Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Something_Smart]

Superego.

[Something_Smart]

Still waiting to see if anyone figures out what I've decided.

Are you not doing the exact thing you were just criticizing?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I suppose it's fine as long as you explain it eventually.

Whose response exactly are you waiting for?

[Something_Smart]

Now the work begins, and I can’t very well do my best if I clear everything up for you, now can I?

I'm glad your efforts are the only ones that matter then

[Something_Smart]

Has anyone played with her before to speak to this?

No, but I would be very surprised if this were not characteristic.

[Something_Smart]

I think I have a handle on Something_Smart. Not enough to build a whole read on, but a fairly informed opinion that can turn into a read pretty quickly.

Good frickin luck, is all I'll say. It takes most people a long time to get a handle on me.

[Something_Smart]

Serious vote. I don’t like what M is doing that doesn’t mean she’s being the only one that matters. There’s a difference between not liking it and this.

I feel like one of us is misunderstanding here. I was sarcastically pointing out that she was being cryptic in a way that might help her job but makes the rest of ours harder.

[Something_Smart]

I am saying he’s scum because it’s sarcastic.

You're in for a rude awakening then.

I wasn't agreeing with her read on you; I'm not sure where you got that from. It's a put-down, yes. What's scummy about that?

[Something_Smart]

Buddying assumes not genuine, yeah? What makes you think it wasn't genuine?

[Something_Smart]

Reasonable chance neither of {critter, SS} or {critter, Strange} are S/S is all i'm taking from this.

Yeah I was thinking the same way. That's a pet tell that I don't really know is empirically verified, but it makes sense at least.

[Something_Smart]

What about the context?

[Something_Smart]

Lady Lambadelta is Diet Mountain Dew, Macho Activated Innocent Child, aligned with On-Brand (Town)

Omega sigh.

[Something_Smart]

Why the sigh? I was always flipping this day 1, it's literally optimal from my position entering this game. I have been playing with the intention of flipping it early today the whole time.

I mean that's another sigh. It's obviously mechanically suboptimal to have a macho IC flipping D1. I hope the subjective benefits can outweigh that, but I feel like it wouldn't have been that bad for you to at least try to push what you want without flipping and see if you were able to.

[Something_Smart]

Post something interesting

something interesting

Story of how my username was chosen.

[Something_Smart]

normally IC doesn't reveal the whole role tho, lol

But surely she knew it was going to in this case.

[Something_Smart]

The odds of getting shot, getting run up and being forced to use it or just being useless while you sit on it are too high.

None of these seem bad to me.

Regardless, sure we can discuss it after the game, but from a mechanical perspective it's objectively bad. (Which is the one I tend to approach games with wherever possible.) I hope (and trust) that you can make good use of it.

[Something_Smart]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

[Something_Smart]

I’d say yes
Not in a strong sense, mind, but it does apply some pressure IMO

Semantics. It's expressing support, but I wouldn't consider it a push.

[Something_Smart]

Parity Vanilla Cop is still a counterclaim to Cop.

My soul is gonna die if you're town and think this

not sure which head this is, but either way it's believed weirder things. But I'm with you that this is a pretty bad thing to believe.

[Something_Smart]

AND gamma has constantly been calling us a full cop which is 10000000000% role fishing

It's literally not when you said you were a full cop

[Something_Smart]

Jester alignment
Cop role
Flavor tastiest mountain dew

[Something_Smart]

My logic is that you made a joke claim and Gamma sometimes has trouble differentiating between what's a joke and what's serious, so he thought you seriously claimed cop.

Hence why he would talk about your claim as if it were real and demand to know more about it-- if he knew it was a joke there would be no reason to rolefish, because he wouldn't get anything from it.

[Something_Smart]

So much to do
So much to say
But today just isn't the right day
You'll never know if you don't go...

[Something_Smart]

As easy as it is to comment on stupid bullshit, I would love it if someone could direct me to some non-stupid bullshit to give some thoughts on.

I could look myself but it's easier for me if I'm more focused and it's more likely to be something someone cares about, so it sounds like a win-win.

[Something_Smart]

Suggestion-- if you feel that Gamma getting so many townreads is weird, why don't you question the people townreading him and try to understand their reasoning?

That seems more productive than... whatever it is you're doing.

[Something_Smart]

id rather lim skilled scum

Yet you want to vote me?

[Something_Smart]

Something_Silent, I know you're usually like this but you seem to have even less to work with than usual this game. Am I wrong to assume this, and if not, why is that the case?

