Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[skitter30]

VOTE: gypyx the rare scummy inconsistency imo

fwiw he seems pretty out of the game and not like caught up or anything
and i can see a universe whre town-him just forgot what he was thinking about the game earlier

the fact that toog is his preferred vote is kinda lazy but similarly i think it might just be motivated by the fact that gamma voted him right when gypyx started posting again
this isn't, like, good but i'm not sure it makes gypyx scum

[skitter30]

i think it's possible i may be slightly tunneled on the galron slot and want to give unwnd a bit more space rn

in the meantime
VOTE: dwlee

[skitter30]

toog's kinda in too scummy to be scum territory for me and i guess i kinda just think he's better than that as scum?
and would be more informed about general happenings, it's pretty clear he's clueless about everything and isn't making an effort to change that

i don't, like, want him elo but i'm not convinced he's scum either

[skitter30]

reread dwlee, posts feel hollow, had a few things that i didn't really like, don't get a strong sense of a believable, like, process there, thought the read on infinity was not something scum would push in such a mediocre way but it's like, what are they doing here? i don't really get it. downgrade to scumlean, would fade

i kinda forgot dwlee was in this game too this phase tbh but i would vote them too

can you talk to me more about that ead because you thought they were scummy where i was just kind of, meh

also hi

hi!

are you just asking why i scumread them?

[skitter30]

- think their early game was trying to be LAMIST-y / trying to look uninformed about the setup
- making weird votes for which i cannot track their thought processes
- dislike their reactions to people calling them scummy (

the read kinda started a very long time ago and nothing about their content has really improved or made me change my mind

[skitter30]

Toog egging on the votes seemed out of character?

I don't really feel like Toog gets impatient that easily given they spend a lot of time just lounging around and doing things at their own pace.

this is possibly the worst of him for me
but he also, like, doesn't seem to actaully care about who ends up getting those votes which feels the opposite of scummy to me

like i think scum would care more if that makes sense

[skitter30]

skitter Am I tunneled on peta? I feel like their reaction my suspicion of then has just been dismissive and I don't like their complacency with voteparking on ydra.

i think u kinda are, yeah. like i've been reading everything you've been saying about him and idk it doesn't look super compelling to me. i think some of his posts rubbed you the wrong way and it then just kinda spiraled from there

[skitter30]

i wouldn't even call it sheeping so much as voting randomly with a slight bias towards votes he saw recently

and yeah i think he would just be more involved/aware/agenda-y/trying to do stuff as scum

[skitter30]

VOTE: gypyx the rare scummy inconsistency imo

fwiw he seems pretty out of the game and not like caught up or anything
and i can see a universe whre town-him just forgot what he was thinking about the game earlier

sure, but it's unlikely he thinks about the same thing twice and comes to opposite conclusions i think

honestly he seems kinda checked out and i'm not sure he reread the same bits or read further on in toog's iso when he came to the latter conclusion
(like i'm not sure he was thinking about the same exact thing twice)

and i know i've had times where i thought x about soemthi9ng but changed my mind later on
so yeah i don't know if inherently find this scummy

also maybe i'm still biased from the prism iteration of the slot but my overall view of the slot is still +town

[skitter30]

Toog egging on the votes seemed out of character?

I don't really feel like Toog gets impatient that easily given they spend a lot of time just lounging around and doing things at their own pace.

this is possibly the worst of him for me
but he also, like, doesn't seem to actaully care about who ends up getting those votes which feels the opposite of scummy to me

like i think scum would care more if that makes sense

i don't think it's impossible for him to play into that, the fact that he is just treating the game with open disdain is tilting because he's capable of putting in more than he has

i'm partly motivated here because i just got out of an offsite game where someone trolled and fucked around and barely played the game and scumclaimed repeatedly and town leveled themselves out of voting this person and let them make F5 before finally killing them


and like in general it feels like in games here there's been a case where people have had scum against the ropes for non-contributing and have just big brained themselves into thinking the answer has to be something more complicated


and i can't pretend it's guaranteed he's scum but really what he's doing is flat-out unacceptable and the fact that people are just sort of writing him off/giving a pass for it is not ok

oh i don't disagree with you and i'm not giving him a pass
he needs to die before elo

like what he's doing is bad and awful and utterly not helpful
but i'm not convinced any of that makes him scum tho

[skitter30]

also this is more or less my exact feeling on the matter so

maybe i'm wrong then lol

UNVOTE:

kinda think you backed off of this a little too easily

[skitter30]

i think we just need to get 2 consensus scummy people in the chair and that would give us the bset outcome for the event overall

[skitter30]

i mean i'm gonna look at it as a composite of both people, i can't just toss out half of it altogether

and i guess gypyx is just the opposoite for me. it hasn't been good but like it isn't scummy either, and most of what he's doing can be reasonably explained by irl things that he's alluded to (tests, being tired, etc)

i don't know anything about dwlee so i can't speak for any meta there, i'm not sure i've even ever been in a game with them before

[skitter30]

i think we just need to get 2 consensus scummy people in the chair and that would give us the bset outcome for the event overall

If the consensus is Dwlee/Gypyx/Toog because the more involved crowd is off-limits then I don't think it's going end up well

And if the consensus is me then you already know lol. I've been thinking about just letting Ydrasse in, but the only person who really has said 'i think she's scum' point blank is peta. Everyone else is skirting around it or disagrees

that's not the consensus at all, and what i meant is that i dont' really want to put in people's random pet scumreads like peta/ulayna that have been cropping up because i'm not as convinced they will hit scum
and i'm not even convinced that that group has more than like 1 scum

[skitter30]

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

[skitter30]

i mean i'm gonna look at it as a composite of both people, i can't just toss out half of it altogether

and i guess gypyx is just the opposoite for me. it hasn't been good but like it isn't scummy either, and most of what he's doing can be reasonably explained by irl things that he's alluded to (tests, being tired, etc)

i don't know anything about dwlee so i can't speak for any meta there, i'm not sure i've even ever been in a game with them before

Hurt you don't remember me tunneling my kerset/you/cakez solve in C9++

i'm sorry!

