Micro 1033: XD [Game Over]

[Bingle]

I have a breaking strategy for this game:

Mass claim social security numbers.

Mine is 8675309, popcorn to Guyette.

[Bingle]

I have a breaking strategy for this game:

Mass claim social security numbers.

Mine is 8675309, popcorn to Guyette.

An outrageously US-centric plan.

VOTE: Bingle

Nah uh, I popcorned to an Irish guy. Clearly there’s nothing specifically related to the US involved.

Yeah, so we’re in a halfway between two different setups, which is interesting. I think I’m leaning

VOTE: cakez

18 sounds like not jester.

[Bingle]

never heard of them but i bet the drummer of nirvana would be a way better singer than dave grohl

Everyone knows the only drummer worth listening to is Animal.

[Bingle]

Also if we don't like mafia day 1 or 2 we lose so that is nice

Not quite. Mafia still has the incentive to bus because they lose just as hard if they hit jester.

[Bingle]

Iirc, wisdoms jester plan is to play the setup as straight as possible, so that’s probably jester or town and Meg seems town.

[Bingle]

Maybe I switched plans

What?

Like, if you're Jester then your plan is definitely to play it straight, because you're playing it straight. If you're not Jester, then switching plans would be irrelevant because you wouldn't be playing to a Jester plan.

Regardless, my takeaway here is Wisdom never dies before D4.

[Bingle]

iirc jester doesn’t endgame in this but I think it’s good to get a refresh
I’ll probably read the setup myself but if anyone wants to spare me that but of effort I’d appreciate it!

Jester does endgame in this. It's a weird halfway between the 8p Jester nightless setup with Maf Lovers and Jester dying at EoD2 and the modern version of 9p.

This is probably massively Jester sided, although I'm not really in the mood to work out EVs.

If we lim 2 town in a row we're in 3v2v1 XLO and need a mafia elim to continue the game. It is not an outright scumwin because Jester and Mafia are still directly opposed in what they want and town still has plurality control. Therefore, mafia would be willing but possibly reluctant to bus there. Mafia bussing is actually particularly likely, because they know that a mafia elimination doesn't outright end the game and if we get a single mafia elim we can afford to lim obvtown for safety.

[Bingle]

Oh, and E-1 is functionally a hammer, because once someone is confirmed to be not jester it's optimal just to eliminate them.

[Bingle]

The Practical Wincons:

Mafia: Parity with Town aligned Players.
Town: Eliminate all mafia.
Jester: get limmed Before N3.

All three are exclusive.

[Bingle]

but actually

VOTE: imaginality

He's a manipulative guy. I feel if he was jester he'd be posting something to gain attention already

Is this based on 8ball? I didn’t get the impression imaginality would have any issues wading in as any alignment so I think saying not jester is potentially premature.

Also I think he lives in or near the land of upside down opera houses, so that might account for posting differences.

How do you feel about cake?

[Bingle]

I actually agree with Meg. I think it's slightly +town to be worried about how the balance plays out here and this is a balance departure from bogstandard Knightless.

[Bingle]

Wisdom feels slightly town, that’s my first read

:raised eyebrows:

tell me more

[Bingle]

iirc jester doesn’t endgame in this but I think it’s good to get a refresh

@all: Is this a slip or a fakeslip?

[Bingle]

Not knowing how jester works implies not being jester. Faking it implies the exact opposite. Frankly I’m more interested in how other people react than how you do though.

[Bingle]

I’m bored. Wis, are you going to own it or should I?

[Bingle]

Not just on 8ball and he actually posted elsewhere and not here, thats why I said it

Cake also feels not jestery enough with that post, but we'll see

Imagine doesn’t have any board posts between the two in this game. This post is not only a lie, but an easily seen through one.we should definitely eliminate wisdom at the start of D4.

[Bingle]

LAMIST= Look at me I’m so town[y]. Lamisty implies that they’re scum looking for towncred.

[Bingle]

No takeaway from 79?

[Bingle]

Bingle not considering the PT explanation for Wisdom's post adds to my belief Bingle isn't scum here.

How so?

[Bingle]

So far my would lim list is imagine and Cakez.

I also don't think MS is jester, but am uninterested in pursuing that elimination.

[Bingle]

What’s a pt? Also why isn’t anyone posting in my quick topic?

[Bingle]

But no, I was explicitly aware of scum PTs. I didn’t think it likely you and wisdom would be scum together in an ongoing game that wisdom would then bring up to achieve a very small advantage here.

I didn’t consider dead threads, but I was frankly more interested in other people reacting to the fallout that’s the fallout itself and am low key annoyed wisdom cut that off.

[Bingle]

*Callout than the callout

[Bingle]

I would say Bingle probably shouldn't be liked

[Bingle]

Wisdom's 27 is not really fakable, so I'm willing to call this lack of TMI. I don't think this is the sort of thing Scum will fake. Could it just be not getting something? Yes, but generally Scum WANT to be informed on stuff so I think the lack of TMI read holds here. There are other reasons to TR Wisdom for but this stuck out to me for some reason. Again, might be a bad take, because I basically suck at this game.

Wat?

[Bingle]

Regardless, my takeaway here is Wisdom never dies before D4.

In the game Shirley, You Jest (a variant of Jester Nightless with moar Jester) Wisdom won as the third Jester limmed by playing as town as possible. It is not only a good theoretical strategy, it's a proven one I have first hand experience with. Me being uber town is not a reason to say I'm not Jest.

OTOH:

VOTE: LQ

Jester hunting in lieu of scumhunting is a pretty good reason for me to think you're maf.

[Bingle]

K, well, why do you think I just want to Limm scummy stuff then?

You... Don't?

Like, you're voting Clem for ??????? after a big post about why literally everyone but Clem is or isn't Jester.

[Bingle]

Because Bingle brings the heat as Town. That's what I am saying.

Actually not at all what my sig means, but okay.

Chennai’s comment was from a dance game where he powerwolfed the game before I had a chance to get into it and ducky was talking specifically about me talking mechanics and the quote is taken from one of my scum games.

Fake God wasn’t even talking about mafia.

[Bingle]

i tend to play more survivory than town because i'm unconfident in my abilities

@LQ, do you expect a lot out of early game from someone who posts this?

[Bingle]

this post is another reason to vote Bingle - I don't think this vote comes from town Bingle

Another implies you had one in the first place.

[Bingle]

Good thing you said that, I was about to quickhammer.

It’s worth noting that I will be policy quickhammering in this setup.

[Bingle]

why? in this kind of setup, policy quickhammering is what could make us lose.

If a player is L-1 and not voting themselves, we've already lost if they're the jester. If they're town, they're likely to selfhammer to prevent losing to the jester. The only people who have no motivation to selfhammer are, in fact, mafia. So either I cut down time to what will already happen (a selfhammer) or I get to hammer mafia. It's like literally the only setup where quickhammering doesn't have drawbacks.

