Mini Theme 2244: 3d20 uRoll – Somewhere In New Jersey [End]

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I rolled Vanilla Finder Finder Finder.. somehow.

Are there any Vanilla Finder Finders? Vanilla Finders? Vanillas? ?

[Loftwing]

I rolled Cult and got Cult. Is this bad, or does that just make me Korina?

[Loftwing]

Anyway, if you guys help me execute Not_Mafia, I'll target a PGO tonight.

[Loftwing]

Well, get Not_Mafia in here so we can kill him!

[Loftwing]

Don't worry, I'm thw head of Scientology and have thus already won.

[Loftwing]

But fr though, I'm not a cultist. I landed directly into town territory, where even my fudge pudding die couldn't save me.

[Loftwing]

Why would you fake claim scum that's like the most anti-town thing you could possibly do

Why would you claim scum as scum?

There are two potential answers to why Loftwing is Loftwinging:

Loftwing is lolcatting or Loftwing is Jester. The first is NAI. The second is potentially game ending for scum. If somehow Loftwing IS cult, that's actually the biggest threat to all of the individual scumteams.

tl;dr Scum should definitely shoot the person who can maybe end the game, and not just to set up a vig claim down the line. Similarly, Loftwing is a pretty good vig target. Loftwing should not be the elimination today at all.

VOTE: Quiet Owl

hehehe yeees, attack me scummy bois~

In any case, I didn't get much from slayering. Then again, I didn't intend on slayering, it just kinda happened.

[Loftwing]

Slayering (Slayer's Gambit) is intentionally acting scummy to garner a reaction out of players, usually to help determine if they are scum.

Cult has the same wincon as any other Minority faction, but instead of a factional kill, they get a factional conversion.

[Loftwing]

I wouldn't want a vigilante to target me tonight

[Loftwing]

so i have a few ideas. 1st one if everyone who rolled cult but didnt get it type the letter c. if you didnt roll cult type the letters n/a . and if you fudged a dice type fudge and what dice you fudge . for me it would be n/a fudge dice 2. now you dont have to play along if you dont want to . but this might help us find out if there is a cult or not.

Cyrus brought it up first

[Loftwing]

My idea is simply unless you rolled cult and didn't get it you have no idea if there is a cult. What does the seven mean? Does it mean there are 7 town two scum two wearwovles and two aliens or does it mean there are six town,One cult 2 scum two wearwovles and two aliens? Which is why I askd what I did . I'm not asking for your rolls or even your role I'm just asking if you rolled cult and didn't receive it?

Sir, if you rolled cult and didn't get cult, that would mean that you are Neutral, and you also know for a fact that cult does exist.

[Loftwing]

If you get replaced for it, that just gives Not_Mafia a chance to replace into the game.

If you get modkilled for it, then that will just make me sad.

[Loftwing]

Before you suggest it, could a scum player's lies be able to counteract your strategy?

[Loftwing]

What information could any player give other than their dice rolls and current role? The only things that are confirmed to be changed by the moderator are:

Single-player masonries (which will be combined into one bigger masony)
Cult players (Only one cultist can exist at the start, all others are 3rd party, which have a 3/4ths chance of being negative utility to the town)

[Loftwing]

I don't think that would work, because that would be quoting mod communique

[Loftwing]

Well, even then, that gives the scum players a reasonable amount of information. They might not know what your role is exactly, but they would know every possibility for what you could be. Granted, the amount is 3x2x(3!), but that still comes out to 36 total combinations for what your role could be, which is far more information than what they started with.

[Loftwing]

I can feel how annoyed Cook is with me right now. It’s like a particularly flavorful hot sauce. And changing the rules to close the loophole would confirm that my strategy exists, interfering with the game.

Everyone should know what the town flavor is. It was directly stated in post 6.

[Loftwing]

I would be surprised if you rolled Day vig, because there is no day vig.

[Loftwing]

Because it was? I'm not sure what answer you want from me here.

[Loftwing]

I gambited and then later I said it was a gambit. Slayer's gambit is most fruitful when you do it in RVS, because it garners a lot of info in a short amount of time, and rockets you out of RVS

[Loftwing]

Sorry, I'm currently playing Salted 2 Salad Run, and also chasing after pagetops

[Loftwing]

I a a very noughts hempty person

[Loftwing]

... I just love altslipping, don't I?

Hello, I am Loftwing, and I have always been the independant and not-alt account of Jake The Wolfie.

[Loftwing]

After all cook stated jester is non game ending.

I'd actually missed this, but it makes the Jester win trivial.

Jester is the only role that actively wants to be eliminated. Jester is a threat to town if they aren't. (they actively want to be eliminated and don't want to be a threat to scum because that might get them shot. We will have to eliminate them at some point, because if they survive to XLO they will selfvote and cost town the game. Eliminating them while we're low info > eliminating them while we're high info.)

Therefore, any Jesters can claim and get eliminated and we can just move on with the game. With a phase worth of NA results to work with.

This seems.. wrong.

If at any point we eliminate a Jester, that's a scum player that we fail to eliminate, and thus one step closer to MeleeLo (Me/LeLo)

[Loftwing]

Jester is scum, but Jester won't come at your face with a knife or pamphlet or a spacey gun

Fuck off Jake. This is my game.

[Loftwing]

Not_Mafia is jester.

Jester is a role that wins when executed during the day. In this game, it does not end the game when it wins.

[Loftwing]

If we execute a Jester, XLO will still come a day sooner as well.

[Loftwing]

The main difference between executing a jester now vs never is that if we eliminate a jester, that's a wasted day that could have been spent gathering information via flip (Such as association, or seeing who pushed for the townie's death) whereas if we execute a Jester, the only info we get is "Yep, that's a Jester." The scum will always want to push for a Jester kill because it doesn't poorly reflect on them.

