Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

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howdy

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i know nothing about this particular game other than it's purgatory and i wanted to play

more after classwork

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<3

my first thought looking at the votes

why did NSG/me, redtea, and Esooa not join a wagon on D1? If Farren is scum that's probably important to figure out

i saw that someone mentioned thinking T3 was lazy scum whereas Esooa is lower effort town and the votes from a surface level seeeems to suggest that i suppose

i will of course do real reading later but the wagons stalling yesterday with 3 ppl not committing caught my eye

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as a completely off the cuff guess, how viable is a Farren/T3/redtea team

Farren and T3 already gone over since they seem scumread and also the wagon stall which seems odd that 3 people would just not vote

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or if redtea is town then like Farren/T3/Esooa i guess

This hinges on the ich/flow/dann townbloc u seem to have going being correct though which i dont have a perspective of

But I recall reading that I think Ich was undeniably town by meta (or perhaps that was flow), either way, and also someone said that they were spewed town by gamestate -- so thats probably fine at least

pedit: Oh i got it twisted, i see

I see Ich says Esooa is hanging back which is indictative of scum!them. In that case I'm probably more critical of them because it seems like hanging back just let the Enchant wagon go through without a commitment, so if that was in scum's best interest im immediately concerned by that

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T3 is always so fucking scummy-- HOLY SHIT 140 posts by T3?

I'm used to them more just popping in on occasion and sounding bad, what's going on to make them second highest poster

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Oh Farren being scum doesnt seem as cut and dry as i thought, it mainly seems like Ich is convinced but im not sure everyone is

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T3 is always so fucking scummy-- HOLY SHIT 140 posts by T3?

I'm used to them more just popping in on occasion and sounding bad, what's going on to make them second highest poster

Accidental Spam

..oh

pedit: Oh i got it twisted, i see

It might've been both .__.

I think i might be conflating Ich's reads with reads that reflect the entire gamestate which was a mistake on my part

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Okay no more posting for real until i read, i want my own opinions lol

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as a completely off the cuff guess, how viable is a Farren/T3/redtea team

Farren and T3 already gone over since they seem scumread and also the wagon stall which seems odd that 3 people would just not vote

i wouldve iso'd some more before putting this out there- because it feels only informed by end of d1, and we don't need others taking advantage of an uninformed guess like this.

(had this thought before i finished reading MT's posts, still wanted to say it in case it's relevant In The Future)

Huh? Who is going to take advantage of my slightly educated but mostly uninformed guess?

i like to do some guesswork before i actually read and give some rapid fire takes because i struggle to do that as scum, im a lot more deliberate

I suppose my philosophy is you do everything you can to display your mindset. I'm confused exactly what you mean by people taking advantage, though i may be missing something

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kind of curious on the "hinges on the ich/flow/dann townbloc" part

I was under the impression those were the more consensus town but i think i forget how early this game is so i dont think that really exists yet

my idea was that i was ignoring the players who seemed mainly townread (Ich because heavening obviously and Dann because i dont see anyone suspecting Dann and he was at the top of Ich's list). Flow i think i got twisted

and then from i rest i was figuring Farren probably more likely scum from the weird VC at end of day and maybe scum just wanted to let Enchant go through. im hearing now that there was a whole T3 segment and apparently Enchant did something questionable though

I also had a look at Farren at the end of d1/start of today and im kinda not sure where Ich's confidence of them being scum comes from

So now I'm at Ich's second tier above the last containing scum (like T3 and Esooa) although that seems like an unsurprising take. I suppose the hinging on the townreads part means though i am assuming that Dann/Ich/flow?? are town despite not having looked myself yet

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if I had had the time for it, i might've seen if others could be convinced to vote flow trap.

OMWUS :3

Idk if I even said my SR on you though :lol:

this comes off as towny

Getting into it now!

Okay i immediately like flow trap's early game the least of anyone's i read, page 5 now. It's just especially....... flippant, I guess? So that's kinda funny. Probably doesnt mean anything but like on surface level id probably have voted flow, see NSG did as well

North has said nothing scummy idk why there's a wagon on them

i think that if i were RC i would kill you for this post alone

I don't like this post. It sounds like an appeal to authority.

what

in any case NSG sounds townier than she did in One Night, that might have to do with the nature of the rep-in back in that game. my point overall is probably that i wouldve townleaned her, could be biased

I was also immediately pinged by #26. It is a

very

odd comment to make two pages into the game when there are only two ostensibly RVS votes on northsidegal. This is compounded by the fact that Farren explained his vote clearly only a few votes before.

so, it seems like flow trap is both just posting an observation to post without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon.

flow trap did neither so my observation in #13 was less tongue-in-cheek than might have been first interpreted. I didn't really scum read flow trap off of that, but that was my first reaction of, "huh that's a bit awkward." but then I tried to coax flow trap to join the wagon on NSG and they just refused for seemingly no real reason. I felt like he was using the cutesy-memey responses to avoid having to take responsibility for

actively

avoiding the wagon.

like i tend to think townies, especially in RVS, are on average more likely to swing their vote around and build wagons even for n/a reasons. I don't know flow trap and I'm probably not going to meta them anytime soon but I am still lacking a sense of why their approach to voting nsg was like oil on water

I don't think that overall really says anything about northsidegal's alignment, more just that flow trap seemed to be deliberately avoiding taking a bold stance (like being the third vote on a wagon could be seen as)

Flow's early game does come across as odd to me, im not sure if i could have quantified it like this though.

Posting observations just to post, mm, I guess maybe. I think your point that "I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon." (which u mention a couple times) is a stretch, since early games can vary so wildly.

Hmm, haven't decided what i make of it overall. I think flow came across as weird but i think the additional points that he didnt interact the way "thought a townie would" are overkill

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I have a question for flow, would you say lots and losts of posts that are mostly jokes are typically how you operate in your scum meta?

Interestingly i recall that Ich townreads flow now so i suppose that scum meta read they had didnt hold up but ill ask anyway

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

Because you used bad reasoning but were correct as to why in your townread of me so I think the thought was real.
Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

So you put flow trap in your town block 5 minutes ago, but you can't remember any reason why, and you're townreading NSG for being wrong.

I wish i knew more about how T3 operates to interpret that. I am quite familiar with how you're eliminated in just about every game i've ever seen you appear in but not much else

I can maybe see T3 town now

That felt good to you?

Admittedly i recall townreading T3 in the past for weird thought processes but if i remember right it was because he DID seem to show a deeper thought process, not lack one then admit to it openly

I can maybe see T3 town now

:eek: Are you scum?

Why say this

ah fuck there are 3 scum i thought it was only 2 :sob:

Not the first time i've seen Ich misinterpret/not know part of setup (as town), although this is admittedly kind of different from rpg i guess

im satisfied enough with their explanation that they purposefully go for townslips

iche troje has made like 3 posts that could be conceived as "town slips"

But what did you make of that? Were you pointing it out because it was questionable?

Spoiler: T3

ah fuck there are 3 scum i thought it was only 2 :sob:

hm wait
Is this a townslip? An easily faked townslip, but I don't know if scum would think of doing that.

ah fuck there are 3 scum i thought it was only 2 :sob:

Townslip?

Legit mindmend? :o

Sigh

I think Ich openly saying "yeah, the slip is NAI is towny"?

I hate that im scumreading T3 cause i dont know if im scumreading the portion of their play that is baseline always scummy or not. In particular right now it's feeling like he doesn't have a deeper thought process whereas as town i feel like he has one it's just chaotic as shit

I at least lean towards that he is just saying things so far. But it's so hard to put any kind of conviction behind that statement.

I would definitely lolhammer flow by the way;

I want to say T3 doesnt do this to a partner since he loses no matter what he does if someone votes scum!flow, whereas he wins no matter what if someone puts flow to E-1 (he can hammer, flow was a more scummy consensus player, or he can not hammer and it's whatever since flow is town). If that makes ANY sense

post 26 is really bad but iirc from playing with flow trap before he just makes posts like that lmfao

wow that t3 spam was awful

Kinda scummy too, he's being way more jokey than I remember as town, where he basically wasn't at all

my first impulse is vibing with flow!town + T3!scum presently

Spoiler: Esooa on Dannflor

I was also immediately pinged by #26. It is a

very

odd comment to make two pages into the game when there are only two ostensibly RVS votes on northsidegal. This is compounded by the fact that Farren explained his vote clearly only a few votes before.

so, it seems like flow trap is both just posting an observation to post without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon.

flow trap did neither so my observation in #13 was less tongue-in-cheek than might have been first interpreted. I didn't really scum read flow trap off of that, but that was my first reaction of, "huh that's a bit awkward." but then I tried to coax flow trap to join the wagon on NSG and they just refused for seemingly no real reason. I felt like he was using the cutesy-memey responses to avoid having to take responsibility for

actively

avoiding the wagon.

like i tend to think townies, especially in RVS, are on average more likely to swing their vote around and build wagons even for n/a reasons. I don't know flow trap and I'm probably not going to meta them anytime soon but I am still lacking a sense of why their approach to voting nsg was like oil on water

I don't think that overall really says anything about northsidegal's alignment, more just that flow trap seemed to be deliberately avoiding taking a bold stance (like being the third vote on a wagon could be seen as)

hmm

Kinda eh on the fact you didn't comment on it when it was actually posted iirc but tbh the explanation is pretty good so you can be town

The explanation seemed to overdo reasons that it was scummy, to me

page 10 i lightly like redtea but redtea tricked me early game in Chara's Folly so a little wary

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also interested to hear dann's opinion on esooa's ISO up until this point.

I don't particularly like the town read on me - it feels... idk if im just like particularly sensitive to town reads on me but I always get the impression that people will glance over a wall post of mine and be like "oh I should town read them"

and I feel like that's usually more likely to come from scum. like she didn't really engage with any part of my post or explain *what* about my explanation was good? #232 feels kinda tacked on to fill in for the original read's weakness, although to be fair I have come to a town read for similar reasons as asking the same questions

the rest of the iso ranges from fiiiine to good I think. I feel like I'm missing where exactly the reads are coming from in some instances, which is why I'm asking about the t3 one specifically, the Farren push reads mostly genuine though

although because of that right now I feel like they could make a good flow trap partner so my hero solve right now is gonna be esooa + flowtrap + someone else random I don't know yet. but that's me at 2:30 am talking

why did you ask me specifically and why about this slot specifically? also if i may return the favor, thoughts on redtea?

Hmm this is a fairly good reaction to Esooa's read I think

Sigh I'm not sure

Flow and Farren are locktown for me atp.

My gun to head now is that Esooa/Dannfloor/NSG/redtea contains all 3 scum, listed by strength of read.

Those are good townreads i think for that point

I didnt really bother to quote but Farren's thought process as he works through it after things happen **seems** genuine to me. Not super familiar with how he plays though

I'm wary of the secondary tier T3 scum reads because I feel like if town - he's going to be a slot scum are always going to want to have in their back pocket as a miselim

like the way people are sort of dancing around his slot is feeling... performative? at the very least it makes me think Enchant/T3 are less likely to be aligned - the "meta I can't talk about" is a non-case but also taken seriously enough that it reads genuine. could easily be scum picking a random push on an easy townie but i lean towards that not being an lolrandom bus

Fucking hell, i mean... maybe. Alternatively, scum can let T3 scum his way out of the game, let town push him, profit ??. I'm not sure scum is more likely to just write him down as a scumread

It's not a bad thought process from Dann but im feeling moderately worried about him

btw I think I'm town reading both flow trap and esooa now

all questions can go to my manager

ask them why you're town reading me

actually both of us

honestly I feel like you don't randomly hop on a new wagon, while you still had traction on the old wagon, admit you are still scum reading your old wagon, and then claim your only reason for starting the new wagon is "I felt like it," as scum

it just feels very comfortable, which honestly weren't the vibes I was getting from you at the start of the game! so maybe I'm a clown and you've settled in but that sequence of events is just like

idk I would have expected you to make up a more "legitimate" sounding reason at some point, or shown a read progression, but you just openly admitted you did not

I will elaborate on flow trap in probably a bigger reads list a little later in the day, I'm waiting for nsg to post a little more and specifically curious if her read on flowtrap has changed at all

Ugh ugh ugh I get weird feelings whenever Dann talks to anyone rn i dont know why.

The interactions with T3/Esooa, giving reasoning for why scumreading T3 may be in scum's best interest (which I admit sounded good!), not liking Esooa but pivoting off (as well as Esooa not liking Dann but not enought to do any push about it and instead voting flow/Farren). And those posts I quoted between T3 and Dann were just slightly odd to me

If i map out who seems like scum in my head, well town first -- i could see an Ich/redtea/Farren town with Dann/Esooa/T3 team and.... wait is that the entire game? Who am i forgetting OH flow who i also think is town

Holy shit there are a lot of scum in this kinda game.

VOTE: Esooa I'll sheep.

T3 sheeps Farren who he was wanting to yeet into hell earlier onto Esooa because reasons. It's probably pointless for me to even point out this kinda stuff i guess, but i could see maybe distancing as a reason. That's probably a huge stretch rn though to assign that kind of reasoning but yeah

T3 can you give an actual read on me

Are these three constantly talking to each other or am I losing my mind over nothing because im just focusing on them more

you and dann town

t3, farren, redtea wolf

then there's what.. flowtrap? They seem fine. I don't remember the rest. Oh yeah, enchant. I think their reasoning for voting t3 was towny but it's something I've seen better wolves use, I think it's probably towny though. As for koba, one sec

So both Esooa and Dann have come around on each other

Also NSG voted Esooa to put her to 3 so lets see what T3 does

uhhh i have thoughts on the last page but it'll have to wait until after work

flow trap why does it seem like you don't have an opinion on this nsg / esooa back and forth

Because I'm doing like 4 things at once and I only have the energy for small things :shifty:

Also, I'm having a hard time understanding what they're talking about

hahaha ily flow

I find this setup really entertaining to read because so much of what im reading (presumably anyway) is coming from scum so im paranoid as fuck.