Also, Meg is correct that we obviously shouldn't qh someone who is already on their own wagon, but I don't see it as likely that someone will already be on their own wagon.

[Bingle]

Also I have a theory about why Bingle has that policy. Not gonna say that either though.

Nah. It's a Jester Nightless policy. I had it the first time I played Jester Nightless. I will have it the next time I play Jester Nightless. It just makes sense.

[Bingle]

Although, iirc I was scum the first time I played Jester nightless. I lolcatted into a sweep with shos and Wis was the mod, I think.

[Bingle]

I mean… not selfhammering when you’re obviously going to die is just wasting time, but really the takeaway is that e-2 is actually e-1.

[Bingle]

I'm not going to self hammer and I'm not Scum.

I believe exactly half of this.

[Bingle]

I feel like Bingle isn't looking at my thought process and isn't fact-checking me to see if I use weird reasoning for my reads. Of course, you are free to prove me wrong.

I am doing the former, but no, I have not done any meta wrt this game.

[Bingle]

I hear it's drawback-free in 8-ball too

I mean... despite the satisfaction of being called town for qh-ing wisdom we did end up losing. Still. Definitely worth it.

[Bingle]

Wisdom feels slightly town, that’s my first read

His positions feel pretty nuanced rn

What does it tell you if it’s real?

the entire ISO doesn’t feel scummy to me.

Really? I think it comes across as being very meh. The wisdom read came when people were starting to share reads and was pretty fencesitty. Thinking the reads were nuanced but not commenting on them or looking into if they were real (it took literally two clicks for me to see that imaginality wasn't posting in public areas of the site) does not fill me with a wholesome town impression. Asking about what I want to know about his own potential slip also doesn't seem town at any level and is very surface level posting from any alignment. Note: none of this is a reason to scumread Gamma, but I wouldn't townread it at all.

casing lq, i’m currently leaning town on him and i disagree with Bingle that jester hunting is necessarily scum indicative because town also loses if they mistakenly lim jester.

It’s only scummy if they are not also looking for scum

and since i do think it’s very possible that imaginality could be jester here, i question the confidence in the votes there.

before gamma replaced out, my read on them was town or jester. i really didn’t see much in his ISO that was agenday and i don’t really get scum vibes from lq, so idk if the rationale behind votes on him. are based off of Gamma unlikely replacing out as jester and it’s just a safe vote?

Exactly my point: Look at 107.

The difficult part about this game is we can't just form a PoE of Town and be good because Jester can act like mock-Town. Not a good strategy for Jester, but I can see Jester act just enough like Town to make it look like they are trying to LAMIST but just lay it on thick.

Based on how the game is going so far, I think

we just Lim Scummy people. I have like 3 jester reads

at this point: Cakes, Image, Mystik.

I had Mystic and Wisdom as Jester reads but then ISO'd to make sure and I reevaluated.

We should lim scum. Also, let me tell you about all of my Jester reads.

TRs on Wisdom, Meg, and Bingle, but Bingle doesn't live to D4. Just a hunch really but I felt like they were trying to ObvTown too hard when the rest of the thread was just screwing around. This could just be a bad take though, IDK.

Wisdom's 27 is not really fakable, so I'm willing to call this lack of TMI. I don't think this is the sort of thing Scum will fake. Could it just be not getting something? Yes, but generally Scum WANT to be informed on stuff so I think the lack of TMI read holds here. There are other reasons to TR Wisdom for but this stuck out to me for some reason. Again, might be a bad take, because I basically suck at this game.

I like 68 from Meg. Blatantly saying they think their post is Townie seems cocky. IDK if Meg has the stones for that sort of thing as Mafia.

Bingle has had a number of analysis posts that I liked, but then again, it might just

actually

be LAMIST since he's going so hard at this game. But IDK. Just don't want to think about Limming them at this point.

These are my townreads, but also let me cast doubt on all of them so that it'll be easy to backtrack. Also, (and this came from the beginning of the post but fits better here):

The difficult part about this game is we can't just form a PoE of Town and be good because Jester can act like mock-Town. Not a good strategy for Jester, but I can see Jester act just enough like Town to make it look like they are trying to LAMIST but just lay it on thick.

TOWNREADS AREN'T WORTH MUCH. HERE ARE MY TOWNREADS.

On the second ISO of Mystik, I can see them as Jester. They seem to have some takes just off-center enough to make it look like they are bad Town - enough that it looks like they are Scum. If you're Town, then just take it as me not wanting to Lim you.

That just leaves Clemency. So I guess I will go there since they have no content yet.

VOTE: Clemency

Oh, look. More Jester reads.

And, at the end of this, what does he do? Votes LHF. Not because Clemency is scum, but because he's not one of the townreads LQ is actively shading and thinks can't be trusted but because LQ has decided everyone else is either town or Jester. He's not scumhunting at all.

[Bingle]

I agree that LQ isn't likely Jester, not because of the GE replace, (although if I squint I can see the argument he'd be more excited to play if he'd rolled the namesake role I think GE wouldn't let something like that effect her and this is probably just a regular NAI replace) but because he comes across as trying to convince me not to scumread him genuinely.

I also think that imagine is not Jester, given that I'm getting buddying feels there. I'd probably be willing to vote him if LQ wasn't obvscumming so hard.

[Bingle]

I'll be gone the rest of the day, btw. I'm doing TGiving a day early with the family and I need to start cooking. Have fun and don't start any fires without me.

[Bingle]

Explain the bold please.

Your entire iso is “we should not lim person x because they’re probably a jester” and “this is why you shouldn’t lim me”.

There’s two people you’ve come close to expressing a scumread on: me, a townread who needs to be eliminated before the jester dies because ? and Clem who has done nothing.

Compare: you clearly don’t want to die, you’re spending most of your effort doing exactly what scum wants to do (shopping for any non jester elim in a way that doesn’t bite you) and you just put up a self meta case of “I can’t be obvscum, when I’m scum I’m obvious!”

[Bingle]

Sure, why is Clem Town?

Not something I’ve said even once. What I’ve said is that your vote on Clem is a result of jester hunting, not scum hunting and that not scum hunting is scummy.

OTOH, when you flip scum you’ll have spewed Clem as NotMaf pretty hard.

[Bingle]

18 sounds like not jester.

Pot meets...

ancient Japanese tea ceremony.

Regardless, my takeaway here is Wisdom never dies before D4.

Kinda sorta TMI read on Wisdom here?

18 sounds like not jester.

Pot meets...

ancient Japanese tea ceremony.

so I think saying not jester is potentially premature.

Kettle.

Holy misrep, Batman!

Jester hunting isn’t scummy. Doing nothing but jester hunting is scummy. And I want to know what sort of mental contortionist bullshit you have to pull to claim that a possible jester read on Wisdom is TMI.

[Bingle]

Well, what is your read on Clem outside of me if I might ask?

