Open 837: Cop Killer - Endgame

[LicketyQuickety]

A50 how does it feel to be unvotable today? What a treat it must be

You can get hecked for stealing the first pagetop

When I type in A50, my phone suggests that I type “A50 and then my autocorrect doesn’t have a problem with your attitude and barb is going to be a good person and barb and I’m not sure if I can have a problem with your phone”

Obvious scumclaim is obvious

Are you guys like... Seriously arguing about A50's alignment?

You're not, right?

The only sarcasm I understand is my own

Pav really is lacking spice in his posts. Played with them in a newbie a bit ago and their posts there were quite a bit better than here. These posts seem dry and unimaginitive. I also couldn't help but see a buddy attempt of the IC.

VOTE: Pav

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is being fined a grand total of $0.99 for being late to the party. Further delay may result in stripping him off his

clothes

title as moon & sea joiner.

I woke up at 2 PM, and it's 3:12 PM now. Don't ask. My sleep is a mess.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is being fined a grand total of $0.99 for being late to the party. Further delay may result in stripping him off his

clothes

title as moon & sea joiner.

VOTE: LQ

LOL

[LicketyQuickety]

Awkward post

Does that make it any more townie or scummy in your eyes? The implication would be that it's scummy, but here you then go voting a player that hasn't posted yet instead of a player attracting votes. Not a very satisfying reply

Yes, but how does that make you feel?

[LicketyQuickety]

OH! I've just realized my new title has been implemented. I don't know how long it's been there but I didn't see it until NOW!

Townie post

[LicketyQuickety]

Awkward post

Does that make it any more townie or scummy in your eyes? The implication would be that it's scummy, but here you then go voting a player that hasn't posted yet instead of a player attracting votes. Not a very satisfying reply

Because I only have one vote.

Makes me feel like Roden wanted to discredit my vote as non-confrontationally as possible

Ok, good to know we've never played before then.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

This is over aggro. Sort of feels fake.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

what do you remember from town!him?

I've got a decent amount of experience with town!LQ but not a lot that I can remember of scum!LQ

Empty threats. This is my Town game. I have no idea what T3 is talking about.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm generating suspicion on myself already. Off to a good start.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don’t like 146 from Roden.

“People” are not voting the IC. One person (me) is voting the IC. Conflating an issue bigger than it is under pressure is not a good look.

Thanks for completely missing the point of my post!

Why are you so defensive?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

Will you answer his question please? Can you?

See my last post.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don’t like 146 from Roden.

“People” are not voting the IC. One person (me) is voting the IC. Conflating an issue bigger than it is under pressure is not a good look.

Thanks for completely missing the point of my post!

Why are you so defensive?

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

In other words, because of pressure?

[LicketyQuickety]

At the very least I don’t think it’s scum theater. It’s too soon to say otherwise.

the thing that's difficult with multi ball is that scum can authentically scumhunt for the other faction, so even if people aren't S-S aligned, they could be S-S unaligned. Not that that's the case here cause I'm town, but it's going to be hard to make definitive T/S reads on D1

Oh. Hm. Obvious but i didn’t think of that.

Is it clear this is my first multi ball yet?

At the very least I don’t think they’re on the same team.

it's all good, I thiiiink that I think scum here is less likely to speculate about T/S in the way that you did so you get a pass into the D1 townclub, huzzah!

How are you honestly reading Roden? And why no vote there (IIRC).

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don’t like 146 from Roden.

“People” are not voting the IC. One person (me) is voting the IC. Conflating an issue bigger than it is under pressure is not a good look.

Thanks for completely missing the point of my post!

Why are you so defensive?

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

In other words, because of pressure?

Nope.

I mean, I kinda expect you to just own it if you are Town here. This is a weird look. You're clearly concerned about getting votes.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salsabil Faria
was buddying in the queue

Why did you unvote Enchant here, mc?

isn't that like... rvs and all?

I wanted to hear mc explain in their own words because every other post of theirs has been really over-explainy and I'm trying to get a sense of their personality

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

what do you remember from town!him?

I've got a decent amount of experience with town!LQ but not a lot that I can remember of scum!LQ

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

what do you remember from town!him?

I've got a decent amount of experience with town!LQ but not a lot that I can remember of scum!LQ

Empty threats. This is my Town game. I have no idea what T3 is talking about.

im pretty sure t3 is talking about guiltylion, seeing as that's who he quoted and that's where his vote is.

My name was named. So I'm assuming T3 was talking about me. I didn't really care at the time, but GL bringing it up again makes me think, "wait, what?"

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don’t like 146 from Roden.

“People” are not voting the IC. One person (me) is voting the IC. Conflating an issue bigger than it is under pressure is not a good look.

Thanks for completely missing the point of my post!

Why are you so defensive?

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

In other words, because of pressure?

Nope.

I mean, I kinda expect you to just own it if you are Town here. This is a weird look. You're clearly concerned about getting votes.

Is there any particular reason you're ignoring the reasons I gave

Not much to look into there. You're just saying, "I'm Town," in that post.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also I don’t like 146 from Roden.

“People” are not voting the IC. One person (me) is voting the IC. Conflating an issue bigger than it is under pressure is not a good look.

Thanks for completely missing the point of my post!

Why are you so defensive?

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

In other words, because of pressure?

Nope.

I mean, I kinda expect you to just own it if you are Town here. This is a weird look. You're clearly concerned about getting votes.

Is there any particular reason you're ignoring the reasons I gave

Not much to look into there. You're just saying, "I'm Town," in that post.

What does that have to do with anything?

You're annoyed you are getting voted because you are Town. That's what I'm getting from why you are so defensive. You say you're not being defensive but you express being annoyed based on being voted. Your explanation is that you are annoyed because your are Town, but I have no reason to just believe that you are Town because you say so.

[LicketyQuickety]

You're annoyed you are getting voted because you are Town. That's what I'm getting from why you are so defensive. You say you're not being defensive but you express being annoyed based on being voted. Your explanation is that you are annoyed because your are Town, but I have no reason to just believe that you are Town because you say so.

That...wasn't what I said at all.

I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

???

[LicketyQuickety]

You're annoyed you are getting voted because you are Town. That's what I'm getting from why you are so defensive. You say you're not being defensive but you express being annoyed based on being voted. Your explanation is that you are annoyed because your are Town, but I have no reason to just believe that you are Town because you say so.

That...wasn't what I said at all.

I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

???

What are you confused about?

