FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Beast]

They did flip scum! Heck yeah!

[Servant Beast]

If I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence: I told you so.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I'm not going to immediately jump on Avenger for the hasty gladiate, that was a dumb and incredibly frustrating move but I'm not sure if scum would willingly draw so much attention to themself like that. I have a few other people in mind I want to take a look back at.

Acknowledged.

The associations for Mooncancer are pretty unique this game. Due to the gladiate stuff and moon cancer themselves not posting much.

[Servant Beast]

I'm pretty late to this party but I'm back to thinking Lancer is town now.

[Servant Beast]

Not feeling a Ruler vote, like, not even a little. I could be wrong and maybe everyone I defend is scum, actually, but there's quite a lot there that points away from ruler scum. How they chose to play this game is pretty unique and unexpected from scum.

[Servant Beast]

But I did that too, I'm just not shit enough to actually 180 like that as scum.
Why am I defending people.

[Servant Beast]

Why are you scum reading me Rider?

[Servant Beast]

I reread it. There's not much to comment or clarify on.

VOTE: Saber

[Servant Beast]

I think the name thing has utility for scum and town. It can be used cleverly by either faction imo.

[Servant Beast]

I understood you archer, I was just saying that to add weight to it if Ruler was thinking that.

[Servant Beast]

Saber was arguing that they should get the master slot based on the ability they had. if they had an upgrade, they didn't share.

[Servant Beast]

actually scratch that this is just him being sarcastic?

>.>

my memory is really not great this game :<

lol

[Servant Beast]

If a town Master is selected, the town Master + servant is revealed as an innocent child and becomes unkillable by ANY means until day two has passed.

The servant in that slot will additionally have their role modified to account for the additional support they now have

. Day 1 will become an double-elimination day and last for 240 hours (10 days) instead of 168 hours (7 days). (The first elimination WILL reset the vote count)

I have bolded the part that I'm referring to

Yes, but they weren't arguing from the stand point of what they might get. Only what they had and post reveal they haven't changed from that argument.

[Servant Beast]

Because I already explained it in an old post and I thought the sarcasm was overkill, so I thought it was kinda funny that they couldn't read tone there.
I don't really think them misunderstanding that, is immediately AI to me. So, I just decided to tease them, it's not meant to be mean spirited if that's what you're asking.

[Servant Beast]

I'm pretty much where Archer is at in terms of where I wanna vote.

Foreigner I suspect is using their anemic bus to shore themselves up. But even with that, they're being anemic.

[Servant Beast]

I'm not super confident that saber will flip scum either, but I highly prefer saber elim over foreigner.

Foreigner appeared to be the designated scum counterwagon, and shouldn't be on the table after moon cancer scumflip.

I disagree.

[Servant Beast]

why? you haven't mentioned scumreading them until now as far as I recall.

It's been awhile, but no, I've been scum reading them for the most part. I moved my vote off when Berserker asked for Saber or Moon, I voted Saber for the aforementioned wrong reasons.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Foreigner

Right after i gave correct call, i am being voted. Scum is trying to prevent us from talking about moon by coordinating few votes against me. People always talk about topic, which recently got few votes normally it would be moon but scum gave counter measure.

Why would timing be so perfect? In case i am being pushed by townies, they reason of me being voted would have to be my vote on Moon. Still townies would say something like 'Foreigner votes is scummy' during vote. Naked votes are votes for overall image, so they are coming right now because people needed to vote me.

This is a self-serving narrative. Though yeah, I kind of felt like your vote was a bus.

Well, yeah. I had an agenda. I thought Saber was town and had a powerful ability that would be put to good use. I also could empathize with their approach to trying to get the town master slot.
I don't get why you think people are throwing town reads around like candy. It's more like we just don't really explain ourselves. I do that in part because it can put the scum team off balance (or, I'm just scum and have no reasons, teehee)

Rider's post is interesting but need to think on it a lot more to determine if that's coming from town or scum. I'm allergic to long form, well thought out posts. For example I can't tell if Rider is truly weighing my posts and intentions, or going back and forth and just waiting to see where the wind blows before settling down.

As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.

As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.

If you are not confident then you won't get analyzable reactions. People are more AI when under pressure.

I'm not sold that this is the real reason.

You're arguing that foreigner's comment was frustration related and not scum related while voting moon cancer.

No. Archer said Foreigner's comment was designed to make us question Berserker's judgement. I disagree and believe he made that comment because he may have been frustrated with the way his scumread (Caster) was being treated by Berserker. 801 was also a direct response to my 799, which was me questioning his 798.

Nowhere did I mention whether I believed that comment was town- or scum-motivated

.

I also happen to be voting Moon Cancer. The two are unrelated.

If I really wanted to defend someone, I would actually

defend

them.

I don't really think you can have two unrelated opinions about a player in a mafia game. Since it's pretty closely intertwined. But the wording isn't quite there for a clear argument that foreigner is town, so I'm wrong in that aspect.

Place me in the camp where 1v1 toxicity isn't actually a good reason to run for Master. Toxic 1v1's can and do resolve. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

Also, pretty sure that some scum roles would have their abilities adjusted just because the designer rarely has every possible combination in mind for balance. They likely tweeked town roles and scum roles for balance post alignment roll.

Eh, I still really think Foreigner is scum.

The last, and only, specific reason to scumread Alter came from post 238. I don't find it convincing. How has that read matured over time and what specific posts can you point to as to support your conclusions?

That read has not changed. It is fully based on the early posts on Alter Ego having more evasive words in their posts than any normal townie. And no post of Alter Ego after that time has caused me to reconsider.

I think we have gotten everything we could have before the first elimination. We should move on.

Wasn’t I pretty evasive in my answers too? What’s the difference between alter and I in terms of this?

I’d still rather go for foreigner I think. Rather than saber. I Don’t like thinking this way, but I have doubt there because they qualify for the too weird to be scum read. I should probably think more deeply about this.

As is ruler missing from the wagon, so probably at least 1+ scum bussing.

There is some comfort that foreigner, rider, and Avenger aren't on the wagon. But I suspect at least one of those players is town and someone slipped the lenient net.

I'm pretty much where Archer is at in terms of where I wanna vote.

Foreigner I suspect is using their anemic bus to shore themselves up. But even with that, they're being anemic.

I'm not super confident that saber will flip scum either, but I highly prefer saber elim over foreigner.

Foreigner appeared to be the designated scum counterwagon, and shouldn't be on the table after moon cancer scumflip.

I disagree.

[Servant Beast]

I also said it looked like they were bus voting and that they were using the cred from the bus to survive.

[Servant Beast]

Did you ever substantiate what about Moon cancer's vote was uniquely townie and unlikely to come from scum?

[Servant Beast]

Why do I keep calling moon cancer foreigner? I meant Foreigner. what about Foreigner's posts was uniquely townie? In regards to the voting or in regards to their play in general? The best I can say about it was that they were pretty self-aware and they created some unique arguments to cover themselves, but I never really got the feeling it had additional motivation.

