Mini 2237: Scarlet Witch Alternate Reality Mafia - Game Over

[Hiraki]

ego post - how are we at 5 pages?

[Hiraki]

Quick!

Let's put NM on E-1 so he will selfhammer!
VOTE: Not_Mafia

bad

Town.

???

Scum?

similar

Scum.

not bad

Also, have a readslist.

Enchant

Not_Mafia

T3
cyrus62

CheekyTeeky
Guillotina
Galron

Zyla
MegAzumarill
Hiraki

Roden

Shrek

Town townread lean town nulltown null scumread/scumlean scum.

why?

Why NM is town for post he does every game?

very bad

It's easy to make a reads list page 1 when you're scum.

not as bad but not good

Just vote her outta here, buddies likely above null.

weird

25 is townpings

But if it's your style of game, i am not gonna argue.

says person who continues to try and argue it through all of his posts so far

T3 is gonna be my confidante - i can feel it

Bold assumption

???

VOTE: t3 I think t3 is scum here he's already making excuse to scum read people but enchant could also be scum. Hoping for a flash elemation.

????

T3 is just my rvs.

super bad

you wanted a flash elemation on not_mafia hoping they would self hammer and I am stating why I won't vote there. Also starting a convo with you. Would you rather I push you?

agreed with this - the fact that enchant somehow thinks his play in this game is not a sole obsession of N_M is really disjointed. i'm starting to wonder if there's a reason for this.

after a pretty rough start, this is a great line of questioning from cyrus

i feel like mistina's reads are to bait out scums poor reactions to it tbh, not actually serious

Every game I play with her she does these reads as scum or town basically it's just where she feels people are at so far I'm pretty sure it's nai regardless. But that doesn't mean I dislike it.

So you admit that it's NAI for Mastina and yet you'd quick hammer her because you dont like her style.

If you are town you should be policy yote

If you are scum then you should be yeeted.

Scum

Rode
Cyrus




This game is gonna be easy

yikes

[Hiraki]

The way Roden is playing rn and actively gunning for people for shit reasons means he's probably scum. I also get why mastina says Roden feels different to Yakra.

old man thinks it's just reaching rather than scum reaching. could be wrong later tho. i see worse people here for now

[Hiraki]

Vote: Enchant

[Hiraki]

Enchant has 5 posts and 4 are RVS. What did you find scummy?

they're the exact sort of bad RVS posts that i think actually have a very decent chance of scumtelling

- goes for the "haha public opinion am i right" sort of vibes
- doesn't relay any information
- tries to act like they're not doing exactly what they're doing

sure - could be wrong here but i'm betting on me

FLESHWAGON

what does this mean?

after reading page 8, i agree that cyrus is LHF. can't 100% say he's town though so if there's a vig...

I can also save everyone's time and claim now if you guys really want to waste time pushing me as a mis-elim.

No don't do that. You could make this more productive by focusing on others instead of being focusing on yourself. It seems like you're townreading everyone pushing you by assuming they're wasting time instead of pushing ulterior motives.

great post

[Hiraki]

how could the rule be so new to such a ridiculously talented player?

[Hiraki]

Ngl I don't think Cheeky is town though.

wanna go into it more or are you just dropping it down and letting it roll

[Hiraki]

i don't think any of 245 is scum-aligned but i think it's terrible logic overall. zero explanation of a take? really? isn't that why i asked you for

your

take? what would cheeky say to satisfy you? i can go one by one but it's not worth my time

pre-edit:

Because talent has nothing to do with knowledge.

...so you just admitted that you're just lucky? yikes

[Hiraki]

what would cheeky say to satisfy you?

just to be super clear here - this is in response to the point that this post has zero explanation -

For the record I do not support the roden wagon right now.
This feels very apart from his scum play that I am used to. (Haven't had any personal experience with town!roden but have played with scum! Roden a few times.)

I only have that one scum game to go off and I'm not seeing anything that different contrary to Shrek.

this post is just talking about meta - what would you want? a meta case? would that convince you considering that you think the person is scum for already independent reasons?