Spoiler: lol

farrens posting didn't change my mind on them at all

VOTE: red tea

why did you drop farren here

I liked the idea of a new wagon

Given that your previous thoughts on me were that I was scummy, I don't see how you get from "Farren is scummy" to "I think I'll vote elsewhere" without changing your mind. Moreover, jumping to someone that was voting for me at the time.

The logical explanation is that you don't actually think I'm scummy.

Actually, I did just think of a potential reason - at least for the changing your vote in general. But I still want to hear yours.

I liked the idea of a new wagon

lol

3 letters from dannflor and all i can think about is how im losing my fucking mind over conf biasing my random feelings solve every time these 3 say something to each other. Now if that isn't something fun idk what is

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i think Esooa on page 17 has a point that she can manoeuvre her vote how she likes even if the SR on the first person hasn't disappeared

but like at the same time I want to lean Farren is town. Even though i dont think I necessarily agree with his reasoning that Esooa must be faking a scumread on him due to the vote swap -- I think Esooa is righteously responding to an incorrect read there. I fully believe Esooa would switch that vote around as either alignment, essentially.

T3 can you give an actual read on me

I don't have a read on you but I think Ich is town -> that implies you are scum.

I'm crossing my fingers that T3 does something crazy to justify not killing esooa after she almost dies, or something, so i can be right. But yea let's see lets see

despite me throwing a pretty large amount of shade your way, you have not commented on it at all to the best of my memory, why is that?

i don't really recall seeing anything from you that seemed to really warrant a response. was there some question i missed? apart from that, all i remember is just a general suspicion you had of me, and the thought that i discredit people as scum, or something. (that's not an attempt to downplay what you said, i'm really just speaking off memory here)

^ does town NSG actually not notice when someone strongly thinks there is a possibility they are scum

only played with a townstump NSG who might as well have flaked out of boredom so yeah.

Okay not to be blatantly biased, but isn't scum typically the alignment that is more hyper sensitive to reads being made on them (at least intuitively i would think they'd be)

The words on page 19 are really not making sense to my brain, I think i'm a bit too sleepy. I'll still try to evaluate it

I'm very conflicted because on one hand it's an impressive mindset from Dann and it does come across like he is actively thinking -- like he had the thought north was emulating RC, he identifies parts of her play he finds different from usual, and finally he points out posts which, essentially, he's saying "These questions aren't asking much".

NSG pointing out that the questions were more rhetorical, as a type of comment than anything makes sense to me -- but I am so damn tired i cant actually tell what 388 is saying =w=

that is to say, the question is meant to demonstrate what i'm thinking, but also meant to be posed sort of to the playerlist at large rather than just to esooa.

I just don't remember you as being a very rhetorical player

as far as the addressing the actual point on Esooa, I am really not what you are seeing either - which may have contributed to how much I balked at your posting there

like I feel #385 is evidence of a deeper thought process running underneath esooa's earlier actions, not evidence that she is making up reads on the spot. it's consistent with her earlier actions and I think the fact that it is more developed is just a consequence of being prompted to share some of that underlying thought process.

could you elaborate on what you found scummy in their initial posting spree?

Dann gives me the impression he feels like he's got something, but simultaneously it does feel a *liiittle* bit like he's harping on a minor point and making it seem larger than it is. Like, asking a rhetorical question isn't really... a playstyle, is it.

K im going to pick up on page 19 tomorrow but i kept skimming forward cause i was curious and

Ich
flow trap
Enchant
Dannflor
Farren
--- NULL
redtea
northsidegal
Esooa
T3

This reaction reads to me as genuine?

UNVOTE: Esooa

Oh my fucking god all of Esooa/T3/Dann have scumread each other but ended up retracting and my pattern recognition is going nuts for it

Okay that's not totally true. Dann and T3 scumread Esooa but retracted. Esooa scumread Dann but retracted. Dann and T3 just had that part that pinged me early where Dann calls T3 maybe town now and T3 goes "Are you scum??". , but T3 ultimately TRs Dann. Dann has T3 null. The only read that hasn't gone anywhere is that Esooa never stopped scumreading T3 (from what i can tell skimming ISO).

it is worth noting Esooa got kinda ticked off at T3 for making a meta read but not terribly familar with if emotion means anything for her. T3 certainly bought it quickly though, all it took was some frustration and he dropped her from the bottom of his reads

Okay I'm going to sleep, i am excited to see if im still hot about my team theory or not tmrw. I think the only reason i consider it so strongly is that i *believe* Ich/Farren are probably town so far and that's like almost the entire game already cause theres so much scum. Granted I think my redtea and flow reads are kinda shaky. we will see we will see

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Likely

also, hello again Dann and redtea!!

And thank you for explaining 388 LOL will get to that and the rest of the reread later most likely yes

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lol i was about to get a little annoyed, forgot what phase we were in

I'm back for round #2. Will my Ich/Farren TRs + Redtea/flow TLs + Dann/Esooa/T3 team be torn to pieces ???

the couple of times i was reflecting about some of the stuff i said

I'm wary of the secondary tier T3 scum reads because I feel like if town - he's going to be a slot scum are always going to want to have in their back pocket as a miselim

like the way people are sort of dancing around his slot is feeling... performative? at the very least it makes me think Enchant/T3 are less likely to be aligned - the "meta I can't talk about" is a non-case but also taken seriously enough that it reads genuine. could easily be scum picking a random push on an easy townie but i lean towards that not being an lolrandom bus

This is the kinda read I make as scum in order to justify not voting someone

It's too.... I don't know how to explain. It's the kind of thing that is the means to an end more than an actual read (at least if I used it). Cause see, you could do it like any number of ways depending on what u need:

"If T3 is town, I think the scum are going to keeps SRs there for an easy miselim option"
"If T3 is town, I figure scum are going to keep him null and let down deal with him most likely"
"If T3 is town, there's no good reason to actually TR him, non-scumreaders are probably TMIing"

idk if that conveys my thinking well. The point is id make a read like that as scum. Also "but i lean towards" is phrasing i use as scum a bit more often but that's a non-point since obviously i dont know if thats true for Dann

And maybe that wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for this:

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

Because you used bad reasoning but were correct as to why in your townread of me so I think the thought was real.
Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

I can maybe see T3 town now

I can maybe see T3 town now

:eek: Are you scum?

First because im not exactly sure why Dann townread that (see my point i made earlier, this is showing a lack of thought process by T3 -- he forgot the read like 5 minutes after he made it. Usually i townread T3 when he seems to have some deeper thinking, not missing it!). But also T3's response.. just like why do you say that.. it just seems like awkwardly feeling like u gotta reply to partner to distance i d f k.

And T3 is in Dann's nulls, he obviously preferred Enchant yesterday and apparently flow (havent got there tho). Just seems sort of partner like

But yeah anyway that's what was primarily on my mind. im gonna go back to..... page... 19

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Oh if I were to ask Dann something though, why did you lean T3 town early game if i may ask. And additionally, is there any other reasoning you could give me with respect to 336 in specific -- cause I feel like i can think of mayyybe one reason it makes sense actually but it's not for the reasoning you stated and idk if maybe you had a bigger reason to believe scum would be more likely to SR town!T3

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would you further agree that, if you think that that is the wolfiest post in the thread, the fact that your initial reaction to what troje said about your meta was to imply that they were not up to date on it rather than to think that they were scum simply lying to push you somewhat indicates that you actually believe (or are informed) that troje is town?

1. esooa calls ich's post "the wolfiest in the thread"
2. the generous route is to say "you're not up to date on my meta, get your shit together." the ungenerous route is to say "you're scum making shit up. this doesn't even line up with my meta."
3. despite esooa's wolfy read of ich's post, she takes the generous route
4. so the question posed is: why is esooa, especially considering her meta, being generous and defensive, instead of firing back?
now that i'm laying it out, i don't think i fully comprehended this post at the time lmao
nsg kicks ass

i dont have anywhere to go with this im just being a helpful teacher's pet because i crave human interaction and have nothing else to do

OH I want to look at this bit again

I think I understand. It's all kinda circular. Ich calls Esooa more defensive/fighty as town, Esooa goes the generous route and doesn't get annoyed with Ich, but in doing so is doing the thing that Ich said would be scummier.

That is a hell of a post LOL.

So I do make posts (although they're a lot less detailed than that one) which are essentially going "Hmm.. you're doing X and Y even though Z, aren't you.." and i like dont really expect them to say something particularly helpful in response, it's just a comment to remind myself, show thought process, start discussion, whatever. So a rhetorical question or essentially a comment I guess. Sometimes it's not because you're expecting a helpful answer. Okay let me read Dann's post understanding better

by the way dann, i'm curious. i'm decently confident that you're relatively similar to me when it comes to following a flow of making a prediction, asking a question, and updating based on the response. so what was your prediction for this question, and how would you have updated either way i would have answered it?

Honestly? I expected you to say you were trying to model some facet of RC's play this game, or that you were trying to push or question more aggressively, or something along those lines.

I feel like there's a noticeable shift in the way you're approaching slots that I'm not used to seeing from you, (using Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM as my point of reference) and I asked because I think you are a player who would reasonably try to evolve or change or adapt their gameplay for a variety of reasons.

My model of you as a player is similar to what you've described as first making a prediction, then asking a question, and then updating whether privately or publicly. I also think you are like me in that you tend to spend a good amount of time observing before completely outing everything in your head, before later in the game becoming more completely transparent as you try to put all the information you've collected together. But specifically I also don't think of you as someone who likes to "lead the witness" or ask questions you know you're not going to get a revealing answer from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're someone who like builds a case against someone by like putting pressure on someone until they crack - you ask questions yes but you usually also try to give enough space to let that person comfortably show that they are town

This is why I asked you that question because I don't feel you've been playing the way I expect you to, most egregiously in your back and forth with esooa

specifically posts #386 and #388 felt very... out of character for my conception of how you would react in this situation. both questions appear to me to not really be questions? Like I don't believe you actually thought you were going to get a informative answer out of esooa either way here. You're framing an observation or essentially a "case" as a question for the person you're accusing, and not really in a way that allows for esooa to respond in any other way than basically "uh no" which is indeed how she reacted. you say you don't normally like to "lead the witness" and it feels like that is exactly what you're doing.

like did you actually get anything out of asking those questions? you disappeared from the conversation after you asked them. it feels more like a "gotcha" than you were genuinely interested in figuring out if there was a townie motivation for esooa's read there.

would you agree, that if town, esooa probably isn't going to respond to #388 with anything other than a variation of "uh no?" would you expect scum!esooa to have a different answer?

I got the point you were making on that page but honestly? it feels more like you found something scummy you could push rather than you finding an inconsistency and wanting to genuinely question it.

Okay so the question didn't feel "intentional" to Dann, it seemed more showy than actually asked for a purpose. I believe I am understanding this right.

I still feel like Dann is blowing something up to being scummier than it is, just like with flow at the beginning of the game. The RC modelling points are not bad at all and tbh I think shows a very impressive thought process if Dann is scum. I think the "it feels like you were going for a 'gotcha' rather than genuine questioning" point is overkill. It feels somewhat less likely to me that Dann got that conclusion from again what I think is more a comment worded as a question. Adding in the "you disappeared afterwards" and such feels like blowing something small into something bigger

Mm mm mmm it's so tricky though, I could believe it from town too

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Spoiler:

I feel almost uncomfortably white knighted here lol

and I'm someone who loves when people simp for me

anyways to talk more about the nsg stuff, maybe I'm just speaking from an outside perspective, not knowing nsg, but I didn't have a problem with her posts

I guess that's mostly cause, while her points were kinda weak in terms of actually being a scum read, I thought they were fine enough and they showed a pretty reasonable depth of thought

my biggest problem is that I got no response to this

i would say there are other concerns.

would it bother you if i refrained from elaborating on those for a while?

do you have nothing to say about my responses to you?

and I still have no clue what nsg thinks of my alignment at this point

I guess this kinda does get to what dann is saying though, her 'questions' irt to me don't actually seem to have been relevant, considering there's been no development after

even if they're not actually questions it feels bad to answer her problems and get.. nothing really

meh, there's valid concerns here and I do like that they're something Dann noticed, but overall I still find nsgs posts to be towny

would you say you're scum reading her rn, Dann? or is this more just something you wanted to bring up

I guess the vote on her kinda answers my last question lol

I'll ask instead what you think of slots like t3 or red

Every time you three interact in any capacity the alarm bell in my brain gets a little bit louder

Specifically i could see you and Dann goodcop/badcopping NSG since you don't really disagree with Dann but you're also keeping NSG as town so you're fine with both and the push (which is your counterwagon) can continue.

And obviously every time Dann/T3/Esooa interact extraneously (like asking Dann that question before realizing it didn't really need asking) i freak out a little. I'm pretty sure I'm just confbiased and tuning into these things but it's so interesting to me i cant help but comment on it everytime i see it so sorry for that

Because of a lack of push on me this game d1, I've been notably different thus far than my usual towngames, why did you put me at the top?

because you're being pocketed. Get some better reads. Maybe reading glasses

i laughed

Esooa interacts with Ich noticeably different from T3 even though in Esooa's eyes both of their scumreads are bad (regardless of alignment, probably -- T3 doesnt elaborate beyond sheeping and Ich is using meta Esooa says is irrelevant). I guess that might just be a preexisting relation with Ich though. Still kind of doubt Esooa and Ich go for that as buddies........ I think. Could see T3 and Ich doing it although granted T3 is putting Esooa at risk for basically no reason other than i guess distancing of some sort

And distancing is important in this setup! But does scum know that... well I've been reading like they do, in any case

Town!Esooa did a lot of analyzing the specific post/page in happy face and not much blanket reading. That was really the only thing that stood out.

you mean the same game I literally coasted the entirety of day 2 without doing anything?

