mini normal 2226; who won

[MathBlade]

Math, do you think Datisi is scum?

Only if you are.

If you’re town then *shrug* we win and whatever.

So when I flip town, what are your thoughts on:

loyal jailkeeper + informed gunsmith + 2-shot rolecop + n1 firing traffic analyst + even-night traffic analyst?

Even night TA and N1 firing TA cancel each other out as the inevitable TvT fight negates their power without scum having to do anything.

[MathBlade]

also, i'm thinking of me/omega universe, and like. we both decide to soft a guilty on out third buddy, then we both turbobus him, then we both claim pr, because...???

Because then you’ve never had to hunt, get rid of a dead weight scum, ride the fake townfirms to elo.
Literally just did that as scum myself minus the guilty all the bus.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87211

I mean this is a me+Not Mafia game right here.

Night and day should be visible here

[MathBlade]

If you assume I am scum then assume your crumbs are cracked.

wrong

and skimming through my iso, i can't find any other time i capitalized a word for emphasis, which is annoying. are you gonna trust that i'm not stupid enough to lie about a very easily checkable fact about my forum posts, or do i have to go hunting around in my isos of completed games?

That’s a generality not a specific here.

It’s more if you’re assuming I am scum (incorrectly), then I am good at finding PRs. Very good.

[MathBlade]

Only reason we lost that is screwed on normal rules twice:

Once with draw rules
And
Once with day three IC which is not normal.

So *shrug*

[MathBlade]

Math, does town still "autowin" if we lim someone in the PoE pool today and lim me tomorrow if they flip town? If so, flip Luke today, if he flips town I'll self-vote tomorrow.

The reason we auto win is we trade a maybe for either a scum or two conf towns.

I also don’t like bartering with scum but if Titus agrees I will.

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

Sorry meant to PM that to myself and whoops mobile

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.

I would rather elim my top suspect and if I am wrong get two townfirms sorry.

[MathBlade]

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do

Or you know if Chaos flips town we realize it for what it is then elim in the PoE.

Even if you imho incorrectly assume Not Mafia is scum then there is still a scum in the PoE unless you’re assuming two scum in the PRs.

[MathBlade]

i know, i was just stating my opinion, in case i get murdered tonight.

@math, on chaos townflip, n_m is still within the poe. and i'm really really not buying "a clusterfuck of prs meant to kill each other."

Too bad I do. So not mafia is not in the PoE to me.

If you convince a lot of other people to miselim Not Mafia and you’re town then you die then the prophecy I gave earlier is fulfilled. I want to prevent that and hunt where we know scum have to be if Chaos is town.

[MathBlade]

math, i'm sorry but i really really think you should not be the dictator who gets to decide what is supposed to be balanced and what isn't. i'm not saying your calculations are *wrong*, i'm saying they're detached from how mastina functions as a game designer and reviewer - clearest evidence of this can be seen in the post game of garfield mini normal. and this game is being played under her rules, not yours.

I don’t think you follow me

I am saying that I am assuming Chaos is scum here.
If he isn’t I don’t care because we win no matter what in that world.

I always play to win.
I agree this is played under her rule set right now.

So if it is an unbalanced game I still play to win and that means elimming Chaos.

[MathBlade]

You’re literally not getting me to vote elsewhere when Chaos flip is either scum or makes the game autowin/very likely win. You’re just not.

If you go elsewhere that’s you but one maybe for a scum or two townfirms is a hell of a good trade

[MathBlade]

i am saying that assuming chaos is town, not_mafia has to die. you're giving me some convoluted explanation why that's not the case because ~game balance~. i'm rejecting that.

i have zero faith he flips red. if he does, i'll look like a moron, i'll probably pop a few blood vessels trying to defend myself tomorrow and trying to remind everyone that titus has a clear on me, etc. we'll talk about that when we get there - i'm discussing a greenomega world.

If you have zero faith not mafia flips red I have nothing to convince you of?

[MathBlade]

Then we are back here where I don’t see a scum!NM world where he revises his claim so I don’t elim NM.

