FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Alter Ego]

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I agree.

My current theory is that scum wanted to preserve all avaliable miseliminations for later.

1) I get threatened for being weird.
2) Foreigner for being new.
3) Avenger for arrogance.

They hammer Avenger for the gladiate. Then listen to his read on Foreigner. Then come after me.

It's a strong chain that might save Moon.

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to burn a servant.

Avenger (6): Lancer, Foreigner, Alter Ego, Saber, Archer, Caster
Foreigner (2): Ruler, Avenger


Deadline: (expired on 2021-07-12 00:17:51)


Page Usage: 20/42

Who are you implying is scum voting Avenger, then?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Caster, it's been a week since day 1 started. Do you have reads?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think we just keep killing the people who don't seem to care because I think the scum team might be demotivated and barely playing.

You realize that would probably mean killing you at this point?

Help, Ruler broke character

is this important?

No, I was just making a joke. Not every post has to be important. Just found the allcaps "THIS IS DUMB AF" funny in contrast to the demeanor of their other posts.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Given this I take it you think scum should be off the Moon wagon, especially the initial one?

I'd want to look for people who were resisting the scumreads on moon. I don't think being on/off-wagon for the final vote is that significant, but Lancer and Rider look very good for being after Moon early. My reads are in a bit of flux right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Let Foreigner answer for themself.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

I don't think TA is going to yield much given Moon's flip

I don't see why not based on flip

I am concerned about saber's true name being revealed

Why's that a particular point of concern for you?

[Servant Alter Ego]

On review, I think Lancer and Rider both look very, very good off the Moon Cancer flip. Those two, plus Shielder and Archer, are my top town currently.

I find the positioning of Caster and Beast around the flip problematic. I understand the impulse to go after Avenger given the awkwardness of his stance around Moon but I'm feeling some reservations. I'm not actually sure scum pull such an attention-drawing move like that.

[Servant Alter Ego]

855 - covers the entire player base, does have moon as "Not a huge fan here." But, because it is in the middle of a reads list, it is not actually pushing moon

912 - Empty vote, votes Moon Cancer

That feels a little bit of an unfair assessment? Just because the evaluation came "in the middle of a reads list" does not make it any less correct. The naked vote also goes entirely in conjunction with the read - sure, he

could

have voted elsewhere based on his previous stances, but he

didn't

. (He also had 492 early, although that is admittedly a very slight point about the oddness of Moon scumreading me but voting with me, I give credit for them actually bothering to call it out). If they were not the most vocal or aggressive pusher of Moon Cancer, I still like them significantly better than those who were trying not to call attention to Moon Cancer at all.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I loved Caster's energy in the first phase, where she seemed truly committed to her read of Berserker, even if it was wrong. Here's everything she's done since then:

Spoiler:

I've never been happier to be wrong *dances*

Caster, I would like you to do a hard reset and give me a few scum picks when you are up.

Still waiting on Shielder's finished catchup as well as the others to chime in tomorrow.

Can I just flirt with you and poke your massive pecs instead ~.~

I'm really quite confused why the scum team decided to play this way.

like it would be a real shame if the entire scum team was in the awol section of the game.

I was really looking foward to playing this >.<

There's a 0% chance scum don't have tons of fun toys. It's why we crush them with day play.

This line is so hot

Please let me be your sword.

Your enemies are my enemies from this day till the last day.

I just want you to carry me because I'm silly and stupid and you're better than I deserve <3

I should probably be responsible and read and figure things out but I'm just sooo

I don't even know how to describe this emotion.

I want to flirt and dance and sing and be happy.

I'll probably sit down and actually try to put some coherent words together.

just let me be happy for this weekend

<3

It almost feels like Saber is trying to get townread by claiming a really useless and anti-town NP, I can't really understand how anyone would think this type of NP is strong?

If a TvT got toxic/heated we could just tell the two players to take a 24 hour break? Why would we even use an NP it's just kind of crazy.

I have a lot of stupid paranoid thoughts in my head and I kind of just want to shut up and follow your lead and hope we kill the bad people because I think you have a better grasp on this game than I do.

The game feels too easy right now and I just kind of hope it really is that easy and it probably just is?

like if you want my full thoughts on Saber I can write them up but I don't want to confuse the issue anymore.

If you think executing Saber for D1 is the best choice I am more than happy to follow your lead.

What are your thoughts on Moon Cancer? You don't seem to have spoken about them at all.

They have eleven posts and none of them are very good?

Just skimming over its ISO it looks pretty bleh and not very involved in the game.

Could be lazy scum, could be lazy town. I don't like how it doesn't really justify it's reasoning for several votes/comments, transition from berserker is terrible to voting for berserker is absent.

I think it's a fine flip and probably better odds than random to flip scum.

I have promised my vote to Berserker and I will follow him wherever he goes <3

Since we have a shared deadline I would like to get the flip done before we are at 4 days so we have proper time to process the flip.

Words can't describe how sad I am that I won't get to flirt with Notsci.



Also what's going on I haven't caught up yet

VOTE: Avenger

I think this is what Notsci would've wanted from the post he slipped on

VOTE: Moon Cancer

caster: reaction to the gladiate was nonexistent, used notscience's post as basis for vote and avoided saying literally anything else about the gladiate

I was not online during the gladiate

when I logged on the gladiate was over.

What is this vote? Caster had no earlier concerns about Moon but jumped in as soon as saw that Moon is going to die.

another lie

if you're town you should really learn how to read posts

This was my reply to Alter Ego when they questioned me about Moon Cancer. I was very fine with voting the slot and felt it was fairly good odds to flip scum but I had promised my vote to Berserker. I then went to sleep. When I logged on the gladiate was over, Berserker was replaced and instead of reading 8 pages of people yelling at Foreigner I just read what Notty's last post was and it was an OK to vote for the person I thought was pretty susp before I fell went to bed so I voted Moon Cancer.

What are your thoughts on Moon Cancer? You don't seem to have spoken about them at all.

They have eleven posts and none of them are very good?

Just skimming over its ISO it looks pretty bleh and not very involved in the game.

Could be lazy scum, could be lazy town. I don't like how it doesn't really justify it's reasoning for several votes/comments, transition from berserker is terrible to voting for berserker is absent.

I think it's a fine flip and probably better odds than random to flip scum.

I have promised my vote to Berserker and I will follow him wherever he goes <3

Since we have a shared deadline I would like to get the flip done before we are at 4 days so we have proper time to process the flip.

I must've forgotten what actually happened since I was sleepy when I woke up.

I did vote avenger, that is what notty would've wanted between the two of them.

Yeah, I clocked that too foreigner. We will deal with them next flip.

^ this is the post I was referring to where Notty said he wanted Avenger dead on next flip.

Caster, it's been a week since day 1 started. Do you have reads?

I think we just keep killing the people who don't seem to care because I think the scum team might be demotivated and barely playing. The MC flip would imply this.

You can pick which ones you would like to go after.

My current order list is:

Towniest
Berserker, Alter Ego, Ruler, Shielder,
Beast, Foreigner, Lancer, Archer
Assassin,
Saber, Avenger
Rider
Scummiest

Revising this:

Towniest

Berserker, Alter Ego, Ruler, Shielder,
Beast, Foreigner, Lancer, Archer
Assassin, Rider
Saber, Avenger

Scummiest

I didn't remember anything rider posted but then re-reading the ISO I thought 855 was a pretty decent effort-ish.

Maybe I need to look in the townblock earlier than I thought I would have to.

You realize that would probably mean killing you at this point?

I'm pretty sure I've cared/put more into this game than most playing have.

I've stepped back when I felt it was better for thread health and to let Berserker run things.

If I were scum I wouldn't be playing support. I usually just play mid solo.

This leaves me to ask: Where's the solving? For the most part she was exclusively leaning on notscience until he altslipped. I find it problematic now how her view of the game in the first phase had been mostly narrow but on being proven wrong there was no effort to re-evaluate or broaden her view. She never mentioned Moon Cancer until I asked about them, agreed they were scummy, but opted to lean on notscience and his decision instead. Since then the most we've gotten is a naked readslist.

Her trajectory on Saber has taken a complete reversal since the first phase and I've no real idea why aside from the fact that Saber is a popular scumread now. I also find her read on Rider to be quite lazy, she had him placed at the bottom presumably because he's less active and "doesn't seem to care", but moved him up slightly because of his "effortful" wallpost. This bothers me because I don't think "effort" in and of itself is an indication of towniness, and it makes no effort to comment on the actual

content

of his wall or of any of his posts. For my part I feel as though Rider has been consistently scumhunting with his posts even if his input is sporadic, and he was one of the earliest pushers of Moon Cancer when there was still resistance to that wagon, and I give him credit for that. By contrast, Caster looks like she's barely going through the motions at this point.

VOTE: Caster

[Servant Alter Ego]

855 - covers the entire player base, does have moon as "Not a huge fan here." But, because it is in the middle of a reads list, it is not actually pushing moon

912 - Empty vote, votes Moon Cancer

That feels a little bit of an unfair assessment? Just because the evaluation came "in the middle of a reads list" does not make it any less correct. The naked vote also goes entirely in conjunction with the read - sure, he

could

have voted elsewhere based on his previous stances, but he

didn't

. (He also had 492 early, although that is admittedly a very slight point about the oddness of Moon scumreading me but voting with me, I give credit for them actually bothering to call it out). If they were not the most vocal or aggressive pusher of Moon Cancer, I still like them significantly better than those who were trying not to call attention to Moon Cancer at all.

My point was that Rider called several people scummy in that post, and I did not read it as leading a push towards Moon Cancer (I would even say that some of the other cases presented were stronger and more thought out --

I also don't think it makes sense to link their empty vote, to that long read list. It came 57 posts later....

Again, I do not think that they look bad, I just don't think they look overly good. Like, they had moon in their scum pile, but generally had other people listed as scummier from what I can see.

However, Alter, you avoided my question: what makes you think that they look "really, really good" as you put it.

If they had other people listed as scummier, they didn't vote them, like I said. (I also don't think 57 posts later is that big of a deal). Let me explain: I reviewed the interactions of almost everyone with regard to Moon Cancer and Rider looked like one of the most favorable giving the timing of when they went after MC. Other people were hedgy and/or only pushed MC late, Rider was pretty unambiguously "this is scummy, I'm voting it" and never really backed down on that read at all. I give them the most credit behind Lancer of the voters on the Moon wagon.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I hope that makes sense, I can feel the nyquil kicking in and I'm about to pass out so I may not be the most coherent.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Who do you think is making the bad faith argument?

I've already made it clear who i think it is and i think my issue with alter is a difference in views.

I'm also not a fan of lancers positipn around alter

What's this supposed to mean, exactly?

You should think about my motivations and my play rather than and whether it makes sense for scum!me to play in such a manner.

(1) Does it make sense for scum me to disappear in the elimination phase when the IC says they hard TR me? Why would I not want to influence him in the wrong direction if I am scum?

(2) Does it make sense for scum me to not fight for being master but instead fight the person who has no real opposition?

I don't deny that I haven't really scum-hunted very much post Berserker flip,

There's something demotivating about spending so much energy on a game and being utterly wrong.

I told you I wanted to just kick off my shoes and be carried. That's still true.

I don't have trouble faking scum-hunting when I'm mafia. It's actually fairly trivial and easy for me to do. I have done everything in this game because I believe it is in the best interests of our town. If you disagree you can feel free to push through this mis-elim, that is fine with me.

I think you're capable of more as town and the fact that I haven't seen it is what concerns me. The self-defense that you "wouldn't play like this" as scum are just WIFOM. The question is not whether you

could

play differently, it's whether your behavior makes more sense from scum or town. And right now I'm not seeing much town.

"Avenger has to be scum becaue that is not how I would use a gladiate so thats not how town woild"

Is literallt the entirety of the argument that two of you are making

That's an exceptionally reductive take that completely ignores the circumstances of how the gladiate took place. And as I HAVE ALREADY CLARIFIED, my take there was made in the heat of the moment, where I was frustrated by 1. Our elected IC altslipping and having to be replaced 2. A sudden gladiate out of nowhere with little warning 3. The fact that this duel was interrupting a wagon on a scumread of mine. This is not all entirely rational. But it is how I felt at the time.

