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Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:41 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 4, Bingle wrote:I have a breaking strategy for this game:

Mass claim social security numbers.

Mine is 8675309, popcorn to Guyette.
An outrageously US-centric plan.

VOTE: Bingle
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Post Post #78 (isolation #1) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:03 am

Post by imaginality »

Hey I'm back. Apologies for disappearing, I have the next three days off work so should be more active now.
In post 57, Wisdom wrote:but actually

VOTE: imaginality

He's a manipulative guy. I feel if he was jester he'd be posting something to gain attention already


Yup I'm manipulative as scum. But also useful as town. And who knows what as jester, never been jester.

Your mindset of how jesters would play leads me to think you're not jester though.

Seems like Mystik didn't answer this question of yours yet? @Mystik why not?
In post 29, Wisdom wrote:Mystik why the vote change?
In other news:

My bold and tenuous read is that Mega is scum. The wording below suggests to me Meg has a scum mindset leaking out in word choices:
In post 11, MegAzumarill wrote:Also if we don't
like mafia
day 1 or 2 we lose so that is nice
In post 67, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 12, MegAzumarill wrote:Nvm we get a third
shot
because plurality



Although jester could still kingmaker which socks

Conclusion: Elim scum d1 d2
anyone else get possible lamisty vibes from this?
(@Mystik/anyone: what does 'lamisty' mean?)

Alao I think Meg is trying to deliberately make people suspect they're jester with the 'baa' post below.
In post 58, MegAzumarill wrote:VOTE: imaginality

baa
It's subtle but I just get the sense they hope to make it plausible they're jester so they can make people wary of voting them.


VOTE: Mega

Bingle and Wisdom both feel towny enough that if either is jester they're playing a long game and aiming to do something dramatic to turn perceptions of them D2 or D3. Though 8-ball showed even a blatant quickhammer isn't enough to make towns suspicious these days so I think Bingle in particular wouldn't look to start off trying to appear town. And as I mentioned earlier Wisdom also doesn't strike me as jester.

My reads:

Lean town:
Bingle
Wisdom
Cakez

Could be Jester:
Mystik
Gamma
Clemency

Coul be scum:
Clemency
Mystik
Meg
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Post Post #84 (isolation #2) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:20 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 83, Wisdom wrote:
In post 79, Bingle wrote:
Wisdom wrote:Not just on 8ball and he actually posted elsewhere and not here, thats why I said it

Cake also feels not jestery enough with that post, but we'll see
Imagine doesn’t have any board posts between the two in this game. This post is not only a lie, but an easily seen through one.we should definitely eliminate wisdom at the start of D4.
There are more posts than you can see
I can confirm I posted in a dead thread - Wisdom's not lying.
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Post Post #85 (isolation #3) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:44 am

Post by imaginality »

Bingle not considering the PT explanation for Wisdom's post adds to my belief Bingle isn't scum here.
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Post Post #89 (isolation #4) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:32 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 86, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 31, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 19, Wisdom wrote:true

you and clem are gonna be my biggest headache in this game
imaginality, why are you saying i didn’t answer Wisdom’s question when i clearly did?
How does that explain why you voted Gamma?
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Post Post #90 (isolation #5) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:33 am

Post by imaginality »

Since Wisdom's comment was responding to SirCakez rather than Gamma it can't be that.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #6) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 91, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 89, imaginality wrote:
In post 86, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 31, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 19, Wisdom wrote:true

you and clem are gonna be my biggest headache in this game
imaginality, why are you saying i didn’t answer Wisdom’s question when i clearly did?
How does that explain why you voted Gamma?
In post 90, imaginality wrote:Since Wisdom's comment was responding to SirCakez rather than Gamma it can't be that.
i explained why I unvoted Wisdom. both were rvs votes but i switched because i like Wisdom’s response.

VOTE: imaginality

i really don’t like how you’re making such an issue of this, considering that neither Wisdom or Gamma did.
I didn't make an issue of this? I asked why you hadn't answered, you said you had, I pointed out it wasn't an answer to the question Wisdom asked, which you have now answered.

Not shifting the goalposts - 31 isn't an answer. It was half an answer at most. Why was it scummy of me to ask for the full answer?

Lol at you voting me over this
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Post Post #95 (isolation #7) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:53 pm

Post by imaginality »

"considering both were rvs votes"

You
knew that. We didn't. (Or I didn't, at least. Maybe others can read your mind as to whether your vote on Gamma was also RVS or had a reason behind it?)

Now you've explained it as I requested we can all move on to more important questions.
Like why you overreacted to my question. :wink:
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Post Post #96 (isolation #8) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by imaginality »

Giving benefit of the doubt I can see that you might have interpreted "why the vote change" as "why did you stop voting me(Wisdom)" whereas I interpreted it as "why are you now voting Gamma and no longer voting Wisdom". It doesn't seem as natural a reading but it is plausible. So I don't see your 31 as scummy but neither is me asking for the other half of the answer
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Post Post #98 (isolation #9) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:26 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 23, Clemency wrote:i promise i'll play slightly more townie than usual
probably
I haven't played with you before. What's anti-town about your usual playstyle?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #10) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:14 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 101, Bingle wrote:
In post 85, imaginality wrote:Bingle not considering the PT explanation for Wisdom's post adds to my belief Bingle isn't scum here.
How so?
Scum have a PT so it's less likely they wouldn't think of that explanation.
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Post Post #153 (isolation #11) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:00 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 151, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 148, LicketyQuickety wrote:Sure, you want to find Scum but like, the game is 2 Scum, 1 Jester, and 5 Town.