Don’t have one, he’s done fuckall.

[Bingle]

But seriously, Mystik is reaching obvjester territory.

Disagree, looks like town to me now

This is a solid read if it is who I think it is. I won’t be naming my guess as I have a personal policy against outing alts (even as a guess), but I’m pretty sure this is town spiral.

Sanity check my LQ case?

[Bingle]

Holy misrep, Batman!

Jester hunting isn’t scummy.

Doing nothing but jester hunting is scummy.

And I want to know what sort of mental contortionist bullshit you have to pull to claim that a possible jester read on Wisdom is TMI.

1. How is it a misrep?

[Bingle]

Holy misrep, Batman!

Jester hunting isn’t scummy.

Doing nothing but jester hunting is scummy.

And I want to know what sort of mental contortionist bullshit you have to pull to claim that a possible jester read on Wisdom is TMI.

1. How is it a misrep?

That's... not all I am doing? Like do I have reads outside of that? Check the box for yes or no.

Quote literally any scumread from before I specifically called you out on it.

[Bingle]

they don't die before D4.

D4 is the day that we no longer have to worry about jesters. Explicitly, wisdoms play here mirrors his play the last time he was a jester exactly.

I do think he’s more town than scum, but that’s not at all what that post suggested and I wasn’t burying that lead at all. Claiming you didn’t get that is basically admitting you weren’t reading my posts critically.

Your iso contains literally nothing about clem actually being a scumread before I called you out for not scumhunting. The angle of “Well akshually I scumread him for a lack of content” came AFTER the callout. Beforehand, he was just the only player you didn’t call town or jester in the entire player list. You, in fact, said literally nothing about him.

You’re also trying to paint me as just assuming you’re not jester when I pretty clearly made the case to why you were playing a survivalistic game.

But yeah, your inability to quote a scumread precallout kinda speaks for itself, now don’t it?

[Bingle]

LQ IRL.

[Bingle]

I could see you being jester however, some of your posts feel like you want to enrage mystik and bingle on purpose

Hm. I could see that, actually.

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

VOTE: Cakez

Didn’t realize exactly how close deadline was.

[Bingle]

LQ IRL.

Funny, but also, absolutely no. I'm the quiet guy who no one knows anything about.

I think it went over your head. That is a picture of a flail.

[Bingle]

News to me, his 'case' on me was garbage and I trusted Wis on the rest.

VOTE: LQ

I think MS has made some good points about LQ not being Jest. I'm a little paranoid yet that he might be trying to bait me into voting him, but this is by far the most likely to hit scum and I'm willing to risk the slight chance of a jester loss here based on what I'm pretty sure is LQ panicking over my push on him. If we don't hit scum here the game gets really hard.

D3 after flipping another townie we have to pick a universal town/jest read and all agree to sheep that person in order to have a shot at winning.Scum can't out because if Jest doesn't play ball with them they're just fucked, so they'll probably go along with the plan. If we pick Jester they're fucked. If we pick scum we lose. If we pick town we have a 40% chance to not lose.

[Bingle]

Well I'm curious for his stance on Meg

There isn't much to read. The lack of concern about how others see them makes me think not mafia though.

[Bingle]

Speaking of which, what do you think about my Meg point? I think she slipped tmi there with the 3-3 wagon thing

?

TMI that she knows how the setup works?

Legitimately, what she said is just the way the setup works. If we have two tied wagons at deadline, either of them being jester is a game loss because they self vote at the last minute. That's not rocket surgery.

[Bingle]

Bingle has surprisingly few takes on players in this game.

Not publishing a reads list =/= not having takes, but don't let the truth stop your narrative.

[Bingle]

No it points to her knowing both are non-scum

What?

It points to not knowing if either is jester, if anything, and even then only loosely. It doesn't slip notscum knowledge so much as not S/S knowledge, which is aptly explained either by Clem being town or Meg being town. Or both.

[Bingle]

Like its another thing discussing the setup in mafia discussion and going "oh, 3-3 tie close to deadline is bad because jester will vote and get the lim"
and another to actually be a player in the game with reads and encourage LQ to hammer Cakez because of said theory

?

It's not a theory thing.

If Clem and Cakez are tied at 3 votes at deadline and EITHER of them is jester, town loses the game. It makes total sense to argue for a hammer on the player you think is less likely to be jester. It makes just as much sense to argue for a vote to break the deadlock if you're unsure which is jester. Risking the game on one player will always be better than risking the game on two players.

[Bingle]

LQ do me a favor and E-1 Meg
Im curious if Bingle breaks his policy for her

I wouldn't especially if we were buddies, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

[Bingle]

Hey, you said Scum has a reason to bus in this game. Remember that?

Yes? Because it's a nightless game and getting one scum to be obvtown is basically a scum win.

I'm saying that theoretical scum me would hammer Meg regardless of whether Meg was my partner or not.

And you being willing to put town in a position where they don't have a clear majority to appease Wisdom is basically a scumclaim, so...

[Bingle]

I'm TRing both Image and Wisdom at this point.

And it's cool that scum you only needs one vote to win if you hammer town today. I'm sure that has nothing to do with your decision.

[Bingle]

You said the opposite just before that though.

I said I would follow my policy [of quickhammering anyone at E1] especially if Meg and I were S/S. But keep pretending to read my posts, it makes the scumclaims so much harder to see. /s

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

for now but still salty about last night but whatever.

He's scum, MS.

It's fucking obvious, don't let his halfassed defense sway you.

[Bingle]

Good thing you said that, I was about to quickhammer.

It’s worth noting that I will be policy quickhammering in this setup.

why? in this kind of setup, policy quickhammering is what could make us lose.

If a player is L-1 and not voting themselves, we've already lost if they're the jester. If they're town, they're likely to selfhammer to prevent losing to the jester. The only people who have no motivation to selfhammer are, in fact, mafia. So either I cut down time to what will already happen (a selfhammer) or I get to hammer mafia. It's like literally the only setup where quickhammering doesn't have drawbacks.

Also, Meg is correct that we obviously shouldn't qh someone who is already on their own wagon, but I don't see it as likely that someone will already be on their own wagon.

Also I have a theory about why Bingle has that policy. Not gonna say that either though.

Nah. It's a Jester Nightless policy. I had it the first time I played Jester Nightless. I will have it the next time I play Jester Nightless. It just makes sense.

It's very believable that LQ has a nuanced read on me but doesn't even know this happened, despite literally responding to it.

[Bingle]

Bingle, why are you so certain LQ is scum?

You mean besides the clearly survivalist behavior, the complete fabrication of what's going on ITT, the fact that he didn't do any scumhunting until directly called out for not scumhunting and then revised his PoE nullread into a lockscum read so strong he won't even reconsider it when one of his locktown reads disagrees vehemently, the blatant 'woe is me I'm always scumread' ATE and the willingness to lim someone he's townreading on the basis that he's then going to get a lim on another player who his case on is "Well he's not doing anything."?