Mostly just RL distraction, if I'm being honest. Bunch of cool things that aren't mafia popped up at the same time.

Like I said I'm open to suggestions for specific things to look at.

[Something_Smart]

I will definitely be more present tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

Bears v Gamma

Gonna call nope on this. But I will look at the other two.

[Something_Smart]

Judging someone's motivation requires taking the world as they understood it, not as it actually was.

[Something_Smart]

Dunn's opening I already attempted to parse, back when there wasn't much else to look at. I didn't really verbalize any of my thoughts, mostly because I didn't think they were useful.

I think that it's highly likely code red is his real flavor or his fakeclaim flavor. Based on the public information of the game, it being a scum flavor doesn't make sense. I have a hard time understanding why he chose to reveal his flavor, but it's Dunn, so I trust that he did have a good reason for it. I have some theories that I think are better left unsaid?

[Something_Smart]

If by "Kyo's replace in" Critter meant 421, I already talked about that as well, but rereading it I do additionally think ssbm/Dunn is unlikely.

Neither of those things really gave me much. But I should be able to poke around and find some things to get me into the game today.

[Something_Smart]

S_S continues stating obvious things and being scum

That was a direct response to Critter, what did you want me to say

[Something_Smart]

I could look myself but it's easier for me if I'm more focused and it's more likely to be something someone cares about, so it sounds like a win-win.

[Something_Smart]

Wait, Baton Pass?

That was like my strongest scumgame ever :/

[Something_Smart]

But you're right, I've done absolutely nothing that I wouldn't do as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Which is why I'm looking for people who want to engage with me, but responses have not been very forthcoming...

[Something_Smart]

My opinion is that LLD saw she had IC and could barely contain herself, looking for literally anything to pick a fight just so she could go, "Hah!"

There's literally nothing in her claim to suggest scum Dunn, she just needs the bravado to sell it.

I think that this is +town. Maybe even ++town.

[Something_Smart]

Specifically I think it comes from the same point of frustration that my "sigh" came from, expressed in a very different way.

Unless Toog was scum with Dunn (in which case this post is just incredibly brave), having LLD reveal there is a godsend for scum, and I wouldn't expect them to be poking the beehive.

[Something_Smart]

Looking at S_S’s ISO, he kinda pings town in a few spots for now

But you're right, I've done absolutely nothing that I wouldn't do as scum.

*raises eyebrow*

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I guess I have no way to know if 905 is true.

Can you elaborate on what posts you were thinking of?

[Something_Smart]

In what sense? I definitely support keeping things simple wherever possible (when it comes to dayplay, anyway), but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the boiling pots line or why that's the opposite of simplicity.

[Something_Smart]

Ah. I meant having a lot of different things going on. I tend towards trying to keep a lot happening, so I have a wide variety of angles to approach from fluidly. Your approach being more centered on simplicity does make it make sense that you would be stepping back a bit. I hope to see that change today.

I'm pretty comfortable having multiple different things going on as once, as long as they are all individually easy to follow. But I am very rarely the one to actually bring about that state of affairs.

I believe my lack of engagement is first and foremost a product of RL. And I can assure you that the more people engage me and hold discussions that I am interested in engaging in (i.e. not shitfighting a la M&M/Gamma), the more content I'll be able to provide.

[Something_Smart]

You play w/ lilith a lot on the TLDNE hydra, right? How do you rate what she's done so far?

I haven't played with her much recently, and I'm also not sure how much hydraing with someone gives insight into reading them because it's not like I was ever trying to sort her posts.

She hasn't posted much, what she has posted seems pretty average. Was there anything in particular you wanted my thoughts on?

[Something_Smart]

Mostly just trying to elicit some engagement, and I thought you might have some insight about how she approaches town vs scum.

That's fair. The main thing I remember from when we rolled scum was her doing a lot of distancing with our partner (who happened to be skitter, what a coincidence).

[Something_Smart]

City That Never Sleeps

[Something_Smart]

Toog was not. Toog was very townie. That argument with LLD seemed really genuine. I had Toog as top tier town before Kyo reppd in.

I like this, I think.

[Something_Smart]

I don't really get Wisdom's reads this game. I have a lot of respect for him, and I basically sheeped him to victory in 8-ball, but they don't really feel satisfying.

That said, after 8-ball, he's firmly in my "never exe D1" box.