Their timing mainly, the strength of their arguments. Their arguments after the flip. Their interest in shading some players for infractions on general rules while ignoring my own infractions.

[Servant Beast]

I know Ruler was kind of obvious town, but that is still a weird kill.

VOTE: Avenger

For now. I might change to foreigner later, I'm thinking on it.

[Servant Beast]

Also, ngl if Ruler had gotten wagoned and run up and claimed their true role, I would've copped to being wrong and have have gone straight to the hammer button on the sheer number of scum sided abilities they had. Glad they didn't.

[Servant Beast]

Mod confirmed town by PM?

[Servant Beast]

So someone used an ability and their result was sent to you. Okay. Who do you want to vote right now Avenger?

[Servant Beast]

Yes, it is weird. The game might be solvable if everyone full claims down the line. But Cabd is cruel, so prolly not.

[Servant Beast]

Sounds like it's a thing Rider.

[Servant Beast]

Strong doubt that Lancer and Avenger are both scum.

I'm not sure which would be more unlikely, Avenger and Foreigner both being scum.
or 2 scum being accidentally protected by a gladiate from town only for it to land on a third scum.

[Servant Beast]

Sounds like it's a thing Rider.

Like I said, I don't really think it is.

And you're one of the players my comment pertains to, who I'm scumreading, so I don't really care much for this comment.

I fully understood your implication. But I don't see much reason to complain about it.

[Servant Beast]

Q. Why didn't you send the message to berserker?

[Servant Beast]

Oh, shielder mentioned a redirector.

Hmm.

[Servant Beast]

Got it.

I think the claim by lancer fits snugly into the game.

[Servant Beast]

If the master wasn't berserker and Shielder is correct about there being a redirector, a redirector could have targeted the master diverted the letter into scum hands and burned it. Without Lancer knowing or being able to argue about it.

But most scum aren't really good enough to capitalize on that kinda stuff. Hell, I'd probably have been *more* convinced Lancer's claim was true if they said they sent it to the master but that it went missing, because that would be such a weird fake claim to make.

[Servant Beast]

Why would your area of doubt be on me naming my ability and not on, say, whether Avenger is lying?

I don't really understand this question.

If you hadn't outright claimed your ability, I would question it more. And I outright even said I don't think this setup is capable of producing that many clears, or at least not as easily as some would like to believe.

However, you did outright claim your ability, and it seems to make sense with your early play. And I felt like you were likely to be town even without this ability.

Avenger isn't really in a position to lie about your ability, even if he were scum. However, there is plenty for him to gain for him by telling the truth, especially since he was probably already in the hot seat as it were.

As far as the setup goes, we have:

-Potential to modconfirm a townie with a mechanic that definitely leans more toward the town (see: Berserker)

-A claimed Friendly Neighbor (that seems to be gated in some way)

-A super-cop-like NP that Assassin is claiming to have

-An informed townie that knows another player has to be town

Not to mention what else could be in this setup.

Considering the stomp of a game that was the previous FGO, do you really think Cabd feels like town needs all this basically free help to overpower and beat the scumteam?

Of the three I bolded, two of them also seem to require the town to be able to earn with decent play in some way. The last one was claimed by Beast, and I still think he's lying about it.

This is a good post. Except the part where I'm lying about, pretty much anything. That's wrong. This is the reason I haven't unvoted Avenger even after they claimed it.

[Servant Beast]

Agree with Berserker. It's possible the scum team is doing one of those "let's kill the person least likely to be watched/protected" kinda scum teams.
Or, maybe they saw something I didn't I dunno.

I mean, your ability matters somewhat, because if it was just a *note* that you left them and wasn't worded as mod confirmed I'd more suspicious of it. Though I am largely over the lancer may be scum hill by the time you got around to clearing yourself. But it's nice that my paranoia can largely be put to rest there.

[Servant Beast]

I mean, it would be a funny twist if they were scum together, but I find that unlikely. Lancer didn't need *more* clear. They were largely out of the line of fire already and wifom wasn't going to improve their position much.
If there was more to it, like covering for the possibility of a tracker/watcher then maybe, but a friendly neighbor wouldn't work in favor of that, or at least it wouldn't be the role I would think of when trying to counteract that sort of thing.

I would say it's likely their role exists due to saber's comment about a redirector. Just in general. mmm.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah, I already directly asked you that and you answered that it was an unambigous clear.

[Servant Beast]

I was shot at last night, I have an ability that delays my death until the end of this day phase.

This is not great.

[Servant Beast]

We either have a vig or scum have two kills.
If we have a vig, they suck.
Exponentially.

[Servant Beast]

Would it be a good idea to share my abilities or at least some of the relevant ones @Berserker? @Shielder?

[Servant Beast]

k.

I would wait to reveal your abilities till half way through the day or when a wagon is about to go through with a berserker blessing.

[Servant Beast]

Just based on wagon composition and the scum that have already flipped. We have a lot of scum bussing going on. Maybe they all wanted to try going deep and hoped it would clear themselves.

I mean, the scum team is in Rider, assassin, foreigner, Avenger. Unless Altar or Archer are: very good scum, while also somehow being insane bussers.

[Servant Beast]

I forgot caster.
Sigh.

[Servant Beast]

Well, I wouldn't flip scum.

[Servant Beast]

Also, just as a general request, I'd prefer if I wasn't another casualty to the "must be one scum, one town pairing" fallacy.

@Rider, only if you're town tho. If you're scum I'll stop nagging you to get a better read.

[Servant Beast]

Would it be a good idea to share my abilities or at least some of the relevant ones @Berserker? @Shielder?

Depends on how relevant they are IMO

hmm. somewhat relevant, but my abilities still have use even with Saber dead. I could do a partial reveal of the relevant portions.

[Servant Beast]

I don't think he's gas lighting you so much as that he's using an ad hominem on you.

[Servant Beast]

I condescend a lot at people that push me when I'm town though. It's a bad habit and bad play, but I do it frequently enough that I just sit in the "could come from either" camp, camp.

I do think Rider is fairly grumpy even though we're winning though. But I think foreigner or Avenger probably has at least 1 scum in it.

[Servant Beast]

I want to believe that Rider is in a biker jacket and has his back against a locker with sun glasses on when he says that. I don't care that he has to be on the computer. Probably voice command.

[Servant Beast]

Mine

[Servant Beast]

I condescend a lot at people that push me when I'm town though. It's a bad habit and bad play, but I do it frequently enough that I just sit in the "could come from either" camp, camp.

I do think Rider is fairly grumpy even though we're winning though. But I think foreigner or Avenger probably has at least 1 scum in it.

Why would I be grumpy?