[Hiraki]

you're out here throwing these dumb weird ego jabs and you can't take a pinch? understood for next time, i guess

[Hiraki]

you're out here throwing these dumb weird ego jabs and you can't take a pinch? understood for next time, i guess

Im sorry that you call my confidence ego. Don't let my shine opaque yours.

don't worry - you're doing a great job of making sure that can't happen so far

I don't think I'm asking for a whole lot for her to explain what she sees as scummy behavior.

where did you do this?

[Hiraki]

Just now?

my issue is that you said he was scum, didn't say anything, and it took

me

to ask you about it to then ask cheeky about it. doesn't that seem just a tad bit convoluted?

[Hiraki]

it's not really worth continuing this back and forth though - i don't think your scumread on cheeky is very genuine and i'll just note that for later

[Hiraki]

T3 could be scum, you cant scum read someone arriving at the same conclusion that you did, about the same player, when that someone concluded it before you. It does not make sense, it's a fake push.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Hiraki]

i dont think guillotina flips red but if there's a vig, i think you know what to do

[Hiraki]

i am telling them to shoot you

[Hiraki]

i am telling them to shoot you

Even though you say i will not flip red?

yep

i am telling them to shoot you

cuse town want town to shoot town sure i think this is a bad post.

the person who after 5 pages we have to have a discussion about ego from multiple people and has a wagon for super questionable reasons (ie there's no reason for it to really be there but it's pretty obvious why it's there)?

it's anti-town play at the very best and extremely distracting from the focus of the game

Killing me while townreading me is play to lose or you are just scum.

1) not townreading you
2) don't lecture me on rules thanks

[Hiraki]

and has a wagon for super questionable reasons

in hindsight, i don't like this phrasing but i think the gist is there that none of the votes on guillotina are convincing or feel genuine

[Hiraki]

never

[Hiraki]

i mean i won't stop you - i just think it's more likely to be bait at this point. i could be wrong and it could even be artificial bait but i don't have enough care to look into that further unless something else pops up

[Hiraki]

i also don't see the benefit of pressuring guillotina versus half of the game which has said less than a few posts (not nudging but i like when things get moving)

[Hiraki]

im not ruling anything out after looking at the game advertisement tbh. setup is not my strong suit though.

[Hiraki]

why do you care?

[Hiraki]

what if i told you that i wouldn't mind a roden elim?

[Hiraki]

i think it's just weird that you were pairing me with roden tbh - is it just because i said bad things about him but then shifted onto enchant? i don't like either slot, it's just that one is actively lurking versus the other who just isn't saying anything good

[Hiraki]

I actually agree with a lot of what mastina is saying even if it means my time is potentially limited by the ordering. My only issue is that I think some of the callouts for lock-town are super early but I'm sure that mastina also knows that.

[Hiraki]

woah cake

[Hiraki]

I know I sound like a super old man here but I still don't understand why anyone is okay with giving Enchant as big as a pass. We're 20 pages into the game, N_M has given more content & he's posting elsewhere on the site.

[Hiraki]

I don't see a scenario - unless Vision/Wanda have needlessly complicated powers - where Vision/Wanda are the bad guys in the game. Unless the whole point of the game is that since the townies are based off of Westview citizens, they'd also want Wanda/Vision out too. But that seems a little outlandish compared to the previous possibility where SWORD & witches are the teams.

I thought about it hard on why this role could exist...and I'm not seeing many town uses for it (again - under the assumption that V&W are town roles - if you flip this, the rationale is much weirder). That being said, I think it's a bold/weird scumclaim for D1 so I'm not really ready to hop on that train of thought too tightly.

Finally, I wondered what is the use of it at the end of the day. It's not a normal role which makes me think there are inherently non-normal roles in this game outside of the weak role.

Kind of just rambling at this point but don't have much time/energy to really correct any dumb setup mistakes here. Like I said I'm trash at that sort of thinking.

[Hiraki]

In my flavor, SWORD doesh't look like scum, because i collaborating with one of these agents. I even know this name, but i don't want reveal it yet.