[Something_Smart]

Oh missed S_S in game even with the playerlist in front of me. Idk what to think of him at this point.

This makes me laugh every time I read it

[Something_Smart]

I didn't really find anything else noteworthy. Obviously the replace itself is not alignment indicative.

[Something_Smart]

Why haven't you taken any stance in this game despite at least THREE notable 1v1s the early dayphase pivoted on and multiple points of contention before, during and after?
Why did it take you this long to engage how I was playing directly instead of saying, effectively, "I didn't do it"?
Why does your ISO look like a barren field?
Why are you not scum?

Moderate +town. Reminiscent of Guillotina in Yggdrasil.

[Something_Smart]

A vibe on what?

[Something_Smart]

I'm skeptical of that. It wouldn't be anything but a recap of stuff I've already said with all the nuance removed. But if you still think that might help, I can do it.

[Something_Smart]

Y'all post a lot on my one busy evening a week.

Reading up now.

[Something_Smart]

I think you can do a reads wall/list and keep the nuance. Please.

Okay, I guess...
ssbm_Kyouko
Critter, MUSHSHAGANA
Everyone else
Wisdom

If that isn't satisfying, well, I told you so.

[Something_Smart]

I'm unwilling to make any firm commitments there, but I like calling it town play for now.

Why's that?

[Something_Smart]

his recent scumgame in radio buzz, wherein he coasted for ~2 dayphases on saying a lot of ineffectual nothings and never really sat down and provided reads or tried to solve despite promising to do so.

This feels inaccurate :/ I don't believe I made empty promises there? I think it was more that people kept asking me for more and I was just flat-out refusing to give it. And then I started making mechanical arguments and they went right over everyone's head.

[Something_Smart]

Invest = investigative role.

[Something_Smart]

Wait, which head of VFT made the posts on page 41?

[Something_Smart]

Sometimes town is deliberately scummy.

Very rarely. If you're town, don't do it.

[Something_Smart]

This is me getting frustrated that I'm being scumread for discussing mountain dew in a mountain dew themed game.

Bear in mind that Critter was explicitly presenting it as a gut reaction, and most people's guts are utter garbage. In your position I would not be fazed by that, except maybe to be annoyed at Critter if he acts on an unsubstantiated gut read.

[Something_Smart]

Effort compared to towngames feels very muted

That seems like it's got way too many variables involved to be at all reliable.

[Something_Smart]

every scum flails when they feel they are attacked for the wrong reasons

Transparently false, some people don't flail as scum at all.

And plenty of people flail as both alignments. I don't see why "frustration at being attacked for bullshit reasons" is an emotion reserved for scum.

[Something_Smart]

I understand effort isn't always stable but it feels like a real departure from the norm rn

Have her scumgames also been like this?

[Something_Smart]

lol best you can do is have me as top scumread because you dont understand my reads?

Yep.

[Something_Smart]

Of course not, but it seems like Wisdom is acknowledging that with "the best I can do".

[Something_Smart]

I would like someone familiar with Wisdom scum meta to weigh in on if he openly antagonizes and hard pushes multiple townies as part of his strategy. If ssbm is scum then I'm sure he would be secure in pushing me, any scum can pull off hard bus -> hard push a townie who was defending them. But I'm not sure if he would want to sacrifice enough towncred to push two townies simultaneously/back-to-back (if he does push me tomorrow if ssbm is town, that is).

When I was scum with him, he did push pretty confidently, though he was mostly bussing. But he also didn't play very much and got executed D1.

[Something_Smart]

He hasn't played much with me recently. In our most recent game, I replaced into a town slot on N2 with confident reads (that actually turned out to be perfect).

[Something_Smart]

that is in his scum meta, but he's also just easier to read with some flips imo, so I agree he's "never lim d1" material

Are there any flips you think would help read him at present?

[Something_Smart]

kyouko

How so? Do you not think he'd be bussing her here?

[Something_Smart]

What town says “another player is an invest” with a claimed cop (or two) in the game? I don’t get why you think Kyo is town here?

I guarantee the answer to "what town does X" is "more than you think". I'm sure that I've seen town point out softs before.

[Something_Smart]

Also what claimed cop? Last I was aware of, M&M's claim was still a joke.

[Something_Smart]

Vanilla cop does not equal cop. Not even close.

[Something_Smart]

And ssbm never said that you softed cop. There are plenty of weaker investigative roles.

[Something_Smart]

I have a potential justification in mind for why ssbm would out a perceived soft.

