Not Quite Normal Multiball (Game Over)

[mastina]

Hi guys!
I am replacing mastina!
She apparently never got to post before the mod subbed me in for her, so I don't have anything to really iso her off of.

I

would

say I'd catch up as this replacement and read the prior game pages, since, hey, it's D1, so obviously it's not too late into the game (in fact it would seem less than 48 hours have passed!), but, uhhhh...

...There's 77 pages so

fuck

that.

I'm not going to be reading all those pages.

Just give me important information/summaries containing key claims and key game events and I'll read from this post onwards with occasional backing up from isos.

Glad Cephrir let me replace in so early! It's almost like I'm an original player!

[mastina]

One the key moments is probably the T3 replace out. Reading that iso will be easy. Loads of stumbling about on that wagon. Dann did an ok replace-in. A certain player death-tunneling it (which is probably alignment indicative in some way).

Oh I should probably mention that when I was offline and this game's day was in its

actual

infancy (relatively speaking--I did this while there were ~20 pages, which I think was late last night?), I iso'd Cephrir, saw the T3 wagon at its peak, and skimmed the circumstances behind it, skimreading pages circa 4-10, thereabouts. Just skims, though, nothing major, just the absolute barebone basics there and I don't remember it that clearly anyway, so I'd prefer you to assume I haven't read there and continue to summarize information from there as if I hadn't read anything in the area as it'll help me more if you assume I've not read the area even though I technically did skimread some small sections of it.

My thoughts RE: T3:
I can see it either way. Scum fucking up and being dogpiled by everyone scum and town alike for it, or town fucking up and being dogpiled by everyone scum and town alike for it (bit of an oversimplification but you should get the idea), so what do I think we should do with Dannflor?

...Not eliminate him and leave him to the scum. Listen to what he has to say, and let him do Dannflor things. This game explicitly not being singleball, this game explicitly being multiball, I don't believe neither scumteam will nightkill him. Regardless of his alignment, he shouldn't survive to see D4 because even if he DOES belong to a scumteam, he SHOULD be nightkilled by the

other

scumteam just due to the threat he poses to them. And if he's town, that's doubly so, because that means both scumteams will see him as a threat. Because he's Dannflor.

So I don't want to eliminate him.

In general, when it comes to multiball games, I prefer to eliminate players that I don't think either scumteam will want to kill, but who have a decent chance of being scum. While I can see Dannflor's slot as either alignment and he very well

could

be scum, he utterly fails the first criteria, so I don't want to eliminate him immediately.

We can reevaluate on a later day I guess, but on D1 I'd prefer an elimination on a slot that's not a likely kill who is a likely scum.

Who that is? Well.

I literally just got into this game that has 77 pages, fucked if I know.

Give me time to figure that out.

[mastina]

"Millers" are:

Wheme : Miller
Ythan: Hirsute / Mafia miller
Vaxkiller : has a gun

I feel like voting none of these! I believe their claims which, while not clearing them as town, I believe to be true enough to not want to eliminate them D1.

[mastina]

(Also, not a big fan of your "scum will kill it take". Thats never going to happen and even without reading I think you know that)

No, I unironically believe it. Scum want to kill the players that are threats to them. Players who are insanely strong as town are inherently threats to them even if the player is scum, because of multiball allowing that player to genuinely scumhunt. Scum do need to kill off certain PRs and spend nightkills there, but they also need to eliminate the players that they,
1: Don't think they'll be caught killing,
2: Don't think will be immune to nightkills,
and,
3: Represent a tangible threat to the scum.

Dannflor, thanks to inheriting a widely scumread slot but being Dannflor, fulfills the criteria for all three. Nobody would be caught dead watching Dannflor, nobody would be caught dead protecting Dannflor, so he's a safe kill to make, and he's a player that, due to being Dannflor, is going to be competent at scumhunting.

I legitimately believe that the town's best use of elimination is for players that the scumteams won't be inclined to eliminate, but who have a high chance of being scum. Because if we eliminate a player that one of the scumteams was going to kill anyway, then we're wasting the elimination, now, aren't we?

Plus, it's not like I'm binning Dannflor permanently in the pile. If neither scumteam wants to kill him in the first few nights, we can reevaluate, reassess, and rethink on a later day given Dannflor's contributions on if we think he's town or scum. But I genuinely believe that on D1, he is a poor elimination here.

Now, read Kakeguri addicts' iso. See the death tunnel by the vocal head. The unwillingness to read anything Dann has produced. Remind you of a certain player/playstyle and a link to an alignment?

Oh yeah I took a look at that iso--while they could be town, I lean towards scum, so sure;

Vote: Kakeguri Addicts

[mastina]

I was unaware that Dann comes with this level of notoriety.

Dude's a former paragon nominee. I don't think he actually won, but you don't get nominations for Paragon of Mafia Hunters unless you're genuinely that competent at the game.