I hacked his account and read his role PM.

[Bingle]

It did but I don't want to make my cheating too obvious.

[Bingle]

I wouldn't be surprised by imagine or Meg. There's a slight tinfoil it's Clem and this is a turbobus for cred, but I don't know why he wouldn't have taken the free meg hammer there.

[Bingle]

basis that he's then going to get a lim on another player who his case on is "Well he's not doing anything."?

To give a complete picture: This trade was conveniently to take us into XLO.

[Bingle]

Well I'm curious for his stance on Meg

There isn't much to read. The lack of concern about how others see them makes me think not mafia though.

This is my take on meg, alone.

[Bingle]

Half of this is blatantly untrue.

Is it the half where I read your role PM? Cause... Yeah. The rest is all 100% what this thread is fucking about.

[Bingle]

Like... How am I the only one who sees LQ loudly and repeatedly scumclaiming and still obviously trying to fight his own elimination this hard?

He's not town. He's not Jest. QED, he's scum.

[Bingle]

I hope you get Limmed after my Lim.

“Oh, woe is me. The person who I think is scum is voting me. I’m obviously going down in flames.”

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.

[Bingle]

Lq’s read on Clem is quite ridged - as if he's stuck in 2011 or something.

[Bingle]

How have I been a survivalist?

@Bingle, I'll be listening to this until you unvote me, thanks.

why? in this kind of setup, policy quickhammering is what could make us lose.

If a player is L-1 and not voting themselves, we've already lost if they're the jester. If they're town, they're likely to selfhammer to prevent losing to the jester. The only people who have no motivation to selfhammer are, in fact, mafia. So either I cut down time to what will already happen (a selfhammer) or I get to hammer mafia. It's like literally the only setup where quickhammering doesn't have drawbacks.

Also, Meg is correct that we obviously shouldn't qh someone who is already on their own wagon, but I don't see it as likely that someone will already be on their own wagon.

I'm not going to self hammer and I'm not Scum.

I'm just going to say that reading me is piss easy if you have any meta on me at all. I absolutely suck as Scum and eat Limms left and right when I am bad because I suck at lying.

Am I weird as Town? Yes, because I have a mental illness. But I'm even weirder as Scum. Fact check me on that.

Sorta feeling like Image is Town and Mystik is just Jester.

Id keep going but it’s his entire iso.

[Bingle]

I hope you get Limmed after my Lim.

“Oh, woe is me. The person who I think is scum is voting me. I’m obviously going down in flames.”

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.

It will expose you as the Scum you are, obviously.

Ever get a chance to look at how I formulate reads as Scum? This is the 4th? 5th time I am asking?

Dude I’m not going to meta dive you. I’m never going to meta dive you. You described your scumplay as EXACTLY HOW YOU ARE PLAYING THIS GAME: SCUMMY AS FUCK.

[Bingle]

It's very believable that LQ has a nuanced read on me but doesn't even know this happened, despite literally responding to it.

You said blatantly that you would not hammer Meg if they were your partner while also saying Scum would have reason to bus in this setup. But go ahead and act like you never said that.

Quote this. You’re literally making shit up.

[Bingle]

@mod: Can we get a prod on Clem?

sure

[Bingle]

But i dont think town bingle still scumreads lq here

Show me a single thing LQ has done that is town.

Is it the dismissal of MS as a jester for exactly as long as it was scumreading him?

Is it the OMGUS retraction of a townread on me as soon as I started pushing him?

Is it the assertions that "It's okay, I'm scummy as town and even more scummy as scum. Just go do a bunch of busywork reading second hand games and it'll be obvious!"

Is it the dismissal of everyone who was even posting as town or Jester in order to push the single person least likely to be able to put up a defense?

Is it the making shit up about what I've said or done?

Is it the blatant gaslighting about things that didn't actually happen in the thread?

Cause I've kinda run out of things he's done this game and haven't seen a single fucking towntell in the list.

[Bingle]

I think LQ may have misread this post as Bingle saying he wouldn't vote for Meg instead of what Bingle is actually saying, that he wouldn't break his quickhammer policy for Meg?

You mean he's faking not being aware of the policy of qh-ing anyone who hits E-1? Cause I already called out how utterly bullshit that explanation is and he ignored it.

[Bingle]

Keep telling yourself that. I already quoted where you said you wouldn't vote Meg if you were partnered with them. Yet somehow you still maintain your stupid strategy of hammering anything that doesn't self hammer. Are you just eager to Lim people or what?

imagine: look at these two sentences sequentially and realize you're telling me that LQ is referencing that post in both of them.

[Bingle]

My reaction to Mystik is incredibly Townie if you consider why I was Jester reading them. But you don't want to look at the context of any of my reads for some reason.

No, it isn't.

Is it the OMGUS retraction of a townread on me as soon as I started pushing him?

Yeah, cuz your read on me conveniently dismisses all the Townie things I have done in this game.

It's notoriously easy to dismiss things that don't exist.

[qupte]

Is it the assertions that "It's okay, I'm scummy as town and even more scummy as scum. Just go do a bunch of busywork reading second hand games and it'll be obvious!"

Blatant misrep. In any case, if you're not willing to fact-check me on this, you don't really have a valid read here and I can dismiss this as biased colored glasses. I didn't even say I was Scummy as Town, I said I was weird as Town but weirder as Scum, which admittedly, I just looked through a game I replaced into a game as Scum and went from my pred being the main suspect to turning the slot completely around and winning in F3, but that's neither here nor there. I just said that because I rarely have a Scum game I'm not Limmed in. But the thing you are not seeing is that no one else at this point is Mafia reading me. So you mean to tell me you're the only Town in this game who can read me properly when you won't even fact check me on my meta? Hilarious.[/quote]

Your self meta is garbage. Just like all self meta is garbage. If you can say "I would never be doing this as scum" and be correct then you're actively cheating. If you're not correct than it's useless noise. But your argument here is "You're wrong to scumread me because I'm always scumread as scum, therefore you're scum."

Is it the dismissal of everyone who was even posting as town or Jester in order to push the single person least likely to be able to put up a defense?

If you are referring to Clem, my reasons for Mafia reading them never went away. Who's a better push for me FYPOV? I would be down for voting Meg, but it's too early in the day. Clem is totally free to post anytime they wish. No one is preventing them from posting. And until I see a reason not to Mafia read them, I will continue to do so.

Are you fucking kidding me with this?

Is it the making shit up about what I've said or done?

Again, your own words fight against you here.

You said you wouldn't vote Meg if you were partnered with them here

. So somehow the strat of hammering anything that doesn't self hammer makes you Town? When you said yourself you would stick to the strategy in this game AND the NEXT game? Like you probably have done previously? Yeah, that's NOT a reason to TR you bucko.