I go after the PoE like Datisi should be doing even if he believes IMhO incorrectly that NM is scum. He has to be scum with someone

[MathBlade]

Yes and I go after you because I want to lose because I don’t win in that world as previously explained. /s obviously

[MathBlade]

Because in the final three my solve would have to be NM+Ari. Two players who I have staunchly defended all game. In that world I likely get elimmed first then we lose as I flip town and some deep wolf takes it.

[MathBlade]

Every option is tinfoil

For Not Mafia to be scum I have to believe he claims VT then changes it. I don’t see scum doing that.

Scum have to be somewhere and so elimming Chaos is the best path to victory.

[MathBlade]

Because I know who Ari is without a shadow of a doubt even Ari+Luke is tinfoil

So I know the answer is moonlogic somewhere I am doing the one that sets me up for victory no matter what.

[MathBlade]

regardless if you wanna prove you're town you have to first acknowledge there is no reason to go after chaos here because of the incredulity it would take to reasonably call them scum.
You pushed on alch last day phase too.

If anyone but you were scum here - titus would be dead. Simple as that.

If I was scum Titus would be dead simple as that.

[MathBlade]

Like the trio of Titus/Gamma/Datisi is very very OP if all town. There’s no way I don’t shoot Titus last night. None

[MathBlade]

So like I am not scum

[MathBlade]

dont care ur dayplay is scummy

My day play is never scummy when I am scum though.

[MathBlade]

you better not be
because if you are you manipulated the fuck out of me this game in a way that goes beyond gameplay and into personal territory by assailing my emotions and then using chaos to "lock" yourself as town so you could talk down to me like you've been doing.
Do you think ND39 would be okay with you treating her like you've treated me this game?

Let’s not go here.

[MathBlade]

What am I reading?

Not mafia posting trying things! I like it! Do it more!

Yay.

(Sarcasm ahead)
Titus is clearly scum with tris!
I am lock town because I like math.

Game solved y’all go home now.

How’s my troll?

[MathBlade]

Math is just posting the ramblings of a madman, looks like something someone would write on the walls of a dungeon in their own blood

Favorite line of the game

Mine too

[MathBlade]

Aww no one likes my troll Sadge

[MathBlade]

Yes because no one would believe Titus is scum with tris.

Tris is the mod lol

[MathBlade]

I think that my elim priority atm is : Chaos>Math>Not_Mafia

Interesting. Do you think I am bussing Chaos?

[MathBlade]

But please? I love triangles



I found a cat with triangle eyes.

[MathBlade]

i think im just gonnna go back to no efforting - easier that way.

No efforting sounds fun. Teach me your ways.

[MathBlade]

Sleepy math gonna go to bed now. (I wish I looked this good)

[MathBlade]

Lgbt party thread!! Trans dude here

[MathBlade]

We should be elimming Chaos but I am done with efforting as I have work. Who’s with me? Let’s have an elim Chaos party

[MathBlade]

Problem is in your tinfoil suggestion I just bus NM for credit there.

[MathBlade]

Also if there is a neighborizer traitor, both groupscum would need to be neighbors, which makes the role cop pretty much a cop at that point.

So if you agree all the roles are town then there’s two full alignment cops both firing N1 which is a no no

[MathBlade]

Join me on Chaos. You’re literally there already. You made the argument yourself. Not Mafia is a scum grab

[MathBlade]

Simple answer setup is borked no matter how you slice it. Elim Chaos for the “not auto win” autowin or we get a scum. Yawn.

(Can’t do gif at work)

[MathBlade]

We have 9 days. Why the rush?

(Joker gif here)

[MathBlade]

But the cohesion you have is with scum. Literally everyone agrees the PR claims don’t work and yet you’re agreeing with the PR claims. Is cohesion a good thing with scum?

[MathBlade]

gamma's role is the most out of place out of all claims

*waves at second traffic analyst and a gunsmith who can apparently get a guilty only on one player*

Gunsmith if town only one.
TAs are full alignment cops in the proposed setup.
So three alignment cops (Gamma,Datisi,NM) versus no defense?

