Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[Roden]

VOTE: InnocentVillager

I have a feeling that you are not innocent nor a villager.

[Roden]

Oh that's gonna be confusing

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden
I didn't know the game was bastard...

It's fine, I have a N0 inno on you.

[Roden]

VOTE: Mewtaph

[Roden]

why

don't play the fool with me, you know what you did

Yeah I do :/
VOTE: t3

that's proof of scum guilt
VOTE: t3
we gottem bois

All threads have daytalk

VOTE: T3

[Roden]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Mewtaph

I've found the opportunistic vote
VOTE: Roden

I also have a N0 inno on you.

[Roden]

yes, i did indeed see that

that is scum!t3 because...?

Elim All Liars.

[Roden]

Vibes.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

This isn't as funny the second time unfortunately

[Roden]

What makes you think I'm scum?

[Roden]

I'm just using this game to recalibrate my meta since it's getting annoying/exhausting to have to fake exaggerated tones every game.

[Roden]

Also I didn't dip out of the thread, I'm just at work lol

[Roden]

Kyo you might want to read post #2

[Roden]

Lol

[Roden]

I'm pretty sure Dwlee saw the mod confirm, since they joked about this being a bastard game when they voted me

[Roden]

I think Margot can prove her townie-ness with some time if she is town, in the game I just played with her she had a really strong town game and was a consensus town read after Day 1.

[Roden]

This is my second IC game in a row funnily enough, but I haven't seen a Day 1 IC until now. Idk what this implies for the set up though.

[Roden]

Roden, can you confirm the n0 inno on Dwlee? I am taking it as written, but don't understand the mechanics of how that would work, so just wanted to double check

Oh uh, I don't have any inno's, sorry that was a joke since they voted me. If I ever have a real inno or guilty claim I'll always reiterate that it's actually serious.

[Roden]

I do think your reads list comes from a town mind set though Margot.

[Roden]

it was a complete joke not a reaction test, but kyo miserably failed the reaction test.

though what's hilarious is that i actually kinda don't like this so fuck me i guess

town

why?

I think T3 saying Kyo failed the reaction test means she's just town. Town doesn't give a shit about looking good, but scum sure does.

[Roden]

T3's generally low activity is also just pinging me in general right now. I know he tends to lay low when he gets pressure as scum, but fights and hyper posts when he's town. He's even said similarly in past games.

[Roden]

theoretical disagree on "town doesn't care about looking good", but that's besides the point now - do you think kyouko was aware that her push on t3 was shaky and so scum!her wouldn't have made it in the first place? because it seemed to me like she was convinced her push was great and made sense so dunno if i agree there

I think Kyo just makes a lot of pushes in general, regardless of the substance of it. I do think she was defensive of her push on T3 though, which in hindsight makes me more hesitant to town read her. I've seen town!Kyo defend her pushes against town!me before so maybe it's NAI, but I haven't seen her scum games yet so idk for sure on that.

[Roden]

T3's generally low activity is also just pinging me in general right now. I know he tends to lay low when he gets pressure as scum, but fights and hyper posts when he's town. He's even said similarly in past games.

On this, I just don't think their energy is allegiance indicative. I think they are pretty low energy generally. They were a Town PR in another game I played with them recently and their energy was at about the same level, before and after they had outed themself

That's a fair point.

[Roden]

He's even said similarly in past games.

haven't heard this one before, mind linking the source?

i'm open to the idea of t3 being scum, hell i sure don't townread him, but the resons that kyouko had for pushing him were bad >_>

Also I hard lurk through pressure as scum.

Large Normal 235.

[Roden]

My viewpoint of "town vs scum caring about looking good" mainly comes from my own scum play style, but also something I've noticed in other players. For instance, Titus isn't in this game, but every time I've played with her I notice that she hunts for that town cred ASAP when scum and is a lot more casual D1 when town.

With Kyouko, I haven't really noticed her ever reach for town cred when town. She mainly just pokes and prods, and then starts walling when she's got a better grasp of the game state. I'd like to see one of her scum games though to note the differences.