[Loftwing]

it's weird that loftwing voted N_M before ssbm came out with her jester post and is claiming not mafia is the jester, is that a joke?

Not_Mafia is notorious for claiming to be a Jester at that start of every game that he's in.

[Loftwing]

I am aware of this.

[Loftwing]

Which is why we need someone to replace out so that he can replace in and be crucified.

[Loftwing]

I don't think NM was actually claiming jester. This conversation feels pointless

The conversation isn’t about an extant jester claim, but rather that any jesters SHOULD claim because doing so guarantees their win.

@Loft: Jester has to be eliminated at some point before XLO or we simply lose in XLO because a non game ending jester in this setup has a trivial wincon. Today is the day with the lowest chance of limming scum otherwise because duh. Scum has no reason to shoot a jester claim. All of that is objectively true. Your argument is functionally: we should wait to eliminate jester until we potentially have nka and/or investigative results because maybe we’ll win without hitting XLO, in which case… we would have won the game anyway.

We would still get to XLO in the same number of days with or without executing a Jester.

Suppose the setup is as follows:

9 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Jester.

Assume that Mafia always kill town.

When will XLO be if we don't execute the jester?
When will XLO be if we do execute the jester?

[Loftwing]

@Bingle Fine. We will burn down a Jester that claims if that will make you happy. I still think it's a cop-out answer for scum not needing to actually scumhunt. (I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

@Cyrus uhh wat. What?

WHAT???

How the hell did you draw that connection for my oversimplified and clearly not realistic diagram of not this game?

[Loftwing]

Like, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion "Oh, loftwing is trying to trick the town into thinking that there's 9 townies when there's only 7!"

[Loftwing]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

No one is suggesting there is a Jester.
I don't see much reason to think that 7 means 7 townies. There's nothing that mechanically confirms or denies that, and 7 is just a 51% majority of 13

[Loftwing]

Scum without the S is just a team of roleblockers.

[Loftwing]

I think that would be classified under Mod Communication.

[Loftwing]

I still think you aren't a fun player to play with, and that would've probably gotten you blacklisted by most players here.

[Loftwing]

It is still a little confusing to me that you went through the work of finding a breaking strategy, instead of literally just lying.

[Loftwing]

The scum motive to lie is to see how coordinated the town could get if prodded just right

wat?

Also, please explain your meaning here, instead of dodging the question.

Thanks for bringing this back up, no longer confused as to why you didn't lie.

What are you confused about here?

[Loftwing]

Yeah yeah, I get that, but what were you confused about?

[Loftwing]

Well, if you could get the town coordinated on your side, you could be god.

[Loftwing]

Cyrus, who do you think is most likely to be cult?

[Loftwing]

Well, if you could get the town coordinated on your side, you could be god.

So your argument was that I had theoretically been faking a breaking strategy in the hopes that it would make me an obvious town leader in a likely multiball setup where I would then be susceptible to being shot and was going to ride the cred from a breaking strategy that didn't exist and never would have appeared to endgame. I definitely believe.

...No?

You would be testing the waters at this stage, not doing a full fledged cannonball.

[Loftwing]

Dweelee is in the game?


...Yep, they are.

[Loftwing]

Cyrus, who would you want to kill right now?

[Loftwing]

I rolled all 3 of my dice in one tag. How would I demonstrate my alignment without revealing a substantial amount of my role?

[Loftwing]

It also would not have worked with players like me, who rolled all of their dice in one tag, since I would have no way to extract just the alignment role without resorting to scum measures.

[Loftwing]

Cultists are pretty much going to act like town here. They have legitimately no incentive to not scumhunt. Cultists want the town to survive, and want to reduce other factions down so that they have multiple recruitment options.

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town. Not just to reduce cult options to recruit, but also because that brings them a step closer to winning.

[Loftwing]

ssbm_Kyouko
Dragon of the West
Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Dunnstral
StrangeMatter
Enchant
RegRider
Mama Ru

cyrus62
Loftwing
Quiet Owl

This is roughly where I’m at.

Why do you rank Kyouko so high up?

[Loftwing]

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town.

Literally the opposite. Multi ball is hard specifically because scum can and should genuinely scumhunt which makes generating reliable townreads more difficult.

Hunting cult atp is generic scumhunting without the associative tells.

The mafia need to strike a balance between genuinely scumhunting, and hunting for town, because they can never genuinely find their own teammates.

[Loftwing]

What am I doing at the top here

I think you actively pushing against the thread getting derailed by irrelevant mechspeak makes you more likely town than the people who have done functionally nothing.

This is.. interesting.

What irrelevant mechspeak could you be talking about?

[Loftwing]

Why do you rank Kyouko so high up?

Kyouko’s response to “I think loft was trying to dig for how to escape a potential strat” was to immediately ask about the strat. Additionally, 161, 166, and 226 all struck me as town motivated.

Where did Kyouko respond to that specifically? I don't particularly think 226 is a response to that.

I find those posts unimpressive.

Mafia want to stay aliveee, while also maybe scumhunting, but probably just hunting for town.

Literally the opposite. Multi ball is hard specifically because scum can and should genuinely scumhunt which makes generating reliable townreads more difficult.

Hunting cult atp is generic scumhunting without the associative tells.

The mafia need to strike a balance between genuinely scumhunting, and hunting for town, because they can never genuinely find their own teammates.

They don’t have to genuinely find their own teammates. That’s the point. They can genuinely find other groups.

Granted, but the first point of staying alive still holds.

[Loftwing]

What irrelevant mechspeak could you be talking about?

Basically everything about the strategy post the invalidation of the strategy. And yes, I’m aware that it is mostly my fault the discussion exists.