I have already said Avenger is not among my preferred vote targets now that I've had more time to think about it. You should be aware of this.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

VOTE: lancer i think this is overdue

I've already mentioned my experience with mastina is very limited.

But its enough for you to figure out she was the one behind the slot?

From her firsr post while I'm at it

Er, what? How is recognizing someone's posting style supposed to be scummy?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Because scum hardbussing in that manner defintely hasn't happened before.

I also defintely can't pull games up to show that it has happened before.

Why is that the almighty town indicator for you?

You could have been bussing moon cancer for a variety of reasons. From what i have read, alot of his posts were null, non existant, coasting and its the perfect bus for a buddy to get behimd on. I don't think your stance against that is indicative of anything

This atrocious logic. Anyone who voted Moon Cancer

could

have been bussing. What makes you think Lancer is likely to have done so? It can't just involve you not liking how they're talking to you. Lancer was probably the player who was most vocally critical of Moon Cancer and applied the most pressure there, when others were far more willing to give the slot a pass. Lancer also jumped ship from the E-2 Saber wagon to go back to Moon Cancer - if you believe Saber to be town, isn't such a move strongly town-indicate for Lancer? Why do you assume they're bussing? What posts can you point to and say, "This looks like bussing"? I want specifics.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Saber
Well, that is easy. Thanks for claiming scum.

The last, and only, specific reason to scumread Alter came from post 238. I don't find it convincing. How has that read matured over time and what specific posts can you point to as to support your conclusions?

That read has not changed. It is fully based on the early posts on Alter Ego having more evasive words in their posts than any normal townie. And no post of Alter Ego after that time has caused me to reconsider.

I think we have gotten everything we could have before the first elimination. We should move on.

^

Do we have thoughts on whether Moon Cancer posts this about Saber!Scum?

Do

you

have thoughts on it?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not really particularly convinced Saber is scum and a lot of the reasoning being thrown around is thin at best - not making sense and having delusional self-confidence aren't really scummy, and the idea that we have to elim someone just because they've claimed and some people are scumreading them is lazy. Wanting an info-flip based on master phase wagons seems like a fairly tenuous concept - if Saber flips town, what exactly do we learn?

But all that being said, they aren't a townread of mine, and some of their statements about Moon Cancer are fairly questionable, as Assassin highlights, so I wouldn't strongly oppose a flip there if that's where the momentum is headed.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't understand why Ruler selfvoted.

[Servant Alter Ego]

How would your stance change if it was revealed that saber was telling the truth about something?

What's this supposed to mean, exactly?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would suspect that, irrespective of alignment, Saber's claim is at least partially true. I could see some of those abilities being beneficial to either faction. Traffic Analyst, for instance, has utility for both town and scum, although it's probably stronger on the town side.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Let Foreigner answer for themself.

i start to feel that Alter is trying to pocket me now once that i got some town cred

That...wasn't a pocket attempt. I didn't want someone stepping in and answering questions for you. I wanted to see how you defended yourself so I could get a read on you.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'd like to give Saber a chance to post their final reads if they're town.


I'm conflicted because I'm not sure if Saber is the best target anymore, as my initial reasons for suspecting them might not have actually been that great, but I do have some doubts there. The more I think about it the more I think Moon Cancer's read flip there

could

be a bus, although he said so little about it it's hard to say with much confidence it does look like a bus. Still, I'd expect a scum in his bottom 3 reads in his second list and Foreigner looks better than Saber to me. But I still don't really feel confident in the flip for whatever reason.

[Servant Alter Ego]

No reads?

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Saber

Looks like they're not going to say anything more.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Foreigner

Changed my mind overnight. Think the comment crediting Saber for catching Moon is especially bizarre with the weirdness of his stance on Saber before that (didn't want the master vote but only called Saber nullish), looks like scum down a teammate who didn't want the wagon to shift to the other one.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Also would have been an overlap with Moon Cancer's skills, but that's more or less irrelevant now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

At this point the only realistic possibilities I see for scum are Foreigner, Caster, or maybe Rider. Probably autowin, tbh. Boring game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Kind of strange that the setup can apparently produce that many clears.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Catching up.

My issue with the Avenger-scum hypothesis is that for it to be true, it supposes Titus was doing nothing but bussing on day 1 (she jumped on Avenger in the duel and pushed fairly hard on him), and I'm not sure why that is somehow more plausible than all 3 wagons day 1 being on scum. To dismiss one of those as implausible but not the other seems like questionable logic.

[Servant Alter Ego]

How about this? If no one claims a valid role-related reason to believe the Miller claim, we eliminate Avenger today. If someone does, we do what you want [which I presume is eliminating Foreigner].

What kind of reason could you possibly be fishing for?

We already have evidence that there are investigative roles in this game, simply from the fact that we have a confirmed townie who is immune to investigations.

Like, people have said "I am surprised how many clears this set up can make" --- but like, having both a player immune to investigations and a player who is a miller is the counter to that.

Well, the problem with such reasoning is that none of the revealed roles actually function as a straight cop, so miller doesn't make sense in conjunction with those, in terms of balance. But I don't think this is particularly good reasoning for suspecting Avenger, because it's not like it's impossible for a red herring role to exist. My thoughts were more oriented toward the number of potential clear-generating roles seeming particularly high given the size of the setup.

Catching up.

My issue with the Avenger-scum hypothesis is that for it to be true, it supposes Titus was doing nothing but bussing on day 1 (she jumped on Avenger in the duel and pushed fairly hard on him), and I'm not sure why that is somehow more plausible than all 3 wagons day 1 being on scum. To dismiss one of those as implausible but not the other seems like questionable logic.

What would be the issue with Titus bussing all her partners on Day 1? Her goal was to be elected and be removed from the game.

Do you think it's more likely that town will just listen to all her reads after they know she was scum all along, or question the validity of her reads?

Er, you realize I am talking about Day 1, yes? As in, after she had already lost the Masterization vote? I'm not talking about WIFOM reads given out pre-election but all the things after that. I don't particularly think she was planning on just going down right away after not getting elected. Under your supposition, we end up with dueling scum/scum wagons on day 1, avenger interrupts them with a duel, and then Titus just votes avenger in that duel, when his flip likely makes them look worse as a result? It's just hard for me to believe you're somehow seeing this all as exonerating for Foreigner but bad for Avenger, somehow.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I am pretty sure it is.

What are your thoughts on Saber? You expressed a dislike of the lack of resistance to the master vote on them but haven't weighed in on the wagon on them.

haven't?

My NP is to shut down excessive stupid and pointless T v Ts by limiting the posting of one of the parties involved. Using it early ensures we get good focus and communication between town. It prevents scum from starting drama and trying to pin us against ourselves. Fighting amongst ourselves is how town lose games. I've seen it happen too many times over the years.

imagine being scum, who can claim anything and claim this crap or townie who thinks that this is the best thing for master
idk it feels like there would be some background plays in neighborhoods that no one informs us about, which caused this

There are enough better scums to burn but ppl prefer to follow them

So you think they're scummy but there are better votes? I don't understand why you're referring to background plays there. The statement you quoted makes you sound like you think they're dumb but not necessarily scum.

more like null, while others are scum

This was the sequence from foreigner I found rather bothersome in hindsight last night.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think the best way to explain that post is "Titus is making shit up"

[Servant Alter Ego]

I tried mining Saber's ISO for quotes and there's basically nothing useful. Actually impressive how empty it was. On Avenger:

the only logical explanation for this gamestate is second game thread, where decisions are being made
someone like avenger should be at L-1 right now

Why Avenger?

updated-ish reads

our lord and savior: Berserker
probtown: Alter/Archer/Caster/Shielder/Rider/Ruler/Foreigner
null-ish: Assassin/Saber/Beast
probscum: Avenger/Moon Cancer

I'd move Ruler down to null, Avenger up to Null

But Beast Avenger Moon Caster Assassin doesn't feel like a scumteam so these are individual reads not team based.

Then after the gladiate ends:

I think Avenger recalling the gladiate after seeing that he was going to lose it is very NAI survivalist. He can't very well do his scum agenda and/or push his Foreigner scumread if he's dead. Foreigner resistance actually increased as a result of the play there. I'm not sure what Avenger's intention was with recalling it but that's my best guess.

Meanwhile, Moon Cancer is still scum.

VOTE: Moon Cancer

Meanwhile, on Foreigner:

Scum in this situation can promise everything. Once they win elections they are tree stumped anyway, no risk of being killed for lieing. It shouldn't be used as indication.

I agree, which is why I don't claim anything that I can't back up or is extravagant. Second, I don't want to be a miselimination for overpromising and under delivering.

I like Foreigner as town.

I believe that the POE of {Alter Ego, Foreigner, Saber} has three scum. That obviously leaves one scum but I am sure we can find that one eventually.

Did you just POE in a game some people barely posted? So fake

Shielder hadn't even posted I believe.

Now kill cancer
VOTE: Moon

Why?

I want to vote Moon myself but I want to hear from Foreigner first. I also worry it's too easy because no one TRs Moon, yet I have been wrong there before.

For Avenger, I would hammer it if the majority decides he's a distraction. It's ego centric but Avenger gains little from defending me. Pushing me and foreigner benefits him more.

The behavior Avenger did is disruptive and arrogant but I struggle to slight him for it as my play required its own arrogance.

I'm very disinclined to follow onto Foreigner though given the wagons pregladiate.

I don't really think

any

of this is particularly partner-indicative or non-partner-indicative. It's too sparse for me to actually say anything meaningful about it. Is it lightly defending a teammate or just trying to make someone look like her teammate? I don't really know.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I agree.

My current theory is that scum wanted to preserve all avaliable miseliminations for later.

1) I get threatened for being weird.
2) Foreigner for being new.
3) Avenger for arrogance.

They hammer Avenger for the gladiate. Then listen to his read on Foreigner. Then come after me.

It's a strong chain that might save Moon.

Like, the sudden reversal here is so

weird

, looking back at it - like she really didn't want us to eliminate inside the duel after it ended.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops

Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

I agree with the last paragraph and I want to believe assassin is lying.

This is the weirdest thing to me because in context I thought she was attacking Avenger with this post, but prior to the duel she had him at weak town or null, so it doesn' really fit that way. She somehow saw a post attacking avenger and interpreted it the exact opposite way while saying she agreed with it.

I think that probably is a good look for Assassin, though.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would be fairly shocked if scum had extra kill power in a setup that starts off 10:4. That seems wildly imbalanced.

[Servant Alter Ego]

UNVOTE:

I'm not convinced it's a full clear because I don't think both kills came from scum but I don't want to dive too much into that speculative rabbit hole, but the claim at least merits consideration.

[Servant Alter Ego]

um... you think one of those was a vig shot?

Yes, because I don't think mafia has 2 kills.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You are key to shielder alignment

Why would...you not watch shielder then?

[Servant Alter Ego]

...but you can't clear anyone with a watcher check. What are you even trying to say?

[Servant Alter Ego]

The logic doesn't make sense because killing beast and revealing more information is a bad move for scum, not a good move

Do you think that he used his ability poorly, or do you think he is lying about his action?

It's a bafflingly bad choice of target, but that goes as either alignment, really. Town can make stupid, nonsensical choices just as much as scum can, but so far this game the ones making nonsensical claims have been scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Actually on that note I probably should ask avenger:

For the purposes of any role targeting you, are you considered aligned with the mafia? Or does that apply only to investigative roles meant to get a result on your alignment?

Investigative results only.
I'll be shown as either Mafia or a killer.
I'm town aligned so your power only fails on me if I'm actually scum.

This is an interesting way you worded this.

Do you believe your ability would work with investigative roles that don't exactly determine mafia/killer?

Would say, a Tracker always track you to the night kill?

No, it's only for Mafia/Killer results.
A tracker, watcher, motion sensor etc will always pick me up.

If you scan as guilty to all investigative results, why did you not specify this when you claimed? "miller" implies a very specific role quality and this is a significantly broader scope than what you originally suggested.