All the biggest threats to my role have been dealt with in some form or another:
-The player that is immune to investigations is conftown
-The strongman scum was eliminated Day 1
-The PT-crashing scum was also eliminated Day 1
-The town roleblocker was eliminated Night 1

My issue is the ridiculousness that is being presented to me by Archer [and potentially Berserker] in preserving Avenger despite him being very likely scum.

I mean you think I'm very likely scum, so I'm not sure how seriously I can take this statement.

[Servant Beast]

You shouldn't care how seriously I take you.
Hey, I've always voted there first. You just voted right after.
To me, you're not on the table today without something very convincing being thrown at you.

I'm clearly missing something, but why are you gloating about how nothing can stop you now that your archenemy is dead.

[Servant Beast]

The comedy option is definitely that Foreigner and Avenger are both scum who made excellent gambits that fell flat because they never went to drama club.

[Servant Beast]

What reason do people have for suspecting Beast?

My avatar is red.

[Servant Beast]

To be fair, you do have a poor grasp of the game state if you're town rider.
and you did just ask investigatives to out themselves which is anti-town.

Can we reset relations, Rider is clearly an abrasiveness chap. I'm not sure if he's scum though, since town tend not to think they need to make friends, while a subset of scum do think that.

[Servant Beast]

Also just in general, maybe we shouldn't set up speculate a game designed by Cabd.

[Servant Beast]

Lancer cleared themselves as well, they're a friendly neighbor.

[Servant Beast]

I like this plan.

[Servant Beast]

How many miselimination do we have if one of these players flips scum?

[Servant Beast]

Is there anything in the wording of your ability that can allow you to survive or are you 100% dead?

[Servant Beast]

If we could not rehash this for the third time, I'd appreciate it.

@Shielder. I see. Bummer!

pedit: ooo. Tell me more!

[Servant Beast]

Does Avenger + Foreigner even make sense here? How much bussing is too much bussing for a scumteam?

Infinite bus works.

/pedit: @Archer, I am unironically arguing this because I can't seem to find the last one outside of those two besides the larger elimination pool. Where all the scum are highly likely to be that I mentioned before.

I just need one of Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown and this game is *probably* in the bag.

[Servant Beast]

It's been like a day Rider. Foreigner hasn't even posted yet. Stop AtEing, jeez.

[Servant Beast]

Assassin, Rider, Caster. To obvtown

Caster was and is town,

Rider has been obvtowning for this entire day phase.

Are you nominating yourself for the final scum if foreigner and/or Avenger aren't scum?

[Servant Beast]

Do we have a vig or does scum have 2 killing abilities btw.
I think I cleared foreigner if we don't have a vig acually.

[Servant Beast]

Well okay then, because I investigated Foreigner and he didn't attempt to kill anyone last night.

Scum can't shoot 2 different people on the same nigh right?

[Servant Beast]

*rather, scum can't use an ability and a night kill ability simultaneously correct?

[Servant Beast]

Pretty much one scum can't kill two players at night(?) i think and if there isn't a vig to explain the other kill then probably foreigner is cleared.
I think?

[Servant Beast]

I watch beast, no visits

I don't mean to be rude, but why the fuck would you watch me?

[Servant Beast]

I'm okay with foreigner full claiming.
I'm going to bed.

[Servant Beast]

I would like foreigner to full claim.

[Servant Beast]

I would like foreigner to full claim.

[Servant Beast]

We're not.

[Servant Beast]

Foreigner's default into bluster is scummy to me.

[Servant Beast]

It literally didn't occur to me that that I might've cleared him until half way through the day, lol.
The reason I decided to go after Avenger first is that I thought it reduced the odds of foreigner being scum since it's 50/50 who did the kill.

But then I thought about whether there was a vig who would kill ruler or, (even more impossibly), shielder and I was like, oh shit. I should bring this up.

Then I did.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Foreigner
I would rather give those jerks a lesson then help them and get SR for literally anything i do.

Instead of this, could you please full claim?

[Servant Beast]

Woops. Shielder is correct.
Just what your abilities do. Not the names of your abilities and not the name of your character.

I'm not even sure how gladiate and my ability would go together arguably.

[Servant Beast]

I'm still siting at Avenger and Foreigner being the last two scum somehow.

[Servant Beast]

This may be bad timing, but if you're town Foreigner I'm sorry for swearing at ou in frustration that you watched me. I can see how that could've hurt your feelings.

Though I do find it more likely that you're just acting with bluster when being accused of being scum. I guess we'll find out? I just wanted to apologize if I incensed you in a moment of salt.

[Servant Beast]

I like Foreigner as town.

[Servant Beast]

I can see where Rider is coming from.

[Servant Beast]

Mechanical solves are leading people down the wrong path though. I don't really get the obsession with them.
I think Saber was trying to give foreigner a leg up early.

[Servant Beast]

It shouldn't, no. I think it's just because they're scum tho.

[Servant Beast]

I thought about it, decided that I don't need to be on every scum wagon.

[Servant Beast]

There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
I'm incorrigible and a reprobate.

[Servant Beast]

Please claim.

[Servant Beast]

Hey, I cleared someone!

Also,

RIP archer.

[Servant Beast]

Caster. They haven't killed anyone.

[Servant Beast]

Would've checked avenger but miller claim and Cabd wouldn't answer directly if a Miller would come up guilty automatically.

[Servant Beast]

Didn't we already have a scum strongman flip? (also, didn't we have a role block flip?)

[Servant Beast]

So if Assassin and Caster are clear and Lancer is clear and Berserker is still alive and I'm town.

The last scum is 100% in Rider, Avenger, and Alter and we win? Since I think we have three flips left.

Pedit: Yes, this is definitely the comedy option of reality.

VOTE: Avenger
e-2? I think.

[Servant Beast]

Good night.
Game'll be here tomorrow.

[Servant Beast]

Why are we doing Avenger over Rider?

Attitude is the best way I can describe it at 6 in the morning.

[Servant Beast]

However, I believe Avenger said there was a part of their role that could clear themselves.

UNVOTE:

So I'm willing to wait for them to full claim here.

[Servant Beast]

Your name was already revealed Avenger, I just thought you had an ability that would clear you but it sounds like you don't.
Also, it's pretty obvious who you'd know isn't in the game.

That np ain't great and your joke about wanting to clear yourself as miller with a master is kind of suspect to me, but...I don't really know for sure! So I won't cast aspersions.

Your name was already revealed avenger, so no need.
Got it, in regards to the killer thing.

VOTE: Avenger

[Servant Beast]

Scum!avenger gladiating scum!foreigner to get the wagons off of scum!saber and scum!moon cancer is way too much of a stretch for even me to believe. Avenger was never in a position to deepwolf..

Eh, I can see it from a "the entire scum team is being voted or openly suspected, maybe I should reset the board and clear myself by arguing for foreigner or something!11123!" But no acting chops and hope is gatorade.

[Servant Beast]

I'm aware of who the other name is because I watched amadeus as part of a classic movie binge once.

[Servant Beast]

I still don't know where the confidence some part of your ability could clear you though?