I think that while ultimately useless in terms of mechanics, it did offer an opportunity to be a goldmine for jumpstarting the game. I'm sure you've noticed the lack of events in the game so far.

[Loftwing]

I do find it odd that no neutral players have claimed yet. Then again, half of them would be a Serial Killer anyway.

[Loftwing]

I don't find that you brought it up and they failed to respond to it as them responding to it.

I feel like survivalism is more of a scum trait, but it can very much be found in town players, even vanilla town players. I would very much like to not die is what I'm trying to say, regardless of alignment.
It can also be the case that someone might be emulating fatalism to seem more townlike, since town aren't supposed to care if they die.

I do find it odd that no neutral players have claimed yet. Then again, half of them would be a Serial Killer anyway.

It’s entirely possible they simply don’t exist.

Granted, but it is not entirely likely.

[Loftwing]

It has less than a 50% chance of occurring, assuming that no one who rolled neutral fudged against it.

[Loftwing]

Granted, I can't give a precise percentage of there being no neutrals, but I can give a naïve estimate.

[Loftwing]

If a Serial Killer existed, then there would necessarily be Neutrals in the game. Granted, they are scum Neutrals, but there would still be neutrals.

I don't entirely understand why you would fudge your alignment, unless your role was already good as is.

[Loftwing]

can you elaborate your vote on

owl

Loftwing

[Loftwing]

I trust cyrus.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Loftwing]

(I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

I have a hard time reconciling this with actual thoughts.

Sure, there are three options:

Continue Game, Lose Game, Win Game. Why the fuck would anyone choose Continue Game over Win Game? How did you even arrive at that being a thing anyone might ever choose?

I don't care if you can reconciliate it with your thoughts. My thoughts aren't yours, and my thought process isn't yours to understand. If I want to convince you of something, then it would be on me to help you understand my thought process, but as of now I've

already agreed to execute a jester should one claim.

[Loftwing]

Mama Ru, are you my door?
Because you are unhinged and quite thin.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Mama ru
ISO even more useless than mine

Have you looked at Dunnstral? The competition is stiff... this game is full of potential All Stars Of Lurk.

Truer words were never spoke, tbh.

I’m not really interested in rushing a lurker elim when I think it’s obvious that loft has been making up fake reasoning to be paranoid.

I'm a bullshit connoisseur

[Loftwing]

I would also like an explanation on what that means, Bingle Jells.

[Loftwing]

from the back

Ey Bingle not everyone is a literal god at Mafia, take it back a notch

[Loftwing]

Meh

VOTE: RegRider

There blood Let be

[Loftwing]

Hmm, I think I struck a nerve with the scum.

[Loftwing]

So is RegRider

[Loftwing]

Hey Dweelee, what are your current thoughts on the game?

[Loftwing]

Regrider EVIL

Please elaborate on this.

[Loftwing]

Why do you think they are evil? Please provide evidence as well.

[Loftwing]

Why do they seem caught to you? Why can't this be more Wrong-Town behaviour?
C'mon Dweelee, don't make me pull the answers out of you.

[Loftwing]

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

[Loftwing]

Show of hands respond with the letter I . Who thinks becuse of the strange questions posed by loft over reg that they may be partners?

So me painfully dragging Dweelee into this game whether he likes it or not is.. strange? Please elaborate further on this point.

Hmm, I think I struck a nerve with the scum.

You said this, then turned around and never talked about it again. Please, explain.

That sudden rush of votes on me immediately after I voted Reg is odd and potentially a giveaway that the scum want me dead.

[Loftwing]

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

His reaction indicates to me he thinks he doesn't deserve to be caught yet did anyway

To me, it seems more like someone who's trying to understand why they are being scumread. I can get behind that, it's always a good idea to learn why players scumread other players, and other players include yourself. It's not some sort of ploy to try changing their actions to be less scumread, it's genuinely trying to understand why you think the way you do. If they did want to shift their actions to be more townread as scum, they would either ask you point blank (like they are doing here), or get someone else on their team to ask on their behalf.

In short, I don't see why you see them as any more caught than someone asking another why they scumread a particular player.

[Loftwing]

Not at all. I thought the reader would understand that the last part assumes that they are scum, because otherwise they would be Town wanting to be Townread, which I've been told is a naughty no-no thing for town to want.

[Loftwing]

I don't think that they are tonally scummy there. It just seems like a frustrated townie being scumread for bad reasons.

[Loftwing]

Cool.

[Loftwing]

Meh, if anyone deserves to be at E-1, it should be Dweelee. That might put a flame under their ass to participate more. Seriously, look at their ISO and tell me that you think that player isn't hiding something.

[Loftwing]

In the very last game I was in with you, you were way more active than this on Day 1. Why aren't you doing anything?

[Loftwing]

Seriously, compare Town Dweelee to Dweelee here.
Sure, Dweelee ended the game as scum here, but they started out as Town, and were far more active than they are now.

[Loftwing]

You can't meta your way out of being inactive and evasive. And you were still much more active in that game than in this one.

Also, how is the playerlist affecting your ability to interact with the game? Are you not having fun? Are you secretly on V/LA but don't want to say it? Why are you being so quiet and disconnected?

[Loftwing]

Loft I wouldn't push dw he could hammer you.

I don't care. If anything, that would just it more obvious that Dweelee is probably scum.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Dwlee99

Yeah, wagon that I agree with!

[Loftwing]

Now i want vote Loftwing instead. Why you didn't vote early if you disagree?

I always did want to vote Dweelee for coasting this game, but I wanted to confirm my suspicions by waiting to see if Dweelee would do anything. Unfortunately, I am not good at wagon building when there are already 2 major wagons present in the game, so I decided to abandon that and vote RegRider instead, lending support for that one.