I realize that was years ago, and I've not seen Dannflor since and if he's been less active a player, his skills could have atrophied, especially in a multiball game (heck, it's been so long since I've played a multiball game that I've forgotten how to do the best scumhunting in a multiball game), but I would still expect even a rusty player in an antiquated game mode (antiquated due to nobody running multiball games outside of X-Idea-esque role madness ones) to have the competency necessary to become a threat to at least one scumteam, if not both.

Yes, the scum could hope the other scumteam kills him and thus end up not killing him; depending on who the scum are, it's possible the scum may deliberately leave him alive not wanting to risk a crosskill; scum could worry that in spite of the suspicion on him that their kill could fail or be spotted on him; scum could opt to leave him alive for the wifom and hope the town does their job for them; there's reasons that Dannflor would not be killed by either scumteam.

But given his competency as a player, I'm inclined to at least wait a few phases and reassess later, circa D4. Look at his content by then, see if there is a faction he can't belong to, see if there's a faction he's more likely to belong to, see if he's town, etc., based on the gathered evidence we have available. Specifically because I trust in his competence to force the scum's hands before then.

dont tell me mastina already ran off

I mean I did, but I'm back now.

[mastina]

(snip)

Oh is this why people are voting Spiffeh?

Ehh I can see it, I do overall lean more scum there than not, but I'd prefer we eliminate elsewhere for the same reason I'm not pressing Dannflor.

Btw for the record: Vecna, Lukewarm, and WhemeStar are all townreads for me right now;
Ythan and Vaxkiller are off the table for me today because I lean more towards not-scum on them overall;
This is just through page 79 though so still reading more.

[mastina]

why is. the thread so dead.

You've nobody to blame but yourselves.

When a game produces nearly 80 pages in less than 48 hours, naturally, activity is going to die out after that because if activity didn't die out, the game would become unmanageably big.

Mastina can't maintain very town things under long term posting so just put your feet up and relax as she sorts herself in the next few irl days.

I mean, it's multiball--the normal lack-of-effort from scumastina doesn't apply as being scum in multiball is traditionally where scumastina has been her strongest because she became quite competent at navigating the nuances of that game mode. It's been years since I played multiball so regardless of my alignment I'd be rusty and regardless of my alignment my skills at multiball have atrophied, but I'd expect to still be pretty damn competent as scum and pretty damn invested as scum.

That being said, I'm definitely getting nightkilled this game, 100%, so you don't need to worry about me. I guarantee that I'm dead before endgame, via nightkill, probably earlier rather than later in spite of my lack of having read the first 76 pages.

Also, add morph to the Vecna/Lukewarm/WhemeStar tier of townreads for me.

[mastina]

(long post snipped)

Yknow I actually think that unwnd is town here so adding them to the Vecna/Lukewarm/WhemeStar/morph tier of townreads.

[mastina]

And Mastina too, actually, given she's been a relative non-factor this game comparatively?

To be fair, I have a reputation on the site. Two reputations in fact, albeit saying the exact opposite things. If Manatee has heard of the one reputation (my theorywork, my better moments) without hearing of the other reputation (the other side of the coin; what people meme on me for, my worse moments), I'd be an intimidating player.

It is multiball but how certain are we cross scum would spend a kill here. I'll ponder it.

I mean they've got reasons to not do so, I'll admit, but they've also got reasons to consider it, so giving them a few nights and if necessary, reassessing down the road seems the best option.

[mastina]

@Mastina and @Vecna

I have other research projects going right now, so I'm just going to ask you directly: Have you played together since the Maplewood game, and if so, how much?

I honestly don't remember how much. I've seen Vecna here and there, we tend to play a game or two together each year on average, sometimes more but sometimes less.

Doing a search, MBOS 10, Anime Seiyuu, meme-Covid-19, Double Day, A Story Revisited, all of those show up before Maplewood.

Could be more though.

You just faction and partner-slipped.

Definitely possible.

[mastina]

Btw;
VOTE: ManateeNot-a-Dude

I'm not sure morph is right on a faction/partner-slip though it's definitely possible...

...But while I'm not sure about a faction/partner-slip, I think Manatee is scum here anyway off of the content she's shown.

[mastina]

Spoiler:

Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot Strongman

Mod: does the werewolf factional nightkill count as being 'shot'?
As in, if the werewolves used their factional nightkill on a player who was bulletproof, would the bulletproof player be immune to the kill?

Is an important point of clarity because of the whole mafia-werewolf separation and what it'd mean for a 1x BP to be killed by the wolves overnight. (If werewolves' factional kill counts for the bulletproof, that means that was a strongman. If werewolves' factional kill doesn't count for the bulletproof, then that has entirely different implications.)

[mastina]

Ydra wasn't playing near her best so I don't feel any 'gotcha' feelings towards it.

Should still be worth reading who had what read on Ydrasse and who Ydrassed had what reads on--given scum killed scum, there's usually a reason for that kill.

[mastina]

Werewolves killing Mafia feels like a misplay kinda. And shooting Ydra? Maybe they thought she was town.

Which is good for scumhunting.

