Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m offended because you’re starting to go down that road of questioning things that are established issues for me.

I have no idea what this means.

I’m pretty sure I’ve talked on this site before about how I dislike unwarranted authority, and will actively decry it when confronted with it. It feels like you’re trying to suggest my feelings in that regard are fake, and that drives me up the wall to an even greater degree than the misplaced authority thing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what do you think of that looking back with what I pointed out about her meta?

Picking her eas my suggestion, and iirc we also mentioned LLDin this discussion as well

Ninja-
Fwiw we are equally as surprised we have thread control right now.

It’s also weird, because I feel like my posts in FGO in the slot you came to occupy had a sense of authority as well?

You were conftown in FGO2, you didn’t need to earn authority anymore once that happened
And yeah the kyouko stuff was somewhat convincing but that doesn’t retroactively negate what I initially felt. And I’m aware LLD was also chosen and I had no qualms with her being chosen.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure gimme a sec
I wanna do this on PC vs. mobile

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty assertive myself, and I also kinda joined because I felt incensed by what I originally thought was mocking marci

[Gamma Emerald]

It was a scum role that was a combination of Alien and in-thread silence that kept Maria/Beeboy out of the game for a month.

well clearly scum knew what the fuck they were doing with that role
if there's someone whose posting I'd want to suppress as town when I'm scum, it'd be beeboy

[Gamma Emerald]

A common thought we had there that in applying here is a role that allows scum to be removed from elimination seems like a bad game design sense.

What if I told you I inherit a weaker version of that role if he dies?

what if I told you I'm pretty sure the only way GiF dies is by scum killing him?

[Gamma Emerald]

A common thought we had there that in applying here is a role that allows scum to be removed from elimination seems like a bad game design sense.

What if I told you I inherit a weaker version of that role if he dies?

what if I told you I'm pretty sure the only way GiF dies is by scum killing him?

My point is that Kate's argument is failing to account for my role

I think you have ignored the multitude of vig flips/claims this game in assuming that only scum could kill gif

I should have been more specific, at this stage in the game scum are likely the only ones who can kill GiF

[Gamma Emerald]

Speaking of Cabd, in 633 you reference your reaction to ManateeGal as being a reaction test, right? Were you expecting anyone in particular to react a certain way, or was it geared towards getting a reaction from anyone in particular?

yes and no!

Everything I do, I try to extract max value out of. I did try to shape my objections similar to what had hit the thread re: LLD's role but they were also genuinely my thoughts at the time, in that I struggle to see how this setup will be set up around what is effectively double day. Generally speaking, I try to ascribe to mods that they won't make a single player or role have so much agency that it denies others theirs completely, but that would be the case here if Manatee and LLD are both town.

okay this was like, THE post that made me townlock cabd. Something about the way the extracting value was discussed just rung out as town to me

It's definitely becoming a larger problem. I noticed is mostly with bell in the last game, but "You aren't allowed to scum read me lol and it's a pox on your house if you do" is completely against the idea of the game of mafia. People get to live inside their heads and know their role PMs but like, you can't expect everyone to have that luxury.

Being wrong is a thing that happens. By definition, a LOT in a game like this.

At the risk of making your hair stand on end for what is explicitly a blatant buddying attempt: Wanna just be in thread neighbors for a while? I for one am open to hearing about your take on fferysci. As the game that shall not be named showed, my reads aren't ALWAYS xenoblade tier perfect. Maybe I'm missing something major that you're seeing.

this one I think also helped

devil's bargain

In fairness, last time this happened was the Unwnd Large?

this wasn't really a conscious factor I think but I could definitely see me having registered on some level that this makes sense more from town pov than scum? Like it seems cabd interpreted what LLD was indicating as "I might be getting lured to my death again" vs. "I might be getting snowed by you for choosing to accept your olive branch"

these are all the posts I can identify within where I'm pretty sure I got that read thread-location wise

[Gamma Emerald]

I am finding it hard to believe that GiF has no idea what his role does, that he just disappears for an undetermined amount of time

I think the vote was placed by him and doesn't match his stances.

And he quick hammered before heading out.

We're probably dead before figuring this out is a priority, but noted.

wut
I thought you were unkillable at night or smth?

[Gamma Emerald]

The reason I was crumbing watcher as well as neighborizer is because being reflexive means we get the info that a self-watcher would get via our neighborhood, aside from anyone who tried (and failed) to kill us.

tried and failed to kill you
that means you're immune to killing roles, no?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I need to reset a little myself

I think it's time I made good on this
LLD GiF and Luke are the slots I'm already pretty sure are town out of the living
if I factor in flipped town as well I should be able to get a good idea of who scum is just by rereading

[Gamma Emerald]

fuck me

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty damn sure her claim is legit and her emotional output this game has felt genuine as fuck

[Gamma Emerald]

LLD stated D1 her only functionality was to be an extra option for who to send to do the factional kill

[Gamma Emerald]

myeah I'm not reading the full thread either
I'm just gonna self-ISO and hope I get my solve that way

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel really OOTL rn

[Gamma Emerald]

which head was it that made the troubadour Ryze post, because post-game I have something I'd like to inquire about

[Gamma Emerald]

:finger_guns:

[Gamma Emerald]

I think my solve is slowly dawning on me. I'll claim soon, so PLEASE no one else vote me until I can post my claim + solve

[Gamma Emerald]

I have come to the unsatisfying conclusion that S_S is not a player for which statistical analysis is very valid.