If you get it wrong, then the game is over. Kinda makes me want to be careful.
convince me imaginality’s jester then and i’ll unvote him.
I'm not jester, feel free to keep voting me.
I also didn't misrep you.

Semantic disagreement about whether answering the question means answering at all or answering fully.
In Prime Minister's Questions when someone goes "Why have you cut back investment in the north east?" and Bojo goes "Our government are committed to helping the north east" it both is and isn't an answer to the question. Same with your post this game.

I kinda agree with LQ that you continuing to harp on about this might be jester fishing for me to vote you and others to see you as scummily stretching.
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Post Post #155 (isolation #12) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:37 am

Post by imaginality »

Sorry yes that last sentence wasn't clear. I meant I'm wondering if you're the jester, fishing for votes on you by hoping to irk me into voting you an make others think you're scum and vote you.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #13) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:16 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 158, SirCakez wrote:
In post 78, imaginality wrote:Lean town:
Cakez
I don't understand how you could have this read on me
Post #64 sounded like it had genuine intent behind it. Trying to sort, expressing willingness to prod at people to do so. So I don't think you're scum. And purely subjectively I personally doubt jester calls themselves jester in their first post.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #14) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:42 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 188, Wisdom wrote:Bingle didnt encourage putting people at E-1
He said he will quickhammer whoever is at E-1
Which the jester will do anyway if we put them there
So what's wrong with it?
I can see why Cakez/Mystik might think it's bad but not gonna put words in their mouths.

Also I have a theory about why Bingle has that policy. Not gonna say that either though.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #15) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:03 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 184, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 173, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 155, imaginality wrote:Sorry yes that last sentence wasn't clear. I meant I'm wondering if you're the jester, fishing for votes on you by hoping to irk me into voting you an make others think you're scum and vote you.
you are correct that nothing about my play makes any sense if i’m scum here and that’s all you’re actually right about.

it concerns me that neither you or lq are even considering the fact that i could be town here, so why is that?
imaginality, are you going to respond to this?
It was less than an hour ago you posted that so hold your horses. If you're expecting me to consistently reply to stuff that quickly you're going to be disappointed. It's 10am here, if I didn't have today off work you'd be waiting even longer.

But to answer: I am considering the fact you could be town. If I was 100% convinced you're not town I'd either be voting you or very loudly telling everyone you're jester.

For the record, I actually started out with our disagreement thinking there was a decent chance it could just be TvT but after I pointed out it was a semantic disagreement (in post 96) your subsequent posts about it (#115, #150) seem less genuine.

Could be tunnelled stubborn town but could also be scum or jester trying to look scummy.
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Post Post #206 (isolation #16) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 195, Bingle wrote:It's like literally the only setup where quickhammering doesn't have drawbacks.
I hear it's drawback-free in 8-ball too ;)
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Post Post #214 (isolation #17) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:29 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 191, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 96, imaginality wrote:Giving benefit of the doubt I can see that you might have interpreted "why the vote change" as "why did you stop voting me(Wisdom)" whereas I interpreted it as "why are you now voting Gamma and no longer voting Wisdom". It doesn't seem as natural a reading but it is plausible. So I don't see your 31 as scummy but neither is me asking for the other half of the answer
so what is disingenuous about my reaction? i’m still not convinced you actually did think i dodged Wisdom’s question because fmpov, it seemed pretty obvious i didn’t do that.
Exactly this. You seem smart enough that I don't believe you don't understand my point (that you in fact didn't answer the question from my perspective of why vote Gamma, while I admit your post #31 did answer the question from your perspective of why you stopped voting Wisdom) so I believe you continuing to argue I'm misrepping you is disingenuous.
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Post Post #215 (isolation #18) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:34 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 196, Bingle wrote:
In post 189, imaginality wrote:Also I have a theory about why Bingle has that policy. Not gonna say that either though.
Nah. It's a Jester Nightless policy. I had it the first time I played Jester Nightless. I will have it the next time I play Jester Nightless. It just makes sense.
My theory was you were hoping to lure some dumb Jester into self-voting themselves to E-1 expecting you to hammer so you could then not hammer them.
You expanding to say you won't quickhammer if they self voted means I was wrong about that.
I do agree that if you're only quickhammering non-selfvoters it's fine. It's actually a helpful policy since it evens things out since E-1 is effectively E for everyone then not just the Jester.
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Post Post #220 (isolation #19) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:04 pm

Post by imaginality »

Mystik
you asked me
what I thought was disingenuous. I answered. That is not 'pushing'. I was the one who said it was a dumb disagreement we should move on from!
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Post Post #221 (isolation #20) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:15 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 218, Mystik Spiral wrote:town!imaginality would take into account that i unvoted him but he ignores it.
How should my answer to your question have been different because you unvoted me versus if you still had your vote on me?

To my mind it's either:
"I think you're being disingenuous because XYZ. I see you've unvoted me but that was because you were thinking of voting Bingle and you later still said I'm not town so it seems like your views on me haven't changed."

Or if you hadn't unvoted:
"I think you're being disingenuous because XYZ."