[skitter30]

still though, i think that logic applies in the abstract whether or not you've seen someone's meta

i'm sort of wondering where else you're looking if not to dwlee (and maybe me) but then again unwnd hasn't really towntold yet

for the first point: strongly disagree, i think it very much depends on someone's meta and how they're likely to play the game
second point: dwlee/unwnd/dunn maybe ydra maybe maybe you

[skitter30]

wait what

whose consensus

Is this @ me
I already explained I kinda echo chamber’d myself

no it was me agreeing with ulayana's reaction

[skitter30]

i'm not sure anyone's putting you in the poe cuz you're inactive
(that reminds me i am actually wondering where cakez is tho ...)

~
dwlee if you're able to can you give like a bit about why you're liking the not-event-pool slots?

[skitter30]

i think i want to bump peta up to a townlean

~
hope everyone is having a nice time on their vacations :)

pedit well that's not why i am
and on the prior page you listed a group of people who you would be ok shooting each other, so i'm basically asking what you like about the others
@dwlee

[skitter30]

i think i want to bump peta up to a townlean

i knew you'd get there eventually

eventually indeed

[skitter30]

I think I would say no to You/Skitter as executions today peta if it helps

why

[skitter30]

Okay so I went to explain my townreads but it's literally all vibes I remember from over a weekend ago and not like an analysis of anything. I'd just be telling you I like all of them tonally or on a gut level with how they're approaching the thread

that's not enough for me, i'm sorry :(

[skitter30]

also suppose toog really was actually acting jester-y in order to get into the chair last time
why is he still doing it? we assuming scum want to get into the duel?

[skitter30]

atm I'm willing to vote Peta, Dunn, Infinity

why peta

[skitter30]

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

Mindmelding is not as much of a towntell as the memes would suggest

?

[skitter30]

same

pedit ok so why is the fact that he 'fits into a scumteam that sabotaged that even't important

[skitter30]

You said yourself you've never had to read me so why are you convinced you can now if you're really just town lol

fwiw i think this is kinda disingenuous

[skitter30]

pedit ok so why is the fact that he 'fits into a scumteam that sabotaged that even't important

also isn't this every possible scumteam

sorry can you say this again in another way, i'm not sure what you're asking

[skitter30]

ydra's looking a lot better in this interaction than unwnd is

[skitter30]

pedit ok so why is the fact that he 'fits into a scumteam that sabotaged that even't important

also isn't this every possible scumteam

sorry can you say this again in another way, i'm not sure what you're asking

i just feel like any combination of four players in the game could have potentially figured out to sabotage that event if it was like 'you get to redirect kill to whoever and then the executioner chooses again' whether or not gamma or galron were mafia right

maybe not like exactly toog/dwlee/cakez/gypyx but nearly all other combinations, yeah exactly

[skitter30]

VOTE: unwnd

[skitter30]

The moment I choose not to get emotional (e.g my apparent scumtell) and I have peta/Skitter/You all clamoring that I'm backed into a corner and just saying stuff.

Cool.

I'm kinda taking issue with the word 'clamoring' to describe me here

But yeah i do think you're being incredibly disingenuous wrt ydra rn

[skitter30]

here's a reason to vote infinity
she pops in just to drop a vote on Gypyx who randomly showed up in the last few pages and made a mistake
feels like Inf was just looking to drop a vote somewhere and picked Gyp

How are you reading gypyx?

[skitter30]

I mention 'hey what about Cakez/Saber they're scummy'

I get feedback of 'nah don't agree' from most people. I think I would still want those two? But I'm

literally

not in a position to be calling shots like that and I'm not egotistic enough to believe I am. I went to Infinity/You as a secondary because you were a topic I wanted more focus on and I do have gut reasons to not really like Infinity. Maybe it's my bad the way I startled you but damn.

If my words are coming off ineffective I will try my best to pool everything together and start

over.

- i think you'd probably have had better luck trying to push cakez over this infinity/ydra thing honestly
- realoy dislike the bolded

[skitter30]

Drunk-cakez freaking out is probably town, not sure i like unwnd's pivot there

[skitter30]

Well it feels like we have been talking in circles for several 10's of pages

Uh i would say tonight decidedly does not feel like that actually

Do u habe any thoughts on any of this unwnd - ydra - cakez thing?

[skitter30]

I'm confused with

Ydra

. I had the thought that they wanted to be in a duel, so the persecution of

unwnd

feels hard to follow?

I thinj she's being a little bit mercurial but got fired up/engaged when unwnd pushed her, so once she found a scumread she felt good abt she wanted to make rhat happen

[skitter30]

Oh, what the hell.

VOTE: Cakez

The two-ended admission of bussing is very on the nose.

Plus my self-vote is at best distracting with less payoff the longer it is on.

?
I thought he was p townie tonight

[skitter30]

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

Dwlee

[skitter30]

I dont see it :(

[skitter30]

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

[skitter30]

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

[skitter30]

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

[skitter30]

This post is terrible and I came out of my silence to directly tell you

Do go on

[skitter30]

:thumbsup:

[skitter30]

Got hired today

Feeling good about myself after being stuck in COVID drought

Why not spend the body high on some fucking mafia? I'll be doing a hard dive while I repeat this new LUM album

Yay congrats!!!!!