Stop fucking using meta. This is unbelievable. It's so bad.

Also, VOTE: T3

Hmmmm so T3 offered more reasons in response to the first round of replies by Esooa. and then Esooa snapped at him, I see

This reaction reads to me as genuine?

UNVOTE: Esooa

Granted this does shake my confidence a bit. It actually kinda comes off more as appeasing Esooa than a distance, I think. Especially considering Esooa never lets up on T3 for the rest of the game. Maybe misread Esooa possibly

Esooa can you elaborate on your nsg read

Esooa can you elaborate on your nsg read

sure

So Esooa is the primary wagon with NSG as the secondary, but Esooa TRs NSG so she's voting T3 at the moment. Dann asks for Esooa to elaborate on NSG. I was going to make a point about mayyybe scum motivations for this but tbh there are too many possible motivations so whatever

i tried to meta redtea and their towngame has a depth that is not present here but also they've had town games where they literally just half flake and its -_- how do I read this shit.

VOTE: redtea fuck it.

WIM is at an all time low and we need a flip to kickstart this shit b4 apathy sets in

praying for a scum flip

sorry for sending u to hell redtea

i actually thought it was when I posted but when I said yea i knew it wasn't lol

I'm sooooort of doubting Ich bothers to fake this

i prepare posts in a notes PT as scum. im probably just gonna ignore that section

as I read on I do lean more to redtea being town................................ probably. Already got burnt on that once. Not sure if i could quantify it either

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

Can you remind me, when we play together?
I can't remember.

Newbie 2051 I believe

Thanks. Now i want to forget it again.

Either way, do you have questions to me?

lol

what do you find strange about it? I admit I had trouble navigating the phrasing at first but I think it makes pretty clear sense to me now

Last night when i saw the posts I briefly thought a dann/redtea/nsg team was viable based on thinking that there was beatlejuice going on to save redtea but on reflection of the above i dont think so. If redtea IS scum I think though the 2 have higher chances of being scum based on that event

hahaha, that is a completely backwards and paranoiac take

way, way

less likely than even individually a scumslip happening.

That'd have been incredible

633 - i dont know why but im eating up most of what Farren is posting this game, dunno why.

VOTE: t3

Unpopular opinion.

You guys are fucking killing me with the random comments on each other

To be honest i have no idea wtf Enchant did to become Dann's top scumread, voted by T3 in a random short span, scumread by Ich, and flow seemed to do some sort of "gotcha" thing that went over my head. Maybe i should free up time to do mafia when it isn't 4 am one of these times...

He's a little awkward. 623 was kind of unecessarily defensive. Maybe. He did some jokey comments under pressure. I suppose it looked sort of bad

[esooa, ich troje]
[farren, red tea?]
[nsg, t3] - null/mixed
[flow trap]
[enchant]

this is about where I am after a reread

I wanna ask about all these lol

what about myself and ich

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME

Interesting that NSG wanted to "fight" dann over Ich!town (dann thinking Ich is diseased town brain rather than scum brain). Feel like if Dann is scum thats probably a read on a townie.

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

I've modded this setup once and played it once before

Excellent. Then how does someone you think has a "diseased town brain" and comes up with a "crackpot paranoia theory" makes a good Heaven candidate, given the existence of Judgment Day?

Diseased as in paranoid and conspiracy theory like.... not like, bad at reading.

Seems like Farren is town though i dont think there was any point to doing that as scum at all. I see Ich took it as a discredit though. I sort of lean against that, not really sure im seeing the point of discrediting one particular read by one player about a future phase that hasnt even happened yet

Farren, it feels really badly like you're setting up to avoid voting for me D2 and planting excuses as well as pushing others to not do so either. Not sure what to think of it.

Like yeah i dont see any reason why scum!Farren would feel pressured to do that really. I'd probably not do that in his shoes considering the likely repercussions

I feel like I've explained myself as well I can

my ideal heaven would be nsg because I respect her reads the most but only if I can be very confident she's town

heavening scum makes this game very very hard

ich troje is currently one of my top town reads and that's really the only criteria i care about beyond them beyond town reading me

A little worried Dann is going to continue to use this as an excuse to squeak out of Heavening NSG down the line --- wait a minute this read feels familiar

This isn't really a discredit though, this is just setting NSG up as being one that you must be very sure is town to heaven. If Dann and Farren were both scum setting up seeds so they can paranoia on players later, Dann is setting a finely-tuned and subtle trap whereas Farren is basically outright announcing he is setting up a landmine and putting a bright red "X" where he places it

If that makes sense o.o

Nevertheless I can appreciate the heavy irony of making a read literally seconds after I have the opposite take on a similar read. I crack myself up sometimes

[Morning Tweet]

kinda agree this entire argument is pretty dumb though. "Diseased town brain" is relating to ONE read koba made. Dann isn't saying they're gonna make awful reads. Kobas actually good at lylos imo anyways. But yeah the amount of things farren is just neglecting here is pretty bad

in any case, I agree it was a faulty argument though, yes ^^ This is pretty much exactly how i interpreted it

[Morning Tweet]

After a brief reskim I firmly believe Enchant/Farren is TvS

...did these two even interact before this post was made?

I had a dream RC replaced into this game and yelled at nsg and I for having terrible reads

holy shit lol

Briefly considered if redtea/Farren are scum together and i have every read wrong

i would heaven farren in an instant, for the record, if not for the fact i think he might be a critical player for town atm

that's my one strong read

I'm.. doubting it, though

Oh good I'm at the weird end of day i mentioned all the way back at the start of my rep-in!! With context now!

Flow trap, T3, and Dann are still voting for Enchant for... whatever reasoning I guess when Enchant had that small burst of posts.

Enchant and Esooa are obviously still on T3 with quite some conviction. Then Farren joins and it is reiterated that Enchant will die if nothing happens.

Redtea unvoted a couple of pages ago. Thinks flow is mafia but scumleans on Enchant at least a bit. NSG I take it was just gone.

..

Flow trap listens to Ich and votes for Farren for whatever reason, so now T3 is going to die. and T3 votes for Farren so Farren is second place..

T3 convinces Farren to switch off of him and vote out Enchant instead. Holy shit lol and T3 just so happens to "not scumread Farren", okay. I will note Farren's behaviour is actually pretty towny to me here, i think him pondering and realizing that T3 can betray him if he wants but overall it'll be better for knowledge is just something that'd be harder to have faked. Page 32 for reference.

But yeah T3 though. Lol. Basically just did whatever to survive, i dont exactly buy that he just so happened to townread Farren

I only voted Enchant because I wanted to save farren and me.

You mean yourself. If you cared about Farren, why would you vote him over yourself. Especially considering your limbait past. How is this something you thought about as town at all

Surely you would have not swapped to Farren as town, just seems odd to me. Im gonna review that again tomorrow though see if i still feel strongly about that. Makes no sense to me rn

Oh yeah, twilight is a thing. I can post until flipped.

Hope you've got a lot of good explaining skills, Enchant, because that was a pretty scummy last minute vote there.

Last words: keep Ich Troje out of heaven.

You know you werent being limmed here

I mean, T3 could have limmed Farren if he wanted

I think the general stereotype/reputation of NSG as a player is that she has an excellent town game, so excellent, in fact, that meta is an strong tool to catch her with when she's scum. she also tends to prefer town and has a much higher posting rate and WIM when town. I think she *might* tend to make more time for games where she rolls town but i wouldn't consider flakiness or lurking to be strictly AI *by itself*

nsg can feel free to correct me on any of that assessment obviously but that's how I assess the general perception of her as a player

Do you have a conclusion from this as to NSG's alignment? It seems like you're implying she's at least slightly more likely scum. At least enough paranoia to not be sure enough to Heaven her, despite wanting her there, i would say (・ω<)

ich troje if you had to vote someone who wasn't yourself this phase, do you know who it would be?

For me, I would've said T3 a few days ago, but now I'm unsure

Probably Ich tbh

You wanted to heaven T3?

[Morning Tweet]

blablabla skimming Ich/Farren interactions if they're important ill look at em again. Presently thinking both town. I might even have Farren more strongly as town........ maybe

I wish t3 went over instead though

maybe this is me just saying this cause enchant was a town flip but I don't know why a single person is town reading t3 tbh

I think my first choice for heaven though would be Dan

Oh this reminds me!!! of the other thing i was pondering today but forgot!!!

Feel like this team could probably use the townreads on Dann + the cred for bussing T3 in order to win. So that sort of justifies bussing the shit out of T3, i think, cause i think if Dann is scum they are positioned well enough

Uh yeah thats basically all i got to say on that. Okay it wasnt as deep a thought as i remembered

Im sorry for this but im probably gonna go over most of the stuff happening in phase 2 tmrw cause I'm hungry and tired

[Morning Tweet]

Fun game to read although in hindsight i would have liked more content to read, actually! I've got *some* thoughts competing in my head

Redtea is a townlean i feel i cannot be certain of. In a way, same with flowtrap. I don't really know yet.

Really like Redtea's take on Farren now in hindsight. Is he right about Farren cause they're informed or because they're right (i think) town? Eeeeeeh idk yet

And there are glimpses of Dann and Esooa that i see on occasion that makes me pause. So, can't really be sure.. im really not there

T3 just gets scummier as I read though I have no idea why he's not being called out harder. Including by Dann who seemingly has him null. Ich and Farren I get are kinda distracted, though.

Im still offput by T3/Dann together, so Dann just doesnt find T3 scummy and ignores him in favour of Enchant, Dann had the theory that scum will want to SR T3 so he's wary of scumreading him too easily.. T3 interacts with Dann sort of awkwardly for no reason.... like mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Morning Tweet]

there's a sizable difference when i rep in as town versus scum but it's not effort-wise. This is my scum rep-in

The difference is whether or not im willing to constantly have takes versus keeping everyone mostly at "slight town" or "null". you can probably guess which one of those i do as scum constantly.

[Morning Tweet]

well my only apprehension about heavening MT is that I want them in the game

That's pretty much all I've got for this day phase

♡

it sucks having to basically carry out the same function as night killing your top town lol

there's no night kills so you just have to do it yourself

fucked up

Well the interesting thing about this setup is that for scum to win, they MUST flip their best players

And usually the house starts to crumble if the leader goes absent. you've got all the associatives

So if scum were to get flipped I probably wouldn't be terribly beat up about it if they were someone we were never going to catch. I suppose my point is that you don't *have* to heaven top town. Although it's probably the most intuitive and safest.

Also, have we played before by the way?

[Morning Tweet]

You wanted to heaven T3?

I appearently didn't say T3 was a TR or if I did I can't find it

I kind of implied it here

Spoiler:

I don't recall you saying you TR enchant, so is there another reason?

vote farren

im intending to switch to t3 regardless b4 deadline. I'm not letting a wagon farren wants get through

Ok, VOTE: Farren

Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

My charm obviously :D

Though, perhaps a sense of TvT banter

Well i mean there's townreading then there's Heavening which (presumably) meant T3 was your most confident town out of everyone

could i ask why you like or liked T3 perhaps?

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet is town for effort I think. That doesn't totally outweigh the meta case on nsg.

So am i town for effort or is NSG's meta making me scum, you can't do both then pick whichever one is convenient later

It's easy to post a lot when you start with 39 pages?

I would say.... yes, for the most part. I think T3's read of me is as boiled down as it can get. I think it's possible to TR the review but not because im posting a lot

[Morning Tweet]

lol.
MT definitely rolled a scum PM with farren :lol:

OOF

I think your tunnel on Farren is bad and you were correct townreading him earlier in the game and some of his best parts (EoD) you're scumreading but I have not quite gotten the scum motivation for discrediting your heaven preemptively.

Don't worry though the start of today where i presume you talk more about it is what im gonna read more of tonight

[Morning Tweet]

yes

[Morning Tweet]

could i ask why you like or liked T3 perhaps?

Yes, but I forgot :good:

I think they sounded relaxed which is towny

lmao yall are killing me this game

don't think we've played

I see, i see

im gonna give Ich's Farren SR an honest go since I was probably glossing a bit over it earlier

I think the crackpot paranoia theory about me/you/redtea is like, far more likely to come from a diseased town brain than a scum brain

I think generally the way they're thinking about the game state, while not necessarily accurate, points towards a town mindset

and i liked their progression on my slot

I have a dinner but I can expand a little later tonight. or honestly just next phase because I think they're my heaven candidate

Excellent. Then how does someone you think has a "diseased town brain" and comes up with a "crackpot paranoia theory" makes a good Heaven candidate, given the existence of Judgment Day?

Farren, it feels really badly like you're setting up to avoid voting for me D2 and planting excuses as well as pushing others to not do so either. Not sure what to think of it.

Okay, so why does Farren need to stop you in specific from getting voted in? Let's go over the context.. Farren has already expressed a townlean on you. Farren isn't saying you're scummy, he is contesting Dann's reasoning to have you go to heaven when he describes you as having diseased town brain

It seems most likely to me this came from a misunderstanding of what "diseased town brain" meant, no? farren seems to interpret it as "Ich is a tinfoil conpiracy theorist all the time" when Dann more or less was just applying it to the one read you made on Dann/NSG that one time as a reason to TR you.

But maybe Farren fakes the misunderstanding or is just trying to discredit you. Why do you think he feels the need to do that?

Farren, do you think i have a "diseased town brain" then?

Because that's dann's read, not yours, but you took it and said "i dont want that in heaven".