[Roden]

He's even said similarly in past games.

haven't heard this one before, mind linking the source?

i'm open to the idea of t3 being scum, hell i sure don't townread him, but the resons that kyouko had for pushing him were bad >_>

Also I hard lurk through pressure as scum.

Large Normal 235.

T3 hard lurked through everything, pressure or otherwise, after d1 in Newbie 2076

True, but he also just disengaged hard and got bored. It was less lurking and more just doing the bare minimum after a certain point.

[Roden]

I could be wrong about Kyo.

[Roden]

With Kyouko, I haven't really noticed her ever reach for town cred when town. She mainly just pokes and prods, and then starts walling when she's got a better grasp of the game state. I'd like to see one of her scum games though to note the differences.

my immediate reaction was due to me being a player who highly cares about my own image as either alignment. then gets into shitfights with people who start accusing me of being scum because i care about how i look. since apparently not wanting to get yourself yeeted and directly hurt your own win condition is solely a scum trait. >_> /rant

anyway, haven't played with kyouko, so dunno about the meta there. though i'm sure there are players who don't reach for towncred as either alignment, so i'm not taking that as a surefire sign she's town.

God I feel that in my soul.

And I do think that's fair, I can't say with actual confidence that she's town.

[Roden]

Read-list (in no particular order):

Roden

Datisi

datsi

T3

N_M
Aris
CO
iv

Getting a feeling that there is at least one scum in this list:

MR
Mew
Dwlee

ssbm

I think you're good at vibing out scum, so I'll trust this list if we can sort you as town.

[Roden]

Are you scum

[Roden]

to clear up the thing in 272:

i expressed myself a bit confusingly in 215. at the time of making both 215/208, i did believe you were making up your conviction about t3 being scum because of the fakeclaim (i no longer necessarily think so, mainly bc of your ic push, but that's besides the point right now). 215 isn't a contradiction to that, it was meant to be taken as "i think that kyouko, if she's scum, believes her t3 push to be townie-looking, therefore the

'she's not scum because she doesn't care about how she looks'

read doesn't apply to her there".

like, me saying "she was convinced her push was great and made sense" meant that i thought you believed that push would make sense from an outside perspective and would make people townread you / not think you're shitpushing,

not

that you genuinely believed t3 was scum because of his fakeclaim.

This makes a lot of sense and feels like a very townie analysis.

[Roden]

yes and no - i know iv *hates* playing scum, and yesterday me/dwlee/datsi/iv all came out of a game where iv was scum soloing and he hated it so. my guess is that if he rolled scum twice in a row, it's likely he's exhausted from it and has no willpower to post.

See this sucks because I don't want to read IV this way but also I can't ignore this

there's been times where i rolled scum multiple games in a row and it made me want to move to the mountains with no access to internet, but it happens sometimes and it's a sucks2bu situation and it sucks overall but like, i can't simply just ignore it because i've seen first hand how much iv hates playing scum so

i know it's not a slam-dunk because town!iv also sometimes lurks and real-life is a thing and blah blah but like, i can't just ignore it >_>

I just had four newbie scum games in a row so I can definitely attest to this mindset. I like playing scum but it's so mentally draining to roll scum multiple times in a row.

[Roden]

it was a complete joke not a reaction test, but kyo miserably failed the reaction test.

though what's hilarious is that i actually kinda don't like this so fuck me i guess

town

why?

I think T3 saying Kyo failed the reaction test means she's just town. Town doesn't give a shit about looking good, but scum sure does.

I thought the opposite.

DkKoba

said one of our previous games where

ssbm

was scum that they're flat as scum (meant weird pushes as strongly), I'm seeing this here.

After browsing through her scum games, I'm really starting to feel this is true.

[Roden]

Kyouko do you have any reads besides T3? Same for Mew, do you have any reads?

[Roden]

IV's posts are meh.

Kyo is looking a little townier.

IV/Mew/deep wolf scum team?

[Roden]

Tonally Salsa feels town now that I know her post style.

[Roden]

I still think kyo is scum.
Practically all the game is just Salsa spam

Can you elaborate?

[Roden]

T3 is probably town for looking scummy.

