was getting wagoned

the ISO is honestly not as towny as I thought, but I still think that foreigner being the counterwagon to moon cancer means it's unlikely that foreigner also flips scum. I don't really think it makes much sense for moon cancer to jump onto a scum!foreigner counterwagon to themselves. Avenger and foreigner are 99.9999% not scum together, and Avenger voting foreigner while the moon cancer wagon was building and then gladiating foreigner when the moon cancer was building the second time is scum-indicative for avenger in my opinion. Foreigner was also low enough in the general readslists that I don't think he would be the designated deepwolf and decide to hardbus a scumbuddy who seems to be pretty powerful. On review I don't think this means Foreigner is 100% town, but I think I feel more comfortable eliminating saber. idk.

can you explain what you mean by timing and arguments after the flip? which infractions did you make that they didn't comment on, and why do you think that's AI?
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Post Post #1619 (isolation #205) » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:46 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

what about my post convinced you?
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Post Post #1656 (isolation #206) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:47 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

that was me. my ability is conditional on something so I didn't want to risk the condition failing on Berserker, and Ruler seemed like the obvious NK to me. Avenger was the only other person that I could be reasonably sure the condition would work on.

presumably the setup is balanced to account for clears.
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Post Post #1657 (isolation #207) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I was still townreading foreigner (and so was notsci before he got replaced) but I won't stand in the way of an elimination there. I probably prefer more pressure on caster atm though.
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Post Post #1661 (isolation #208) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:53 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

friendly neighbor
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Post Post #1666 (isolation #209) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:57 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

what do you mean "believe my claim"? my claim that someone else.. received confirmation that I'm town?
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Post Post #1672 (isolation #210) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:01 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1667, Servant Rider wrote:That you have a friendly neighbor ability.
Why would your area of doubt be on me naming my ability and not on, say, whether Avenger is lying?

-----------
In post 1668, Servant Beast wrote:Q. Why didn't you send the message to berserker?
In post 1656, Servant Lancer wrote:my ability is conditional on something so I didn't want to risk the condition failing on Berserker, and Ruler seemed like the obvious NK to me. Avenger was the only other person that I could be reasonably sure the condition would work on.

--------------
In post 1669, Servant Rider wrote:
In post 85, Servant Lancer wrote:I feel like I’m being pretty wishy-washy. It’s probably still better if I’m not selected, although I won’t say no if we’re prioritizing trying to hit town. I feel like I’ll be pretty obvtown which is good for that, but also I’ll be obvtown regardless and don’t need the master to confirm me per se.
I feel like you may have alluded to it early on here? Which gives some credibility to your claim for me.

I thought you were probably town anyway.
yes, that's why I didn't care about being master. I knew I could be confirmed anyway.
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Post Post #1676 (isolation #211) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:11 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

okay...?
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Post Post #1682 (isolation #212) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:20 am

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people were loudly proclaiming how closely mastina was following her town meta
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Post Post #1684 (isolation #213) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:21 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1677, Servant Rider wrote:
In post 1672, Servant Lancer wrote:Why would your area of doubt be on me naming my ability and not on, say, whether Avenger is lying?
I don't really understand this question.

If you hadn't outright claimed your ability, I would question it more. And I outright even said I don't think this setup is capable of producing that many clears, or at least not as easily as some would like to believe.

However, you did outright claim your ability, and it seems to make sense with your early play. And I felt like you were likely to be town even without this ability.

Avenger isn't really in a position to lie about your ability, even if he were scum. However, there is plenty for him to gain for him by telling the truth, especially since he was probably already in the hot seat as it were.

As far as the setup goes, we have:
-Potential to modconfirm a townie with a mechanic that definitely leans more toward the town (see: Berserker)

-A claimed Friendly Neighbor (that seems to be gated in some way)

-A super-cop-like NP that Assassin is claiming to have
-An informed townie that knows another player has to be town


Not to mention what else could be in this setup.

Considering the stomp of a game that was the previous FGO, do you really think Cabd feels like town needs all this basically free help to overpower and beat the scumteam?

Of the three I bolded, two of them also seem to require the town to be able to earn with decent play in some way. The last one was claimed by Beast, and I still think he's lying about it.
the only way you think I might not actually be confirmed town is if you think Avenger and I are scum together, as this game is explicitly not bastard. It shouldn't matter what my ability is or isn't.
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Post Post #1685 (isolation #214) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:22 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

the only way you should think*
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Post Post #1688 (isolation #215) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:24 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I'm.. not sure why you're questioning me about this? is there something you're trying to get at?
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Post Post #1690 (isolation #216) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:25 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

that was @berserker

my being conftown shouldn't depend on my ability, it should depend on whether or not you think Avenger is lying. it doesn't matter if it's my ability or if it's a random person's ability
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Post Post #1693 (isolation #217) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:29 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

based on the flips I have a guess. it doesn't really matter right now though.