Also,
VOTE: CheekyTeeky.

[mastina]

We disagree, we don't think their iso is going to be very useful due to their playstyle which mainly focuses on keeping themself alive.

Well, I don't mean just Ydrasse's iso--I also mean looking at the stances of others to see who was townreading Ydrasse.

Assuming the werewolves weren't trying to crosskill, that means that all of the scum were among those who had Ydrasse null or north of null--Ydrasse's teammates weren't going to list Ydrasse south of null, and if the werewolves didn't deliberately crosskill, they also would have Ydrasse north of null overall.

[mastina]

This is a silly question with an obvious answer.

Bulletproof doesn't say it protects you from being shot, it says it protects you from being killed.

Weren't you a normal game reviewer at one point? Are we supposed to buy that you don't know how bulletproof works?

Normal games also do not differentiate between Mafia as a faction and Werewolf as a faction--masons are absolutely conftown and cannot contain scum, there's no such thing as Monks, cops investigate for town/scum so there's no such thing as a cop that gets guilties on mafia but not on werewolf or a Seer who gets guilties on werewolves yet not mafia.

And yet this game explicitly features those mechanics.

So given that this game features mechanics that actually differentiate mafia from werewolves, and given that mafia use guns and werewolves traditionally use claws/fangs, it actually IS important to ask the mod the distinction between Bulletproof = immune to only guns and Bulletproof = immune to kills during the night.

This game is, explicitly, Not Quite Normal--a bulletproof in a Normal would indeed be immune to all forms of kills. A bulletproof in

this

game cannot just be

assumed

to be immune to all form of kills and thus, we need to ask the mod because it is of vital importance that we know.

[mastina]

Werewolves killing Mafia feels like a misplay kinda. And shooting Ydra? Maybe they thought she was town.

Werewolves know who the town are. They shared a masonry with them.

Ah yes, werewolves sharing a masonry with two town players magically means they know who all the slots in the games' alignments are.

No, the werewolves would not magically know all the town--they'd know who the masons were, but nobody else. They're just as vulnerable to having wrong reads as anyone else.

[mastina]

Spoiler:

Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot Strongman

Mod: does the werewolf factional nightkill count as being 'shot'?
As in, if the werewolves used their factional nightkill on a player who was bulletproof, would the bulletproof player be immune to the kill?

Is an important point of clarity because of the whole mafia-werewolf separation and what it'd mean for a 1x BP to be killed by the wolves overnight. (If werewolves' factional kill counts for the bulletproof, that means that was a strongman. If werewolves' factional kill doesn't count for the bulletproof, then that has entirely different implications.)

please ask questions via PM

And this is why you ask, folks.

The mod's answer to this question was that bulletproof does

not

apply to the werewolves' factionall kill.

Meaning werewolves do not need a strongman to have killed Ydrasse last night.

Don't believe me? Ask the exact question I did to Cephrir via PM and he will give you the same answer he gave me. (This is why requiring questions to be asked via PM is a fucking stupid rule btw.)

[mastina]

If Werewolves wanted to shoot town, and didn't want to double up on Morph, they had a target.

And why would the werewolves want to kill the third mason? The mod explicitly said that the game could have two werewolves in a masonry, so having one werewolf in the masonry flip does not clear the other two of being werewolves.

The mod's answer to this question was that bulletproof does not apply to the werewolves' factionall kill.

So why was a mafia member bulletproof, then?

A good question that I have my theory about!

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

[mastina]

VOTE: Petapan

Every time Ircher plays in a hydra he rolls scum. Someone break it to him.

manatee's last reads list is interesting
for potential werewolf partners I immediately go to her two secondary town read tiers which include: anya, unwnd, taco, morph, kazyan, celestial, petapan, addicts

For the record, given the cross-reference here my first of first thoughts would be petapan high chance of being a werewolf, but will continue to need to dig.

[mastina]

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

Case us

You've been a gut scumread since D1 + your attitude towards me D2 + your trying to prevent me from digging into the logic that I am approaching for no good reason.

Don't really need more than that.

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

you won’t be sharing information
…
While scum is alive
I see

I don't see the need to share it publicly yet. Especially not with the number of scum alive that are alive. When there's less scum alive, sure.

[mastina]

pooky is town

Pretty damn sure of that, yes.

Does anyone know how many mafia members are on each team on average in these game’s?

For some reason I thought it was public info somewhere that it was 3 on each faction (with the malefactor being a 4th for both acting as a universal-traitor), but I apparently imagined that as I don't see that info anywhere.

I actually think Mastina is a wolf for shamelessly copying my Kakegari read and being so fascinated by the mafia NK reasoning

I mean I've good reason to be werewolf hunting. Mafia hunting has a bonus to it, but werewolf hunting is something I've more incentive to do.

Also, my read wasn't copied from yours given I've not read the thread at all pretty much; I came to it mostly on my own after being asked to iso Kakeguri, which made me instantly go "oh yeah they're probably scum here". I didn't really have anything to substantiate that conclusion; it was pure gut until today. But it was still there as one of the few reads I got on D1.

