Open 835: D6 | Songs About Ronald Reagan | Day 5

[numberQ]

I have analyzed this setup extensively and based on tells from the mod I can conclusively confirm the following:

We do not have an Innocent Child.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[numberQ]

VOTE: Enchant

[numberQ]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oracle

Sounds like the Role Oracle might get to ask the mod if there's a certain role in the game?

[numberQ]

Role Oracle would definitely be useful in this setup to help us figure out what dice numbers we got.

[numberQ]

Well it says "Mafia Scum" under Roden's username so I think you're onto something.

VOTE: Roden

[numberQ]

Then vote them

[numberQ]

Which people?

[numberQ]

Is it just me or has every single Galron post been completely indecipherable?

[numberQ]

oohhhhhh

I like the references. But what a weird self-imposed post restriction.

[numberQ]

Thought you were asking me at first, then I realized "Q" probably just means "question".

I'm gonna unvote before this turns into a Thing
UNVOTE:

Considering no other things have happened or are happening, I say thing it up. Why is your vote better off the wagon than on it?

[numberQ]

VOTE: Gamma

He said there was nothing important to discuss so let's make something to discuss.

[numberQ]

Why, what's a vanilla townie gonna tell us about the setup?

[numberQ]

Definitely at least one scum on that quick wagon. Not sure if it's ssbm or if she just has bad reads. 86 is the exact opposite of stalling, so if you're going to SR me for it at least try to be consistent. The vote in 94 was what, E-3? In no world is that claim fishing. 118 was such an obvious joke that if it somehow did get Gamma to claim otherwise, I'd say we deserve whatever we get coming to us for it.

[numberQ]

/shrug, most of the votes were pretty opportunistic, including yours. I think this wagon is going to be one piece of evidence to help expose them later, whoever it is.

[numberQ]

You say we're oppotunistic for voting you. By those same standards, do you not consider your own votes and pushes opportunistic?

Well it says "Mafia Scum" under Roden's username so I think you're onto something.

VOTE: Roden

Unironically Roden is scum

Then vote them

VOTE: Gamma

He said there was nothing important to discuss so let's make something to discuss.

The only one of those that's close to opportunistic is the last one. I strongly believe one of the best ways to drive early discussion is to throw wagons around and see what discussions fall out. Case in point, this wagon on me has produced a discussion that is making me TR you.

[numberQ]

Conversely, getting a scum vibe from Meg's reactions to everything.

[numberQ]

Is it opportunistic when you announce the exact reason why your doing it and it doesn’t end up being false?

It being opportunistic or not is unrelated to either of those things.

[numberQ]

Unassailable Meg scum case:

The vibes they are giving off are scummy.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

[numberQ]

Is it opportunistic when you announce the exact reason why your doing it and it doesn’t end up being false?

It being opportunistic or not is unrelated to either of those things.

uh…..ok. It’s not opportunistic if the reason for your action has basis and is not simply because the opportunity presents itself.

Someone can place a vote and give it a reason, and still be doing so opportunistically. That's how they try and hide the opportunism. Scum will not just be trying to come up with fake reads on people, but also try to time it right to keep up the momentum. So they will often hold back on saying things until the opportunity presents itself.

[numberQ]

Fake it til you make it, how else do you play Mafia?

[numberQ]

Early reads, in order from towniest to scummiest:

Town:
Roden
Penguin

Leantown:
A50
ssbm
redtea
Gamma

Null:
Galron
mozamis
Not_Mafia

Leanscum:
Enchant
Egix
Meg

Scum:
numberQ

I can elaborate on any of these if asked but I'm not going to elaborate on all of them right now, too much work.

[numberQ]

Early reads, in order from towniest to scummiest:

Town:
Roden
Penguin

Leantown:
A50
ssbm
redtea
Gamma

Null:
Galron
mozamis
Not_Mafia

Leanscum:
Enchant
Egix
Meg

Scum:
numberQ

I can elaborate on any of these if asked but I'm not going to elaborate on all of them right now, too much work.

Why i am not in town list?

Why should you be? I didn't like your vote bouncing off and on Gamma so rapidly.

Did you notice who is confirmed scum, btw?

(That was a joke on the same level as when I jokingly implied Gamma was VT, btw)

[numberQ]

(That was a joke on the same level as when I jokingly implied Gamma was VT, btw)

Are you saying the rest of the readlist was serious? because I assumed it was all upside down tbh. If you did mean I was a Town lean to you I would like a short explanation. I don't think i did anything alliance indicative thus far, unless you're meta-reading me. Is that it?