Now this is interesting - you don't need to answer if you feel as if I'm prying here but have you seen the show and is this person a good SWORD person (i.e. Jimmy Woo or the lady at the end who helps out with the space tank)?

[Hiraki]

Mastina what do you think about the role though?

[Hiraki]

Nice - we're agreed there. I don't get the rationale of this gambit from a scum POV which is why I have hesitancy but perhaps that was the intent all along.

[Hiraki]

In my flavor, SWORD doesh't look like scum, because i collaborating with one of these agents. I even know this name, but i don't want reveal it yet.

Now this is interesting - you don't need to answer if you feel as if I'm prying here but have you seen the show and is this person a good SWORD person (i.e. Jimmy Woo or the lady at the end who helps out with the space tank)?

You are right.

Probably shouldn't have said that haha.

What is SWORD btw?

For the sake of this game, it's the 'good' guys that aren't actually good. That being said, Jimmy Woo is one of the actual good guys that are on the FBI rather than SWORD. Either way - important part is that he's not a bad guy.

Mine actually has plot relevance in the first episode and could easily be Masons with the character who plays his wife, so it would be so unnecessarily risky to fake claim this guy.

even the nonsober part of me thinks that this is super fucking weird to claim. it's a name claim - it shouldn't have anything super significant to do with the game unless it's something that is rolefishing. the obvious example is if i claimed wanda and then the real wanda said wtf (please be super clear, i am not doing that and also am a little tipsy)

yo how did we add 4 more pages i want to go to sleep

Cheeky probably dies tonight sadge

I'm predicting a town loss at this point, y'all are letting scum control the narrative and trying to mis-elim a plot relevant flavor claim that no one else has CC'd.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i don't get how 'vision's boss in the first episode' is a plot relevant flavor. there are several other characters i could pick that are plot relevant - wanda, vision, not speedy (i am absolutely not going to look up the name in my state), bad witch, girl who gets powers, jimmy woo, anti-vision, vision, girl from thor - and you think person from westview is relevant?????? wtf??????????

*votes a non-CC'd townie who got meta'd as town*

correct - this is the exact purpose of a fakeclaim

UNVOTE: Enchant

NM probably even not here, but move was really ballsy for mafia.

i don't think that's true

I intent to shoot Roden, i’ll give you time to decide whether i should do it or not.

i am on team please do

i have zero intentions to join a T3 wagon. shit seems manipulated at best

I just noticed i am sitting here uselessly again.


In my flavor, SWORD doesh't look like scum, because i collaborating with one of these agents. I even know this name, but i don't want reveal it yet.

town

my GUY

Shoot Roden, eliminate T3, and that's 2/3 gone and flipped D1.

T3 flips town tho - why are you doing this

Guillo, just shoot me.

guilo please do not read into the ATE here

@Mod: VC when you can?

my vote is pretty securely on roden atm without knowing our counts

[Hiraki]

same

[Hiraki]

why not

[Hiraki]

so i'm not allowed to try and figure out the game?

[Hiraki]

i haven't seen a flip yet - have you?

[Hiraki]

everything went a little too fast for my tastes but i guess you're right since that it wasn't a bad conclusion

[Hiraki]

i don't get how 'vision's boss in the first episode' is a plot relevant flavor. there are several other characters i could pick that are plot relevant - wanda, vision, not speedy (i am absolutely not going to look up the name in my state), bad witch, girl who gets powers, jimmy woo, anti-vision, vision, girl from thor - and you think person from westview is relevant?????? wtf??????????

[Hiraki]

same person who used ATE and self-voted?

[Hiraki]

then i'm scum, no?

[Hiraki]

i'll take the encouragement from someone actively using ATE and self-voting

[Hiraki]

Three things to note from this night kill (before I read anything) -

1) Flavor

may

imply that Wanda is not a town role.
2) Flavor also seems to imply that SWORD cannot be in this game - which is super weird to me. Maybe I'm just not getting the flavor or looking into it way too hard. The kill thread from above is showing that SWORD surrounds the townie's body. To me - it seems like this is taking place

before

anyone can get in. But again - nothing I want to push there as of yet.
3) There was only one night kill which kind of lends itself to a cult theory but could just be odd/even teams.