I think that Kakeguri has a fairly good chance of being scum here. If I had to guess, I would say werewolf is more likely than mafia, especially given their early townbinning of morph the cat. There was also their defense of Manatee. They had strong resistances to voting there, and while they did cast a vote on Manatee eventually, it was the L-2 vote after the wagon was inevitable, and Manatee did a self-hammer (that was actually L+1 because the mod missed my vote on Manatee in all his previous votecounts in spite of my vote having been valid), showing that by that point, it was inevitable and the werewolves knew Manatee was dead beyond salvation.

Are they lockscum, no, they could be mafia, they could be town, they could be the malefactor for all I know, but I don't think they're town and overall find them to be most likely to be a werewolf.

Also since we speed-limmed CT, I can actually vote there now, so:
VOTE: Kakeguri Addicts.

Even if this is a vanity vote I want it noted for the future (assuming Ceph notices my vote this time ) just to speak with my vote on the suspicion there.

[mastina]

ftr I don't really think vecna is a wolf

^Ditto this. I've not really done a deep delve, reading morph's case in depth, isoing Vecna, etc., but I actually don't see Vecna as scum. I want to place faith in morph's reads, but unlike morph's Manatee read which I got and vibed with, I just fundamentally can't see where the Vecna-with-Manatee comes from.

I'm an anti-ww PR and im gonna target you tonight pooky

I'm somewhat skeptical of this. It's obviously not impossible especially depending on the role claimed but I am not having high faith in Taco being town, here.

VOTE: unwnd

For the record, my town list right now looks something like:
Celestial PowerHouse
Pookythemagicalbear
Lukewarm
unwnd
Dannflor*
Uncle Shelby

My given-pass-either-due-to-roleclaim-or-thinking-them-less-likely tier of lesser town is:
Vecna
Ythan**
WhemeStar**
Vaxkiller**

I've yet to develop good thoughts on:
Kazyan (I've seen a few posts that loosely look town but nothing that tells me they ARE town especially in multiball, need to look into it more)

VFP/DGB
The Resistance
Anya

I think have higher than random chances of flipping scum:
Taco Hemmingway
petapan

Kakeguri Addicts (strong scumread, I think werewolf specifically)


*subject to reconsideration on D4 (in Dannflor's case due to his predecessor)
**roleclaim-based

With 3 scum dead, the game presumably has either 4 scum left (malefactor + wwx2 + mafiax1) or 6 scum left (malefactor + wwx3 + mafiax2) so I realize I'm at least one scum short in the "higher than random chances of flipping scum" field at minimum, but presumably after the people I've got no locked down read on, I develop a read on, I'll have a sufficient number of scumreads. (Also the passes I'm giving to the pass category are just that, passes, not indefinite, have an expiration.)

[mastina]

i'm reasonably confident vecna isn't a wolf, morph was reading way too much into manatee's reads, don't think he's a good vote

Would this be because you are a wolf and he's not your scumbuddy?

Mary says Taco is about rand for being scum - I think it's a bit more likely than that. We've noted their soft claim.

For the record: my current guess is Kakeguri + petapan as werewolves, Taco as last mafiate, ????? as malefactor, but obviously this is just a wild guess, got a lot of reading + research to do before locking anything down there more substantially.

Word

I realize I am giving Vaxkiller a role-based pass for now but of the people who're in my temporary-pass category, btw, Vaxkiller would be the first to have that pass expire for what it's worth.

I'm giving him a role-based pass for now, but the moment I choose not to, he'd shoot to near the top of my elimination preferences.

[mastina]

So in other words... We're basically blindly sheeping morph here? Like, morph the cat is pretty good, but it seems wrong to just end the day prematurely under the basis that their reads are perfect. That's rarely the case for anyone. Plus by the looks of it, it's unlikely we're going to gleam any useful info from this day phase because of the way it is playing out.

For the record: speeding our way through our first elimination in a day phase with two eliminations sharing one deadline is actually optimal play imo as whenever you have two day eliminations in the same phase sharing the same deadline, you either get the first elimination done quickly and the second slowly or the first slowly and then have less than 72 hours give or take 48 hours for the second elimination.

Since we did get the first elimination, we can spend as much time as we want to on the second. We can use 48 hours or we can use a week; we'll use as much time as we think we need to use.

So I'm not in any rush to end the day, but I'm also not in any rush to artificially extend the day, forcing it to last longer than it needs to.