But I might as well let her explain herself before I feed her an answer.

[Something_Smart]

That's... roughly what I had in mind, which is simply that he wouldn't be softing under not much pressure unless he wanted people to see it.

[Something_Smart]

Why are you so insistent on that?

[Something_Smart]

What do you mean, new topic?

[Something_Smart]

No, because I want to know why you want it...?

You're hardly going to convince people to do something by forbidding them from talking about that thing.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, I wasn't referring to talking about your role. I wanted to know why you were in a rush to end the day.

[Something_Smart]

I am saying we should end the day to prevent de facto mass claim.

You are recommending voting two slots who have not claimed, and who likely will if wagoned.

If you're trying to avoid claims, there's no reason those two should be preferable to anyone else, and indeed it would be better to kill someone who's already claimed like Gamma if that's your primary goal.

[Something_Smart]

Those last 2 posts are.... dreadful.

Sadly probably not very AI.

[Something_Smart]

Uh, that was part of a completely different discussion, and it's 100% accurate. I'm pretty sure I know my stuff when it comes to game balance, and vanilla cop and cop are not remotely in the same league in terms of power.

[Something_Smart]

Kyouko is scum, Critter is just bad at showing why

Interesting phrasing.

[Something_Smart]

If I am right on Kyo >85% confidence
You’re scum 75% of the time with her.

Just because they said she's likely town?

I townread her too, so better add me to your shitlist.

[Something_Smart]

There is no way flavor is not important to scum.

Seeing as this game is designed to be normal-adjacent and not highly themed, I doubt this.

[Something_Smart]

their Signal to Noise ratio is way too high for my liking

...way too low, you mean?

[Something_Smart]

You know what I meant. Why are you interrogating this? lol

Just making sure I understand you right.

[Something_Smart]

I wish I wasn’t an alt I could say (thing) and then you’d see my point. This is infuriating.

Lol

World's tiniest violin or something

[Something_Smart]

It also doesn't allow people to qualify their choices or express preferences. I'm really not sure it would be as useful as asking for reads.

[Something_Smart]

So you're going to get people making arbitrary decisions that they don't believe in and that's not going to tell you much.

[Something_Smart]

No one is actually talking to each other they’re talking through each other.

Feels inaccurate to me. If anyone's talking through people it's you.

[Something_Smart]

I have asked you for them in many different ways and gotten stonewalled.

I literally gave you a readlist with links to the reasons when you asked...

[Something_Smart]

I personally think it was fine. Critter was attempting to have his cake and eat it too. You can't simultaneously preserve a secret alt and expect people to treat you the way they would treat someone with 30,000 posts.

[Something_Smart]

That list accurately described my read on every player in the game.

[Something_Smart]

And I can give you my elim pile, but you aren't going to like it.

[Something_Smart]

I mean like, you had a bunch of questionable ideas and then got confused why nobody was listening to you.

[Something_Smart]

I would love it. Even if it’s just me. Because more sorts.

All right, here goes:

Gamma Emerald
Towelie
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha
Venus Fly Trap
Dunnstral
Critter
StrangeMatter
ssbm_Kyouko

[Something_Smart]

When I say we should end the day we should ya know end the day.

If only you had been playing this game on your main, this might have had some weight to it...

[Something_Smart]

Describes Math's towngame

Well if he were playing on his main then it would be reasonable to be confused.

But I think this does check out from my experience.

[Something_Smart]

I disagree with the assessment of Math but why is he in your elimination pile if it appears you are recognizing this as his townplay?

Oh I misinterpreted. I never said that was his townplay? And besides I have you in my elimination pile and I townread you. It's because I recognize that my reads are often bad, and mafia is about teamwork which requires compromise.

[Something_Smart]

Dude just went to my if not Kyo this.
And what do you think I am doing? I have been fucking trying to get reads from people so I can heat map and LLD can do her thing. As much as I want Kyo I am not spamming the thread with Kyo!Kyo!Kyo! No matter the BS she keeps saying. And yeah you have several times said this is my town play in so many words.

This entire post confuses me (except for the third sentence, which I do appreciate)

[Something_Smart]

Er, third sentence of the second paragraph. "As much as I want Kyo..."

[Something_Smart]

Yet bottom of reads list c’mon man.

You did not just deadass ask me for an unordered execution list and then misinterpret it as a read list.

My dude.

[Something_Smart]

As much as I want Kyo I am not tunneling her.