[Roden]

Or T3 and Kyouko told each other to start posting more in their PT so that they don't get sus'd for low activity.

[Roden]

VOTE: Mew

[Roden]

also i still think gamma is probably mafia and maybe not with NM

I'm too lazy to figure out who #3 is can we just kill t3

I'm also ok with killing NM now that I think about it some more.

there is some chance he is mafia and if he is town it is ok since he usually scumsides anyway so it's not really a loss if we flip town NM

You think Gamma is scum and NM is town, so you want to vote NM...?

[Roden]

I know what you mean about NM, unfortunately.

What's your scum case on Gamma? I'm not seeing much in your ISO besides a gut feeling and an interaction with NM.

[Roden]

VOTE: innocentvillager

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

Word of warning, NM loves to hammer at E-1.

[Roden]

I can't really read IV's rebuttal as town, since it was just jam packed with AtE with not much actual counter argument to what Datisi was actually accusing him of. At this point though I'm fine with leaving him be since he's not really playing and just arguing. And apparently still not caught up.

Between T3 and Margot I town read Margot more, so I'm fine with voting T3. However Mew is still pinging me, his responses to everything feel more like he's just trying to placate everyone who's pressuring him, and just generally trying to come off as non-aggressive and non-threatening as possible.

VOTE: T3

For now I'll go here.

[Roden]

But town likes to claim scum and shit push me when I'm not confirmed inno

[Roden]

But town likes to claim scum and shit push me when I'm not confirmed inno

I think your playstyle is pretty divergent and fairly easy to read

That's what I keep saying lol

[Roden]

CAN I METADIVE DWLEE
THE SEQUEL

O SHIT I MIGHT HAVE FOUND A TELL

According to the tell, you are town.

I really don't want to reveal this tell because this is the holy grail of meta tells (note that Dwlee has no scumgames since Open Draft so this tell might have gone away)

Last time T3 tried to meta dive people he ended up being scum who was just TMI'ing who town was while bussing his scum buddy.

[Roden]

i don't see any remorse from you for your actions despite other people having pointed out NM's tendencies

What the fuck kind of statement is this

[Roden]

I also don't buy that IV "forgot about this game" when you have to confirm via PM that you know your role and are still available to play, and you then receive another PM to let you know that D1 has officially started.

[Roden]

Literally every single thing AtE has been saying is extremely charged with AtE and feels super manipulative and gaslighty

[Roden]

Literally every single thing IV has been saying is extremely charged with AtE and feels super manipulative and gaslighty

EBWOP

[Roden]

VOTE: IV

[Roden]

I'm still not sure what the case on Datsi/Gamma is besides gut feeling and the NM interaction

[Roden]

Alright. I've been hesitant to town read you but your tone has felt a lot more townie has the game goes on, so I'll take the gut read at face value for now.

At this point the only people I'm not town reading are CO, IV, T3, and Mew. I doubt all three scum are in this group though, and could consider Gamma since they're only Null at best for me right now.

[Roden]

His frustration doesn’t feel warped though
When I express my emotions as scum I always present my real emotions just molded to suit my agenda somewhat

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

I literally did the same thing as scum in Radio Buzz though, and it saved the slot from elimination for several Day phases after I replaced out.

[Roden]

T3 is also listed twice

[Roden]

There isn't much of a case, three scum read players are just consolidating their votes on Margot.

[Roden]

I don't have a lot of experience playing with IV so I am kind of relying on your experience here, however I don't think he's posted anything that makes me think he is trying to be active in advancing the game state - it's mostly "how dare you vote me" AtE which is very bleh to me.

Exactly why we need to run him up and get an actual claim out of him. I don't like that Mew and T3 wanted IV out until he was brought into claim range, but then got cold feet and swapped over to Margot therefore making all of their pressure pointless and showy. If they want to keep fake pressuring people we can 100% just vote T3 or Mew instead, as I don't see any reason to vote out Margot before any of the three that are voting her.

[Roden]

IV also just never goes to ELo without a confirmed inno on him, because if he's town then he'll be mis-elim bait for the rest of the game.