[mastina]

also strange that mastina says this about spiffeh but the effort she puts into explaining it like she did for dannflor is very reduced

Well,
1: I already made the point once; having made the point, I didn't need to make it a second time,
2: I actually respect Dannflor more as a town player than I do Spiffeh--that's not to say I don't respect Spiffeh; I

do

, it's just that I respect Dannflor

more

than I respect Spiffeh, so while they had similar logic applied, Dannflor was more worthy of it than Spiffeh,
3: Especially off of actual game events. I did at one point briefly iso Dannflor and saw his content as possibly-scum-but-also-looking-good/promising-town/etc. A similar iso of Spiffeh showed him to be the opposite, as being possibly-town-but-also-looking-incredibly-lackluster/rather-scum/etc. So while both got similar passes, Dannflor was more worthy of it thus more time spent on Dannflor,
4: I like Dannflor as a player more than Spiffeh. Spiffeh's playstyle can be abrasive, but Dannflor? Dannflor's playstyle is literally like listening to the smoothest, sexiest-sounding male guy you can think of. He's literally the type of guy whose words speak to you in a way that you could fall asleep to, not out of boredom, but out of the sheer serenity their calmness instills within you.
5: Also, Dannflor was a more topical discussion, Spiffeh a more minor discussion. Dannflor's slot formed a majority of the earlygame content and that was an area of the game I was more familiar with, Spiffeh was a more recent event that I had no familiarity with.

Ythan and Vaxkiller are off the table for me today because I lean more towards not-scum on them overall;

I'd say her Vaxkiller "not-scum" read is pulled from the void.

It was pulled from their roleclaims and thinking those claimed roles to be less likely to be scum, but explicitly not impossible to be scum.

[mastina]

I guess this is that game with tons of hidden private chats eh?

Oh, definitely.

After all, the mod literally explained in the advertising of this game that it could break assumed standards by giving examples from

neighborhoods

, with the implication that it'd apply to masonries, monkhoods, etc., too. I'd be shocked if we had less than 5 private topics, honestly.

Mastina, why do you think Ythan's role excludes him from the werewolf pool?

Setup gut. As in, setup spec, but instead of speculating with my brain where there's logic to back up the speculation, pure gut feeling. A gut read on some setup distribution.

Which is why it's a pass-for-now, not an indefinite pass. I fully realize I'll need to reassess that later.

[mastina]

they thought that

mastina

might be werewolf.

Wait really?

Huh.

Guess I wasn't blatant enough with my signaling to them.

If morph were paying closer attention to my posts on D1 they would never have guessed werewolf on me--mafia, possible, but werewolf? I basically told them on D1 that I wasn't, and I was specifically signaling to them exactly how I wasn't one. I'm legit surprised they missed it and they're gonna feel real stupid in the dead PT once they get the spoilers there as I was incredibly unsubtle as to what anti-werewolf role I am. (And yes, it is one that I can back up at any time, but it is not good for me to out it. Suffice to say, I've got plenty of verification possible on this.)

[mastina]

Mastina can't maintain very town things under long term posting so just put your feet up and relax as she sorts herself in the next few irl days.

I mean, it's multiball--the normal lack-of-effort from scumastina doesn't apply as being scum in multiball is traditionally where scumastina has been her strongest because she became quite competent at navigating the nuances of that game mode. It's been years since I played multiball so regardless of my alignment I'd be rusty and regardless of my alignment my skills at multiball have atrophied, but I'd expect to still be pretty damn competent as scum and pretty damn invested as scum.

That being said,

I'm definitely getting nightkilled this game, 100%, so you don't need to worry about me.

I guarantee that I'm dead before endgame, via nightkill, probably earlier rather than later

in spite of my lack of having read the first 76 pages.

Also, add morph to the Vecna/Lukewarm/WhemeStar tier of townreads for me.

And Mastina too, actually, given she's been a relative non-factor this game comparatively?

To be fair, I have a reputation on the site. Two reputations in fact, albeit saying the exact opposite things. If Manatee has heard of the one reputation (my theorywork, my better moments) without hearing of the other reputation (the other side of the coin; what people meme on me for, my worse moments), I'd be an intimidating player.

You just faction and partner-slipped.

Definitely possible.

^This was a biggie. It might not seem like it if you don't think about the timing, but it IS huge when you think about what was publicly said. I thought for

sure

morph knew that I knew exactly what they were doing.

Btw;
VOTE: ManateeNot-a-Dude

I'm not sure morph is right on a faction/partner-slip though it's definitely possible...

...But while I'm not sure about a faction/partner-slip, I think Manatee is scum here anyway off of the content she's shown.

There's also this.

Genuinely surprised morph didn't realize what I was talking about here.

[mastina]

Anya is my favorite on the list.

I mean Taco's there for me as well but basically the same.

Anya ~= Taco > DGB > Vecna in preference for the list (I am off the table because morph couldn't have been more wrong about me being a werewolf), though I realize I've little sway there.

[mastina]

cop goes to anya or massy. period.

A seer would be wasted on me but a cop to confirm I'm not mafia wouldn't hurt I suppose.

[mastina]

No, i cant act on n1

The reason is because roleblocker is one of my false positives

Theres other false positive roles but i refuse to claim what they are

This sounds like a complex role that is complex in a way that Cephrir explicitly hates in current Normals.

So I'm like 80% sure this is a bullshit claim.