[Servant Alter Ego]

...Can you not do that if you're town? Just play the game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I really don't understand what's got you so upset as to selfvote.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would personally prefer for Foreigner to not throw a tantrum over getting scumread and actually respond to people. It's not like anyone is forcing them to be in this game. Just incredibly childish play right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Right now I'm imagining Foreigner as a teenager locking themself in their room because their video games got taken away by their parents.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well, anyway, I got bored since the game is impossibly slow right now, so I went and reread some things.

@Avenger,

can you walk me through your trajectory on Saber? You went from initially not liking her for the master vote because "something seems off"...

VOTE: Berserker

Out of the 3 options I only like Beserker.

@Avenger, That is palpably not true. I see very little difference between this phase and a typical D1 of any game. In fact I'd argue the game rolls a bit faster here simply because of the unique mechanic. Please, pretend!

Okay, I think you're scum.
Gut feeling, hard to explain.

I like Beserkers posting, town minded.

Something seems off with Saber.

There you go.

The question is, is it actually better for scum if they hit their own in the master phase?
I doubt it. Having an additional person to decieve is a lot stronger. I wouldn't assume that the powers are of equal value to towns, with a great boost on a scum flip. It makes something that is easily manipulated into a strange reward on scum, rather than a balancing mechanism.
I also doubt that scum will be pushing their own without a larger majority pushing for a slot. Therefore if any of the 3 for masters flip scum I'm inclined to think its town voting there, or at least being vocal.

So you're right, I've mis spoken by saying RVS, but more like day 1 where its irrelevant to my thinking until I see information.
Or until I see something that I just don't like.

But come day 1, that feeling seemed to have disappeared, and instead you were resistant to the push on Saber based on her claim:

I'm not sure how I feel on Sabers claim as scummy here.
What's the thought of it being scummy? The fact Saber said it was powerful late game or because of the power?

If you don't believe that Saber thought it was a powerful role then why do they claim it here? Either Saber thinks its powerful as either align or keeps quiet if scum who doesn't think it's a powerful role.

Let's put it this way though, how often are millers dealt with?
More than not. I personally think that the general meta should be Miller claims do not make MyLo unless confirmed town.
I also think that a vig should always shoot a miller claim regardless of what has happened. Therefore, it's actually a stupid play from scum to claim (hence why the meta should remain regardless).

I don't survive to end game, and I'm not going to be pushing back on that later.
I have 2 additional roles though, 1 is either for or against scum (and low key ironic for me to get), and 1 is anti scum in this setup.
Both of these are also provable, the first at any point in the day and the second at the end of the day.

Here's some food for thought though, and I've been thinking this over for the last day to if I should say or not, and I've decided I want to since Lancer and Foreigner are shading and most likely contain 1-2 scum.
In addition, my power up power thing is the same Sabres. Originally I read Sabres comment as it's better late game, and that is my view on it.
So my thoughts here are
A) if anyone else at all has this power, then its plausible to be town or at least irrelevant to thought right now and I think Sabre is town anyway.
B) if only me and Sabre have this power then it's likely 1 of us is scum and 1 of us is town. Obviously in this situation, I would claim the town.

If its A, I'm probably going to use my first power on Foreigner if the votes are not going there.

Why claim now? It's not like anyone was voting you.

Because there's a chance that me and Sabre are half matching and different alignment. That's why I want to know if even a single other person also has our power up thing.
If not, and it is only me and Sabre with it, I have more to offer that suggests Saber scum.
I do think it's most likely others with it too though, but if I'm wrong there then either me or Saber should be scum here.

I want to see what Saber full claims as well.

Me claiming what I have and advising I have other powers too isn't something I'm in worry about.
If I'm the scum NK, then it's a bonus. If I get to effectively use my powers, thats even better.
Or I'm just scum and this is all irrelevant.

Avenger, no one else has claimed the same NP as you and saber. why are you not voting for saber? why would you gladiate foreigner and not saber?

Answer this too please.

I did answer.
I explained why I did this and why I'm not voting Sabre.

So, I have a couple questions based on this: why did Saber no longer seem "off" to you ater the Masterization phase? Why, if you thought Saber could be scum if it was only you two with the post restricting NP, did you decide to not wait until everyone had confirmed this, but instead gladiate Foreigner? Why did you not pressure or question Saber at all yourself? Further...

This has like, nothing to do with saber's play. Can you explain why the claim is strong enough to change your earlier view about there being 1 scum and 1 town in an NP pairing?

Because Saber has an anti scum power.

This has like, nothing to do with saber's play. Can you explain why the claim is strong enough to change your earlier view about there being 1 scum and 1 town in an NP pairing?

Because Saber has an anti scum power.

Which of those abilities is anti-scum?

Giving NP power.
Scum having the power to give it to themselves is not happening.
Plus giving to anyone but the confirmed town is a scum claim, so it's a useless scum NP.

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

Why did you simply take her claim at face value? Why was this enough for you to change your read, irrespective of the rest of her play? What happened to your earlier skepticism of you having the same NP? I can't follow your thought process here at all. Can you walk me through it?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Actually on that note I probably should ask avenger:

For the purposes of any role targeting you, are you considered aligned with the mafia? Or does that apply only to investigative roles meant to get a result on your alignment?

Investigative results only.
I'll be shown as either Mafia or a killer.
I'm town aligned so your power only fails on me if I'm actually scum.

This is an interesting way you worded this.

Do you believe your ability would work with investigative roles that don't exactly determine mafia/killer?

Would say, a Tracker always track you to the night kill?

No, it's only for Mafia/Killer results.
A tracker, watcher, motion sensor etc will always pick me up.

If you scan as guilty to all investigative results, why did you not specify this when you claimed? "miller" implies a very specific role quality and this is a significantly broader scope than what you originally suggested.

Would like an answer to this, Avenger.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Would like an answer to this, Avenger.

Because you're thinking of Ninja, not Miller.
A Miller doesn't return a fake result to a motion detector or a tracker etc...

To clarify as your wording is strange for me to understand.
By me saying that a tracker and roles will always pick me up, that is if I do an action it will tell the truth and pick me up, not that a tracker will say that I did something when I didn't.

I thought that part was clear by me saying "No, it's only for Mafia/Killer results."

Okay, had been interpreting "will pick me up" as meaning you'd return a guilty result to them, too. That at least makes sense.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I was leaning against eliming Avenger, for a mechanical reason (that I do not wish to reveal the details of)

The more I think about it, the more it will not be the end of the world if we do shoot him, so I won't hard defend against it anymore I guess.

I still think I am most suspicious of Foreigner atm, but could be swayed to shoot someone else, including Avenger.

I miss having notscience to just fall back on to lead

I'm not sure it's worth agonizing over, at this point. I'd kill either of them, we have eliminations to spare if we're wrong. Don't find Avenger's answers to me really satisfactory, think his trajectory on both moon cancer and saber yesterday is baffling, at this point I've shifted to feeling like foreigner is bad town but if they're going to play like this I'll gladly vote them out of policy.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Foreigner seems to be avoiding the thread now. I think I officially no longer care if he's town.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It shouldn't take someone 2 days to claim their role.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You could just vote them now, you know.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I need to bait someone into letting me hammer, though.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Foreigner

[Servant Alter Ego]

Thank you.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If they're town they're a worthless POS who deserved to die anyway.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Boo hoo, you fucking baby. How hard is it to claim your role when asked?

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Rider

[Servant Alter Ego]

Caster clear is good, removes any lingering paranoia I had there although most of that went with the Foreigner flip.

Only need to clear 2 of me/Assassin/Avenger/Beast/Rider to win. I think it's probably just rider, though.

Can probably have people that haven't claimed do so to see if we can mechanically lock this up? Berserker already has my claim.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I can confirm receipt of the charm, although it says it blocks a "negative status debuff", which I don't think applies to roleblocks. (Have the been any negative or positive status effects this game?) Regardless, clearing one more person still should be a win.

I don't really think the way Foreigner went after Avenger is at all likely to be teamed, to be honest. It's somewhat puzzling why he just laid down and died yesterday rather than claiming but I assume he just didn't want to try, I doubt it was a tactical planking to save Avenger.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm still here but am not sure what to say. I think people are looking too much at the claim and not at the events of the game. I still don't really think the specific way Foreigner attacked Avenger makes sense as scum/scum, and if the point of the gladiate was to give one of them towncred, I'm not sure why Avenger even calls it off in the first place.

[Servant Alter Ego]

...I'm not sure why they chose that kill, out of all possible targets. Yes, he was conf-town, but the new Berserker had pretty much stopped doing anything. The reveal is unsurprising.

I suppose I should out now that I neighborized Berserker on day 1. This was part of why I was so...distraught at notscience altslipping. Yes, I knew he vigged Ruler on night 1. No, he did not consult me on this decision. I had known a few details of his role. I'm not sure what use it would be, but I could summarize the contents of the hood?

I also knew he was in another hood, not sure how much he should say about that or if he told them anything about my role info.

I started rereading overnight and have much less confidence than I did yesterday. I started getting paranoid about Beast but had to stop as it was 2:30 AM.

[Servant Alter Ego]

...oh my fucking god, he could have vigged literally anyone if he wanted to and he chose Ruler anyway because of the name reveal

[Servant Alter Ego]

What the fuck, Gamma

[Servant Alter Ego]

We could have been in AUTOWIN

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't want to pin the blame on one person if we end up somehow losing this game but that is seriously egregious. I'm so annoyed I can't bring myself to actually think about solving.

[Servant Alter Ego]

he chose Ruler anyway because of the name reveal

sorry, can you explain this part?

how come you're just realizing this stuff now?

Ruler being revealed as Jeanne D'Arc meant that they were definitely good-aligned and a valid vig target for Berserker.

He didn't claim the other parts of his role to me, and I just now saw that he could have made

anyone

good-aligned for the purpose of his NP, making them a vig target.

His rationale for shooting Ruler was because they had hard defended the mafia eliminations on day 1. He didn't consult me so I didn't get to explain to him that mastina was 99% town because of how she had been casing Saber. I was fairly irritated when he told me on day 2.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'd like to not get lazy now. I want to continue the work I did overnight of reviewing Rider and Beast. I don't want the game to go to day 5. (I think, aside from mechanics, there are play-based reason to think both Caster and Assassin are town)

[Servant Alter Ego]

Did you know Cabd once designed a setup with a town poison healer that had no poisoner role?

[Servant Alter Ego]

At this point in time, everyone is going to be able to give fairly convincing reasons as to why they're town. It's not going to be easy. Whoever is the last scum has played well while the rest of the team folded. The job, at this point, is going to be going back and trying to find reasons someone fits as the last scum.

I can say, though, that I wouldn't have immediately started pushing the mafia strongman in the master phase, I wouldn't have helped build the Berserker counterwagon to Saber in the master phase, I wouldn't have neigborized the clear Berserker and then spend all of my effort convincing him to wagon mafia and not town, especially Moon Cancer, when several town players were inexplicably willing to give him a pass. I definitely don't kill Berserker last night, cutting off access to the 12 pages of me solving behind the scenes. Basically none of my play makes sense as scum.

I also claimed my abilities to Berserker in the hood. My first skill is a confirmable action that I haven't used, because after 2 scum went down day 1, using it would have been mostly anti-town. There's no way in hell I would have actually trueclaimed this ability to confirmed town as scum, because it makes me accountable for using it, and honestly the ability sounds scummy. I'd just lie and claim something else so that I could actually use it.

Caster, did Berserker tell you at all about my claim after you were cleared? I wish I had a better way of asking this but I don't, really.


I tried looking at interactions from Saber/Foreigner during the last night phase to see if there was anything, and came away with very, very little. There were a few moments that sparked paranoia of Beast for me, though. That's why I want to look at the trajectories of Beast and Rider over the game, see if I can find anything there instead.

[Servant Alter Ego]

My abilities are:

A 2-shot skill that inflicts a debuff on the target that prevents them from using skills or gaining NP stars. The target is informed they have had this happen to them. I haven't used this at all, I had debated doing so night 1 but decided the potential downside of blocking a town PR wasn't worth the upside of blocking scum.