pedit: okay. I'm not sure what you are after in asking me about it?
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Post Post #1697 (isolation #218) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:31 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1695, Servant Archer wrote:imo, Lancer is confirmed town in every scenario, unless the team is exactly Avenger+Lancer, which seems like too silly of an idea to entertain, even if Avenger does flip scum.
right. it literally doesn't matter what my ability is or what ability caused Avenger to receive the message. unless you think Avenger is lying about receiving the message (and that Avenger and I are scum together), I should be confirmed town. that's why it's weird to me that Rider is talking about believing my ability being the reason to think I'm town. it just straight up should not matter.
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Post Post #1701 (isolation #219) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:33 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1697, Servant Lancer wrote:unless you think Avenger is lying about receiving the message (and that Avenger and I are scum together), I should be confirmed town.
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Post Post #1704 (isolation #220) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:37 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1699, Servant Berserker wrote:
In post 1693, Servant Lancer wrote:based on the flips I have a guess. it doesn't really matter right now though.

pedit: okay. I'm not sure what you are after in asking me about it?
I'm not exactly well versed in what's going on so I thought you could have helped give perspective
okay, got it.

there's two parts - the first is that it seemed like everyone was basically calling Ruler locktown for mastina following town meta. the second part of my guess is that I
think
scum knowing someone's identity or attributes or some specific other kind of information about the servant helps with the kill or gives some kind of bonus, which is why Cabd revealed the slot's identity as a penalty. maybe part of it is also that scum thought the slot was likely to be unprotected, I don't know.
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Post Post #1705 (isolation #221) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:38 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

why does it matter whether or not you believe my ability is real then?
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Post Post #1891 (isolation #222) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:31 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

yeah I honestly have no idea. here's what I got from her:
In post 1149, Servant Saber wrote:VOTE: Avenger

Hijacking the thread when there's a uniform townblock is just a scumclaim. Scum want to take over against a unified town block unless they express doubt first.

I would want specific proof of him trying to save Moon Cancer before I determined that was the motive or not. I wouldn't need much given the optimal strategies I have laid out.

If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.
In post 1166, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1149, Servant Saber wrote:VOTE: Avenger

Hijacking the thread when there's a uniform townblock is just a scumclaim. Scum want to take over against a unified town block unless they express doubt first.

I would want specific proof of him trying to save Moon Cancer before I determined that was the motive or not. I wouldn't need much given the optimal strategies I have laid out.

If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.
I mean, this happened right before the gladiate:
In post 1091, Servant Berserker wrote:I’ve been thinking on that claim and I think I believe it.

I’m going to ruminate on it some. But moon should claim and then die.
In post 1301, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1149, Servant Saber wrote:If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
In post 1377, Servant Saber wrote:
In post 1372, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1301, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1149, Servant Saber wrote:If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
Sorry. I missed this.

I am not sure how it's unclear so forgive me if I don't make this clearer.

If Avenger got a bonus for gladiating, going with the consensus target makes sense.

If Avenger could tell the alignment of the target by the gladiate, it make sense to go with MC.
In post 1379, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1377, Servant Saber wrote:
In post 1372, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1301, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 1149, Servant Saber wrote:If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
Sorry. I missed this.

I am not sure how it's unclear so forgive me if I don't make this clearer.

If Avenger got a bonus for gladiating, going with the consensus target makes sense.

If Avenger could tell the alignment of the target by the gladiate, it make sense to go with MC.
he didn't gladiate MC though..?
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Post Post #1897 (isolation #223) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

No one has claimed a kill. I am assuming it's a scum kill, especially since both slots were widely townread.
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Post Post #1901 (isolation #224) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:43 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

why would it matter whether it was a vigshot? if he didn't kill anyone then he didn't kill anyone...?
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Post Post #1903 (isolation #225) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:46 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

oh I see. I have no idea whether one slot could do both in the same night.
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Post Post #1905 (isolation #226) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:50 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1899, Servant Alter Ego wrote:I would be fairly shocked if scum had extra kill power in a setup that starts off 10:4. That seems wildly imbalanced.
where do you think the second shot came from then?
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Post Post #1907 (isolation #227) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:04 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

um... you think one of those was a vig shot?
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Post Post #1912 (isolation #228) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:20 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I think that was my guess first.. >.>
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Post Post #1943 (isolation #229) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:59 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