[Servant Beast]

I confirm it was me.

VOTE: foreigner
This is flipping scum.

The reason I gladiator here is because I do that read Moon as scum.
Sabre may be lying but given the roles, they too have 1 role that benefits scum and town, and 1 anti scum (I'll find it hard to believe that scum can power up their own NP).

foreigner has been sitting in the back, asking why I'm not at E1 while still not voting me there? Just shading instead of actually reading and actually happy where the votes are going.

There's scum within me and foreigner 100% of the time here.

As I said, I also have an anti scum role which can be proven when I like. I won't be sharing it today though unless it becomes beneficial.

This post would be hilarious if Avenger is actually the last baddie <3

[Servant Beast]

I see. Have any last minute reads you'd like to share?

[Servant Beast]

Assassin got cleared because I'm pretty sure that even a redirector would be roleblocked first.
Unless it's a passive seems unlikely though and assassin wouldn't have enough for an np yet, probably.

It's pretty much rider or alter if you're not scum.

Wait for Berserker first before self-hammering. Unless you're scum, in which case, yeah.
Feel free to self-hammer.

[Servant Beast]

Berserker?

[Servant Beast]

*taps foot*

[Servant Beast]

It's hot today. *checks watch*

[Servant Beast]

I'm waiting for Avenger to get eliminated.

[Servant Beast]

I have a day action I’m trying to decide whether to use

As long as it advances a town win condition I'm cool with it. You're cleared, so you can do whatever you'd like.

[Servant Beast]

I do think we should just hammer Avenger and see if the game ends though. I'm not like, 100% confident, but I rarely am.

[Servant Beast]

UNVOTE:

sure.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Avenger

[Servant Beast]

E-1

[Servant Beast]

I agree with Rider, not on the specifics but the result.
I don't like to make a lot of assumptions as to why someone does something since I'll likely be wrong. To me, the question is, given rider's play this game can they be scum? And the answer's pretty much yes.

[Servant Beast]

I meant avenger. lol.

[Servant Beast]

I had two shots for investigator. So I'm all out of helpfulness in the investigation department.

@Lancer, There were only two scum alive when I investigated foreigner.

[Servant Beast]

I spent the night checking my angles.
I can confirm that I was not redirected and my ability landed on Caster. The only universe where caster is scum is one where they show up as inno to a kill investigate. Given Foreigner did not do the kill N1, it had to have been their partner.

So I guess Berserker killed Ruler.
That sucks.

[Servant Beast]

I think it's Beast, but I literally just woke up and am not in the mood to explain anything I haven't already done so in a previous post (see 855).

I'm sorry Avenger wasn't scum. I'm bad and couldn't help myself from chasing after the shiny.

It's not me, see: my entire iso.

[Servant Beast]

Please note the mystery behind multiple investigators early and how my play reflected being an investigative role.
Avenger's role pm explicitly implies the existence of a detective type.

Like how Titus's role explicitly implies there being non-mason neighborhoods in the game.

[Servant Beast]

Explicit implications are kind of an oxymoron.

[Servant Beast]

@Caster: just making sure, but you aren't Mrs. Crane yeah?

Assassin from a role perspective I couldn't clear. It seems based off of the scum roles revealed so far there isn't a replication of roles in terms of scum roles. There was a machoizer and a strong man. Assassins I can see just from a thematic stand point getting past a role blocker. However, based on the roles revealed so far if there is a redirector it would have to be the last scum and I'm pretty sure that:
1. A redirector has lower priority than a role blocker so their action would fail even if they redirected caster. 2. The kill would need to be guranteed to come from assassin based on the information we have.

It should be noted that the scum team's NP seems to have been all 4 stars, but unless assassin had an extra boost as part of their own abilities none of their abilities that would have allowed for a boost a NP even a 3* wouldn't have charged by the night they would need to have to get through a role block.

[Servant Beast]

Pretty much the only universe where Assassin is scum is one where they can kill with an innate ability (no NP, or a really low cost NP which I find unlikely) or some sort of passive that alters how abilities effect them.

[Servant Beast]

after Avenger's flip I'm basically planning to ignore the setup design as an indicator of alignment

Why is it that when I want people to ignore set up design they weigh it heavily and then when it could be advantageous for them to weigh it, they just say "well, I'm going to ignore the set up design now"

Also, the scum team had a lot of power. Based on the current town flips, my role fits into the power spectrum. If this is really my role I spent a lot of time making inconveable gambits, clearing shielder for no reason. Being a detective with a tracker/watcher already existing. Pushing at Foreigner immediately for watching/tracking me. Foreigner being clearly informed and plainly stating their interpretation of our back and forth (Lancer and I, I mean) and so on.

I took a lot of risks and made my play a lot more complicated than most would do, at best you could call me inspired scum. I was also pushing at Foreigner, which means that even though I wasn't helping push Moon cancer (who I was wrong on) and Saber (who I was wrong on early and then flipped around based on their claim) that I don't appear at least, to be a super plausible scum candidate.

I at least don't think it's as clear cut as not wanting to consider role stuff because it's fundamentally attached to player's approaches to games.

[Servant Beast]

Beast, how were your results returned to you regarding Caster and Foreigner?

Cabd told me in my notes PT, they used the player's name and then stated whether the player had killed anyone this game. Both were negatives.

I clarified with Cabd over night that he hadn't made an error by naming Caster. (I couldn't have been blocked as an investigative without being informed of it, due to the nature of requiring a result). He said it was intentionally worded that way. So, I wasn't redirected. Pretty much.

[Servant Beast]

No. But my result was always given as the thread opened up post night.

[Servant Beast]

Mrs. Crane was the only caster servant that I thought might come away clear in an investigate because she liked clothes, so I thought "maybe she could change her clothes after they got blood on them" Twas' a passing thought.

I'm narrowing my focus to Assassin, Alter, Rider and then need to whittle it down more from there. I'm okay with a mass claim.

[Servant Beast]

Except Lancer and Caster.
They really don't need to claim. It just benefits the scum team I think. I guess it might help, because it might make other roles less plausible. But, I guess what I mean to say is that they should go last and they should feel free to fudge their claims to hold advantage so to speak.

[Servant Beast]

Is there some reason you're not responding to my posts but pretty much everyone else's? Is it not interesting or worth commenting on?

That's fine. I'm just wondering if you're working on false associations for later if you get flipped.

Not really, sometimes people can react in ways that give the game away if you just confront them about it.
I don't really think that happened here. Or at least, it's not obvious.

I watch beast, no visits

I don't mean to be rude, but why the fuck would you watch me?

Foreigner's default into bluster is scummy to me.

It literally didn't occur to me that that I might've cleared him until half way through the day, lol.
The reason I decided to go after Avenger first is that I thought it reduced the odds of foreigner being scum since it's 50/50 who did the kill.

But then I thought about whether there was a vig who would kill ruler or, (even more impossibly), shielder and I was like, oh shit. I should bring this up.