I'll be around a little later

[skitter30]

@uwnnd at this point these are the issues i have with your slot:
(galron bits you admittedly cannot respond to, but i'm being exhaustive)
- galron's day1 was very lackluster: he never got into the game, and his willingness to hammer gamma despite that + not having a read on him felt very premature and oppurtunistic
- still somewhat baffled how your entering pov of the game makes sense, coming into the game and using your own opposing wagon as anchor to get into it is pretty ???
- feel like you were pretty disingenuous with ydra last night in an effort to push her
- now you're using quite a lot ate to get out of being in the duel, and trying a lot of other pushes to see if something will stick

and just altogether i'm having a hard time seeing your slot being town rn

[skitter30]

@peta wrt your sircakez case:

cakez is quite clearly not invested in the game, and i think that most of your issues with the depth of his thoughts functionally stem from that.
the issue i'm having with the conclusion that he's scum because of it is that we have gypyx + toog + dwlee to a similar extent playing in a very similar way, and i don't think they're all scum.

cakez' is uninvested and shallow, yeah. i'm not coninvced that's inherently scum-indicative

tonally/emotionally i think he's being very honest about his thoughts and feelings and approach to the game, and i still like his mortal kombat thing from last night
i don't think he's scum and i don't think i can vote him here

[skitter30]

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia I think they're being protected by scum. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

also i read this and just kinda went :huh?:
i don't think taly is being theatrical/processed at all, and i don't' think he's getting townread for 'weirdness' either
and where do you see 'protected by scum' ? like what does that mean and where is that happening

[skitter30]

I think Skitter is very not afraid to put her stake in things but that makes it dangerous because

I've seen her do so to dissuade town

. It's just this dismissive attitude that is rubbing me wrong and I wish it didn't.

bolded: whree have you seen this happening?
second sentence: my apologies if i'm being dismissive, i will try to be better

[skitter30]

{Gamma}
{Gypyx, Dwlee, Ulyana}
{Dunnstral, Ydrasse, Infinity, Peta}
{Skitter, Taly}
{Toog, Saber, Cakez}

i just kinda look at this and go ???? because it doesn't vibe with my sense of the gamestate at all

pedit ok i can drop it if you don't want to do this. i don't think i can unvote at this time tho

[skitter30]

They were already getting an extra free kill if Gamma is scum and just gets to execute whoever the hell they want lol

well, not if scum-gamma wants to live afterwards?

[skitter30]

i don't care if he's uninvested he's capable of stringing togethere coherent reasoning and what he's shading people for is just scummy

or i guess another way of saying what i'm thinking about him:

that c9++ game he just exuded 'ahhhhhh i don't wnat to be here i will do the bare minimum to pretend that i'm town!!!1!' but like he actually pretended to put in the effort and *tried* to look like he cared in a townie way
whether or not he managed to is an entirely different storey, but that's what he did there

here he's univnested, doesn't seem to really want to play (?) but is completely open about it. he's not trying to make this look like anything deeper or better than it actually is. he's here when he's here, and he's open about his thoughts and what he's willing to do. he's gonna read the game at surface level and just say whatever old thing pops into his head

i think scum-him would at least try to mask the 'ahhhhh i hate this' vibe and try to make himself look a *little* bit better

[skitter30]

I'm more often endgamed than I am mislimmed.

i was miselimmed once very sad experience +(

skitter was even trying her hardest to save me!

which game?
and i try!

[skitter30]

i would put dunn instead of cakez yeah
i don't think i want infinity there

[skitter30]

Skitter what is your read on Peta.

probably town

[skitter30]

sorry, uninvested may have been the wrong word

i meant more like 'has a limited amount of time/brain energy to focus on this so just says what he thinks when he is here'
i probably could have said that better

[skitter30]

Anyways, about Skitter. I just disagree with her. I disagree with her a lot and often. Does disagreement need to be the reason why she is scum? No. No I didn't want to believe that, and I was trying to find compromise and not end up in a situation like Siege where I backed out of my townread of her because we came to a disagreement. I think Skitter is very not afraid to put her stake in things but that makes it dangerous because I've seen her do so to dissuade town. It's just this dismissive attitude that is rubbing me wrong and I wish it didn't.

also since you're not responding to my earlier question i just want to say that i take significant issue with most of this, especially coupled with how you're interacting with me now

[skitter30]

also Toog just doesn't really feel like scum here and it seems like my scumreads are trying to get him into the duel pool when that would be a frankly very unhelpful elim today

this ^

[skitter30]

Also skitter is scum for the awful infinity read seriously

because ?

[skitter30]

i really don't think cakez is scum here

[skitter30]

Heya i vastly prefer peta over infinity

Kinda busy irl today but i'll try to be around (a lot) later tonight

[skitter30]

how many scum do you think are in the pink room, skitter

Max 1, i would be shocked if there were more than that

I wanted peta, unwnd/nu-gamma, or saber. From the blue room i'm townreading gamma and cakez the most, and ydra/gypyx to a lesser extent.

My room was all over the place and i cant imagine a 6 person pt with 2+ scum being unable to cough up a 3 person wagon, which we were utterly unable to do

Also i am significantly more sus of taly after the pt, i would just like to say
Toog did look better in the pt too fwiw

@gammagooey i see ur question but realistically will not be able to get to it until tomorrow , just fyi

[skitter30]

Yeah that's the vibe i got

Like 2 scum van just be aligned on wanting one person + any given townie would have made the 'nomming' wagon and that just didn't happen

And the lines that split the pt were just really weird and complex and idk didn't really feel like people were working together

There's prob like 1 tho cuz i dont think all scum were with u guys either

Also i do think there's something weird going on in taly/dwlee

Pedit @ydra

[skitter30]

Yeah also i dont remember taly wanting cakez, he was pushing ydra a whole lot

[skitter30]

Literally everyone except like u and maybe gypyx

[skitter30]

I feel like it’s possible 2 scum were in the pink room and since the wagon was landing on Infinity, who is sussing Saber, the scum in the pink room just wanted an opponent that wouldn’t get votes over infinity.

That's a, uh, outlandish theory

[skitter30]

Why would scum need to? Scum working together or seeming like they're working together in the PT seems actively bad and if there are two scum in Pink that means they only have to not nom a single person in blue team. and if all 3 scum were in pink obv they don't have to give a shit about the nom at all.