Maybe rephrase what it is you said so I can see more clearly what you were trying to communicate?

[LicketyQuickety]

No one has called you toxic yet? I have no idea what that is about...

[LicketyQuickety]

Honestly LQ why are you scum reading me at all when you've recently seen two of my scum games in depth? You should know this isn't it from my opening posts alone.

How would you describe being different in those games?

[LicketyQuickety]

No one has called you toxic yet? I have no idea what that is about...

I didn't say anyone did?

Then IDK what your point is with that then.

[LicketyQuickety]

All this discussion because I misclicked the Q+ button huh

No it's because GL though my LQ vote was 4D chess.

It was clearly a joke vote. I even said "LOL" to it. But then GL starts poking at things and Roden all of a sudden starts mildly freaking out because they are getting pressured. The whole thing is just weird.

[LicketyQuickety]

Honestly LQ why are you scum reading me at all when you've recently seen two of my scum games in depth? You should know this isn't it from my opening posts alone.

How would you describe being different in those games?

Clearly not this because I didn't get wagon'd those games and had an informed perspective.

Well, this answer is exactly what I expect from Scum!Roden, so ???

[LicketyQuickety]

You're annoyed you are getting voted because you are Town. That's what I'm getting from why you are so defensive. You say you're not being defensive but you express being annoyed based on being voted. Your explanation is that you are annoyed because your are Town, but I have no reason to just believe that you are Town because you say so.

That...wasn't what I said at all.

I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

???

What are you confused about?

Maybe rephrase what it is you said so I can see more clearly what you were trying to communicate?

I don't know how else to phrase it.

Do you seriously not get my point?

No one has called you toxic yet? I have no idea what that is about...

I didn't say anyone did?

Then IDK what your point is with that then.

Am I being gaslight here

There's clearly a relevant part of that post that you keep ignoring

No one is gaslighting you.

What part is that?

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Yes, I'm trying to sort Roden.

[LicketyQuickety]

town lq
sorts people, actively scumhunts, makes walls
scum lq
just says his reads on people, one liners
VOTE: lq
thank you for coming to my ted talk

Since when have you seen me as Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

All this discussion because I misclicked the Q+ button huh

No it's because GL though my LQ vote was 4D chess.

It was clearly a joke vote. I even said "LOL" to it. But then GL starts poking at things and Roden all of a sudden starts mildly freaking out because they are getting pressured. The whole thing is just weird.

That's a gross misinterpretation of what happened.

Okay, then explain it to me like I'm 5.

Honestly LQ why are you scum reading me at all when you've recently seen two of my scum games in depth? You should know this isn't it from my opening posts alone.

How would you describe being different in those games?

Clearly not this because I didn't get wagon'd those games and had an informed perspective.

Well, this answer is exactly what I expect from Scum!Roden, so ???

You think I purposely put myself in this situation as scum???

I would not put it past you. You are quite Wiley as Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

The part you keep ignoring!!

Which is what? You're not helping yourself here. I sense some manipulative vibes from you here. Please just explain it so we can move on.

[LicketyQuickety]

All this discussion because I misclicked the Q+ button huh

No it's because GL though my LQ vote was 4D chess.

It was clearly a joke vote. I even said "LOL" to it. But then GL starts poking at things and Roden all of a sudden starts mildly freaking out because they are getting pressured. The whole thing is just weird.

That's a gross misinterpretation of what happened.

Okay, then explain it to me like I'm 5.

Honestly LQ why are you scum reading me at all when you've recently seen two of my scum games in depth? You should know this isn't it from my opening posts alone.

How would you describe being different in those games?

Clearly not this because I didn't get wagon'd those games and had an informed perspective.

Well, this answer is exactly what I expect from Scum!Roden, so ???

You think I purposely put myself in this situation as scum???

I would not put it past you. You are quite Wiley as Scum.

VOTE: LQ

I'm gonna have to draw the line at accusing me of purposely getting myself scum read to avoid getting scum read. That isn't a real thought process.

you said it, not me.

[LicketyQuickety]

This:

Not particularly.

Does not match this:

VOTE: LQ

I'm gonna have to draw the line at accusing me of purposely getting myself scum read to avoid getting scum read. That isn't a real thought process.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

I was wrong, it actually did help me sort LQ.

You are the one who said it. I didn't say it, I just said I wouldn't put it past you to do that because you ARE wiley as Scum. Like, you should fully understand how I am getting there, but you OMGUS me instead.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

Ah, I see, everyone else gets to say nonsense like this, but if I try to be casual and have fun then I'm just scum.

your reaction was OTT. Was it not? Am I just making that up? I don't think I am.

[LicketyQuickety]

The part you keep ignoring!!

Which is what? You're not helping yourself here. I sense some manipulative vibes from you here. Please just explain it so we can move on.

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

There's one part of this post that you've ignored to a cartoonish degree now.

I literally addressed exactly what you said there. This is Scum trying to play all sneaky like. IDK how to make sense of your play as Town here.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Roden, when I ask you to explain things and you completely dismiss me, and then YOU say you think I am saying you are doing it on purpose is just weird. Like, You've been really slimy here. When I ask you to explicitly explain things, you just don't. Then when you put words in my mouth and call me Scum for it, it just makes you look really really bad.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

I would have expected more frustration from Roden if they were Town here, FWIW. But they just go along with it and dismiss everything I'm saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

I was wrong, it actually did help me sort LQ.

You are the one who said it. I didn't say it, I just said I wouldn't put it past you to do that because you ARE wiley as Scum. Like, you should fully understand how I am getting there, but you OMGUS me instead.

Yeah you can stop, you did say it lol. I asked you the question and you answered it clearly.

I literally said I wouldn't put it past you. That doesn't mean that is what I was originally thinking. I was pressuring you and then YOU were the one who came up with that. It makes me feel like you were planning this out or something.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

Ah, I see, everyone else gets to say nonsense like this, but if I try to be casual and have fun then I'm just scum.

your reaction was OTT. Was it not? Am I just making that up? I don't think I am.

What makes it OTT?

Your emotion ladened words. The fact you said people think you are being toxic when no one said that, for example. There was some earlier stuff there too. Like how you got super smug with GL and then voted them in 128. I could probably find more examples even.

The part you keep ignoring!!

Which is what? You're not helping yourself here. I sense some manipulative vibes from you here. Please just explain it so we can move on.

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

There's one part of this post that you've ignored to a cartoonish degree now.