Same answer to your question in either case.
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Post Post #222 (isolation #21) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:18 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 176, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 162, SirCakez wrote:
In post 133, Bingle wrote:
In post 51, Bingle wrote:Regardless, my takeaway here is Wisdom never dies before D4.
In the game Shirley, You Jest (a variant of Jester Nightless with moar Jester) Wisdom won as the third Jester limmed by playing as town as possible. It is not only a good theoretical strategy, it's a proven one I have first hand experience with. Me being uber town is not a reason to say I'm not Jest.

OTOH:

VOTE: LQ

Jester hunting in lieu of scumhunting is a pretty good reason for me to think you're maf.
this post is another reason to vote Bingle - I don't think this vote comes from town Bingle
UNVOTE:

i will seriously consider this.
What conclusion did you come to after your serious consideration of this?
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Post Post #225 (isolation #22) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:24 pm

Post by imaginality »

@Clemency any reads so far?
Which player(s) do you think seem scummiest so far (don't worry about whether they're scum or jester, just who seems scummiest on the face of it?
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Post Post #228 (isolation #23) » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:49 pm

Post by imaginality »

I agree with you on Gamma/LQ's slot being town btw
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Post Post #231 (isolation #24) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 229, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 228, imaginality wrote:I agree with you on Gamma/LQ's slot being town btw
could we actually be getting somewhere then? Am I wrong about you? you posts confuse me so much. okay, what makes you think Meg is scum here as opposed to town or jester?
#111 "weird TR but I'll take it" doesn't sound jestery.
I feel like Meg is scum happy to be read as either jester or town.

I'm wondering if Clemency saying he is going to try to play less survivory than usual points to Clem jester. I don't think so though because that only came up in response to me asking what's not protown about his usual playstyle. Also dropping off the radar since a bout of early posting doesn't seem too jestery but does fit with scum.

I think Meg is at least offering a modicum of content to help me firm up my read of them over time.

VOTE: Clemency funny posts but low value, could be scum, I don't get a sense keeping you around another day will help much.
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Post Post #246 (isolation #25) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:23 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 238, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 237, Wisdom wrote:198 sounds more town than anything tbh

Jester and scum dont blatantly say that, they go subtly about it

It sounds more like bored town
could be
I see some scum players might do that to try to keep some jester wifom alive.
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Post Post #258 (isolation #26) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:54 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 255, Mystik Spiral wrote:
i’m getting the impression that both you and imaginality are hardpushing this scumread on Clemency and completely disregarding Wisdom’s take on it. Why are neither of you taking that into account? if you townread Wisdom that strongly, which is what you’re claiming, then why aren’t you even reconsidering that read?
Hardpushing wtf?
I voted Clemency less than a day ago and then disagreed with Wisdom about whether #198 reads towny or not.

Wisdom himself said Clem looks scummy but he's worried Clem might be jester. My view is Clem is definitely hoping to keep that jester wifom in play.

I responded to Wisdom's comment about 198 so I clearly did take his view into consideration.
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Post Post #260 (isolation #27) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:02 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 253, Mystik Spiral wrote:
I still dislike you repeatedly calling my response to Wisdom’s question “disingenuous”, because it don’t think town continues to double down on something like that after my reaction to that accusation was very obviously not so.

yet another thing that makes me think that Bingle may be onto something with the buddying thing is it was my pivot from Wisdom to Gamma - lq’s predecessor that caused you to push me. i found that weird because if it didn’t concern Wisdom, why should it have bothered you that much?
I never called your answer to Wisdom itself disingenuous. Just your continual harassment of me thereafter for not entirely conceding what was very clearly a semantic disagreement.

In an alternate world:

Me: you didn't answer Wisdom
You: I did here
Me: that doesn't say why you voted Gamma so it's only half an answer
You: oh yep you're right, I didn't say that. It was another RVS vote
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Post Post #261 (isolation #28) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:05 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 214, imaginality wrote:
In post 191, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 96, imaginality wrote:Giving benefit of the doubt I can see that you might have interpreted "why the vote change" as "why did you stop voting me(Wisdom)" whereas I interpreted it as "why are you now voting Gamma and no longer voting Wisdom". It doesn't seem as natural a reading but it is plausible. So I don't see your 31 as scummy but neither is me asking for the other half of the answer
so what is disingenuous about my reaction? i’m still not convinced you actually did think i dodged Wisdom’s question because fmpov, it seemed pretty obvious i didn’t do that.
Exactly this. You seem smart enough that I don't believe you don't understand my point (that you in fact didn't answer the question from my perspective of why vote Gamma, while I admit your post #31 did answer the question from your perspective of why you stopped voting Wisdom) so
I believe you continuing to argue I'm misrepping you is disingenuous
.
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Post Post #262 (isolation #29) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:06 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 259, LicketyQuickety wrote:I'm not getting any Scum vibes (TM) from Mystic. I think we just leave them alone at this point :igmeou:
Fair enough. I'll leave it there in that front. Others can make of it what they will.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #30) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:11 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 242, Clemency wrote:
In post 225, imaginality wrote:@Clemency any reads so far?
Which player(s) do you think seem scummiest so far (don't worry about whether they're scum or jester, just who seems scummiest on the face of it?
hey sorry ive been busy and exhausted and stuff
wisdom is town

