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[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: mozamis

Can you explain this vote to me?

Kind of a vibe of just passively agreeing and not actually contributing

[fua]

I actually agree with the Mozamis wagon, and I think Jackson is suspicious for similar reasons given his most prevalent discussion of the game thus far has been vigilante mechanics without scumhunting whatsoever. They're my top two scumreads, but I'm not going to vote there until Ugly answers my question.

[Aaron]

*alarm goes off*
*ahem*
Alright yes it looks like the time is right. Good morning sir. Alright, I'll get started right away.
Slide 1. *click*
It's 1 am and not much is happening. A man named Dwlee has said a joke while a Monkey named Almost50 replies with similar tone yet different meaning. What that means is unclear at the moment.

There are twins Ythan1 and Ythan2 that were spotted shortly after. The one with the heart tattoo is noticeably more suspicious. Reasons are unclear as of right now.

*click*

Flash forward there is [quite some] murderous intent directed at an entity known as Notmafia. Such intent is interesting as I find the entity rather intriguing and do not understand why some are eager to take easy paths out.

Fua orders for everyone to discuss his life decisions. I am inclined to believe firm statements such as that come from allies.

I receive many mixed signals as many things being said are rather suspicious but I was given intel by the HQ that we are catching exactly three traitors. The HQ is never wrong.

*click*

I have reached 3 pm in the security footage and will be taking a short break.

[Aaron]

*A human
Apologies

[Aaron]

*their for fua.
it won't happen again for either of these.

[Aaron]

Bad idea. Scum have a Doc, if we call out the target and you would hit scum they just protect them. If you would hit town they can still protect them for the WIFOM. And if you're fake claiming Vig but you're still town, they can Watch your target to see if you actually are Vig.

Just shoot the scummiest slot tonight so scum can't anticipate who to target and just default to protecting themselves.

Considering his track record I’m not inclined to believe N_M unless there’s no counterclaim.

Stepping out of character for a brief moment. Scum protecting one of their own just confirms them as scum for the following day. WIFOM plays in but if we use our best judgment, we can assume that unless town JK claims to have JKed the target, it was scum doc. And scum doc don't have reasons to be protecting town.

In the situation that the only kill is the vig kill, we confirm a town through the JK.
In the situation that the only kill is the scum kill, we confirm scum through the vig.

Obviously WIFOM plays in but use your best judgement and it should be fine. If it makes zero sense for someone to be scum, then they aren't and scum are WIFOMing, etc.

Fua, that was a horrible post. No town vig should ever cc here.

[Almost50]

If I'm JK I'll self-target.

[fua]

Bad idea. Scum have a Doc, if we call out the target and you would hit scum they just protect them. If you would hit town they can still protect them for the WIFOM. And if you're fake claiming Vig but you're still town, they can Watch your target to see if you actually are Vig.

Just shoot the scummiest slot tonight so scum can't anticipate who to target and just default to protecting themselves.

Considering his track record I’m not inclined to believe N_M unless there’s no counterclaim.

Stepping out of character for a brief moment. Scum protecting one of their own just confirms them as scum for the following day. WIFOM plays in but if we use our best judgment, we can assume that unless town JK claims to have JKed the target, it was scum doc. And scum doc don't have reasons to be protecting town.

In the situation that the only kill is the vig kill, we confirm a town through the JK.
In the situation that the only kill is the scum kill, we confirm scum through the vig.

Obviously WIFOM plays in but use your best judgement and it should be fine. If it makes zero sense for someone to be scum, then they aren't and scum are WIFOMing, etc.

Fua, that was a horrible post. No town vig should ever cc here.

A cc is 1/3 mafia down before N1 hits, though. If N_M is town he's sentenced himself to death either tonight or within the next couple days anyway, given Mafia knows whether or not he's telling the truth already.

[fua]

Scum doc's reason to be protecting town is already right there, though. It puts people in a WIFOM situation where they're at risk of limming a townie that was protected. Mafia doesn't lose their NK by protecting the vig shot anyway, especially if said vig shot is directed during the day.

[fua]

(Also, vig wouldn't shoot someone who's widely townread to begin with, so your next point is moot regardless.)

[fua]

Also also, this is more minor, but being able to confirm N_M as town or scum D1 is a huge boon to town since he's the most common miselim target in this entire game (and I don't think anyone who knows his playstyle would disagree).

[fua]

Also also also, your scenario of the JK being able to confirm a town is inherently flawed because it requires the JK to out themselves to confirm an almost certainly less valuable townie, thus meaning that they get NKed and we lose a PR for no reason.

[Almost50]

given Mafia knows whether or not he's telling the truth already.

How would they know that 'already"??

[fua]

given Mafia knows whether or not he's telling the truth already.

How would they know that 'already"??

If he’s town then him announcing that he’s the vig means that mafia know whether or not his claim is true. What part of that statement is unclear?