[Roden]

And Roden, you can discredit the people voting Margot but you know that calling that wagon the scum team is incredulous. Or maybe it's not, maybe you really think that all three of us are scum waging Margot but if you think that lol whatever.

Explain where I said all three of you were the scum team, where what I said was a discredit, and where what I said was incorrect.

[Roden]

IV also just never goes to ELo without a confirmed inno on him, because if he's town then he'll be mis-elim bait for the rest of the game.

Why? So because there are people scumreading IV suddenly his longevity in the game should be relegated to "doesn't reach late game"? That's the kind of policy that N_M should have except not even because IV has done enough readable things to be read. If you don't have a take on IV after what they've done today that seems crazy to me.

I gave my take on IV. He's done fuck all to scum hunt or solve the game, he's AtE'd us all to hell and back, and he's been wagon'd twice and has had immediate massive resistance to said wagons each time.

[Roden]

There isn't much of a case, three scum read players are just consolidating their votes on Margot.

This post right here. But in any case what use is a back and forth between me and IC really going to accomplish? Particularly because you've been quite deeply set in scumreading me this game. If you're going to discredit what I do then yes it is a bit of a problem on my end and I'm going to at least comment on the fact that you're actively discrediting my slot (discredited more than just once). Do I actually think this back and forth is very productive? No, not really.

This post wasn't a scum team accusation, a discredit, or factually incorrect. If you think it is then maybe you're perspective slipping.

What makes you think I'm "deeply set" in scum reading you? I haven't even cased you, yet you seem more upset with me than the people who actually have done so.

[Roden]

I never said wagon resistance was a scum tell.

[Roden]

I don't have a lot of experience playing with IV so I am kind of relying on your experience here, however I don't think he's posted anything that makes me think he is trying to be active in advancing the game state - it's mostly "how dare you vote me" AtE which is very bleh to me.

Exactly why we need to run him up and get an actual claim out of him. I don't like that Mew and T3 wanted IV out until he was brought into claim range, but then got cold feet and swapped over to Margot therefore making all of their pressure pointless and showy. If they want to keep fake pressuring people we can 100% just vote T3 or Mew instead, as I don't see any reason to vote out Margot before any of the three that are voting her.

Fake pressuring people. Alright, nah. I didn't even want IV out so check your narrative. Except it's not even a narrative because you're IC, you're just wrong. Sigh.

There isn't much of a case, three scum read players are just consolidating their votes on Margot.

This post right here. But in any case what use is a back and forth between me and IC really going to accomplish? Particularly because you've been quite deeply set in scumreading me this game. If you're going to discredit what I do then yes it is a bit of a problem on my end and I'm going to at least comment on the fact that you're actively discrediting my slot (discredited more than just once). Do I actually think this back and forth is very productive? No, not really.

IV also just never goes to ELo without a confirmed inno on him, because if he's town then he'll be mis-elim bait for the rest of the game.

Why? So because there are people scumreading IV suddenly his longevity in the game should be relegated to "doesn't reach late game"? That's the kind of policy that N_M should have except not even because IV has done enough readable things to be read. If you don't have a take on IV after what they've done today that seems crazy to me.

I gave my take on IV. He's done fuck all to scum hunt or solve the game, he's AtE'd us all to hell and back, and he's been wagon'd twice and has had immediate massive resistance to said wagons each time.

Massive resistance is a bit of a retell but I'll just let this sit. I'll restate: I don't think this is very productive. We're just going to have to agree to disagree and depending on how other players respond to this then I may have to revisit what was said here.

Thinking on it more, I don't really like your perspective here. You're accusing me of discrediting you...and then immediately discredit the only conftown in the game and tell me I'm wrong without even bothering to explain how or why. Consistently trying to shut down discussion with me because I'm an IC is also really weird and low key just anti-town. I'm the only player in the game you should know isn't lying to you or spinning a narrative, which you even state. So why would you avoid trying to discuss the game with the only person you can trust? Why do you prefer to argue with non-conftown players with scum read you?