i like you

mystik is cool too

lq slot is weird

bingle

i guess i dont like meg either
"I like you" seems scummy to me. An attempt to appease someone who's voting him. And I think not likely to come from jester
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Post Post #272 (isolation #31) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:15 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 270, LicketyQuickety wrote:Sorta feeling like Image is Town and Mystik is just Jester.
Snap
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Post Post #292 (isolation #32) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:32 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 282, Mystik Spiral wrote: oh and why is imaginality town?
In post 288, Mystik Spiral wrote: why are you not answering my imaginality question? i’m seriously considering switching my vote to you now. you’re ignoring my questions.
In post 290, Mystik Spiral wrote:VOTE: LQ
Wow, a whole 29 minutes of ignoring your question, clearly deserving a vote. I mean come on, not even Dominos promise to deliver that quickly.
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Post Post #294 (isolation #33) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:37 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 289, Mystik Spiral wrote:if it isn’t already clear, i want actual quotes and analysis of those quotes to back up your reads. why are you not doing that?
Yes, like the analysis Mystik included for Mystik's changed read on Wisdom, or the quotes and analysis for Mystik's read on Gamma.
In post 31, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 19, Wisdom wrote:true

you and clem are gonna be my biggest headache in this game
Oops sorry I promised I wasn't gonna get sucked back into that whole thing.

But seriously, Mystik is reaching obvjester territory. So can we lim Clemency now?
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Post Post #295 (isolation #34) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:38 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 293, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 292, imaginality wrote:not even Dominos promise to deliver that quickly.
Spoiler:


Sorry tried to find the lamest one I could.
Lol. Fantastic!
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Post Post #360 (isolation #35) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:05 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 320, Wisdom wrote:
In post 294, imaginality wrote:But seriously, Mystik is reaching obvjester territory.
Disagree, looks like town to me now

Also you mocking people's responses is new to me. Is that how you are as town?
I usually go more for deadpan irony than outright mocking. Honestly though I've spent most of this game day explaining my point to Mystik and I'm tired of it.

When Mystik was just going for me I could buy it might just be tunnelled town stubbornly wanting to win an argument, but seeing the way Mystik voted LQ for ignoring Mystik's within 30 mins of Mystik asking the question just now really makes me feel they're just looking for any reason to snap at people and start feuds.
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Post Post #363 (isolation #36) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:18 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 357, Mystik Spiral wrote:VOTE: imaginality

as Bingle says he’s “obvscumming”
which would make total sense to do if he’s actually jester.
i could see LQ as tstbs here and that also would make sense with the jester hunting. the more slots you call out as jester, the greater the odds of achieving that wincon.
Mystik is voting me but thinks I'm jester?
Another point towards Mystik being the jester.
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Post Post #365 (isolation #37) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:26 pm

Post by imaginality »

Oh okay yeah. Confused by the 'he' right after voting me.
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Post Post #367 (isolation #38) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:36 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 198, Clemency wrote:
In post 170, Wisdom wrote:yep clem is most likely not jester here
Id expect him to be having fun instead of being absent
or maybe that's what i want you to think
~(v-v)~
Wisdom, I still don't get why you see this as indicative of Clem being town rather than scum wanting to keep jester wifom alive.
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Post Post #368 (isolation #39) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:46 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 366, LicketyQuickety wrote:It's tempting to vote image here just because I TR Wisdom and Clem might be Jester. Not sensing any Jester vibes from Image myself.
I can confirm I'm not jester.
Also not scum.

Voting me would annoy me because it would mean I wasted time and energy replying to Mystik all those times. But if you think Clem is a significantly greater than average chance of Jester, sure lim me instead. I can see why you'd see me as a safer lim in that scenario.

Bingle can probably do the maths on this. X% chance of losing by limming Jester vs Y% drop in odds of winning in a 1:2:4 setup vs a 1:1:5. My pure gut feel says if you think there's a 25% chance of Clem being Jester and 75% scum, and 0% chance of me being Jester and say 25% of me being scum, then from your perspective you should lim me. Even though it just kicks the decision down the road - you can't avoid limming someone who might be jester if you want to win this game.

However don't just lim me because Clem is a non-zero chance of Jester. I think Clem is scum and I think if we lim Clem we take out a scum.
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Post Post #370 (isolation #40) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:56 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 361, Wisdom wrote:There are plenty of scummers who act like this as town and Im sure you know it
That's not the point though.

The point is what's
more
likely, in the context of this particular game:
1. Mystik happens to be one of those aggressive stubborn townies you alluded to who gets snappy at anyone not answering Mystik's questions fully and swiftly while also not understanding why someone would dare question Mystik for not answering a question fully
2. Mystik is jester and taking any opportunity to stir up arguments in the hope that it leads to Mystik getting limmed. Or Mystik is scum stirring up arguments in the hope of getting town mislimmed.
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Post Post #376 (isolation #41) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:23 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 373, Wisdom wrote:
In post 369, LicketyQuickety wrote:I don't really want to Lim someone who makes posts like this.
this is dumb. Do you want me to quote imaginality scum games where he posts like this?
Wisdom is right, I make good points as scum or town.