I've been dying to use this (extremely alpha but it's a thing!) tool. And it broke out ALL the data crunching to give me...... "S_S posts slightly longer posts as scum, and talks slightly more about other players directly by name as scum."

So it does. ALPHA after all? Adding that to the "stop words" to be ignored...

Here's this game to compare btw...

did anyone ever take this seriously?

[Gamma Emerald]

Really interested in hearing why you are not able to claim right now

tbh at this point it's just presentation, I've gone this long saving my claim for when I've posted my solve, why not let me have my moment

[Gamma Emerald]

I HAVE CAUGHT UP

DUNNSTRAL IS MY STRONGEST TOWN READ

VOTE: Kate bishop

Sry ffery

I'll invoke the rule that one (or more!) of cabd, Dunnstral, or Kate Bishop may possibly be scum. Not sure who came up with that rule, but I'll endorse it this game.

Dunn is 100% not scum

I will die on the hill that dunn is town though

Like I have hard townread in like dunnstraal but other than that Im like super paranoid this game becasue I respect a lot of peoples play and am paranoid your all just deep scum

Think I’m leaning at Marci Kate and dunn for town reads

Kate Dunn Marci
Lld Cabd
SS, SSBM, DGB, Gif, Lukewarm
Titus

I have too many null reads

@wheme

why has Dunnstral been such a hard townread for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll take that as a “no” to the original question

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I’m gonna have to claim before posting my solve just because no solve is feeling satisfactory to me rn, in part because I realized my solve I was going with had a massive flaw in the logic via stuff I was going over when writing up background details for my claim

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m gonna claim in the next 12 hours. That is a

promise

.

[Gamma Emerald]

The only thing holding me back at this point is other mafia games and irl obligations
Plus, I’m not really crafting anything and haven’t really had to think too hard on what exactly I’m claiming for a while
Pretty much when I said I needed to reset initially was when all the pieces fell into place for understanding my role and how I wanted to claim

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s moreso thinking about ramifications of my claim, the impact it’ll have on the thread

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought you wanted to have your moment or something

I can't really accept any solve for long enough to post it so I'm posting the claim first and maybe it'll give me the answers I need to actually get a full and confident solve

It’s moreso thinking about ramifications of my claim, the impact it’ll have on the thread

This is also something you do not need to do

in my case, yes it absolutely is

[Gamma Emerald]

I am Rem Galleu from How Not to Summon a Demon Lord, and I am a Doombringer. What that means is if ever I die to being voted out, the mafia get a bonus kill that they can use immediately, and they can use it on ANYONE, regardless of what might otherwise prevent their death. THIS IS WHY GIF IS PRACTICALLY CONFTOWN TO ME, because my role basically has to be implemented as counterplay to his. I also think LLD is town because of how our roles seem to mesh, with LLD being a tool they can use while alive and me being a tool they can use via my death. I had thought Kate to be probably town for the same logic I was applying to GiF but that ended up being a red herring, and I don’t believe I made things clear enough about my GiF stance that it could be inferred I had the “ability” I have, so it’s not town-indicative that they denied being bulletproof (which if I thought they could have parsed my role bit I was alluding to, in that case they could have let me be mistaken and falsely trusted them).
I also felt like my role ran counter to manatee's for some time, because having what looked like the ability to vote someone out all on his own felt a bit incongruous with my role, but that fact it functioned as a vig shot explains how they could avoid interacting
I think someone asked how my character resulted in marcistar sending the false positive to Cabd, and I think I get why, she used the word sky inadvertently which caused cabd to home in on her and try to see if marci's flavor matched what he was looking for, and his question just so happened to kinda resemble my character so marci gave an affirmative response. This is where my attempts to create a solve have hit a snag, though. when I was writing this part of the post up initially, my solve was kate/wheme/cabd, but that doesn't make sense with cabd seeming to be genuinely trying to find who shiro was. that basically leave me with some combination of kate/cabd/kyouko/dunnstral but like kyouko and dunnstral don't feel like scum theater here, I guess kate/cabd/dunnstral works but it just doesn't sit well with me on a gut level (out of kyouko/dunnstral I'm more inclined to believe kyouko is town)

[Gamma Emerald]

that's because there's no way I can reconcile your push on unwnd/S_S as okay, it is plain as day that you had an agenda against that slot the whole time

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that a killing role?

I'm pretty sure it is
but like, I don't see how you think trying to test my role is a good idea atp, I guess I could maybe get vig shot but I greatly doubt scum will ever NK me now that I've claimed

[Gamma Emerald]

as I said nothing makes sense here
I just don't want to die because if I die town just loses

[Gamma Emerald]

the specific flavor for what happens when I die in a way that triggers the role is the demon lord trapped inside me gets freed and the scumteam get to use its power to destroy anyone in any world

[Gamma Emerald]

nope
it's just the one thing
I basically recognized from the word "go" that the play was to get myself NKed, tbh had manatee been upfront about her role I 100% would have asked her to place her vote on me (yes I'm aware it was already locked in when I repped inbut iI could have had her do it d2)

[Gamma Emerald]

again I did that before fully processing the implications of the titus flip
I honestly have been behind the curve on a lot of things
I-I feel like an idiot...

[Gamma Emerald]

theres' no way I yield on LLD and GiF being town, the only TR I could see being wrong on is Luke, and if so I am confusion, because my reason for townlocking him is that his reaction the the fake daycop guilty thing felt really natural so if that's wrong then I guess there just is no right answer when dealing with those things
yes this is me saying I have some internalized feelings about how I've handled fake guilties in the past

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda just want this game to be over with but I don't wanna be the reason town loses

[Gamma Emerald]

in that case how am I, how is he, how is ANYBODY supposed to react to a daycop guilty claim???