[mastina]

our role pm says that we(all the masons) are confirmed to not be mafia but werewolves maybe exist in our mason chat. there is no mention of malefactor potentially existing. therefore, we are confirmed to be either town or werewolf.

Technically speaking, a lack of malefactor in the role PM does not make it clear in of itself that the malefactor cannot be a mason but I'm sure that's something Cephrir would, upon noticing it, then clarify to say that, indeed, malefactor cannot be a mason.

You know what? I think your slot is actually malefactor.

Not possible since the malefactor basically counts as both a werewolf and a mafiate for the purposes of a masonry in that they cannot be a member of it.

I think actually that BP doesn't actually work against the Wolf factional kill, just based on my own role PM specifying specific roles.

The mod literally already confirmed this, that bulletproof doesn't work against werewolves.

[mastina]

do you think my roleclaim is legit, and how do you think it fits into my alignment, if so

Honestly, no, I don't think the claim is legit, and honestly, I think you're probably mafia regardless of whether the claim is legit or fake, but I'm not voting you because it doesn't matter much; if I am wrong about the claim being bogus and if the claim is real, the wolves need to kill you anyway. But I want it put on the record in case the wolves opt to shoot me instead of you that I think you're mafia bullshitting.

[mastina]

Dbg > Vecna > Anya >Vax > Mastina > Shelby > Ythan
Until town is hit/game is won.
Taco, Pooky, lukewarm, Unwnd, resistance DO NOT TOUCH NEVER TOUCH ALL TOWN

*a-HEM*

The mod's answer to this question was that bulletproof does not apply to the werewolves' factionall kill.

So why was a mafia member bulletproof, then?

A good question that I have my theory about!

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

you won’t be sharing information
…
While scum is alive
I see

I don't see the need to share it publicly yet. Especially not with the number of scum alive that are alive. When there's less scum alive, sure.

I actually think Mastina is a wolf for shamelessly copying my Kakegari read and being so fascinated by the mafia NK reasoning

I mean I've good reason to be werewolf hunting. Mafia hunting has a bonus to it, but werewolf hunting is something I've more incentive to do.

I guess this is that game with tons of hidden private chats eh?

Oh, definitely.

After all, the mod literally explained in the advertising of this game that it could break assumed standards by giving examples from

neighborhoods

, with the implication that it'd apply to masonries, monkhoods, etc., too. I'd be shocked if we had less than 5 private topics, honestly.

Mastina, why do you think Ythan's role excludes him from the werewolf pool?

Setup gut. As in, setup spec, but instead of speculating with my brain where there's logic to back up the speculation, pure gut feeling. A gut read on some setup distribution.

Which is why it's a pass-for-now, not an indefinite pass. I fully realize I'll need to reassess that later.

they thought that

mastina

might be werewolf.

Wait really?

Huh.

Guess I wasn't blatant enough with my signaling to them.

If morph were paying closer attention to my posts on D1 they would never have guessed werewolf on me--mafia, possible, but werewolf? I basically told them on D1 that I wasn't, and I was specifically signaling to them exactly how I wasn't one. I'm legit surprised they missed it and they're gonna feel real stupid in the dead PT once they get the spoilers there as I was incredibly unsubtle as to what anti-werewolf role I am. (And yes, it is one that I can back up at any time, but it is not good for me to out it. Suffice to say, I've got plenty of verification possible on this.)

Mastina can't maintain very town things under long term posting so just put your feet up and relax as she sorts herself in the next few irl days.

I mean, it's multiball--the normal lack-of-effort from scumastina doesn't apply as being scum in multiball is traditionally where scumastina has been her strongest because she became quite competent at navigating the nuances of that game mode. It's been years since I played multiball so regardless of my alignment I'd be rusty and regardless of my alignment my skills at multiball have atrophied, but I'd expect to still be pretty damn competent as scum and pretty damn invested as scum.

That being said,

I'm definitely getting nightkilled this game, 100%, so you don't need to worry about me.

I guarantee that I'm dead before endgame, via nightkill, probably earlier rather than later

in spite of my lack of having read the first 76 pages.

Also, add morph to the Vecna/Lukewarm/WhemeStar tier of townreads for me.

And Mastina too, actually, given she's been a relative non-factor this game comparatively?

To be fair, I have a reputation on the site. Two reputations in fact, albeit saying the exact opposite things. If Manatee has heard of the one reputation (my theorywork, my better moments) without hearing of the other reputation (the other side of the coin; what people meme on me for, my worse moments), I'd be an intimidating player.

You just faction and partner-slipped.

Definitely possible.

^This was a biggie. It might not seem like it if you don't think about the timing, but it IS huge when you think about what was publicly said. I thought for

sure

morph knew that I knew exactly what they were doing.

Btw;
VOTE: ManateeNot-a-Dude

I'm not sure morph is right on a faction/partner-slip though it's definitely possible...

...But while I'm not sure about a faction/partner-slip, I think Manatee is scum here anyway off of the content she's shown.

There's also this.

Genuinely surprised morph didn't realize what I was talking about here.