Partially meta. I don't really know what your scum game looks like, but you're giving me the same vibes as from NEP3. You were on side "meme game" in that one, but still, you were town and looked like this.

Otherwise it's just a vague feeling I get from your posts. 168 in particular didn't feel like scum because I don't think scum would blatantly say that instead of giving a few fake reads.

Admittedly, a somewhat weak read. Maybe you should be a couple slots lower, though still in the leantown category.

Early reads, in order from towniest to scummiest:

Town:
Roden
Penguin

Leantown:
A50
ssbm
redtea
Gamma

Null:
Galron
mozamis
Not_Mafia

Leanscum:
Enchant
Egix
Meg

Scum:
numberQ

I can elaborate on any of these if asked but I'm not going to elaborate on all of them right now, too much work.

I'm vibing with this reads list for the most part.

Why are you town reading Penguin?

Penguin questioning and then voting me felt genuine. Idk, I generally townread people who question me and/or scumread me, at least in the early game.

If you're vibing with it for the most part, what stands out to you as not vibe-worthy?

[numberQ]

I can tell I'm not going to enjoy Galron's gimmick, even if I like the source material... It's not even a wild or potentially meme-worthy setup, I don't get bringing RP stuff like that into games like this.

[numberQ]

So do we treat E-2 like E-1 with N_M around? Like if someone has intent to put Enchant at E-2, he should claim? I'm not saying I have that intent quite yet. Just wondering.

[numberQ]

*if someone has intent to put Enchant at

E-1

not E-2, typo

[numberQ]

I can tell I'm not going to enjoy Galron's gimmick, even if I like the source material... It's not even a wild or potentially meme-worthy setup, I don't get bringing RP stuff like that into games like this.

I'm a saint, you know. I'm a living saint, and I get absolutely nothing out of it.

Hello darkness my old friend...

[numberQ]

Someone put Q on E-1 please

Eh, I feel like his reaction to being wagoned was slightly more towny than not. I'm curious as to why he leans scum on me though, and also Roden implicitly agreeing.

My read on you was pretty much entirely based on your 166. I'm not seeing the throughline of logic or emotion for you to land on a vote for redtea or TRs for Roden/Meg. Which to me smells like scum trying to fake reads.

More recently, I don't like 235. Gamma ultimately

wasn't

yeeted, which I think is much more telling than

almost

getting yeeted. (not you, Almost )

Egix, do you have any opinions on Enchant getting pissed off by his wagon? I have thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.

[numberQ]

Hmm. I kind of see the utility in doing that. But I also see at least one situation where this will just out a PR, particularly cops. If a non-cop and a cop both target someone who is widely SRed, then the non-cop is essentially forced to claim a guilty verdict as part of this smokescreen strategy. Because if they claim innocent, their SR will have to change to a TR, otherwise they're admitting that they are not the cop and the whole strategy is useless. But if the targeted player actually is town, then the real cop will have to claim an innocent result, otherwise the breadcrumb is useless. Which pretty much outs them as the cop.

Might be more examples of how this outs PRs, haven't sat down and thought through every possible scenario.

[numberQ]

VOTE: Enchant

Biggest wagon right now, and he's on the bottom half of my reads list already. If discussion is stagnating I feel like we should at least keep up the vote momentum.

[numberQ]

What's weird about Roden's tone?

[numberQ]

I think Enchant's strategy will be chaotic at best, and actively out PRs at worst. The possible town utility seems more difficult to achieve, and has to survive into lategame anyway to actually be useful. Whether or not scum!Enchant was planning on that, it's hard to say, especially if he got the strat from the wiki. So I'm currently not putting any stock in it alignment-wise at all. Might be something to consider if Enchant survives to tomorrow, to sort him out later based on further reads. But for now, with very little else to go on day 1 so far, I'm gonna vote him

[numberQ]

mod is scum, probably

[numberQ]

I like to use a spreadsheet when I mod. All players listed down the left, then each player voting them in cells growing towards the right.

[numberQ]

Well, we know it's a 3 scum team from the setup. It's just the number of PRs that's up in the air.

And I'm also unsure why scum!Enchant = town!Galron, I figured it was just because Galron is impenetrable to me but if someone else doesn't see it either then maybe it's just a confusing read.

[numberQ]

I'd say we should wait for a claim at least. Though I can't tell if I'm just saying that because of site meta. What would a claim tell us, besides force the real role to counter if it exists?

[numberQ]

I'm doubting my vote. I don't know if scum doubles down on the crumbing strategy after no one agreed with it.

[numberQ]

Are you scumreading Gamma?