I disagree completely with reading into Dwlee's activity as AI and meta'ing them across games is nearly worthless. Actually I'd expect probably more game driving from scum!Dwlee

Game driving is

quite literally

what town!Dweelee does.

[Loftwing]

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

This seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are you game driving as town, or are you not game driving as town?

[Loftwing]

Here's a question for @Loftwing. What are you reads right now, and can you please explain them?

Besides Dweelee (who it should be clear why I scumread), here are my current reads:

Bingle is probably town here, mainly considering their response to us claiming dice rolls. In retrospect, their gamebreaking strategy would probably come from a town player, and I was just angry at them for coming up with an unfun strat.

Cyrus seems to have the feeling of being generally incorrect but sincere. I think they go into the townbin.

Mama Ru seems generally absent and isn't hitting most of the town marks I would expect from a player. scumlean there.

Mostly everyone else goes in the nullbin. They haven't shown up on my radar yet.

[Loftwing]

Telling you to vote Regrider

is

game driving

(I also don't always game drive as town but)

This seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Are you game driving as town, or are you not game driving as town?

I do both. I don't have a static meta as either alignment. It completely depends on playerlist, my role, the vibes in the game, what has happened, etc

Well no shit meta isn't static. Of course it's impacted by outside influences. But that doesn't mean that your play dramatically changes between games, as if your account trades hands every time you sign up for a new game. There is some invariance there, and that is what meta captures. What is invariant between games?

You're not just scum because lolmeta, you're scum because you are being absent from the game, something which not only would benefit a scum player, but also doesn't fit into your meta.

[Loftwing]

I have more posts than 9/12 of the other players. How tf am I absent here

You haven't intentionally gotten into the thick of an argument, you haven't been calling out things that you disagree with, you haven't tried playing the game until I dragged your unwilling ass into it.

Also, you like to airate your posts, shooting out short disconnected ideas, which would boost up your post count without actually having more substance than most players.

[Loftwing]

What arguments? All I've seen is boring mech discussion and Cyrus being Cyrus. Closest thing otherwise to an argument is explaining why a low poster who reacted badly to a simple push is likely to be scum and you thinking I'm scum for not having an essay level read on someone with 13 posts

I'm not expecting you to have omniscience of the game. I'm expecting you to put your thoughts out there into the game more than you have been. You've basically said nothing this entire game, and are now getting defensive that you've said nothing this entire game.

And funny enough, you gave me the same crap last time we played

.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

That I'm not being reasonable enough or giving enough reasons. And I was town and we ended up hard stomping scum in that game with my help.

So maybe this method of reading me based on me not having super deep reasons to scumread someone (with 13 posts btw) isn't effective?

As above, I'm not expecting you to have a deep read on someone. However, I would expect you to have it if you wanted them dead (which you very clearly seem to do). It is not my fault that you've shown that you want a player with 13 posts dead despite not having many good reasons for wanting them dead.

[Loftwing]

Also you're scumreading me for the exact same reason you scumread me last time and you just completely ignored that

No, it is not the same reason.

Firstly, sorry for misgendering you in one of my last posts, Dwlee.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

Wake is asking that you interact with him while you're here and ready to give responses, but instead of doing that, you instead say something like "What? No! I did do stuffs, like this poe! You have a problem with it?" And then when questioned about why the players who are there are, well, there, you say "You got a problem with any specific player m8?" which is irrelevant to what he was asking you.

If you brought up the full post, it would be clear that it is not the same reason. You're doing a Bait and switch with "You aren't playing the game unless people force you to" and "You refuse to answer questions about your play", which are clearly not the same argument.

[Loftwing]

[Man, this post is far to long to quote]
Read this sequence and tell me it's not the exact same thing again

This is irrelevant. I wasn't scumreading you for that. Maybe re-read the very post that you quoted as an example.

[Loftwing]

Your reasoning here is that I am not giving enough reasons for stuff and you want me to dump my entire brain

That's the same exact thing wake was saying and that you latched onto

Reasonable response. To his questions going "Give me reasons for all of your reads!!" to which I said "ask me about a specific one." And now you're pushing me because you had to ask for me to explain my reads. Literally the same

Dweelee, my enby(?), my sweet summer child, in that game I wasn't criticizing you for not putting your thoughts out there, mainly because that would have not only been wrong but wouldn't have been the most pressing issue. No, the reason I was criticizing you was your refusal to answer Wake's questions to the stuff you had already put out there.

It is becoming increasingly hard to correct you on what I am doing and what I am thinking. You're trying to correct what I am thinking. Please stop, I know what my thoughts are.

[Loftwing]

I think you're misunderstanding why I'm scumreading you.

I'm not scumreading you for refusing to answering questions, because that would be false. You

are

answering questions. Maybe not to my satisfaction, but I don't think that's particularly scummy.

I'm scumreading you for your lack of content to interact with. For needing it to be dragged out of you instead of you just posting it, out in the open, for everyone to see.

p-edit: Good luck on your pre-interview thing!

[Loftwing]

vc, but it's not canon

Loftwing (4): Save the Dragons,StrangeMatter,Quiet Owl, Dunnstral
RegRider (3): Dwlee99, Enchant, Bingle
Dwlee(3): ssbm_Kyouko, Loftwing, Mama Ru
cyrus62 (1):Dragonof the West
Bingle(1): cyrus62

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to win.
Loftwing remains.

Loftnotes:
Comic sans, butevery 7thletteris jarringly times New Roman.

[Loftwing]

Also feels weird that Loft and Mama Ru have hopped onto Dwlee with me UNVOTE:

..Why?

[Loftwing]

Kyouko, you're playing in multiball. Even if me and Mama Rubwere both on the same scum team, that doesn't mean that Dweelee isn't also scum but on a different team.