A 1-shot neighborize, where I can select up to 2 targets. I can only neighborize targets that are of the chaotic or evil alignment, though. I chose Berserker because he was the IC + had a high probability of being a valid target. My other likely choices at the time, Caster and Assassin, had seemed to indicate they weren't targetable, so I went for Archer, because even though my read on him wasn't as strong at the time and I somewhat distrusted him openly requesting to get into the hood, I didn't think there were many other good targets (Lancer was improbable to be recruitable based on the alignment distribution of the class). Obviously, it didn't work, Archer apparently did not pick up the meaning of my crumb that I only worked on chaotic or evil targets.

My third ability gives me and anyone in my hood an extra NP star. I used it last night, Berserker told me not to use it on night 2, I'm guessing because he commuted then.

My NP lets me seal another Servant's NP for 5 phases (day/night counting as separate phases).


I claimed all of this to Berserker in the hood on day 1. On day 2, Gamma-zerker informed me he'd been added to a hood with Caster, asked if my third skill worked across multiple hoods, I said no. When Caster became cleared by investigation, he

should

have conveyed this information to her, but given how completely apathetic he was, I'm not sure he did. It would be useful if she could confirm it, though, since it'd at least show I made my claim at the first availabe opportunity.


Truthfully, I'm not strongly about to put emphasis on the mechanical stuff because half of my abilities sound scummy, while the scum had abilities that sound fairly townsided, although they never actually claimed them. Dayplay is going to take precedence over any claims.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I hadn't really been considering Assassin to begin with, but I suppose the additional assurance is good. To be honest, though, I wish you had kept that hidden rather than outing it..


Still working on finding time to reread, apologies for being slow.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If he was suspicious of me, he had every opportunity to mention it to Caster. Or, literally in the thread. I'm also not sure him not sharing abilities would qualify as "distrust" so much as "Gamma not giving a shit", which would be very in-character.

(Also, like I said earlier, I don't claim that stuff to the IC on day 1 if I'm scum)

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well, that's why I'm

hoping

he sent it to Caster, so it can actually be confirmed. Gamma wasn't the most responsive in the hood. But again I feel like me having that blocking ability and actively choosing not to use it shows town motivation, because there'd be no reason to holster it as scum when already at a disadvantage.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Rereading taking notes, hoping I'll be able to synthesize it into something useful and ask some questions tomorrow.

Thought cropped up in my head, though - Beast, why 'd you target Caster with your second investigation, again?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Why'd you think Caster could be scum? To me, I had lingering doubts on her but I thought Foreigner's flip spewed her as town.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Why'd you think Caster could be scum? To me, I had lingering doubts on her but I thought Foreigner's flip spewed her as town.

I thought that during the selection phase they might've overdone it so to speak, A sort of reverse TMI. that bothered me. Plus they were suspicious of me and seemed to be lining me up, so I didn't want to day solve when a clear check would do. There was only one scum left, so I was like, probably a good choice. I don't really remember anything particularly clearing Caster based on their interactions with Foreigner. Could you show me what led you to think they were less likely to be scum?

Foreigner had been aggressively casing Caster during the master phase, she was his first real scum read and pursued her pretty sonsistently. (I had actually thought he was town for a while simply because I did not think scum would pursue such an unpopular read so aggressively). The scum team was very bus-happy, but generally most scum don't star off bussing with their first case. Additionally, when I reviewed during the night I hadn't felt like Caster's responses to Foreigner looked aligned.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well, "casing" as much as he was capable of, anyway.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Just accdentally closed my notes for the second time in a row while trying to compile posts. Fuck it, I'm done working on this game for tonight.

I would appreciate it if Lancer/Caster would be here to talk more.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't have conclusions to present to you yet, no. I was in the middle taking notes on Beast still before I decided to stop. Was just wondering if you had any questions to ask, I suppose.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I can confirm that Zerker was very apathetic in the hood with me and it felt like he didn't really give a shit.


He didn't tell me he was in a hood with anyone else.

I have some thoughts about who I want between the three suspects but I'm not ready to post them yet and I'd like them to continue to joust between each other for who they want to eliminate.

...for fuck's sake, gamma, she was cleared. How does she get told less than me?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I guess that at least confirms that I didn't kill him because he was secretly on to me. I had been trying to sell him on Rider since night 2. Started having doubts last night but at that point in time he probably wasn't reading.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Will still summarize the content of the hood if anyone wants to hear it from me.

[Servant Alter Ego]

There continues to be a lack of back and forth that was present in their earlier analysis in the game.

Explain? I felt like the opposite in my review, his analysis earlier in the game was much more succint, he only really opened up starting on day 2. That was actually part of why I was suspicious of him.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You've played inflexibly the whole game. People tend to think that scum don't play that way, but I think that there's definitely a stubborn scum archetype out there that you fit. Have you ever interacted in real time with any of the members of the scum team rider? I'm trying to remember if you have.

As a side note, please jump in Alter, I swear to god if you just smile vacantly off to the side while town 1v1 to death as I go into a paranoia spiral I will be this guy -> post game.

Assassin's post makes sense.

Sorry, it's been a very long day for me and I'm only just getting to the game now.

I'm pretty sure Lancer is the strongest clear mechanically.

Kind of want to hear Alter Ego's Rider case now.

I don't have a full-blown case. My feeling yesterday was "Dont really think it's avenger, he's been the least towny of anyone who isn't cleared (or "cleared"). Going through the ISO, I have some points on why he

could

be scum. But it's not concrete. I have views for both possible worlds right now (yes, yes, I know I'm fencesitting). What I'm trying to figure out is what's more likely. But I still need to get through a bit more review first. Hopefully sometime tonight.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Beast, what in particular made you believe Saber was town early in the game? You were confident on that read but never particularly elaborated on why.

[Servant Alter Ego]

In fact we should elect Beast. He made the most posts. If he flips town then we can use his vocality to lead and if he flips scum then scum loses the most influential player.

I hope this is a joke post

@Foreigner, are you role playing? In regards to being a foreigner who speaks English as a second language I mean. I feel like I've been reading too deeply into your posts. Your focus seems pretty evenly distributed.

@Archer, I think it's a joke based on their sense of humor. Then again, they have been arguing that the one with the most activity should be mastered, but I took that as a tongue in cheek thing.

@Pedit: I mostly just put rider in there because they hadn't said or done much. It's a pressure thing in the absence of real scum reads that aren't extremely conflicted.

Well, yeah. I had an agenda. I thought Saber was town and had a powerful ability that would be put to good use. I also could empathize with their approach to trying to get the town master slot.
I don't get why you think people are throwing town reads around like candy. It's more like we just don't really explain ourselves. I do that in part because it can put the scum team off balance (or, I'm just scum and have no reasons, teehee)

Rider's post is interesting but need to think on it a lot more to determine if that's coming from town or scum. I'm allergic to long form, well thought out posts. For example I can't tell if Rider is truly weighing my posts and intentions, or going back and forth and just waiting to see where the wind blows before settling down.

As for foreigner, I've just looked at their posts and I find it odd how evenly distributed their addresses to other players are, the general lack of nuance and a confidence that doesn't make sense to me.

Can you clarify what you meant by foreigner's focus seeming "evenly distributed"? I don't understand what you meant by this.

[Servant Alter Ego]

How he engaged with people didn't seem natural from a (fuzzy) statistical perspective. Human brains like to look for patterns, one of mine is just running background bandwidth usage for keeping track of who addresses who and how many words they used to address them and noticed that they seemed to be an outlier in this regard. It was kind of just based on personal experience, an oddity and a question mark to add.

We don't I think naturally talk to every player the same amount. My computer is struggling.

I asked a similar question to Titus when I noticed they hadn't addressed me but had been addressing other players.

I had definitely noticed that tendency in your posting to be paying an unusual amount of attention toward who was interacting wtih who. I'm still not sure I understand it, though. Was the assumption that Foreigner was being deliberate in acting with everyone equally? I feel like most people, even as scum, don't really put that much consideration into their interactions.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm kind of leaning towards Alter Ego being the last scum now because I kind of feel like they are just kind of fence sitting a letting the Rider/Beast 1v1 play out.

Both Rider/Beast sound more genuine in their convictions/beliefs in these last few days, whereas Alter Ego sounds more fence-sitty/careful.

I still don't know who they prefer to execute?

Also on reread there are parts of Alter Ego's iso that I'm not quite fond of on first two skims I will outline them later.

The thing is, I don't really know who I want to execute either. I feel like as scum it would be easy for me to pick an angle of attack and go with it, but I've been trying to read back and actually weigh the options. I know I've been slow about it. But I'm getting to it this morning.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It doesn't make sense because from what I see of Kerset, he is not a very mean person from what I know of him?


I really feel like this kind of conversation just came out of nowhere.. and it would make sense if it boiled over from an argument they were having in the Scum PT because why would Town be arguing with Scum in this way?

I...actually thought he was town at the time. Just town that had given up on trying to play the game in any reasonable fashion and had to be policied. I know I've lacked control at times but I'd like to think I would be able to keep my feelings out of the main thread if I were scum who had an issue with my teammates.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Spoiler: Long Reread

43
63 Initially questions Saber's NP Choices.
92 Kind of a Fence-Sitty/Noncommital.
108 Shades Assassin's Claim
111 Supports Saber's "caginess"
114
119 This is an interesting sequence, question then supports the person who is susp of them?
125 Not sure I believe this statement.

There's a back and forth between Alter Ego / Beast that kind of seems pointless? I'm not sure Alter Ego is playing to determine Beast's alignment as much as they are trying to win the word battle.

233 Decent interaction with Moon Cancer - Challenges them on the scumread. I however get the sense that Alter Ego feels more confident interacting with MC/Foreigner than for example Beast in an adversarial manner - it feels like they are more aggressive in this post than when they play footsie with Beast.

244 Rebukes Beast pushing for Saber by preferring Assassin/Berserker

335 Votes for Berserker

Another shit fight with Beast over some stuff that's kind of meh? I dunno what's going on here.


435 Doesn't like Avenger


441 Defends Foreigner?


449 Reads-list here

479 Re-iterates Moon Cancer is bad

533 Defends Foreigner's "anti-consensus" read on Caster

553 Defends Foreigner's statement about their notification PM


557 Continued Defense of Foreigner

some more fighting with Beast here.


733 is convinced Caster is town because of her terrible "case" on berserker

They invite berserker to self-hammer and their reaction to the self hammer troll is:


739
742
743

I dunno about this reaction. In the moment I felt it was pretty townie but I guess feelings fade with time? I wouldn't say it's impossible for this to be faked to be townread?

I have a lot of paranoia now :< I have seen scum use faked "twilight" reactions to get townread and I've read this over and over again and I'm not sure I am as sure this is a town reaction anymore.

813 Tells Foreigner to let me go as I am town. <3 Such a sweetie I feel so bad about this paranoia (⌒_⌒;)


866 Readlist - tries to reorient Foreigner?


867 Shades Saber for "fading"


906
911

Pretty good reaction to Saber claim, definitely doesn't feel planned out or S/S :<

937

First vote on the Saber wagon - pretty good post

1041 Pretty good post? I'm feeling like if AE is scum I'm just ending up pocketed all over again :<


1060 Back to Moon Cancer


1076 Am I being paranoid or does it feel like Alter Ego is deciding which scum-bus will set their team up better for the long term?


1083 Campaigning for Moon Cancer death.

Its at this point Notty gets iced and then the Gladiate happens.

AE goes very hard against Avenger and that makes a lot of sense, a lot of what they say is very passionate and emotional and I'm not sure scum!AE would be capable of going that hard versus a townie who had just gladiated their scum partner.

1184
1186

this sequence in particular feels quite over the top if they really are scum defending scum!foreigner here.

mm did I manage to get pocketed by AE a second time? I'm quite tired and I'll continue this tomorrow I guess.