(I am off the table because morph couldn't have been more wrong about me being a werewolf), though I realize I've little sway there.

cop goes to anya or massy. period.

A seer would be wasted on me but a cop to confirm I'm not mafia wouldn't hurt I suppose.

our role pm says that we(all the masons) are confirmed to not be mafia but werewolves maybe exist in our mason chat. there is no mention of malefactor potentially existing. therefore, we are confirmed to be either town or werewolf.

Technically speaking, a lack of malefactor in the role PM does not make it clear in of itself that the malefactor cannot be a mason but I'm sure that's something Cephrir would, upon noticing it, then clarify to say that, indeed, malefactor cannot be a mason.

You know what? I think your slot is actually malefactor.

Not possible since the malefactor basically counts as both a werewolf and a mafiate for the purposes of a masonry in that they cannot be a member of it.

Read my fucking posts and then think for a minute.

[mastina]

(There was also another post I made but I excluded it from the above because including it would've been TOO obvious what I am saying.)

[mastina]

I think it's a few minutes early for you? But happy birthday!

9 minutes, yes.

[mastina]

h birthday mastina

i gibe you a townread just for birthday

<3

[mastina]

h birthday mastina
i gibe you a townread just for birthday

<3

Tho really what I could use for a birthday present is you quoting my 3744 to Celestial Powerhouse and asking them to read it and then reassess having me in their elimination pile for suspicion of being a werewolf since they apparently weren't reading when I made those posts before.

[mastina]

The Mafia faction has been eliminated.

Oh hey that means there's probably only one scum left and they are a werewolf.

Makes the game much easier since we've got plenty of anti-werewolf roles still alive (myself included).

[mastina]

We should legitimately massclaim and then just mechsolve to the last werewolf

Down for this if it's also backed by at least one ideally two other trusted voices e.g. Pooky, Celestial PowerHouse. (Then again I've softclaimed enough to be pretty damn obvious anyway. )

[mastina]

Does DGB bus

Btw RE: DGB: I'm kinda sad I didn't vote it, because had I done so, I'd have been on every scum elimination we've done during the day, but,
1: I didn't want the day to end too soon and my vote would've placed it dangerously close to elimination, and,
2: I <3 DGB enough that I'd have felt guilty voting it. <3
Ah well. There were enough votes there anyway and I don't need the cred since the mafia have been eliminated. It just is unfortunate for bragging rights.

[mastina]

I have a red check.
I will reveal it later.

There's literally only one scum (that matters anyway) left in the game so this is literally a claim or die situation.

[mastina]

Oh didn't see the new page.
VOTE: Anya

Willing to do this, actually--same logic I just said applies, but to the different user. There's literally only one scum that matters left in the game, and Taco claimed who it is (Anya), so this is a claim or die situation for Anya now.

[mastina]

I guess it doesn't really apply since you've had idk how long to come up with something, whatever. Your claim is still more important than Anya's.

I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt here and force a claim from Anya.

I've suspicion on both slots, but my suspicion on Taco does not necessitate Taco fullclaiming before Anya, especially given said Anya suspicion.

[mastina]

this could be the greatest town ever assembled

True enough; I kinda want to nominate some members for it for the Best Town scummie (the scummie limited to ~5 town players, thus why I could do the nomination myself as I am not one of the best 5 and thus would be excluded from the nomination) but I genuinely don't know which 4-5 to nominate.

[mastina]

Subject: Not Quite Normal -- The Monastery

I apologize for laying it on thick inthread and basically guaranteeing that the werewolves shoot me sooner rather than later.

Suffice to say, I've signaled as clearly as is humanly possible to Celestial Powerhouse "I AM A MONK DAMMIT".

So clearly, that I probably die soon, very soon.

Subject: Not Quite Normal -- The Monastery

I apologize for laying it on thick inthread and basically guaranteeing that the werewolves shoot me sooner rather than later.
Suffice to say, I've signaled as clearly as is humanly possible to Celestial Powerhouse "I AM A MONK DAMMIT".

Apparently

, it wasn't enough for the collective greek gods to notice.

Subject: Not Quite Normal -- The Monastery

I guess Mastina is claiming malefactor? If true, murder Wheme

I really don't think that is what she is softing -- I have a different guess lol

its not and its funny vecna is twisting a pretty clear soft.
-Mister Ocean

I think they got there lol

Subject: Not Quite Normal -- The Lodge

Lol
Guys, my bet is mastina is claiming Seer. Not sure how any of us had missed it

Apparently, they did not, in fact, get it, not even to the very end.

[mastina]

The mod's answer to this question was that bulletproof does not apply to the werewolves' factionall kill.

So why was a mafia member bulletproof, then?

A good question that I have my theory about!

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

One which I won't share with the thread while you're alive since I'm thinking you're scum here.

you won’t be sharing information
…
While scum is alive
I see

I don't see the need to share it publicly yet. Especially not with the number of scum alive that are alive. When there's less scum alive, sure.