No I get it, that's the one sentence I do understand and appreciate. The REST of that post confuses me. But it looks like you misunderstood.

[Something_Smart]

These literally call me town.

Also, I don't think you know what "literally" means. They do not literally call you town, that is not up for debate.

They do not figuratively call you town either, though that at least is a bit of a gray area. Why would you think I could believe those posts but not believe that you could be scum?

[Something_Smart]

They’re the same thing my dude. Town doesn’t put town at the bottom of the execution list.

I copied from the OP and deleted the people I was not willing to execute (LLD, myself, and Wisdom).

[Something_Smart]

It is because of that.

Basically I just saw him get steamrolled despite having near perfect reads in an execution that almost singlehandedly lost town the game. So I think he deserves at least one day of slack just for the content he'll produce if town, no matter how scummy he looks.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah reread it again because that post is very clear. I am noting my compromising. Not playing word semantics with you and Kyo.

I just went to your if not Kyo this. Extremely ungrammatical, but I gather that I'm now your second scumread behind Kyo. This seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. Do you retract it?
What do I think you are doing? I obviously don't know, you are either trying to advance town wincon or trying to advance scum wincon. Can you be more specific?
You have been trying to get reads to heatmap. Fair enough, that worked for you before, though I'm skeptical whether it will work here. I'm not sure how that's supposed to help LLD.
You are not tunneling Kyo, thank you, I appreciate it.
I have said several times that it's your town play. Also sounds like a misunderstanding. I had you as leantown a while ago but that's it.

[Something_Smart]

Mm.

Do I go reread 1841 or not

I am incredibly tempted to but I do not really feel it will be enlightening.

[Something_Smart]

But she's probably not going to. She's obviously already doing her own thing.

[Something_Smart]

It seems to me that your scumread on me appeared due to a misunderstanding. But the misunderstanding has been cleared up, and you still seem to scumread me. Why?

[Something_Smart]

Why are you so against people stating plainly where they are? I like don’t get this.

I mean people are free to do it, but I just don't think it will be very helpful.

Take my execution list for example. I took the playerlist and deleted myself, the IC, and my top scumread. (And you didn't even remark on that.) How much is that going to really help you?

[Something_Smart]

You thought that my execution list was ordered by read and that I had put you near the bottom, but I hadn't because it's ordered by the playerlist in the OP.

[Something_Smart]

Because I scumread your lack of willingness to be protown and other posts.

I mean, what's protown is subjective, but I did the thing you wanted even though I felt it wasn't protown. That kinda feels like the opposite of this.

[Something_Smart]

My lim pool is, by order of preference:

Highly preferred: Critter
Would eliminate happily: M&M
Still happy with these, but they feel like compromise given the confidence I have in scum!Critter: EMMI/StrangeMatter

deadline compromise: MUSH, S_S, Gamma, VFT

For what it's worth, I feel this is a vastly preferable way of listing elim candidates. My point about nuance still holds-- ssbm and EMMI are both on my execution list, but I would argue against ssbm if at all possible whereas I wouldn't shed a single tear killing EMMI. The format you asked for deliberately ignores that, which is why I think it wouldn't be a great way to model how people actually feel.

But, I still did it, because I understand that sometimes people's methods are beyond my understanding but they still work.

[Something_Smart]

So what do you think this indicates for Critter then? I did assume you were TRing him because of this post, because if that's what I thought was happening, I would TR him for it:

Huh, that's interesting. To me it seems clearly like something that can happen to town or scum. My main point with the post was just that hiding behind the alt was ineffective and it was responsible for some of his problems this game.

[Something_Smart]

You did so and did so badly because you know I am right and refusing further would have looked even worse. You have spent a shit ton of posts complaining about my ask versus just doing it and then going on your merry way.

I mean, that's fair, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that you're going to keep pressing me if I resist it. I knew you were going to, I'd know that as scum, it's not like I could seriously expect to get out of it if for some reason I wanted to.

Quite honestly, that's an egocentric thing to believe-- that I would be so afraid of YOU personally that I would go out of my way to disrupt your scumhunting methods.

[Something_Smart]

I never resisted giving reads. My elimination list wasn't even based on my reads!

[Something_Smart]

I have shared pretty much every read I've formed this game, with the exception of one that I'm deliberately holding back so it doesn't affect people's interactions.