I literally addressed exactly what you said there. This is Scum trying to play all sneaky like. IDK how to make sense of your play as Town here.

Why won't you acknowledge the one part of the post that we both know you've been ignoring?

Because I literally have zero idea what I am ignoring. And I keep asking you to tell me and you just don't!

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

Full disclosure, I just wanted to win the argument with LQ because I thought he was just wrong. Now I'm just at a point where I think he's just arguing in bad faith and purposely trying to get a reaction out of me.

How am I arguing in bad faith? Like, what I am doing is what I do all the time. This accusation that I am somehow being disingenuous here is crazy.

[LicketyQuickety]

Roden is just using buzzwords at this point to make their points look stronger than they are.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

I would have expected more frustration from Roden if they were Town here, FWIW. But they just go along with it and dismiss everything I'm saying.

How could you possibly think I'm not frustrated, what the fuck

By your outright dismissal of what I am saying. Like dismissal isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think 'frustrated.'

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

I was wrong, it actually did help me sort LQ.

You are the one who said it. I didn't say it, I just said I wouldn't put it past you to do that because you ARE wiley as Scum. Like, you should fully understand how I am getting there, but you OMGUS me instead.

Yeah you can stop, you did say it lol. I asked you the question and you answered it clearly.

I literally said I wouldn't put it past you. That doesn't mean that is what I was originally thinking. I was pressuring you and then YOU were the one who came up with that. It makes me feel like you were planning this out or something.

How could I possibly plan this out??

IDK but I'm pretty sure Scum have a PT for things just like this.

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

Ah, I see, everyone else gets to say nonsense like this, but if I try to be casual and have fun then I'm just scum.

your reaction was OTT. Was it not? Am I just making that up? I don't think I am.

What makes it OTT?

Your emotion ladened words. The fact you said people think you are being toxic when no one said that, for example. There was some earlier stuff there too. Like how you got super smug with GL and then voted them in
128. I could probably find more examples even.

Emotion =/= OTT. I never said anyone in this game thought I was toxic. I definitely wasn't smug with GL lol.

You saying "lol" here tells me you are NOT frustrated.

The part you keep ignoring!!

Which is what? You're not helping yourself here. I sense some manipulative vibes from you here. Please just explain it so we can move on.

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

There's one part of this post that you've ignored to a cartoonish degree now.

I literally addressed exactly what you said there. This is Scum trying to play all sneaky like. IDK how to make sense of your play as Town here.

Why won't you acknowledge the one part of the post that we both know you've been ignoring?

Because I literally have zero idea what I am ignoring. And I keep asking you to tell me and you just don't!

Nah, you know what it is. I don't buy your fake ignorance.

No, I literally don't. IDEK what I am missing here. Please just explain it because it makes you look like an eel with not telling me.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

Full disclosure, I just wanted to win the argument with LQ because I thought he was just wrong. Now I'm just at a point where I think he's just arguing in bad faith and purposely trying to get a reaction out of me.

How am I arguing in bad faith? Like, what I am doing is what I do all the time. This accusation that I am somehow being disingenuous here is crazy.

This whole argument started because you kept shading me and refuse to acknowledge parts of my posts while repeating other parts out of context to accuse me of things I never said.

But you can't seriously think those were things I didn't actually take issue with. What is LQ like at the beginning of a game? I literally give reads. That's what I do. And then I usually reevaluate, but you're not giving me any reason to do that at this point.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

I would have expected more frustration from Roden if they were Town here, FWIW. But they just go along with it and dismiss everything I'm saying.

How could you possibly think I'm not frustrated, what the fuck

By your outright dismissal of what I am saying. Like dismissal isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think 'frustrated.'

Not only have I not been dismissal, that wouldn't mean I wasn't frustrated anyway.

In what world is dismissal in the same ballpark as frustration. Frustration is a form of anger and anger is an action emotion, not an inaction emotion.

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

I was wrong, it actually did help me sort LQ.

You are the one who said it. I didn't say it, I just said I wouldn't put it past you to do that because you ARE wiley as Scum. Like, you should fully understand how I am getting there, but you OMGUS me instead.

Yeah you can stop, you did say it lol. I asked you the question and you answered it clearly.

I literally said I wouldn't put it past you. That doesn't mean that is what I was originally thinking. I was pressuring you and then YOU were the one who came up with that. It makes me feel like you were planning this out or something.

How could I possibly plan this out??

IDK but I'm pretty sure Scum have a PT for things just like this.

What? What??? I have multiple votes on me! This doesn't even make sense!

More dismissing me. The argument is that YOU said you could be doing it on purpose FMPOV. That was what we were talking about. Now you want to pretend like that's not the argument we are talking about here.

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

Ah, I see, everyone else gets to say nonsense like this, but if I try to be casual and have fun then I'm just scum.

your reaction was OTT. Was it not? Am I just making that up? I don't think I am.

What makes it OTT?

Your emotion ladened words. The fact you said people think you are being toxic when no one said that, for example. There was some earlier stuff there too. Like how you got super smug with GL and then voted them in
128. I could probably find more examples even.

Emotion =/= OTT. I never said anyone in this game thought I was toxic. I definitely wasn't smug with GL lol.

You saying "lol" here tells me you are NOT frustrated.

You've got to be fucking with me at this point

How so?

The part you keep ignoring!!

Which is what? You're not helping yourself here. I sense some manipulative vibes from you here. Please just explain it so we can move on.

I'm not, I'm just annoyed that every time I try to have fun as town I get dog piled, and when I try hard as town I essentially get called toxic.

There's one part of this post that you've ignored to a cartoonish degree now.

I literally addressed exactly what you said there. This is Scum trying to play all sneaky like. IDK how to make sense of your play as Town here.

Why won't you acknowledge the one part of the post that we both know you've been ignoring?

Because I literally have zero idea what I am ignoring. And I keep asking you to tell me and you just don't!

Nah, you know what it is. I don't buy your fake ignorance.

No, I literally don't. IDEK what I am missing here. Please just explain it because it makes you look like an eel with not telling me.

Quote the post and delete what you haven't addressed.

No. You made the claim I was ignoring stuff, you back it up. The BoP is on YOU.

[LicketyQuickety]

lickety and roden, do either/both of you actually find this back-and-forth useful?

Not particularly.

i understand that youve since decided this take was incorrect, but rewinding back a bit -- why on earth would you participate in over a page of conversation that you didnt [at the time] believe was useful?