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm ugessing snarky fishes is someone with a similar role, but which game are yall talking about

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think vengeful is a fair descriptor to my role given it's not me who gets to steer the kill

[Gamma Emerald]

I looked at the bloodstained game, cabd has a point
my role feels much closer to beloved princess than vengeful

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think jjh quite realizes the level of squick involved
iirc the thing in the rules about the meta section is basically an open invitation to discuss that part, in it jjh just calls my character and the anime she's from generic

[Gamma Emerald]

I think they don't know what exactly you mean dunnstral
as I see it there's two things you could mean, one of which I approve of a whole lot more

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh it's just one vote and it's MELo
the other thing that would have made me claim would have been having two votes on me fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so it looks like Dunn is doing the bad thing
Apparently the anime my character is from has a TON of sexual undertones/overtones/just tones in general, so birthing is perhaps being said in the literal sense

[Gamma Emerald]

GiF claimed to be from Spirited Away, so cannot be Sora

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so it looks like Dunn is doing the bad thing
Apparently the anime my character is from has a TON of sexual undertones/overtones/just tones in general, so birthing is perhaps being said in the literal sense

I'm not doing anything.

Yes you are
You are disavowing the disturbing nature of my flavor

[Gamma Emerald]

???

It looked like you were saying birthing wasn’t the flavor context for the demon lord appearing
Based on how lewd the series apparently is you’re very wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

Kate are the super novice vig and 1s hood vig separate
If ever we end up in a good place numbers wise I want you to shoot me

[Gamma Emerald]

That sucks then because I don’t have any active abilities to target you with
Hopefully maybe this other world can help me then

[Gamma Emerald]

I initially interpreted it as Sora and Shiro

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d kinda already been at like Cabd/Kate/? for a while when you claimed your flavor

Okay, actually, what does "taken out of the box" even mean, if you are scum reading both?

It meant I had a read that went beyond BoP on cabd
And I went over the posts that made me feel like cabd was town already

[Gamma Emerald]

If I had to place a read at this exact second I’d say Immtiwnreading him

[Gamma Emerald]

What changed was in the midst of explaining what I figured went pear-shaped with cabd’s signaling I realized that Cabd was probably genuinely town, and I also like his posting involving my claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Wheme is definitely town

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think Marcis crumbs fit her flavor or her role, Luke?

I have not known Marci to crumb really at all, but most of our games together have been newbie games, so not a solid base line.

Looking though her iso, the only one that stands out to me as a crumb was this

the sky has opened up and told me this is a sign

Which, does not really make sense for the flavor claim Gamma made

I have acknowledged this, I’m guessing Marci just felt like being poetic there.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

This is a full claim besides my character name which I will happily provide if asked.

Seems people really forgot about this, eh

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think she meant she was included in that
She’s not something that adds kills to the game. Manatee was, Toog wasn’t, I am, DGB might have been, and Kate’s claim is one

[Gamma Emerald]

because I feel like the answer is clear to me and she seems to be rather checked out

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know a whole lot about League, sorry

[Gamma Emerald]

what the fuck

[Gamma Emerald]

pedit (LLD Claim): Interesting. I kinda want to eliminate Dunn the most now as he has that undead magnet/conduit ability which could fuck with S_S doctoring from the grave. If he is scum and he inherited the magnet, there's no way S_S will be able to stop the scumkill if his doctor is pulled onto Dunn. But if he's town and is the conduit, does it mean S_S won't be able to doc anymore? hmmmm...

what is this even trying to say
there was nothing about doctoring from the grave from what I can tell?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know what to believe anymore

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't feel good about this
I feel like kyoukoo is perspective slipping somewhat

[Gamma Emerald]

dunn could be scum or town but kyouko's certainty in his role doesn't feel right

[Gamma Emerald]

even if cabd is scum he cant be aligned with wheme because the way cabd was looking for shiro seems like it's at least accurate in that shiro is town

[Gamma Emerald]

my head is such a fucking mess rn I don't even know WHAT you mean

[Gamma Emerald]

even if cabd is scum he cant be aligned with wheme because the way cabd was looking for shiro seems like it's at least accurate in that shiro is town

Can still be that both their flavors are fake and it's just a long con

no, cabd was genuinely searching, I'm sure of it

[Gamma Emerald]

That game there was faulty assumptions because of bad play on my team’s part
Why are you assuming Dunn’s role is true?

[Gamma Emerald]

and to be clear I included myself when I said my team

[Gamma Emerald]

Like there’s trying to solve a mech heavy setup and making some errors, and then there’s assuming the person who claimed their role after you claimed a guilty on them is trueclaiming

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I want to no lim and have Wheme check Dunnstral tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

do you have a response to anything I just said about kyouko?