Then I did.

I'm helping with anti associatives btw. I know it's kinda weird to build a case in self-defense, but I find that pointing things out can help people correctly interpret information even though, obviously, I'm biased.

[Servant Beast]

Mostly right now, besides hunting, I'm thinking about how to achieve two eliminations on the most probable scum without losing an elimination by getting eliminated myself. Pretty much, I want to do the opposite of what Rider is doing, because if I'm wrong again I'd like another shot rather than getting killed for being wrong again. Which results in a sort of blame game or, 'you're responsible for being wrong, so if we lose because I voted you, it's on you"
and yeah, it's on me, from a justice or fairness perspective but from the perspective of win condition it leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, just from a self-case perspective, I've self-cased and Alter has self-cased but Rider just argued that they were wrong and they were being suspected for that, which is slightly different. I'd like Rider to self-case and tbh, for Assassin to self case.

Sometimes I get burnt because I push at people in comfortable positions, but I'm just trying to solve and make sure the corners are clear. So I hope Alter and Assassin do not push back (too) hard for me questioning them.

With that out of the way.

I don't think Alter is cleared. I still think they're town because as mentioned there were decision points where they just defaulted right back onto scum when they had reason not to.

For example, when Lancer was like, "based on what happened with Moon cancer, Foreigner should be cleared" instead of just giggling in my scum PT, I was like, "actually, no" Alter played similarly.

Assassin has intentionally played a certain way. But I feel like they have no results to show for it, which, kind of sucks tbh. I don't think a clear should be relied on here. They require a closer look.

I'm kinda just draft posting today. I'm busy with other stuff.

[Servant Beast]

I do not think that Alter should be cleared for being mean to Foreigner near the end. If that's being weighed. I'm not sure if others are.

[Servant Beast]

1. Freud is a hack.
2. Two, the post was pointing out the contrast. I could have laughed in my scum PT *if* I had a scum PT and had motivation to just either agree or not interrupt an opponent when they were making a mistake. I did interrupt them however.

[Servant Beast]

I would like Rider to claim fully first and then I'm stuck in Alter/Assassin land and don't mind which goes next. Or I can go next after Rider.

[Servant Beast]

VOTE: Rider

Is my response to rider's posts. If you just want to go for surface, least charitable interpretations. I'm just going to automatically assume you're scum phoning it in instead of hunting.

Abilities.
1. Shielder is town. Merlin isn't in the game.
2. I could body guard shielder every night. However, I could not use my two shot investigate at the same time. I was asking abou how their death worked to see if I could revive them or bodyguard them post death, but nope.
3. 2-shot investigate -> Investigated Foreigner N1. Investigated Caster night 2.

My NP is a **** ability, it confirms both players's alignment of the targets I investigated. This is probably to get past any doubts if Investigated a player and got a negative result because they specifically hadn't used their night kill. Based on what I know, I believe the only way for me to use this NP (and it wouldn't tell us much, since I do think Caster, just probably doesn't have an obscure ability to come up clean on an investigate post-kill) is if we no kill. one day.

[Servant Beast]

My noble phantasm allows me to check two players and learn whether at least one of the two players has access to a private topic.

I know the exact number of 'good-aligned' players that exist in this game. If I target a 'good-aligned' player with my noble phantasm, I gain an additional and separate result that pertains specifically to that player.

I have a two shot bulletproof I can activate during the day that lasts for three night phases.

I have a lightning rod ability I can activate at night that causes all investigative actions to target me. I earn one charge for my noble phantasm for each ability that is manipulated in this way.

I would like Beast to claim next.

...Would scum actually claim this? It's kind of nuts. hmm.

Popcorn to alter.

[Servant Beast]

I'm not sure that this internal consistency actually makes sense from Rider here. He's pretty strongly doing the 1v1 me thing. Which my first reaction was "Oh, if he doesn't care or has a devil may care attitude he must be town," but that signal strangely clear and self-aware.
There's clear motivation for town to want to kill everybody else but themselves. It's not just a scum thing. It's a very simplistic way of looking at other's play and sends odd signals overall.

[Servant Beast]

To be clear you have a bullet proof that lasts 3 turns, is used during the day, and is two shot for a total of 6 days of bullet proof protection?

Is there some reason you didn't run for master, didn't use your lightning rod ability, etc?

[Servant Beast]

This claim is actually an interesting bomb shell.
Could you claim your actions, I noticed you did not and that is problematic.

1. Since the bullet proof is activated during the day phase he could use his lightning rod ability, but my ability wasn't redirected either night.
2. This also creates a seemingly confusing contradiction. I recall Rider not believing my investigation ability. Foreigner also claimed to watch/track me, which would have been redirected to rider and he would have known that too.
3. I might be recalling incorrectly, but didn't they ask me a specific question as to whether my ability said whether the target's name was mentioned? Or was that someone else? this is really interesting. This shows more internal consistency however because it shows that they had been playing toward their role for most of the game. This doesn't necessarily point to town for quite a few reasons however. Other scum also tried to role play their roles consistently from a town POV, specifically saber had tried this. Nobody bought it, but they had tried to follow this and largely didn't lie about their abilities. Riders comments throughout the game follow a similar pattern, I don't think this is scummy without thinking about it further.

However, the question becomes why didn't they jump down my throat earlier? They would have arguably had a guilty or equivalent with my Foreigner check. But didn't do anything with it, if I recall they defended foreigner, but then they flipped scum and this didn't change their mind any. Could you explain further, what was going through your mind throughout the game Rider? From he beginning of the game to the present?

[Servant Beast]

Why wouldn't you want to interfere with an investigate to clear yourself? Were you one of the players that cast doubt on there being multiple investigatives? I forgot whether you were one of those players in that camp or not.

[Servant Beast]

being busy is fair. Your ability would have been quite powerful because you could probably use your noble phantasm twice. It wouldn't have been broken or anything but pretty good, probably.

[Servant Beast]

They aren't scummy posts though. They're surface scummy if you think at like, yoma 1.

Because I am trying to maneuver myself to survive and eliminate as many other players as possible. Trying to placate two players I would have to push to survive so that they don't omgus vote me etc. But that's a super simplistic view.
You're using the opposite approach and signalling strongly that you don't really care if you survive as long as your scum read gets killed. Which is surface townie, except I'm not foolish enough to think I couldn't be wrong. It's not clear why you do.

I don't understand why you're digging yourself into a hole unless you just think that's what town does and hope you can convince people the next phase to have mercy through AtE or something? One day at a time? mm.

[Servant Beast]

mm. Maybe stubborn 'cool' scum archetype? Maybe not.

[Servant Beast]

Rule of cool on ability usage says that I don't think I believe you when you say that you wouldn't use it. Both days. Well, I'm sure you're aware that scum would have benefited from you not using your abilities before you claimed it. This is one of the stranger claims.