Also while im on the subject, you seem to have misinterpreted Farren as saying "I dont want that in heaven", when he was actually saying "Why would you want that in Heaven, Dann?"

Addtionally, you had a really hard TR on Farren before this point, so I **reeallly** question why you're taking the nongenerous route that he's discrediting you rather than the generous one that he is simply questioning Dann's logic.

[Morning Tweet]

That is really funny that you were taking his scum meta though lol. My point being is that you were townreading Farren very hard up til that point so theoretically you're actually a good heaven candidate. Scum doesn't need to send scum to heaven, they can actually just send pocketed townies just fine. Anyway,

After a brief reskim I firmly believe Enchant/Farren is TvS

I already engaged with this but you haven't replied yet -- i didnt even notice these two interact, so I'm curious what you meant by this.

Oh yeah, twilight is a thing. I can post until flipped.

Hope you've got a lot of good explaining skills, Enchant, because that was a pretty scummy last minute vote there.

Last words: keep Ich Troje out of heaven.

You know you werent being limmed here

This is a confirm biased read unless you have reason to believe that's the case over him not knowing imo

also after me yall 100% need to turbo farren into hell

Not happening if I have anything to say about it. Either of these things.

I do not risk my life like that as scum unless there is a significant reward outweighing the risk. T3 could easily have switched back to me, and I'd be dead instead.

The only way scum|me doesn't have to worry about that is if T3 is scum as well. In which case, that entire song-and-dance is completely unnecessary, and everything was faked.

And there's no way scum|me could fake that ending, unless *Enchant* was scum and in on it. The timing was too tight unless I know it's happening in advance. Given that Enchant didn't say anything until *literally* the last minute, and given that Enchant flipped Town - not possible.

As for you - no. Not how after you ended D1. If you're Town, I strongly recommend taking a step back and looking at things again. Because otherwise, this is not going to end well for either of us.

these are the ramblings of scum desperate to explain their actions. You were only concerned with self preservation. Nothing else. If you were town who really thought I was scum, you let yourself flip there and then your town flip would be pretty decisive for that. But no, I do not believe you flip town here. And my town flip here will prove you are full of shit.

You're in full anti-spew mode and you know you won't be sheeped here.

T3 is the one who saved his ass by making a townread on Farren and convincing Farren to switch his vote??? If you wanna talk self-preservation lol

I'm curious why you're applying anti-spew mode, he doesn't even really mention anyone other than T3 in that post. And I mean, you do need to explain why scum!Farren opens himself up to getting killed by T3 there, no?

I see you're assuming that T3 is therefore scum with Farren since it makes no sense from scum!Farren and town!T3. Okay then, I guess.

the salt stuff and farren not interacting with u doesnt mean much to me let me know if it is important i guess

lmao please fuck off with that, you KNEW as soon as you voted enchant you were safe unless someone else came in and swapped off enchant, and posted with that assumption.

Why do you think this? What is the reasoning you're using to conclude Farren did everything through a scum lense? You're not refuting his points you're basically just calling him a liar which is pointless

[Morning Tweet]

me and esooa mindmelding
'cept for dann heaven
then again i have one (1) person im confident sending to heaven and i don't want to this phase

To be honest it's kind of felt the same way for me

Like those thoughts exactly actually

Flowtrap do you intentionally try to be as scummy as possible just as town or do you do that as both alignments

howdy

howdy howdy howdy

Damn where am I at

Uhhhh so like as I read later into the game my heart wants Esooa and redtea to be town pretty strongly. By heart i just mean sharing takes with them and really *feeling* it but i dont so much have a reason

My head says Ich/Farren are town for more classical reasons i guess.

and a mixture of both doesn't like T3 and Dann. I would condemn T3 to the fiery pits of hell in a heartbeat. Like literally even if he is town (Which im doubting but it's T3 i guess) i dont want him anywhere near judgment day LMAO

Flow I would probably defer to the whoever the flow professionals are i have 0 experience with him

@Manatee

You've got NSG on the VC

[Morning Tweet]

HOLY FUCK it's deadline?

Well I'm not done playing this game personally so I'd probably vote Ich, probably town for basic reasons.. even if Ich is scum i'd rather have them eliminated rn then reeval anyway

My only concern being is that if Farren is in fact town, which I lean towards I guess not with total confidence but some, then we autolose judgement day

[Morning Tweet]

i'd have to review to find the scum within redtea/Esooa/Farren...? if flow is town or i messed up a scumread. I would guess Esooa even though i like her. I think dunking on T3 is viable enough and i psyche myself out with some of the Dann/T3 interactions. But tbh i was tired and paranoid af for some reason when i read over those, would have to check again

There'll be plenty of time assuming we're heavening Ich

[Morning Tweet]

Also this game always been this dead? Think Ich implied that earlier. That's a shame, i prefer more material >w< tried my best in any case

The only thing I really want to do rn is kill T3 and heaven Ich

[Morning Tweet]

Also don't vote Ich just let the deadline timer run out

[Morning Tweet]

MT looks to have nice looking reads but then I see small lines put in that make me go "huh thats not right at all"
Like them calling on people not to vote for me more and let timer run out while theyre the leading counterwagon - something subtle that is not directly saying "vote for me" but trying to keep themselves viable.

that's the most important thing from my posts u thought to reply to???

I directly said I wanted to stay in the game, actually. but yes I also didnt want that to be an invitation for ppl to hammer u -- I wanted to wait on Dann for instance

[Morning Tweet]

I've played with t3 before and I didn't struggle to find them in any way at all. They were my town core day 1 both games. They can give reads as town, and I haven't seen that this game

Yes while I agree with Dann that T3 has a baseline of being scummy I have townread him in the past, and correctly! Idk if that was luck or not but I have seen things in T3 that showed a hidden thought process, whereas in this game there is none

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Farren #1020

HOLY FUCK it's deadline?

Well I'm not done playing this game personally so I'd probably vote Ich, probably town for basic reasons.. even if Ich is scum i'd rather have them eliminated rn then reeval anyway

My only concern being is that if Farren is in fact town, which I lean towards I guess not with total confidence but some, then we autolose judgement day

*ding ding ding*

If they're scum, then scum is one step closer to a Heaven victory - but we get some breathing room during Hell 2.
If they're Town, then you have precisely summed up the problem.

Except that there's an obvious solution to that problem, if it arises: eliminating me during Hell 2. Better would be eliminating scum, but we'd be in a 4v3 ELo; I don't like our odds in that world.

Or we exalt someone else. Problem: If we exalt Town, then I predict Hell 2 will be a redux of what Heaven 1 started as - which is not conducive to actually figuring anything out. If we exalt scum ... probably the same outcome, except it isn't Judgment Day when it happens, so there's at least some extra time.

while this technically solves it, neither you nor i trust ich's reads

me and esooa mindmelding
'cept for dann heaven
then again i have one (1) person im confident sending to heaven and i don't want to this phase

To be honest it's kind of felt the same way for me

Like those thoughts exactly actually

:eek:
including that person being farren?

I've agreed with Esooa several times

Except whenever she townreads Dann which freaks me out

And I'd vote Farren if Ich weren't being leavened

o.o

[Morning Tweet]

good morning dann

[Morning Tweet]

cliff notes on why you scum read me?

Hmm as I recall your interactions with NSG and T3 ping me as odd. The post that got me the worst was the one about you suspecting ppl will scumread T3 if he's town so the mislim option is always open. That is exactly the kind of read I'd make as scum if I had an ulterior motive cause you could just as easily make an argument for the inverse

NSG I thought you were being a little resistant towards, I think you were largely reaching when you called out that question of hers to Esooa as scummy. Maybe cause you want to keep NSG as paranoia possible scum all game

You also did this with flow at the beginning of the game where it felt like a stretch the amount of scumminess you were getting out of a post of his

And just added on I scumread T3 and he interacts with you unnecessarily at least twice which psyches me out. And you just so happen to be keeping him null because he has baseline scumminess.

That being said it's been almost a little too generous for T3 if he's your partner so not entirely certain. If he were town I'd be concerned abt u all over again because them you were have an open opportunity to attack ppl scumreading him

[Morning Tweet]

It's not *really* that people are saying "well look at these scummy posts by T3", though? At least, i dont feel like that's all ive/esooa've been saying\

I was also immediately pinged by #26. It is a

very

odd comment to make two pages into the game when there are only two ostensibly RVS votes on northsidegal. This is compounded by the fact that Farren explained his vote clearly only a few votes before.

so, it seems like flow trap is both just posting an observation to post without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon.

flow trap did neither so my observation in #13 was less tongue-in-cheek than might have been first interpreted. I didn't really scum read flow trap off of that, but that was my first reaction of, "huh that's a bit awkward." but then I tried to coax flow trap to join the wagon on NSG and they just refused for seemingly no real reason. I felt like he was using the cutesy-memey responses to avoid having to take responsibility for

actively

avoiding the wagon.

like i tend to think townies, especially in RVS, are on average more likely to swing their vote around and build wagons even for n/a reasons. I don't know flow trap and I'm probably not going to meta them anytime soon but I am still lacking a sense of why their approach to voting nsg was like oil on water

I don't think that overall really says anything about northsidegal's alignment, more just that flow trap seemed to be deliberately avoiding taking a bold stance (like being the third vote on a wagon could be seen as)

Flow's early game does come across as odd to me, im not sure if i could have quantified it like this though.

Posting observations just to post, mm, I guess maybe. I think your point that "I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon." (which u mention a couple times) is a stretch, since early games can vary so wildly.

Hmm, haven't decided what i make of it overall. I think flow came across as weird but i think the additional points that he didnt interact the way "thought a townie would" are overkill

I think flow's opening was bad too. I just interpreted lines like "I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon." or "I felt like he was using the cutesy-memey responses to avoid having to take responsibility for actively avoiding the wagon.", as well as the bit about townies on average in RVS, it just seemed like taking it out of proportion

To be fair it's a pretty small point though since taking things out of proportion kinda just happens in RVS. I felt you did the same thing with NSG when you said you interpreted her question as "going for a gotcha", or when you said "i didnt take you for a rhetorical player" -- when all she did was ask a rhetorical question once. It seemed like a *bit* of a stretch to keep NSG as reasonably suspicious

That being said there are parts of ur play i also found impressive which im reminded of, like how you were keeping track of NSG's play as seeming RC-like then you engaged on her specifically to see if that were the case. You have towny posts too i guess the T3 interaction confbiases me more

[Morning Tweet]

It's easy to post a lot when you start with 39 pages?

you're just jealous she can do quantity AND quality
has literally done more scumhunting than anyone else in the game

MT is either high-effort scum the heights of which make slackers like me quake in their shoes, or town.
so unless anyone has something to actually say in regards to the former, mt is gonna sit right next to farren in my town reads

I'm back for round #2. Will my Ich/Farren TRs + Redtea/flow TLs + Dann/Esooa/T3 team be torn to pieces ???

this isn't actual commentary i just wanna say this legitimately got me hyped to read your posts lol

I am so pocketed right now >W<

im very happy you read my catchup and engaged with it in any case!!

there's a sizable difference when i rep in as town versus scum but it's not effort-wise. This is my scum rep-in

The difference is whether or not im willing to constantly have takes versus keeping everyone mostly at "slight town" or "null". you can probably guess which one of those i do as scum constantly.

and MT brings it up herself!

maybe it's the fact i'm informed on your alignment reading that game, but your coverage there seems a lot sloppier than your coverage here. More just throwing shit out and seeing what people make of it rather than having your own internal consistency/thought train, if that makes sense.

I agree! Faking a thought train is exceptionally hard for me as scum (so much so that sometimes I keep a notes PT to help me remember), so thats why i emphasise it so hard as town. Sorry, scum me

But yeah I agree in any case that's there's a pretty noticeable difference. another one is that I'm usually summing up rather than giving my own opinion on things, im scared to do that as scum for some reason because i forget opinions of town!me are super volatile.

[Morning Tweet]

MT #979
if im reading this right are you saying dann is dancing around t3 based on his post about people dancing around t3

Hahahahaha

It's just EXACTLY the kind of post i would make to justify keeping a scummy slot in contention but not directly suspect them. Cause you could easily just do the opposite and say "If T3 were town, I think scum would probably just townread/ignore him and let town murder him, then profit and win". I'd just use whichever one of those takes are more convenient to me -- it's a bit less likely id use them as town

MT #981
as to dann seeing more into nsg's post than there probably was- being ungenerous as it were- in my opinion, the ich/esooa blowup mirrors it. Ich was finding all kinds of shit in esooa that neither i nor anyone else (iirc) was seeing, or at least not anywhere near to the depth he was.

Is that something you've considered yet? Or do you have any strong thoughts about that interaction?

(add: i might go back and review ich/farren, similarly. Can you see why i don't want to heaven ich? lol)

I recall Ich being like "Esooa you're not making sense SMH go in the scumpile timeout and think about what you did"

i also recall Ich clinging to a metatell on Esooa that was making Esooa pretty annoyed

It came across to me like Ich was confirm biased and sort of taking everything Esooa says as scummy (Kinda like how they do to Farren as well) which is something i usually associate with Ich's play in general. With Dann it's a lot more subtle. I think it's similar in that it's ungenerous though yea

[Morning Tweet]

Flow and T3 immediately voting Farren ?.? How convenient that such memey players just happen to have probably the most viable elimination as their chief scumread

[Morning Tweet]

well i wouldve had to convince someone to vote mt with me anyway

Morning Tweet could have self-voted.
Whether or not she would have is a different question, but it was certainly an option for her at the time.

true enough
just because it's you- were you going anywhere with this?

ye i wouldn't have though, wanna keep playing

T3, what's your evaluation of the gamestate right now?

No clue.

So you're completely lost then, except you know you wanna vote Farren

[Morning Tweet]

PoE and also just not even doing much in the way of like... actual content.