I personally wouldn't think I would have let the me vs Mystik argument drag on as long as it did if I were scum mind you. Unless Mystik was my scum buddy.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #42) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:33 pm

Post by imaginality »

Do you want to say who? Bingle has a policy against it but I'd find it helpful to know, at least if I'm not limmed today.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #43) » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:35 pm

Post by imaginality »

That was a response to Wisdom's #374
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Post Post #381 (isolation #44) » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:17 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 374, Wisdom wrote:Mystik's motivation is solving and it's transparent
In post 299, Mystik Spiral wrote:imaginality are you scum or just being intentionally dumb? no offense but i really can’t tell anymore but i think LQ avoiding my questions is seriously scummy, which is why i switched my vote.
Ah yes, clearly this is a transparent genuine attempt to sort me.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #45) » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:24 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 165, SirCakez wrote:I do [have another reason for scum reading Bingle] but it's secret for now
@Cakez if you're around: Probably good to share your other reason with us soon in case you end up today's lim.
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Post Post #385 (isolation #46) » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:27 am

Post by imaginality »

unofficial vc

SirCakez (3): Clemency, LicketyQuickety, Wisdom
Clemency (2): Imaginality, MegAzumarill
Imaginality (1): Mystik Spiral
LicketyQuickety (1): Bingle
Bingle (1): SirCakez

~16 hours left
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Post Post #440 (isolation #47) » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:21 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 439, Wisdom wrote:
In post 425, MegAzumarill wrote:VOTE: Cakez

LQ do you want to just hammer Cakez, it's better than doubling our odds of getting jesters by keeping 2 people at the same count
In post 428, MegAzumarill wrote:Because if we keep clem/cakez at 3 to 3 either can self vote next to dl to win as jest
I feel like this train of thought carries a little TMI, as if Meg knows those two are not scum and thus are likely to be jester

VOTE: meg
I think this is a good call. I get the sense Meg was happy for anyone to be limmed. The only thing pointing against that was when Meg said a late change in wagon is usually to scum's advantage but that could have been an attempt to paint Cakez wagoners as scummy knowing Cakez would flip town.

VOTE: Meg

If Meg is scum, I have a tinfoil theory about who Meg's partner is.
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Post Post #610 (isolation #48) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:13 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 607, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 604, Wisdom wrote:
In post 602, LicketyQuickety wrote:If I don't vote Cakes there, there's no guarantee that a Lim even goes through.
Plurality?
Okay, but the votes were tied? I was under the assumption a Lim wouldn't go through unless I voted Cakes. Otherwise, I would have just let it rand.
So you weren't concerned either was jester?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #49) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:25 pm

Post by imaginality »

The LQ - Mystik stoush today reminds me somewhat of me-Mystik yesterday.

I notice LQ has a townread on me and Wisdom in #540 and wondering how much of that is just because we were voting Meg rather than him.

Also I wonder if phrasing this "how do you know" rather than "why do you think" is a slip:
In post 517, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 515, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 512, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 510, Mystik Spiral wrote:i’ve already answered your question twice now. if you are mafia, you know i’m not your buddy. therefore you know i have to be either town or jester.
That just means I'm guilty until proven innocent. I'm Mafia so I know you are Mafia because I'm Mafia. It's a circular argument.
wut

if you’re mafia, you obviously know i’m not. if you’re goal is to cause me to have a headache, it’s working.
How do you know I am Mafia?
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Post Post #625 (isolation #50) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:37 pm

Post by imaginality »

I was talking about today's votes not D1 so LQ's response misses the point anyhow.

@People scumreading LQ - who do you think he's paired with? I'm having a hard time seeing likely pairings. Bingle and Mystik don't seem likely, Wisdom seems too town, LQ seems to want Clem limmed.

I think there are more possible pairings when it comes to Meg.
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Post Post #636 (isolation #51) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:21 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 534, Bingle wrote:
In post 531, Wisdom wrote:LQ do me a favor and E-1 Meg
Im curious if Bingle breaks his policy for her
I wouldn't
especially if we were buddies, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
I think LQ may have misread this post as Bingle saying he wouldn't
vote for
Meg instead of what Bingle is actually saying, that he wouldn't
break his quickhammer policy
for Meg?
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Post Post #640 (isolation #52) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:36 pm

Post by imaginality »

To be clear, I'm not defending LQ overall here. I just don't want today to go down the rabbithole of an argument based on an underlying confusion in the same way that Mystik vs me was yesterday.
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Post Post #642 (isolation #53) » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:47 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 639, Bingle wrote:
In post 635, LicketyQuickety wrote:Keep telling yourself that. I already quoted where you said you wouldn't vote Meg if you were partnered with them. Yet somehow you still maintain your stupid strategy of hammering anything that doesn't self hammer. Are you just eager to Lim people or what?
imagine: look at these two sentences sequentially and realize you're telling me that LQ is referencing that post in both of them.
In post 543, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 539, Bingle wrote:I'm saying that theoretical scum me would hammer Meg regardless of whether Meg was my partner or not.
You said the opposite just before that though.
In post 547, Bingle wrote:
In post 543, LicketyQuickety wrote:You said the opposite just before that though.
I said I would follow my policy [of quickhammering anyone at E1] especially if Meg and I were S/S. But keep pretending to read my posts, it makes the scumclaims so much harder to see. /s
In post 548, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 534, Bingle wrote:I wouldn't especially if we were buddies, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
Wut?
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Post Post #707 (isolation #54) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:13 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 703, MegAzumarill wrote:All players that aren't mafia shouldn't be eliminated.

Further nuance is frankly unnecessary
Clemency and Bingle are low in reads, you are probably my biggest TR and lq is >rand town. Wisdom could honestly go either way.

Dislike bingle interacting with LQ
Why did you leave me off your reads? Hoping to drag me down with you as your buddy?
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Post Post #756 (isolation #55) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:19 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 742, Bingle wrote:
In post 685, LicketyQuickety wrote:Probably a dumb idea, but what if it's just Wisdom/Mystik here?
Could be Wis, but I'm like 99% on MS town.