[Gamma Emerald]

do you have a response to anything I just said about kyouko?

this was directed at Kate but Wheme could answer if he wants

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
I still want the no lim + rc check on dunnstral but that makes sense

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I’m back to trusting Cabd

[Gamma Emerald]

I HATE THIS GAME WITH A PASSION

KATE ARE U SCUM

I CAN LITERALLY SEE EVERYONE HERE AS SCUM AND I HATE IT

Welcome to Hell, it’s nice and warm

[Gamma Emerald]

GiF is town because my role exists
nuff said

[Gamma Emerald]

Can y’all just take my damn word for this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Would you stop with this inane game of cat and mouse and either kiss and make up or just go at each other?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re just wasting his and everyone else’s time at this point. I don’t care how much you want to burn me for this, if you do so I don’t feel at fault for what happens next.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have been trying to turn a new leaf but it’s really damn hard. And regardless of how I read you, you’re still just dragging shit out longer than it needs to be. And in reality you’re one to talk with how you’re acting towards Cabd, and yet you aren’t even vocalizing anything real.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t want this day to still be going when I’m at my sister’s wedding. Capiche?

[Gamma Emerald]

The wedding is happening on some day between Tuesday and Thursday next week, I’m not sure and I’ve been afraid to ask.
Is that not enough time to get something done? Do you expect your patience with Cabd to last that long?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because this feels like the third straight day this has been a hold-up
And I’ve been pretty clear about wanting out of this emotional torture chamber for some time.

[Gamma Emerald]

In terms of reads no but in terms of wanting the torture to stop absolutely

[Gamma Emerald]

Who do you want to kill gamma?

And is that the same person you wanted to kill 3 days ago?

Right now I’d go kyouko
3 days ago I likely would have gone with Kate

[Gamma Emerald]

fuck me

Probably like right here

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean it was
But it was that revelation which made me feel spent

[Gamma Emerald]

I was hoping I had a mechanical reason to TR like I do with GiF. You being bulletproof would have been that reason.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was moreso looking at who scum would want to take out using the kill from my role. It happens immediately after lim but not in the night phase. That means it doesn’t interact with doctors and roleblockers, thus the roles it’s meant to deal with have to be ones that prevent themselves from dying.
LLD’s corrected claim just makes me feel worse, because I thought she was an ally in getting forked by the role generation but it turns out I can’t even take solace in that. It’s not like I could have gotten much better, I know for a fact that I was basically stuck with getting something shitty because of this flavor. I guess maybe Luke is the one I probably have the most kinship with because I remember he said the mod bullied him for his pick.

[Gamma Emerald]

In fact my role parallels Luke’s better than it parallels LLD’s following the corrected claim
Each of our roles does something fucky with a basic game concept, mine giving scum a bonus factional kill that ignores all impediments, Luke’s screwballing the ability to elim during the day

[Gamma Emerald]

man you really are leaning into this bad cop shtick huh

[Gamma Emerald]

Thoughts on Dunn’s being similar to a flipped town role already

I’m surprised no 1 brought it up yet

There seems to be parallels in many places

[Gamma Emerald]

It more in reference to the lack of response to 4175
I am baring my soul here and I feel like I’m just getting met with cold derision.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, please for the love of god do not validate my dad’s tirade against this site

[Gamma Emerald]

That sounds exceedingly dangerous and I walk in public with my head buried in my phone most of the time

[Gamma Emerald]

ah

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like between the vote on me and the weird treatment of the claim kyouko has been rather suspect
I also don’t place much value on reads based on being lower effort as scum, you never know which game someone is going to deliberately decide to subvert their effort meta, so you have to be hyper-vigilant

[Gamma Emerald]

yeesh
Yeah I guess you me and Luke are just a trio of getting shafted by the mod

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait is LLD a hydra

Having realized I’m kinda in the same boat it does kinda feel like a hydra experience
But no LLD is a single person posting

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm loathe to claim this, but

if the scum kill is ever blocked or stopped or doesn't occur for any reason, the brainwash is broken and i become a one shot day vig

Did anyone else forget that LLD said they full claimed earlier besides their flavor.

Pepperidge Farm

I remembered

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t know, perhaps she misread
Maybe she thought we didn’t die the first time we got limmed (I’m basically talking in terms of me and Marci as collective holders of this slot)? I kinda thought that might be the case but it’s not

[Gamma Emerald]

so I got an opportunity to squeeze in the question of which day my sister's wedding is on and it's on Wednesday

[Gamma Emerald]

gl

[Gamma Emerald]

the more I hear about people's roles the more it makes sense that marci dropped out

[Gamma Emerald]

Think about how he treated you for your pick
I feel like his attitude towards his players might have upset her a little, plus she may have thought “look at these people with these interesting roles while I just have this powder keg of a role”

[Gamma Emerald]

cabd apparently

[Gamma Emerald]

you'll at least stick around for the social parts of the site right

[Gamma Emerald]

LLD I think we need to have a brutally honest chat post-game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, it could technically happen during the game but for thread health it’s best we postpone it.

[Gamma Emerald]

On second thought, probably forget it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I should have just held my tongue

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

HEYHEY HOLD ON
What the FUCK was this for, what with your claim not being what you said it was initially???

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s not to do with the “we need to talk” FYI

[Gamma Emerald]

So that means scum also WERE aware of certain aspects?