It just sounds like you're frustrated that you can't OMGUS me. If the roles were reversed I'd want to convince an IC that I was town, not discredit them and tell them to stop talking to me. Your implied thought process here just doesn't sit right with me.

[Roden]

???

Are you an alt? This is literally the first game I've ever interacted with you but your over the top aggression suggests otherwise.

[Roden]

I really don't know how you expect me to respond here. This is such a bizarre interaction, I've been rereading our exchange trying to figure out what I said or did that could've caused your reaction but I honestly just don't know what it could be. And asking me not to interact with you is just bad for the game because you're still trying to shut down my scum reads from going through.

You've made it clear that your issue is specifically and personally with me, and if you're not gonna clarify what the problem is then we're at a bit of an impasse. Because I don't want to be a dick but we're kind of playing a game where we have to interact.

[Roden]

:/

I'm hesitant to take this at face value, since a scum player pulled something similar with me before to get out of a scum read and then went on to win the game. Idk. If this is real then I'll just take it as a town tell for now and be real disappointed if this ends up being otherwise.

[Roden]

This at least feels more genuine than IV's response.

[Roden]

It a sort of hitting-your-head-against-a-wall tone I feel like scum typically display when trying to sway an IC or pseudo-IC

tbh not trying to be mean but i find roden pretty annoying (just this game nothing personal) and i kind of vibed with Mew's sentiment myself so i don't see it as scummy. like i just don't really want to interact with him because he's just been dead set on voteparking me, claiming the only thing i do is AtE making it seem like im some super scum for that, taking potshots at me, calling me elim-bait etc. and ari just gets to sheep him because he's IC and i don't really feel like i can do anything about this situation. idk im in kind of a unique spot for him tho

You literally haven't even attempted to talk to me yet. Saying I'm annoying for making my case on you is just wild if you aren't going to do anything to convince me I'm wrong. Especially when all you've done is complain about Datisi and Margot.

[Roden]

I genuinely don't understand why you and Mew are getting so offended about getting scum read in a game of Mafia? Like dude just fucking talk to me first at least.

[Roden]

VOTE: NM

I don't even know anymore. Maybe he's just laying low since from his point of view the game went full TvT.

[Roden]

Unless the exact scum team is Margot/Kyouko/T3, somebody's wrong/lying about their reads, because everyone else is either town read by multiple people or yelling at me for playing the game and scum reading them.

[Roden]

And Roden, you can discredit the people voting Margot but you know that calling that wagon the scum team is incredulous. Or maybe it's not, maybe you really think that all three of us are scum waging Margot but if you think that lol whatever.

This is kinda hypocritical in retrospect because this was exactly why T3 and Margot got paired up when they voted to put IV at E-1.

[Roden]

VOTE: Margot

Kinda losing motivation this game tbh. Genuinely hope scum just kills me because this game is becoming so unnecessarily unfun.

[Roden]

It a sort of hitting-your-head-against-a-wall tone I feel like scum typically display when trying to sway an IC or pseudo-IC

tbh not trying to be mean but i find roden pretty annoying (just this game nothing personal) and i kind of vibed with Mew's sentiment myself so i don't see it as scummy. like i just don't really want to interact with him because he's just been dead set on voteparking me, claiming the only thing i do is AtE making it seem like im some super scum for that, taking potshots at me, calling me elim-bait etc. and ari just gets to sheep him because he's IC and i don't really feel like i can do anything about this situation. idk im in kind of a unique spot for him tho

You literally haven't even attempted to talk to me yet. Saying I'm annoying for making my case on you is just wild if you aren't going to do anything to convince me I'm wrong. Especially when all you've done is complain about Datisi and Margot.

I want to add that I never parked my vote on you. This is exactly why I think you're playing the victim and being manipulative, because it's clear I've been moving my vote around all game.