Not sure on Meg, she definitely fits as LQ partner and imagine partner.

MS picks the elim tomorrow and everyone sheeps no questions asked. It's the only way you deal with town not being a true majority.
Also town getting onto someone quickly would be important since if all three town are voting the same person then scum plus jester can't stop that scum getting limmed under the plurality rules. Whereas if scum and jester get on someone first then they can.

Whoever said LQ wasn't being survivory, I disagree, it seemed clear LQ didn't want to be limmed and his two townreads earlier just happened to be the two people not voting him.

If Bingle's town I'll trust his townread on Mystik and sheep Mystik's vote
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Post Post #774 (isolation #56) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:37 am

Post by imaginality »

One of those two votes on me is scum trying to push through a quick mislim on me in the confusion.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety
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Post Post #789 (isolation #57) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:34 am

Post by imaginality »

LQ hoping to get read as jester.
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Post Post #828 (isolation #58) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:30 pm

Post by imaginality »

I can see possibilities of Bingle-Meg and Bingle-Clem.

I'd be annoyed though if Bingle is jester and wins with me voting him. I think he's smart enough to play close to his normal game whatever his alignment. And he's been annoyed with the people more focused on jester hunting than scum hunting.
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Post Post #830 (isolation #59) » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:36 pm

Post by imaginality »

Eh.
His Bingle self vote and comment after felt performative so.

VOTE: Bingle
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Post Post #872 (isolation #60) » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:45 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 233, MegAzumarill wrote:Ok but actually clemency hasn't done anything all game and claimed jester.

Looks like scum pretending to be jester.
It may just be jester but it's not town
VOTE: Clemency
In post 387, MegAzumarill wrote:This kind of close to Elim push always ends in scum favour
Just lim clem
In post 389, MegAzumarill wrote:If cakes flips red I'm happy to die to lower jester win odds
In post 421, MegAzumarill wrote:Cakez has plurality I'm pretty sure
In post 425, MegAzumarill wrote:VOTE: Cakez

LQ do you want to just hammer Cakez, it's better than doubling our odds of getting jesters by keeping 2 people at the same count
While 425 makes sense as a pro-town tactic in isolation, it doesn't seem like you were actually genuinely worried about either of them being jester since you went from pushing hard to get first one limmed, then pushing the other.
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Post Post #874 (isolation #61) » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:54 pm

Post by imaginality »

VOTE: Meg

I don't think a town Meg switches from wanting Clem limmed to wanting Cakez limmed. Near deadline Meg could have pushed for us to lim Clem to break the tie but instead pushed for Cakez.

It's interesting that Bingle voted Cakez in between. In a theoretical Bingle-Meg scumteam I can imagine a scumchat like "so it seems like either Clem or Cakez could be the lim today" "okay let's get Cakez limmed, I think Cakez is less likely jester" "okay".
In post 395, Bingle wrote:VOTE: Cakez

Didn’t realize exactly how close deadline was.
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Post Post #893 (isolation #62) » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:13 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 886, Bingle wrote:
In post 386, Kerset wrote:SirCakez (3): Clemency, LicketyQuickety, Wisdom,
Clemency (2): imaginality, MegAzumarill,
Like, look at this for a moment. If Clem/cakez is T/T who gets limmed is trivial. If cakez is jester, cakez wins. If Clem is jester, Clem wins. If Clem scum Meg needs two votes to make it so that cakez can’t self vote for the win as jester. If cakez scum, Meg switching to cakez prevents theoretical Clem jester from self voting for the win at deadline.

Is your argument that you think Meg actually could have gotten Clem higher than cakez? That she wasn’t trying to do so at this point? Cause that’s not at all what I’m getting from your argument.
LQ's vote was back on Clem at the time Meg switched to pushing for the Cakez lim. So it wasn't a forlorn hope to get Clem limmed at that point (there were still 4 hours til deadline, and Cakez's vote would have gone on Clem presumably, even if no one else had reconsidered).
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Post Post #911 (isolation #63) » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:46 pm

Post by imaginality »

Says 5am for me too and I'm on NZ time
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Post Post #923 (isolation #64) » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:54 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 913, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 911, imaginality wrote:Says 5am for me too and I'm on NZ time
Check

Look at the date and time of Wisdom’s post. He isn’t lying.
To be clear, I was agreeing that Wisdom wasn't lying.

Also, I feel like, as Wisdom said, Bingle should have known that. I lean a bit more towards Bingle being jester trying to subtly look scummy but Bingle-Meg remains a plausible possibility. I still think Meg is the better lim today though.
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Post Post #938 (isolation #65) » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:43 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 933, MegAzumarill wrote:
In post 928, Wisdom wrote:VOTE: meg

Dont see her doing much to get the attention on her again
Prolly safe
But why does that make me scum?
This is a scum-mindset response
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Post Post #940 (isolation #66) » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:29 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 939, MegAzumarill wrote:
In post 938, imaginality wrote:
In post 933, MegAzumarill wrote:
In post 928, Wisdom wrote:VOTE: meg

Dont see her doing much to get the attention on her again
Prolly safe
But why does that make me scum?
.

This is a scum-mindset response
Not jester =/= scum

They said I was not jester
Tidying that quote tree.

I think it's a scum mindset for the way your question is phrased.

Not 'why does that make me scum rather than town' or 'that's only saying I'm not jester, not that I'm scum' or the like.