Full disclosure, I just wanted to win the argument with LQ because I thought he was just wrong. Now I'm just at a point where I think he's just arguing in bad faith and purposely trying to get a reaction out of me.

How am I arguing in bad faith? Like, what I am doing is what I do all the time. This accusation that I am somehow being disingenuous here is crazy.

This whole argument started because you kept shading me and refuse to acknowledge parts of my posts while repeating other parts out of context to accuse me of things I never said.

But you can't seriously think those were things I didn't actually take issue with. What is LQ like at the beginning of a game? I literally give reads. That's what I do. And then I usually reevaluate, but you're not giving me any reason to do that at this point.

What things...?

You being aggro, for one.

VOTE: Roden

Acting very sus to pressure.

Literally what does this even mean

That's for Town to know and you to find out.

This is what started it.

No, it started before that when I said you were being Aggro. And then GL gave a really favorable PoV for why you might do that, but he still DID think you were being Aggro IIRC.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not reading this argument and I don't think most people are going to read it either.

Votes have been made, so can we put a pin in this and let other people sort this out?

You should read it. It makes Roden look quite bad.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, Roden is switching their narrative left and right here. First they are smug, then annoyed, then frustrated, then they think I'm Scum. Now they are feigning confusion.

[LicketyQuickety]

Or rather, if you think Roden is caught scum, I don't think there's a reason to continue if there's no other engagement from any other slots especially after a few pages of back and forth.

I mean I could just be biased here but this is really not fun to read for me.

Spoiler:

[LicketyQuickety]

Whatever. I will chill then. But I'm probably not unvoting Roden any time soon.

[LicketyQuickety]

OH! I've just realized my new title has been implemented. I don't know how long it's been there but I didn't see it until NOW!

Townie post

How so?

It was a complete joke. A50 is the IC. It was a joke at Mafia sites that never explain their reasons for their reads.

This is over aggro. Sort of feels fake.

But you didn’t put your vote instantly here which I expect from town you (kind of ig) but instead you waited (for something?) and then vote later.

UNVOTE: DArby

VOTE: LQ

I do sometimes just poke things. And I am totally capable of pushing multiple things at the same time. You really should know this about me based on our only game together. If it's not clear from that, then you just haven't played with me enough.

[LicketyQuickety]

salsabil, how is lq's lack of vote in #130 different from auro's lack of vote in #72 (which you quoted!), or t3's lack of vote in #145?

Pretty sure it's a meta read of the Titus flavor on me. But that kind of read is outdated. Seen Here (Post 59). I was Stuart in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hello hello old friends and new

VOTE: Roden

Didn't like his first post, I think using a past game to justify RVS vote is inherently a lil awkward

Also I like Galron for town

The structure of this first post: [vote, justification, townread] comes off as scummy to me

Weird take, but I can kinda see it.

Usually it goes:TR>Justification>Vote

Kinda weak, but eh, not bad to point out.

This in no way means I'm TRing Auro at this point. Because I expect Auro to make plays like this as Scum as well.

[LicketyQuickety]

It's RVS, nothing I say right now has any actual meaning beyond seeing reactions

Nah, you and GL have moved right on out of RVS with this little kerfuffle

Do you read it as TvS?

*clears throat*

Probably too early to tell. Just a back and forth for a few posts doesn't really say much.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hey hey hey, I'm liking DArby for town.

I think I'm inclined to agree with this.

That's 2 posts now that I have liked of Auro. Keep it up and you might make it a TR.

[LicketyQuickety]

I do sometimes just poke things. And I am totally capable of pushing multiple things at the same time. You really should know this about me based on our only game together. If it's not clear from that, then you just haven't played with me enough.

@Salsabil: would you be able to quote instances from the game you played with LicketyQuickety from which you formed your expectation that they are aggressive with votes in that manner?

I don't even always vote my main driving suspicion sometimes so I have no idea what Salsa is even talking about. There was this read from (I think) Titus where I always lead off with an accusation (or something like that) but pretty sure that's been debunked in a few games already.

Salsa is free to explain what they are thinking but I think it's just a bad meta read.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, This is the only game I have played with Salsa (IIRC) and I didn't even throw down a vote until my 14th post.

I have no idea what Salsa is even doing with their read on me tbh. I literally made This read and Salsa thinks my vote on Pav is out of place. What are they even seeing?

[LicketyQuickety]

town lq
sorts people, actively scumhunts, makes walls
scum lq
just says his reads on people, one liners
VOTE: lq
thank you for coming to my ted talk

Another read on me that is very ???

Q: Am I incapable of making walls as Scum?
A: No, not at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

This game I played with T3 and there's plenty of walls in my play there. I was Limmed D1 there so my play wasn't stellar, but it's another read that has me shaking my head going, "What? Do people even know how I play or what?"

[LicketyQuickety]

This game I played with T3 and there's plenty of walls in my play there. I was Limmed D1 there so my play wasn't stellar, but it's another read that has me shaking my head going, "What? Do people even know how I play or what?"

Okay, admittedly my brevity increased after I started getting heat, but before that I had words to say.

Now IDK what to think. Maybe T3 is just focussing on how I was reacting to pressure or something like that. I can see it from that angle cuz it does seem legit in that world (from that game) but there have been other games (I think) where I have been very wordy as Scum. Maybe I'm thinking better of my Scum game than reflects reality.

Anyways.

[LicketyQuickety]

Count me among the ones glazing over at LQ/Roden right now. This is the point where if one of you *has* caught scum, you are decreasing the likelihood that any of us will join you on it.

In other news, I thought reading up this morning would take a while, but the skipping made it blessedly quick

What are your thoughts on Salsa?

[LicketyQuickety]

Going on 54 years now, we’re doubtful it’ll ever happen.

there you go.. and we're not even mid-way past D1.

A50 probably going to be more important than me in this game. Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

Like, is Roden actually pulling the wool over my eyes as Town here? I sorta think not, but then again, I do kinda suck at this game, so... I don't want to finish this sentence.

[LicketyQuickety]

my one main salient takeaway from the LQ/Roden bit is that both are making dubious claims on one particular front

Roden in 205 asks LQ if LQ thinks Roden "purposefully puts himself in this situation as scum". Again I think Roden is questionably taking credit for something that I feel I'm responsible for (early wagon/pressure on Roden). The logic of "why would I get wagoned as scum" isn't easy to understand from either a town/scum perspective, it's not clear what Roden specifically thinks that he did to get himself wagoned and whether that was intentional. However I have seen both alignments make the "I wouldn't be wagoned if I were scum here" claim, it's not something I feel comfortable reasoning about as AI but I certainly don't townread it, at best it's WIFOMy.