[Gamma Emerald]

They obviously had to know something
Just, I’m starting to feel like Wheme just hit a nail on the head

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

Wondering what if scum didnt know who you were and the only way to break the brainwash is if they try to target you with the brainwashed kill :/

Is this a scumslip

[Gamma Emerald]

You might have a point but that doesn’t preclude kyouko from being scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Talk about an agenda

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunn, who’s scum to you, and why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe it’s because you haven’t done a damn thing to merit my trust and neither has kyouko, but you rush to each other’s defense the minute someone calls you out

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: kate bishop
Its transparent to me atp that they are trying to close out their scum win and thus basically maintaining an angle on practically every slot to push from except for kyouko
Kyouko is also technically acceptable but I think I’d rather get rid of Kate because while I don’t buy the claim as stated I think they’ve got something up their sleeve n3

[Gamma Emerald]

ssbm_Kyouko

I’ve already hit on my reasoning about Kyouko, highlighting her posting frequency difference between alignments. Someone else mentioned her being in the forefront with shrewd thoughts, I believe this was DGB? I also don’t think scum-kyouko makes sense with how she’s played post-N1. Her vote on Dunn backs up her claim of a guilty, before she even claimed she noted ffery’s post about making sure that investigatives can out information. Of those who voted an actual wagon, hers is the one vote I don’t side-eye for this very reason. I also liked her reaction to the crumbs reveal, I feel like that felt like a genuine response from someone not used to playing with morph and myself, which would be hard to fake on a scumteam that likely was trying to decode them at earlier times.

I don’t agree about no-elim today. But that’s personal preference.

Wheme_Star

So, I am going to preface this with I am disappointed in how little solving Wheme has done throughout the game. But disappointment does not make him scum.

First off, I’m going to reference a Tenet read. In particular, Tammy’s read on myself. This is one of the things I’ve been mulling around in my head with regards to how he reacted to the overwhelming scumreads towards the end of Day 1. There’s no denying how high a regard he gives to the members of morph and LLD, and I think scum-wheme wouldnt play the confusion angle with regards to the scumreads on him.

Second off, he can only be scum with Cabd. If Cabd is town, Wheme is confirmed town. I’d even argue given the way everything shook out between that role, wheme genuinely looks pretty town. The “Oh wait I am the person youre looking for” after all the gammarci confusion seems too out there to be a cabd/wheme scumteam. Its such a ridiculously hard interaction to coach.

Third, and credit for this goes to fairylit- she mentioned his claim being awkward and inorganic in NQN, but his claim here felt natural.

Dunnstral

This is coming down to PoE. A common thought fairylit and I had day one that if there was a player that has us pocketed, it was Dunn. He hit every single note we had perfectly, and has continued this onto day 2. But therein lies the problem- I can’t remember a time Dunn has hit every note I have thought perfectly, beating us to the punch on several occasions.

There’s also the whole, you know, tracker situation. But yeah.

GuyInFreezer

Giffy had a fine entrance to the game, and there was a decent chunk of solving. Combining this with his claim, a role that removes him from elimination contention, I find it hard to believe he is scum. There are some issues in his ISO, (read:EOD1 hammer) but I still think odds are he’s more town than not. I think that hammer is a ballsy move for Giffy to make as scum.

When discussing with fairylit, she notes his confidence as one of the big points in his favor here- particularly in his final statements about us letting wheme slip through the cracks. She also compared to Illicit, where he played a much goofier game compared to his srsbsns play here.

Lukewarm

I’ll start with the elephant in the room- my biggest issue with Luke’s play so far was his reaction to the fakehammer. Gamma and I have already discussed this earlier on today, but I felt like it was not a genuine response.

That being said, there are redeeming parts of his play in this game (it’s why he's in the top tier of our reads!). I really liked him digging into Cabd’s claim, particularly the flavor parts. As those of us that were present during Bloodstained remember, he was very big into analyzing the flavor to try and sort out what is going on.

Second, his paranoia today has screamed town to the high heavens. It has thawed even my icy heart. 3601 reminds me of the Bloodstained Titus case. 3626 is just frankly, too batshit to be scum. My biggest issue with his recent readslist is I don’t think Gamma/Wheme make sense together, but I understand I am not everybody.

Lady Lambadelta

LLD’s claim is the very first thing that makes me think town, but I need to consider loltowndesharder. When I look at her play under the microscope, her notable things from day one were pushing to eliminate people who proceeded to both flip town. And I understand I am in a glass house here and not trying to dispute it, but it is something that factors into my read. We are both a little curious as to her vote on us over the no discussion vote. We wish she was doing more things today and I do hope she reads this and engages more! Particularly on the Cabd section, as I value her opinion on the topics I’m going to discuss in it.

Overall she is in my POE but I am leaning her town and Dunn scum.

Gamma Emerald

Gamma is an interesting case. First off, let’s discuss their claim. 3768 gamma claims the characters looked alike, but when I compared Rem to Shiro I find it hard to believe this? I could be wrong but wanted to bring this to the general attention. The reason this bothers me ties in with the claim, as Cabd and Gamma have BOTH pointed out out, this is very similar to a certain Beloved Princess claim in a recently completed game. But therein lies the problem- I have NEVER played with a Beloved Princess. And now, all of a sudden, there’s two consecutive? This stretches what I am willing to believe. I suppose the point I’m positing here is if it’s possible that Gamma is lying but claimed a flavor that would fit a beloved princess. This can be taken as its entire own point, and is unique from the others as this is purely speculation on what is going on here.

Now, let’s look at marci’s play- hardcore lurking. As we all know, Scum-marci went down in three hours in Tarot. She has done absolutely nothing of consequence here, besides make one quote wall and make a post about why she was not doing things, but the slot coasted entirely through day one off of Cabd’s (incorrect) say. Had this not occurred, the slot would have most likely faced increased scrutiny. There’s also the notes from Luke about how marci is not likely to be playing the crumbing game like that, at all.