Literally the opposite of what I said. Literally the opposite of what I clarified. Literally the opposite of what imagine clarified. Literally the opposite of the meaning you yourself are demonstrating knowledge of. Like, I can't see a world where this isn't a play designed to convince people you're a Jester, but that ship has sailed. No way a jester is flailing this hard under any amount of pressure.

Is it the blatant gaslighting about things that didn't actually happen in the thread?

I actually misread a lot of things because I have ADHD so badly and am better at just stating things in real-time and going back and rereading. I haven't reread much yet this game except once I reread the thread and gave my takes on things that had already been said. But I prefer interacting in real time since I just don't do well when catching up usually.

"It's cool that I'm consistently ignoring everything you say, I'm probably just misreading every single post you make."

Cause I've kinda run out of things he's done this game and haven't seen a single fucking towntell in the list.

That's because you are living with blinders on considering other people have been able to find me as Town just fine.

[/quote]

It's almost like the entire post you're responding to is asking what said people (read: Wisdom, and only Wisdom) are townreading.

[Bingle]

Keep telling yourself that. I already quoted where you said you wouldn't vote Meg if you were partnered with them. Yet somehow you still maintain your stupid strategy of hammering anything that doesn't self hammer. Are you just eager to Lim people or what?

imagine: look at these two sentences sequentially and realize you're telling me that LQ is referencing that post in both of them.

I'm saying that theoretical scum me would hammer Meg regardless of whether Meg was my partner or not.

You said the opposite just before that though.

You said the opposite just before that though.

I said I would follow my policy [of quickhammering anyone at E1] especially if Meg and I were S/S. But keep pretending to read my posts, it makes the scumclaims so much harder to see. /s

I wouldn't especially if we were buddies, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Wut?

You're kinda arguing my point for me.

I considered that maybe he misread, and clarified, and he blatantly ignored the clarification.

Don't hint that you might be considering he's scum though, he'll decide you're scum.

[Bingle]

I wouldn't clearly mean what it says. Unless you actually said you WOULD lime them, but then I don't know why that conversation even happened in the first place.

Keep telling yourself that. I already quoted where you said you wouldn't vote Meg if you were partnered with them. Yet somehow you still maintain your stupid strategy of hammering anything that doesn't self hammer. Are you just eager to Lim people or what?

imagine: look at these two sentences sequentially and realize you're telling me that LQ is referencing that post in both of them.

I'm saying that theoretical scum me would hammer Meg regardless of whether Meg was my partner or not.

You said the opposite just before that though.

You said the opposite just before that though.

I said I would follow my policy [of quickhammering anyone at E1] especially if Meg and I were S/S. But keep pretending to read my posts, it makes the scumclaims so much harder to see. /s

I wouldn't especially if we were buddies, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Wut?

Are you fucking kidding with this?

[Bingle]

I would hammer Meg if you put them to E1.

I would hammer Meg if you put them to E1 regardless of alignment.

If I am town, it's just correct play, because MegJest has won and MegTown is going to die anyway because they're proven not Jest and won't end the game in my loss.
If I am scum and Meg is town, hey, free town lim.
If I am scum and Meg is scum, not hammering is a literal scumclaim.
If I am Jester, not hammering is a Jester claim.

In all cases, I would hammer, and Wisdom knows that.

And you already demonstrated that you understood the policy when you argued against it earlier.

Claiming that anything I said is that I wouldn't hammer Meg while simultaneously scumreading me for being willing to hammer meg ("He's baiting me into voting Meg!") is blatant horseshit. Taking this out now, after imagine tried to argue you out of the corner you put yourself in isn't really convincing.

[Bingle]

Is being wrong inherently Scummy to you? If so why?

Being wrong isn't scummy. Actively twisting a narrative to push something is.

[Bingle]

You've said I've been "survivalist" and I don't think I have. I think if I was survivalist I wouldn't be posting this much, hmmm? Like, isn't Clem and Meg being survivalist if anyone is?

I don't know why you're even fighting this part of my read, it's blatantly obvious that it's true and MS was the one who convinced me of it.

You're fighting pretty fucking hard against being eliminated. Y/N

[Bingle]

And in isolation being survivalistic is a very weak scumtell because town also does it. Here, it's a pretty strong antiJester tell. Like sure, Jester probably fights their lim a little, but to this extent?

[Bingle]

And in isolation being survivalistic is a very weak scumtell because town also does it. Here, it's a pretty strong antiJester tell. Like sure, Jester probably fights their lim a little, but to this extent?

So do you want to Lim me because I'm NOT JESTER or because I'm Mafia? Limming me just because I am not Jester is easy. Most of the players in this game so far fit that.

And I'm gonna put this in visual format because I know you won't actually look at my wiki if I ask you to.



See, I get Limmed D1 a lot - more than anything else besides Endgame. And You want me in endgame if you are Town here because I'm good at endgame. So I have every reason to fight my Lim as hard as I am doing.

And that's without calculating for my other account as well. I probably have way more D1 Lims if you look at that data.

Both? Like, if you genuinely didn't understand that the goal in this game for town is to eliminate Mafia while avoiding the elimination of Jesters that would have been apparent long before now.

WRT the statistics, putting aside the fact that you're trying to sell something as meaningless as past game statistics as a reason to townread you, you have a significantly higher scumwin percentage than townwin percentage based on your own wiki page which is exactly counter to your own narrative of "I'm usually easy to beat as scum". You don't break apart your deaths based on faction. You have absolutely no account for correlation or causation, and there's nothing addressing that mafia is a cooperative game.

Your argument is that you're town because you win as town about as much as you'd expect a random monkey at a typewriter in a room full of monkeys at typewriters and you're worse as scum than as town because you win more often. Your argument is worse than useless. Congratulations on wasting my time.

[Bingle]

@Wisdom

But i dont think town bingle still scumreads lq here

Show me a single thing LQ has done that is town.

Is it the dismissal of MS as a jester for exactly as long as it was scumreading him?

Is it the OMGUS retraction of a townread on me as soon as I started pushing him?

Is it the assertions that "It's okay, I'm scummy as town and even more scummy as scum. Just go do a bunch of busywork reading second hand games and it'll be obvious!"

Is it the dismissal of everyone who was even posting as town or Jester in order to push the single person least likely to be able to put up a defense?

Is it the making shit up about what I've said or done?

Is it the blatant gaslighting about things that didn't actually happen in the thread?

Cause I've kinda run out of things he's done this game and haven't seen a single fucking towntell in the list.

[Bingle]

Like i feel his frustration and its genuine

I'll reset and try again, but when I read it it sounded like panic and flailing.

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

yeah, that much is pretty damned obvious.

I thought you were townreading me. What changed?

[Bingle]

Sorry, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the game today. I've been working on pregame stuff for triplicate. I'll get around to looking at Meg's shift to me while doing my reset on LQ, probably.

[Bingle]

also you’re only reconsidering your LQ read right after Meg votes you.