So when asked about redtea, your answer is "Idk they haven't done actual content" (which isn't really true)

There may be some funny = town bias. Honestly I haven't really noticed redtea that much.

and when asked about flow the first thing that comes to mind is that he's funny

Like T3 is capable of having reads, he can show at least some thought process but this game it justs sounds like you're making stuff up and havent actually been following along and solving

[Morning Tweet]

Scumm Dannflor is scummy. Town Dannflor is towny.

What is your point?

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: re MT

MT #979
if im reading this right are you saying dann is dancing around t3 based on his post about people dancing around t3

Hahahahaha

It's just EXACTLY the kind of post i would make to justify keeping a scummy slot in contention but not directly suspect them. Cause you could easily just do the opposite and say "If T3 were town, I think scum would probably just townread/ignore him and let town murder him, then profit and win". I'd just use whichever one of those takes are more convenient to me -- it's a bit less likely id use them as town

okay. okay, i guess i can see how this level of abstraction still has something to say.

MT #981
as to dann seeing more into nsg's post than there probably was- being ungenerous as it were- in my opinion, the ich/esooa blowup mirrors it. Ich was finding all kinds of shit in esooa that neither i nor anyone else (iirc) was seeing, or at least not anywhere near to the depth he was.

Is that something you've considered yet? Or do you have any strong thoughts about that interaction?

(add: i might go back and review ich/farren, similarly. Can you see why i don't want to heaven ich? lol)

I recall Ich being like "Esooa you're not making sense SMH go in the scumpile timeout and think about what you did"

i also recall Ich clinging to a metatell on Esooa that was making Esooa pretty annoyed

It came across to me like Ich was confirm biased and sort of taking everything Esooa says as scummy (Kinda like how they do to Farren as well) which is something i usually associate with Ich's play in general. With Dann it's a lot more subtle. I think it's similar in that it's ungenerous though yea

So in ich's case, it's more or less nai on its own (now we know he's town). Dann plays more carefully, so being ungenerous is somewhat ooc as town. So the question is whether people are satisfied with dann's "nsg makes me paranoid in games in general" statements.
which would then lead us to look to see if dann has done something similar. And you brought up flow trap.
So the question to

that

is whether people are satisfied with "it was early game". Which, maybe if this were about a different player, it would be satisfactory. But the fact that it's dann seems, once again, out of character.
Is that the sum of it?

Yeah so with Ich it seems like they started with a conclusion "Farren must be scum" and just continously took anything Farren said (or Esooa) as proof.

With Dann it's more careful, it's taking something that could be scummy and giving it a lot of additional weight to make it appear like a whole case. It's something i do as scum to make ppl seem worse than they are -- just start with something and add a ton of reasons. I could point out the sentences exactly but i definitely had some of them quoted in my earlier posts abt this

Also with Ich it's a "This person is scum, see see see see" whereas with Dann it's like "I see all of these suspicious things about you, it's keeping me from townreading you (for NSG)" but NSG isn't like a tunnel of Dann's it's just a conflicted opinion that ppl could jump on NSG for or not and it doesnt require much of a commitment on Dann's part

I'm not terribly familiar with Dann's play to know if he does read very very deeply into one post and come up with additional reasons to make it look bad (Dann wrote relatively big posts on just flow's tiny bad post and NSG's question for Esooa) which is typically something i associate with scum justifying a SR

[Morning Tweet]

PoE and also just not even doing much in the way of like... actual content.

So when asked about redtea, your answer is "Idk they haven't done actual content" (which isn't really true)

There may be some funny = town bias. Honestly I haven't really noticed redtea that much.

and when asked about flow the first thing that comes to mind is that he's funny

Like T3 is capable of having reads, he can show at least some thought process but this game it justs sounds like you're making stuff up and havent actually been following along and solving

So uh
Honestly redtea was in my PoE so I kind of made up reasons. Honestly I'm self conscious about how my readlists look as both alignments. I know this sounds scummy af but *shrug*

Wait wait wait, so you made up reasoning to scumread redtea and upon being called out for it you're now admitting it

You could have just said you don't remember redtea's content but instead you said

PoE and also just not even doing much in the way of like... actual content.

I mean... you're self conscious about how ppl read you to the point where you make up reads? Making up reads is what scum does

[Morning Tweet]

MT I've played one game with you and I was limmed on day 2 32 hours into the game.

Okay but did you make up reads in that mini normal?

I think you only died so fast cause Ydrasse was lolcatting that game

But yes I am aware you have a certain baseline-level scumminess. But I've read your games and i actually haven't scumread you before this one

[Morning Tweet]

I've played with t3 before and I didn't struggle to find them in any way at all. They were my town core day 1 both games. They can give reads as town, and I haven't seen that this game

???
I have been giving reads this game.

So do you have reads on players or are were those all made up?

[Morning Tweet]

i dunno, we got T3 voting Farren (most likely elimination that might work), giving reads, going back and saying he made up the reasoning rather than not just outright saying he doesnt have reasoning, and some "scum!me doesn't do X" type stuff

I have never seen T3 completely make up reads. Have reads without elaboration, sure, but does town!T3 feel the need to make shit up..? Surely town!T3 doesn't give any fucks right?

And again it's just convenient his scumread happens to be Farren who gamestate-wise *could* be elimed if enough ppl sheeped Ich.

T3's best arguments for being town are that he would've sent me to Heaven if scum (???) and that he's more involved with discussion as scum. Oh and that he's lazy as town but not as scum??

Not true. Town!me is usually passive and blurts things out meanwhile scum!me actively engages with discussions. Also, town!me often will skim over walls andnot respond to them.

Are you using ignoring redtea's posts as proof you're in your town meta?!?! So in other words, if you were scum, you would read their posts but since you're town you just skimmed and forgot about them?

Is that your argument for you being town?

[Morning Tweet]

PoE and also just not even doing much in the way of like... actual content.

This isn't an "exaggerated reason" though, no? This is just 100% made up

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: T3
I messed up big time and if Farren is town then I'm getting shot and we lose.

how's that different from you eliminating yourself then town!Farren getting shot by Ich? Voting yourself doesnt solve the problem or do anything helpful, showing that you're town trying to solve does

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:
well actually
fuck
why not hell farren then

Do you think there's a reasonable chance Farren is scum?

Otherwise I'm fine throwing out T3 and if he's town and Ich judgements town!Farren that's like 2 bad plays by town back to back (the first being all of T3's play)

Like I'm fine just throwing T3 out, this'd be a new low if he's town and I trust Ich will make the best decision they can... even if it's just doing Farren again. As long as they take some time to think about it and don't insta Farren than it's whatever

[Morning Tweet]

tho ich might just as easily vote MT or esooa :/

I think we just accept that Ich is going to be very hit-or-miss lul

Bottom line is I want T3 out no matter what and killing Farren first doesn't really help

Maybe seeing Farren!town makes Ich reeval but it'd probably be criminal to not throw out T3 still so idk

[Morning Tweet]

Intent to hammer

[Morning Tweet]

Out of curiosity, have you self-voted as town in the past T3 after giving up? That's typically something scum does when they give up, since it, ya know, still helps a scum wincon denying wagon info

[Morning Tweet]

Made up reason#Made up read

I mean, sure, but you start to wonder why he felt the need to make up reads

[Morning Tweet]

Made up reason#Made up read

I mean, sure, but you start to wonder why he felt the need to make up

reads

reasoning

u know what i mean

Why give fake reasons in response to Farren asking for reasons rather than just say "Idk" (the latter of which is what id expect T3 to do a bit more, since that's the "IDGAF" type of play and not the "I'm self conscious" type)

he gave fake reasons because he was too "self conscious" to admit he didnt have much reasoning, so why does he seemingly feel more worried about how we perceive him than actually solving the game :?

[Morning Tweet]

Out of curiosity, have you self-voted as town in the past T3 after giving up? That's typically something scum does when they give up, since it, ya know, still helps a scum wincon denying wagon info

Yes, Mini Normal 2205. I realized I was playing terribly and would be ELO limbait so I self voted when at E-2. My dying words were to vote scum!Anya but town didn't listen and we lost.

You.... voted yourself out on

day two

because you didn't want to be in Xylo.......?

In any case so you do self vote as town. I see that you tried to explain your scumread of Pooky as u died, so you seemingly didn't make up the reasoning for your reads.. you still had scumreads on at least Pooky/Anya and tried to push them. Here i think all you've done is sheep Ich on Farren as your strongest SR and make up stuff for the rest of the PoE

from a precursory skim of your ISO in that game you're not really quite the same although could be confbias i suppose

[Morning Tweet]

I kinda want to think about who is scum if T3 does happen to be town

Flow probably would be scum for whiteknighting so hard and voting with T3 onto Farren prolly. also making Farren more likely town

I'd guess Esooa scum in that case

Redtea and Farren i probably keep town

Then it's just Dann. Oh. That's the entire plist. So without T3 i'd guess flow/Dann/Esooa .....?

I should probably put a little more effort into figuring that out since I'm a little worried now seeing that T3 selfvotes as town and obviously T3 gets miselimed in every game he's town. Which isn't a valid defense or anything and i am certainly not seeing the things ive townread him for in the past, but ya kno, couldnt hurt

[Morning Tweet]

As for with T3 as a partner i think flow makes a little less sense, Flow like has T3 as their highest townread for a lot of the game but doesnt have any reasoning why. Not familiar with flow but I'm sooort of getting the vibe they goof off as town so maybe im a little more willing to buy that they're very low effort town rather than openwolfing scum

Still kinda same thoughts on Dann

Esooa could be scum playing to win through bussing T3 and getting Dann/herself outta here, i think that potentially could have been a viable path to victory esp with Ich's tunnel on Farren and the relatively low WIM this game. Maybeee.

Redtea i'm sort of mindmelding with and id be really sad if they were scum. Like on the Farren and Esooa and rn with T3 and all the various other stuffs

Farren i definitely townlean........ do i think scum distancing with T3 or just scum being lazy and using him as a miselim...... probably the latter... i overall really think that end of day 1 as well as the start of today is just scum!T3 who is reading Farren whichever way is more convienent to him and failing to cover with any real reasoning

Like T3 literally decided Farren was town when he was on the chopping block and getting Farren's vote would save his ass, but today T3 has Farren as strongest scum now that Farren is the strongest miselim option

The really complicated interpretation is that scum!T3 and scum!Farren were doing crazy distancing theatrics D1 but somehow i kind of doubt it. I think this is what Ich's preferred view of the gamestate was, wish i coulda heard more about that. I think that team probably doesn't vote for each other, THEN decide to openwolf and move their votes elsewhere to get rid of a townie. i think they wouldn't have put each other to X-1 first, wait a bit, THEN do the openwolfing part. I also think Farren's posts of suspicion towards T3 doublecrossing him at the end of the day were fairly believable. I'd be pretty impressed if that interaction was done SvS

Thats the entire game again lol not many of us

Another point against Esooa is that they haven't really been around lately, her main take is that T3 is scum. Also thinks im fairly towny and wanted to heaven me out over Ich. They have really promising association with Dann as well (they started to suspect Dann [and dann the same to her] but they both mutually turned around on each other. Esooa also has Dann as a heaven contender. I think scum!Esooa hard bussing T3 and townblocing Dann is very plausible)

[Morning Tweet]

Esooa's main read is that T3 is scum no?

[Morning Tweet]

maybe hasnt been around today but that was her thing she was trying to get through starting D1 if i recall right

[Morning Tweet]

maybe hasnt been around today but that was her thing she was trying to get through starting D1 if i recall right

[Morning Tweet]

Cause im pretty sure at least 2 people havent said anything yet today

[Morning Tweet]

I could have sworn Esooa's main push D1 was T3!scum

Either way my scumteam guess is still where i had it

Farren
redtea
flow
-
Esooa
Dann
T3

?????

[Morning Tweet]

it's weird no one else has taken it upon themselves to hammer, or make an intention to vote.
i may as well ask, why you haven't hammered yet mt?

I was under the impression the game was always this slow

I dont think the hesistancy is AI to be honest

[Morning Tweet]

T3's that kinda slot who is probably assumed to die so making a counterwagon would be a bad move

If he's town idk maybe you could for WIFOM i dunno

Im mostly just taking it as that helling T3 was the consensus coming into today so nothing surprising has happened

[Morning Tweet]

I agree i think that makes the most sense

[Morning Tweet]

T3 claims he's self voting because "if Farren is town then I'm going to be judged and we'll lose" but by voting himself out first he does nothing to actually fix that problem so im mostly just left confused

In fact, ending this day shorter without him or Farren getting to make new content probably just exasperates the problem

So I dont think there's a single possible *good* reason for town!T3 to do this. Obviously playing the game would be way better than giving up, and I'm sure T3 knows that, so I suppose town!T3 might just not care.

It's fine enough play by scum!T3 though

[Morning Tweet]

What's got you confident in me being town, Farren? That's a question i'd extend to Esooa as well -- you both seem to have reacted to me pretty positively although we havent talked much about my slot since i joined and im curious

[Morning Tweet]

Flow I know you're busy whiteknighting T3 for some reason but who do you believe is actually scum then?

[Morning Tweet]

i dont think they're paired, flow is probably either TMIing scum or contrarian town imo

I would definitely lolhammer flow by the way;

I want to say T3 doesnt do this to a partner since he loses no matter what he does if someone votes scum!flow, whereas he wins no matter what if someone puts flow to E-1 (he can hammer, flow was a more scummy consensus player, or he can not hammer and it's whatever since flow is town). If that makes ANY sense

i also think this makes a bit less sense from a partner. If someone had put flow to X-1 i think that'd be an L for a flow/T3 scumteam either immediately or later

[Morning Tweet]

The scariest world is that in which flow is town who wants to be able to say "Haha see I knew T3 was town" and T3 is actually fucking town

I think it's most likely flow is town that just wants to hedge against consensus... probably.... and T3 is scum. I'd like to ask flow himself why he's spending time defending T3 and giving not much else in the way of reads today though

[Morning Tweet]

All right, let's say someone did put flow trap at E-1 back at 203, and the team is T3/flow trap /?.