Coming into today, as I’ve already reiterated multiple times, Gamma seems of a one-track mind to discredit us. He admits to this in 3791, that a good chunk of his play today has been a pursuit of revenge for the S_S elim. This parallel’s a comment he has made in Haunted Village regarding MurderCat, one of the main pushers to follow a crumbed guilty on his scum partner. Note how he attempts to use shade over an incorrect read in an early stage of the game to try and pull favor. The strange part of this is his fixation on us. Yes, we did derail the Whemestar wagon (who Gamma now believes is town and has ignored this), onto S_S. But there were other votes on the wagon too. Particularly, Cabd. My issue with Gamma’s play today is that despite a devolving read on Cabd that Gamma speaks to in 3816, there is a dramatic difference in his approaches to us and Cabd despite both of us being on the day one elimination.

Assuming his claim is truthful, there is the core point that Gamma helped vote out the very role that he admits could help handle his role. And while we are on the subject of this vote, let’s take a look at the reasons Gamma gives for his vote, shall we? 3373 He notes it was a snap decision, but tried to change it in the notes PT to wheme. This is my first eyebrow raise, as it is hard to understand submitting an action one way then expecting a submission in another way to count? It seems like a copout. This then kinda gets retconned in 3937, which focuses more on the not digesting the Titus flip enough and ignores the supposed missed vote altogether.

A final note that bugs me is that his scumteam (from the time this was originally written) is similar to the same list WE posted, just with us over him. I find it hard to believe people think we make sense as scum with Cabd, but I understand I might be too close to the issue to see the big picture. Others can feel free to weigh in on this and tell me if they do see it, however. His scumread on Cabd changes as of 4125, around the same time he starts his "do a no elim" for Dunn!

Let’s discuss Gamma’s reaction to the guilty, shall we? He is staunchly in the camp to leave Dunn alive, going so far as to repeatedly attempt to discredit ssbm(4093, 4094, 4193, 4289). This is interesting to me, as when I review Haunted Village, I have Gamma insisting to leave his buddy alive based solely off a fakeclaim, attempting to ignore a crumbed guilty. We also have him saying not to trust us similar to how he tried to make people not trust MurderCat. A similar stance about not trusting someone regarding a townie trying to defend MurderCat. This is an example of Gamma stalling and asking for another day off the guilty, comparable to this, and this. Gamma's recent scumteam is both the person with the guilty and the person trying to see the guilty through! Who's the third? Dunno, you'll have to ask him!

In non-guilty meta data, Gamma pretending to be lost despite a guilty compared to a similar tact pulled here, despite a more drawn out day.

Cabd

This is the part everyone has been waiting for.

Let’s start with the claim. I’ve already said I find it incredibly hard to believe it is a happy accident Cabd posted my exact crumbed word four posts later, so I don’t believe his “I wouldn’t let a masonizer fferysci live” on that principle.

Second, even if I DO believe that, let’s look at his intro to today. It almost feels like he’s worried we had a guilty on him with it. But that’s how I feel about his interpretation to our crumbs. I just find it weird we are on such opposite sides of the spectrum with this given combined history.

I’m going to not go into Gamma associatives at this point, but I think there is a plethora of suspicious interactions there.

The manatee vote is absolutely awful. As much as Cabd’s tried to insist that it isn’t similar at all to Yggrasill, I disagree. He had a scumpool in 2512 that as the pre-day elim had multiple townflips in. One of which was Titus, who while not flipping at EOD1 did flip overnight and had multiple people with LESS setup background in the same pool of what happened. It’s really strange to me that Cabd would both not vote no-elim, and then be so singleminded and not consider all options before voting manatee. Manatee, who provides town a second elim and a second chance to hit scum. Who flipped town.

Now, let’s look at how Cabd has approached us today! The main focus of his posting has been us, which is standard. However, it is about our read, getting us to see his alignment. To use a bork turn of phrase, he’s trying to play around this tonally. There is so much focus on hitting the frustration that we can’t see his alignment (which is weird given last he spoke he was scumreading us, despite alluding to the read changing over the course of the day) but no focus on finding the scum if it is outside of him. It feels a lot like shutting down to avoid giving out any more information than anything else to me.

Even the morph interactions on 9/15 feel like Cabd is petitioning fairylit to change my read. There is a good amount of AtE, a lot of the same heartstrings I played myself on the backend of Bloodstained. But then consistently dodges opportunities to talk about the other members of the game- and I realize he is sick and am taking this with a grain of salt, but it’s still concerning. He likened my confidence to Yggdrasil morph, but with worse reads. Despite not commenting on any read but his own. This hyper-fixation on his own play instead of the world around him is concerning.

He even is trying to play a “Explain how scum me would play this role” despite knowing that a supposed scum-Cabd would know his buddies flavor, and could easily make a statement like that that would either A) be claimed with someone or b) be viewed as a red herring altogether. He explicitly said he wanted to play it how Bell should have played it, and I struggle to see why we should townread him for it? For playing the role to the letter how its supposed to be played with no variation, in a game where the entire context lies in variation?

I’ve sat back and let fairylit try to talk to him and get him reimmersed, and all he’s tried to do is “show her the light.” Cabd has shown he knows how to get on her good side, and he’s going all out to do that instead of trying to find the scum that we would supposedly be missing. That’s my problem with his play today, and this all is why I need a second opinion from LLD.