In that it doesn't make you look better and yet you claimed it anyway. Foreigner made a similar mistake, But if you're scum why wouldn't you have learned from that?

[Servant Beast]

That is indeed an out, but it puts us back into the alter or rider universe.

Yeah you wanting the master makes sense with that ability.

[Servant Beast]

This isn't an auto-win but it makes my life easier.

[Servant Beast]

Unless they don't kill you and I guess we get wifom. But that could be fun.

[Servant Beast]

Take your time we have five days.
Caster hasn't posted since this day phase started correct?

[Servant Beast]

Ah, yes, she did. She answered my question about mrs. Crane.

I think I want to go Rider. If the game doesn't end, no elimination to narrow the pool. Then show down with Alter. I might be okay with skipping the no lim phase depending on what happens to assassin. Since there's only one scum left I don't have to worry about collaboration weirdness which should introduce some interesting and hopefully AI responses.

[Servant Beast]

RN: For rider scum, I have the rule of cool. I don't think they wouldn't use an interesting ability like that as town. As scum there are clear benefits to *not* using it. I simply don't believe their reason for why they didn't use it. The sort of grouchy, condescending, blase' attitude throughout the game and the stubbornness is giving me a lot of mixed feelings and signals. I do think they turned their brain off this day phase, which I associate with scum that's gotta push somebody. There was a clear conflictedness in their evaluation of me that kind of just went away at the start of he day phase, it's possible they got lazy. I realize, I sort of got buddied this game by them, but I'm not totally sure.

This is one of those rare cases where the things I look for near the end of the game hasn't made a clear cut scum target. Alter mega bussed if they're scum. I can see a narrative for Alter scum because as they mentioned they had abilities that are somewhat scum sided, I think it makes sense to get the ear of the IC through neighborizing them as scum. It's a classic possible example, of, if you can't kill them, manipulate them. But then they manipulated them into killing scum soo that doesn't actually make a lot of sense. I guess you could argue that alter lambasted his partners in game, calling them worthless lurkers, etc as a sort of model of their very real dissatisfaction with their scum buddy's play. But that's difficult to prove during the game and more something interesting for post game. If true.

mm

[Servant Beast]

Berserker being dead sucks in a way because, if they suspected Alter in their PT well, alter can just kill them. I do think this is something that Gamma would do. Where they would openly question them. It's also clear gamma didn't totally trust them since they didn't share abilities with them or discuss who to night kill with their ability. Not sci would've trusted them probably. Gamma tends to be more paranoid.

[Servant Beast]

I do feel that Rider and Alter have done enough that the solve is in reach. I'm just too dumb to see it from here I think. Unless they're both town and we get blind sided by unfortunate role shenanigans. But those kind of losses don't hurt too much, tbh, so I'm relatively okay with it.

[Servant Beast]

1. ...Yes, but I can't see into your PT so I don't actually know if you shared that stuff with them. As you mentioned, your own abilities seemed scum sided. The thread mentioning stuff or the mentioning it to caster stuff is a fair point I think. Though I can't be sure, I do think that Gamma chose to be mercurial. Ehhh to the gamma not giving a shit remark, I don't he'd agree.

[Servant Beast]

I don’t really care how you read me, I think it’s not very believable but that’s not really relevant. I’m more concerned with actually getting an answer from you that I can vibe with but you kind of seem intent on not giving me that and accusing me of misinterpreting you when I don’t know what other possible interpretation there was to what you said.

you are just dragging TvT, you won't vibe because you argue

ohh, this is a good post. Foreigner, just telling it like it is because he can.

[Servant Beast]

Well, that's why I'm

hoping

he sent it to Caster, so it can actually be confirmed. Gamma wasn't the most responsive in the hood. But again I feel like me having that blocking ability and actively choosing not to use it shows town motivation, because there'd be no reason to holster it as scum when already at a disadvantage.

This is a great point

[Servant Beast]

Because I wasn't sure that Avenger's result would be valid. It depends on the miller type.
So the next thing I thought was, if Avenger wasn't scum, who could be scum and would be good to clear?
And that was caster to me. I also thought it unlikely they'd get shot so I wouldn't have to explain why I investigated a dead person. Pretty much, I did it to narrow the pool further while protecting myself from getting miseliminated.

[Servant Beast]

Assassin seemed like a bad check because I would expect non-detection or similar abilities to be at play. You could've gotten shot, so I didn't look there. I did actually think about checking you N1 because I didn't really want to have to engage with day play as that was still pretty fresh, but decided against it because I felt that if you were deep scum it's unlikely you'd have been the one to shoot people anyway. Since the deep scum usually wants as little implicating evidence as possible. So I decided on foreigner there. I'm not sure if it was a mistake to check foreigner, I noted that it was sort of a bad first check because it was likely they were just gunna resolve anyway, but I wanted to double check there. Ultimately, I just ignored my result and went with their day play. Their anger at being suspected was classic scum.

[Servant Beast]

Why'd you think Caster could be scum? To me, I had lingering doubts on her but I thought Foreigner's flip spewed her as town.

I thought that during the selection phase they might've overdone it so to speak, A sort of reverse TMI. that bothered me. Plus they were suspicious of me and seemed to be lining me up, so I didn't want to day solve when a clear check would do. There was only one scum left, so I was like, probably a good choice. I don't really remember anything particularly clearing Caster based on their interactions with Foreigner. Could you show me what led you to think they were less likely to be scum?

[Servant Beast]

Pretty much, a lot of what I did was based on survival or trying to outguess the scum team.
I rgeretted it at the time, but I realize now that, it would have been a mistake to bodyguard shielder since I had two investigates that could have eventually led to 2 clears with my NP. Though part of me wanted to peace out early and die. lol.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah, I was about to say. lol.
Because their cases were relatively weak sauce, I don't think they truly expected to convince people.

[Servant Beast]

As for the scum tendency not to case their partners early. *looks back at foreigner case* You could be unto something (I'm joking). I haven't heard of that one in combination with statistical significance tho.

[Servant Beast]

I guess that at least confirms that I didn't kill him because he was secretly on to me. I had been trying to sell him on Rider since night 2. Started having doubts last night but at that point in time he probably wasn't reading.

Sure, I'd like to hear as much as possible. I need to go back and dig more.

[Servant Beast]

It's a big red flag that Rider is making a case based on my posts right now, than my posts throughout the game.

[Servant Beast]

There continues to be a lack of back and forth that was present in their earlier analysis in the game.

[Servant Beast]

Yeah, but you're not picking over the scraps that you overlooked the first time.

[Servant Beast]

Nor are you weighing evidence that contradicts your own narrative. Like you've done earlier.

Also, no, I really should not have protected Shielder when I had two investigates to go through. @_@

[Servant Beast]

I don't really think that dying would have been more fruitful than using 2 investigates, and I'm genuinely not sure how you could think that either without spinning yourself into a knot.

[Servant Beast]

...I'm talking about the idea of, when new information comes to light in a game, people generally go back and think "huh, based on this new information a lot of these posts have new context to them."