We literally couldnt make anything happen. If 2 scum were in there i think things would have been more cohesive. Dont think that would have made them look aligned

And if all 3 scum were in pink they practically could get whatever townie they wanted in your pt nommed, its a free nom on a townie for them practically

[skitter30]

i think it goes without saying that in a world where i have 2 teammate in pink thread i am not where i am. i would go so far as to argue it doesn't happen if i have even if i have one there given how incoherent it seems to have been

but then, the theory that pink is clean is pretty ridiculous too because it would suggest that i went all in hardcore powerwolfing for the sake of...making my teammate the second wagon in the even anyway, after spending a good chunk of time defending him. it makes no sense as any kind of rational scum play on my part.

I mean it was not at all easy to make u the nom, i'm not really sure what yoj're trying to say with ur first point

And yeah i dont think the pink room is entirely empty either, like i said earlier i think there's 1

[skitter30]

oh, I'm getting BoP'd on my few scum games. Love it.

Not a good reaction to that ...

[skitter30]

did anyone in the other thread do analysis on the wagon movement at the end of phase 2, since that seems to have been a point of interest for at least some of you

basis of my defense of you as no real reason for you to basically choose dunnstral to be in duel then push end of day even if you progression on dunnstral wasn't exactly transparent

i feel seen

thank you



fwiw, re: my progression on dunn, i went to review his scum games, including Isekai mafia, which at the time was still in progress. i then checked back here and realized that while his posts had seemed fine to me in the moment, the body of work wasn't great and he had done something that was incredibly scummy for him and made me change my mind. i didn't feel it was necessary to burn the tell (it's deeper than just inactivity, he lurks as either alignment and it was why i was so hesitant to vote him for a long time), so i didn't explain it, and at any rate anything after his flip would be post hoc justification that wouldn't be hard to fake as scum. but that was my thinking at the time

Very much disliked the timing of ur dunn suspicion

[skitter30]

And how it came on the heels of pushing cakez and dropping it shortly thereafter

[skitter30]

vla for a couple of days, i'm sick :(

[skitter30]

Ty <3

[skitter30]

Holy fuck is catboi Peta ....

o.O

[skitter30]

can someone on the blue team plz explain to me how infinity got nommed, and why? like who were the main pushers / who was voting her?

[skitter30]

oh! i'm sorry

[skitter30]

i literally do not let myself get put up with a 2 vote wagon, that's the damn point. i'd be micromanaging the absolute hell out of my teammate in that topic. i. would. not. allow. you. to. nominate. me.

honestly i'm not so sure how easy/possible it would be to do this given the sheer amt of discord in my pt

okay great

that is what i do

i pressure people, i get responses, i change my mind. that's how i play. i thought cakez was scum and then after a short time arguing with him i changed my mind

i probably don't flip on dunn as scum there because, what's the point of some half-assed in-between cred crab at that point in time, either i pull out everything to save him or i turn against him and throw him under the bus a lot sooner

but i literally don't care that i was wrong on dunn for a big chunk of the game, i got there in the end with the second vote of the game and a little bit of luck, i am happy with the result

r.e. sircakez i think you should have gotten to town-him quite a lot earlier than you did, and were pushing him for quite bad reasons - it looked to me like you kept trying to make him vialbe, and when that just wasn't happening but dunn was starting to become a thing, you decided go there instead

[skitter30]

Dunn gets in duel with or without infinity

we argued abt this already at great length but i don't they vote him as a partner there, and their vote was the one that made dunn get into the duel ..

[skitter30]

anyway i think in all likelihood if there's scum split between the rooms they likely knew it was going to be incredibly hard to find a target in the blue room that people would support and that likely goes a way toward explaining the discordance of the pink room. theories about its purity are unmoored from reality, especially if toogeloo is town, because there's usually someone avoiding the wagon

>.> you can't argue this but also tell me you're not scum because you wouldn't have allowed yourself to get nommed

[skitter30]

No, it wasn't. We had like 5 on dunn

there were 3 and i'm p sure infinity's vote was the one that took unwnd out of the duel in favor of dunn

[skitter30]

Skitter's reasoning for pink not having 2+ scum is terribad. If there are 2 scum, why would they want to appear aligned to push something through when they could just let it be and town in our hood is unlikely to guess the exact 1/8 person. And if that person IS picked, they could still work together if needed to avoid that. I mean look at the vote count, I thought it was ydrasse and that could have easily been avoided if true by any scum even if taly hadn't unvoted unless scum are already both on someone (which then contradicts the logic that they weren't consolidating with each other)

2+ people voting together does not inherently make them look aligned (otherwise we could use this argument on everyone whoever ended up the same wagon together) + i think scum with more control over the pink room would have used the oppurtunity to get a nom on whatever town player they wanted in the blue room

like yes it's unlikely that 3-4 town in a 2+ scum pink room land on the exact last scum in the blue room, but it's also silly to suggest that that many scum would not have taken the oppurtunity to get a nom on whover they wanted in the other room.

[skitter30]

sircakez/peta/toog

no

[skitter30]

Okay so very recently
Can I point out that aside from infinity herself, no one has said they’re voting peta? I’m also the only one who’s voted to abstain. And we’re worried about scum manipulation of the ballot

how exactly

?

i'm voting peta and think that something fuck-y happened in your pt for infinity to be the nom now when it doesn't seem like that many people are scumreading them anyways

[skitter30]

i could see his thought progression there and i felt like it came from a genuine place of trying to reconcile the two different worldviews

i guess my issue is that i *don't* follow his thought process there and it looked like he just kept wanting to find a way to circle back to voting ydra

i also feel like although i *tried* to engage with him on whatever was troubling him r.e. you/me/dwlee/ydra, i never really got responses/engagement back, but instead he just reiterating the same point over and over again while ignoring my attempts to try to sort through whatever the issue was

[skitter30]

Gypyx is welcome to add context/more info, quick rephrase fmpov: Dunn/Toog interactions during the duel were awkward but prob not scum theater, b/c Dunn putting in effort to do the whole *I have thought through everything and here is my detailed explanation for all the possibilities* would have been followed by more than Toog spinning the barrel if they were both scum together.

fwiw i agree with this + don't think dunn would have tried to justify the shot that way if toog was his partner

[skitter30]

And if she is town, I want to work with Skitter. But her posts about outlining suspicion with my progression over Dwlee without digressing into it and saying my reaction to peta was bad without looking at the following posts that narrated my viewpoint, vexes me.

i feel like i described my issues r.e. dwlee in the pt, no?
also you weren't getting bop'd by your scumgames so that post felt somewhat straw-man-y + the annoyance felt out of place

pedit ok

[skitter30]

saber's tilt is nai but her content is just kinda ~lacking~ tbh

[skitter30]

Wait, why does

Infinity

bus a partner here?