I don’t really have much to say but just look at the stances on everyone and think about what Kate is going for here

[Gamma Emerald]

sigh
I really hoped I could have done better. Wheme is there any way I can change your mind? I feel like Kate is trying to twist my words against me, I admitted to the flavor similarities being a stretch but that boils down to Cabd using vague descriptors

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m currently grappling with the fact that had my vote for Kate been properly counted during the silent vote I probably wouldn’t be in this mess, but even then there’d still have been questions

[Gamma Emerald]

I wouldn’t be receiving such shade for being on Manatee at least

[Gamma Emerald]

It would have been a vote for Wheme in essence anyway

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I’m not already in the doghouse
I still felt rather tepid about pushing you when I posted that, so I decided to fudge my statement

[Gamma Emerald]

she's starting to pick up on mafia stuff which is no bueno until she can contextualize it.

oof btw

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m pretty sure I’ve always maintained the part about the Titus flip. That was why I tried to change votes.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like Dunn could be scum here
I just feel like he’s the designated bus with how withdrawn he is, and Id rather eliminate the real threats first

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes
The application of pressure regarding the guilty just doesn’t check out imo, between voting me instead of Dunn initially and sounding way too assured that Dunnstral’s claim was at all truthful

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll do dunn if I must but that feels like a capitulation

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: dunnstral
I guess I’m not in position to bargain, so I’ll take the first step here.

[Gamma Emerald]

What the fresh hell is this

[Gamma Emerald]

I hate this. I was ready to turn off my brain, and hopefully get results from wheme and kyouko before I had to think again.

Yeah, the night phase was going to coincide with the two days I had the least ability to be present. This is just the worst luck possible. Just as I feel like I can ditch this game for a time it falls right back on me. I feel sick.

[Gamma Emerald]

What the fresh hell is this

What do you think scum did, gamma?

They probably want things to go through on me, because that gives them ability to rectify the numbers. There’s no way they picked me because that would mean giving up on that kill. I think Cabd is the one they chose to predict.
This is a lot to process on top of me trying to set the seeds for my egress from my current living situation.

[Gamma Emerald]

Let’s discuss Gamma’s reaction to the guilty, shall we? He is staunchly in the camp to leave Dunn alive, going so far as to repeatedly attempt to discredit ssbm(4093, 4094, 4193, 4289). This is interesting to me, as when I review Haunted Village, I have Gamma insisting to leave his buddy alive based solely off a fakeclaim, attempting to ignore a crumbed guilty. We also have him saying not to trust us similar to how he tried to make people not trust MurderCat. A similar stance about not trusting someone regarding a townie trying to defend MurderCat. This is an example of Gamma stalling and asking for another day off the guilty, comparable to this, and this. Gamma's recent scumteam is both the person with the guilty and the person trying to see the guilty through! Who's the third? Dunno, you'll have to ask him!

In non-guilty meta data, Gamma pretending to be lost despite a guilty compared to a similar tact pulled here, despite a more drawn out day.

Please read this, LLD. This is the important part of the wall where I point out how Gammas behavior falls perfectly in line with a past game that had a buddy get guiltied. And then ask yourself why Gamma was so concerned about how long the day would last.

Dear god you can’t be serious
THIS EXACT MOMENT IS WHY I WAS CONCERNED WITH HOW LONG THE DAY WAS GOING TO BE.

[Gamma Emerald]

How would you know the day would be extended?

I wouldn’t, that’s the whole point. I was hoping to have some level of reprieve by now

[Gamma Emerald]

But of course you couldn’t abide that, how could I have hoped for that? I’m a damn fool.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m betting you Kate, what with how you immediately tried to twist my concern over the day running too long against me. I have had games fall to pieces while I’ve been MIA multiple times, as town and as scum. I wanted to mitigate that and now it’s blowing up in my face!
My dad had warned me against you on a personal level and while he was definitely off-base there I let that get to me and I overstated too much. I fully expect this day would not have been prolonged had I just kept my trap shut about the exact date of the wedding.

[Gamma Emerald]

What the fresh hell is this

What do you think scum did, gamma?

They probably want things to go through on me, because that gives them ability to rectify the numbers. There’s no way they picked me because that would mean giving up on that kill. I think Cabd is the one they chose to predict.
This is a lot to process on top of me trying to set the seeds for my egress from my current living situation.

I think your team is still us/SSBM. That is confusing when compared with this, because that means you think scum governed a townie despite (in theory) being just one or two elims from winning.

Im not responding to the OOG stuff.

I think your course screams scum motive with how quick you were to continue your crusade, kyouko idk because I think she just fucking hates me for some reason. But neither of those is set in stone, there’s so much going on rn.
The momentum is clearly against me and Cabd though. I know scum want my head, I can’t tell whether Cabd is in on things or not. The one voice I trust the most is the one I can’t even hear because they’re far far away.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nothing really, but I would think anyone would think twice about barreling ahead when faced with a sign saying “if scum can read the room they get free reign of this next elim”
And to talk on some of the actual evidence against me, I’ll admit my play does somewhat resemble Haunted Village but I have been pushing you+kyouko only because of what happened to S_S, and I’ve been clear on that being an issue since my very first post. So you can’t exactly say I’ve been discrediting anyone because of a guilty because my “discrediting” started way before the guilty.

[Gamma Emerald]

I lack the mental or literal bandwidth to handle this
Just vote me already, make the suffering stop.

[Gamma Emerald]

Kyouko your math feels wrong
Keep in mind, the kill from my role is 100% distinct from the NK.

Also if kyouko is scum she’s 100% with one of Kate/Cabd because that “meta tell” declaration reeks of the same stuff I saw in Xenoblade 2 against Cakez, and so if she’s faking it it’s because she’s being told to fake it.