[Servant Beast]

You've played inflexibly the whole game. People tend to think that scum don't play that way, but I think that there's definitely a stubborn scum archetype out there that you fit. Have you ever interacted in real time with any of the members of the scum team rider? I'm trying to remember if you have.

As a side note, please jump in Alter, I swear to god if you just smile vacantly off to the side while town 1v1 to death as I go into a paranoia spiral I will be this guy -> post game.

Assassin's post makes sense.

[Servant Beast]

If you were gunna change your mind I think you'd have done it by now. I have 363 posts. It's not like there isn't enough information to correctly read me with. I've...made a lot of posts about why I'm not scum this game.

[Servant Beast]

Thanks buddy. I do my best.

[Servant Beast]

It's fine to be paranoid. In particular I've been aware of the more neutral attitudes people take toward me simply because I've generally been reserved this game and don't have a high post count or activity. That's just my style of play in general and often I get eternally null read for it.

So even if I personally think I'm slightly more clear than caster (only because an explicit scum strongman flipped already), if Beast wanted to consider me just because it is hard for me to fault it. Of course the scum motivation for doing so is obvious. I believe Lancer is actually the most mechanically clear unless I missed something big because Avenger said the mod confirmed to him that Lancer was town. I really hope VFP's reading acuity is not so bad as to get that wrong.

I get the sense of trying to survive from Beast more than say you Rider, but I don't put the same value on how intrinsically scummy that is.

As far as claims go, I would have liked full information from Caster/Lancer (I really don't see a reason Caster has to hold back), but yes it is strange that beast gets both information on a starting clear + an investigative role + an ability that flavorwise is in sheilder's department. That said, Cabd definitely has taken pains to defy expectations for the power levels of abilities and NPs, so outguessing the mod in that area is quite difficult.

What made you decide to shoot for the master and leave your comfort zone? I remember you already mentioning the mechanical why I'm interested in hearing about your personal why.

[Servant Beast]

Ugh, I don't want to go back and read the thread again, but I really should.

[Servant Beast]

I think Lancer has been pretty town by play and they're just clear mechanically too. VFP was indeed unambiguous. If they read it wrong, woops. But that's not something we can help.

[Servant Beast]

Why do you think Alter is town Assassin?

[Servant Beast]

Thanks Assassin that is indeed a good post and does not look like partners talking to each other. That makes me feel like I'm probably (hopefully) just overthinking this.

[Servant Beast]

@Alter, I'm comparing his current reads to 855

[Servant Beast]

I empathized with their approach to the master role. The fake mind set they decided to come up with was a bit of aTe that landed directly on my sadbrains center.

...Basically, I thought they were clumsily trying to get the master and were being forthright because they didn't have another approach. Pretty much it was suboptimal, but I could relate and I town binned them for that until I lost that empathy.

Pretty much my empathy center got fooled and I was thinking with the wrong part of my brain.

[Servant Beast]

How he engaged with people didn't seem natural from a (fuzzy) statistical perspective. Human brains like to look for patterns, one of mine is just running background bandwidth usage for keeping track of who addresses who and how many words they used to address them and noticed that they seemed to be an outlier in this regard. It was kind of just based on personal experience, an oddity and a question mark to add.

We don't I think naturally talk to every player the same amount. My computer is struggling.

I asked a similar question to Titus when I noticed they hadn't addressed me but had been addressing other players.

[Servant Beast]

it was kind of funny now that I think about it that one of their last posts was a post they addressed to every player alive individually. 1960

[Servant Beast]

A lot of my scum hunting in the absence of something particularly accurate is "what are the things that I do as scum that other people might be doing?"
I'm not sure that it's true, but the hypothesis with foreigner is that he wasn't engaging particular players that caught his attention or curiosity, like most of us do. because he wasn't hunting for scum because he was scum. When I'm scum, I worry about things like only interacting with town or only interacting with scum and giving something away through that. So it becomes one task for me to make sure I talk to everybody to one extent or another, even though, I know that this isn't necessarily true for town players hunting for scum. Or that associatives are a particular weakness that scum have. But it's certainly something I look for.

For example, Saber gave Foreigner a town read for a relatively mediocre post early game, it didn't occur to me at the time, but it was a scum partner trying to give their partner a hand in being perceived as townie by the rest of the town by acknowledging their posting.

Another thing I do as scum is that I *intentionally* ignore a town player if I'm in hot water hoping that town's players will notice this after I flip scum. This works sometimes and other times it doesn't. But when I noticed Saber making the rounds in a formalized manner but then they skipped me, I asked them about it because I was aware that because I had supported Saber early that scum them might look to leverage that early mistaken read into a false association. Which I called them out on, but then they called me before affecting a blase' "well, I wasn't doing that" and...I should've probably noticed it but I didn't. they had a good poker face there when I went for a confrontation, I'll admit.

I think scum players are pretty self-aware, or at least I'm pretty self-aware, I miss a lot.

I guess in summary I run numbers in the background in my head and when someone is irregular I ask about it or put it into the mystery pile. It's entirely possible that how foreigner was playing was an idiosyncrasy and had nothing to do with their scum games, I was only pretty sure when a lot more obviously AI things like saying he watched me and becoming belligerent when questioned and pressured in a way out of proportion to the slight. Objectively, watching me made no sense, so, he was lying. I think I mentioned this already, but since he was a tracker too he knew I visited him, so he couldn't lie about who he tracked because he didn't know what my abilities were, it's possible I was lying about being a detective and was actually a tracker. Though, I still think it would have made a lot more sense if he just claimed tracker instead because that was more in line with the suspicions other player's had. Also his justification was of course wrong. buuuuuut this isn't the coaching section of the stands here. I wasn't in a scum PT, so I couldn't tell him not to do these things.

[Servant Beast]

@_@
They were all unnatural around me because I was wrong on Saber and they were pretty cognizant of that fact, they wanted me around because I wasn't on the right path. foreigner never seemed interested in pushing me nor did Moon cancer. Which I found odd because a lot of the reasons they were pushing other people, I was guilty of as well.
Not being fair in their application of their scum tells was a red flag to me. Like, what I don't get from you Alter, is that as scum, why would I call them out in thread for not interacting with me as a good scum partner would when I would have a perfectly valid way of interacting with them in a scum PT?

For example why would I ask Kerset if they were role playing having english as a second language, when I would know. That was more a lazy tell than a dumb tell. I tend to read the most recent pages first and then go back.I was aware when I made that post what it was communicating, but I was like, hey a scum flip, fuck yeah. I should celebrate this.

I would like to point out that Kerset appears to be newer scum and, in this case, wanted to appear hyper-competent. He posted from an informed perspective multiple times and was liberal in their application of condescension preferring to go with, "everyone is ignorant" style scum. He mentioned me being master out of nowhere because he knew I was town and wanted to be correct on a read for later if I ever flipped town early or to create a simple trail for later if not.