Yeah that passes review c’mon yall think please

[MathBlade]

I feel like if we’re looking at this from a “what would be the least overpowered” my role makes a lot of sense given how gated I am

Except you’re not really gated at all.
With the mainly proposed setup and all PRs town

You’re two shot alignment cop
With the proposed setup TAs are full alignment cops
Gunsmith of questionable alignment ignored for now
Also ignoring jailkeeper for now


Assume Umlaut for case and point is not checked

You have 2-4 players with mod confirmed alignments by D2
Rolecop, person checked by RC, TA, person checked by TA.

Then D3 you have 3-8 players with mod confirmed alignments
RC, person RC1, person RC2, TA1, person TA1, person TA2, TA2, TA2-1

Assume some overlap you’re looking at 5 people with mod confirmed alignments by D3

[MathBlade]

Traditional burn rate is 13,11,9

So assuming scum play perfectly miselim a Townie D1 and D2 you’re looking at 5 confirmed town with this setup with 9 alive 3 scum alive scum lose

[MathBlade]

That's just not how the game works?

PR claims get disbelieved all the time,
scum can fake PR claims.
PRs can get shot without giving results.

I just feel you are making some very strange assumptions about how the game plays out?

1) PR claims get disbelieved >> They get elimmed and proven true and this confirmed
2) They can fake them yes but that’s my literal point some have to be fake claiming
3) Yes they can but scum have no way of finding them. It’s relying on RNG to not be conf town loss by D3.

[MathBlade]

That's just not how the game works?

PR claims get disbelieved all the time,
scum can fake PR claims.
PRs can get shot without giving results.

I just feel you are making some very strange assumptions about how the game plays out?

Name a weird assumption I will prove it wrong after work

[MathBlade]

Math, do you find me suspicious?

Less suspicious than the other claims. Enough to where you’re town probably by PoE

[MathBlade]

That's just not how the game works?

PR claims get disbelieved all the time

,
scum can fake PR claims.

PRs can get shot without giving results.

I just feel you are making some very strange assumptions about how the game plays out?

these are 2 major points math tries to wave off everytime they're addressed and why he is fairly obviously scum pushing an agenda to mislim PRs here.

First one is irrelevant.
PR claim once elimmed is proven true if town.

Latter has no way of happening without giving scum an invest and N1 provides 0-2 additional mod confirmed players (ignoring JK and gunsmith a moment).

5 conf town/scum is insurmountable in a 13P game for scum

[MathBlade]

Fundamentally irrelevant.

In the mafia doctor, neighbor, neighbor traitor setup even if you get a fake clear on the traitor of neighbor ever dies
Doctor can’t end game unless you’re also scum which you’re not in that setup.

So yes scum lose every time

[MathBlade]

you were literally in a game with majority PRs but ok math

also you actually solved that game from your POV too - I spectated.

you have no fire this game. this is just deflection deflection deflection.

and the beautiful thing is you can't push on me without pushing on one of the people checking me because im clear if they are both town

Majority PRs != majority alignment cops

[MathBlade]

Math, can you give two reads lists?

One assuming false PR possibilites and another supposing they're all true?

The list assuming all PRs are true is literally Ari+Luke. Everyone else is a PR or confirmed.

Fake I already said flip Chaos and if town I don’t care game is on lock.

[MathBlade]

If Chaos is town then only one scum has a gun which means max one scum in you and Gamma.
So you or Gamma have to be scum for power balance.

I would start there and find which.

[MathBlade]

Honestly I would want to see you 1v1 if Chaos is town but odds of that are nil prolly

[MathBlade]

if Chaos is town then Gamma is confirmed Town

If Chaos is town Gamma is confirmed to have a gun which is NAI

[MathBlade]

Titus is town because she's the only claimed anti-killing role and we had 2 nights of no deaths.

Or she’s scum gambiting

The only two claimed players with guns are Titus and Gamma and Chaos said scum have a gun so I would look there

[MathBlade]

The only way Titus can be scum is if she nokilled twice and knew there was no town protective but it makes no sense because a claimed protective pretty much can't endgame?

Then by your argument
Mafia doctor can’t endgame either
So mafia doc,neighbor, traitor doesn’t work

[MathBlade]

if Chaos is town then Gamma is confirmed Town

If Chaos is town Gamma is confirmed to have a gun which is NAI

Chaos said there is only 1 mafia with a gun.

Umlaut is dead and had a gun.