Regarding Roden (before I read anything) - I sincerely hope that scum is able to somehow 'fabricate' his role upon death otherwise I will probably never play with Roden again. I don't know any roles that normally do this offhand either because it's a weird thing to play around with balance-wise too. Lying about your role killed you more than your scummy actions and quite honestly may actually be detrimental to the game state. I'm very good at overlooking bad play for desperation. On the flipside, Guilo actually helped town in the end for whoever on earth would think that he could actually flip vig even after he retracted (which actually did a lot more wonders than it should have - credit earned where credit is due).

My guess is a protective ability saved someone.
Also scumreading me for correctly calling out a lie is not going to help town.

Potentially true - seems very odd though.

Some other people were saying a cult isn't almost ever here.

True - but in the setup description, mod could

not

confirm if there wasn't a cult.

Still strongly feeling T3 scum.

Play my thoughts a little - why does T3 kill Guilo? Or is he part of the other scum team?

VOTE: cyrus
Enchant is town. I will elaborate on this later but we should not lim Enchant.

I think this is a little shallow thinking. I know where you're going but it seems way too convenient to be Cyrus here.

I can see why guilloton was shot going over this.

ok my stock in cyrus-scum just skyrockted here. he clearly did not see the pullback

I'm incredibly skeptical of this "do not lim Enchant" claim.

why this part?

[Hiraki]

So meta? From 2 games?

[Hiraki]

I can't ask questions about what you're talking about?

What is the difference between meta and experience?

[Hiraki]

that doesn't make a lick of sense but ok, whatever floats your boat man

[Hiraki]

Play my thoughts a little - why does T3 kill Guilo? Or is he part of the other scum team?

This is just not town T3, I don't care to play wifom. Why does anyone kill guillo when dude was probably next up on the chopping block lol.

I'm not sold on T3scum anywhere. Can you guide me where I might be lost? I also don't think Guillo was even close to the chopping block.

[Hiraki]

bruh did cyrus just claim quicksilver?

isn't quicksilver part of the witches in the scheme of the show???

[Hiraki]

I also want to say that I don't think this is N_M's town game. I am re-reading T3 to see if I can join but I still have super outstanding issues with a claim of Pietro Maximoff from a flavor perspective.

[Hiraki]

Enchant likely town if T3 red imo. Fake associative when T3 feels he's going down.

You do realize it is multiball.

correct but i also got those vibes

I also want to say that I don't think this is N_M's town game. I am re-reading T3 to see if I can join but I still have super outstanding issues with a claim of Pietro Maximoff from a flavor perspective.

I think this isn't town why would the mod lie about my role . As I said I'm wandas brother I am a citizen of westview and I don't know if I am in control of witch powers

pietro maximoff isn't even in the show - i just don't understand it from a plot perspective. the plot of the show literally has 'pietro maximoff' as some random dude from westview. he's not alive since avengers 2. i might be going a little hardcore on canon but it seems like a huge slip-up to me that you would say you're "pietro maximoff" rather than "pietro maximoff/ralph bohner" which is much more in line with other characters and claims so far -

Btw I'm Todd Davis/Arthur Hart.

stack that along with who from a flavor perspective is able to be a partner with what would be the witch faction and it's literally just fake pietro and you've got nothing good from a flavor perspective

that being said, i don't know what the anti-town factions are so it could be 'agatha/random lady from episode 2 that i'm not going to look up right now' which is really the only reason i'm not tunneling but i'm getting pretty close to being comfortable

[Hiraki]

I will buy it only because the order was switched which I was doing on purpose.

[Hiraki]

rather than

"pietro maximoff/ralph bohner"

which is much more in line with other characters and claims so far -

Shrek noticed it too but I don't think that did anything - hopefully. I feel like scumcyrus would just latch onto saying 'yes, yes, i am pietro maximoff/ralph bohner' than what i think he did which was double check his role PM to switch the order

the part to note is that i was already saying that it was independently verified when it actually was not based off of the next step since as you noted the items were switched

could be thinking too hard into it though

[Hiraki]

So my reading has Ralph Bohner as the fake Pietro. And the real Pietro is Qucksilver. Am I right on that Hiraki?

not exactly but that's a little lore stuff that i don't think is relevant to the game - hopefully?