>.> literally my argument in the pt that you kinda ignored ...

[skitter30]

We suspect that scum killed

Pooky

as a result of the sabotage.

Did scum also cause Gamma to be sabotaged as well? I guess that would make sense.

harley i think it's more important to figure out how you're going to vote this phase than anything else tbh

[skitter30]

Call it whatever you like but I haven’t read much of the game and still don’t understand how these events work.

right now, in this event, you need to decide whether you want infinity or peta to die (i recommend peta). they're effectively gladiated and one of the 2 will die

[skitter30]

can someone on the blue team plz explain to me how infinity got nommed, and why? like who were the main pushers / who was voting her?

saber led off the vote saying infinity's vote on dunn looked like a bus


i followed despite my own reservations about saber which are now extremely clear because i didn't like infinity's trajectory and wasn't going to avoid a vote just because i suspected the person leading it

all of cakez/ydrasse/gypyx were okay with it for their own reasons they can elaborate on it if they want

gamma loudly objected, unwnd had suspected infinity but was actively avoiding the wagon and looking at other people because of his scumread on saber

ok then i'm significantly more sus of the saber/harley slot

[skitter30]

Dunnstral/Toogeloo isn't the worst result in the world. I think Toogeloo is >random-contestant but at the end of the day they're doing absolutely nothing for the contestants and it's not like what they're doing is hard to fake by any means. It's hard to justify them making it to endgame basically.

Dunnstral has just been somewhat lacking and may have sliped about secret insider stagehand info in the first phase, and may also be the reason Pooky died.

VOTE: Dunnstral

if anything this is a bus vote, it wasn't integral to the outcome but basically looks like she wanted to make sure she looked like she supported a dunn wagon

[skitter30]

r.e. sircakez i think you should have gotten to town-him quite a lot earlier than you did, and were pushing him for quite bad reasons - it looked to me like you kept trying to make him vialbe, and when that just wasn't happening but dunn was starting to become a thing, you decided go there instead

we clearly don't think alike so i don't really care where i "should" be reading someone as town on your timeline, i don't care about being first or even getting credit really i just want to arrive at the right answer on my timeline


and i don't even blame you for thinking that about my timing on picoting to dunn, but that's at best a Weight of Sin read against me for being wrong for a big chunk of time, not, like, any play that actually makes sense as scum. either i'd turn on him a lot sooner or i'd keep defending him, i wouldn't expect a late capitulation to help that just seems like the worst of both worlds

maybe 'timeline' was a bad phrasing, the point is that you were pushing cakez for bad reasons but when that wasn't happening you hopped off.
and i don't think that dunn was in a place where partners could reasonably continue to defend him given the support he was getting at that point

like if dunn ever flipped (and did!) defendign him there would look worse than flipping imo

[skitter30]

2+ people voting together does not inherently make them look aligned (otherwise we could use this argument on everyone whoever ended up the same wagon together) + i think scum with more control over the pink room would have used the oppurtunity to get a nom on whatever town player they wanted in the blue room

like yes it's unlikely that 3-4 town in a 2+ scum pink room land on the exact last scum in the blue room, but it's also silly to suggest that that many scum would not have taken the oppurtunity to get a nom on whover they wanted in the other room.

If scum push different mislims then they can argue for them later!! Why would scum need to consolidate on the same person??? The lack of cohesion does not indicate lack of 2+ scum, i think it indicates there ARE more scum

i strongly disagree but i don't think we're ever goin gto see eye to eye on this

[skitter30]

i thought it was infinity's vote that tipped the dunn wagon over >.>
my mistake

i don't know if that really changes my mind on either of you tho

[skitter30]

sounds good

i still take issue with the timing of your dunn scumread even if your vote was the one that technically put him over

[skitter30]

i thought it was infinity's vote that tipped the dunn wagon over >.>
my mistake

i don't know if that really changes my mind on either of you tho

And I don't know if this changes my mind that

Dwlee

has a point about you being scum.

i mean i feel like you've been wanting to come to this conclusion for a while

[skitter30]

dwlee at this point i can very easily say the same thing to you, voting me in elo will lose the game if ur town

[skitter30]

i thought it was infinity's vote that tipped the dunn wagon over >.>
my mistake

i don't know if that really changes my mind on either of you tho

And I don't know if this changes my mind that

Dwlee

has a point about you being scum.

i mean i feel like you've been wanting to come to this conclusion for a while

I just don't understand why this isn't a good reason for you reevaluate here if you're town. It feels agenda based.

i was wrong abt the order of the votes on dunn, sure
that still doesn't change the fact that timing of peta's scumread on dunn was bad, or that i dislike most of trajectory in the duel either

infinity's vote wasn't the only reason i was townreading them, and i think that her play post-pt this phase was quite townie for her too

between the 2 i'd still want peta. i don't think i'm voting infinity here

[skitter30]

sounds good

i still take issue with the timing of your dunn scumread even if your vote was the one that technically put him over

ok great realistically you should not be scumreading me here at this point by any stretch of the imagination and plowing full speed ahead anyway means you just straight up aren't trying to read me

i still do tho

[skitter30]

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

VOTE: Dunnstral
I think we should do this

Can we put infinity and Dunnstral in the shootout please?