[numberQ]

I don't think I've seen the episodes of Arrested Development Galron is quoting today

Gamma has dropped way down my reads list. I don't have time right now to say more about it because work. Still pretty sure Roden is town, though I haven't looked back at his stuff knowing the two flips yet.

pedit: afaict A50 is correct. A town tracker only exists if the I slot was rolled 4 times, which leaves 2 more rolls for the other slots. 1 P + 1 K = Bodyguard and 1-shot vig. 2 P = Doctor. 2 K = 2-shot vig.

[numberQ]

I was going to build a case on Gamma centered around his interactions with the Enchant wagon, but looking back through posts 202 until the hammer, I think I convinced myself those interactions were more town than not. I still think the vote on Galron was bad, but I changed my mind about Gamma being scum for now.

I poked around a few other ISOs to try and make sense of my reads in light of the Enchant flip. And I still like Egix for scum, though it would be nice to get some more activity out of him.

Can anyone explain why Moz was the kill here? I don't see a crumb in his ISO, I don't think he made any serious reads, and I don't think he was globally TR'd even.

moz voted N_M, TRed redtea, TRed Roden, soft TRed Enchant, and voted N_M again. Their case on N_M seemed to be purely policy as far as I could tell, so I don't think scum were setting up a mislim. If redtea or Roden are scum, maybe they wanted us all to see TRs come to them from a town flip.

Honestly though, I think there's a strong chance it was to provide us as little info as possible with the flip. You could argue Galron or N_M would be better choices if that was the goal, but A) maybe they're scum, and B) if they're town I think there was enough support D1 to mislim either of them that scum might bank on that happening later.

[numberQ]

Why am I( not being wagoned in this game?? I haven't done anything remotely beneficial and I have no clue on DAY TWO. Kinda feel intrigued tbh.

Also, as for the Moz kill I tried to see if someone had "extensive experience" with him. Turns out Gamma (8 games), Myself (7 games) and N_M (6 games) are the only players than count, and it would be hypocritic to accuse either of Gamma/N_M and pretend not to be a suspect for the same reason.

P.S. Search continues to work in a funny way. It fails to find ANY games for Moz that has Meg in them, and any for Meg that have Moz in them. Everyone else has at least THIS ONE showing, but for some odd reason "No suitable matches were found." shows every time I try searching for one of them in the other's topics.

Are you trying to tell me 212 wasn't beneficial?

Anyway I like the pressure on Egix.

VOTE: Egix

[numberQ]

I keep going back and forth on whether I think redtea and Roden is TvS or TvT

[numberQ]

Sigh I feel like I'm getting nowhere. NumberQ has the best posting imo, in a vacuum it would have been Roden instead but I'm too paranoid.
Penguin's ISO is the most underwhelming. He seems more invested in chiming in to say barely-helpful things than actually producing content.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Penguin had the opportunity to unvote Gamma and prevent a N_M quickhammer, but didn't take it. Do you think this means anything about Gamma's alignment if Penguin is scum?

[numberQ]

^ bad vote

[numberQ]

Because that took a few minutes to look into and was a one-and-done
Also: I know how you work and I think the less I substantiate my push on you, the better it’ll work out

Really interested in hearing how this post is town motivated whatsoever.

[numberQ]

???

We had like, 2 sets of competing wagons on D1 alone.

[numberQ]

Gamma vs Roden and Enchant vs Galron

Spoiler: vote counts

Votecount:

• Gamma Emerald (2): Roden, Galron
  Roden (2): numberQ, ssbm_Kyouko
  MegAzumarill (1): Egix96
  Enchant (1): MegAzumarill
  ssbm_Kyouko (1): PenguinPower
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-11-10 07:56:01).
With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Votecount:

• Enchant (2): Almost50, ssbm_Kyouko
  Galron (2): Roden, Gamma Emerald
  Gamma Emerald (2): MegAzumarill, Not_Mafia
  numberQ (1): PenguinPower
  Not_Mafia (1): mozamis
  MegAzumarill (1): numberQ
  redtea (1): Egix96
  Roden (1): Galron

I'm doing VC's by hand, please tell me if there are any errors.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-11-10 07:56:01).
With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

And I'm pretty sure there was a lot of voting and unvoting between counts that would show even more competition between wagons.

[numberQ]

So 2 votes with 7 to elim is not a wagon, but 2 votes with 6 to elim is? Didn't realize there was such a difference between E-5 and E-4. Even E-3 is not that much different from the D1 wagons.

[numberQ]

It was 3v2 before you voted. But whatever, I'll back down. I don't really think you or I being right or wrong is AI either way.