[Gamma Emerald]

For someone who asserts I’m dedicated to discrediting you, you seem to have some snide remark for everything that comes out of my mouth.

[Gamma Emerald]

The one thing keeping me from being sure Kate is scum is the fact I feel like I’m back in my first newbie game where Zyf tore into me with no end in sight but there’s no Infinity324 to help me see the light so I have to scratch and claw and fight this battle all on my own. I’ll take any death as long as it’s not a vote-out here. This is basically the personal hell I dealt with in Smoke Filled Antechamber ramped up to eleven.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: cabd
It’s him and Kyouko. I’m dead certain of this. I was thinking “how long would the timing on the double elim have been, if it were long enough then it makes no sense why I wouldn’t use it after the S_S lim to immediately litigate that vote-out” and I see both Cabd and kyouko arguing this same scum inventor logic that completely undercuts that entire argument before I can get it out of my mouth. IT’S THOSE TWO, IT HAS TO BE!

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I misremembered Cabd’s last post about that as one of yours. So that team guess isn’t locked in but I’m still dead certain Cabd is scum because this entire game I’ve felt like I was being led on by the scum team and that was the shining clue I needed to figure out whodunnit.

[Gamma Emerald]

why...? @wheme
If you're scum it's definitely with cabd, and cabd's the one who got a little to cheeky playing Fin with me

[Gamma Emerald]

I also put off claiming for an incessant amount of time, there would have been plenty of time to process that I had the all-clear to claim.

[Gamma Emerald]

If there’s good evidence towards GiF coming back tomorrow I’ll take the fall but I need something real.
@Luke not really, just saying Cabd’s point is beyond inane, there’s an “if I were scum” that I left out of that post

[Gamma Emerald]

In what sense? You apparently get full role card so like, you know what his role is like?

[Gamma Emerald]

With the amount of KP in this setup, sure
Both LLD and Manatee are roles that would have somewhat telegraphed kills, that’s why Dunn exists
Luke is more of just an anti-swing if he’s scum (tho Luke feels distinctly off my scumdar rn)

I think LLD has a point about cabd being the selection but I don’t really have a firm idea of who his partner is and probably wont until I can see his flip so I think I have to err on the side of caution here
UNVOTE: Cabd for now, will probably vote no elim in a few hours (aka after the wedding has finished)

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

I just read the neighborhood from tarot UPick and yeah that was mostly on melanque
Skitter at least acted semi-natural, even though she did kinda slip up and indicate I was scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll do Luke if you can explain the logic for him being partnered with Cabd

[Gamma Emerald]

I could reasonably envision anyone but you and GiF being his scum partner
Tbh I was initially thinking Kate and Kyouko were more likely but I feel like it’s more likely some who feels a bit warmer in an emotional sense is it, that being Wheme or Luke
And with the genuine searching I saw from Cabd earlier I think Luke is the most logical partner
VOTE: Lukewarm
I basically just talked myself into reaching the same sort of conclusion you did

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m most concerned at how kyouko/Wheme are past Luke in that order

[Gamma Emerald]

Wheme talk to me about the informed part of your role, as detailed as possible (without getting modkilled)

Does it imply you can do things post humously?

...
Don’t answer this.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like spelling that out would be a mistake rn, regardless of Kate’s alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

Who does it help sort?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m pretty certain the remaining scum are Lukewarm and Cabd atp
I called out both Luke and Dunnstral on my Wise Man’s Snare tell, Dunn flipped scum, and I’ve been getting a feeling that I’ve somehow hit the mark this game more recently. Cabd unfortunately put himself in the exact spot he once said to elim like it was a cop guilty. But we’re doing Luke first because there’s no way they predicted he would be the elim.

[Gamma Emerald]

The tell is displaying incongruous gamestate awareness that’s indicative of having a scum PT where you’re being fed intel

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually looking at where I mentioned it again I think I was actually 0/2 because I was probably talking about Toog+DGB despite quoting posts by Dunn+Luke
But I still think the fact a pattern occurred there is indicative of Luke!scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m treating this as gif is out of the fucking game and he’s the one doing this fucking shenanigans

This is an interesting take
I highly doubt GiF is scum but if you’re right about this somehow that might be the case
Though that would make my role feel kinda dumber, barring “death is final?” shenanigans (or maybe the kill triggered by my role is there as a way to completely exterminate someone’s ability to influence the game for good by being an actually-final death?)

Would there be a character from Spirited Away whose powers could be (can leave the main game + can trigger a second elim where if scum can predict the outcome they can govern it)?

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't help but feel like I'm the reason my team lost, given I was swapped for Pooky in Chromatic Ascension and they won pretty squarely

[Gamma Emerald]

that wouldn't have happened if I'd not tried so hard to commandeer the night plan tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that was a massive error on the mod’s side
ROLE COP NEVER DIRECTLY RETURNS ALIGNMENT. The only alignment revelation involved with rolecop should be implicit by revealing fake claims or finding alignment-limited roles.

[Gamma Emerald]

-Swords of Darkness – (Making friends) – At the start of the day Ainz will receive a Day X 1-Shot Neighbouriser Combined Recursive Inventor: During day X, you may PM the mod targeting a player to add them to a neighbourhood and simultaneously grant them a usage of this ability. Any player using this ability will add their target to the same topic. If Unwnd is alive, Unwnd will be added to the PT regardless of who is initially targeted.

That was in Radio Buzz as well LMFAO

[Gamma Emerald]

for the fans