[Almost50]

Also also, this is more minor, but being able to confirm N_M as town or scum D1 is a huge boon to town since he's the most common miselim target in this entire game (and I don't think anyone who knows his playstyle would disagree).

I would, tbh. N_M is not an easy lim as either alignment.

[fua]

In early game? Sure, since he’s unpredictable. In the late game where your options are limited? He tends to be very, very appetizing.

[Almost50]

given Mafia knows whether or not he's telling the truth already.

How would they know that 'already"??

If he’s town then him announcing that he’s the vig means that mafia know whether or not his claim is true. What part of that statement is unclear?

You first proposed that he could be "faking as Town", then you said Mafia already knew. THAT is what confused me. Like, "how would Mafia know if he is a VT faking to be the Vig?" was my question.

[Almost50]

In early game? Sure, since he’s unpredictable. In the late game where your options are limited? He tends to be very, very appetizing.

But if he's Town he'd be almost confirmed by "late game". He has a good nose for Scum and his voting record shows it almost all the time.

[fua]

That’s a good point, but I don’t think any VT would claim to be Vig normally since it means they’re probably going to eat a vig bullet at night.

[fua]

In early game? Sure, since he’s unpredictable. In the late game where your options are limited? He tends to be very, very appetizing.

But if he's Town he'd be almost confirmed by "late game". He has a good nose for Scum and his voting record shows it almost all the time.

Agree to disagree there.

[fua]

Thoughts on my other points? Assuming N_M is just WIFOM to be solved at night, that is.

[Almost50]

That’s a good point, but I don’t think any VT would claim to be Vig normally since it means they’re probably going to eat a vig bullet at night.

I don't think it's smart for the Vig to shoot there either way. If N_M is Scum faking he's going to be protected tonight anyway, and the Watcher is there waiting to out the real Vig too. So, if I was the Vig I'd just let it be and try to do something useful instead. If I do flip overnight it's as good as me having CC'd anyway, but if I don't them I'm not outed and I can try again.

P.S. IF N_M is faking he has to be the Strongman, because Doctors can't self-target in Normals, and Watchers can't self-watch either. Now here's the question: Do you think Scum will risk their 1-shot Strongman being eliminated on D1 just to draw out the Vig?? I don't. I thus declare N_M a TOWNIE either way. I just can't tell if he IS the Vig or not.

[fua]

I feel like this kind of play is exactly the balls to the wall thing N_M would do? But you’re probably better at reading him than I am, so I’ll concede on that front. I’m willing to throw him in as town for now and see how it goes later.

[fua]

Anyway, that’s pretty much the answer to my own post about N_M, so I’ll switch.

VOTE: Aaron

[Aaron]

Bad idea. Scum have a Doc, if we call out the target and you would hit scum they just protect them. If you would hit town they can still protect them for the WIFOM. And if you're fake claiming Vig but you're still town, they can Watch your target to see if you actually are Vig.

Just shoot the scummiest slot tonight so scum can't anticipate who to target and just default to protecting themselves.

Considering his track record I’m not inclined to believe N_M unless there’s no counterclaim.

Stepping out of character for a brief moment. Scum protecting one of their own just confirms them as scum for the following day. WIFOM plays in but if we use our best judgment, we can assume that unless town JK claims to have JKed the target, it was scum doc. And scum doc don't have reasons to be protecting town.

In the situation that the only kill is the vig kill, we confirm a town through the JK.
In the situation that the only kill is the scum kill, we confirm scum through the vig.

Obviously WIFOM plays in but use your best judgement and it should be fine. If it makes zero sense for someone to be scum, then they aren't and scum are WIFOMing, etc.

Fua, that was a horrible post. No town vig should ever cc here.

A cc is 1/3 mafia down before N1 hits, though. If N_M is town he's sentenced himself to death either tonight or within the next couple days anyway, given Mafia knows whether or not he's telling the truth already.

That was a meme claim and scum know that N_M is a good mislim so it doesn't make sense to waste a nightkill there. It is probably worth the risk of leaving him alive from a scum perspective. It's hard to say how scum thinks but his slot doesn't self resolve because of a joke claim. Mafia does not know whether he is telling the truth or not. Town can meme claim too.

Scum doc's reason to be protecting town is already right there, though. It puts people in a WIFOM situation where they're at risk of limming a townie that was protected. Mafia doesn't lose their NK by protecting the vig shot anyway, especially if said vig shot is directed during the day.

WIFOM is not worth it if your buddy dies at night. It is objectively better to force town to use an elimination on a scum buddy than have the scum buddy die at night to a vig kill which can be viewed as a free town shot.

(Also, vig wouldn't shoot someone who's widely townread to begin with, so your next point is moot regardless.)

You're assuming scum always shoots obvtown which is true only in mountainous setups.