I actually think Mastina is a wolf for shamelessly copying my Kakegari read and being so fascinated by the mafia NK reasoning

I mean I've good reason to be werewolf hunting. Mafia hunting has a bonus to it, but werewolf hunting is something I've more incentive to do.

I guess this is that game with tons of hidden private chats eh?

Oh, definitely.

After all, the mod literally explained in the advertising of this game that it could break assumed standards by giving examples from

neighborhoods

, with the implication that it'd apply to masonries, monkhoods, etc., too. I'd be shocked if we had less than 5 private topics, honestly.

Mastina, why do you think Ythan's role excludes him from the werewolf pool?

Setup gut. As in, setup spec, but instead of speculating with my brain where there's logic to back up the speculation, pure gut feeling. A gut read on some setup distribution.

Which is why it's a pass-for-now, not an indefinite pass. I fully realize I'll need to reassess that later.

they thought that

mastina

might be werewolf.

Wait really?

Huh.

Guess I wasn't blatant enough with my signaling to them.

If morph were paying closer attention to my posts on D1 they would never have guessed werewolf on me--mafia, possible, but werewolf? I basically told them on D1 that I wasn't, and I was specifically signaling to them exactly how I wasn't one. I'm legit surprised they missed it and they're gonna feel real stupid in the dead PT once they get the spoilers there as I was incredibly unsubtle as to what anti-werewolf role I am. (And yes, it is one that I can back up at any time, but it is not good for me to out it. Suffice to say, I've got plenty of verification possible on this.)

Mastina can't maintain very town things under long term posting so just put your feet up and relax as she sorts herself in the next few irl days.

I mean, it's multiball--the normal lack-of-effort from scumastina doesn't apply as being scum in multiball is traditionally where scumastina has been her strongest because she became quite competent at navigating the nuances of that game mode. It's been years since I played multiball so regardless of my alignment I'd be rusty and regardless of my alignment my skills at multiball have atrophied, but I'd expect to still be pretty damn competent as scum and pretty damn invested as scum.

That being said,

I'm definitely getting nightkilled this game, 100%, so you don't need to worry about me.

I guarantee that I'm dead before endgame, via nightkill, probably earlier rather than later

in spite of my lack of having read the first 76 pages.

Also, add morph to the Vecna/Lukewarm/WhemeStar tier of townreads for me.

And Mastina too, actually, given she's been a relative non-factor this game comparatively?

To be fair, I have a reputation on the site. Two reputations in fact, albeit saying the exact opposite things. If Manatee has heard of the one reputation (my theorywork, my better moments) without hearing of the other reputation (the other side of the coin; what people meme on me for, my worse moments), I'd be an intimidating player.

You just faction and partner-slipped.

Definitely possible.

^This was a biggie. It might not seem like it if you don't think about the timing, but it IS huge when you think about what was publicly said. I thought for

sure

morph knew that I knew exactly what they were doing.

Btw;
VOTE: ManateeNot-a-Dude

I'm not sure morph is right on a faction/partner-slip though it's definitely possible...

...But while I'm not sure about a faction/partner-slip, I think Manatee is scum here anyway off of the content she's shown.

There's also this.

Genuinely surprised morph didn't realize what I was talking about here.

(I am off the table because morph couldn't have been more wrong about me being a werewolf), though I realize I've little sway there.

cop goes to anya or massy. period.

A seer would be wasted on me but a cop to confirm I'm not mafia wouldn't hurt I suppose.

our role pm says that we(all the masons) are confirmed to not be mafia but werewolves maybe exist in our mason chat. there is no mention of malefactor potentially existing. therefore, we are confirmed to be either town or werewolf.

Technically speaking, a lack of malefactor in the role PM does not make it clear in of itself that the malefactor cannot be a mason but I'm sure that's something Cephrir would, upon noticing it, then clarify to say that, indeed, malefactor cannot be a mason.

You know what? I think your slot is actually malefactor.

Not possible since the malefactor basically counts as both a werewolf and a mafiate for the purposes of a masonry in that they cannot be a member of it.

Read my fucking posts and then think for a minute.

To explain some of this, I was being about as blatant as I could be here because of a few things.

Notably, when I said "definitely possible" to morph's accusation against Manatee perspective-slipping, I was directly signaling to morph that I knew they were masons because I was a monk. Remember at the time, it wasn't public that morph was a mason; it was public that morph and Manatee were in a topic but people thought it was a neighborhood. I was specifically signaling to them that I knew they were masons by myself being a monk.

Also, when I said

a lack of malefactor in the role PM does not make it clear in of itself that the malefactor cannot be a mason but I'm sure that's something Cephrir would, upon noticing it, then clarify to say that, indeed, malefactor cannot be a mason

I was directly referring to the first post of the monkhood PT, as I figured there was likely a mirrored first post in the masonry PT. I was directly telling the masons I was a monk by telling them something only THEY should know, by virtue of having it in our topic.

[mastina]

you and mastina were our big misses this game.

Especially since I specifically went out of my way to signal you.