Stop this shit fight and flip infinity/dunn please. Cakez is town for agreeing with me on both of these reads

I'm gonna try a pooky trick: this day phase should end by page 130, preferably with Dunn and infinity being the ones shooting each other. If you disagree, stop doing so

not sure what you're point is, i've been calling you town for quite a long while

[skitter30]

literally can't reeval unless I see y'all's flips.

you're literally about to get my flip and are already talking about how you're not going to re-evaluate

like i guess skitt could still be scum here but you're really about to learn that you spent the whole game in a garbage tunnel and are about to run headlong into another tunnel

Second time's the charm? Seriously though Skitter's defense of you is gross regardless of your alignment, I don't think I need to reeval there. If I had a skitter green flip I'd more seriously consider you maybe being town but we don't live in that world

and infinity's town. you've been wanting to teamread me/them since like p10 and i still think quite a lot of this stems from you still wanting to be right on that

i know your'e wrong on me. i'm p confident that you're wrong on her, and that you're still gonna want to be pushing me after she flips town. like i think you want to scumread this pair at this point and you're not really listening to me and i'm not sure what else i can do abt it at this point

pedit yes >.>

[skitter30]

sounds good

i still take issue with the timing of your dunn scumread even if your vote was the one that technically put him over

ok great realistically you should not be scumreading me here at this point by any stretch of the imagination and plowing full speed ahead anyway means you just straight up aren't trying to read me

i still do tho

ok great it's coming back on your head and no one should allow you to squirm your way out of it

i try to avoid this ego based read crap but for certain people it's inevitable and you're blowing past about a dozen red lights that should be giving you pause

in the event that you flip, i will take responsiblity, yes
this is what i think, and this is what i'm pushing, and if your flip happens it's cuz of me. if i'm wrong i am wrong and will eat the consequences at that point
(also pointing out that it doesn't seem particularly likely that you're actually gonna get flipped here, so not sure what you're worrying about ...)

[skitter30]

You were hypothesizing me scum in the pink chat I thought...

Okay NVM your first thing there was saying you "feel better" about me there

Skitter

susses me a good bit at this point.

i don't remember you wanting dunn at all

[skitter30]

(also pointing out that it doesn't seem particularly likely that you're actually gonna get flipped here, so not sure what you're worrying about ...)

i think it's more up in the air than many believe and i am covering my bases in the event you get what you want

fair enough

[skitter30]

i'm more than a little bit annoyed that infinity died last event

~

If four successive town players reach the other side before scum make a kill, all scum die.

i was kinda thinking at first that this like coalition where we want to vote in 4 people we think are town to just auto-win but then i realized that scum are just gonna kill someone they find annoying/threatening in the first 4 crossers to prevent that from happening.

i think the best way to use this is to figure out who the 4 sketchiest people are and not-cross them in order to mass-resolve generally suspicious slots, and then by default cross over everyone else

this is probably a good time to resolve toog tbh. saberslot i think should be uncrossed as well
i'm still kinda suspicious of taly too

~

also the event mechanics are really cool @tweetie! the art for each event is so evocative :)

[skitter30]

i had thoughts on skitter while the thread was locked


and the thought was does skitter really go all out trying to elim me there as mafia using terrible logic when she knows i'm likely to react explosively and have her thread standing be completely obliterated

go through that trouble when it's a t/t cross

and the answer is probably not because i think she'd play it more strategically than that

but i'm still incredibly annoyed at it all

upon reflection i am willing to admit that i may have been tunneled on ur cakez push event 2 (whatever event dunn died)

[skitter30]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

[skitter30]

I still don't quite follow your progression on me.

i don't quite folow your progression in the pink pt on me or infinity, or why you kept trying to make ydra happen, and your interactions with dwlee feel weird

[skitter30]

SKITTER can you give me like a timeline/summary of who you were suspecting and how strongly through events 1-3? (also I might just call them days 1 and 2 later because that feels correct to me)

I still want this when you have time btw. I don't really understand your read progression on either of peta or infinity at the moment and going through some of your thoughts about them (and any other strong reads) from previous days would help me out a lot with that

basically day1 i was mostly suspicious of your slot (the galron iteration) - he wanted to flip gamma without having a read there and wasn't really trying to solve, and felt just generally lacking as compared to radiobuzz . i didn't like unwnd's entrance, felt like he was trying to make cakez flippable, and felt like his approach to solving to the game didn't make much sense from a town-him's pov. i didn't really see the posting in the blue pt that people are raving about but your iteration seems a little bit better from what i've seen here.

infinity i was kinda suspicious of early game for not really trying to read me. in prior games they would make it a priority to try to solve me and would read me off of how i was trying to read them but that whole interaction/dance wasn't really happening this game, which made me somewhat suspicious because i thougth town-them would almost always do that, while scum-them would be a little too gun-shy to do that
i started feeling better abt her ~mid-day2 iirc because they were just kinda making good observations at the right time, and seemed to be trying to solve, and trying to help other people solve
and ultimately i don't think they end up on dunn eod there, i don't think they cast that vote to put a partner in the duel there

the other gamma is fairly obviously town from how he went about his decision in the chair phase.

cakez i've liked for most of the game despite a whole bunch of people trying to flip him earlier. his thinking was admittedly ~shallow~ but i think it was genuine and more a product of being busy he was irl - i liked how open he was about his thought processes, about how annoyed he was about how fast the game was moving, and he was just very guileless overall

peta i didn't really have thoughts on for most of day1, the phase where dunn got nommed i really didn't like his cakez push because i felt like he ought to have been townreading cakez by that point, and i didn't like how he dropped it in favor of dunn at the time that he did. i may have gotten a little tunneled, i realized over the night.