It wouldn't be enough to make me switch my vote to you in isolation but it reaffirms rather than changes my read on you.
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Post Post #944 (isolation #67) » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:46 pm

Post by imaginality »

Why is a jester game such a slog?
In future iterations of this game, everyone should have a PR to up the silliness.
Player 1: must begin each post by exclaiming two vegetables/fruits ("Carrots! Pumpkins! Bingle is scum!")
Player 2: must post a 4-line poem in each post ("Autumn has gone/and now Winter comes/But Bingle and Meg/Are still the scums")
Player 3: must describe an acrobatic act in each post ("Imaginality cartwheels backwards, pirouettes, and points an accusing finger at Meg")
Player 4: must include a joke in each post ("why did the scum cross halfway across the road? To achieve equality with the other side")

Okay maybe not
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Post Post #978 (isolation #68) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:30 am

Post by imaginality »

To me Bingle's interactions with Meg seem most likely S-S rather than S-T, if Bingle is scum. Because the switch from being against Meg lim to pushing for it fits scum seeing Meg getting heat and deciding to bus. I don't believe it's as likely to be from having a jester read on Meg and then reconsidering because I don't think Meg was being particularly jestery earlier.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #69) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:30 pm

Post by imaginality »

If Meg flips town whoever else is town plus me should vote for the same person ASAP tomorrow. If we can get three votes on that person before scum plus jester get three on anyone else, then our one will go through at deadline based on plurality rules.

Hopefully Clem is scum or jester to delay them aligning their votes.
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Post Post #1004 (isolation #70) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:21 pm

Post by imaginality »

VOTE: Bingle
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #71) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:33 pm

Post by imaginality »

Ugh now I'm feeling paranoid about both Wisdom being right about Bingle jester, and Wisdom-Bingle scum.

I think Bingle jester probably doesn't hammer in that fake E-1 though earlier? Goes against his policy and looks scummy and gets limmed for real for it?
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #72) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:35 pm

Post by imaginality »

That is to say, if jester he might be more likely to not hammer himself in that situation earlier, so as to look scummy so that he gets the extra vote that would allow him to self hammer for real
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Post Post #1012 (isolation #73) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:45 pm

Post by imaginality »

Actually I could see Wisdom and Bingle concocting the fake elim situation as scum, both to make Bingle look town from his response, and to see if the jester might reveal themselves by their reaction in the fake twilight.

P-edit, I think the replace assuming it's for RL factors of some sort makes it NAI for Clem rather than a point against being jester.
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #74) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by imaginality »

If Bingle doesn't get hammered by scum double voting soon it proves either Bingle is scum or at least one of me or LQ is. I think.
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #75) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:50 pm

Post by imaginality »

I guess it could also prove scum are paranoid about Bingle being jesfsr
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Post Post #1021 (isolation #76) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:24 pm

Post by imaginality »

Re. Bingle's idea that we should pick the towniest player and sheep:

The towniest players are SirCakez and Meg, both conftown.
They both scumread Bingle.
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Post Post #1022 (isolation #77) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:33 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 1016, Wisdom wrote:Can you at least unvote so we have a single post from bingle
I want to see what he pushes now that meg wasnt red
Nope. Like I said I think we have to guess and hope we get three town votes on scum before scum can get three on town (if jester sides with them).

If you (whoever is reading this, and is town, and isn't voting Bingle already) want to hold off a bit though, while keeping a cautious eye so you can throw your vote on if scum try to lure the jester to vote someone with them, then if Bingle doesn't get doublevoted by scum, it proves there's at least one scum among {Bingle, LQ, me}. But I don't think it makes sense for me (or LQ) to take our votes off.
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #78) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:43 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 1026, Wisdom wrote:Bingle is at e-1 ms
If hes jester when hes here he'll win
Bingle is e-2
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Post Post #1064 (isolation #79) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:35 pm

Post by imaginality »

I'm town so if we don't lose soon one of you two is scum.
The votes on me here make no sense.
Wisdom being concerned just about Bingle being jester and not about Bingle being scum points to Wisdom being scum if Bingle isn't.
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Post Post #1065 (isolation #80) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:36 pm

Post by imaginality »

Mystik please quote where I'm "making a point of not tr-ing" you
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #81) » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:40 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 1060, Mystik Spiral wrote: yeah, i should be locktown after Meg flip but LQ is inexplicably trying to push me as scum and imaginality is making it a point of not tr me, eventhough I was clearly trying to lim Bingle yesterday.

if they push me, you will 100% know they’re scumclaiming.
Why have you gone from wanting to lim Bingle yesterday to not wanting to lim Bingle until D4 today?
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #82) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:32 am

Post by imaginality »

I don't think Bingle is jester. I think he'd be having more fun.
But I do see your point that you and Mystik going for me and me and LQ going for Bingle makes it unlikely it's anyone except Bingle or Clem. While any one of us four could be doing some sneaky play hoping the lim won't go through, it is a risky ploy.
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #83) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:43 am

Post by imaginality »

I think it's you-Bingle and you're using the Bingle-jester threat as a reason to keep us off Bingle.