[Roden]

It a sort of hitting-your-head-against-a-wall tone I feel like scum typically display when trying to sway an IC or pseudo-IC

tbh not trying to be mean but i find roden pretty annoying (just this game nothing personal) and i kind of vibed with Mew's sentiment myself so i don't see it as scummy. like i just don't really want to interact with him because he's just been dead set on voteparking me, claiming the only thing i do is AtE making it seem like im some super scum for that, taking potshots at me, calling me elim-bait etc. and ari just gets to sheep him because he's IC and i don't really feel like i can do anything about this situation. idk im in kind of a unique spot for him tho

You literally haven't even attempted to talk to me yet. Saying I'm annoying for making my case on you is just wild if you aren't going to do anything to convince me I'm wrong. Especially when all you've done is complain about Datisi and Margot.

i mean you haven't attempted to talk to me either and everytime you mention me it feels like you're potshotting me hard

ever since you last voted me you kept your vote on me pretty consistently so it feels like you're set on voteparking me, idk why you think im misrepping you there? and you even called me elimbait that never ever makes it to elo so?

im not trying to be a dick sorry if ive coming off as one it's just how i felt

What does it matter that I haven't attempted to talk to you? You're the one who has a problem with me without even attempting to have an actual conversation with me. My "potshots" are just me making comments and detailing my thought process. You've been welcome to debate with me this entire time and instead you just call me annoying and try to piggy back Mew's reasoning for avoiding talking to me.

Look at my ISO and vote history if you really think I was just parking my vote on you. And I do think you're mis-elim bait if you're town, what makes you disagree? If we go three days without eliminating scum and you end up in ELo, do you really think you're not getting voted out?

[Roden]

Honestly I have no idea why IV is only annoyed by me when I'm not even the only person who's scum read them or voted them. Even when angry at Datisi, he still wasn't so annoyed that he refused to talk with him. Mew gave a concrete reason for why my posting set him off, but IV just seems to be piggy backing off that idea ("you're annoying and I'm not gonna talk to you!!!") without giving a substantial reason. He's not cutting off communication for the sake of his mental state, he just doesn't like that I scum read him and saw that Mew successfully got me to back off using that particular method.

[Roden]

lmao I forgot about this game oop

why are there 3 votes on me? u n a c c e p t a b l e !!

oh it’s the scumteam nvm ez gg

VOTE: Datsii

soo what’s going on guys anything interesting happen or nah

Hi IV can you give real reads? Thank

I just got here man

they will come

in due time

is this what it’s like to do an Ico style catchup? woww

anyways back to work I got through a very productive 5 pages

scum are Datisi salsa and margot
Town are dwlee mewtaph and gamma

After ISO diving IV, his first round of posts feel really off and I think I know why. He claims to forget about the game and only catches up to page 5, yet he knows how many votes he has and who's voting him. It somehow only takes him a minute to say he forgot about the game and then learn who's voting him (and therefore also knows the scum team apparently), but then two more minutes later he asks about what's happening in the game and claims that he only just arrived and doesn't have real reads yet.

His introductory posts are 100% fabricated and he needs to explain why.

[Roden]

lol roden

If you just clicked on the post in the iso

You would see that the vc is directly above my post...

And?

idk it just feels you interpret all of my actions as uncharitably as possible and it’s like I don’t even know what to say back why should I want to argue with the IC. I’m sorry That I’m being irrational and I’ll try to engage you even if I feel you are being unfair

I'm not interpreting your actions uncharitable, you're legitimately just doing very scummy things and it's hard to look past that. Singling me out as being unfair when, again,

I'm not the only person scum reading you or voting you,

doesn't sit right.

and it’s something I’ve obviously been feeling this whole time since I didn’t interact with you why are you pushing the narrative that I did it after?

*the narrative that I only made it up after seeing mew say it?

How is it obvious when you literally never said anything until Mew did? Why is it so upsetting to you that I scum read you yet literally nobody else's opinions on you seem to affect you nearly as deeply?

[Roden]

why do you two keep calling me manipulative

I believe the emotions you put into the thread are carefully curated to manipulate the people reading them and not geniune.

it’s just frustrating to be continually just blanketly called manipulative when it’s literally not what I’m doing

I find it hard to believe that you've been on this site for nine years and never once have been told that your posts come off as manipulative. Your confusion here just doesn't make sense.

I’m already tired of this

can we get back to the game or do we still need to spend time on this?

This is part of the game?