A...second time? I'm not sure what you mean >_>

[Servant Alter Ego]

So let me try to summarize my findings here:

Rider:

+ Critical of Saber from early on, consistently kept up pressure on her (490 625 821 855 935 938 1510)
+ Play wasn't particularly attention grabbing or trying to look town
+ Voted Moon Cancer without much fuss, comments on him were decent (492 855 912)

- Was wrong on Foreigner and attempted to defend him using wagonomics reasoning. 921 also raises my eyebrow in concern because he appears to be doing a bit of speaking for Foreigner in that post. In general was somewhat protective of Foreigner (821 913 1426 1445 1711). Of course, I don't have much room to speak, I think my read there wasn't good for most of the game.
- Doesn't really have much at all in the way of interactions with flipped scum.
- Read on Beast has been fairly static. He's consistently reading him as scum for most of the game, where I sort of expect townies to maybe show some evolution and growth in their reads, re-evaluation or second guessing, but he's mostly kept the same stance on him while not pressing it much because it wasn't viable on previous days.
- Claim is somewhat strange, it seems a fairly odd choice to have not redirected investigations to himself if he can clear himself that way. But I'm not sure how to weigh balance in a setup like this
- Effort level increased sharply after Moon Cancer and Saber were eliminated, started trying to influence the game more.

I'm not even sure how strongly I feel about that last point, writing it out like that. Most players tend to fade and lose motivation when their team is doing badly. But that was how my brain saw it during day 2. Looking at the list, I struggle to come up with great points for town reading Rider. That was more or less why I voted him on day 3, simply for lack of towniness.

Beast:

+ Was hard after Foreigner for most of the game (450 657 827 842 856 891 918 920 960 1026 1321 1331 1598 1602 1615)
+ Voting Foreigner instead of Moon Cancer feels out of sync with Saber and Foreigner both piling on Moon Cancer together
+ Did immediately attack Foreigner for his very questionable night action claim, very possible he legitimately targeted Beast?
+ Claim of a clear on Shielder was bold and came at a time that wouldn't make much sense for scum
+ Clearing multiple people as scum feels like very suboptimal play
+ It makes more sense for there to be a town investigative role of some sort in the setup?

- Attempted to soft-pedal the wagons on both Saber and Moon Cancer. His reads on them shifted from qualified defenses to "Okay, I can see them as scum" as pressure on both mounted.

368 can be seen as downplaying the votes on Moon Cancer a bit, raises an objection in 1306 but then does a fairly quick turnaround and votes in 1311. Doesn't comment much on Moon otherwise.

Saber was a townread in 328 563 but starts to downgrade it to a more uncertain read in 826 and 896, hedging with a "I could very well have been wrong" as the thread is beginning to turn on Saber, but still tries to save them with 1026, only to finally turn around in 1069, witch justification coming in 1329 and 1330 that feels like it's...following other people's criticisms of Saber's claim? I'm not really sure why it took him so long to turn around on that claim if he found the reasoning believable. It's also a bit odd that he assumes Saber is lying about their NP, rather than thinking they had made an exaggerated claim in the first phase to try to get voted. The NP claim was so underwhelming, I wouldn't assume the ability itself was a lie, that's something I'd reserve more for a claim that sounded too good to be true (which was what turned me off Assassin initially)

- This is such a silly thing, but I feel like 1364 and 1365 may have been an attempt to dumbtell? It felt like it was laying things on too thickly. It was immediately obvious that moon cancer flipped scum from their entire role card being in red text.
- Was aggressively pushing for Saber to win the master vote without much explanation. This opens a significant WIFOM rabbit hole as to whether scum would really push so aggressively for one of their own in the opening phase. I feel obligated to mention that notscience was paranoid that Beast was the type to go for "big wins". I dislike the fact that he was confident on pushing Saber and tried to end the phase early but never really explained why until I asked about it. It seems easier to push and then make up an excuse after the fact for being wrong, rather than giving reasons at the time that people might look into and criticize. The fact that he made 857 actually bothers me significantly, it feels like a pre-emptive "Why would I do this as scum?" defense.
- Seemedly oddly self-aware about his interactions with the scum? In the instance of both Saber and Foreigner he made comments specifically about them not interacting with him, which is an...odd thing for someone to be paying attention to.

1026 to Moon Cancer is a "why him and not me?" comment.
468 is Saber making a comment concerned about Beast not explaining his townread on Saber. His response in 476 is relatively brusque, it doesn't feel like there's any desire to address Saber's suspicion. Then this is followed by 1054 and 1057 where he specifically makes mention of Saber ignoring him, which is very odd because as far as I can tell he wasn't really trying to speak specifically to Saber at that point in time.
1615 is also him calling out foreigner for "Their interest in shading some players for infractions on general rules while ignoring my own infractions."

With every scum, he seems hyper-aware of them ignoring him and feels a need to comment on it. The focus feels unnatural.

- His reasons for scum reading Foreigner still don't really make sense to me. The "evenly distributed focus" thing is not something I've seen anyone use and I don't really understand how it's supposed to indicate scum. I also don't think Kerset is particularly deliberate about playing scum in that fashion. In general even though he did come around to scum reading all the scum, his reasons feel made up to me.
- Soft clear on Foreigner feels like it could have been an attempt to shift attention away from them without having to comment on his play or truly reverse his read.
- Seemed cognizant of the unlikelihood of Avenger being teamed with Foreigner (1663), but went ahead with pushing for his elimination anyway.
- The clear on Caster feels like a suspect investigation choice. In my mind, Rider would've been the first person I checked after Day 2.


I think this is the primary question in my mind: In a world where Beast is town, why is he both alive and not roleblocked after day 2? Why does scum!Rider play day 2 hard defending Foreigner like his life depends on it, if he knows there's a heavy risk of him drawing an investigation or roleblock if it fails and Foreigner gets flipped? By contrast, the claim from Beast is perfect for scum - no one is going to jailkeep or roleblock a claimed investigative, no matter how suspect they look. I think Occam's razor here points me in the direction of Beast being scum.

As I write this out, I feel like the issues I have with Beast keep piling up, I was expecting this to be relatively small but I kept finding things to write about.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Actually, the 842 from Beast feels odd in sequence looking at it with the rest of what I've cited, because although he calls out the Foreigner vote as a bus vote he stays away from the wagon for quite some time after that, and I'm not sure why you'd do that if you felt Moon was being bussed. Undoubtedly Moon's PRs were higher value.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I did go through Saber/Foreigner last night to look at interactions with Rider and Beast, I'll quote the posts I found here for reference:

It also seems strange to have a miller and a "miller-proof" cop - unless we also have a non-miller proof cop, and I don't know how likely it is that Cabd would give us multiple cops

Considering that a lot of these super abilities are probably ***** and that it would take 5 days/nights to charge, most of these abilities will probably not see usage without outside help.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

I agree with the last paragraph and I want to believe assassin is lying.

And I don't really believe the miller claim and feel like it was mostly done in reaction to Assassin indicating he had a cop-like ability.

in fact late miller claims are often fake. Scum likes to wait and claim miller once they are sure that no one less does it.

I went back through Foreigner's iso and haven't seen anything resembling game solving for today. I also feel very unenthused by the self-vote since Ruler already tried the same stunt on Day 1.

Anyhow, my sleep schedule is in chaos and I need to take a nap before work.

Solve? I get scumreads even for solving Cancer.

In general there's a paucity of interactions around Rider. One of the earliest tells I learned was that scum will often talk with/interact with their teammates less. But I've been led astray by that tell a few times before. In particular, with Rider's activity level being fairly low for most of day 0/1, there would naturally have been less opportunities to interact with him even if he's town. I don't think the interactions I've quoted are particularly telling in one way or the other.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Whereas Saber's handling of Beast seemed quite strange to me. There's an awkwardness to it where they seemed to be almost talking past one another. It feels almost distinctly anti-pockety, where I'd expect scum who is trying to shore up a Master vote would be trying to remain in the good graces of the people supporting them. That threw me off Saber for a while because I didn't think scum would be critical of the voters on their wagon.

The point of hesitation is as to whether Titus would really distance from two separate teammates with the "buddying" criticism. But she was fairly off this game and at best that's a WIFOM rabbit hole. I can hardly claim it's damning evidence but it makes me scratch my chin slightly.

Is there some reason you're pretending to be Fferylit AE? Just like, trying out a new style because it's an anon game or? It's worth trying to read you early I think.

Can anyone answer that within the rules?

I'm going to head to bed and pray that what I fear will happen won't actually happen. Don't ask me as I don't want to manifest that energy into the universe.

I'm not going to get mod-killed (I hope) for asking why they started off with a catch phrase from a player that can't be in this game.

That's not what I am concerned with and I'd never hint at a modkill. That's against the rules.

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I haven't directly stated my role...

Why should I want to give Saber the master? Something that is not about mechanics.

@Beast

When you're scum hunting would you say you identify scum more often than average?

My scumhunting prowess is largely dependent on the environment I get and my own personal life.

My townhunting is where it's at.

Why should I want to give Saber the master? Something that is not about mechanics.

@Beast

[Servant Alter Ego]

As for Foreigner, these interactions with Beast were also in the "weird, don't know if it's partner-indicative or just Kerset being odd" camp:

ngl, every time Archer posts I want to tease them relentlessly for their shoe-string rationales.
Jokes on me if they're scum tho.

What is this supposed to mean?

I'm saying they're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice. Their thinking is messy and seems pretty gut based. If they're town.

still better then ruler in this matter

It is not a response, it is my opinion. Idk what is your problem

The simplest interpretation is that they're trying to read you. You're a problem that they wish to solve

you didn't answer anything, why that post is out of place, why it has to be a response

I'm pretty sure that actually, I misread their intent and your interpretation of their intent makes more sense in context. That looks like supporting evidence on second look.

@Foreigner. Sorry could you reword that? I don't understand what you're referring to.

This quote in response to Avenger's 400 bothered me because it seemed to be attempting to answer for Foreigner, in a way:

Avenger, I'm pretty sure if you read that again you'll note that they're saying you're more likely to be town by claiming miller on your first post.

In particular, this next quote is odd, because he feels the need to respond to a "vanity vote" criticism of Beast with a defense. Why does he bother doing this for a town player?

VOTE: Shielder

On a side note, this is a vanity vote

Thats not true, we are not trying to elect US president. Just pick one out of 14 of us

[Servant Alter Ego]

But those are less important than these, the quotes that started my full-blown paranoia spiral:

In fact we should elect Beast. He made the most posts. If he flips town then we can use his vocality to lead and if he flips scum then scum loses the most influential player.

Off the table: Servants Moon Cancer, Beast. Not because they are my strongest pure of heart reads, but because they are the most likely to be falsely accused on D1 when they are pure of heart.

As i kid during winter i didn't wear a hat, because i was annoyed that parents insisted that i wear it. In the end i just harmed myself for no reason.
I see similar behavior in your posting.

Scum have no incentive to kill beast because that leaves shielder alive and confirms that shielder is town. It’s weird that you think they would want to do that and confirm shielder.

ok i will remind you about this after game, if beast doesn't reach endgame.

And I said to myself

what the fuck is this?

Is Foreigner taunting us by lampshading the deepwolf? The comment about voting for Beast was so

random

. Why does scum ever make that comment about a town player, in particular one who isn't close to being in contention for the master vote? The easiest explanation to my mind is attempted distancing. The comment to mastina about her reads being like "harming yourself for no reason". The townread on moon was in there too, of course, but in combination with these other points, feels specifically like a "ha your townreads are terrible" comment. I feel like he'd be less likely to dump on her reads if it was only Moon that was incorrect.


Maybe this will seem incredibly silly to the rest of you. But this was what inspired me to freak out and begin doubting my read overnight, and now I keep seeing reasons for Beast being scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

In the hopes of alleviating Caster's suspicions of me, I'm going to shift focus here and summarize the interactions between me and notscience/Gamma in the neighborhood, to hopefully convey what was going on between us:

To start things off, I make a comment about solving the game, notscience responds enthusiastically by saying he's down. He was immediately suspicious of Beast and felt he should go next if Saber flipped red. He thought it was suspicious how quickly Beast got to the thread after he hammered himself in the master phase. Asked me what my thoughts on Saber and Beast were. Says he doesn't see himself eliminating Lancer or Archer, he's not sure what to think of Foreigner, felt Assassin backtracking on his role was awkward but wasn't sure if his investigation-immune role existed with Avenger's Miller claim. Felt Caster was fine except that her wall on him felt like she was doubting her read on him while doing it.