[numberQ]

What the fuck? Every post in that interaction felt hugely disproportionate to the emotional reaction warranted to what was actually being said. I don't know if you guys both have weird chips on your shoulders or what. Tempted to say TvT but I don't know, getting a pingy feeling that it's all highly performative and you could be SvS.

[numberQ]

It's partly gut making me think Roden and Penguin are the same alignment. Trying to put it into words, it's something like, I'm not sure scum would fight against town that hard in this scenario. It draws a lot of attention to themselves for what seems like little gain.

Maybe

it's SvT with scum!Penguin, and this is all to stop their wagon. But it'd be an odd strategy, I'd sooner expect a buddy instead of the scum himself to make a push like this, chainsaw style.

[numberQ]

It's partly gut making me think Roden and Penguin are the same alignment. Trying to put it into words, it's something like, I'm not sure scum would fight against town that hard in this scenario. It draws a lot of attention to themselves for what seems like little gain.

Maybe

it's SvT with scum!Penguin, and this is all to stop their wagon. But it'd be an odd strategy, I'd sooner expect a buddy instead of the scum himself to make a push like this, chainsaw style.

That seems logical actually
I was a little sus of you for that post in general because you posted some stuff like it in Squid Game and u were scum there

To be fair, Squid Game was weird. And the parts I was alive for were barely Mafia lol

---

I think redtea is asking the right questions to Egix, particularly 535 and 555. Egix's answers make me more confident in my scumread of him.

I'd also like Egix to flip because I think scum!Egix points towards town!Penguin. Both for Penguin's vote on him at day start, and for Egix's 413.

[numberQ]

Hey ssbm, what's your read on Egix?

[numberQ]

Also town!Egix does not point to scum!Penguin the same way scum!Egix points to town!Penguin.

[numberQ]

Feels like ssbm is chainsaw defending Egix. Admittedly her response to me asking for a read on Egix is not what I would expect from S-S in that pairing. But it's not an auto towntell either.

[numberQ]

I want to effort.. I really do.. I just don't feel like it, so..

Hi

Thank you Almost50, very cool!

[numberQ]

P sure I have been pushing you as scum since before Egix was a hot topic, what makes you think this is a chainsaw? Curious because the feeling I get right now is that you're trying me to your buddy as you bus them (assuming you're scum here)

Scum can easily use a previous fake push as bait for a chainsaw, you don't have to come up with a new one. And I think your pushes on me are bad and totally unsubstantiated aside from a single nonsense argument way early in the game. Also, if you think I'm bussing then I was doing it from day 1, where I put my scumbuddy almost at the bottom of my reads list. Why would scum!me do that without provocation?

[numberQ]

I'd also like Egix to flip because I think scum!Egix points towards town!Penguin. Both for Penguin's vote on him at day start, and for Egix's 413.

Scum makes posts like #413 with their partner all the time though

Do you think the other scum then goes on to bus their partner back, and argue vehemently for several pages that it's not a real scum read, it's just to have a competing wagon? It's like they're both aiming at each other without having any good reasons for it. You see this same thing with how both their attacks on each other fizzled. Penguin jumped off Egix pretty quickly onto a non-wagon, followed by Egix saying he never had a strong read on Penguin in the first place.

Well shit, I think while writing those sentences I convinced myself it could be SvS actually.

[numberQ]

What is that, both wagons at 4 votes? We have a little less than 24 hours left in the deadline. I still think Egix is scummier even if there's a possibility of them both being scum, so would

prefer

my vote to be here. But if we get too much closer to the deadline I'm willing to switch to avoid a no kill.

[numberQ]

So was that hammer? If Penguin's town, the fuck dude, replace out if you have that much of a problem. Don't screw over the rest of your team like that.

[numberQ]

No. Self-hammering deprives town of useful information. It's BARELY an acceptable strategy as scum, and completely unacceptable as town. I really hope you're scum for this.

[numberQ]

^ that was to Penguin, not Gamma

[numberQ]

No. Self-hammering deprives town of useful information. It's BARELY an acceptable strategy as scum, and completely unacceptable as town. I really hope you're scum for this.

there was no useful information re: my previous points.

What point? That you were at 5v2 and N_M was probably going to hammer anyway? Not really a defense for self-hammering. We were still deprived of information.

[numberQ]

Because Enchant's vote wasn't a hammer? And I doubt the usability of anything we're getting out of this honestly

[numberQ]

replace out if you have that much of a problem.

this is also against the rules

no it isn't??? Replacing out is definitely what you SHOULD do if you have a personal disagreement that affects your ability to play

As such, do not tell other players to replace out.