no
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Post Post #1951 (isolation #230) » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:28 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1929, Servant Foreigner wrote:Anyone beside berserk could be killed, town equity was the same around several players but beast has information chain, which would be selected by smart players.
Why would scum kill someone whose death would confirm the alignment of another player?
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Post Post #1965 (isolation #231) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:19 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Were you trying to clear Beast (as alter said, not sure how this is possible with a watcher shot) or find people who wanted to clear Beast? It really sounds like you’re scum who watched beast to find town investigatives, tbh
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Post Post #1966 (isolation #232) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:20 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Scum have no incentive to kill beast because that leaves shielder alive and confirms that shielder is town. It’s weird that you think they would want to do that and confirm shielder.
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Post Post #1971 (isolation #233) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:02 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1965, Servant Lancer wrote:Were you trying to clear Beast (as alter said, not sure how this is possible with a watcher shot) or find people who wanted to clear Beast? It really sounds like you’re scum who watched beast to find town investigatives, tbh
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Post Post #1973 (isolation #234) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:19 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I really don’t think that’s what I’m doing. You’re super unclear when you talk and I’m 1) doing the best I can to understand it and 2) asking you what your goal was in watching beast because I’m trying to understand it
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Post Post #1978 (isolation #235) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:03 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1955, Servant Foreigner wrote:
In post 1947, Servant Archer wrote:
In post 1935, Servant Foreigner wrote:
In post 1930, Servant Alter Ego wrote:
In post 1925, Servant Foreigner wrote:You are key to shielder alignment
Why would...you not watch shielder then?
As I said there are several players with the same odds to die but my role is the best used, if I find visiting players.
I am confused why you thought people would be visiting beast specifically. Can you explain your thinking again on why you chose him?
If you confirm beast then you also confirm shielder. You get two clears with one shot, the best way to use inv.
In post 1956, Servant Alter Ego wrote:...but you can't clear anyone with a watcher check. What are you even trying to say?
In post 1965, Servant Lancer wrote:Were you trying to clear Beast (as alter said, not sure how this is possible with a watcher shot) or find people who wanted to clear Beast? It really sounds like you’re scum who watched beast to find town investigatives, tbh
would like archer’s opinion on whether or not the “clear” exonerates foreigner.
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Post Post #1986 (isolation #236) » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:29 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 1983, Servant Berserker wrote:I can see thinking there's too many possible kills, I just have an issue with how that idea was expressed
foreigner's gimmick of "deliberately be as confusing as humanly possible while loudly proclaiming that everyone should be townreading me" has gotten very old for me
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Post Post #2049 (isolation #237) » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:08 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2042, Servant Foreigner wrote:
In post 2027, Servant Archer wrote:So, I am thinking that the last 2 scum are inside of [Foreigner, Avenger, Rider, Caster], and we can probably just kill all 4, and this game is just won already.
Probably yes but Lancer+Avenger is still viable. Especially that Lancer is tryharding to save him by shading me.
lmao ok
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Post Post #2050 (isolation #238) » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:08 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

VOTE: foreigner
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Post Post #2052 (isolation #239) » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:10 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

fingers crossed
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Post Post #2093 (isolation #240) » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:42 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Scum!avenger gladiating scum!foreigner to get the wagons off of scum!saber and scum!moon cancer is way too much of a stretch for even me to believe. Avenger was never in a position to deepwolf..
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Post Post #2112 (isolation #241) » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:40 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

Wait, which of those abilities results in you being a miller?
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Post Post #2126 (isolation #242) » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2123, Servant Berserker wrote:Okay let’s see if I have this straight. I’m not putting them in any specific order besides what is written, and don’t correct me if they are a different order in actuality.

First ability = miller
Second ability = gladiator with ability to cancel at a cost
Third ability = Informed + always able to post

Do I have these separated correctly?

Honestly I think it could be Avenger atp because I was having concerns D2 regarding Avenger seeming to have too much stuff to his role, and this claim re-incites that concern.
yeah um..... I don't really believe this claim
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Post Post #2131 (isolation #243) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:15 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I have a day action I’m trying to decide whether to use
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Post Post #2135 (isolation #244) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:58 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Not yet please
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Post Post #2138 (isolation #245) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:24 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

just waiting for confirmation that my ability went through... although I'm realizing it won't work the way I wanted it to :(
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Post Post #2139 (isolation #246) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:44 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

alright it’s done. hammer away
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Post Post #2149 (isolation #247) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:32 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I think that’s where I’m at as well.

avenger has been avoiding the thread presumably so uhhhh fingers crossed

VOTE: avenger
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Post Post #2154 (isolation #248) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:51 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

Hi Berserker - this was my contingency plan in case Avenger flipped town. I know it’s public, but I figure it’s reasonably likely that at least one of us is dying tonight so it’s more important to get your or my thoughts out after the town!Avenger flip than me trying to use this to get a scummy reaction out of someone.

You only have the ability to make 10 posts tonight, so use them wisely.
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Post Post #2155 (isolation #249) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:22 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

If Berserker doesn’t show up I’m just gonna drunk ramble in this thread all by myself wooooo
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Post Post #2157 (isolation #250) » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:43 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

yep, his defense of foreigner and insistence on scum!avenger is I think the most suspicious out of the players remaining. I agree with rider next

I don’t think caster and assassin are 100% cleared either - given avenger’s flip, it’s possible that scum also have abilities that fool detectives or whatever beast is, or used an ability on assassin that prevented him from being blocked. I also don’t put a ton of stock in caster saying beast is town because “why would scum!beast clear players,” because on D2 he did attempt to clear foreigner. (actually, because beast said he had cleared foreigner, I assumed that there were only two scum left, not three, otherwise how would beast know that foreigner was 100% cleared from his action? But there were actually three scum left at that time, so foreigner should not have been cleared at that time just based on the action. I think this is somewhat scum-indicative for beast?)