Therefore Gamma can't be scum because Gamma has a gun.

Derp

Then fuck me if Chaos is town I don’t know

[MathBlade]

Then again I still don’t care as I win anyway

[MathBlade]

Doesn’t matter

Assume gunsmith checks Gamma N1 forces Gamma claim D2
Gamma gets guilty or inno on someone
Assume Gamma gets miselimmed
It’s like never miselimming at all because 2 conf alignments

There is no way to not end the D1 with two conf alignments minimum

[MathBlade]

Doesn’t matter

Assume gunsmith checks Gamma N1 forces Gamma claim D2
Gamma gets guilty or inno on someone
Assume Gamma gets miselimmed
It’s like never miselimming at all because 2 conf alignments

There is no way to not end the D1 with two conf alignments minimum

d1 we yeet datisi
n1 gamma checks ____
n1 titus blocks gamma
n1 chaos checks ____
n1 scum shoot chaos

d2 wake up 0 clears.

Titus is conf town there and because gamma was blocked and says so he’s clear
Two confs try again

[MathBlade]

Math, I don't think you running through the scenarios is helping anything anymore

It’s more the principle at this point.

D1 realistically ends with 3-4 confs sure you can come up with scenarios with 2

But that’s literally unwinnable for scum

[MathBlade]

Go even further assume Titus and Chaos are town
Scum are penalized for miselimming them and have to elim or shoot them to win

[MathBlade]

The easiest way to tell of a setup is broken is to describe how scum wins.
Call it path to victory

In this setup proposed the path to victory relies on fake innos from gunsmith due to cops.
Scum lose if they shoot gunsmith
Scum try to elim gunsmith. Gunsmith says 1 gun in game
Scum lose because no fake innos

[MathBlade]

then I'm conftown from being roleblocked by scum?

She’s saying Titus isn’t confirmed town
But she’s confirmed town on account of 1 scum from Chaos

[MathBlade]

Because when he flips he flips informed so even if he doesn’t say what he’s informed about logical leap that he’s informed number of guns. Given OP says 3 scum have day chat less than 3 guns Titus claims gun role boom conf town

[MathBlade]

In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, PT Cops, Vengefuls, Detectives, Neapolitans, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

Oh it changed….

Fine one conf in a very very convoluted scenario

[MathBlade]

Titus is conf town there and because gamma was blocked and says so he’s clear
Two confs try again

Gamma saying he is blocked doesn't Confirm Titus as innocent, she could simply be scum roleblocker in that scenario.

i think titus' tone has been well out of her scumrange here

I think Titus is very town. I am mostly rebutting Mathblade's theoretic mechspec that claims the game is unwinnable for scum as claimed so our PRs must be scum or whatever?

You have given one scenario where there is only one conf in a list a mile wide

That’s no where near probable

[MathBlade]

then I'm conftown from being roleblocked by scum?

She’s saying Titus isn’t confirmed town
But she’s confirmed town on account of 1 scum from Chaos

In the hypothetical scenario that you outlined we don't know if Chaos will flip with the informed info.

And also there isn't a scum flip already so even if we did have the info Titus could still be a scum roleblocker.

It’s a normal
If Chaos is town and informed
He must flip Informed gunsmith

[MathBlade]

You have given one scenario where there is only one conf in a list a mile wide

That’s no where near probable

I am giving a counter example because you are saying the game is unwinnable and the town is guranteed multiple conf town by D2 which is simply not true.

One example with <5% odds of happening is not a reasonable play

[MathBlade]

It’s a normal
If Chaos is town and informed
He must flip Informed gunsmith

ok but if he doesnt claim his information before the scum shoot him how would we know what he is informed of?

That’s why I said logical leap to what he’s informed of.
Gunsmith >> Guns
3 guns useless >> informed of 2 or less
3 on open unneeded if only 2
Informed of one gun
Checkmate

[MathBlade]

anyways math, who is scum due to dayplay

I don’t care.
If elim Chaos I win no matter what being town

[MathBlade]

then I'm conftown from being roleblocked by scum?

She’s saying Titus isn’t confirmed town
But she’s confirmed town on account of 1 scum from Chaos

In the hypothetical scenario that you outlined we don't know if Chaos will flip with the informed info.