I'm not going to litigate this in game. I'm also not going to replace out at 5v2 with less than 10 hours to go and 3 claimed hammers. It's laughable if you think more info was going to come versus the risk of a no lim.

Weren't you the one earlier in the thread saying something about selective quoting? The "as such" refers to bringing outside influence into the game. You were already hammered. There was no outside influence.

[numberQ]

Self-voting deprives you of information same as self-hammering - i'd argue in some cases more so since it can be the impetus to push a wagon to its end rather than just solidifying it.

odd justification.

That is just not true. Self-voting is a valid strategy. I've seen it completely derail wagons before. And the hammer is literally the most important vote on any wagon, so even if you're focusing entirely on information given, a self-hammer loses out on way more than a mid-wagon vote, even putting yourself at E-1 like Enchant did.

[numberQ]

Alright. I'm not going to argue anymore. Sorry if I got hostile, self-hammering pisses me off because I always just see it as throwing. Maybe I'll get where you're coming from after I cool off.

[numberQ]

Calling it, scum's PR is role cop and they investigated Meg N1.

Idk if that helps at all. Just wanted to call it

[numberQ]

VOTE: Egix

Nothing has changed with my Egix read. In fact, the Penguin flip makes me more confident with it. Though I am slightly concerned that we have 3 scum left on day 3 and I only have 1 SR I feel decently about. I don't have time right now to do so, but I'll need to look back through the game, because I think the competing wagons yesterday will tell us a lot in hindsight.

So I guess you were right, Penguin.

[numberQ]

What's the case on Almost? Just that he's been trolly all game and was on both mislims? Seems a little weak to me.

[numberQ]

Take after skimming back through day 2: Meg's interactions with both of the wagons are sus as hell and I think they are scumbuddies with Egix.

[numberQ]

I also think Almost is town and this wagon on him is weird. If my {Meg, Egix} theory is right, I think the remaining scum is on that wagon.

[numberQ]

jesus. why does this keep happening.

I did the EXACT same thing in Squid Game, somehow I forget who died when I play games

[numberQ]

I was going to wait to get prodded to make a point of letting everyone else talk, but now I think that would just be rude and pointless.

VOTE: NumberQ

Let's just sheep Kyo and hope she's right.

You mean sheep the person that had switched their vote to Egix and was starting to lose their tunnel vision on me? But okay, let's assume you didn't realize she was no longer voting me. Why sheep her specifically?

N_M: No clue what you're doing. I guess I expected nothing but hammers from you based on reputation. Does this mean you think I'm scum?

RH9: sheeping Roden for some reason. I don't really know why you're trying to reaction fish from me specifically when there were two other wagons with the same number of votes or more at the time of your vote.

Galron's vote being a reaction fish makes slightly more sense than RH9's, because it puts me at E-1. Though I have to wonder why I'm worthy of that but Egix wasn't, who had been at E-2 for several pages.

I dunno, this wagon is weird. It doesn't feel like a real wagon. Literally the only person this entire game who's made a case against me is ssbm, and she's not even voting me.

I don't even know why numberQ is being wagoned. I also notice that Roden and Galron moved there after having been on me. What's the deal with this? And why is N_M already voting (rather than the usual "wait for the lol!hammer")?

Your wagon stalled, so now they're pushing another mislim on me. Tell me it looks like anything else. It almost seems too obvious though, like if it is both of them and their buddy is Egix, would the counter push really be so blatant? That gives me some pause about my theory.

It is worth pointing out that scum have daytalk according to the setup rules, so this level of coordination is expected.

[numberQ]

[snip]

UNVOTE: numberQ
Ok, I guess that I need to reassess everything. Are you saying Roden and Galron are coordinating? (Or this an attempt to make me feel betrayed by Galron and vote him over you?) But then, I'll UNVOTE: numberQ.

Yeah, I was suggesting Roden and Galron could have coordinated trying to mislim Almost and then myself. I do think Almost is town, and I think my wagon has had very flimsy justification for it overall, which would imply scum activity.

Also I didn't read most of your meta research, sorry. It was just a bunch of no context quotes. If you or someone else points to specific things in this game that relate to meta, then I'll pay attention.

[numberQ]

Hmm. I don't know, I still like Egix for the lim. Their play has been scummier than Roden and Galron imo. Plus, them flipping scum will give us a lot more info than one of the other two flipping scum, at least in terms of lending validity to my theory. Maybe there are other associations that a Roden or Galron flip would shed light on that I'm not thinking of.