Of course it’s possible that alter is deepwolfing, but I think that’s unlikely given he had the same reaction as me to avenger in real time?
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Post Post #2158 (isolation #251) » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:44 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

If we go just by assumed clears, then theoretically the next eliminations should go rider -> beast
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Post Post #2159 (isolation #252) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:48 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Berserker did you want to discuss anything else before night ends?
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Post Post #2161 (isolation #253) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:09 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

alrighty
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Post Post #2171 (isolation #254) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:25 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2167, Servant Alter Ego wrote:he chose Ruler anyway because of the name reveal
sorry, can you explain this part?

how come you're just realizing this stuff now?
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Post Post #2173 (isolation #255) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:28 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

did he reveal his other abilities to you in the neighborhood?
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Post Post #2174 (isolation #256) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:28 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

oh, right
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #257) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:29 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

rider needs to explain himself
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Post Post #2186 (isolation #258) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:42 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2177, Servant Alter Ego wrote:
In post 2171, Servant Lancer wrote:
In post 2167, Servant Alter Ego wrote:he chose Ruler anyway because of the name reveal
sorry, can you explain this part?

how come you're just realizing this stuff now?
Ruler being revealed as Jeanne D'Arc meant that they were definitely good-aligned and a valid vig target for Berserker.

He didn't claim the other parts of his role to me, and I just now saw that he could have made
anyone
good-aligned for the purpose of his NP, making them a vig target.

His rationale for shooting Ruler was because they had hard defended the mafia eliminations on day 1. He didn't consult me so I didn't get to explain to him that mastina was 99% town because of how she had been casing Saber. I was fairly irritated when he told me on day 2.
lovely
In post 2178, Servant Rider wrote:
In post 2175, Servant Lancer wrote:rider needs to explain himself
Aside from Avenger being overtly scummy to me, what would you like for me to explain?
I mean you were basically the only person trying to prevent Foreigner from being wagoned D2 and insisted that Avenger was scum, which in retrospect seems like the most obvious scum motivation to me since Avenger was town
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #259) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:45 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

after Avenger's flip I'm basically planning to ignore the setup design as an indicator of alignment
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Post Post #2196 (isolation #260) » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:24 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

do you know that your action takes place at the very end of the night?
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Post Post #2263 (isolation #261) » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:14 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I'm around, just don't really have much useful at the moment I think. at least for me because I'm not very mechanically-minded, massclaim doesn't help at all. are there particular things you want to talk about? otherwise I'll attempt to do some rereading of the earlier days tomorrow.
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Post Post #2279 (isolation #262) » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:46 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

the mod tells a person I’m town. how is that weaker mechanically than investigative clears which can be bypassed with abilities? Unless this game is bastard, a friendly neighbor, equivalent to an IC >>>>>>>>> any other clear
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Post Post #2280 (isolation #263) » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:47 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Not super relevant to the issue at hand

I have utility overlap with Avenger, which was why I didn’t believe his claim. Avenger flipping town made me go “well clearly we cannot depend on ability descriptions to be a reliable indicator of alignment because look where that got me” and is also why I don’t really care for massclaiming.
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Post Post #2303 (isolation #264) » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:20 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I reread a bit earlier today and my gut is still telling me that rider is scum
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Post Post #2304 (isolation #265) » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:21 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I do unfortunately have a lot of life stuff going on right now! And it feels a bit like the thread is just rider and beast bickering back and forth and I'm decently sure that the last scum is in those two, and I also felt a little bit better about some of beast's posts on reread. I did promise some more in-depth content today which I'll try to get to soon.
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Post Post #2305 (isolation #266) » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:25 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

personally I feel like outguessing Cabd on the setup is a total crapshoot and it makes no real difference to me what people claim or don't claim. I'm not going to get much benefit from knowing the rest of caster's abilities either. Like, people were saying Saber's abilities were anti-scum so they couldn't be scum. I thought Avenger's abilities had to be scum so I voted him, even though I posted on D2 that Avenger and Foreigner are almost never scum together and I wish I had listened to myself or remembered that. so I'm not sure how it's going to help, but if someone mechanically-minded is going to be able to discern whether someone is scum from the abilities, then I wouldn't mind disclosing the rest of my abilities.
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Post Post #2376 (isolation #267) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:40 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

fucking wild.

I said I would offer my claim if it was going to help someone determine the setup so we could figure out who the last scum is. I'm not claiming because you insinuate I might be scum for some ass reasons. that's not helping someone mechanically-minded determine who is scum based on the aggregate of the abilities.

Avenger said I was confirmed town. I maintain the only reason to doubt this is if you think Avenger and I are a scumteam. it does not matter whether the result he received is because I sent him a friendly neighbor message or someone else had one of those cop shots that get sent to another person or because of an ability he had himself. It doesn't make sense to me to be questioning the ability that caused it. the only way for this mod confirmation to not actually be a mod confirmation is if Avenger is lying, and he would only lie if we were scum together. The other possibility, as beast has mentioned, is that one might think he is incompetent enough that he read a message from me as if it was mod confirmation.
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Post Post #2378 (isolation #268) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:41 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

if you think it's a scum mailman, then why wouldn't you question Avenger about the message he received? wouldn't I just come up with an ability that seems real? once again, why would you question the ability that generated the clear as opposed to Avenger's interpretation of the message?
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Post Post #2379 (isolation #269) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:44 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