[Loftwing]

It doesn't matter what color scumteam I'm on if I'm not scum.

[Loftwing]

It doesn't matter what color scumteam I'm on if I'm not scum.

Town does not fabricate wagons with "meta reading" as the basis.

Town also doesn't repeatedly misrepresent their opponent's position to make them look bad.

[Loftwing]

Yeah, imagine if I voted RegRider, like ever. And like, they were put on E-1. That would look crazy bad. For you, at least.

Anyway, VOTE: RegRider

[Loftwing]

Yeah, imagine if I voted RegRider, like ever. And like, they were put on E-1. That would look crazy bad. For you, at least.

Anyway, VOTE: RegRider

What?

What, you didn't read the game or something? I had previously voted RegRider before, and he was put at E-1.

[Loftwing]

Ok I've been away for a bit from this game, so there's definitely something weird going on with Loftwing right now. It really is survivalism that they go from pushing Dwlee, then afterwards move over to the Regrider wagon, which I get what people see as scummy but this is kind of hard to ignore.

VOTE: Loftwing

Go ahead. Hammer me. Say that I'm being survivalistic. I'll die by my words.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: RegRider

[Loftwing]

Hmm, 2 players died?

So we probably have Mafia/Werewolves, or maybe Mafia + Werewolves, but

never

Mafia×Werewolves.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Dwlee

Or I am town and genuinely do scumread Dwlee

[Loftwing]

Also, Mama Ru, how do you know your ability failed?

[Loftwing]

I'm more interested in how Mama Ru knows she was roleblocked/ability prevented.

[Loftwing]

B

ingle would never do something as uncool as faking a guilty.

[Loftwing]

Imagine being an Alien smh.

I thought you were better than this, Enchant.

[Loftwing]

I don't see the utility of Bingle faking a guilty as any scum here, not this early anyway.

[Loftwing]

If Enchant was lying about their Alignment roll, wouldn't they plant it firmly into the the range and claim to fudge something else into what their actual role is?

[Loftwing]

Like, this isn't exactly the damning evidence I look for here. If Enchant was lying about their alignment, it's because

they're scum, chief.

If they aren't lying about their alignment, then they would be town.
Now, please tell me the difference between "I rolled town" coming from town, and "I rolled town" coming from scum.

[Loftwing]

Loft why do you keep trying to play devil's advocate.

Because some players act like the devil is not in the details, it's in the player...s alignment.

[Loftwing]

loftwing, do you know what the problem is

I think you could tell what I am based upon what's gone around here, if you're saying what I'm thinking.

If not, then no fucking clue.

[Loftwing]

i don't know if i believe enchant is SK

Yes a sk rampaging pgo that didn't out day1 so they Risk prs being killed but that would be basicly bullet proof killer .

A PGO SK? Risking PRs getting killed? Wild.

[Loftwing]

Yeah, and Enchant claimed SK. So, theoretically, Bingle is telling the truth.

[Loftwing]

Yeah, and Enchant claimed SK. So, theoretically, Bingle is telling the truth.

That ignores the fact that Bingle claimed Bloodhound, which we know they couldn’t have known that a player is a SK, only that they are town or not.

What are you even arguing here? That Bingle saying that a non-town player is non-town means that they were accusing them of being a Serial Killer specifically?

[Loftwing]

Meh, if I'm going to die, I might as well reveal that I am the one who Roleblocked Mama Ru. I'd be more than happy chaining myself to Enchant, mainly because I don't have many strong reads this game.

[Loftwing]

At the very least, if I die tonight it would be confirmed that Enchant is a PGO.

[Loftwing]

I claimed mainly to announce that I have no fucken clue how to use my ability, and that I would be better off alive than dead, as it would nullify your power.

[Loftwing]

I chose the "I'm about to invent Farenheit" approach, by that I mean I became a drunk mathematician rolling dice.

I kid, of course. I scumread MamaRuu, I block her.

[Loftwing]

Ah, so Enchant isn't a PGO or a Serial Kira. They're just a jester, or another scum player.

Also, I'm asking Cook for some clarification here.

[Loftwing]

I definitely didn't intend to target Enchant last night, so there's that.

[Loftwing]

Bus drivver was on Bingel and Me, not Mama Roo and Enchant. I know this for a fact.

[Loftwing]

Bus drivver was on Bingel and Me, not Mama Roo and Enchant. I know this for a fact.

I don't think you get it. Your actions still go though but your targets get switch.

No, that's false.

Anyone targeting one of us would swap to the other.

If I target Mama Ru and Bingle targets Enchant, a bus driver swaps up, and STD targets me, they would see that "I" targeted Enchant, when in reality I targeted Mama Ru.

Bus Drivers don't swap the targets of the players they target, or else Bingle would be very confused here, and Enchant wouldn't have killed.

[Loftwing]

Also, I don't think that Dweelee killed anyone here. It's not a hard clear, but they di'n't do no murderin''

[Loftwing]

Also, I don't think that Dweelee killed anyone here. It's not a hard clear, but they di'n't do no murderin''

There is absolutely no mechanical basis for this, based solely on what has already been claimed. Note: this is not an invitation to other people to claim more, we can figure it out tomorrow when Dwlee's elimination is actually on the metaphorical chopping block and we have more information in the first place.

I actually rolled 15 different Double modifiers, so I acted 16 different times last night /s

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Enchant

Actually, Enchant is not a Serial Killer, or else they have lied by omission.

Die, Scumb!

[Loftwing]

Look over the rules again, specifically the alignment stuff.

[Loftwing]

My second role roll was Complex Serial Killer (actually i rolled Complex Vigilante, but SK can't be Vigilante here), but i obviously didn't choose it.

This part?

Ah, nevermimd.