[numberQ]

The conversation right now is mostly about the wagons that are currently happening, so probably necessary to at least read the current day. Beyond that, this game has honestly been pretty slow.

pedit: Well I'm voting Egix and have been SRing him since day 1. I think his lim will help build associations on Roden and/or Galron. Maaaybe RH9, though at the moment I think that's a flimsier connection. I've talked about this in previous posts this day.

[numberQ]

Hmm. I don't know, I still like Egix for the lim. Their play has been scummier than Roden and Galron imo. Plus, them flipping scum will give us a lot more info than one of the other two flipping scum, at least in terms of lending validity to my theory. Maybe there are other associations that a Roden or Galron flip would shed light on that I'm not thinking of.

You do realise that if I were scum, it would have been +ev for me to lolhammer you? Sure, that would have been outing, but it ensures you would've died before me.

[snip]

So you're saying scum would trade one of their own for me? I'm flattered you think I'm that good, but the facts are that I was very close to being limmed anyway. A scum team including you could have easily banked on town hammering to maintain reputation.

That said, while writing the above I did realize that with a perfect scum game three days in, maybe trading would have been the play for scum to make. It would have put the game in ELo if I'm not mistaken.

What do others make of this idea that Egix would have hammered me if he was scum?

Take after skimming back through day 2: Meg's interactions with both of the wagons are sus as hell and I think they are scumbuddies with Egix.

I also think Almost is town and this wagon on him is weird. If my {Meg, Egix} theory is right, I think the remaining scum is on that wagon.

Does mafia dumbtell this?

I did a similar thing in Squid Game, and I was mafia there. But I blame it more on being super busy with work the past few months and thus slightly scatterbrained, more than any kind of meta or tell. fwiw I don't think I've ever had a mix up like that in other games, as mafia or town.

The conversation right now is mostly about the wagons that are currently happening, so probably necessary to at least read the current day. Beyond that, this game has honestly been pretty slow.

pedit: Well I'm voting Egix and have been SRing him since day 1. I think his lim will help build associations on Roden and/or Galron. Maaaybe RH9, though at the moment I think that's a flimsier connection. I've talked about this in previous posts this day.

I'm liking

RH9

at the moment

Can you quote key posts that build your scumread on

Egix

?

And what do you mean by

'build associations on

Roden/Galron

"

? This sounds like confbias but I want to hear you explain.

My case on Egix is a little scattered. I guess it starts in 236. He was more or less off my radar day 2. Then today the wagons on Almost and myself are pinging me like crazy that it's scum trying to keep us off Egix. That's also where my Roden/Galron associations come up, because of their interactions with both of those wagons. If Egix is in fact scum, I think it's likely his scum buddies were trying to protect him. Which is why I want Egix to go first.

[numberQ]

[snip]

NumberQ just got picked because Kyo pushed a scum read there and I wanted to get people talking. I consider it a good move because it got Q talking quite a bit and gave us more to work with in order to read him. His accusation against me that I coordinated a wagon on him in a PT was so reactionary and paranoid that it basically made him town tell.

I didn't switch my vote yet because honestly I kinda just didn't want to play the past couple days. And everyone else was talking a lot so I wanted to see how it would go.

I don't think it was just paranoia/reaction. Imo the theory is quite sound. Buuuuut it is contingent on Egix being scum, and I'm starting to be convinced that he's not.

UNVOTE: Egix

---

RH9, have you played in many games before? I was looking through your post history and it looks like you've spectated a lot, but I didn't see one where you actually played except for the Newbie on your wiki page. I didn't look through your entire posting history though.

[numberQ]

We're one mislim away from ELo with a full scum team. That's not really a scenario I feel comfortable in pursuing a policy lim. Unless there's more meat behind Roden's and RH9's votes on N_M which I'm not seeing.

I do think there's bones behind the RH9 wagon, but part of me also sees his behavior as newb play. Though granted I guess it could be both, and he's newb scum. This is what's currently stopping me from declaring intent to put him at E-1 (which I guess is a thing you're supposed to do with N_M in the game, wild).

Does anyone have thoughts on what an RH9 scum flip means for who the rest of his team is? Newb scum might sheep their buddy as hard as RH9 seemed to be sheeping Roden.

[numberQ]

[snip] And plus, my scumgame usually revolves around bussing my active partners (not my inactive partners because that's pointless). [snip]

Are you talking about off-site experience? Because just one page ago you said you've only played a single game on-site, and you were town in that one.

Nothing against you; RH, but I think we need talk a LOT about how you play. For now I want to point out that

reading the setup and knowing how the game went

is much much much more important than "meta hunting" (which is not even "the game", but people insist to prioritize it over actual scum hunting for some reason).