However, Roden has a point in 209 that LQ agreeing that scum!Roden might indeed intentionally "put himself in this situation" is also a bad take. Scum do not love early scrutiny, in almost any circumstance. I don't see LQ's logic in implying that this COULD be a scum plan - again, how and where did Roden even intentionally invite pressure on himself? Whatever Roden's alignment is, I'm sure he'd rather not be voted and rather not have to argue with people voting him.

I can see what LQ is saying in that LQ just kinda went along with an idea (being intentionally wagoned) that Roden put out there, but it's just such bad reasoning on both sides ("if I were scum, I wouldn't be wagoned") ("no, if you were scum, this might be your plan!!") that I'm having a hard time parsing why either player is taking any of the logic seriously.

I'll just say a tiny little bit about this, but I don't want to hammer on it.

The wagons at SoD 1 almost never last the whole phase. It one of the problems with 10 day Day Phases. You can catch Scum pretty badly, but the wagon usually just doesn't hold regardless of the evidence.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can summarize my read on Roden fairly easily. It basically goes like this:

1. Roden still hasn't explained what it is I am being ignorant about. (This strikes me as the stronger reason between the two since them not answering just introduces unnecessary WIFOM to read Roden which is Scummy.)
   
2. Whether Roden was actually frustrated or not. (if Roden WASN'T actually frustrated, but was just acting, then that points to them being Town, but not a guarantee since Scum can get frustrated too. Just that Town usually get more frustrated than Scum when I pressure.)

[LicketyQuickety]

I can summarize my read on Roden fairly easily. It basically goes like this:

1. Roden still hasn't explained what it is I am being ignorant about. (This strikes me as the stronger reason between the two since them not answering just introduces unnecessary WIFOM to read Roden which is Scummy.)
   
2. Whether Roden was actually frustrated or not. (if Roden WASN'T actually frustrated, but was just acting, then that points to them being Scum, but not a guarantee since Scum can get frustrated too. Just that Town usually get more frustrated than Scum when I pressure.)

Points to them being Scum

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

Bingle I'm leaning Town on because they seem extremely relaxed itt.

[LicketyQuickety]

Oh, also, is it too early to say DArby is thread spewed Town at this point? Because pretty sure no one has said DArby is anything below Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

I low key want to SR Salsa for their meta read on me. The fact they backtracked so soon is also weird - not Scummy in itself, just really weird. Like why make that read in the first place? They say that they were misremembering, but then how did they generate their SR on me in the first place? Is it even possible to make such an inaccurate meta read? Because I kinda think, no, it isn't.

[LicketyQuickety]

Where is the GL townfire?

Honestly, from what I know of GL (I have some experience with them from a while back) this seems to be right in line with their Town game. Not seeing anything Sus from GL at this point. He's given his takes in true GL fashion. I buy what he was saying about Roden v me and I read that as authentic. The only thing that kinda pings me about GL at this point is then being overly favorable to Roden, but at the same time I can kinda see that from Town!GL as well so, yeah.

[LicketyQuickety]

My top 3 Town:
DArby
GL
Auro (I guess but I'd say I'm tied between Auro and Bingle really)

[LicketyQuickety]

Once submitted you cannot alter your choices.

Oh, didn't read this bit. Oops.

[LicketyQuickety]

Enchant also hasn't been doing anything, so some town points. I think scum Enchant would be more proactive.

Weird read, but I can kinda see it since that Enchant was Town in this other game we played that just ended.

[LicketyQuickety]

I probably won't be unvoting Roden until they come in and ObvTown, but I feel like they are waiting for Suspicion on them to drop before returning.

Else, I can see myself voting Salsa here. Salsa has the same sort of weirdness I saw from them when they were Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

nvm he has an even more barren ISO in Open 828 (scum game) viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87729&user_select[]=35064

I guess enchant gets no soup then.

[LicketyQuickety]

why do you think roden was feigning frustration? im pretty sure that everyone in the thread has come to much the same conclusion, that the posts youre referring to are essentially unreadable -- can you point to anything specific in them, any set of general features, idk, that pinged as "this isnt real"? i know you made a post singling out his reply to "is this back-and-forth actually useful", but that's not all there is to it, right?

also, you seem pretty sure in your read again -- contrast #189 or whichever post it is i referenced earlier, where you seemed to be seriously doubting the read. what happened between then and then and now, what's the thought process that led to tunelling then doubting then a strong read?

I tried to explain that Roden's emotions can be seen as fake based on things like posting "lol" when that's not what comes to mind when someone is frustrated. Also, I said that their dismissing me (which was based on a lot of what I thought Roden was doing) was based on them not explaining what I was ignoring. I don't think frustrated Town has a reason to not explain themselves. I tend to view frustrated Town as wanting to have the person SRing them reevaluate them. That's what makes sense to me.

But at this point my SR on Roden grew stronger when they ditched the thread which I am reading as them doing so so that the votes start to fall off them. I have rarely seen Town do that. Town, if anything, push in a different direction rather than outright just Noping Out of the thread. I was expecting to see some posts from Roden when I got back to the thread (since I wake up so late) but Roden has yet to post since our spat.

[LicketyQuickety]

But at this point my SR on Roden grew stronger when they ditched the thread which I am reading as them doing so so that the votes start to fall off them

but roden had abandoned the thread over ~32 hours before i unvoted him -- and that's just one vote, as far as i can tell from isos, everyone else's vote is still there. and im still not sure i understand where the moment of doubt came from, i read it as a sincere moment of town self-reflection at the time, but im struggling to square that with these subsequent posts.

I guess I just am waiting to see what Roden does at this point. But when it was pointed out how unlikely it was for Roden to draw Suspicion, I had a moment of doubt. I think I posted my doubt before GL said what they said, but then after that I was thinking, "Hmm, maybe I'm wrong." IDK, I tend to change my mind a lot. But after thinking about the argument between Roden and myself and sleeping over it, I still think Roden looks bad from that back and forth. That's when I made my summery on my SR of Roden. Then that's combined with Roden not entering the thread since then. So I just want to see what Roden does at this point. In my summary, I was trying to be balanced and not have it be completely biased. So that my summary shouldn't be taken as a "Roden is Lock Scum" post but more of a, "I slept on it, and here's where I think my case is valid" type thing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, if Roden is actually Scum here, I totally expect them to keep their vote on me. I think if they are Town they will reevaluate.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not doing that.