And also there isn't a scum flip already so even if we did have the info Titus could still be a scum roleblocker.

informed does not flip with info, but in the case of town informed the informed flip is enough to verify whatever information they claimed

Exactly

Smart play for him would be first post

One scum in setup with gun

Who cares if he gets shot then
Reveals mafia doctor has to be in setup due to normal rules
Turns rolecop into alignment cop

Gg

[MathBlade]

i feel like math is posting so much, yet i don't actually know his thoughts on this game other than "too much pr" and "yeet omega autowin"

i could be dead tired but idk

You forgot “this game is broken” but that’s pretty much it

Ari doesn’t think so so since she’s the only one listening I am trying to convince her so this setup doesn’t happen if she becomes/is a mod/reviewer

[MathBlade]

You forgot “this game is broken” but that’s pretty much it

Ari doesn’t think so so since she’s the only one listening I am trying to convince her so this setup doesn’t happen if she becomes/is a mod/reviewer

?

I do think mini normals tend to be broken. You don't have to convince me of that.

Then why are you arguing this one isn’t? When it clearly is based on the proposed data?

[MathBlade]

Then why are you arguing this one isn’t? When it clearly is based on the proposed data?

because you are using logical fallacies to argue that this game is broken beyond repair and we should kill chaos?

It is broken and by definition that means beyond repair
And elimming chaos wins the game whatever alignment
Chaos scum >> 1-2 scum doesn’t survive against this stack
Chaos town >> townfirms force a scum bus or in elo accusing buddies
Win win let’s gooo

[MathBlade]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

Yes because that’s my scum meta so scum are doing it

[MathBlade]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

Yes because that’s my scum meta so scum are doing it

who is scum doing that here?

PR claims
Fake a result
Get townread
Coast

[MathBlade]

in essence- the play is way too complex for scum. scum only look at the next step in most cases.

it takes a leap of faith for chaos to do what they are doing.

i'll consider them in limlo *only* if math were to flip scum but im definitely not seeing them as scum here at all.

If you’re not seeing me as scum why are you pushing me as scum?

[MathBlade]

Koba scum slip?
Chaos Koba?

[MathBlade]

The biggest problem is let’s assume you’re right and I am scum. You’re not but let’s go for it.

Most of the time worry when I want to be elimmed and I am scum.
My play has been substandard in all forms.

Interesting….

[MathBlade]

What am I at? Should I like effort now? No… efforting is bad…will seek revenge.

[MathBlade]

VC 4.02

Not_Mafia (2):

Aristeia 2936, ChaosOmega 3483

Aristeia (2):

Titus 3544, Gamma Emerald 3545

MathBlade (2):

DkKoba 2918, Datisi 3554

ChaosOmega (1):

MathBlade 3121

Not Voting:

Not_Mafia, Lukewarm 3271

With 9 alive it takes 5 to destroy.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-09-03 17:05:00)

prodding tris

Well hot doggity.

Guess I will be flipped then maybe.

*shrug*

Elim Chaos.

[MathBlade]

Remember that and we win.

[MathBlade]

Way too many PRs and we got this Let town think they’re winning.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Math just to be sure

[MathBlade]

And FYI I always think three steps ahead

And I can’t respond to that without outing you but I have known.

I will protect you always.

[MathBlade]

Oh nah I am vengeful Townie. Taking out either Titus or Chaos. JK maybe?

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ful_(role)

Am I? Am I not?

You’ll see. Taking suggestions.

[MathBlade]

And when I flip town?

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: My role

[MathBlade]

mod
mafia
neighbors
dead
dead w/ spoilers

mafia and neighbors, you have 48 hours to issue redactions or to say you want it not to open. also let me know if you want me to release your notes pt if you have one.

I'm going to say I kinda don't want to open. I used a very typical traitor crumb to tell Not Mafia who to kill.
I was not up to my usual caliber this game. Setup was still broken don't get me wrong as there was no way to victory even if I played better.

Ari almost won this the day after Umlaut died so she really deserves some props. I don't think I've ever buddied so hard.

Gonna have more thoughts when I wake up more.