You wanna know why I unvoted? because you claimed.. which -surprise surprise- tells me you've been playing a game you know absolutely nothing about. Y'see this is an open setup, and we have 2 flipped TPRs already, which is -according to the dice rolls- all we had. This means EVERYONE left is a VT, and no one cares to ask for a claim anymore.

So, your inexperience almost got you killed, but it also got you saved eventually. Not that I'm impressed, because -frankly- I had expected more from you (this means you left a gppd impression in that dead & spectators thread). I hope you will learn this lesson (and we still can talk about how you play/post post-game if you like)

Why can't scum also be mistaken about the setup and claim VT? Especially a player who replaced in so late in the game.

[numberQ]

I'm unsure about both wagons. Feels like every read or theory I've had this game has been ripped up.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I don't want a no lim, and Almost is one of my few strong TRs so I'll sheep his TR of RH9. That's E-1 I believe.

[numberQ]

I don't think RH9 is at E-1, Egix switched off him to vote N_M. Unless I counted wrong.

[numberQ]

I felt the opposite about the N_M wagon, I think scum could have seen it as a way to get easy town cred off a highly inactive teammate.

[numberQ]

I felt the opposite about the N_M wagon, I think scum could have seen it as a way to get easy town cred off a highly inactive teammate.

then how do you feel about the individual votes and its wagon composition?

Most likely to be scum on the wagon is Egix imo. I've flipflopped on him a few times, but based on sheer timing and my general read on him, that's my current thought.

Re: Egix's case on A50. I can kind of see it. But it reads more to me like attempts to solve, plus the first post you quoted has a scumteam guess that didn't just tack N_M on at the end. The only strange part about all of this is why he wasn't voting anyone by day end.

[numberQ]

numberQ, who do you want eliminated?
(I admit. This is to help me read people based on whether they are wishing to eliminate out of spite or out of actual solving intent.)

If I had to choose somebody right now, it would be Egix. I'm not super confident about it, though. What do you mean you're looking for people that want to eliminate out of spite? Like, who could I have said that would have made you think that?

[numberQ]

Why TR Egix, Galron? "no great reason" implies there's some reason, I'm curious what it is.

[numberQ]

Man, whenever I try to look back at this game my mind just goes blank. Does

anyone

have any strong TRs or SRs? I feel pretty confident about my Almost TR, but that's it. I don't know if sheeping him again onto ssbm is the right move or if I should go with my gut and vote Egix.

fuck it, no one's in danger of being limmed right now

VOTE: Egix

[numberQ]

I was going to post my latest PoE but it hasn't changed. A50, Taly, Kyouko and RH9 all fit the bill right now.

Why is Almost50 and Taly in there? (Though, at least you didn't put numberQ in there or I would have voted you straight away. I find numberQ to be the most genuinely frustrated at the game.)

I don't know what I've done that's more genuine than other players' frustrations. Do you find A50's frustration in 1010 and 1011 less genuine?

[numberQ]

I was asking RH9, thanks for answering for him.

pedit: Not really sure what that means. You said you would have voted Galron if he included me on his list. So clearly something differentiates me from the others that were on his list.

[numberQ]

[snip]

Man, whenever I try to look back at this game my mind just goes blank. Does

anyone

have any strong TRs or SRs? I feel pretty confident about my Almost TR, but that's it. I don't know if sheeping him again onto ssbm is the right move or if I should go with my gut and vote Egix.

fuck it, no one's in danger of being limmed right now

VOTE: Egix

Based on NM interactions, I have you as the most cleared with A50 and Kyouko looking the worst.

A50 is voting Kyouko, who has been at E-1 for a bit. That's pretty ballsy bussing if they're both scum. IMO, going with your reads here, SvT is more likely. Who do you think is scum then in this interaction? Or do you think it is in fact bussing?

[numberQ]

That's pretty ballsy bussing

I'm not castrated. WTF? (actually but I had to make it look serious to get you to laugh at it)

I may not have laughed, but I did breathe some air through my nose slightly harder than usual.

Replacing ssbm_Kyouko. Deadline is frozen.

Help a poor mod. Lim the empty slot.

I'd like to hear from the replacement actually. VCA notwithstanding, I found Kyouko's actual content more townlean than not, if a little tunnel-y. So I'm not convinced she should be the lim today. And if the deadline's frozen, what's the harm in waiting?

[numberQ]

Also..

@Lady Chloe: If you're Town, you can trust me. Bet.

wait who's Lady Chloe?

[numberQ]

ugh, homework

[numberQ]

Okay, it's Taly. Noted lol

[numberQ]

What do you think about Egix's theory that A50 is bussing Kyouko? I think it's so outrageously unlikely that it's almost making me TR him.