yeah I'm sensitive to it because I literally never expected to be questioned about a friendly neighbor?? the fuck
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Post Post #2382 (isolation #270) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:47 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2370, Servant Rider wrote:And then in twilight, Lancer completely shuts down Caster and Assassin as potential clears, but based on the way they speak, seems to think they should still be treated as confirmed town.
I
clearly said
that they weren't 100% clear to me. scum can have a ninja or a godfather or what have you. seeing as it's impossible to know what cabd put in the setup, I was prepared to scrutinize caster and assassin just as closely as anyone else.
Berserker dying after Lancer sets up Rider + Beast eliminations is something I also find particularly disconcerting.
you're surprised... that a conftown died......?
Especially considering it feels like Lancer is content to phone it in as Alter, Beast, and I argue it out (although earlier it was mostly just me and Beast).
as I've already said, I have a lot of life stuff happening.
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Post Post #2383 (isolation #271) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:48 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2380, Servant Rider wrote:Ah, I see, he did confirm it wasn't a message sent.

I'm pretty sure I saw that Avenger said that the first time, but I just slid Lancer into the townpile and didn't think much of it afterwards. I'm also reading this game portions right now.

As far as why I would ask the person who was the source of the ability, why wouldn't I? It's called verification. Is Avenger being silly? Can Avenger be misinterpreting it? Like, obviously, Beast understood enough to question the validity of the claim, but you don't, which I don't really get.
yes, beast questioned the message that Avenger received. that's the question that I believe would naturally come first. not "is the ability that sent the confirmed message real"
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Post Post #2384 (isolation #272) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:49 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

again - if you saw that Avenger confirmed it was a mod confirmation, why would it matter what ability generated the mod confirmation?
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Post Post #2386 (isolation #273) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:49 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2382, Servant Lancer wrote:as I've already said, I have a lot of life stuff happening.
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Post Post #2388 (isolation #274) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:50 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

my "attitude" is that my life shit comes first. I have a ton of tabs opened up that I intend to read, but unfortunately I can only get to it when I can get to it and not before then. which I've stated.
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Post Post #2389 (isolation #275) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:51 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2387, Servant Rider wrote:
In post 2384, Servant Lancer wrote:again - if you saw that Avenger confirmed it was a mod confirmation, why would it matter what ability generated the mod confirmation?
Because players are generally morons and like to confirm players as town for bad reasons.
again
... then why wouldn't you be questioning Avenger about the message if you thought he was being a moron?
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Post Post #2394 (isolation #276) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:32 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

your post implied that there was
doubt
on my ability confirming me, as opposed to "asking the source"
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Post Post #2398 (isolation #277) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:37 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

to me it feels like he's just trying to widen the elimpool
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Post Post #2409 (isolation #278) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I'm doing the best I fucking can with the limited amount of time and energy I have
. back off.

what things have I done that I'm scumreading you for?

I said you defended foreigner from being wagoned D2, I didn't do that. I said you were calling avenger hard scum on D2, I didn't do that. you were thinking about Avenger confirming me as depending on my role being "valid or not valid," which isn't how I think town would approach it.

I'll admit I've made mistakes. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very good at this game, I forget things that happened and misspeak because I remembered wrong, but I've admitted that those posts were incorrect because I was misremembering. I'm not sure how anywhere in there is scum motivation. it's quite shocking to me that someone can look at the way that I've played and scumread it so much that literally a mod confirmation of my alignment isn't enough.
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Post Post #2410 (isolation #279) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

it is also against the rules to tell another player to replace out. I suggest you stop doing that.
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Post Post #2412 (isolation #280) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:38 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2395, Servant Rider wrote:I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.
you seem to not be able to understand my mindset either so
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Post Post #2413 (isolation #281) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:38 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2405, Servant Rider wrote:If he's that incapable of contributing, he can replace out.
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Post Post #2414 (isolation #282) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:40 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

now if you could back off I can actually attempt to read as I was intending to instead of having my mind occupied by a nonsensical argument about my mod confirmation not being real.
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Post Post #2416 (isolation #283) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:49 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2415, Servant Rider wrote:
In post 2409, Servant Lancer wrote:
I'm doing the best I fucking can with the limited amount of time and energy I have
. back off.

what things have I done that I'm scumreading you for?

I said you defended foreigner from being wagoned D2, I didn't do that. I said you were calling avenger hard scum on D2, I didn't do that. you were thinking about Avenger confirming me as depending on my role being "valid or not valid," which isn't how I think town would approach it.

I'll admit I've made mistakes. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very good at this game, I forget things that happened and misspeak because I remembered wrong, but I've admitted that those posts were incorrect because I was misremembering. I'm not sure how anywhere in there is scum motivation. it's quite shocking to me that someone can look at the way that I've played and scumread it so much that literally a mod confirmation of my alignment isn't enough.
How does any of this make me scum?

Yes, I was wrong on Avenger. You also didn't stop that elimination despite thinking there was no way for both Foreigner and Avenger to be scum together. But you must have thought there was some merit if you were willing to let that go through.
As I already said, Avenger's claim on D3 had utility overlap with me which made me doubt my earlier statements from D2. I chose to believe that Cabd wouldn't put utility overlap in two town players. Clearly I was wrong, which is why I don't think massclaim helps at all. As I also said, I forgot that I had even said that they couldn't be scum together, which I obviously regret.
You may not have defended Foreigner on Day 2. But so what? You defended him on Day 1 for the same reasons I defended him on Day 2.