My first real content post is a very long explanation of my neighborize ability and my rationale for my neighborize targets. I believe I already mentioned it, but I had considered Caster and Assassin, but both had seemingly indicated my ability was unable to work on them. I admittedly was biased toward voting Berserker in the master phase because if he was town, I felt there were good odds I would be able to neighborize him.


I respond that I was low-key worried about Saber, as they seemed to have faded, and wanted to keep an eye on them, but didn't want to burn them just because of that and their questionable twilight posting. I felt my attention was better turned to Moon Cancer, though.

(For what it's worth, I had Saber pegged as Titus fairly early. This was part of my dislike of mastina's arguments against Saber, because she was claiming to have guessed their identity and was making arguments against them I felt were disingenuous. My thinking had been that it was someone who was fearful of Titus's scumhunting and wanted to keep her out of a leadership position. It only became clear later on that mastina's assumptions about Saber's identity were terribly, terribly wrong.

notscience asks if I have reactions I wanted him to cause for me to read. I tell him I can't think of anything at the moment.

This is also where I remember I can simply full claim to him, having forgotten it in the excitement of the moment. I also explain that in part I didn't want the master vote because my NP simply isn't useful for town, especially not being charged early.

I give him my reads, at the time I had Caster/Lancer/Assassin/Shielder as my top town, with Moon and Ruler as my main scumreads, Avenger and Saber being lesser suspects. He asks me why I have assassin as a top townread.

He makes a mention to me to not use my NP boosting skill that night.

He questions my read of Ruler, asking whether she'd really stick her neck out for Moon like that so early on if they're teammates. I say some scum players are just fastidiously anti-bus, and since there were no actual votes in play during the master phase, it was unclear how much actual pressure was on Moon. I felt her reasons for her defense were so hard to believe as genuine. In hindsight, I was too tunnelvisioned on her simply for disagreeing with my (correct) scumread.

Mentions he's concerned about Avenger since he'd done next to nothing.

I explain my assassin townread by saying I felt his scumread of Lancer during the Master phase was less likely to come from scum, simply because it was so unpopular and served him essentially no benefit. There was an entire wall I wrote on it but that's the basic summary. I also felt the middle of 544 was fairly nuanced.

I make a comment about how I need to stop posting because I'm not getting any work done.

[Servant Alter Ego]

notscience says he doesn't have a read on Moon/Ruler at that point in time or their meta, only guesses.

My response is to say I burn Moon Cancer first no matter what and move on from there. I thought they were a newer player who didn't know what they were doing and got frozen when I called them out on their initial reads. I admit I may be hypertunneled on a player who is simply overwhelmed, but I also emphasize there is no way they should not be burned before endgame with their level of contribution, and if they are town I need to reset my reads massively.

I also ask at that point in time, in light of notscience's scumread on Beast, whether he outs that clear on Shielder at the moment he did. I felt at that point in time that Shielder was obvious burn-bait if they were town due to their low level of contribution. The fact that it was a hard roleclaim seemed to me like an utterly insane and possibly game-losing gambit for scum to make at the time.

I went back to review the first game to look at its role mechanics, that game had a cop role, but not one that would ignore a miller. I found it confusing what the mechanics were supposed to be that would allow him to ignore a miller. notscience speculates some, suggesting "pt parity cop" or "weak modifier".

He suggests to me that moon feels too easy, and to try to start a counterwagon on Avenger and petition Archer and Saber to join.

I give him a rebuttal to the idea of Moon Cancer being too easy. I say that although a lot of people were saying they scumread moon, there wasn't an enormous dogpile of votes, only a slow trickle. I suggest what's going on is like passive resistance, where people are scumreading him but not really pushing him.

There's a certain irony now in looking back on it that two of the ones who *were* pushing him hardest were his teammates.


I tell him it would be awkward for me to pivot on to Avenger at that point in time given how killing Moon Cancer was my pet project for half the game to that point. I was concerned it would look awkward for me. I tell him to have some patience, we were less than 24 hours into the phase and many players hadn't even posted substantial content at that point in time.

He comments about how he's spam refreshing but the post limit makes it awkward, I realize at that moment that it's 4th of July weekend, which might cause some problems. I make a remark about how you have to let the game breathe rather than constantly waiting for new stimulus. I make a remark about collating the reads everyone is giving (I never get around to this), and that he should reread and spam the PT instead of the main thread, since there's no post limit there. I make mention of how I had been taking ISO notes but they were out of date, and realize I should transfer them to the PT instead so we'd both have access to them.

At that point in time he says he thinks he has a guess on Ruler's identity (this was prior to the crackdown), and thinks she is probably town, just really wrong. I had an idea at the time as well that it was mastina, but I didn't have a good way of reading her and told him I'd defer to his judgment.

He makes a mention of how he didn't think foreigner would come out the gate shading the conftown as scum. I spend some time trying to make sense of the cases on Foreigner since he was the counterwagon to Moon Cancer at the time. I didn't feel like I understood Beast's reasons then, either. notscience mentions he continues to be paranoid of Beast.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?p=12450995#p12450995

[Servant Alter Ego]

Anyway, notscience says he feels like Beast would push their buddy during the Master phase. I say that although I'm less certain on him based on his Foreigner case, I'd want to flip Saber before him rather than getting tangled up in pre-flip associatives. He agrees with me.

He asks about the percentages for the alignments of other servants, I didn't get around to answering this.

He says he liked Rider's wall but that his Foreigner read didn't say much, liked his push on Beast. I said the wall looked fine at a glance, hadn't had time to mull it over, but liked his case for showing conviction.

I also remark at this point in time that Shielder looked like obvious town now that they were actually playing, he agrees with me, says it's an easy read.

This is where mastina gets the thread locked for breaking the rules on identity guessing.

notscience gives his reads here. top tier: lancer/alter/archer/shielder upper tier: caster/rider/ruler middle tier: assassin/foreigner lower tier: beast/moon bottom tier: avenger/saber.

He makes a comment here about how he doesn't think Moon Cancer fits here as a teammate with Beast.

Wait. Holy shit. Let me see if I can find the post.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm confused, who fears Titus's scum hunting.

viewtopic.php?p=12450995#p12450995

Gunna repeat this for emphasis. Who fears Titus's scum hunting?

I said what I said. It's not

my

assessment of Titus. (no offense if you're reading this, Titus). But I know there are certain people who

do

think that way.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Archer
Saber
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker
Assassin
Alter Ego

VOTE: Saber

Archer
Ruler
Beast,Caster,Berserker
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Avenger,Assassin
Saber
Foreigner
Alter Ego

VOTE: Servant Berserker

It seems like your entire readslist has flipped, can you explain what changed for each of-
Saber, Ruler, Beast, Caster, me, Assassin, and Foreigner?

A night of sleep and a fresh look at my reads.
Servant Ruler gave great reasons for many people. Ruler is terribly wrong on Ego, and the reasons for the reads on Ego, Rider and Lancer are too weak for me.
With these three, Saber, Foreigner and Alter Ego the rest of my reads indeed flipped. My reason to scumread Berserker was not as good as I thought yesterday. Caster looks more and more like a townie stumbling in the dark. Ruler is conditional on Saber and Foreigner being scum, but I believe that the POE of {Alter Ego, Foreigner, Saber} has three scum. That obviously leaves one scum but I am sure we can find that one eventually.

This was the post. notscience didn't think Moon would omit Beast from his response to being asked about reads if they were teammates. But I feel the opposite way. He got asked about Beast and couldn't actually come up with anything to say about him. Like he didn't know how to justify a non-bus read on a teammate. Cabd must have been laughing at us.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Why would I point out how hard my scum partners were being bussed by my scum partners before anyone else had voiced this concern btw?
I'm genuinely curious why you think I would frame the game that way.

To get ahead of the curve, to look like you were really on top of things? You'd been pushing Foreigner to that point, if the wagon on Moon went through you'd have to explain yourself, you pre-empt it by calling out the bus. I don't know. The question for me isn't "why would you do this as scum?" but "Would a town player think like this?" And the thing, for me anyway, was that you called it a bus but still held on on moving any attention toward Moon Cancer.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Anyway, I have to get back to work now. But I really feel like it's Beast now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't feel as though this is a productive argument, because I'm never going to be even considering Lancer as scum here. To do so would assume 1. A highly specific scum messaging ability 2. Lancer coming up with the idea to fake being a friendly neighbor with it 3. VFP misinterpreting a fake message as mod confirmation. That's too many hoops to jump through.

[Servant Alter Ego]

to me it feels like he's just trying to widen the elimpool

But why do that if no one is actually going to follow him? It doesn't make sense, given the gamestate.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm going to keep summarizing the hood, because I don't know what else to do at this point:

Thread gets locked again because of mastina, we move to off topic discussion about our plans for the weekend (I thought about seeing a fireworks show but sadly did not end up going). When mastina made, I believe her last post against Saber, I decide her reasoning based on actual thread content rather than alt speculation isn't bad. With the force replace he says the slot is a top townread for him, and I say I trust his judgment as far as mastina's meta.

He makes a comment about how he was worried about Archer but a post he made was good (can't check which one here, obviously). I admit I didn't quite see the early townreads on Archer but if Saber were to flip mafia I'd call him town.

At that point I make mention to Berserker that I think Saber is mafia for their claim plus "other reasons" - the other reasons were based on my identity guess of it being Titus, and her posting a ton in other games while ignoring this one. I suggest a pivot to Saber, notscience says if he votes he ruins any hope for VCA but he's on board. I say I'll wait a moment to see how other people respond to the claim in the hopes of getting somewhat organic reactions, then vote Saber. He mentions he's curious how Beast reacts.

notscience mentions how silencing roles are usually scum roles, although Cabd might subvert expectations with his game design, he also didn't feel town was likely to feel such a role is strong. I make a comparsion to roles in the first game that had potentially anti-town sounding abilities, because I was sympathetic to the idea of not judging someone by a claim given my own role. But I felt like the idea the NP was somehow protown in its use was incredibly farfetched. notscience makes a note about how Beast more or less ignored Saber's role claim altogether and didn't comment on it, getting into an argument with Rider instead.

Then notscience makes a post asking if we can have mastina back, in reference to new Ruler (Momrangal) coming into the game with wildly bad takes. I say it's annoying to have a slot that's almost 99% town making such bad takes. notscience actually doubts his read on the slot because he feels the replace in is tanking it. I say I don't want to jump to conclusions, mainly because I didn't think mastina would make arguments so grossly against the spirit of the anonymous game as scum.

At that point I throw my vote down on Saber to see who bites, I remark that I like the wagon composition. I felt like Beast and Avenger reacted poorly to the votes. notscience comments how they wouldn't both react the same way, he makes a comment about how moon's vote on Saver looks like a bus vote.

I ask if it's even worth the time ISOing Saber at this point, as I feel like I'm okay with them being the vote. I then begin transferring/updating the ISOs of players I've done. I do Assassin, Avenger, and Archer. I won't summarize everything but I felt slightly more doubtful on Assassin after rereading him but still townleaned him, disliked Avenger a lot, and felt Archer was town but not a top town read unless Saber flipped scum.

At that point I say I thought about ISOing Caster but didn't have much to add. I felt like scum wouldn't have spent the master phase overtly dumping on a town wagon, but I was starting to become concerned that her input to the game was fading. notscience is more aggressive, says Caster needs to catch up and weigh in or die. I say to see how things go now that the holiday is over. I feel like I might have had my mind hung up on this conversation when I voted her later in the day.

I make a comment about how I feel Saber is avoiding the thread. Activity tell on Titus.

I do a Lancer ISO and conclude they're still my top townread.

I look at the remaining group of Foreigner/Moon Cancer/Rider/Ruler/Saber/Shielder/Beast. I didn't feel Shielder or Moon had enough content to be worthwhile ISOs and my reads were settled on them, didn't want to reread mastina's posts, felt Saber was pointless if the elimination was going to be on them at that point, and was dubious how useful even trying to read Foreigner would be, which left Rider and Beast, an I settled for doing Rider because his ISO was shorter.