[Something_Smart]

1563 is NAI imo. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

[Something_Smart]

You may be right. My meta on him is very stale though so I wouldn't count it for much at all (if the number of the Math scumgame I was considering rereading-- 1841-- is any indication).

[Something_Smart]

I might have let you have it, especially if I knew you were going for it. I try to avoid pagetops.

[Something_Smart]

You have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair. Are you so spineless literally any elim is acceptable as long as it’s not you? Accepting you’re often wrong is one thing but this just reads super fucking slimy.

Really don't know how to respond to this. Setting aside the question of why you brought my character into this for no reason, I don't see what's objectionable about giving other people's reads that are more confident, more informed, and probably more accurate precedence over mine. ESPECIALLY LLD, because I don't even have to doubt her motivations.

[Something_Smart]

Are you actually giving me shit for doing what Critter asked me multiple times to do?

MUSH is right, it was kind of a defiant "this is what you asked for, but it's not what you asked for".

[Something_Smart]

I think you were in 1841 maybe

I don't understand what you're getting at, yes I was in it, that's why I considered rereading it...

[Something_Smart]

Critter asked for it because he wanted the data. By giving such a response you basically fuck over any attempts to generate anything actionable from it. Copying LLD’s list would have been a better way to actually provide the requested data.

I would imagine I would at least owe it to him to be accurate, though. The list I gave was an accurate reflection of how I felt, which is what he wanted. LLD's list wouldn't have been that.

[Something_Smart]

you don’t even have the guts to stick to any of your TRs!

You're using charged language to imply that this is a bad thing.

[Something_Smart]

And Critter, MM, EMMI and StrangeMatter really doesn't feel like a kill list that flips more than 1 scum ever, if it does flip a scum.

Maybe not, but it seems extremely unsurprising from ssbm at this juncture. Emmi and StrangeMatter are basically free lurker slots that anyone could put into their PoE, Critter and ssbm had their whole thing, and MM is two very polarizing players who have done some polarizing things.

[Something_Smart]

What I find weird about StrangeMatter is they don't feel like they're reading the actual game... they feel like they're name-searching.

Fwiw my game sometimes devolves into this if I get disconnected enough. It's a reasonable thing to do if you're a lower-content player struggling to parse everything.

[Something_Smart]

YES!!! That's EXACTLY what I'm saying! You're avoiding maintaining hard stances at all, which makes you way harder to read because all your reads have that stupid caveat of "eh I might be wrong". I might be wrong too, YOU DON'T SEE ME ACTING ALL SHEEPISH BECAUSE OF IT!

As an authority here, I would like to respectfully disagree that it makes me harder to read.

My rate of getting mis-executed plummeted once I started playing like this. I do it for a reason.

And some people can read me. It's not necessarily easy, but the stuff is there if you know what to look for.

[Something_Smart]

Perspective slip?

Highly unlikely. The post makes perfect sense to me.

[Something_Smart]

The cop joke

was

polarizing. I didn't remember that you were taking that specific line of argument, but it doesn't surprise me for that reason.

[Something_Smart]

Also, if you think it was theater, why is Gamma not in your bottom pool?

[Something_Smart]

why would Gamma CC scum!M&M's claim?

I thought you said the cop claim was theater; with whom would it be, if not Gamma? Or do you just mean that it was performative.

And you have a lot of posts, sorry but I think it's better and clearer to just ask.

[Something_Smart]

well it makes you really shitty to work with, and people I find hard to work with are generally the people I'm more likely to want dead going forwards

I don't believe that most people find me difficult to work with. (Anyone else is free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

If there's anything you want my opinion on, I'm happy to take a look and provide it. But I'm never going to pretend to be more confident than I am.

[Something_Smart]

It's okay, Bell.

[Something_Smart]

Do you by any chance know which posts are referred to in 1927? I do so hate ISO digging.

[Something_Smart]

thatsthejoke.jpg

[Something_Smart]

pooky's right in that we're generally not elimmable so any pressure on us from her is more likely to be legitimate due to that goal being harder to reach

I think that this logic only holds from a particular scum perspective. Everyone always seems to assume that all of scum's moves and pushes are calculated and planned out to score mis-exes or whatever. Some people just try to look town, by doing whatever they think people won't see as a scum agenda. I know for a fact that lilith has done this before; I don't know if skitter has, but it wouldn't shock me.

[Something_Smart]

1965 feels like a lot of words to communicate something that really shouldn't take that many.