Ruler also defended both Foreigner and Saber. Was she scum?

Are you scum for voting Ruler and thinking she were scum even though she wasn't?

So I stead of just going 'well they defended one scum and eliminated a town they must be scum,' how about you actually analyze for motivation?
You were the only person defending Foreigner on the phase they died, when you would have been the last two scum alive. As I also said, to me that seems to be the most likely scum-motivated path. There's more scum motivation to defend a partner when there's only two alive rather than three or four.
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Post Post #2417 (isolation #284) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:51 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

you seem to assume that I haven't done any thinking at all just because you dislike the way I think about things.
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Post Post #2419 (isolation #285) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:54 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

we were all voting for avenger at the end of D2, are you calling anyone else out for doing that?

sure I defended foreigner D1, before we knew that both saber and moon cancer were scum, but when I was doing so I was advocating for a wagon on flipped scum, so no I don't think it's comparable to your D2 position at all.
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Post Post #2420 (isolation #286) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:54 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2418, Servant Rider wrote:Why would I just wait to stop bussing on Day 2 then?
I don't know what this means
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Post Post #2422 (isolation #287) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2416, Servant Lancer wrote:As I already said, Avenger's claim on D3 had utility overlap with me which made me doubt my earlier statements from D2. I chose to believe that Cabd wouldn't put utility overlap in two town players. Clearly I was wrong, which is why I don't think massclaim helps at all. As I also said, I forgot that I had even said that they couldn't be scum together, which I obviously regret.
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Post Post #2423 (isolation #288) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:58 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

As I just said, defending foreigner and pushing Avenger D2 is the most obviously scum-motivated path to me.
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Post Post #2426 (isolation #289) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:02 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I don't have enough spoons to reread and post. it's one or the other.
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Post Post #2439 (isolation #290) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:27 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I read through some ISOs and still townread alter, so the elimination is still between rider & beast for me.

I don't think I have the energy to do a full wallpost, but here are some highlights:
- moon cancer had alter at the bottom of his readslist forever. alter stayed as the top scumread even when moon cancer changed the order of his readslist almost completely to fit what I felt like was the general consensus/read momentum.
Spoiler:
In post 226, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Saber
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker
Assassin
Alter Ego

VOTE: Saber
In post 462, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Ruler
Beast,Caster,Berserker
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Avenger,Assassin
Saber
Foreigner
Alter Ego

VOTE: Servant Berserker

- no way moon cancer just puts all of his buddies in the POE??
Spoiler:
In post 464, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:
In post 463, Servant Berserker wrote:
In post 226, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Saber
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker
Assassin
Alter Ego

VOTE: Saber
In post 462, Servant Moon Cancer wrote:Archer
Ruler
Beast,Caster,Berserker
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Avenger,Assassin
Saber
Foreigner
Alter Ego

VOTE: Servant Berserker
It seems like your entire readslist has flipped, can you explain what changed for each of-
Saber, Ruler, Beast, Caster, me, Assassin, and Foreigner?
A night of sleep and a fresh look at my reads.
Servant Ruler gave great reasons for many people. Ruler is terribly wrong on Ego, and the reasons for the reads on Ego, Rider and Lancer are too weak for me.
With these three, Saber, Foreigner and Alter Ego the rest of my reads indeed flipped. My reason to scumread Berserker was not as good as I thought yesterday. Caster looks more and more like a townie stumbling in the dark. Ruler is conditional on Saber and Foreigner being scum, but I believe that the POE of {Alter Ego, Foreigner, Saber} has three scum. That obviously leaves one scum but I am sure we can find that one eventually.

- same reaction as me to Avenger's gladiate in real time. I don't think the emotion and frustration from alter was faked because I was feeling the exact same things.
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Post Post #2443 (isolation #291) » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:34 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

Alter's reaction to notsci trolling us at the master flip also felt genuine

not that I think it matters much at this point but I also found what I think is decent evidence for caster and assassin to be town, I'm falling asleep on my keyboard so more posts will have to wait until tomorrow if those reasons are needed.
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Post Post #2496 (isolation #292) » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:05 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

@assassin how much time do I have?
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Post Post #2505 (isolation #293) » Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:47 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

VOTE: servant rider

sorry if this is wrong. I don’t see myself having enough time to go over things to an extent that my mind will change in the next few hours.
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Post Post #2506 (isolation #294) » Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:48 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I’ve reread a bunch and this is still where I’m at so. good luck tomorrow if I’m dead.
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Post Post #2569 (isolation #295) » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:49 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2568, Servant Alter Ego wrote:This feels weird
what feels weird?
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Post Post #2570 (isolation #296) » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:51 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I’m here and I’m fine with the plan of {send fruit if beast made it into pt, no fruit if did not make it into pt}
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Post Post #2572 (isolation #297) » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:17 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

I don’t know :/ as soon as Assassin sent the invite I was starting to have second thoughts but idk what else to do. I’m no good at being alive this late.
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Post Post #2595 (isolation #298) » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:16 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

first of all, WHAT
second, what does it mean that I was visited by a ghost...?
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Post Post #2635 (isolation #299) » Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:19 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

ugh this game is giving me anxiety. I had a dream last night that the game got solved while I was asleep and then I woke up and it was in fact not solved.
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Post Post #2636 (isolation #300) » Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:21 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2632, Servant Caster wrote:Anything else we need to go over?
what do you mean?
Servant Assassin wrote:
In post 2618, Servant Caster wrote:What's your third skill Assassin?
My passive skill is being ascetic in day phases.

everything else has been confirmed.