[MathBlade]

Needless to play even though the setup was broken town deserved this win and played way better than scum.

[MathBlade]

ChaosOmega: Town: Informed Gunsmith
Datisi: Town Traffic Analyst
Gamma Emerald: Town Two-Shot Rolecop

Both Datisi and GT are alignment cops because of Chaos.

All three fire N1 assuming town VT miselimmed

Odds of all players not getting a guilty N1 (8/11) * (8/11) * (10/11) = 48%
Odds of at least one player getting a guilty approx 52% N1

Now let's assume Titus roleblocked an alignment cop (which is about 18% chance)
Looking at just the two for both not getting a guilty is (8/11) * (10/11) = 66%
Odds of at least one player with a guilty is 44%

I don't think this should have passed review TBH especially when all scum have to deep wolf. I think a traitor completely nerfs scum here when odds are one is getting guiltied N1 and no mechanical way to talk about it, or needed 3 scum and a traitor or an invest or a blocker.

Don't get me wrong I played bad and deserved to lose but setups like this where scum are almost certainly guiltied need to stop.

[MathBlade]

why did i die lol

It was between you and Datisi and I thought you crumbed PR so I suggested it to NM and Umlaut

[MathBlade]

Also LoL at Datisi for trying to pass his guilty onto Chaos but Chaos had his own.

I knew Datisi had a guilty. Between the PT (not crumb crumb) and that it was more me trying to salvage the day and make not Mafia look good and not instantly lose to Ari's push

[MathBlade]

ChaosOmega: Town: Informed Gunsmith
Datisi: Town Traffic Analyst
Gamma Emerald: Town Two-Shot Rolecop

Both Datisi and GT are alignment cops because of Chaos.

You forgot about me being an even night traffic analyst

You're scum dude Game's over

[MathBlade]

It was just so noticable too becaues you never capitalize almost anything LMAO.

Maybe I mindcontrolled you for a post XD (Joking tone)

[MathBlade]

n_m, why the traffic analyst claim?

Pretty sure it was last ditch effort memeing at that point. Too many PRs existed so it was just trying anything to see it stick. I was pretty much trying to eat an elim ever since the no kill early because if ya'll put together Not mafia no killed likely answer it was GG.

[MathBlade]

This set up felt very town sided. 3 night one investigates and a loyal jailkeeper vs essentially a scum team with a traitor does not look good

I think that the scum team over all did very good (minus the failed NK ). Like, across all of the replacements.

Umlaut and Flubber did a great job of looking like they could never be partners. Prism really towned it up. Not_Mafia made it to the Koba town block. And Math was amazing.

Thanks for the kind words Luke but I really didn't. I town block way better than I did and am way better and shade casting.

I needed NM to kill Titus there.

Meh fuck it go ahead and release the PT afterall. I had a plan that was going to get us to victory but it required Titus dying.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

This is pretty much where I am at.

Playing elim in the PoE til the game is over. Unless someone has a specific question ciao for now.

No reason to create more bloat for me to add to tonight’s catch up

Like I set this up to where NM didn't have to read...Titus was first in the list of three. Kill Titus.

*cries in sad*

[MathBlade]

Congrats on winning, town! I have a TON of comments & thoughts to share typed up that will unfortunately have to wait for later tonight, as it's saved to my laptop and I am out.

Very well played overall, and contrary to everyone else I actually liked the approach Mastina took to designing this game even if it was townsided!

I say it in my notes PT, but I think scum had clear winning chances up until the NK.

I think the approach is good but needs way more town to pull off. I think it works for a large but not a mini normal due to probability. The idea of false innos is really good just the numbers and how it was implemented I have issue with.

[MathBlade]

Did you at least get my crumb to you? I wasn't sure if Umlaut passed you I was traitor. I was really hoping to scum with you. Sorry you replaced out and for the T3 kill T3 did a really good PR crumb.

[MathBlade]

I knew you were scum, and I thought T3 kill was the single biggest mistake in the game despite seeing the crumb. I was adamant that a Datisi kill was optimal but several others were serviceable, I thought T3 was the single worst kill in the game lol

Yeah I wish I would have been able to talk. I thought we were in a good spot so T3 would have been a PR and a null kill and not point to anyone. Like I said i was horrible. I was actually setting up for a fake doctor bit to give some credence to Prism before I realized how screwed we were. But if it never came up I was okay.