Nah, I'm only reconsidering my LQ vote after Wis gave me something to look for in LQ's behavior for towniness that wasn't "OMG I'M TOWN."

I haven't had the time to reevaluate there or look deeply at whether Meg voting me makes sense, although I suspect the answer is that I'll support eliminating Meg once I read what's going on.

[Bingle]

VOTE: bingle

[Bingle]

^Policy, btw. I'm still town.

[Bingle]

Probably a dumb idea, but what if it's just Wisdom/Mystik here?

Could be Wis, but I'm like 99% on MS town.

Not sure on Meg, she definitely fits as LQ partner and imagine partner.

MS picks the elim tomorrow and everyone sheeps no questions asked. It's the only way you deal with town not being a true majority.

[Bingle]

I mean... I would troll that I was town as Jester here, but no.

You've got this MS, I believe in you.

[Bingle]

well if you’re town, this isn’t good either because now scum only needs to kill one more town, so why did you self-hammer?

Policy. E-1 is hammer.

[Bingle]

So now what do we do

What do you make of this

Surface level it's town, but it's a very surface level question.

[Bingle]

no pressure right?

I mean... It's a Jester game. There's no real pressure either way.

But seriously, you're the most solid townread in the game by far. LQ's not really wrong that there's a chance of Wisdom powerwolfing here. Just sheeping you is the way town has a chance of winning tomorrow.

[Bingle]

So now what do we do

What do you make of this

Surface level it's town, but it's a very surface level question.

Actually... That might be a Jester slip?

Does Meg scum actually believe me when I say it's a policy selfhammer?

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

Back to updating secret alt logins.

[Bingle]

So now what do we do

Why did you post this, Meg?

[Bingle]

For Bingle I was thinking town for his reaction but his actions after the reveal hint towards him knowing it was a trick which nullifies that, and i additionally dislike that he left instead of discussing what he got out of playing along

Didn't realize LQ had unvoted, actually.

And I was outing my reactions real time because I figured I couldn't after I flipped, so...

Not sure why you expect me to not have the same other priorities in the wake of a gambit as I had prior to it.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Clem

I didn't, I missed you switching back to Clem here.

[Bingle]

see i really don’t understand the logic in this. saying, everyone should recognize i’m town is fine but that doesn’t mean my solve is necessarily correct, especially in this type of setup, because obviously jester.

this is why this looks like a pocket to me.

From a mech standpoint, the way town has a chance of winning in a 3v2v1 is to have everyone sheep one person, and hope that person is town. I believe you are town. I'm not as sure on any other read. Those posts (there were a couple where I do this) were an attempt to tell you to trust your reads, not Wisdom's reads, because I'm lowkey concerned that Wisdom is deepwolf atp and if he is and you just listen to him after I die town has no chance of winning.

And we both know that I respect your scumreads, I just think you have a propensity to be pocketed and defend scum entirely too hard.

[Bingle]

so when did Bingle suddenly decide Wisdom could be “powerwolfing” and not jester?

it reads more to me as i should be paranoid on Wisdom and suddenly he puts stock into LQ’s paranoia on Wisdom after pretty much calling him lockscum for most of the game?

Probably a dumb idea, but what if it's just Wisdom/Mystik here?

I'm not familiar with either of these players very well, but IDK why Wisdom ISN'T considering me as Scum at this point???

Here and also the point where Wisdom was baiting LQ into putting me at E-1.

[Bingle]

EBWOP: putting meg at E-1

LQ do me a favor and E-1 Meg
Im curious if Bingle breaks his policy for her

This is the place.

Like, Wisdom understands my policy better than anyone else in the thread and knows there's not an alignment combination where I wouldn't have hammered meg there, so the "I'm curious if Bingle breaks his policy" bit just seems off.

[Bingle]

@Wisdom

But i dont think town bingle still scumreads lq here

Show me a single thing LQ has done that is town.

Is it the dismissal of MS as a jester for exactly as long as it was scumreading him?

Is it the OMGUS retraction of a townread on me as soon as I started pushing him?

Is it the assertions that "It's okay, I'm scummy as town and even more scummy as scum. Just go do a bunch of busywork reading second hand games and it'll be obvious!"

Is it the dismissal of everyone who was even posting as town or Jester in order to push the single person least likely to be able to put up a defense?

Is it the making shit up about what I've said or done?

Is it the blatant gaslighting about things that didn't actually happen in the thread?

Cause I've kinda run out of things he's done this game and haven't seen a single fucking towntell in the list.

Its his tone
Just read any exchange with mystik (and you)
This level of fire is hard to fake

Like i feel his frustration and its genuine
Hes trying to do things and gets lost in misunderstandings
There's no sign of subtle manipulation or agenda in his trajectories
He thinks it, he says it

This, btw, is where I started reconsidering LQ.

I'm still not sure where I fall there (he's done a lot of scummy shit) but I'm at least open to the possibility I might be derp tunneled at this point.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle

Why is my being willing to reevaluate you making you think I'm scum?

[Bingle]

Eh i could see you coming up with some excuse to not hammer meg if you were buddies, thats why i wanted to confirm you would

What excuse?

Furthermore, why?

If Meg is at E1 and we're S/S, I can just hammer and ride the wave to D4. It's not like hypothetical meg/me was any more likely to win as partners than salvaging whatever cred I could and powerwolfing.

[Bingle]

Why do you think I realized I wasn't at E-1 when I was pretty clearly absent from the thread most of yesterday?

[Bingle]

My exit was: I’m no longer racing the mod to get my thoughts in the thread. Honestly the whole situation should spew me town pretty hard and that it hasn’t is ridiculous.

[Bingle]

Not sure why you expect me to not have the same other priorities in the wake of a gambit as I had prior to it.

[Bingle]

who do you think is pocketing me and who is the scum i’m defending?

I don't particularly have a strong indication that is happening in this game, although if it is I think Wis is likely the one who has you pocketed.

I never had a strong Jester read on Wisdom, (nor do I currently) but I do think that this is the way he would be playing the game if he was a Jester. Repeatedly pushing miseliminations but otherwise playing to his strong thread presence until someone gets paranoid enough to eliminate him. I think it's probably the only way he

could

play Jester, tbh, because him doing anything else would be an obvious red flag.

I still don't want Wisdom eliminated today and if I had to guess his alignment or lose the game I'd bet town, but I don't think it's impossible that he's scum here and if I die then I want you to keep that in mind while making the decision on who town murderlates.

[Bingle]

LQ do me a favor and E-1 Meg
Im curious if Bingle breaks his policy for her

yeah it WAS on Meg.

@Bingle

That was a typo, I corrected it in the next post.

[Bingle]

Probably a dumb idea, but what if it's just Wisdom/Mystik here?

Could be Wis, but I'm like 99% on MS town.

Not sure on Meg, she definitely fits as LQ partner and imagine partner.