[Loftwing]

i think i might have a guilty on strange.

How so?

[Loftwing]

Loft what are your thoughts right now?

I want to know what result that Mama ru got on Strange here, considering that you supposedly jailkept them.

[Loftwing]

So who did Cyrus target then?

[Loftwing]

I targeted StrangeMatter last night.

[Loftwing]

Seeing as no one died, I do not see how this could be relephant, other than clearing Dweelee from wrongdoing.

[Loftwing]

Seeing as no one died, I do not see how this could be relephant, other than clearing Dweelee from wrongdoing.

Correction: This would not be hard evidence clearing Dweelee, seeing as there are many other plausible reasons why scum!dweelee would not kill (Alien, choose not to, was somehow roleblocked, hit someone who is secretly bulletproof, etc.)

[Loftwing]

I blocked Cyrus as promised

Can confirm cyrus was visited and only cyrus

What does this mean?

[Loftwing]

Ah, I thought STD was suddenly claiming Tracker/watcher or some crap like that.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: dw I think your pulling something. I am town even night jk.

Dw cannot be solo scum at this point.

How so? Dweelee could be an instance of SCP-3008-2, and therefore have access to only 1 kill which they either may no longer have access to now (it was used up before), or they chose not to use it tonight.

[Loftwing]

Basically, we have one mechanical interaction that is unresolved. I targeted enchant. Either my targeting of enchant succeeded and I should be dead or owl bus drove enchant and owl should have died night one. From my perspective, I know that is true.

Technically, it is feasible that I would have lied about bloodhounding enchant and relied on owl being outed as bus driver to get me out of a fake guilty as scum with owl, but why would I? I wouldn’t have had a way to know enchant was a pgo as scum any more than I did as town.

Given this, and the fact that none of the flipped roles can explain the lack of me and/or owl dying on Night 1, we have a role that caused me or owl to survive N1. None of the claimed roles can do so, given that I explicitly wasn’t blocked. Therefore, mama Ru is actually a full cop at this point, if we assume there is only one scum remaining (the one that prevented my death.)

Technically, you or Ru could be scum in addition to the scum who led to the mechanical strangeness on N1, but you are not the sole remaining scum because your role is confirmed to be unable to resolve the inconsistency.

I think this will just be lost on us unless a protective role either dies or the game ends.

Please explain to me how resolving this specific interaction advances our gameplay.

[Loftwing]

I submit the following:

Paranoid Gun Owner may be preventable via roleblock, and the bus driver fucked with our results enough to land one of our roleblockers onto Enchant.

[Loftwing]

I could also see Enchant lying about who they killed N1 (targeting Dunnstral the Asceticizer) to score more brownie points for the town.

[Loftwing]

The thing is that I don't see why a scum protective wouldn't claim here.

[Loftwing]

Or that you literally claimed Bloodhound Day 1, and later claimed Joat.

[Loftwing]

In any case, I'm not quite sure who would be scum here, if anyone. I think that even if we did know the exact role everyone had, that wouldn't help us one bit, because any player of any alignment could have any role.

[Loftwing]

Who would you want to kill today, Bingle?

[Loftwing]

I targeted Bingle, the thing that I was told to do.

[Loftwing]

In my opinion, we should start killing players who cannot actively stall the game in a 1v1 finale.

[Loftwing]

So basically, Cyrus, Mama Ru, STD, and Bingle.

[Loftwing]

It means that the (presumed town) roleblocker/JK will be able to keep the only other player alive (who would be confirmed scum at this point) from killing them via chain roleblock.

[Loftwing]

In fact, we have enough roleblock power right now to just go full auto into Cyrus > Bingle > STD > Ru.

I haven't revealed this yet (mainly because I didn't want to die yet, and this also explains why I wanted an alternate target other than Bingle, I also hinted at being double here), but I am a Double Roleblocker, not just a normal roleblocker.

[Loftwing]

Did you block anyone other than bingle? No?

I decided to go with Cyrus, seeing as they were already being blocked anyway.

[Loftwing]

In fact, here are all of my actions throughout the days:

N1: Mama Ru, Dwlee
N2: StrangeMatter, Cyrus
N3: Bingle, Cyrus

The 2nd player listed is the unclaimed target.

[Loftwing]

I found it hilarious that I not only targeted Cyrus, but I also targeted his jailkeep target.

[Loftwing]

Yeah, that's why I said this:

Also, I don't think that Dweelee killed anyone here. It's not a hard clear, but they di'n't do no murderin''

[Loftwing]

Unless they are an alien, then they can. However, I don't think the scum ever kill here.

[Loftwing]

I don't think we could ever lose here, as long as me and dweelee are both town.

[Loftwing]

I'm not really in the business of convincing players that I am town.

[Loftwing]

Bingle can't check me with bloodhound again, because that's how they found Enchant. They're a Joat.

[Loftwing]

Suppose that you get into a 1v1 against the final remaining scum, who has a kill. You would die on an odd numbered night, because you can't block their kill every night. Meanwhile, I would be able to survive easily since I could block not only them ever night, but also block a secondary player as well.

[Loftwing]

What I'm trying to say here is that you, cyrus, should have tried to fudge your modifier roll down to get either Multitasking or no modifier at all, but I think this is moot since Cyrus is probably the last scum anyway.

VOTE: Cyrus62

[Loftwing]

Dweelee, how could you misread the message, fully addressed to Cyrus, to be about you, especially when you already

have

multitasking?

[Loftwing]

What I'm saying is that, any you gots to be real cleaver to know is, is you've got to, and lissen close, is, is, you gotta..

drops fucking dead

[Loftwing]

I can block every night

dw is town . loft is last scum i think he is db roleblock ww

How do you figure that?

