[SETUP] T130

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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[SETUP] T130

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:19 am

Post by Kerset »

10 Town

3 Scum

During pregame each player needs to send a number between 1~10 to mod. List of players is being randomized and each player receive a role according to Table 1 and Table 2.
Spoiler: Table 1
PlayerRole position
Player 1Player 1 pick
Player 2Player 1 role position + Player 2 pick
Player 3Player 2 role position + Player 3 pick
Player 4Player 3 role position + Player 4 pick
Player 5Player 4 role position + Player 5 pick
Player 6Player 5 role position + Player 6 pick
Player 7Player 6 role position + Player 7 pick
Player 8Player 7 role position + Player 8 pick
Player 9Player 8 role position + Player 9 pick
Player 10Player 9 role position + Player 10 pick
Player 11Player 10 role position + Player 11 pick
Player 12Player 11 role position + Player 12 pick
Player 13Player 12 role position + Player 13 pick

Spoiler: Table 2
Role positionRole
1Quitter
2VT
3VT
4VT
5VT
6VT
7VT
8VT
9VT
10VT
11VT
12VT
13VT
14VT
15VT
16VT
17VT
18VT
19VT
20VT
21VT
22VT
23VT
24VT
25VT
26VT
27VT
28VT
29VT
30VT
31Acetic
32Acetic
33N4 Alien
34N4 Alien
35Fruit vendor
36Fruit vendor
37Neighborizer
38Neighborizer
39N1 Tracker
40N1 Tracker
41N1 Parity Cop
42N1 Parity Cop
431S Alien
441S Alien
452S Motion Det
462S Motion Det
472S Rolecop
482S Rolecop
492S Rolecop
502S Vanilla Cop
512S Vanilla Cop
523S Follower
533S Follower
54Psychologist
55Psychologist
562S Jailkeeper
572S Jailkeeper
58Disloyal Roleblocker
59Disloyal Roleblocker
60Ascetic Weak Hider
61Ascetic Weak Hider
62Lazy Doctor
63Lazy Doctor
641S PGO
651S PGO
66Desperando
67Desperando
68Vengeful
69N1N2 Commuter
70Universal Backup
71Universal Backup
72Universal Backup
73N1N2 Doctor
74N1N2 Doctor
75N1N2 Doctor
76N1N2 Bulletproof
771S Babysitter
781S Babysitter
791S Babysitter
80N1 Vigilante
812S Bodyguard
822S Bodyguard
832S Bodyguard
84N1 Detective
85N1 Detective
86Mailman
87Mailman
88Mailman
89N4 Vigilante
90N4 Vigilante
91Ascetic
92Ascetic
93VT
94VT
95VT
96VT
97VT
98VT
99VT
100VT
101VT
102VT
103VT
104VT
105VT
106VT
107VT
108VT
109VT
110VT
111VT
112VT
113VT
114VT
115VT
116VT
117VT
118VT
119VT
120VT
121VT
122VT
123VT
124VT
125VT
126VT
127VT
128VT
129VT
130Quitter


After this each member of mafia may choose one additional modifier: Multitasking, Informed (identity of player above him on the list) or N-X Ninja Strongman.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:40 am

Post by Bingle »

Could you give a sample roll? I’m having trouble visualizing how this works.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:30 am

Post by Kerset »

P1 pick 6 > 6 > (6)=VT
P2 pick 7 > 6+7 > (13)=VT
P3 pick 1 > 13+1 > (14)=VT
P4 pick 5 > 14+5 > (21)=VT
P5 pick 10 > 21+10 >(31)=VT
P6 pick 2 > 31+2 > (33)=N4 Alien
P7 pick 7 > 33+7 > (40)=N1 Tracker
P8 pick 4 > 40+4 > (44)=1S Alien
P9 pick 4 > 44+4 > (48)=2S Rolecop
(...)
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:16 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

The best pick is probably always 10... for town. Which means that if there is no Quitter town asks everyone for their picks(Picks, not roles). Then everyone reveals their roles. This should help town determine the setup, and help town determine who failed to pick 10.
If someone claims Quitter they are executed. If they were the Quitter then town proceeds to a massclaim Day 2(because the setup is now known). With approx. 4-5 IC's...yeah well.

Sounds very townsided.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:55 am

Post by Bingle »

Without looking too far into it, there's probably an optimal scumchoice based on that logic, which might then nash's equilibrium into it going back to a Semi Open instead of an Open. Dunno how that would end up playing out though.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:16 pm

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 3, Not Known 15 wrote:The best pick is probably always 10... for town. Which means that if there is no Quitter town asks everyone for their picks(Picks, not roles). Then everyone reveals their roles. This should help town determine the setup, and help town determine who failed to pick 10.
If someone claims Quitter they are executed. If they were the Quitter then town proceeds to a massclaim Day 2(because the setup is now known). With approx. 4-5 IC's...yeah well.

Sounds very townsided.
Forget this, I made a major error.

The best town pick is probably 6. It gives town good roles, and scum needs to be careful in choosing different because that could backfire.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:39 am

Post by Kerset »

Only scum got pregame chat, so town can't schedule this.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:48 am

Post by Bingle »

If there is truly a dominant choice it’s existence in this discussion makes it an issue. I still think the mash equilibrium will probably solve that though.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:06 am

Post by Bingle »

Looking at roles from a small town perspective n1 vig, N4 vig, vengeful very powerful in the hands of scum, potentially problematic.

Town want to average 6.85 on their picks (get to 90 without overshooting, maximizing number of prs.) so they should likely pick in a range of 6-8. Scum picking triple 2 is probably optimal (more likely to negatively impact number of prs, impossible to get quitter).

My gut says massclaim of number picks D1 then claim of any role that isn’t particularly worth saving that conflicts with that range, then massclaim of select roles (desperado and ascetic, for example) that don’t want to remain hidden if town should happen D1 and full massclaim should happen D3.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:53 am

Post by Kerset »

I guess scum can get upperhand with vig or rb but similar thing works fine in pyp x/y. Over there scum just get suspicion during massclaim for evil use.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:44 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 8, Bingle wrote:Town want to average 6.85 on their picks (get to 90 without overshooting, maximizing number of prs.) so they should likely pick in a range of 6-8. Scum picking triple 2 is probably optimal (more likely to negatively impact number of prs, impossible to get quitter).
No, you want just 6.
The last part of the PR's isn't good enough.
And scum definitely doesn't want to pick 2 2 2 in that case!
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:41 am

Post by Bingle »

Looking at all 6 it’s an overly swingy small town, but not necessarily broken for town. Town power is some subset of parity cop/psych/hider/desp/UB/babysitter

Desp/UB is way overpowered, but scum choosing a single 7 makes that a non issue without too large of a narrowing of the location of one scum.

Additionally, up to 3 of those roles are scum. I’m not convinced it’s a truly optimal strat and given that I don’t think that any strategy relying on town all independently arriving at the decision to follow this threads advice on picks isn't realistic.

As a whole the setup is probably way more swingy than is desirable and likely has more in the way of town power than it should, though.

An interesting tweak that might solve NK’s issue fully and depower town a bit is to randomize who gets what roles independently of who submits what number.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:29 am

Post by Kerset »

How about i just add a rule that first pick is being increased by random number 1~10?
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:00 am

Post by Bingle »

That'd work. You could also make the list circular and start it at a random position to get the same effect.

You still run into the problem of there being setups that scum just lose at rand, but I don't think there's a way to fix that and have the setup work as intended.
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