[Servant Beast]

More likely he was simply emulating his own frame of mind, but was failing to adjust to what a non-informed perspective would look like. Basically, he was a role player that got too into his role and didn't really understand his own character.

[Servant Beast]

I noted that it made sense for town Saber to suspect me, of buddying them during that time because it didn't make sense for them to push at people who were supporting them. Titus often makes plays that are suboptimal to gain town cred. Which is what she did and what I noticed and brought up on my own @_@). It's pretty obvious that I wouldn't be calling out my partners in thread about how they aren't interacting with me well when I have a perfectly good scum PT to use to let them know that you need to talk to me you guys.

[Servant Beast]

Pretty much, I just *noticed* that they were being weird around me and called them out on it multiple times.
In this case it's because I was advocating for Saber being town and that they should be master.
Pretty much, they had no business with me or beef with me because I was wrong on multiple counts related to them.

I..don't really think Notscience would be scum reading me at this point if he was still alive tbh. But neither here nor there. Also, I've been incredibly active in the thread, so I'm kind of confused why Notscience would think it weird that I showed up.

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

[Servant Beast]

Actually, the 842 from Beast feels odd in sequence looking at it with the rest of what I've cited, because although he calls out the Foreigner vote as a bus vote he stays away from the wagon for quite some time after that, and I'm not sure why you'd do that if you felt Moon was being bussed. Undoubtedly Moon's PRs were higher value.

Just because it looked like a bus vote doesn't mean it was a bus vote. I was also more suspicious of Foreigner than I was of Mooncancer. You don't vote the player you suspect's bus vote. You vote the player you suspect.

My reversal on Saber is extremely clear from a trajectory perspective so I don't really know what to say there.

[Servant Beast]

In regards to Rider's arguments. They're the same arguments and they've been addressed honestly so and answered honestly before, so I'm going to skip it.

[Servant Beast]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?p=12450995#p12450995

Gunna repeat this for emphasis. Who fears Titus's scum hunting?

[Servant Beast]

Why would I point out how hard my scum partners were being bussed by my scum partners before anyone else had voiced this concern btw?
I'm genuinely curious why you think I would frame the game that way.

[Servant Beast]

I likewise mean zero offense to Titus, they're a good mafia player but the idea of them being a widely feared and respected scum hunter on site is pretty much...not true. They very rarely get the eliminations they want. When they say something it's often times with a thousand other players screaming in the back ground at each other and rarely do they stop, eyes wide in their 1v1's and go, "You know, Titus is a respected scum hunter on site, she is a living legend with a reputation for accuracy, we should stop fighting and sheep Titus"

It just doesn't happen man, she's rarely sheeped.

[Servant Beast]

This is the saddest light bulb moment I've seen in awhile.

[Servant Beast]

*sigh*, no I don't think Cabd was laughing at Notscience for being correct there.

[Servant Beast]

Oh my god dude.
No, I wouldn't be ahead of the curve, I would painting the fucking road.

[Servant Beast]

Does anyone believe Moon Cancer would lay out all their scumbuddies in a POE like that?

He kept the three remaining players that could be scum at or near the bottom half of their reads list, with his two other partners near the absolute bottom.
So, yes?

[Servant Beast]

Anyway, I have to get back to work now. But I really feel like it's Beast now.

Why? You've pretty much argued that the townie things I did was to look townie.

I also find it unlikely that Notty hadn't reversed their scum read of me near the end of day 1 for the most part.

[Servant Beast]

He kept the three remaining players that could be scum

at or near the bottom half of their reads list

, with his two other partners near the absolute bottom.
So, yes?

In that post, I'm on the null-line and you're above it?

Yes, I'm not scum though, so. Like. Yes, that's what they did.

[Servant Beast]

No, no I was counting myself in there. I was just pointing out that factually, from my perspective, they did indeed do this.

Also, trying to read into the positioning of a scum player's reads in that sort of reads list is pseudoscience.

[Servant Beast]

Question for Assassin btw.
How do you want to approach the neighborhood at night? I think that regardless of who flips today you can probably confirm another player if you're night killed by giving the player a code to confirm that you neighborhooded with them.
Would that be against the rules?

That should guarantee a win even if I get flipped today.

[Servant Beast]

My preference right now.

1. Kill rider.
2. If game doesn't end have Assassin visit me and give me a code.
3. Freak out for awhile and spam 200 pages of solve, paranoia, and role paranoia.
4. Probably kill Alter.

[Servant Beast]

By code, I mean something they'd said or some improbable combination that would almost certainly have come from them. Not an actual code.

[Servant Beast]

This is a surprise. I can't think of a single reason they should, while there are a lot of reasons why they shouldn't.

[Servant Beast]

Lancer didn't need *more* clear when they made their move. They were mostly town read by the time they could finally clear themselves.

[Servant Beast]

Nothing points to Avenger reading the message they received incorrectly. This is extraneous information and doesn't change the core of Lancer clearing themselves. That a confirmed town member received a message that confirmed that Lancer was town by the mod.

[Servant Beast]

You can go back to tunneling me. I don't care what Lancer said they would do. There is no perceivable benefit to him claiming *anything* from a town perspective. What you're doing is intrinsically anti-town. VFP isn't a GOAT but he isn't a game thrower either.

@pedit: I already asked how it was formatted when he initially claimed, to make sure it wasn't a scum mail man. He said the message was clear.

[Servant Beast]

I kind of doubt scum would openly antagonize the conftown in this way and Rider's doubt feels town-motivated to me :<

I don't think it's a realistic expectation that we end up eliminating outside of Beast-Rider-AlterEgo for the duration of the game.

If there's some weird way that Assassin/Lancer are somehow mafia, I'm ok losing to that.

Yoma 2.

I still can't get over that Alter thinks I noticed my partners weren't interacting with me and then, instead of asking them in my scum PT to talk to me more, that I decided to distance from them in thread about them creating associations around me asking them why are you doing that when I'm not scum with you? I can't recall a single game where I've seen scum do that prior to it being brought up as an accusation later in the game. It's just I'm annoyed because I specifically confronted them about it because they were acting weird around me and I felt like they were trying to get me killed and then someone just...sees this and says, ahah, you *meant for that to happen* it's your entire plan!

@_@ and it's just painful to see Alter either acting like they had a light bulb revelation in such an over the top manner or thought this and was actually wrong.
It bothersme too because when you make those kinds of revelations, I tend to think they lead to AtE after a flip as they explain, how they were just *so sure* they solved it and how could they flip town?I cracked the code!

It's like, argh. Either way.

[Servant Beast]

to me it feels like he's just trying to widen the elimpool

Sure would be nice if you actually started playing the game again.

You're always welcome to just vote me if you think you're too incapable to do so.

Rider, if they have real life stuff to deal with. They have real life stuff to deal with. Either way you should not ask someone to give of themselves more than they're willing to give.