If T3 doesn't hammer ... I could see it being bad for them. If the team is exactly T3/flow trap/Dannflor, Dannflor could unvote and wave it off as not wanting to see a lolhammer at that point. (Or, in theory, T3/flow trap/northsidegal - but that requires Morning Tweet to be scum, which no.)
Otherwise, avoiding the hammer would probably require a Convenient Disappearance, which would be suspicious. Or waiting for someone Town to get off the wagon for the totally genuine reason of not wanting to see a lolhammer at that point.
On the other hand, T3 hammering - okay, that flips a scum. It's bad for scum immediately, but it could pay off later in terms of towncred for the Heaven phases.

So no, I don't see that being an obstacle to T3/flow trap being partners.

T3 is the scum you want to bus

If a flow/T3 team hells flow and has T3 still alive, they're going to lose. They need T3 to get heavened or live a while avoid a judgement. They'd lose.

If Dann is scum, yes he could unvote. But I think the associations T3 has created for himself and Dann there would be catastrophic and probably game losing

I think T3 not hammering would be insanely suspicious and T3 hammering would be game losing. Maybe that team wouldn't agree, though. I find it less likely in any case

[Morning Tweet]

I just feel like flow would be bussing here if they were partners

but maybe that's faulty reasoning

Flow's been consistently townleaning T3 but when questioned he's like "Meh idrk why" for the most part. And now he's defending T3 for no reason basically

I agree i dont think that overall is SvS. Scum!Flow might theoretically do it to T3!town so he's clean of T3's blood when he's helled, or town!Flow might do it cause he has a random gut read or just wants to be right if we're wrong

[Morning Tweet]

Hmm, maybe. Still, I find it hard to believe that scum!T3 on post 200 would be okay with the possibility of having to carry his team when he has a history of being eliminated in every game he's ever played. Makes more sense that he'd say he'd lolhammer town since it progresses scum wincon along and keeps him set up nicely as the fall guy for his team who will presumably bus him later

[Morning Tweet]

What happened to the third?

[Morning Tweet]

I suppose I'd like to ask how you arrived at the conclusion that scum is in me/Farren/redtea whether that be from townreading elsewhere or something directly pinging you from any of those three

Amazingly, in my current solve, you've identified every single town player, plus you

[Morning Tweet]

IT'S ME >:3

I mean I thought I implied that the other one would probably be between Dan and Eso, but okay

I suppose I'd like to ask how you arrived at the conclusion that scum is in me/Farren/redtea whether that be from townreading elsewhere or something directly pinging you from any of those three

Amazingly, in my current solve, you've identified every single town player, plus you

I'm bad at figuring out what to do with reads, so I just figured that it was likely 2 of three scummiest players imo would be scum :neutral:

I mean no, usually the scummiest players are who I'd assume are scum unless there's a specific associative-type reason that prohibits some from being with each other

You havent said anything about Dann this game except an early game post of his you liked

I see one place where you said Esooa is townier for linking her meta... i think

You haven't said jack about me cause id remember that prolly. Well except you said my effort isn't AI, but that doesnt really say anything abt my alignment

You've mentioned scumreading redtea and you called them shading you once but you never actually explained it

You sheeped Ich on Farren and mentioned something about Ich's read on Farren being reliable cause it worked on you

And you have spent a lot of time townleaning and defending T3 (this is your most vocal read)

.....and I've summed up everything I know of your reads. So overall, no, I don't think it's obvious at all why your team is 2 of Morning/redtea/Farren + 1 of Esooa/Dann

Like i have no idea why

Basically all I know is that you think T3 is town

[Morning Tweet]

Also Farren is the most viable elim today besides T3 so I dont really see what flow is talking abt

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like making votes simply because someone is viable and you want to stay alive is typically less towny than making votes based on who you believe is scum

And when you back that up with how many of T3's votes have followed that pattern (D1 EoD onto Farren then Enchant) and how he pretends like it is related to his reads (today) and not survivability, it starts to get unbelievable

If T3 is town he's perfectly emulating the way scum plays which is basically just faking his reads in ways that keep him alive the longest possible. Like where can you see T3 actually solving anywhere in this game. idgi

[Morning Tweet]

lol this is wacky af im down

VOTE: Dann

[Morning Tweet]

Redtea do you think there's a possibility that T3/Flow are both town? If not, what does this plan do for you that we aren't already covering by Helling T3?

[Morning Tweet]

Redtea do you think there's a possibility that T3/Flow are both town? If not, what does this plan do for you that we aren't already covering by Helling T3?

Also did you choose Dann for any reasoning other than because he's active and Farren is an active town, btw

[Morning Tweet]

I see a very, very easy win for redtea!scum with town!Dann + town!Farren

[Morning Tweet]

Redtea do you think there's a possibility that T3/Flow are both town? If not, what does this plan do for you that we aren't already covering by Helling T3?

i highly doubt it.
I think- I think personally, a flip of someone like dann is more telling than a flip of jokesters like t3 and flow. That's one benefit of playing that way is that it cuts down on making any good associations, imo.
Also the venn diagram reason i gave.
Also also I wouldn't have bothered if it weren't taking so long to hammer t3, and i don't know what to make of it, but it's making me crazy.

Talk to me about how T3 not being hammered is bothering you. What's it making you feel with regards to his alignment and the gamestate? Why are you worried? For me I find it completely NAI.

[Morning Tweet]

Now the question is, does redtea!scum with T3/flow/Esooa as partners decide to make a crazy move to try and win the game right here right now by limming town!Dann and getting Ich to judge town!Farren

Was that necessary?

If the team is redtea/flow/T3 -- probably. If it's redtea/Esooa/T3, i dont think so.

This is so much more fun now

[Morning Tweet]

EXACTLY

t3 is dead in the water as either alignment

What do you expect SHOULD be happening instead ??

someone to quick hammer?

Yes, I have to agree with Dann on this one, it does not seem indicative of anything to me.

[Morning Tweet]

I think MT going along with redtea and voting me to see what happens but still questioning redtea is net town ++

just in case anyone needed more convincing on MT town

(that's mainly for you ich troje)

I wish I had the balls to feign complete agreement with redtea to try and bait people to join and see what happens

I don't though

In actuality, I'm still deciding so I guess that's the middle option

T3/redtea/flow making a last ditch play to try to win the game, or not..

[Morning Tweet]

REDTEA/FLOW/T3 im dying

look. look ich baby. if dann is town, flip t3. forget about farren. flip t3. im begging you. please.
there, happy???

okay look i've left a good pool of nonsense for yall to think over. Dann you keep asking questions ive basically already answered. Honestly my read on you is not that deep. Nothing personal, just business.
I'm coming back tomorrow.

Well theoretically if that is the team, then you coming out of nowhere doing this actually could save your team and win the game

I am presently finding your reasoning for the swap to Dann a little reachy, which is why I'm considering it. Hmmm

[Morning Tweet]

Really all I want to get is what makes you so uncomfortable about T3 at X-1 with the game mostly stagnating. Why does it bother you?

[Morning Tweet]

MT where are u at in reads

Scum is in T3/Dann/Esooa/flow, emphasis on T3 and less on flow

[Morning Tweet]

Okay yeah i think if red is scum then T3 is probably town, it seems more losing and also very pointless if T3 is a buddy. Dann and farren would be town obviously and I'm town

So it'd be red/Esooa/flow. If we vote out town!Dann right now then Ich probably judges Farren or T3 and red/Esooa/flow win

If we continue what we were doing and vote out town!T3 then Ich probably judges Farren or myself and red/Esooa/flow.... still win...?

In fact, redtea's chances of being judged probably go up after spearheading a town!Dann wagon. So what's the point of doing this for scum!redtea exactly? Open question

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Dannflor
This is a perspective slip.

elaborate

[Morning Tweet]

MT where are u at in reads

Scum is in T3/Dann/Esooa/flow, emphasis on T3 and less on flow

why not red

had same exact reads as red after i finished my rep-in, mindmelded with one post exactly too

Also all the scumread reasons so far presented against them that ive seen are not very inspired

[Morning Tweet]

MT what're your thoughts on flow

More likely to not be aligned with T3 IMO, i touched on that a couple times.

[Morning Tweet]

Esooa what makes you think I'm surely town?

[Morning Tweet]

MT if you're town I will urge you to look past strictly "mindmeld" as reasons to town read redtea

I have seen too many townies write off mafia as town because they happened to say similar things

lul don't you worry im not tunneled on it

I am fairly tunneled on seeing Farren as town at this point though I'm not so sure i see that changing

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Dannflor
This is a perspective slip.

elaborate

Nvm I misread the post.

So unvote?

[Morning Tweet]

Can't at least one person in this game distrust me

Wait, that might be flow actually. Hmph

I almost want to 180 on Dann and call the team T3/Flow/Esooa but I kinda felt like T3 and flow weren't together

I don't think redtea and T3 are together either

How many anti-associatives can i find

I dont think there is anything that precludes Esooa and T3 being a team and i still find that fairly reasonable

[Morning Tweet]

So when Dann had traction to get elimmed, you voted for him but when that went away it was actually just a misunderstanding so now you're voting redtea who you were just voting with onto Dann

T3 should I even ask why you're voting for redtea

[Morning Tweet]

I love this game

VOTE: T3

[Morning Tweet]

Overall I think that was a very protown move lul

Esooa what makes you think I'm surely town?

the way u post

o

[Morning Tweet]

im glad we did that

I'm probably +town on Dann and redtea

Which in turn makes me a bit more confident on T3/Esooa

[Morning Tweet]

Nicely done Ich! I'm really happy you made that choice

I was torn between sending flow or Esooa as my pick personally

[Morning Tweet]

This is getting pretty reminiscent of another purgatory...

Can scum dodge two more eliminations? It's not terribly likely.

[Morning Tweet]

I think flow's read of T3 reads as extremely poor in hindsight.

I wonder if redtea's outburst yesterday means it's redtea/flow/Esooa. Cause actually T3 getting eliminated -> scum being judged -> this gamestate is really bad. Whereas if Dann died, that would have been potentially winning if T3 or Farren got elimed

Actually flow and redtea both made little sense with T3, right? Stupid, stupid me for letting T3 blind my view of the gamestate.

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah that's probably my guess then. Farren, Dann, you both town?

[Morning Tweet]

Lol so you whiteknighted T3 because you thought I was scum

Also my point about T3 blindly voting Farren is that T3's reads shifted depending on what was most convenient for keeping himself alive. He did this all game where he claimed to townread or scumread whoever he needed to in order to try and not die. I'm not saying it's inherently scummy to vote for the most suspected player lul

[Morning Tweet]

redtea's outburst had the effect of getting the wagon off of T3 - which was a good thing, even if it didn't pan out. Why does that indicate redtea/flow trap/Esooa?

PEdit> to Morning Tweet.

Had town!Dann been eliminated, we would have gone to judgement phase and if Farren/T3 been judged we would have lost.

However since town!T3 was eliminated, we didn't have to deal with him during the judgement phase. It was better for town to kill T3 there. I'm also taking into account that redtea's reasoning for the push on Dann was fairly reachy.

[Morning Tweet]

Also flow where was the suspicion on me yesterday? If you thought the T3 push was scum-motivated... why not come out and say it?

All you did was say "Actually your reasons for scumreading T3 are bad" which A.) did nothing to change anything and B.) seems very hard for me to believe you came to the conclusion that T3 was your likeliest town, as town

T3 legitimately could not have played in a scummier manner

[Morning Tweet]

I see a part on day one where redtea hadn't entered the thread yet... and they would have been killed if not for an unvote by flow. What a coincidence (pages 19-23ish)

[Morning Tweet]

Monring, when did you start to SR me

As soon as T3 flipped town

On your own I read you as null since i don't really get your play, but associative-wise with T3 you look insanely poor

[Morning Tweet]

You had T3 as your strongest heavenable town but when pressed you said "Idk he seemed relaxed i forget"

[Morning Tweet]

It's not even so much that townreading T3 in of itself is a problem (although i find it questionable), it's just that you had absolutely zero backing to the read whatsoever yet you blindly defended him against all accusations, even reasonable ones.

That makes a lot more sense from whiteknighting scum than actually solving town, no?

You also didn't say jack about suspecting the push on him up til now which I find.. odd

[Morning Tweet]

Redtea would be dead rn if not for you because Ich thought they hammered when it was actually X-2. You left redtea's wagon before then. Not a super strong point but something i found funny

I scumread T3 and read you and T3 as not being together. I also kinda sheeped Ich on you being town at that point in my catchup. Do you not see why your interactions with town!T3 are abysmal?

[Morning Tweet]

Like i didnt know T3's alignment then but i know it now

You play like you knew he was town the whole way along

[Morning Tweet]

It's not even so much that townreading T3 in of itself is a problem (although i find it questionable), it's just that you had absolutely zero backing to the read whatsoever yet you blindly defended him against all accusations, even reasonable ones.

I defended them against one post iirc

If all the accusations were in one post, then they would still be here rn

Trying to justify anti-town behavior. (1152)

"Trying"

Made up reason#Made up read

i dunno, we got T3 voting Farren (most likely elimination that might work), giving reads, going back and saying he made up the reasoning rather than not just outright saying he doesnt have reasoning, and some "scum!me doesn't do X" type stuff

I have never seen T3 completely make up reads. Have reads without elaboration, sure, but does town!T3 feel the need to make shit up..? Surely town!T3 doesn't give any fucks right?