My guess is that A50 has something to cook up for us if we do it. You not playing along is obstinate and not a reason to TR you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ah, that.

My takeaway is that LQ is very likely town, although I don't recall experiencing his scum game - so I'll have to skim through some.

Although this is a light game, I'm quite proud of it.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26012

[LicketyQuickety]

instantly eliminate.

Did anyone else see this and sort of chuckle to themselves?

[LicketyQuickety]

This is the perfect example of the kind of weird I expect from Scum!Salsa.

For example, Salsa voted someone multiple times without actually voting someone else in the game I played with them where they were Scum. So this sort of counting posts to get to page top is right in line with the same kind of weirdness IMO.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not really TRing Pav at this point and I don't get the TRs on them, so someone please explain.

[LicketyQuickety]

A NK'd GL would be another story.

What do you mean by that?

I mean that limming town!GL with Bingles points in mind would be scum indicative on Bingle, but if GL were NK'd I wouldn't assume Bingle was behind it.

IMO, these kinds of reads (TvS) only work if both parties are acting like they

know

the other is Scum.

And didn't someone say we are not doing that in this game? Can't remember who said it. Might have been A50 or Bingle can't remember.

But anyways, I've recently had these reads go wrong and so am kinda apprehensive to give them much weight.

[LicketyQuickety]

If I don’t understand something, I'll ask.

sure, but it feels like you're trying to drag Pav into a debate about claims that he didn't make or arguments that aren't important. From my impression of his original 440, all Pav was saying was that if he were to

know

that I am town, he would then think that Bingle's shade on me might indicate Bingle scum. However, as soon as you say something like that it can poison the well for NKA (a non-Bingle scum team might shoot me in an attempt to make Bingle look bad), so he wanted to clarify that he doesn't also think me being NK'd would

further

make him suspect Bingle. This is also basically exactly what he then clarified in 457 and 462.

You're trying now to get him to talk about what he thinks scum!Bingle would or wouldn't do, which I don't see as all that meaningful or useful. No one has been killed yet, it doesn't develop nor change my understanding of his original posts, and it isn't something that Pav would have different reasoning about whether he's town or scum. Hence, I don't understand how the line of questioning actually helps you sort Pav, it feels like busywork at best and at worst potentially trying to stir up "issues" with Pav that you can then use to push him.

GL, what is your read on Salsa atp? Because I sorta feel like you have been a bit too forgiving to people in the game so far. Not like that's inherently Scummy (unless you're doing it for Town cred), but it's a weird angle. Someone said they weren't seeing the fire from your posts. I'll admit I haven't actually seen that type of thing from you personally (overt aggression), but someone (I think Bingle) said they didn't get why you weren't being as aggressive so I feel like there's something based on that read that IDK of your play.

Are you ever aggressive in games? And if not, why are you not SRing the person who said this?

[LicketyQuickety]

Salsa always seems to have a bit of chaotic energy that I find hard to read, but I was pinging after the whole "I want to vote roden but not sure I should" thing, which is scum thinking though I don't know why it was verbalized

Why is it scum thinking - why can't town be unsure? Is there a hidden reason scum would be unsure? Is there fault with her reasoning for not being sure?

Of course town can be unsure. Town *should* be unsure.

What's scum thinking is "I've decided I want to vote this person but I'm not going to" because...? Like imo town just votes there whereas scum is a lot more concerned about how their vote "looks".

You said

Roden

wasn't verge of the elimination but they're at E-3 that time and we have 4 scums.

I wouldn't consider e-3 the verge of elimination, and if scum is willing to give the game away and quick hammer from that far out, I'd say that's worth letting somebody get quick limmed.

Townslip? Eh, either way it’s towny.

Core of my pav read, LQ.

Which part?

[LicketyQuickety]

GL, what is your read on Salsa atp?

I think Salsas been real scummy and I have no issues with the wagon. I mainly haven't moved my vote because I didn't want to defuse my pressure on Roden, but seems like I scared him away from the game lol

I don't think I've been too forgiving? Who have I mistakenly forgiven in your eyes?

Are you planning on killing your SRs with kindness or something? You're SRing both Roden and Salsa and seem to be very gentle with both of them.

That's why I asked if you ever are aggressive as Town. Which you didn't answer. And why are you not SRing someone who is giving a bogus meta read on you if you're not aggressive as Town?

P-Edit. Okay, so then my question still stands in why you are just acting flowery with your SRs. Does not make sense. Are these just tentative SRs or what?

[LicketyQuickety]

P-Edit. Okay, so then my question still stands in why you are just acting flowery with your SRs. Does not make sense. Are these just tentative SRs or what?

I don't think I've been especially flowery? Like where do you see me doing that, specifically? I went in hard on Roden, he bailed, and Salsa has had enough attention that I haven't needed to push it myself. I'm satisfied with the gamestate currently, I don't need to do anything at the moment other than poke at peripheral slots like Auro

These posts right here:

This is over aggro. Sort of feels fake.

being fair to Roden, I basically challenged him in my last post to go at me, so I'm not surprised to see him bite back. What I'd like to actually hear from him though is why he thinks my behavior is more likely to come from me as scum than me as town, because that's what's missing

If I don’t understand something, I'll ask.

sure, but it feels like you're trying to drag Pav into a debate about claims that he didn't make or arguments that aren't important. From my impression of his original 440, all Pav was saying was that if he were to

know

that I am town, he would then think that Bingle's shade on me might indicate Bingle scum. However, as soon as you say something like that it can poison the well for NKA (a non-Bingle scum team might shoot me in an attempt to make Bingle look bad), so he wanted to clarify that he doesn't also think me being NK'd would

further

make him suspect Bingle. This is also basically exactly what he then clarified in 457 and 462.

You're trying now to get him to talk about what he thinks scum!Bingle would or wouldn't do, which I don't see as all that meaningful or useful. No one has been killed yet, it doesn't develop nor change my understanding of his original posts, and it isn't something that Pav would have different reasoning about whether he's town or scum. Hence, I don't understand how the line of questioning actually helps you sort Pav, it feels like busywork at best and at worst potentially trying to stir up "issues" with Pav that you can then use to push him.

In the first, you are giving Roden a pass. In the second, you are basically treating Salsa with kid gloves.