MS picks the elim tomorrow and everyone sheeps no questions asked. It's the only way you deal with town not being a true majority.

This is still pretty much where I'm at. I haven't read back to get an idea of who I want to eliminate yet, but I'd probably sheep you on anyone you asked me to. My gut still tells me that LQ is scum, but I need to read a pretty large part of the thread again to reset the read there. Wis probably isn't scum if Meg is.

GTH, if I had to pick a non LQ slot to eliminate right now, it'd be imagine, but I honestly let myself get a little too deep in my tunnel and haven't been reading anyone else as closely as I should've. Probably the only reason I'm so sure on you is that you showed your town fury in your back and forths with LQ pretty vividly.

[Bingle]

I wouldn't say hard pushing since I didn't really have that much confidence in scum! Clem read. I just felt it was better than cakez marginally.

Read as you want I guess

If cakez is jester we lose either way
If clemency is jester I saved the game for everyone.

Can you seriously look at the clemency slot and think that that can't be jester ?

no, he definitely could be,

You literally agree with me why are we still discussing this

because you keep contradicting yourself. if you thought he could be jester, then why make this statement?
also what made Cakez a good lim anyways, since he was pretty obviously town. LQ probably looks the best on Cakez wagon followed by Wisdom. like i’m not going to high five anyone for pushing town.

MS, Meg is right. Let me try for a moment:

At deadline you are at E2 and I’m at E2. Neither of us is Jester, but Wisdom doesn’t know that for sure. Wisdom is on neither wagon because he wants Meg eliminated.

Wisdom should choose one of us to eliminate because the alternative is that either of us being Jester loses the game for everyone else. He could be hard townreading both of us, but he still makes that choice because there’s ALWAYS the chance his read is wrong.

[Bingle]

He can’t both be the best elim and also jester from her PoV.

He doesn’t have to be likely jester to make it a good idea. It has to be possible for him to be jester for it to be a good idea.

If there are two tied wagons at deadline and no one switches to push the other through, THE ELIMINATION THAT IS WORSE FOR TOWN IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE ONE WE GET.

If your argument was that Meg was soft pushing Clem while townreading cakez but wasn’t on wagon it’s be scummy. But the breaking of the tie? That’s NAI, possibly anti jester

[Bingle]

SirCakez (3): Clemency, LicketyQuickety, Wisdom,
Clemency (2): imaginality, MegAzumarill,

Like, look at this for a moment. If Clem/cakez is T/T who gets limmed is trivial. If cakez is jester, cakez wins. If Clem is jester, Clem wins. If Clem scum Meg needs two votes to make it so that cakez can’t self vote for the win as jester. If cakez scum, Meg switching to cakez prevents theoretical Clem jester from self voting for the win at deadline.

Is your argument that you think Meg actually could have gotten Clem higher than cakez? That she wasn’t trying to do so at this point? Cause that’s not at all what I’m getting from your argument.

[Bingle]

my argument is she is both saying Clemency lim was best and then saying she asked LQ to hammer Cakez because Clemency might be jester, so which is it?

They're not mutually exclusive.

Clem can be the best elimination from Meg's PoV and STILL possibly a jester. From a hypothetical townMeg PoV, there wasn't support for the preferred elimination. Her choices were A) leave the wagons tied or B) compromise on an elim.

In a standard game of mafia, compromising to get an elim is a thing. In THIS game of mafia, the only thing not switching to Cakez got meg was a world in which Cakez still died if Clem was town or mafia, but Clem won if Jester. Even if there was only a 0.000000000005% chance of clem being Jester there, it's still correct play to switch to prevent that 0.000000000005% chance of losing the game immediately. The only way Meg is absolutely safe leaving those wagons tied is if Meg is the Jester. I don't think it's strong evidence that Meg isn't the Jester, because thinking "Tied wagons at deadline, jester could win there" is a completely natural thought for Jester to have and Jester mostly wants to look like not Jester.

It doesn't make Meg town (because, you know, Mafia also doesn't want to lose to a jester), but it certainly isn't a reason to scumread her.

And this is not at all what I thought LQ was doing. I was using a hypothetical that was obviously not what happened in this game to illustrate that the behavior is NAI by drawing a comparison. I think LQ was actually trying to convince people that a situation that didn't happen had happened. They are, in fact, very different things.

[Bingle]

So the argument is that Meg is scum because she didn't assume people who weren't online with 4 hours to deadline were going to be online before deadline?

I mean... She was wrong. I would have been. But that argument is that she was scummy for not having information she couldn't possibly have.

[Bingle]

Actually, holy shit... Why are you people pushing Meg there?

What Wis did was way fucking scummier.

[Bingle]

Vote Count 1.05

With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate.

SirCakez (5): Clemency, Wisdom, Bingle, MegAzumarill, LicketyQuickety,
Clemency (1): imaginality,
LicketyQuickety (1): Mystik Spiral,
Bingle (1): SirCakez,
imaginality (0):
MegAzumarill (0):
Mystik Spiral (0):
Wisdom (0):

Not Voting

(0):

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-11-26 05:00:00).

Mod notes:

-

Please note, Deadline was not at 11:00 PM. Deadline was at 5 AM. Wis actively lied about when the day was ending to make it seem like swinging the vote was less likely.

[Bingle]

I just don't see how it could be accidental. Like... He clearly went looking for the deadline, and 11:44 is a very different number than 4:44. After it passed deadline it became a lot harder to see, but it is a weird scum tactic. Pretty much guarantees his elimination if someone catches him.

I think I want Wisdom to be eliminated D4. I don't trust that this isn't a big brain Jester play.

[Bingle]

bingle has modded a lot of games, Im sure if I remember this thing about the countdown from the few games I modded ages ago, he knows it too

I actually didn’t. In my defense, knowing how my deadline tags show up when expired to other people has never really come up. I guess I should have, though, because I do occasionally leave the tags in the default time one when putting them up with the alternate method.

[Bingle]

I mean… the only reasonable conclusions are that I genuinely didn’t realize how expired tags present or I was trying to frame wisdom when I knew he’d have an easy rebuttal in the hopes no one would wait until he could access the thread, or I’m pulling a shut push out of my ass as jester.

Given the options and me not being a complete idiot most of the time, I think the first option is pretty obviously the case. I will also point out that in modding, already expired deadlines aren’t super important.

[Bingle]

For reference, the way I usually do countdown tags is

Code: Select all

[countdown]48 hours[/countdown]

hit preview and then update the countdown clock to match what I actually want the deadline to say so that I have a chance of being awake at deadline. I once got praised on actually doing countdown times to the second by jjh, when it was literally just me forgetting to edit the timer.

[Bingle]

You fighting this is bad.

?

[Bingle]

Why is a jester game such a slog?

Because it's halfway between two different setups.

The 8p setup with mafia lovers and Jester dying after D2 and the 9p setup with goons and Jester dying after D3.