[MathBlade]

Traitors almost never end game and I was going to set up Prism to look amazing...Until the shit show that was Umlaut guiltied twice like crap...woulda been thrice if not for Titus lol.

[MathBlade]

Yeah Not Mafia hates reading as scum so before Umlaut died I told him to tell Not Mafia all he has to do is ISO me and then find my last post where I mention two or more town. The first town in that list was the person I was suggesting killing. So this way if he reads he has my suggestion and can veto but if not then he's okay

I was really surprised when Titus didn't die and with how Titus was pushing me I thought she blocked me so maybe inno...I was hoping to play stupid...The no one surprised the shit out of me.

[MathBlade]

I don't even try to PR hunt. It is one of the last factors I take into account for N1/N2, and I think shooting for them is a categorical mistake.

can i ask what made you want to kill me then?

Dude you were like the obvious of obv town...Like I waffled between you and T3 when the PT opens.

[MathBlade]

That and Gamma although I thought Titus and Gamma were lovers....Did I mention my PR crumbing skills were shit and I sucked okay cool I sucked.

[MathBlade]

Like I really need a town game here...I've been scum so many times I'm forgetting what Town is like so my scum game gets worse...I think my last one was WH 13.

[MathBlade]

Lovers aren’t even normal KEKW

I keep forgetting things changed I still remember when SK's were normal LMAO

[MathBlade]

Meh you were pretty good. I thought you were setting up a me fail. I was going to claim doctor eventually after scumming super hard then have you CC me.

[MathBlade]

But that's only if needed.

[MathBlade]

I know you said you’re doing the ISO thing but some things probably won’t make sense in a vaccuum.

I'll read the whole game front to back regardless but I rarely read ISOs even later, and discussions with petapan have made me very interested in giving it a try at the start rather than just lategame.

I apologize if the approach winds up being frustrating.

*lights your router on fire*

Hope you got someone to heal your router so you can post tomorrow.

Here's where I set up my fake "crumb" and told you I knew you were doc in one post

[MathBlade]

I think a lot will be surprising about my Day 1 play for certain players. Obviously now with my postgame demeanor I was not at all upset Day 1-just incredibly bored/disinterested as I think the game only became exciting Day 2-but I was very intentional about keeping Pooky in a sort of Twilight Zone, and a lot around Datisi was funny because he plays with his cards close to chest. I felt like I did the right small motions but out of order!

A bit of time was spent on keeping Vulture out of the game entirely, and everything Lukewarm picked up on with me was intentional but he was NOT meant to connect it that early and I was deeply impressed. It was really meant to be a slow burn.

I felt bad for Alchemist but obviously it was an NAI replaceout. I just had the chance to take a 3/4 week road trip and here I am.

Ari's not pooky lol I don't know why people say this. I know who it is but she's not pooky lol

[MathBlade]

Oh yeah Vulture if he stuck around busses me day 3 or four for sure no stop. He was right I was sucking up to Titus hard.

[MathBlade]

I guess it's pushes lol

[MathBlade]

Hey I need to say a majority of those posts were probably a bit harsher than how I meant to take it and I am sorry if it did

I was playing ATE hard to try to get Not Mafia another day while trying to shade PRs to give him room.

Thank you for listening Mastina and I owe you a longer response atm but I think the biggest thing is just the odds of a guilty N1 + traitor.

I would love to see this idea play out in a large and I think it would work better.

[MathBlade]

Yeah agreed.

I just have had a weird week and kinda don’t feel like doing post game stuff,

Thanks for the comments Prism. I will read them later just not in the mood for readwalls.

And I thought T3 was unpocketable PR and Datisi was.
I like keeping incorrect obvTown around then I kill them later so town gets wrong reads
T3 I thought was PR never getting killed and not manipulatable unlike Titus or Datisi or Gamma

*hides before they disagree*

[MathBlade]

So I fell for T3’s post
(Two games in a row I have fallen for a d1 PR slip ugh)

I need a town game so I remember what it’s like lol