[LicketyQuickety]

I disagree with your assessment of both those posts, but I appreciate you referencing them. The first one in particular is definitely not a pass, I'm explicitly challenging him to explain why he thinks my play comes from me as scum

Why do I feel like you are explaining yourself thoroughly to your SRs but not to me?

[LicketyQuickety]

Gut read there’s one scum between these two.

I’d be inclined to say it’s LQ.

What is this based on? Why do you think there is one Scum between us?

P-Edit. Okay, so then my question still stands in why you are just acting flowery with your SRs. Does not make sense. Are these just tentative SRs or what?

I don't think I've been especially flowery? Like where do you see me doing that, specifically? I went in hard on Roden, he bailed, and Salsa has had enough attention that I haven't needed to push it myself. I'm satisfied with the gamestate currently, I don't need to do anything at the moment other than poke at peripheral slots like Auro

These posts right here:

Like unless LQ is going off of meta (which would change the vibes),

Honestly, I'm just pushing things and seeing what comes out. My understanding of GL is that he's usually not very aggressive, but what throws a monkey wrench into the mix is that GL says he does get aggressive with his SRs if he's sure about them and GL isn't saying how serious his SRs are on Salsa/Roden.

wasn’t this along the same vein of your tring me in our last completed game together? @LQ

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

[LicketyQuickety]

Gut read there’s one scum between these two.

I’d be inclined to say it’s LQ.

What is this based on? Why do you think there is one Scum between us?

Like unless LQ is going off of meta (which would change the vibes),

Honestly, I'm just pushing things and seeing what comes out. My understanding of GL is that he's usually not very aggressive, but what throws a monkey wrench into the mix is that GL says he does get aggressive with his SRs if he's sure about them and GL isn't saying how serious his SRs are on Salsa/Roden.

wasn’t this along the same vein of your tring me in our last completed game together? @LQ

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm back to TRing GL.

I think the talk about Scum signaling to each other is over my head, but on play, I'm reading GL as Town here since it's in line with what I know of them as Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

it felt like you were townreading me with my interactions with Pan/Koba where I had a similar vibe to what I'm getting from GL, who you were scumreading.

Uh, no? Not at all. No idea how you drew that conclusion.

My standard way of reading people is based on play. I don't do a lot of tone reads or RT or anything like that (with an exception here and there). Mostly I try and look at people's reasoning and try and tell if it comes from Town or Scum. I have some experimental read type stuff (like the TvS read from last game [that was wrong]) but I generally just play it straight.

[LicketyQuickety]

Spoiler:

VC 1.09

Galron (0)-

Enchant (1)-

Auro

Pavowski (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Roden (3)-

GuiltyLion, LicketyQuickety, Auro

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (1)-

Salsabil Faria

GuiltyLion (0)-

Salsabil Faria (7)-

T3, mc esther, Pavowski, Almost50, Galron, Roden, DArby

-ELIMINATED

DArby (0)-

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Galron

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-07 10:00:00)

- Dec 7th 10:00 GMT

VC 1.07

Galron (0)-

Enchant (1)-

Salsabil Faria

Pavowski (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Roden (4)-

GuiltyLion, LicketyQuickety, DArby, Auro

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (1)-

Roden

GuiltyLion (0)-

Salsabil Faria (5)-

T3, mc esther, Pavowski, Bingle, Almost50,

DArby (1)-

Enchant

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Galron,

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-07 10:00:00)

- Dec 7th 10:00 GMT

VC 1.08

Galron (0)-

Enchant (0)-

Pavowski (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Roden (3)-

GuiltyLion, LicketyQuickety, Auro

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (3)-

Roden, Salsabil Faria, DArby

GuiltyLion (0)-

Salsabil Faria (5)-

T3, mc esther, Pavowski, Almost50, Galron

(E-2)

DArby (1)-

Enchant

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Galron

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-07 10:00:00)

- Dec 7th 10:00 GMT

Roden salsa TvT makes me feel better about Darby. No reason for scum to lend weight to a new wagon when there’s dueling wagons on not your team.

Was anyone cheerleading the roden salsa fight?

We were fighting? I dipped from the game for a couple days, came back, saw Salsa was a leading wagon and voted her just to see what would happen. I think I only interacted with her once before that, way back during RVS. We had competing wagons technically but that was purely from outside influences.

Also what so you mean about Darby "lending weight" to a new wagon? He quick hammered Salsa. Since I'm now conftown, don't you think it's possible that he's scum who thought he could get me mis-elim'd if Salsa flipped town and gain town credit if she flipped scum? And what makes you certain none of the competing wagons were on his team? LQ's alignment isn't confirmed and I'm still certain he's scum.

Also I kinda feel bad that I'm the only conftown now even though I've been absent for most of the game. I was hoping A50 would target someone who was leading the discussion so town could know whether or not they could be trusted. I'll start rereading the thread but probably skip most of my argument with LQ since I'm confident he's just scum at this point, unless every single leading wagon was on town and he actually did just majorly misread me.

VOTE: LQ

Btw GL, now you know my RVS vote really was just RVS. It really shouldn't have taken a Cop check to figure that out, here we are I guess.

Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't think LQ having weird takes is particularly scummy.

Can confirm.

[LicketyQuickety]

Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?

635

Oh, I missed that.

Okay, so Roden, why am I Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

Also basically every time I’ve seen town salsa run up she’s either self hammered or replaced out.

The one game I was Town against Salsa, they did replace out.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town:
Roden
mc esther - Townie sounding points.
Guilty Lion - Not seeing GL as Scum here. Their push on Roden looks bad in retrospect, but I'm guilty of the same thing.

Town Lean:
Bingle - Good thoughts, feel like he's actually trying to sort me.
DArby - Probably Town, but there was something that was bugging me about them near EoD. Would have to look and try and figure it out. Town Lean.

Null:
Enchant - IDK, higher activity? That's probably NAI
Pavowski - Null. Why are People TRing Pav? Is it based on pre-flip or what?
Auro - Having doubts here since I'm probably TRing Bingle and GL more at this point.
T3 - Don't really feel anything here.

Scum Lean:
Galron - I guess I have to have a Scum Lean somewhere. And I didn't really like that the were stiff at the SoD 1. Someone else made that comment and I went back to look and I can definitely see it. Their reaction to it was bad too.

VOTE: Galron

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ's reads list this page is surprisingly shallow.

While I would probably agree with this, I'm multi-tabling and this isn't my highest priority game atm.