[Something_Smart]

Also I have to imagine that if VFT is scum then scum probably aren't very happy with the gamestate.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry maybe I will just be an NT. That’s a switch I can turn off and on.

Doesn't mean you can't make an effort to improve.

[Something_Smart]

The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions

The problem is not that you're sharing your opinions, it's that you're representing your opinions as though they're immutable facts. Please try not to do that, and I imagine things will improve.

[Something_Smart]

To me it seems fairly evident that some people would be comfortable with the gamestate as scum and others would be uncomfortable, and therefore we can't really know whether they are happy with it without having a single flip.

[Something_Smart]

I definitely see what you mean with that, but I'm not sure why the lack of healthy conversation would make scum more prone to pushing someone they can't execute. If anything, I feel like it might go the other way since people are probably going to be more accusatory and less charitable if the conversation isn't healthy.

[Something_Smart]

Is anything on the last couple pages important at all

Depends if you care about sorting Critter and Towelie, I guess.

[Something_Smart]

OK.

We can do different things tomorrow

I can get behind this.

It's quite unfortunate that two people I respect are disagreeing so heavily, but I'm going to have to favor the one who's probably going to be dead tomorrow.

Also, I think I agree with the reads here-- I can follow the town reasoning for SM, but Emmi not so much. But of course it's entirely possible LLD sees something I don't.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's pretty clear what happened; he misinterpreted this section:

I have no doubt that if Venus flips town, Strange will die (I think Strange over EMMI first, but you do you).

Without context that's a very easy misreading to make.

[Something_Smart]

He's already professed to having some language/idea organization issues, so it could just be that he read that at face value and didn't think of the alternate interpretation.

I probably wouldn't read much into it.

[Something_Smart]

Youre better than thinking LLD will die or that you have to sheep her

I literally just won us a game by sheeping you, and that's the only game you've seen me play recently. What do you mean, I'm better than that?

(Also why wouldn't she die? She's conftown and a guaranteed kill, and a strong player to boot.)

[Something_Smart]

Because there are actual prs that can harm scum
If I was scum id def go after those rather than the ic

Differing playstyles I guess, but I think most people wouldn't be confident in their ability to snipe an investigative or killing PR specifically on N1. That's quite difficult to do consistently and pretty bad if you mess it up.

And what do you mean you sheeped me? You played a good game and limd Imaginality. I dont think you did it because of me

It was partially because of you.

[Something_Smart]

LLD posted a very definite “these are my stances for if I die” post, I don’t think the mindset S_S is displaying makes full sense in light of that

I've been around long enough to see how much people respect the reads of the dead (unless they believe they were specifically killed for their reads). I would think that you have too.

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand what you want me to do, then, because the alternative to sheeping her would be sheeping you.

[Something_Smart]

I can, but it's generally a less effective way to play, so I try not to do it.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Venus Fly Trap

[Something_Smart]

The setup obv has a doc

Where did this come from? Did every game in 2013 have a doc?

[Something_Smart]

Not necessarily; it could just be so that scum know they can safely kill her. Unless that kind of thing didn't exist back then.

[Something_Smart]

I know what it means. I'm asking if red herring-ish roles (really closer to a "nudge" that conveys information, i.e. the macho doesn't literally matter but it means scum don't have to WIFOM themselves out of shooting the IC) were a thing.

[Something_Smart]

Even if thats the case it doesnt harm vft to claim doc

I mean, except that they don't get the benefit of this argument you're currently making.

[Something_Smart]

GG, great job LLD. Also great job Wisdom for finding my crumb and pushing that through, I should have made it clearer but you really went the extra mile there.

[Something_Smart]

Subject: Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia - Mafia PT

we're planning to claim 1 shot loyal neighborizer just saying

Lmao Noraa don't think I don't see you stealing my plays

[Something_Smart]

My secret is that I am always prepared to eat shit.

No, for real. Like, if you just accept that there is a chance you’ll take one step and smash your face directly into the ground, there’s no reason NOT to go all in. What’s the worst that can happen, oh, you’ll cartoon-slip on a banana peel in public? Who cares. Prepare for it, count on it if you have to. Write up a speech for when you inevitably fail in the most obvious way possible, and then another speech about how you wrote a speech for failing in the obvious way but you had to go and fail some other fucking way so now you can’t use it.

It seems backwards but it really is the key for me.

Word of warning, I am not sure that this kind of style is right for everyone. It is a team game so if you do something dumb and cause your team to lose they will rightly be mad at you.