And I do think you're mis-elim bait if you're town, what makes you disagree? If we go three days without eliminating scum and you end up in ELo, do you really think you're not getting voted out?

i have no idea why you think that and I have no idea why you think I should think that

Because if a major scum read avoids getting voted out for three consecutive days and instead pushes through three mis-elims, that might be a red flag. I don't think what I'm saying here is a particularly farfetched thought process.

[Roden]

do I have to use the word “mental state” explicitly in order to have an emotional reason to not want to interact with you? I don’t, I found your potshots at me annoying and I didn’t want to respond exactly because we have discussion like this that are not making the game fun anymore for either of us

you are the IC and you obviously seem really set on me as scum I’m not sure why you keep trying to suggest otherwise

and it’s something I’ve obviously been feeling this whole time since I didn’t interact with you why are you pushing the narrative that I did it after?

I'm so fucking confused. Why are you a playing a game where people have to argue and lie and confront each other if it upsets you so much? Why are you only mad at me specifically? This is just baffling to me, I've never seen this before.

You keep complaining that I'm set on you as scum yet I'm not even voting you right now and you're far from my only scum read. You're so tunneled on me and what I think and I don't get it.

[Roden]

I really don't know what you want from me. Fuck it, whatever, I'll just town lock you forever since I'm apparently an asshole if I don't.

[Roden]

I just, don't understand how you came to the conclusion that cutting off communication with somebody scum reading you was a better response than just defending yourself and showcasing why you're town. In a game about communication. I just don't get it.

[Roden]

Here's where I'm at. I have a read on Mewtaph, Datsi and InnocentVillager at the moment. How do you feel about those slots Roden?

Datsi is Null, he's playing different from what I've seen in his town games but nothing stands out as particularly scummy.

Mew and IV are lock town. By claiming my scum read on them is damaging to their mental health, I don't really have a choice but to assume they're town. If they flip scum in the end then I'll just black list them, I don't have any tolerance for people who would lie about something as serious as that just to avoid losing a game.

[Roden]

like honestly this game is not playable if every town player says "you can't suspect me because I can't handle being scumread for mental health reasons." and scum are what, not allowed to say that because they'll be ostracized and blacklisted?

that's not even a mafia game.

I don't disagree here, but I didn't take it to this point. I literally have no idea what I'm supposed to do here.

I don't think either of them have claimed being scum read is damaging to their mental health and the line of thought is dangerously close to making this game unplayable

and I don't think either Mewtaph or IV have said anything approaching "you can't suspect me because I can't handle it for mental health reasons."

...Except they did.

I feel like communicating with you further is anti-town. I don't care if you scumread me for it, communicating with you feels shit and I'd rather not do it.

You are part of that reason, by the way. Not the IC part.

And this is exactly why I didn't want to communicate with your slot by the way. But go on.

Mmm, you may have hit a nerve that isn't specific to you. I apologize if it comes off as aggressive, but yes. Can we leave this for now, please? If you push my slot I'm fine with it but I don't really feel like interacting with you is best for my general state right now.

It a sort of hitting-your-head-against-a-wall tone I feel like scum typically display when trying to sway an IC or pseudo-IC

tbh not trying to be mean but i find roden pretty annoying (just this game nothing personal) and i kind of vibed with Mew's sentiment myself so i don't see it as scummy. like i just don't really want to interact with him because he's just been dead set on voteparking me, claiming the only thing i do is AtE making it seem like im some super scum for that, taking potshots at me, calling me elim-bait etc. and ari just gets to sheep him because he's IC and i don't really feel like i can do anything about this situation. idk im in kind of a unique spot for him tho

do I have to use the word “mental state” explicitly in order to have an emotional reason to not want to interact with you? I don’t, I found your potshots at me annoying and I didn’t want to respond exactly because we have discussion like this that are not making the game fun anymore for either of us

you are the IC and you obviously seem really set on me as scum I’m not sure why you keep trying to suggest otherwise

and it’s something I’ve obviously been feeling this whole time since I didn’t interact with you why are you pushing the narrative that I did it after?

[Roden]

Is someone's emotional state not a part of their mental health?