[Loftwing]

How do you figure that I am werewolf

specifically

?

[Loftwing]

Like really, I want to know how you looked at StrangeMatter, then looked at me, and made the mental link that "yeah both of these people are working together"

Also, what? I could have literally lied about blocking Bingle and you would have been none the wider, my guy. I could be an alien with 1 precious kill. I could have killed Dweelee, who is arguably a bigger threat to my existence, or STD, who is also a threat to my existence.

Like, hwhat?

[Loftwing]

How do you figure that I am werewolf

specifically

?

yes maybe your alien and no killed becuse it was used on owl who thought you were scum. but im pretty sure their was only one alien. and two wolves. plus strange kinda defended you .

Wasn't owl killed by StrangeMatter being a PGO? Anyway, why does Strange defending me mean I'm scum, instead of them trying to pocket me (or throw shade on me when they flip scum)

pre edit. you left them alive because dw expected you.

..What does this mean?

side note. dw knows how i play as scum. and dw knows i have bleed town this whole game.

Which is why Dweelee suspects that one of us are scum, which includes you.

[Loftwing]

If anything, I'd be a member of the Doubletime Butler Conspiracy, as all Mafia members so far have been doubled roles.

In any case, I don't recall scumreading you D2 dweelee. Not any more than usual, anyway.

[Loftwing]

if im scum make a case. becuse i can use my jk to protect town tonight. and lock you up. another side note loft now knows he can block dw and me and he wants to drag the game out so he wins. voting loft off is the better move here.

..?

Not what I suggested, but ok.

My suggestion was to get me and Dweelee into a 1v1, so that neither player could kill the other without being roleblocked. I wouldn't be able to kill Dweelee since I would be jailkept, and Dweelee couldn't kill me because I would roleblock them, and they couldn't jailkeep and kill me, because jailkeeping protects the jailkept.

pedit: Yeah, as I said dweelee, not scumread anymore than usual.

[Loftwing]

How do you figure that I am werewolf

specifically

?

yes maybe your alien and no killed becuse it was used on owl who thought you were scum. but im pretty sure their was only one alien. and two wolves. plus strange kinda defended you .

Wasn't owl killed by StrangeMatter being a PGO? Anyway, why does Strange defending me mean I'm scum, instead of them trying to pocket me (or throw shade on me when they flip scum)

pre edit. you left them alive because dw expected you.

..What does this mean?

side note. dw knows how i play as scum. and dw knows i have bleed town this whole game.

Which is why Dweelee suspects that one of us are scum, which includes you.

owl wasnt killed by strange becuse strange was roleblocked and locked up.

If Strange was roleblocked and Locked up, then why didn't both a roleblocker and jailkeeper die at the same time?
Also, no, StrangeMatter wasn't jailkept and roleblocked. They were bus driven. By the bus driver. Who died visiting Strange.

[Loftwing]

Hi, bye, silent why. We never meant to part, by heart.
One, light, higher than the sun. Invisible to some, until, it's time.

[Loftwing]

I would like to remind Cyrus that if they had successfully targeted StrangeMatter as they said, then they would be dead. As Cook has confirmed for us, roleblocking a PGO does not prevent their PGO from going off and killing the roleblocker.
This means that either an unknown Bulletproof Busdriver/Busdriver and protecter combo exists and we have not found them yet, or that Quiet Owl died to StrangeMatter because StrangeMatter was a Paranoid Gun Owner who Quiet Owl, a bus driver, visited, and subsequently died from.

Also, no Cyrus. Jailkeeper doesn't block Paranoid Gun Owner from killing, because Jailkeeper roleblocks their target. Jailkeeper doesn't banish them to the shadow realm for one night like some sort of Yugioh Commuter. Go ask Cook yourself if you think I am wrong.

And no, cyrus, no Jailkeeper was on Enchant Night 1. Dweelee was roleblocked Night 1, so unless you're about to say that you are a full Jailkeeper who targeted Enchant Night 1, no jailkeeper could have been on them.

[Loftwing]

I submit the following:

Paranoid Gun Owner may be preventable via roleblock, and the bus driver fucked with our results enough to land one of our roleblockers onto Enchant.

That would fall under major mod error but we can check.

@cook: would a roleblocker prevent a pgo from killing?

No.

@cook: would a jailkeeper prevent a pgo from killing?

[Loftwing]

Be gay and do crime?

[Loftwing]

What do you think I might be lying about? Just, in general.

[Loftwing]

That sounds like a question for a Mod Listerator

[Loftwing]

I don''t like how that would imply that Cook decided to run a setup with a lot less than a town majority, while also letting one faction having at least 3 members, and at most 4 members (Mafia)

[Loftwing]

I also think that would necessarily implicate at least one of us, Dweelee, because otherwise we would both be able to roleblock everyone else who could kill, and thus prevent anyone from killing.

[Loftwing]

So here's the master plan:

During the night, Ru, STD, and Bingle use their investigative actions.

I roleblock Mama Ru and STD.
Dweelee jailkeeps Bingle.

If anyone dies, then it is guarenteed that either I or Dweelee is scum.

If Mama Ru or STD report recieving any result other than No Result, and Bingle reports recieving No Result, then I am scum and should be killed immediately.

If Mama Ru or STD report recieving No Result, then we kill Dweelee immediately

If Mama Ru, STD, and Bingle all report recieving a result other than No Result, then Dweelee jailkept me and should be killed immediately.

Under these circumstances, it is impossible for a solo scum in me or Dweelee to kill without resulting in an immediate loss.
The only fail here is if there is a pair of scum here and one of them is either me or Dweelee (in which case we would gain majority immediately.)