I'll go check what from Caster's claim can be confirmed.

Side note: Considering it seems both Alter and Caster had neighborhoods with Berserker, who did he award the extra *s to?
Are you referring to the master selection bonus?
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Post Post #2639 (isolation #301) » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:11 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Yeah, I really couldn’t see alter being scum. idk.
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Post Post #2648 (isolation #302) » Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:02 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I was expecting way more of a fight from whoever is scum. assassin what are you thinking right now?

I received the other * from berserker by the way. Doesn’t seem like he claimed it in either neighborhood.
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Post Post #2658 (isolation #303) » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:29 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Like I said, my brain just keeps going in circles. I’ve been townreading alter for so long but I don’t really see how it can be anyone else. I don’t want to be wrong and lose because of it :/
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Post Post #2664 (isolation #304) » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:50 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

so you do think alter could be town?

I simultaneously want to get this over with and am afraid of voting anyone
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Post Post #2670 (isolation #305) » Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:07 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Post Post #2672 (isolation #306) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:13 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

ugh I don’t know what else to do. let’s get this over with I guess..

VOTE: alter ego
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Post Post #2677 (isolation #307) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:29 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

what do you want to say?
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Post Post #2682 (isolation #308) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:51 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I mean it basically comes down to whether the mech clears are true. and I've asked everyone to give their opinions on that. I don't want to vote someone who I've been townreading but I don't see how the mech clears can be a lie at this point.
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Post Post #2683 (isolation #309) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:53 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

unfortunate but there isn't really anything to discuss there? I mean you can posit why the mech clears are false, which you have, but I've thought about it and thought about it.

if caster is scum who was cleared by beast then feel free to yell at me post-game for believing in mech, I guess.
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Post Post #2708 (isolation #310) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:09 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

but you roleblocked assassin on a night that he would have had to make the kill and you confirmed that your ability works on factional kills and abilities and NPs

shouldn't that trump play every time?
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Post Post #2709 (isolation #311) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:10 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2641, Servant Caster wrote:I don't think I can get to a place where Assassin is some kind of selective ascetic/strongman who just happened to activate his ability on night two when I roleblocked him.

If I'm wrong I'm sorry but it's just one of those flukey results that you don't really expect to show up in games.
In post 2654, Servant Caster wrote:If you're town then we got screwed by mech at some point along the way and that's not really anyone's fault.

I kind of doubt there is mech that would explicitly screw up the town in a game where the role distribution is 4 v 10 because that's kind of nuts?

I've re-read my role PM and asked cabd about whether I roleblock factional kills and double checked everything so it's just a locked mech win unless Avenger somehow misread the PM and I'm never in a million years going to believe that a Friendly Neighbor is fake or someone misread their friendly message notification. In that scenario the fault is Avenger's alone and I won't really care because such a thing is unwinnable.
you said this yourself
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Post Post #2710 (isolation #312) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:11 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I'm going to cite rider here and say that we probably shouldn't no-elim in case there's an extra kill ability floating out there. it would be awful to lose today but it would be even worse if we lost at night because we didn't eliminate someone.
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Post Post #2713 (isolation #313) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:15 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

Foreigner flipped with a self-ascetizing ability and moon cancer flipped with a strongman ability though
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Post Post #2715 (isolation #314) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:21 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I mean we have no way of knowing one way or the other

but the time to argue that assassin isn't actually clear was like four weeks ago when you announced you roleblocked him, not 30 minutes before ELO-deadline
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Post Post #2717 (isolation #315) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:24 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

alter would be close to winning/losing as either alignment, of course he doesn't want to be voted. I don't really think AtE should be considered that alignment-indicative at this point

you were scumreading alter yesterday, why did you change your mind today?
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Post Post #2718 (isolation #316) » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:25 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

In post 2617, Servant Caster wrote:
In post 2515, Servant Beast wrote:Received the invite Assassin.
^ so the PT thing is definitely real

I think it's just Alter Ego here?

Unless Assassin has some kind of day-neighborize NP-ability, a fruit vendor ability, a charm ability and a strongman ability?

That seems kind of far-fetched for me to believe :<
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Post Post #2741 (isolation #317) » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:56 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

fml I hate lylo.

I'm working tonight and busy tomorrow. haven't been lylo hammer in a while but I hope I will do this game justice.
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Post Post #2745 (isolation #318) » Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:21 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

okay. I'm here, I'm gonna try to do a reread, I don't know how far I'll get tonight but I am going to do my best to at least feel like I did my due diligence if I choose wrong.
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Post Post #2748 (isolation #319) » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:40 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

okay these are for assassin.