[Hiraki]

SHREK my GUY we're BACK BABY

[Hiraki]

I even got wind of it when he did his quick cheeky thing. It felt 'off' but it was still 'correct'. I don't see anything even close to that and we're on page 33.

[Hiraki]

SHREK

my GUY

we're BACK BABY

also sorry - i got too excited here to double check, on me - updated in the quotes...

[Hiraki]

I feel like scumcyrus would just latch onto saying 'yes, yes, i am pietro maximoff/ralph bohner' than what i think he did which was double check his role PM to switch the order

I'm not so sure tbh, assuming that scum has a provided fakeclaim - which I understand to be the norm for themed games from what I've read - wouldn't it be said the same way as a regular town role?

correct - i am saying he would not take that step in order to just get the claim out of the way. it's not super solid ground but it's solid enough for me

[Hiraki]

I feel like scumcyrus would just latch onto saying 'yes, yes, i am pietro maximoff/ralph bohner' than what i think he did which was double check his role PM to switch the order

I'm not so sure tbh, assuming that scum has a provided fakeclaim - which I understand to be the norm for themed games from what I've read - wouldn't it be said the same way as a regular town role?

also this feels like MAYBE tmi????????

no - i think it would be super weird if mod didn't provide fakeclaims in this game. unless you're saying something else?

[Hiraki]

I think it's overreacting but I appreciate the hustle.

[Hiraki]

Vote: Not_Mafia

[Hiraki]

It was going to be Enchant or N_M to be honest.

[Hiraki]

Not sure why T3 didn't claim at E-2 in an N_M game but maybe that was an oversight on many people.

[Hiraki]

It was going to be Enchant or N_M to be honest.

If enchant and nm play that way how do we get claims?

Is it a rule that you claim at E-1? Doesn't seem to be a rule for this game?

[Hiraki]

i actually agree that after this PR stint, T3 has a better chance of flipping scum but i don't think it's too high

[Hiraki]

N_M -> Enchant -> Zyla

tunnel mode activated

[Hiraki]

prob meg after that if the game somehow hasn't ended

[Hiraki]

people we should look at
also you

i didn't even VOTE you and i'm VOTING N_M

SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH

[Hiraki]

prob meg after that if the game somehow hasn't ended

Why would the game be over if we voted three people?
We know it's a multiball, and the most common assumption been that it's 9:2:2, so unless we get lucky and one of the scum teams kills their opponent, we'd need to vote 4 people off, not just 3

i haven't said anything about 9v2v2 as i don't see how that's possible with flavor and i don't see that based off of flavor in the current circumstances

[Hiraki]

same - N_M tomorrow though, 100000000%

[Hiraki]

Hiraki/Enchant are the only ones not mentioned. Enchant I'll discount but not sure why there's no read on Hiraki.

probably because y'all are just getting played by the 'oops!'

[Hiraki]

the above is actually super important but i don't want to talk about it until tomorrow

[Hiraki]

oh jeez i was so scared it was my time. i'd also like clarification on the countdown

[Hiraki]

To be fair, I actually don't know if the PM'd roles are worded the same as the revealed roles, since Tommy Maximoff doesn't have a non-anomalous counterpart

i'd like nameclaims at this point tbh. does anyone have a problem with this?

[Hiraki]

actually i take that back

[Hiraki]

i want to think about it more - sorry for the quadpost

[Hiraki]

yeah, let's continue with N_M for now then

Vote: N_M

pre-edit: cyrus you're wasting your breath

[Hiraki]

mastina - you're better at setup spec here. does cyrus have a point that shrek's claim makes the game overpowered on the town side? we would have a watcher, JK, cop & IC based off of the current claims.

[Hiraki]

enlighten me - what do the numbers mean?