[numberQ]

How does a dead maf affect your ability to find Egix's theory AI?

[numberQ]

@mod

, can you reverse the order of the votes you have on Kyouko in the VC? A50 voted first, then Taly, then RH9.

Which leads me to ask Egix, what do you mean by "a yeet on kyouko looked fairly likely at that point"? Because either you weren't paying attention when you formed a scumread on A50, or you somehow though there was a likely lim when he put her at E-3.

[numberQ]

Where did everybody go?

I miss talking to somebody who isn't Galron even though he feels like the only person who is ever around.

Hey, I've been more or less posting

Plus you posted that at 3:49 in the morning my time. I think that's just the hazard of time zones when you live in Australia and play on this site.

[numberQ]

I'm melding with you on the N_M bussing take.

[numberQ]

So vote Egix then.

[numberQ]

Who do you think Taly's scumbuddy is? I assume you're voting him because you think he's most likely to be scum. I ask because I feel more confident in scum!Egix than scum!Taly, but I'd be willing to explore scum!Taly after Egix flips. I think Egix is at E-1 right now unless I counted wrong.

[numberQ]

Oh you're right, I looked back and I guess I did count wrong.

[numberQ]

hmmmmmmmmm

[numberQ]

Does scum bus both their partners to death like this? Assuming Taly does get limmed, and Egix is scum. I'm starting to feel a scumteam out of {Egix, Galron}, though I haven't looked back at the thread to point at concrete evidence. It's just pinging me.

[numberQ]

Did I miss where you defended Taly?

[numberQ]

A50 making up a narrative on behalf of Egix at the end of yesterday was weird. Idk if it means something AI or not, but it was weird.

[numberQ]

Please dither. I've strongly TRed A50 for a large portion of the game. Why is he the last scum?

[numberQ]

Why does scum!A50 NK bloodhail?

[numberQ]

I

was

asking Egix lol. He's the one voting A50 so idk why someone else would answer a question that presupposes A50 is scum. Unless they also think A50 is scum.

[numberQ]

Who do you think we should lim today, RH9?

[numberQ]

These two posts:

VOTE: Taly

It's Taly & Egix. Wgix voted Taly in hopes he can use it against me next (claiming I defended Taly). I don't care.

Did I miss where you defended Taly?

No, but it will be Egix' narrative anyway

[numberQ]

bloodhail came in strong and immediately put Egix at the bottom of his reads list. You could argue that just paints a target on Egix, but then again, blood was one of three next to myself and A50 who ALSO had Egix very low or at the bottom. So maybe it was just a matter of taking out someone he thought was dangerous.

[numberQ]

I'm nervous though. I don't know what I'd do or re-evaluate if we lim Egix and still end up going into Day 6. (Day 6 in D6 )

[numberQ]

Regardless I think this clears Galron in my book. I don't think scum puts this much effort into diverting attention away from the A50/Egix rivalry when it'd be easy to get two mislims in a row off it. Town Egix miiiiiiight lower my rating of A50 somewhat. Though ultimately I would probably call RH9 my second choice in a hypothetical ELo.

[numberQ]

I hate quad posting, but I forgot to say I'm holding off on an actual vote until we hear from Egix at least one more time.

[numberQ]

Please dither. I've strongly TRed A50 for a large portion of the game. Why is he the last scum?

The simple answer is that the way he acted towards the end of D4 makes no sense coming from town. I thought he was practically openwolfing. Plus I don't really see anyone else as scum here.

Are you talking about what I said at day start, where A50 put a narrative in your mouth? Saying that makes

no sense

as town is a bit of a stretch. I could see it coming from either side, it's more indicative of confidence than alignment imo. Confident scum, or confident town. If I'm off base and there's something else to his end of D4 play that pinged you let me know.

But overall this really just strikes me as scum faced with 4 players who are TRed to various extents and trying to build a flimsy case on one of them. Maybe RH9 is the more obvious mislim target since there was a decent amount of contention around his slot for a bit, but I don't think it's ridiculous that scum!Egix chooses A50 to attack over RH9.

VOTE: Egix

E-1 I believe?

[numberQ]

Huh, I did kind of gloss over that in the moment. A50, why did you lie there?

[numberQ]

Well that's unfortunate. I don't even know if it's worth waiting for the replacement to chime in. I'll keep my vote here.

[numberQ]

What I learned most from this game was just how many songs there are about Ronald Reagan. What's up with that?

Good game everyone, thanks for modding T3! I feel like I'm developing a town meta of immediately reading one scum at the start of the game then just tunneling them until the end.