And again it's just convenient his scumread happens to be Farren who gamestate-wise *could* be elimed if enough ppl sheeped Ich.

T3's best arguments for being town are that he would've sent me to Heaven if scum (???) and that he's more involved with discussion as scum. Oh and that he's lazy as town but not as scum??

Not true. Town!me is usually passive and blurts things out meanwhile scum!me actively engages with discussions. Also, town!me often will skim over walls andnot respond to them.

Are you using ignoring redtea's posts as proof you're in your town meta?!?! So in other words, if you were scum, you would read their posts but since you're town you just skimmed and forgot about them?

Is that your argument for you being town?

Scum has more of an obligation due to their life being more important. I don't think T3 voting Farren is scummy either, I don't see the point of pushing someone who isn't viable, and it makes sense that

someone

would push the most viable one otherwise it wouldn't be the most viable. Tbh sometimes I make a read and forget why so I make up a reason that sounds like it could work only to remember later. I do agree that saying I don't do X as scum isn't a good argument though. Saying being bad at defending yourself could potentially fall under fallacy fallacy, so it would probably be better to focus on how they do what they do instead of what they do. The casual language and the short sentences are a good sign due to an unconscious bias when trying to appease someone to use "fancy text." They've already said they haven't made up reads, just "making up or greatly exaggerating reasons." To peruse this line of making up reads is likely misrepresenting what they meant.

could i ask why you like or liked T3 perhaps?

Yes, but I forgot :good:

I think they sounded relaxed which is towny

You wanted to heaven T3?

I appearently didn't say T3 was a TR or if I did I can't find it

I kind of implied it here

Spoiler:

I don't recall you saying you TR enchant, so is there another reason?

vote farren

im intending to switch to t3 regardless b4 deadline. I'm not letting a wagon farren wants get through

Ok, VOTE: Farren

Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

My charm obviously :D

Though, perhaps a sense of TvT banter

So you replied to a few posts, but sure I'll give you that you didn't defend against every. single. one.

And okay, so you're either town that decided T3 is town on like no basis to the point he was your strongest townread, or you're scum that already knew the answer. At the very least, you have to concede one of those things is a lot more intuitive.

[Morning Tweet]

D1 hell wagons at their heights (roughly):

Esooa: T3, NSG, Farren
redtea: Farren, Esooa, T3, Ich
Enchant: flow, Ich, T3, Dann, Farren
T3: Enchant, Esooa, Farren
Farren: Ich, flow, Enchant

[Morning Tweet]

Ok 1207 and 1154 are follow ups to 1152 and 1008 and 992 aren't defending them against a post just saying I TR them?

That's my point

those are all of your posts on T3

And he's your most heavenable town and your most vocal read on D2

Lol

[Morning Tweet]

:eek: I don't know what to do if someone uses 2

VOTE: Redtea

VOTE: red tea

VOTE: redtea

dannfloor/nsg

this pairing is interesting

ive been nursing a paranoia nsg read since basically her entrance but i think that paranoia was bound to come up at some point this game so im not really giving it any credence until nsg gets a chance to play more

what exactly pinged you about either of our posts?

I like this post

UNVOTE: Redtea

why the unvote here? ^^^ Redtea hadn't joined and you just expressed good feelings about Dann the most recent wagon joiner

Farren and T3 start a counterwagon on Esooa which you elect to not join as well, so again, why the unvote

NSG votes Esooa

You reiterate that you TR Dann and then vote Ich (?)

Ich and Dann start a wagon on NSG

Hell VC1.08

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to send someone to Hell

Esooa (3):

T3, northsidegal, Farren

northsidegal (2):

Ich Troje, Dannflor

redtea (1):

Esooa

Farren (1):

redtea

T3 (1):

Enchant

Ich Troje (1):

flow trap

Not Voting:

[/b]

UNVOTE: Esooa
VOTE: redtea

And yes, I am aware that I am jumping from the person I was voting for to the person that she's currently voting for.

VOTE: redtea I dunno where this guy is and I want him back lol

VOTE: redteah

i tried to meta redtea and their towngame has a depth that is not present here but also they've had town games where they literally just half flake and its -_- how do I read this shit.


VOTE: redtea fuck it.

WIM is at an all time low and we need a flip to kickstart this shit b4 apathy sets in

praying for a scum flip

sorry for sending u to hell redtea

^^ Ich thinks this is a hammer genuinely but it isn't. But redtea quite possibly coulda died had you not left the wagon for seemingly no reason earlier. You didnt express a scumread on Ich either, if i recall right you had JUST said

I might be misremembering this but the last game I played with scum!Koba they had lower post density.

I'm waiting to read DK tbh

[Morning Tweet]

I see a part on day one where redtea

hadn't entered the thread yet...

and they would have been killed if not for an unvote by flow. What a coincidence

(pages 19-23ish)

I bolded the explanations, you're grasping :igmeou:

You thought redtea worthy of a vote.... Esooa + Dannflor join... and you unvote at X-2 because redtea didn't join the game yet.

Why did you vote him in the first place if you had no interest in voting him to pressure for content or whatnot? Like what was your original intention behind it if you're just going to unvote in response to nothing happening

[Morning Tweet]

You didnt express a scumread on Ich either, if i recall right you had JUST said

I'm confused on the relevance of this statement

Cause I voted them? So? that doesn't mean I SR them; I've already stated I don't like not voting and also

Yeah, I noticed you didn't have your full town edge, which is why I voted you

Okay so if you're not voting your scumreads, then you like moving your vote around to pressure and be active yes? So why would you take your vote off of a slot at X-2 in response to nothing happening at all? Nothing happened with redtea nor Ich and you liked the player who joined the wagon

Help me understand flow!!!!!

[Morning Tweet]

Even if your votes don't follow much logic, as you claim, I'm still going to go ahead and say they were pretty convenient for Esooa and redtea, and I can just leave it at that then. You voteparked Ich when the heat got onto redtea and you didnt join the growing Esooa wagon when the heat was on her (just kept the votepark). So it's lucky for those two

pedit: Ah I see. That makes a little more sense. Point still stands that your push on Ich is convenient to redtea/esooa though

[Morning Tweet]

For a change of pace I think Dann's end of the last day was towny, as well as his individual reads he made on Esooa and T3 and redtea (and me). All seemed natural and uninformed

[Morning Tweet]

Perhaps you'd like to chat about who my partner is/isn't, flow

[Morning Tweet]

Well not so much who my partners are associative-wise, necessarily, I just mean who you think is scum besides me. Maybe we can agree x3

[Morning Tweet]

If I recall correctly, DK had Esooa as a "maybe scum".

Redtea/me/Dann? all read Farren as town so it's possible we helped convince DK

Additionally DK's reads were changing a little bit as they left, they seemed to scumreaad me at first but then they offered to let me go to heaven b4 them

I also think Esooa looked worse after T3's flip since basically her only hard stance all game was that T3 was definitely scum

[Morning Tweet]

Redtea had flow as their strongest scumread D1 in 732, but there was no heat on flow by that point and as we all know redtea didn't actually vote D1 anyway. It was clear someone else would die.. Maybe setting up to bus flow down the line though. There's also not really anything in the way of hinting that flow would be their strongest scumread up until this post.

Granted redtea ends up reversing and deciding that flow is low effort town whereas T3 is low effort scum in the next phase

What's starting to bother me about redtea in hindsight is how they were consistently strategizing a hell other than T3. Not just the Dannflor push -- they also suggested helling Farren so Ich would be prevented from judging him, a few times IIRC. It would have been a win if T3 got judged afterwards! I just can't follow redtea's logic for helling Dannflor or getting scared of the nonvoting, it didn't make much sense to me.

I feel almost certain Dann is town now mmmm. Is there any chance Farren is scum and it's redtea/Farren (which I would have found extremely odd yesterday, i prolly still would)

[Morning Tweet]

oh my god finally
VOTE: t3

Oh by the way what did you mean by "finally" here, redtea? Since i mean, we were just restoring the T3 elim that was already going to go through and had only been delayed because of the counterwagon of ur own making

[Morning Tweet]

I *feel* like maybe redtea did that whole random push on me to 1. get the game out of the rut it was in, and 2. possibly as a reaction test for people, notably to see how T3 might react?

I felt more confident on T3 after his reaction to my wagon so redtea might have felt the same?

I'll wait until he gets back to conjecture on that anymore. but I've been rereading EoD yesterday and thinking through more calmly now I think there aren't *that* many worlds where that move makes sense as scum? Like t3/flowtrap/redtea made a little sense but now... esooa/flowtrap/redtea? eh? I feel like it still wasn't a very 'necessary' move

it felt agenda-y to me at the time but now I'm thinking its just one of those cases where its actually a town agenda

That's kinda what I was thinking yesterday but that was back when i thought T3 was scum

I feel like eliminating someone who was highly unlikely to be judged (you) and keeping someone who is (T3) in the judgement phase is very good for scum. Whereas the situation we're in right now due to Helling T3 is very bad for scum.

As much as I thought i agreed w/ you, it's like... why was redtea trying to hell Farren as well? Like they were consistently trying to get options other than T3 in and from town!redtea's perspective who thinks there is certain scum in T3/flow, I'm not sure i get the point

[Morning Tweet]

If I recall correctly, DK had Esooa as a "maybe scum".

Redtea/me/Dann? all read Farren as town so it's possible we helped convince DK

Additionally DK's reads were changing a little bit as they left, they seemed to scumreaad me at first but then they offered to let me go to heaven b4 them

I also think Esooa looked worse after T3's flip since basically her only hard stance all game was that T3 was definitely scum

>w< Why does everyone I suspect become more towny once I voice my thoughts on them

im not sure i even understand what i was doing that was suspicious in the first place

Let me know if you reach any conclusion about how is scum this phase, btw, im still really not sure how to read you

[Morning Tweet]

was redtea really trying to hell Farren?

I thought redtea was pretty convinced Farren was town yesterday

i recall redtea suggesting we hell Farren so Ich wouldn't be able to judge him

[Morning Tweet]

I guess I could actually see a redtea/farren team in that case

I don't think MT/redtea makes much sense

me/redtea makes no sense but I won't be the one to argue that case

are there anti-associatives or associatives between redtea/farren or redtea/flowtrap?

Redtea and Farren would be super buddy-buddy but i havent gone back to see how likely it is

I guess i was fairly impressed by Farren's end of d1 if it's fake and Ich's arguments against Farren weren't so convincing

Redtea and flow i dont remember seeing too much except that flow unvoted when he thought redtea was at X-1 which ultimately may have saved redtea down the line. Redtea also had flow as scum but they didnt get around to sharing that read until end of day when it didnt matter. Then they reversed flow to low effort town with T3 as low effort scum on the next day

[Morning Tweet]

You had T3 as your strongest heavenable town but when pressed you said "Idk he seemed relaxed i forget"

And you said "lm*o yall are killing me this game" instead of pushing my response then

okay but like im pretty sure you were asked several times by different people over the course of this game. And how is this a town mindset. T3 was on the chopping block and you were like "i mean he's chill, you know?" up until the end.

bahahahaha

I keep going through it over and over and I'm just unsure how Dann/Farren could be scum (or both be scum, at the very least)

I'm a little bothered by how it seems like no one really seems to townread flow anymore. I suppose it'd be a huge red flag if you're flow's partner though

[Morning Tweet]

flow wasn't always consensus null/scum, right? Some ppl townleaned them thruout the game yeah?

Specifically i know redtea had flow as scum on the first day but swapped to low effort town later. I know Ich felt flow was heavy town, and i recall someone mentioning most ppl had flow as null/town.

[Morning Tweet]

I don't really know the specifics of this teams inner workings but i have big enough townreads on Dann/Farren and i dont necessarily see anything prohibiting flow/redtea so im comfortable enough with

VOTE: redtea

[Morning Tweet]

if i recall correctly both red and flow have suspected each other to some extent but it's never been to a point where im convinced one is actively trying to kill the other.

i think redtea and Dann is a *little* unlikely given yesterday, impressive theatre if so though

When the Esooa wagon was a thing D1 the only one who helped that was Farren (although he switched to redtea after enough time) .... probably makes redtea/Farren a bit less likely. Also Esooa was bussing redtea in this case, so if Farren is scum with red then both partners voted and stayed. If red is scum with flow, flow actually unvoted to save red

[Morning Tweet]

Hia Dann

I'm guessing Esooa was meant to live on since i think like... at least a majority of the ppl still here expressed townleans on her at some point. If flow/red are the team, it makes sense to *sort of* distance and they would have been doing but again in comparison to actual wagons this game im just not quite buying their hearts were ever in it to kill eachother. Felt like they were always mentioning it in hindsight, like how red said flow was their preferred D1 hell (and I recall flow suspecting red at some point)

And... still thinking over it now.. I'm really struggling to figure out what was weirding out town!redtea EoD yesterday. It just doesn't seem like a real suspicion anymore

[Morning Tweet]

Hia Dann

I'm guessing Esooa was meant to live on since i think like... at least a majority of the ppl still here expressed townleans on her at some point. If flow/red are the team, it makes sense to *sort of* distance and they would have been doing but again in comparison to actual wagons this game im just not quite buying their hearts were ever in it to kill eachother. Felt like they were always mentioning it in hindsight, like how red said flow was their preferred D1 hell (and I recall flow suspecting red at some point)

And... still thinking over it now.. I'm really struggling to figure out what was weirding out town!redtea EoD yesterday. It just doesn't seem like a real suspicion anymore

Especially considering I had a persistent scumread on you so redtea could probably count on both my vote, T3's vote, and flow's vote. i think that wagon conceivably goes thru

[Morning Tweet]

Hmmm, suppose it's possible that redtea tries to keep T3 alive and kill you in order for Ich to maybe choose T3 > Farren.

pedit: Ha fair enough. I'm not entirely convinced, I got the feeling redtea was fine ending the day on you. maybe im wrong though. Were they playing it off as town or scum, that's the question

Reason I'm seeing everything in a scummy light is I kind of feel like you and Farren are town i suppose

[Morning Tweet]

could have shaken it up on flow or Esooa but they chose you instead tho

Like on me or Farren wouldnt have made sense but any of those three couldve worked and they chose town

[Morning Tweet]

I cannot read that second wall by flow is that actually how he formatted it oh my god

From what I can tell it looks like he's just summarizing in the second post though, or not explaining as much

I'm mainly voting redtea over flow because mayyyyyyybe I'm wrong on Farren and flow's town. Like there's not a lot there, but maybe idk

[Morning Tweet]

If Farren is scum then Esooa and Farren both insta townreading me and trying to put me into heaven is weird lol

Especially considering Esooa was in my scumpile. Although granted Dann/T3 were my other two and we see how that turned out. So... maybe i guess. It'd still surprise me that they take the EXACT same strategy towards my slot

[Morning Tweet]

Flow is hard to do associatives for lol

[Morning Tweet]

I'm at the point where im giving up on that stuff and am just putting faith in what i feel is town in the moment WHICH... works... sometimes

[Morning Tweet]

good night!