At that point, I take note of how Moon was totally willing to vote Saber with me despite me supposedly being his top scumread. I actually felt like Moon might be a better vote simply because it was hard to get a wagon going on him despite him having an absurdly low amount of content.

I also remark that Avenger claiming is odd but felt we might be better off giving him some time to allow him to prove himself. I had thought, based on his claim, that he should have a chance to prove himself. I had mistakenly assumed at the time he claimed that his actions were night actions.

notscience had been away for a few days because of the holiday weekend, but came back. He had started to doubt Saber a bit because of the AtE she was putting out in thread, and felt it was worth giving the claim a night. I suggest we might want to move the wagon back to Moon Cancer, he agrees, and at that moment he alt-slips in the game thread and I have a meltdown in the PT.

[Servant Alter Ego]

And I just want to add on: if you think I kill Berserker with this volume of content in the hood where I pass on opportunities to push town wagons and drive scum ones instead, you're out of your mind. If you think I kill him to fabricate this level of detail and specificity, you're also insane. Realistically the only reason there's been any consideration I could be scum today is because Berserker is dead and none of the hood content can be verified. I literally never kill him as mafia here.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel like it's important to try to show the thinking that was going on behind the scenes and my progression on players, because there were multiple times where I could have pushed him to wagon a town player instead of a scum player, and I didn't do that.

You know what's notable about Cabd's hood with Dunnstral?

He didn't kill him after putting in all that effort.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Though yes, I mostly just think it's Rider. @_@. I am unhappy that you made that case on me.
Also, if we're playing the confidence game, why would I ever kill Archer. He pretty much killed all my partners and was town reading me. Nobody could have argued against it and I had active threats against me with players that were widely or roughly equivalently town read.

Archer was un-eliminatable after his main scumreads were correct, and could easily have been a valuable PR (and as it turns out, his jailkeep might have been a difference-maker, had he lived). He was also an active and vocal leader who proved willing to be dynamic in his evaluation of the game. Gamma-zerker was...not that.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I also ask at that point in time, in light of notscience's scumread on Beast, whether he outs that clear on Shielder at the moment he did. I felt at that point in time that Shielder was obvious burn-bait if they were town due to their low level of contribution. The fact that it was a hard roleclaim seemed to me like an utterly insane and possibly game-losing gambit for scum to make at the time.

Do you still believe this? Or has your stance on this changed?

I mentioned it as a point in my breakdown, I believe. I feel like it'd be a strange move for scum. But at this point it's not an easy decision for me regardless. And I don't think it outweighs my other suspicions. In fact, it raises questions of plausible balance. Given what we now know of Assassin's role and Lancer's role, it's possible town could have had 4 clears on day 2 if Beast's claim is true. Does that make sense as being plausibly balanced? It doesn't to me.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Part of me thinks that Alter weighed the costs and benefits of who to kill today and who he would rather be in elo with and just slap-dashed together a case.
I have enough activity and wim that if Assassin visited me the entire town would know it.

I guess it might just be that it's alter who hard bussed all game and because they're in a fantastic position to win all those coin flips they have little reason to despair. But maybe I'm just jealous that they were the better scum hunter this game.
I still think they're more likely to be town than you.

It feels like you're keeping yourself open to both angles here. First post would seem to suggest you think it's me, but then you go back on it in the second post and say you think it's more likely to be Rider.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel like it's important to try to show the thinking that was going on behind the scenes and my progression on players, because there were multiple times where I could have pushed him to wagon a town player instead of a scum player, and I didn't do that.

You know what's notable about Cabd's hood with Dunnstral? He didn't kill him after putting in all that effort.

He didn't kill Dunnstral because Dunnstral was a potential Mis-Elim, He had Dunnstral doing whatever he wanted Dunnstral to do, and also because every nightkill on that side of the board was already spoken for.

Cabd did kill Ffery/Bork as soon as Bork turned on him in their hood together despite all of his efforts to fake solve.

I guess I just don't understand why you got that mad at Foreigner.

Even when he was making the worst cases on me I still didn't feel any kind of anger at him? I snapped at him a few times but nothing to the level you did when he couldn't come up with a claim despite having days.

The emotions make sense if you are trying to help him but he is too lazy in your opinion to even try.

I looked back at the sequence in full. I said if he's town, he deserved to die for being worthless. He gave me a reply about "do it a few more times and enjoy your loss". That made me think, in that moment, he was the type of player who acts in a willfully obstinate way as town, simply because they don't like to do things when people ask them to. I've encountered that archetype a lot before. And in that moment I thought he was town who had sabotaged us out of stubbornness.

You're reading far too much into posts from someone who was already dead and flipping scum. Everything he said at that point is just wine. Plus, if I were in a PT with him...I'd just bitch him out for not claiming there, rather than here. The theory it'd "spill over" is silly.

[Servant Alter Ego]

And regarding the point about the kill, you'd have to believe Berserker had turned on me but only did so in the hood he shared with me, and not in yours, or

in the open game thread he was allowed to post in.

That's just wildly implausible.

To be frank it's borderline insulting you'd think I'd kill the potato IC I had a hood with over someone like you.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I wish you'd talk to me more.

[Servant Alter Ego]

what would you like me to talk to you about? ^,^

I guess I am just overly paranoid by nature.

Well, I asked you about the "pocketed me again" comment you made, because I didn't understand what you meant.

But aside from the Foreigner twilight posts, walk me through why you think it's me? I know you thought I was being sideliney earlier because my activity dropped, do you still have an issue now that I've gotten through rereading?

[Servant Alter Ego]

1. No, it isn't. They placed no suspicion on you until the day phase and this clearly came out of left field for you.

I'm not referring to her suspicion of me. I'm referring to the fact that she's clearly a sharper and more invested player than whoever was occupying the Berserker slot at the time. This is a completely underhanded interpretation of what I was saying.

2. Also off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 games I've been in where a scum player avoided conflict in their scum PT when they had a disagreement with their partners or didn't like their play (or were frustrated with their activity levels) and instead passive aggressively insulted their play in thread and bussed. It's really common, you should know that, you seem fairly experienced at mafia. /:

I'm hardly aware of such.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I've certainly cussed out teammates in the PT plenty of times before, though. In my experience people tend to keep things cleaner on the surface in the main thread even if there's a disagreement outside. But that's my experience vs. yours

[Servant Alter Ego]

@Alter Ego.

It doesn't really matter what I believe about your alignment.

Most people in this game do not believe you can be mafia and I'm not going to hard-push for your elimination unless it's F4.

So let's just try to win today and hopefully I won't get into a manic fit tomorrow? If you nail the last scum we never have to have this conversation tomorrow.

Honestly it just feels to me like you

know

that there is going to be a Day 5 to play instead of being optimistic that we can win today :<

I've been trying to win today. I don't know how you don't get that from my posting. I've been pouring literally everything I have into the game to try to win it today. I really think it's Beast. In part because he feels like he's playing for tomorrow rather than today, but also because of everything else I've been saying. But it seems like that option just got taken off the table.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not going to vote for Rider. I'm not going to make the same mistake I made yesterday where I think someone is town but don't defend them strongly enough and they get eliminated anyway. I'd rather we just end the day with no elimination instead.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't see how refusing to vote someone I think is town is anti-town. I refuse to blow another elimination like this. It's just Beast and his posting now makes it obvious he needs to get this through to win. Assassin fucked up.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Okay scum.

[Servant Alter Ego]

What are you possibly going to talk about that's provable in any way? It's not like there's anything to discuss now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Then how is any of that going to be provable? There's no way you actually believe this.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Actually, I'll solve this for us:

If Beast is in the PT, Assassin sends his fruit to Lancer. If he's not, he sends it Caster.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I can't believe no one thought of that before now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

No, look: I just figured out a way for us to have VERIFIABLE PROOF of whether you're in there or not, no magic handwavey "we'll figure it out" bullshit. You should be fine with this, right?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I have a 1-shot announcing fruit vender ability that I haven't used only because doing so would make it obvious which servant I was if anyone did a little lore digging, and I couldn't figure out a good use for this, but I'll use it tonight for kicks I guess.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel so fucking stupid having put in all that work on rereading when it didn't even matter.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Cool, now that it's supposedly auto-win, can I die now?

VOTE: Rider

[Servant Alter Ego]

Uh, wouldn’t it make more sense to do the opposite? Where they don’t send a fruit out if I am in the pt, and they do if I’m not? Can redirectir redirect to themselves?

Do they have to target the player that sends the fruit or do they have to guess who the player is they redirected to?

I didn't want it to be fruit/no fruit binary in the event of a roleblock. My thoughts went to that instead of a redirect. If we flipped it and went with fruit if you're there, no fruit if you're not, that might be better?

I can curse someone tonight to verify that was my skill use? So we'll know I didn't interfere with any result.

[Servant Alter Ego]

That opens up a false guilty though.

I just put a curse on caster/lancer, like I said. It's a confirmable night action, they get told I used it on them.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'll flip a coin and target one of Lancer/Caster.

[Servant Alter Ego]

My NP is 5 stars, so I can't use it yet anyway. But if scum can multitask it's moot anyway.

[Servant Alter Ego]

This feels weird

[Servant Alter Ego]

This feels weird

what feels weird?

I don't understand what's going on right now unless Rider is just trolling us. I just made the game full auto and Rider and Beast are both responding enthusiastically, not like someone who is about to lose.

[Servant Alter Ego]

What?

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't understand. Please don't vote me right away.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I have no idea what's going on but I'm not scum. Someone got wrongly cleared somehow.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Sigh. I wish I had some idea of how this happened.

[Servant Alter Ego]

At least now I know why I couldn't find the right answer yeserday. Was stuck in a false paradigm.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I have no clue what to think right now

[Servant Alter Ego]

I have no idea why Beast was killed

Nothing makes sense

[Servant Alter Ego]

Why wouldn't Beast dying not make sense? I was reasonably sure either him or me would die. He was about to be cleared.

Because from my POV, I would expect you to keep him alive as scum, I have no idea why Caster would do it either. And in a world where VFP somehow screwed the game up and falsely cleared Lancer...well, I don't know who they kill. They might do it but I'm not really going to entertain that tinfoil.

Like...I have no good explanation for anything in this game or who is scum. I just know it's not me.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Caster would have to have investigation immunity for one of her skills, but two of her skills are confirmed.

[Servant Alter Ego]

@Caster:

does your roleblock work on the factional kill? Please confirm with the mod.

[Servant Alter Ego]

File to "questions that should have been asked on day 3"

[Servant Alter Ego]

Did the one she used on you night 3 do something?

I know for a fact one of her skills is the neighborize because Berserker confirmed it to me

[Servant Alter Ego]

Did the one she used on you night 3 do something?

Not to my knowledge.

I see. I assumed it had.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Just asked if a ninja would bypass Beast's investigation, got a no. It seems like it'd be pretty raw to have...one true investigative and have it unable to catch scum most of the time.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If I were scum I would've conceded yesterday.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't think you're the type of player who concedes games.

People who try that hard usually don't.

It's incredibly difficult for you to convince me that Assassin is some kind of Strongman.

I'd give up when I was in autoloss. I wish I had a good explanation, but I don't. Either something interfered with your roleblock, or you have investigation immunity. Both of these would be pure speculation on my part. I don't have an actual good

reason

why either would be true. I assumed they wouldn't be. Were I in someone else's shoes I'd think the same thing. I'm at a total loss as to what to do.

[Servant Alter Ego]

because I know I've been Terrorized by somebody, so I don't think it would even fit on Assassin's skill list. Scum can't have a total of 5 abilities right?

I claimed I was going to use that yesterday to confirm it was my ability, I flipped a coin to decide between you and lancer.