1. can you explain why you were townreading saber on D1?
Spoiler: relevant quotes
In post 146, Servant Assassin wrote:I have now actually had time to read the thread more closely than skimming.

I think it's pretty clear archer is town. Caster and Saber each are relatively towny. I do think a cop shot which would 100% go off (there is literally no way for scum counterplay) to start is just the best option, but if it isn't going to be me, saber is a fine 2nd choice.

I have yet to see anything that comes off as scummy, though beserker's appeal to cabd and the resultant thought to elect a charismatic town leader was off-putting.
In post 544, Servant Assassin wrote:
In post 520, Servant Saber wrote:@Berserker, Your townreads focus a fair amount on who agrees with you. I find this a significant problem for thread health. A good master/stump cannot be vulnerable to buddying. Every stump game town wins without toxic cheating replaceouts won because of the fact the stumps were open to criticism by town. I'm worried that is not the case because of your townread rational, particularly on Archer and Alter.
I'm just going to use this post as springboard and then segue into a broad holistic overview of my thoughts on various subjects this game.

Firstly with regard to the above, I am not worried whatsoever about berserkers ability to play a town leader role. He's a reasonable player, he does not ignore people, he's diligent, and I'm betting experienced. After his last reads wall any reservations I had as to his alignment are gone. Frankly Saber, as I've seen more of your play, I've grown more skeptical not of your alignment, which I think is still likely town, but of your ability to play competently in general and even to use your role effectively. You have now, and earlier in different contexts, brought up the concept of scum buddying as a tactic to watch out for. I do not think this is something to be overly concerned about this game even if it is happening somewhere, and with regards to berserker, I do think the man is capable of read fluidity. I do not think his top town reads have undergone much change (aside from maybe caster) but I can sense it with how he approaches my own read which looks like its taking more than one curve.

Now were I master, I might have this problem. Whether gained through buddying or not, my confident town reads tend to stick forever once I've made them, and I am extremely stubborn. I still just cannot imagine Caster/Alter-ego/Ruler being scum. Personally the fact that Ruler appears further down most people's reads lists is simply shocking to me. On the flip side, I am having a fair amount of difficulty establishing a solid scum read. The candidates I've thought about this game that remain for me now, namely, lancer/foreigner/avenger/moon caster have not really done anything that is explicitly scummy, that is, something that I can go ahead and say to myself "town never does this," or even "scum will do this a lot more than town would". A few of those names appear in other people's scum reads, but I simply do not have that same decisiveness. Foreigner's a good example of this. The points berserker makes about him to call him lean town, are not things to call someone town over. When I get to Ruler's retort, I think it goes too far in the opposite direction. of the three posts discussed, 162 is null, 171 is definitely a potshot which I don't like but can't say if it's scummy, and 388 is fine to me if a bit pithy. My uncertainty about foreigner doesn't factor in these posts anyway, its how they approach caster, which I find to be on the slight scummy side.

As for the talk around scum's approach to master candidates and resistance therein... I don't really think scum has much of a plan from the empirical evidence. Basically their chance came and went within the first six pages. If people think they go for the mechanic angle, I really don't think saber was their best bet. Perhaps they sold themselves as able to pull it off in their scum PT but kinda doubt it. If anything I'd have thought berserker's method would be more like what scum might try if they tired at all, as it was a bit of a strongman job. The lack of polarization on the choices is unfortunate. There very well might have been some info to be gleaned but I don't consider that a major loss, or a particularly strong worry as some here might.

2.
Spoiler: relevant quotes
In post 320, Servant Assassin wrote:As for Beserker's entry, I mean... I can't say it's a particularly bad choice, I mildly townread him. Not thrilled its coming in this late when I feel the opportunity should have more organically happened when me and saber made our bids. The only other option at this point I see town possibly consolidating around is lancer, should he choose to make it.

did you mention me because I was someone that you would support getting master? if no, why mention me if you were still scumreading me? if yes, why?
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Post Post #2749 (isolation #320) » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:41 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

god my anxiety is through the roof. I am going to be so happy to put myself out of my misery.
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Post Post #2750 (isolation #321) » Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:41 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

this is @ both of you I guess: why do you think caster died last night instead of me?
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Post Post #2755 (isolation #322) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:51 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

My head wants me to vote alter, and my heart wants me to vote assassin. and I keep rereading and rereading and rereading hoping for some sign that will make me feel better about either decision and I’ve gotten nowhere.
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Post Post #2756 (isolation #323) » Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:53 pm

Post by Servant Lancer »

more stuff in the morning I think. idk if it will help at all but one can hope.
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Post Post #2760 (isolation #324) » Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:09 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

I’m not sure I’ll ever get past the mech clear to voting assassin.

There’s also some stuff in the scum team’s ISO that makes me think they were trying to distance really hard from alter, in particular moon cancer scumreading and hardpushing alter and naming a POE of saber, foreigner, and alter. and I think the scum team would have played differently during the master selection phase if both assassin and saber were scum and competing for master

idk that’s where I’m at atm
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Post Post #2766 (isolation #325) » Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:54 am

Post by Servant Lancer »

VOTE: alter

sorry if this is wrong. so sorry. ugh.
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