[Loftwing]

If either me or Dweelee were solo scum, then neither of us would be able to kill without losing immediately. Therefore, even if there were 2 solo scum (with one of them being in either me or dweelee), the night would effectively resolve as if there was only one scum, and it was between me or dweelee.

[Loftwing]

If either me or Dweelee were solo scum, then neither of us would be able to kill without losing immediately. Therefore, even if there were 2 solo scum (with one of them being in either me or dweelee), the night would effectively resolve as if there was only one scum, and it was between me or dweelee.

So why not vote you then. Then we know last scum is . Bingel.

You are trying your damndest to kill me. It's pathetic.

[Loftwing]

But sure, let's assume that Bingle and I are both scum together.

In this scenario, I would be in a scum pair, and the game would end in a loss for town.

Let's now assume that me and Mama Ru were scum together. Or Me and STD, since both cases are funtionally symmetric.

In either scenario, I would be in a scum pair, and the game would end in a loss for town.

So your argument does not hold here, sir.

[Loftwing]

Or you are a Serial Killer. I don't bring this up because it is literally irrelevant. Every post you make may not directly incriminate you, but it does make you look more and more like scum who is desperately trying to get the town onto their side.

[Loftwing]

guys I figured it out guys.

cyrus was targeted N0 but the Cult Leader, and then they targeted Enchant to get the sweet release of death. cyrus is a cultist!


(And no, I didn't lie about being a double roleblocker, that is an unfounded assumption that you extrapolated from first principles, aka pulled out of either thin air or your ass)

[Loftwing]

What is happening

Also Bingle can't get another result because I think they used all their shots?

I think Cyrus is trolling.

Doesn't Bingle have that 1-shot Cop Finder? I'm not sure if they've used that yet.

[Loftwing]

guys I figured it out guys.

cyrus was targeted N0 but the Cult Leader, and then they targeted Enchant to get the sweet release of death. cyrus is a cultist!


(And no, I didn't lie about being a double roleblocker, that is an unfounded assumption that you extrapolated from first principles, aka pulled out of either thin air or your ass)

wow did you not read what the mod said. the mod stated that if the cult leader is killed the recruitment fails you just made a scum slip.

Nah you didn't read what i said you got converted n0 and then your cult leader couldn't handle you so they paid a visit to the grim reaper enchant.

[Loftwing]

nah ur just salty because ur a no kill culty scummie boi who didn't get any tummy rub rubs.

[Loftwing]

So here's the master plan:

During the night, Ru, STD, and Bingle use their investigative actions.

I roleblock Mama Ru and STD.
Dweelee jailkeeps Bingle.

If anyone dies, then it is guarenteed that either I or Dweelee is scum.

If Mama Ru or STD report recieving any result other than No Result, and Bingle reports recieving No Result, then I am scum and should be killed immediately.

If Mama Ru or STD report recieving No Result, then we kill Dweelee immediately

If Mama Ru, STD, and Bingle all report recieving a result other than No Result, then Dweelee jailkept me and should be killed immediately.

Under these circumstances, it is impossible for a solo scum in me or Dweelee to kill without resulting in an immediate loss.
The only fail here is if there is a pair of scum here and one of them is either me or Dweelee (in which case we would gain majority immediately.)

Couldn't you use this plan to fake a "guilty" on me by just roleblocking me lol

I do see your concern, and I could have worded it better.

If I were scum, I couldn't both roleblock you and kill at the same time, mainly because I don't have multitasking.
If I tried framing you by roleblocking you, then either no one would die, or I would be paired scum with someone anyway, and the game would be over in a scum win.

[Loftwing]

loft is ww. strange distance from loft if you read loft and strange iso your see they are paired.

[Loftwing]

If I were scum, I couldn't both roleblock you and kill at the same time, mainly because I don't have multitasking.
If I tried framing you by roleblocking you, then either no one would die, or I would be paired scum with someone anyway, and the game would be over in a scum win.

Okay so you see how this plan sucks if you're scum then right

Cause then you just frame me to be mislimmed

Well, if no one dies but it doesn't appear like you jailkept anyone, then it would be obvious that I tried to frame you, and I would agree that I would be killed in that case.

However, I cannot both frame you and kill simultaneously, unless scum have multitasking by default here.

[Loftwing]

I'm definitely not saying this is the best way to organ ize our night actions, and I would be open to anyone else's suggestions (mainly because this has the glaring hole of not actually finding the scum, and also failing if either me or dweelee are pair scum), but for right now I think this is the best we have until Bingle bitch slaps me, tells me I'm wrong, and mechanically solves the game for us.

[Loftwing]

But then if I were scum I could make it seem like you tried to frame me by jailkeeping you

This is a valid point.

Give me a few minutes to think about this.

[Loftwing]

Would it work if you jailkept STD, and I roleblocked Ru and Bingle?

If STD targeted me, then if you failed to act, STD could see if it was because of me or not. And if STD dies, then it must mean that you are scum, because I am not multitasking.

[Loftwing]

What are you hoping to achieve here, with Ru investigating some more players?

[Loftwing]

Ru would be slightly better off investigating Loft in the above case, I think.

I don't particularly understand why Mama Ru investigating me would help with the current game state. What are you hoping to accomplish here, exactly?

[Loftwing]

I guess it would be to see if I am lying about being a Doubled roleblocker, which would pretty definitively out me as being scum.

[Loftwing]

Cyrus, my child, any player here can have any role and be of any alignment. That's like the entire fucking point of the setup.

[Loftwing]

I will give anyone a crisp 100 dollar bill if you can tell me what the

fuck

I just read.

[Loftwing]

What are you hoping to achieve here, with Ru investigating some more players?

In order for the role interactions to have worked out the way they did scum has to have fakeclaimed. Did I not demonstrate that? I'm pretty sure I demonstrated that.

Mqybe STD is our scum healer.