Kerset didn't realize this wasn't a standard version of the game until it'd already filled.

In both other versions, this deadlock doesn't happen because once there is an established PoE pool that everyone accepts as S/J, the town can eat the towniest among them to kill the jester and then win if their PoE is good.

In this case, of course, it isn't and we'd lose, but we'd lose significantly faster.

As it is, not just picking a name out of the list is just going to drag the game on, so I guess I'll break the stagnation and hope.

VOTE: Meg

E-1. Someone hammer.

[Bingle]

If Meg is jester we can assume we've lost. there's no point in dragging this out.

[Bingle]

Big jester vibes from wisdom

Meg is confirmed not jester.

[Bingle]

^

If Meg were jester the game would be over.

[Bingle]

let’s make this clear, scum is either survivalistic or bussed. who is being weirdly survivalistic? Bingle. he is completely ignoring my read on him. what does that tell you?

Bingle is busy, and has been for 24 hours, and I’m pretty sure you know that to be true. It’s also pretty easy to fact check for anyone who knows I’m Jingle (read: everyone in the thread).

If I had the time to engage and derail your scumread on me I’d be doing so. But I don’t and there’s a good chance I won’t until the deadline, so I took a gamble on forcing the issue with Meg.

[Bingle]

so it’s possible she could stiol be jester but scum needs parity to win, so our best option is still to kill the scummiest slot which is Bingle.

Meg literally cannot be jester. Mechanically.

You know that whatever else my personal code won’t let me lie about that so you can take that to the bank.

[Bingle]

I'm gonna vote Meg here if it's alright with the thread.

If it helps I can unvote so you're not hammering, but yes, please god, yes.

[Bingle]

you didn’t comment on it period. i never said you didn’t spend a lot of time doing it, i said you didn’t address it at all.

how much time does it take to say “your read on me is wrong but won’t have sufficient time before deadline to address it”?

Not much, but it also doesn't really add anything. Like... I'm pretty sure everyone knows I'm not keeping up with this game well based on all of the many things I haven't engaged with/followed through on. I also still haven't had time to reiso LQ, and haven't mentioned that.

Making statements about things I haven't done yet is just useless noise when the reason I haven't done them is NAI, and I'm not sure why you want that.

[Bingle]

Hopefully this flips scum and we can just flip a townie to get rid of the Jester.

Also, I'm a little disappointed you didn't give me the hammer there. I would've pretended briefly to back out on my policy to fuck with Wis.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle

Don’t have the energy to wifom it.

GG wp. Honestly thought I was fucked for a while.

[Bingle]

jester

Me.

[Bingle]

I don't understand why Bingle would claim to be Jester if he is the Jester?

Doesn't this make it impossible for him to win?

Wrong answer.

VOTE: Anastasia

[Bingle]

I don't understand why Bingle would claim to be Jester if he is the Jester?

Doesn't this make it impossible for him to win?

one of two possibilities

: either he misread the gamestate and believed he was mistakenly self-hammering or it’s a trick to get one of you, me, Wisdom to hammer him.

he is definitely not town and if we can figure out one scum today, and if he doesn’t leave the game, he 100% dies d4 if we get it right.

Wisdom thinks it’s imaginality > LQ. rn i lean the converse but not sure. that’s why we shouldn’t rush this.

Not true, but you can be forgiven for thinking that.

Possibility 1: I am attempting to prevent my elimination today as town because my elimination is the only one I know for certain loses me the game and I have a 40% chance of any other elimination keeping the game going.

Possibility 2: I am attempting to force my elimination as scum to prevent a jester win because I don’t know who the fuck is jester and I think my partner wins regardless.

Possibility 3: I am jester who misread the game state.

Possibility 4: I am jester who read the game state accurately and think this will get an elimination on me.

Possibility 5: I am scum who is trying to ensure the lim is on someone who isn’t me.

Regardless, Ana perspective slipped by not considering that I could be scum here.

[Bingle]

if Anastasia’s scum and you’re town, why didn’t she just hammer you then?

Because she doesn’t know if I’m jester?

Scum is just as afraid of jester as town is.

[Bingle]

you could be hammered by scum there with what you did
youre definitely not town

I mean... I could have. Theoretically. But again, scum is just as scared of limming Jester as town is.

The tl;dr is that I either am Jester or want people to think I'm Jester.

[Bingle]

VOTE: LQ

[Bingle]

Wisdom it was interesting to see how you figured out jester identity before everyone else.

I was buddying him hard and he knew I couldn't be scum.

That does explain some things.


Also, I did know I wasn't hammering the first time and was hoping to bait a hammer. I did not know I wasn't hammering the second time.

[Bingle]

This is probably the first jester game I’m aware of where scum won.

My first Jester game I won as scum. Wis was the mod, actually.

I also didn't realize countdown timers default to a specific timezone when expired. It's an interesting function which doesn't make any sense to me, tbh.

[Bingle]

I wanted Clem limmed at various times too. If we'd gone for Clem over Cakez at D1 deadline this game would have gone very differently

God, I'd have loved to flip a goon D1.

[Bingle]

Bingle, I think you were pretty obviously jester to me by your play last day but if you had said, “yes, I’m jester but the scumteam is Wisdom, Anastasia”, I might have listened to you, because you would have no reason to try to deceive me atp.

Posting at all meant I couldn’t win, so I asked for permission to concede and then conceded. It honestly didn’t matter which faction I was conceding to.

[Bingle]

But you helped scum by hammering LQ. You didn’t have to do that. :/

I helped the notLQ faction. And it wasn’t to spite LQ either, which I’m pretty sure he knows.I didn’t particularly care which faction it was, just that for me it was game ending.

[Bingle]

But I’m upset about you helping scum win. you should have stayed our of it then.

I mean... Functionally that's what I did.

If it helps, look at it this way. I conceded. There were then 5 people alive, with 3 voting for LQ and LQ died.

Expecting me, as not town, to townside by trying to figure out people's alignments would be unfair to scum. Expecting me, as not town, to sit in a game that I literally had a 0% chance to win and post periodically would be unfair to me. I asked for permission to concede and conceded. I'm not sorry, and I'm not magically going to become sorry.

And again, I wasn't helping any specific faction win. I was removing myself from a game where I had no chance to win. There's a reason any competent mod has a 3rd party whose win con becomes unachievable ripcord out of the game.

[Bingle]

I guess I feel mildly better that I was basically hammered because people knew I was Town, so silver lining I guess.

Hate to disappoint, but I never actually attempted to read you. Just decided you'd be likely to react unfavorably to an unreasonable death tunnel and then unreasonably death tunneled you.

[Bingle]

Eh. It’s your right to be annoyed. Just like it’s my right to not want to be stuck in a game that had no point.

I’m not going to apologize though, because I wouldn’t mean it and apologizing when I don’t believe I’ve done anything wrong cheapens my apologies when I have.