[Servant Alter Ego]

a one-shot neighborize that allows the target to additionally neighborize another player into our neighborhood on the day phase. Berserker forgot to do this despite me telling him multiple times to neighborize Archer :<

He did mention this to me, and explicitly asked if my star-boosting ability worked across multiple hoods (it does not)

[Servant Alter Ego]

The roleblock is interesting, given Ruler flipped with a roleblock already and Archer flipped with a jailkeep. (as well as my own, but...it doesn't even stop factional actions or NPs. I feel like I got ripped off). That seems like a lot, but I was surprised at the amount of apparent investigations, too.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Come to think of it, we have no idea who Archer jailed. If he'd targeted Caster, then it would have prevented the roleblock on Assassin. But that's highly speculative.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I know he was barely paying attention, but it's still surprising that Gamma would ask me about if I could use my skill in caster's hood and, upon receiving a negative answer, not select anyone else as a target.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I was leaning against eliming Avenger, for a mechanical reason (that I do not wish to reveal the details of)

I think Archer jailkept Avenger N1

Oh.

I wish someone had figured that out on day 3.

[Servant Alter Ego]

With that possibility negated, I think the only plausible explanation I see is that it's Caster. I think scum!Assassin could have easily come into today using me going after Beast to his advantage, and used that to push me very easily, but he didn't do that.

I wish I had a good explanation for the mechanics but I don't.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I had one of the extra stars from Berserker. My NP is 5* though, and as stated, not that useful.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I thought it was Alter yesterday and said Beast/Rider were probably just T/T.

It's easy to look good if you know who the scum team is and you enjoy bussing.

I don't even think aside from Moon Cancer I look all that good with regard to the other scum, I was mostly following other people on those reads. I've hardly been touting my own credentials when it comes to catching the scum this game, I don't feel as though I deserve much credit. You're being weirdly authoritative in that declaration. (Also, this is completely unverifiable, but I actually hate bussing with a passion and refuse to do it except as a last resort)

I don't think I can get to a place where Assassin is some kind of selective ascetic/strongman who just happened to activate his ability on night two when I roleblocked him.

If I'm wrong I'm sorry but it's just one of those flukey results that you don't really expect to show up in games.

See, the thing is, if I were town and this situation were reversed, I would probably think the exact same way, so I can't begrudge the reasoning.

But I also know that if I were scum that had been falsely cleared that's the exact line I'd be taking here.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't know. It's possible you took a guess on the roleblock based on what assassin had hinted in the thread already. An extra clear means you living wouldn't seem as suspect. Or you could have just gotten lucky on guessing our alignments based on our stated claims (it wouldn't be

that

hard to guess)

Really, this is al speculative on my part, nothing about the game makes much sense to me right now.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Well there's 9 possible alignment combinations and I stated yours and Assassin's.

The odds of me guessing them by "chance" is 1/81 in pure probability terms.

There's no motivation for scum!me to clear Assassin with a roleblock, it only removes a player from the mis-elim pool and really gains me nothing since I've already been cleared by Beast.

Furthermore if I fake a roleblock on Assassin and he actually did commit an action that resolved, it would blow my claim up - this makes even less sense to do for me after I have already been check-cleared by Beast.

It's not pure "chance", though, you'd be able to deduce what was possible based on what info we revealed about our roles - I think almost anyone could have guessed my alignment was Chaotic Evil after my claim about my neighborhood abilities. Acting as if it would be purely random is incredibly disingenuous.

And I just realized, you'd have to have claimed SOMETHING to Berserker when you neighborized him - maybe some slight protown utility, something to seem good, and you'd have to be accountable for using it. something like that roleblock.

I can't say for sure, I'm just speculating, the only advantage I have is that I know something is wrong. I can't have made up some claim that makes me sound better, I only have the truth.

[Servant Alter Ego]

This is about how I expected it to go. I'm just surprised it took this long.

The thing is, I don't have a good explanation. If I were scum I'd make some bullshit up, push it as hard as I can. But I really don't have a clue. I dislike how Caster has been talking this phase but that hardly counts as anything solid. I don't want to force a case because it'd feel dishonest. Maybe I'm just deflated because I went all out yesterday trying to solve inside a box that turned out to be wrong. Anything I attempt would just be begging the question. I'm not sure why me not being able to come up with anything is supposed to be a sign of me being scum - as either alignment, the default position is that if I do nothing, I lose. The only reason I've been stuck like this is because

I really have no idea how to show that someone else is scum

. That's just me being honest rather than fabricating a case.

It's just...hard, you know? I'm sitting here dealing with an impossible problem from my POV, I don't want to be the reason town loses after the start we got off to, but I...don't have a good way to explain it, obviously

some

kind of mechanical fuckery happened and is going to be the reason we lose. And it sucks. The thing is, in a hypothetical situation where I was one of you, I would probably completely disregard what's being said by someone who's POE'd by mechanics. So I can't figure out some imaginary concept of what I "should" be doing, because in reality I know it's never going to be enough. I'm at my wits' end here. I hate this game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm sorry, feeling sick tonight, will try to post tomorrow

[Servant Alter Ego]

I am ok with voting Assassin instead of Alter just so I can lose to really good play rather than mech bullshit if that's what you want to do

If you're really town, you shouldn't be voting based on who you think "played well", you should be voting based on who you think is scum. Don't hide behind lancer.

[Servant Alter Ego]

unvote

[Servant Alter Ego]

please

[Servant Alter Ego]

It's not me

[Servant Alter Ego]

Seriusly if you're there please unvote and just talk to me for a minute

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't know. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do here. But I feel like I haven't been given a chance. You haven't really communicated with me at all. I don't want to lose this game for the town so I'm asking you what I should be saying.

[Servant Alter Ego]

Like, seriously, you do nothing all day, you say you don't think I'm scum, and then you just follow the first person to vote me, how the fuck is that fair

[Servant Alter Ego]

I would have liked if you had asked me LITERALLY ANYTHING

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm expecting Caster to hammer for the scum win when she logs on.

[Servant Alter Ego]

im not scum

oh

[Servant Alter Ego]

I feel dumb

[Servant Alter Ego]

The charm blocks the next negative status debuff I'm targeted with. It hasn't been activated this game.

[Servant Alter Ego]

VOTE: Assassin

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm so bad at these late games.

I need to get something to eat because I'm starving but then I'll be back to post

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'll ask, hopefully I get an answer

[Servant Alter Ego]

what is wrong with you

im like literally the only person who even halfway believes you and you keep throwing shit at me its downright ridiculous at this point

I almost feel like you're negging me at this point to try to confuse me into believing you : (

The answer is just that I am bad at this game.

But I felt like on the last page you were okay with a vote on anyone and if lancer was hesitating on me you were trying to see if they'd vote assassin instead

Obviously I was being dumb.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I think you just have to judge us on dayplay at this point. I'm a little taken aback here because I didn't think assassin would play things this way as scum. Not sure how to process this information.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I can try to scrape together a case but it'd be pretty bullshit and we're pressed for time already

[Servant Alter Ego]

I guess you can say that assassin was content to let us hang back and claw each other's eyes out on days 3 and 4 while not actually proactively solving but that's really only with the benefit of hindsight

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm not sure why the neighborhood invite has an accept/decline to begin with. I took it at face value at the time but it doesn't really make sense for a protown ability to have that option at all. I'm guessing it does something other than what he told us it does

[Servant Alter Ego]

I am loathe to reconsider my town reads on both Caster and Ruler.

I read for Saber's posts to see the interactions between them and Moon Caster and I find it largely a wash. Posts 235 and 472 gave me a sense of TMI. Can one buddy from just a naked reads list without direct interaction? That would also not be my first conclusion say, were my name up there. I'd be thinking "hey maybe this person has some cool and interesting things to say". The follow-up reads list has but one scum read, and it is Moon. It does not say why Moon is scummy in any detail.

The vote of Moon Caster, however, is well placed: 3rd on a budding wagon. The first half of the reason behind it is plausible enough and shared by others (personally not me), unsure about the "throw mud and see what sticks part". Maybe? 238 I suppose qualifies.

I'm still likely to vote Saber. However, I'm once again having trouble seeing anyone else coming close to being particularly scummy. A problem for another day perhaps.

This is kind of, ahh...the reasoning is very 'just-so', like it's too exact and tidy a conclusion, reached at the exact moment momentum against saber becomes unassailable

I feel like even writing this I'm reaching but I have to say something

[Servant Alter Ego]

I didn't want to vote avenger, I didn't want to vote ider until I was convinced we were in autowin. I've been trying to actually find town the past few days rather than just eliminate whoever

[Servant Alter Ego]

I got confirmation over the night that the charm I was given would not actually stop a roleblock. The best guess I was able to come up with was that either assassin had a different charm he gave to himself that DID stop a roleblock, or that having the charm out on me gives him benefits while it's active. I realize this all sounds like half-baked conspiracy theories but that's all I have to offer at this point, barring unfortunate miscommunication on a night action target. I went back and checked Archer's role PM and ISO and while I think he was crumbing a jailkeep on Avenger, I can't say for sure.

As for actual arguments based on play...I'll try to make this brief. I don't see a point in overwhelming with words at this stage in the game.

He seemed to get the wind taken out of his sails by Berserker surpassing him and Saber in popularity and I think a little crack shows through of him being unhappy with town winning the vote. The first paragraph here subtly digs at Saber's "competence" while still trying to prop them up as town. Possible there was some disagreement behind the scenes with regard to both of them gunning for the master upgrade. I put too much stock into the early competing claims when that likely was an unplanned complication.

Every time he moves onto a scum wagon, he feels the need to over-justify it. Even though he didn't vote Foreigner, his concession that Foreigner is

possibly

scum is over-justified By contrast, his reasoning for his incorrect votes is much weaker, much more shallow. Most of the time, he resorts to hanging back and fence-sitting.


Assassin use of his NP doesn't really make sense from a town POV. What I got stuck on yesterday was not understanding why he'd play this way as scum. But the thing is, why did he out it at all on day 4 as town? It would have made more sense to stay hidden and 'clear' someone using the power surreptitiously. But that's the thing. It was all for show. If he was actually concerned about being nightkilled, why mention it at all? The way he spoke was done with the idea of

looking

town, not actually coming from a town thought process. Same as how from day 3 on he kept saying "I have a hard time seeing anyone as scum" but then coming back and voting town with no alsysis in between. How he went from "until I could make a plausible non-mechanical case for Alter being scum I would not feel comfortable voting there" to voting me with no actual discussion, simply that I had not sufficiently scumcased anyone else - as if I could, in my circumstances. That about summarizes assassin's play - superficially nice looking on the surface but mostly just riding along on what others say, no original solving that he puts forward himself.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I know I shouldn't even admit this, but I edited that twice overnight and still don't feel great about it. If what I wrote there isn't enough to convince you over the mechanical evidence, just vote me now and get it over with. I don't want this dragged out another week, there's nothing more I can do. I wouldn't blame you for being wrong here.

VOTE: Assassin

[Servant Alter Ego]

Not really surprised Caster died here.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I'm here, not going to get dragged into a back and forth argument with scum, will answer Lancer directly if they have any questions.

[Servant Alter Ego]

this is @ both of you I guess: why do you think caster died last night instead of me?

She had started to suspect Assassin more, you were voting me. Most people have a very hard time re-calibrating their suspicions even after a nightkill and will talk themselves into their initial read.

[Servant Alter Ego]

90% of the time going with your head is the right call.

[Servant Alter Ego]

It's not here, but, I'm just saying. Ignoring your head feels a lot worse when it's wrong.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I’m not sure I’ll ever get past the mech clear to voting assassin.

There’s also some stuff in the scum team’s ISO that makes me think they were trying to distance really hard from alter, in particular moon cancer scumreading and hardpushing alter and naming a POE of saber, foreigner, and alter. and I think the scum team would have played differently during the master selection phase if both assassin and saber were scum and competing for master

idk that’s where I’m at atm

Right, and you're alive because you made it obvious that's the way you were thinking yesterday.

The idea that moon was trying to distance from me is just dumb, though. He put me as his top scumread

before

he started bussing his teammates, when he was voting saber for master. The switch in reads was an obvious panic move when it became clear that Saber wasn't going to win the vote. To think that you'd have to believe he was trying to bus the objectively best positioned member of his team over anyone else. That's completely illogical.

[Servant Alter Ego]

I don't mind if we lose off mechanical fuckery and I said if I can't get past that then to just vote me, but being hit with such illogical nonsense at this stage of the game really does annoy me.