VOTE: flow

[Morning Tweet]

From my point of view rn I think if flow were to flip town then the person who hammers is scum no matter what

[Morning Tweet]

hence, why im not worried

[Morning Tweet]

From my point of view rn I think if flow were to flip town then the person who hammers is scum no matter what

True, it is unlikely that I will be killed by DK, so Scum wants to get rid of me now

this isnt my impression at all

[Morning Tweet]

im not sure i even understand what i was doing that was suspicious in the first place

Morning, this gives me bad vibes, I'm too doubtful for this game :igmeou:

y

[Morning Tweet]

could have shaken it up on flow or Esooa but they chose you instead tho

Like on me or Farren wouldnt have made sense but any of those three couldve worked and they chose town

Can you explain the second half?

Okay so town!redtea wants to shake up the game. Scum!redtea wants to win.

They could have counterwagoned Dann, Esooa, or flow. Farren and Morning they TRed so wouldnt make sense. Out of Dann/Esooa/flow, they picked town that I (town) was mistakenly scumreading at the time. Coincidence or intentional? Cause had they picked Esooa or I'm thinking you, they would have had scum but they didnt

[Morning Tweet]

im not sure i even understand what i was doing that was suspicious in the first place

Morning, this gives me bad vibes, I'm too doubtful for this game :igmeou:

y

Did you just ask me why I got vibes from something? :shifty:

yes?

u also mentioned a post of mine earlier being towny and this one is scummy and i have exactly zero idea why

you must realize that in order for this to work you've got to give some me some kind of insight into your mind

[Morning Tweet]

They could have counterwagoned Dann, Esooa, or flow. Farren and Morning they TRed so wouldnt make sense. Out of Dann/Esooa/flow, they picked town that I (town) was mistakenly scumreading at the time. Coincidence or intentional? Cause had they picked Esooa or I'm thinking you, they would have had scum but they didnt

Who is the pick that you are referring to?

When redtea started the counterwagon on Dann in the last phase. It could have been flow, Esooa, or Dann and they chose Dann. My suspicion is that it's because i was likely to join and then there'd be enough votes, then judgement has town!T3 and town!Farren still alive, GG

[Morning Tweet]

Obviously we've gone over this but redtea's reasoning for voting Dann and being suspicious of the gamestate was forced... the question is just whether or not town!redtea was forcing it for info or scum!redtea was trying to win. I have suspicions that the pick on Dann was intentionally done since i think scum!redtea stood a decent chance of winning had the wagon gone thru

[Morning Tweet]

Flow who do you want to hell besides me right now

[Morning Tweet]

Gut

[Morning Tweet]

Kidding. I think his response to redtea yesterday was very towny. The way he jumps from solve to solve and paranoia to paranoia feels very natural, unlike redtea yesterday. I think his read on Esooa in particular is anti partnery

if I die here

don't touch esooa

I'm pretty sure farren is town but less confident

I am so embarrassed right now

Be back tonight

pedit: Since when is having a townread a scumslip?

[Morning Tweet]

Also fun fact, never been accused of a scumslip as scum, but I'm about 1/2 as town. So you've added to that statistic nicely

Also also, you're going to need to do better than scumreading me for viewing the gamestate through the lense of another player being town and calling it a "scumslip"

[Morning Tweet]

I'm like 85% Dann is town

70% Farren

30% you

20% red

... probably. That way of measuring doesnt even really make sense but you get the idea

[Morning Tweet]

If I'm correct that Dann is town then redtea's behaviour yesterday is indicative of scum trying to win via a T3/Farren hell, no? It's just an interesting that I scumread Dann yesterday and redtea tried to kill him off then, but now im realizing Dann is likely town and i see it completely differently

pedit: I KNOW IT MADE NO SENSE OK

[Morning Tweet]

Also fun fact, never been accused of a scumslip as scum, but I'm about 1/2 as town. So you've added to that statistic nicely

Also also, you're going to need to do better than scumreading me for viewing the gamestate through the lense of another player being town and calling it a "scumslip"

What about the second time then?

Huh

[Morning Tweet]

I'm like a little surprised no one has jumped on and accused me and MT of being partners yet

My wrath will immediately pour down on the first person to do that

Remember that early game tinfoil by Ich that we were both partners doing a bit to redtea about the notes PT thing? I haven't forgotten how weird that'd be as partner behaviour

[Morning Tweet]

Also fun fact, never been accused of a scumslip as scum, but I'm about 1/2 as town. So you've added to that statistic nicely

Also also, you're going to need to do better than scumreading me for viewing the gamestate through the lense of another player being town and calling it a "scumslip"

What about the second time then?

Huh

You called them town twice?

I'm lost as to what you're talking abt

[Morning Tweet]

Also that whole analysis of NSG's play would be pretty impressive partner behaviour

Skimming NSG's iso in general it seems unlikely. Maybe i shouldnt have pointed it out and let someone accuse us first but whatever

[Morning Tweet]

could have shaken it up on flow or Esooa but they chose you instead tho

Like on me or Farren wouldnt have made sense but any of those three couldve worked

and they chose town

Can you explain the second half?

this? I broke the quote but you get the point

I'm saying that redtea COULD have voted Esooa or you, but they chose Dann who is town that i was scumreading at the time. Coincidence or not?

I'm completely missing the point that ur making rn though

[Morning Tweet]

Okay, and what's the conclusion you draw from that

[Morning Tweet]

No i just think it's a poor read

Tbh your posts do kind of psyche me out into thinking it's maybe redtea/Farren sometimes. Even though their interactions would be pretty brazen.

Altho..l if you're determining your read of red being town since you're convinced I'm scum.... why aren't you voting me?

[Morning Tweet]

Maybe Dann had a point earlier that (aside from when redtea defended Farren from Ich), there isn't too much to deter Farren/redtea from being partners

Even though i individually townlean Farren

I dunno. If you think red and I are disaligned, would you vote red w/ me?

[Morning Tweet]

It's a little weird not exactly knowing what Farren and redtea's stances on who is scum today are

Lemme map this out

redtea -> flow/Dann ?
Dann -> flow/Farren/redtea ?
Farren -> ????
flow -> Morning/Farren ?
Morning -> flow/redrea

something like that.. Farren is sort of considering everything it seems like

[Morning Tweet]

Flow who do you want to hell besides me right now

So I'd go Farren since I somewhat doubt you and Red are partners

The only thing u say about red is that they're not aligned with me so by PoE it's Farren

[Morning Tweet]

Well I wouldn't help you vote Farren but i would vote red contingent on me being judged if wrong

Also if you're gonna go the path of reading ppl based on their partnership status with me.. you'd just want to vote me, no?

[Morning Tweet]

Also if you're gonna go the path of reading ppl based on their partnership status with me.. you'd just want to vote me, no?

No? I think you're null/town atm

what

dann said it for me

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: redtea

[Morning Tweet]

Okay so if you're nulltown on me then why Farren > redtea

[Morning Tweet]

Oh I see what you're saying now

[Morning Tweet]

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh yes but it will take a while to hunt them down

I think an easier thing to prove is that I have never been accused of scumslipping as scum. The reason for this is because my posts are very deliberate as scum and im rlly stressed about it, whereas im extremely off the cuff and stream of consciousness as town

My scum games:
Zoey's -- this is a rep-in game and the best example to compare with this game
Silent Star Royalty -- this is a little borked after D1 since i had to play scummy on purpose but still no scumslip accusations
Impeachment -- This game sucked but still townread and not accused of scumslipping
2132 -- First scum game coming back to the site, exceptionally nervous and deliberate.

It would be helpful if someone who has played with me a lot were in this game cause it's an easy thing to confirm that i get accused of scumslipping all the flippin time cause i dont know what's good for me

Well actually

I get positive feedback when i scumslip typically cause a lot of the ppl familiar with me know if im saying stuff that I would have deleted as scum, then its a pretty good town indicator

Also me being certain on a townread here is probably lightly town indicative maybe since scum!me needs to keep a lot of options open considering ive got a partner and 2 town need to die

[Morning Tweet]

I did not consider catboi flipping scum, in my mind it's like 30% odds i guess

that would make it a lot more believable that skitts/glory/xtoxm/fire have potential to be all town -- then it just takes one wrong townread of mine in the bottom group

see, it's rough that you say this because it looks so scummy, but scum doesn't say this kinda stuff, but they kinda do. idk

Lunar/MT both being town is something Hectic would definitely be taking advantage of too, so hmm

I think tomorrow's gonna be a good day

lmfao i realized later i was taking catboi as town for granted and immediately knew ppl were gonna have a field day with that at some point

Scum in general can say shit like that yeah, but for me as scum i actually go over my posts to ensure nothing can be taken as a scumslip or whatever -- and as town, well, you see what happens

Are you baiting me into scumslipping something like "I'm scum, just not with Para"?

pedit: I KNEW IT

So your saying that you were aware and have infact avoided slipping that your not partnered with para.

I love you tweetie and if you're scum you deserved the win and if you're town then I'm just sorry

How can we be aligned? The world is upside-down if we are. i really don't want it to be true

i love u too fyi

if you really love me after i die you will shoot lav and make datisi suffer <3

I would do it if I were scum. i hope they will too. i dont wanna lose Tanner !

scum slip. she says pooky is scum and now that its about to go thru she says she hopes "they" kill Law tonight. If scum!Pooky dies, there would be no tomorrow.
Bye scum.
HURT: Morning

Funnily enough, you have half-towntold in this game, but I'm not sure whether I should count those as proper "towntells".

Depends if i half town-tell as scum then I suppose

If you're town i guess that means i am evolving (>ω<)

is this a scumslip

Hmm this scumslip is pretty town-indicative actually

i legitimately searched "scumslip" in a bunch of my town games and I'm right at the top so much LMFAO

[Morning Tweet]

oh from top to bottom, FL v. Hectic, Normal Mafia, Chara's Folly, Forest Fire

So yeah I'm quite familiar with ppl attempting "Gotcha" scumslips on me and it's always been when im town. Interestingly, the accuser in all of those examples were also town though

Tea leaves is an alt of a player exceptionally familiar with me BTW

[Morning Tweet]

Subject: Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

Reason being scum!Morning takes great care in what she writes. I think scum!her sees how that can be interpreted as a scumslip (I am evolving if you are town because I am scum this game and half town-slipped) while town!her writes whatever.

[Morning Tweet]

The emoticons fluctuate with my mood

But less filler and more content, I mean that's always a good thing. I post a lot slower as scum and typically in giant chunks rather than spread out. Scum is taxxing on me.

do you think she's lying?

I feel like a need a better connection to properly read them ._.

interestingly thats how i feel abt you never having played w u before

[Morning Tweet]

The emoticons fluctuate with my mood

But in scum game, you used them at least 10% of the time and I can only find 1 or 2 here iirc

ye i haven't been in as much of an emoticon mood lately (〃ω〃)

I may have emoticon-indicative tells but they're certainly more complicated than just frequency

[Morning Tweet]

Your methods of reading me are so mysterious i want to vote red over u

[Morning Tweet]

I'm townier as a replacement because i'm much more comfortable when there's already content to work with that i wasn't an active part of

[Morning Tweet]

Why're you good with red now?

[Morning Tweet]

Works for me

[Morning Tweet]

Scum instantly win the game if a judgement day is failed

[Morning Tweet]

So you weren't faking that paranoia abt T3 being hammered then?

[Morning Tweet]

ya i remember that and it also didnt make sense back then

[Morning Tweet]

flow who u hellin

[Morning Tweet]

Does that contradict your view of redtea exaggerating paranoia in order to get something going Dann? Cause I still find it sort of hard to believe i suppose

TMIing is when you give away that you're informed sorta... for example, I think it's possible flow TMIed T3!town, since no uninformed person would defend T3 so heavily yesterday. That's what I'm thinking, anyway

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

meeeeehhhhhhhhhh

[Morning Tweet]

I don't really get how I can still technically see each player as being town when two are scum

My strongest arguments for each are...

Farren's end of day one -> beginning of day two interactions with T3 and Ich.

Dannflor's recent interactions with me and redtea as well as his read on Esooa

redtea's......... baseline towniness i suppose. I agreed with them on stuff repping in

flowtraps........ uhhhhhhhhhh, lostness?

Feels like I'm a bit more established on Farren/Dann o.o

I still don't really know the mechanics behind redtea/flow as a possible team and i dont know if i exactly have the energy to do so