I think Clem is jester. Who knows why Clem replaced out. If anything though, I think Clem's less likely to have replaced out as scum rather than jester.
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Post Post #1073 (isolation #84) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:45 am

Post by imaginality »

If Mystik and/or LQ are scum after me eventually coming round to reading their stubbornness on D1 as town, I'm going to be annoyed with myself for not sticking on them.
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Post Post #1075 (isolation #85) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:15 am

Post by imaginality »

I I said scum not town.
I know nothing of him, I'm just going by the game state and the chance of this being a scum victory are higher than it being a jester victory so I think there's more temptation for someone to try to stick around as scum.
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Post Post #1118 (isolation #86) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:39 am

Post by imaginality »

I think Bingle is scum pretending to be jester in order to scare people off limming him. That "not gonna wifom" post has trickery written all over it.
And it's the same low energy tone as yesterday's when he claimed he was town. If he was jester yesterday and knew he was E-2 he doesn't make that 'hammer' post when he could have waited, got another vote on him and hammered for real. If he was jester and didn't know, then he faked being town post-hammer while thinking he'd won so why wouldn't he do the same today? And again, jester Bingle probably wins more often by not making that 'hammer' move today than by making it.

I really think he's scum hiding behind his jester facade.
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Post Post #1119 (isolation #87) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:42 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 1083, Mystik Spiral wrote:
In post 1065, imaginality wrote:Mystik please quote where I'm "making a point of not tr-ing" you
i’m not sure but LQ made me paranoid and you said to sheep Cakez and Meg but not me. had you all listened to me about Meg, we might not be in this predicament.
Cakez and Meg are conf town by flip.
You might very well be town also, but with them I know for sure their reads are from a town pov.

I do see you as towniest out of the living players aside from me though.
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Post Post #1126 (isolation #88) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:14 am

Post by imaginality »

If it's not Bingle it's Mystik-Wisdom. Or Wisdom-Anastasia.

-LQ is happy to lim Bingle
-I am happy to lim Bingle
-if Bingle isn't scum, scum could have hammered him when he was on E-1 so scum must be worried he's jester

So to me Mystik that points only towards {you, Wisdom, Anastasia} .
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Post Post #1180 (isolation #89) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:44 pm

Post by imaginality »

Isn't that already hammer?
Mystik, Wisdom, LQ, Anastasia?
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Post Post #1209 (isolation #90) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:48 pm

Post by imaginality »

I'm town. So I know either scum is exactly Bingle and LQ or there's scum on the LQ wagon.
If LQ is jester then it'd be game over so LQ's not jester.
Doesn't make sense for jester to be on LQ wagon so I guess that proves Bingle is in fact very likely jester.

Wisdom and Mystik's chatter is pretty grossly gleeful if they're scum. If they're town then it really is LQ and Anastasia.
Except I don't think Anastasia buses here.

So I think LQ is town and two of Anastasia, Wisdom and Mystik are scum.

VOTE: Wisdom

If Bingle is jester then I think you're scum. Probably with Anastasia. Mystik has the point about not going for Meg yesterday in Mystik's favour.

@Mystik / @Anastasia what do you think of the above logic from my pov? I think it's solid except for the outside possibility someone on the wagon is jester banking on the wagon not going through.
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Post Post #1210 (isolation #91) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:54 pm

Post by imaginality »

Whichever of you is town, needs to join me and LQ on Wisdom. That'll give us plurality. Otherwise we'll lose by limming LQ at deadline.
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Post Post #1213 (isolation #92) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:59 pm

Post by imaginality »

In post 1211, Wisdom wrote:If you think lq/anastasia and wisdom/anastasia are possibilities shouldn't you be voting anastasia?
I said the game state tells me LQ is town. Scum don't bus here, I feel. You can't guarantee I'd follow the above reasoning rather than just hammering LQ.
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Post Post #1214 (isolation #93) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:02 pm

Post by imaginality »

The only scum options I'm considering now are among {Wisdom, Anastasia, Mystik}.

If you don't want me voting you then explain why the others make more sense as a scum pair together than either of them does as a pair with you.
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Post Post #1216 (isolation #94) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:34 pm

Post by imaginality »

Newsflash you saying something doesn't make it so.
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Post Post #1219 (isolation #95) » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:17 pm

Post by imaginality »

Whoever's town on the LQ wagon, have a look at 8-ball where Wisdom was town. Do you really think Wisdom's posting this game and especially today is similar to how he posted as town in that game?
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Post Post #1221 (isolation #96) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:22 am

Post by imaginality »

Your mech solve is wrong. But you already know that.

Going to bed, cluster headaches aren't fun.
This game is also a headache.

Will post some useful analysis tomorrow.
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Post Post #1234 (isolation #97) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:36 am

Post by imaginality »

Ugh Bingle. I could've talked Mystik round over the next few days.
Oh well. At least I figured out the scum team even if it was too late.
Well played scum!
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Post Post #1241 (isolation #98) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:41 am

Post by imaginality »

In post 1235, LicketyQuickety wrote:I basically pushed Clem all game long but for some reason, no one wanted to Lim them. Still, Wisdom had an excellent Scum game here, so props to them.
I wanted Clem limmed at various times too. If we'd gone for Clem over Cakez at D1 deadline this game would have gone very differently
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Post Post #1262 (isolation #99) » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:49 pm

Post by imaginality »

While I'm annoyed Bingle didn't give us longer, I don't think it was unfair exactly. At least, there's the counterargument that 'if Bingle were to vanish from the game right now, the three votes on LQ would be hammer with five players, so Bingle hammering is effectively the same as just vanishing from the game'.

Dunno why I let myself get talked out of going for Clem. I nearly did start today voting Clem rather than Bingle but didn't think Clem deserved to win if Jester.
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