[Roden]

faking an emotional response is a standard part of a social deduction game,

if you say that emotions can't be faked and you will never play with someone who is faking an emotional response then um that's not really playing mafia?

If anyone actually has mental health issues due to playing this game, I would assume they would just replace out in order to prioritize their actual well-being over a silly text based game.

Nothing you're saying here is wrong. That's not the issue.

I'm getting repeatedly told by two different players that they refuse to talk to me, and imply I've done or said something genuinely damaging. Faking an emotional response, and claiming harm to one's emotional state, are just two completely different things and takes this game to a place that makes it impossible for me to actually play.

Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?

[Roden]

And yes, I assume someone would just replace out as well. But I haven't mentioned that since I'm not sure if that's against the rules or not.

[Roden]

I'm getting repeatedly told by two different players that they refuse to talk to me, and imply I've done or said something genuinely damaging. Faking an emotional response, and claiming harm to one's emotional state, are just two completely different things and takes this game to a place that makes it impossible for me to actually play.

Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?

I do not think either of them have claimed that they have been mentally harmed by your actions in this game.

I also don't think your actions would lead to mental harm of anyone, I don't think any of your actions have crossed that particular line.

Expressing suspicion of people is just how the game is played.

Claiming that someone's suspicion of you has caused you serious mental harm is not.

I just find it hard to interpret what they've said any other way, and neither of them have done or said anything to course correct or explain what the core problem is. This is exactly why I said IV is being manipulative, but he keeps denying it, and Datisi saying he doesn't see it either means I'm either actually in the wrong or I'm being very heavily gaslit.

[Roden]

Dwlee sheeping/palling somebody early into Day 1 is actually not really atypical for them. I wouldn't call it a hard town tell, but the last two games I scum read them for that it turned out they were town.

I kinda want to vote Datsi if anything. I feel like he's been coasting, and he hasn't been nearly as inquisitive as he usually is.

[Roden]

VOTE: T3

[Roden]

Can we get one more vote on T3? We need to have enough time to pick someone else in case he claims a believable PR.

[Roden]

He's actually only at E-2 with your vote. Currently only four people are voting him.

[Roden]

I'm willing to vote Kyo, but she only has two votes on her now, and getting two more people to vote with me sounds impossible if we can't even get one more vote on T3.

[Roden]

VOTE: Innocent Villager

Not Kyo? What changed?

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

I would vote but it would put IV at E-1.

[Roden]

Oh whoops, forgot that NM changed his vote.

VOTE: IV

[Roden]

Could this be a repeat of Radio Buzz D1?

I could see it, honestly.

[Roden]

Well...

At least I can finally use this game as a reference.

[Roden]

I kinda understand the frustration with Salsa winning because everyone in the dead thread saw her get caught over a month ago, but then all of the alive players just forgot once Kyouko died. Like, Salsa still deserves the win, absolutely, but she 100% did get caught. Had you all stuck with the plan and voted Chaos > Salsa after taking out Margot, which Kyouko noted was always a guaranteed win since only a Datisi/Ari scum team could disrupt that, the game would've been much simpler.

Also Ari didn't play nearly as bad as was implied by the live players and honestly should've been considered locktown after making sure the IV wagon stayed the course. It's completely unreasonable to think she bussed IV when he was set to survive the day until her intervention. I genuinely believe this vote sealed the win for scum because it took away the only safety cushion town had.

Scum ultimately do deserve this win though since Margot played exceptionally well and likely would've endgamed with Salsa had she not botched her claim. So in the alternate universe where that never went wrong, the scum team still wins anyway, we just don't have to wait an extra month in the dead thread.

[Roden]

I think the hop on mewtaph is opportunistic, your posts thus far are shorter than I expect to see out of town!you, though maybe it's too
early to tell on that front.

I also feel like you sort of egged on the vote on T3 but when datisi began questioning it you big dipped on the thread. This could be a coincidence though and primarily I'm voting you because the mewtaph vote looks opportunistic.

Also I'm saving this post as my sole counter argument any time anyone tries to meta read or tone read me as scum.