ydra i don't think interacts responds to unwnd's push on her the way she did as scum. there's no reason there for her to really have such an aggressive emotional response as scum, but i think it makes sense if she felt wrongly pushed as town and was annoyed

saber's slot has just kinda been around and just making kinda polished observations without follow-through and without really having an underlying thought process. kinda reminds me of scum-lilith in that way tbh. harley's entrance was focusing on the wrong things and was kinda scummy in that i think it's easier for scum to focus on mechancis in a game like this than figure out what their reads ought to be

i think those are some of the big ones

[skitter30]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

Dwlee was pushing you+infinity? Mostly infinity but you were also part of that (prolly because of your history)

i think they're absurdly tunneled and haven't gotten over a read they made on like p10. they're posting and solving has been good otherwise

[skitter30]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

i'm confused about the two non gamma people there, from your pov

i think i mentioned them both above and i'm not sure i understand 'confused' here but:

i don't think that scum-ydra reacts the way she did to unwnd's push on her. yes she can fake the emotional stuff etc but i don't think there's a reason for scum-her to feel the need to get emotional there at all, i think it makes a lot more sense that she was town who get annoyed at him

i think dwlee's pov of the game is really backwards and that they get tunneled too easily, but even though their pov is *wrong* it's carrying through their posts and motivates how they're approachign and solving the game.

also i realized i forgot about cakez when i wrote this, cakez should cross too

[skitter30]

Skitter, I've felt that I've been very consistent in being pro-Dwlee before the PT occurred. I instinctively trusted their POV of the game at the time beyond the rest of the PT when I otherwise was doubting my own perception of pink team being all town. I figured their tunnel on you/Skitter was an invisible strategy to take as scum because that only harms their credibility by pushing known misims OR if they were a partner of either of you, it would be odd to bus when nobody bit onto the read at the time.

I don't know the context of you and Infinity's history well, so when I read the moment Dwlee saw you two as potential partners (around the moment you suspected Infinity for their tone), it made me rethink your slots because Infinity has been tonally different than town games I've seen before, and I had difficulty parsing your progression as well as your push for Peta in the PT when you acknowledged that Cakez/Unwnd was T/S.

My vote on Ydra was largely motivated to consolidate with Dwlee when I wasn't convinced of peta, began to lose trust in my read on both of you, and didn't think Cakez was a slot people entertained.

Granted, I'm annoyed at my play here because I spent half the PT just replying to people to justify my suspicion of Ydra, and got frustrated when I felt like people were just dismissing me by staring that Ydra's alignment was obvious when it wasn't to me.

And that helped my confbias into a potential Ydra+Infinity and/or Skitter mentality at the time.

i guess the part that i'm having trouble with is why you're kinda molding your pov of the game off of dwlee's here
like that's the bit that i'm not understanding

[skitter30]

i'm feeling the best abt gammaemerald ydra and dwlee presently, and they definitely should cross

Dwlee was pushing you+infinity? Mostly infinity but you were also part of that (prolly because of your history)

i think they're absurdly tunneled and haven't gotten over a read they made on like p10. they're posting and solving has been good otherwise

If Dwlee is scum I most certainly don’t wanna reward “tunneling” two slots I sorted as town quite early on and outside of a concern on you via being in a spot I thought scum would be more likely to populate, have continued to be town for me

i'm sorry i don't know if i follow this, can you say it again?

[skitter30]

Yea to be clear that post was not something I copied from infinity or anyone. I just typed it. I have nothing against infinity and I like them as a person, I just thought they were scum here for tonal reasons which I guess I was wrong about but I'm not gloating about it by trying to make posts like that and I'm a little annoyed that you think I would do that to disrespect someone

i don't *think* this is directed at me either but if so, sorry, didn't mean to imply that if that's what you got from my posts

[skitter30]

they weren't going to flip scum and i was annoyed that that they were in the event and i was annoyed that they died, and i feel all of that irrespective of my read on u

[skitter30]

heya my wim and motivation isn't super high rn but if anyone wants to chat i'm around

fwiw i'm actually feeling better about taly this phase - i kinda like how he keeps newly understanding the rules and how that immediately influences how he's approaching the events/who should cross.

[skitter30]

harley toog
maybe gypyx

which i'm aware probably doesn't contain everyone but that's where i'm at rn

[skitter30]

i feel like my poe is narrowing and that i'm probably townreading scum somewhere but idk who it is because i townread too many people at this point tbh

[skitter30]

i know, i need to do a bigger reset but i just plain don't have the motivation for it just now
but i do think that leaving all 3 behind will net at least 1 scum (like i don't think i'm *that* off) so i don't feel too bad abt it tbh

r.e. sircakez: most of what he was getting scumread for was basically nai, and i felt like you were fixating on things thta looked bad on like a 'shallow' level but weren't really
like i remember you just basically calling him empty and hollow and making bad observataions but i don't think those things were ai for him in particular and especially not in the context of 'he's busy irl and isn't ~focusing~ too much on the game'
so it kinda looked like u were trying to find things that looked bad on some level
and his response to ur push was townie but you kept pushing it for a while

[skitter30]

Everybody is voicing the same 3-4 people that they are ok with uncrossing. So why does nobody agree on who should cross?

i think there's a few consensus scumreads so it's easier to find commonality amongst the people who oughtn't be crossing but the top townreads aren't as consensus so it's harder
and there's differieng strategy on how the crossing should work, etc

i don't think we should focus *too* much on the crossing order tbh because scum is just probably going to kill the first person crossing they think is somewhat threatening, it matters more who doesn't cross

pedit i think scum is always incentivized to kill because why wouldn't they take a kill offered, no?

[skitter30]

it was literally 24 hours realtime and i can't really just slam the brakes right away although i did come around eventually


i'm well aware that he's often not nuanced but it seemed at the time that there was little thought behind what he was saying and his game was mostly shading a ton of people which i felt was decently scummy (and, like, a brief refresher on the games i had played against him shows he

is

capable of more advanced thoughts than "thing bad" "thing good"). in hindsight i was probably collapsing context on him by just going through his iso for his attacks on people and not the trajectory

and when you say i was "trying to find things that looked bad", that's...just what scumhunting is? i go through what people say and look for things i find suspicious. if you're trying to say i was forcing a case, well, the problem is that i'm still not sure i necessarily understand what you think i was

missing

there - you can say the stuff i was pushing isn't AI but that doesn't really mean i should have been finding him towny as you seem to have implied

i'm not talking about just that 24 hour timespan, you started pushing it a while prior (~ the begining of the dunn event iirc? i don't remember exactly)

also maybe i phrased it badly, but 'trying to find things that looked bad' != scumhunting, or at least, that's not what i meant by it. i meant that it looked to me like you were looking at cakez' iso and reading it in the worst possible light, and usign that to push him, when there were other, more charitable, ways to read what he was doing that you chose to ignore
i also remember pointing out that you were pushing cakez for this specifically when there were like 3 other people doing the exact same thing (dwlee, gypyx, toog iirc), so it looked like you were picking and choosing who to push for that

like i said before it basically looked to me like you thought you had found osmething to push, and were just trying to take it as far as you could, when those weren't real/significant/ai reasons to scumread him

and his reaction to the big case you wrote was townie, yeah

[skitter30]

things being somewhat consensus-y, even among the people being left out, ought to be ringing alarm bells

i mean it kinda is, i did just say that i think i'm townreading scum somewhere
but i do think there's at least 1 in that group of 3

[skitter30]

because ...

[skitter30]

There's also a moment where she even mentions choosing crosses so quickly that scum cannot respond effectively, and that's a ballsy POV from scum that does not align with Ydra's otherwise relaxed demeanor.

in the same post she literally said scum-her had suggested something similar in a differnet game

[skitter30]

that doesn't make any sense

[skitter30]

sorry the because was to HQ, not you @taly

i'm saying that you can't townread her for 'that being too ballsy for scum-her to suggest' when we have an example of scum-her doing exactly that
and i think it's well in her range to mention that too

(to be clear i'm not saying i scumread her for it or that she is scum because of this, i'm saying this is a silly reason to townread her)

[skitter30]

i see what you're saying here at least

mainly just acknowledging this because i don't think i can really take this conversation any further at this time, it's not going to help my read on you, i've progressed a fair bit since then so if you're town we have to look at other things

fair enuf. i feel like i've moved passed this too and this isn't helpign me read u, was just picking up the convo cuz that's what u wanted to talk about

[skitter30]

(to be clear i'm not saying i scumread her for it or that she is scum because of this, i'm saying this is a silly reason to townread her)

fwiw i do think her overall approach to the event + overall demeanor when the thread opened this phase was very townie

pedit ^
also still think her reaction to unwnd was townie, i can elaborate but i think we've had a back and forth on this point at least 3 separate times

[skitter30]

'you being in the same category as toog' + 'me reading town-you wrong' != toog-town

[skitter30]

yeah i know i just wanted to get a little more from you because your explanation for all the stuff you were suspecting me for was so basic, and i couldn't think of anything else to talk about that didn't involve making you do legwork, so i asked hoping there'd be an elaboration that'd give me a better sense of the thought process

fair enuf

[skitter30]

what does the positioning of gypyx have to do with toog

[skitter30]

im a fantastic scum player im rnning laps around everyone as we speak im openwolfing telling everyone to speed play

awoo

awoooooooooo

[skitter30]

:)

[skitter30]

i am but there's something missing in ur logic there that i'm not getting

[skitter30]

i am but there's something missing in ur logic there that i'm not getting

Your positioning on gypyx looks more like a buddy than toog, because of your positioning on me.

Because if you’re scum, you’re setting me up to flip me first, then toog, so it looks like a possible chaining of miselims. I still think gypyx is extremely scummy but less certain on that now because of Prism.

I don’t understand your confidence on scum!toog either, so there’s that.

these thoughts don't add up to 'toog is probably town if i'm scum'

[skitter30]

Here’s my concern with the toog scum reads. Is it possible toog can be scum here, sure but he’s scumread in almost every game, so I don’t like the confident scumreads on that slot.

toog-harley?

[skitter30]

Me on

Skitter

rn

hi

[skitter30]

why does voting taly thru feel like a mistake lol

i mean i think it's fine but if u think that why are you voting him

[skitter30]

Her latching onto 'No more than 1 scum in Pink' and 'something fucky happened in the Blue PT' without seeing the blue PT herself I dislike a LOT. It seemed like really shallow logic that she wouldn't give up on, and focusing on that instead of her actual reasons to find peta scummy outside of that just seemed like filler posting to me.

i mean true, i didn't see the blue pt, but i saw the pink pt and i was basing my understanding of the game from what i saw there
and i take issue with the fact that you're saying i was focusing more on the pt than why i found peta scummy, and i also described my peta read above more

[skitter30]

she has ascended to purplehood

[skitter30]

Saber I just reread a bit of and Harley's posting now is both a) better than it was last event when it was just random thoughts based on borderline no reading at all and b) still not good enough to not be faked by scum or to outweigh what I think looks slightly sketchy from Saber's posts regarding Dunn - Saber had Dunn as a 2nd from the bottom tier read for a while but didn't bother voting him until there were major wagons on both him & Toog, and early-game had a few statements/comments that redirected people away from Dunn.

this is good tho

[skitter30]

*emotionally breaks down*

ah sorry :(

[skitter30]

Busy irl today, will be around tomorrow night

[skitter30]

Gg ty tweetie, tw for repping into such a tough slot

Gg playing with you all

Peta, even tho you didnt quite get it, you were utterly fantastic. I have, like, a lot of thoughts on your psychoanalysis of me as a player tho lol, which we can discuss if you want

[skitter30]

what in the world is this dead thread

Glorious, we were having a *lot* of fun watching these last couple of events

[skitter30]

Also I've said this a hundred times in dead chat but tweetie this game was awesome, thank you so much for modding (and not known 15 for reviewing, and datacox for graphics!)

[skitter30]

Sabotaging the Shot on a town!Galron doesn’t actually make sense tactically unless the scum control the Throne.

This ^ surprised that nobody *quite* got this tbh