[LicketyQuickety]

Galron - I guess I have to have a Scum Lean somewhere. And I didn't really like that the were stiff at the SoD 1. Someone else made that comment and I went back to look and I can definitely see it. Their reaction to it was bad too.

Can you point me to what you're talking about?

Here:

VOTE: Galron

Do I detect a certain stiffness and disinterest?

Disinterest sure. Dunno about stiffness. Explain that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also that you started off serious then went to joking. That felt unnatural to me.

[LicketyQuickety]

What are you trying to achieve

Miselimination... duuh!

lol

VOTE: Salsa

This also sorta feels like Darby is trying to ride out their Town cred knowing they won't get any Sus from the hammer. Like, when someone claims their about to be mislimmed and your reaction to that is to LOL!hammer them it kinda leave a lot of WIFOM in the air.

[LicketyQuickety]

Their push on Roden looks bad in retrospect

Why?

What about it makes it bad instead of just wrong?

Seemed like the justification for the original vote was very thin but GL never votes anyone else.

[LicketyQuickety]

Auro - Having doubts here since I'm probably TRing Bingle and GL more at this point.

Why does TRing Bingle mean doubt over my alignment?

It doesn't necessarily, but I can't help but feel like there is some sort of triangle between you Bingle, and GL. And I guess I just think the idea that you are all Town isn't super strong.

[LicketyQuickety]

B) The post wasn’t in and of itself why I hammered.

Why did you hammer then?

[LicketyQuickety]

Did you figure out what the deal was with DArby? You went back and looked at my stuff (or remembered it?) and forced a scum lean out of it?

No, not yet.

I'm townreading Pav based on the signalling discussion yesterday and the early discussion about one kill today. What do you think of that stuff from Pav?

I never really understood the signaling thing. IDK, I don't think Pav talking about the kill is really Scummy myself. Pav is just Null to me since I don't really get much AI stuff from his posts.

With Enchant you have higher activity and then say that may be NAI. If it is AI, where does that place Enchant?

IDK which is why it's NAI.

What do you think of all of T3's reads being meta reads?

It's nothing I haven't seen from T3 before. IDK, maybe he does it more as Town? Not sure really. That's not the reason I'm Null reading him though. It has more to do with his post just seemingly not leading anywhere.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also that you started off serious then went to joking. That felt unnatural to me.

Why does that feel scummy to you? My impression is usually the opposite, that scum feel more comfortable joking earlygame and don't want to come across too tryhard at gamestart. I certainly pick up suspicion for being Too Serious in earlygame across a lot of my games. Also, where specifically do you think Galron is joking in an unnatural way?

Do you want me to pull quotes?

[LicketyQuickety]

Actually, there's no harm in outing how I'm going to get it, so I can do that.

There is no kill flavor in the Role PMs provided on page 1. (I know, I checked a while back.) I just asked NM if he put kill flavor in the maf pts (open, so general formatting of PTs should be public information). If yes, then I think that's scum indicative for GL. If no, I think that's fairly clearing for GL.

What if both Ice and Fire shot A50? I know this probably isn't a good question to ask, but I can't help thinking this is at least possible.

Also, someone explain why Roden is confirmed Town because I'm not getting that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not really feeling T3 at this point. Their "effort" is kinda lacking?

Consider my vote spiritually on T3 at this point since no one else seems interested in Galron.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why spiritually
There's no lolhammerers around

Because I kinda want to hammer him, iunno.

[LicketyQuickety]

Am I the only one who thinks it's mildly not smart that Doc wasn't on A50?

[LicketyQuickety]

Not really feeling T3 at this point. Their "effort" is kinda lacking?

Consider my vote spiritually on T3 at this point since no one else seems interested in Galron.

Okay. VOTE: Galron

People sheeping me is usually an indicator that person is Scum, so I'd like you to provide reasoning for your vote.

[LicketyQuickety]

Am I the only one who thinks it's mildly not smart that Doc wasn't on A50?

Remember when we decided not to talk about the NK after my BS?

That was a good idea

Oh, my mistake.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not really feeling T3 at this point. Their "effort" is kinda lacking?

Consider my vote spiritually on T3 at this point since no one else seems interested in Galron.

Okay. VOTE: Galron

You know there is surprisingly little in your ISO about Galron. Really want to know if your vote was a RT or something because this vote seems exceptionally out of place.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is bizarre behavior

All you have to know is that Town don't sheep me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Sure. I think there's scum in the wagon on T3 and I'm pressing a different button to see what effect it has.

Why do you think there is Scum on the T3 wagon?

Why were you trying to cast an E-1 vote on a wagon you were already on?[/quote]

I don't think I've actually voted for T3 yet?

[LicketyQuickety]

Sure. I think there's scum in the wagon on T3 and I'm pressing a different button to see what effect it has.

Why do you think there is Scum on the T3 wagon?

Why were you trying to cast an E-1 vote on a wagon you were already on?

I don't think I've actually voted for T3 yet?

EBWOP

[LicketyQuickety]

You not already being on the T3 wagon is a disappointment, tbh.

I was wondering specifically whether you would hop right back on Galron if someone else joined or if you'd stay with the wagon with more steam.

LOL, even Bingle can derp.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm going to try and play this game more seriously D3.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is bizarre behavior

Someone did say LQ can have some crazy takes even as town. That being said, my earlier inclination that he's not a good lim today has eroded significantly due to his play so far today. And this is not OMGUS-driven. I did't really care that he voted me, but his reasons for voting me and his reads list, along with follow-up explanations, are really bad.

Why are they "really bad"? Because they are not complex reads? Reads don't have to be complex to be right.

[LicketyQuickety]

Forgive me if I don't sheep you on this one.

My heart, she breaks.

This sort of reads like SvS behavior, but I'm not doing that this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is bizarre behavior

Someone did say LQ can have some crazy takes even as town. That being said, my earlier inclination that he's not a good lim today has eroded significantly due to his play so far today. And this is not OMGUS-driven. I did't really care that he voted me, but his reasons for voting me and his reads list, along with follow-up explanations, are really bad.

Why are they "really bad"? Because they are not complex reads? Reads don't have to be complex to be right.

I'm not going to go point-by-point, but they're completely generic. While reads don't need to be complex the type of list you were trying to make should contain at least some level of at least low-level thought.

Oh, gee, thanks. But that makes me Scum or what?

[LicketyQuickety]

yeah i do think lickety is just trying to pick random fights as in day 1. i kinda saw shades of this with the random bingle vote too.

What reason do I have to "pick random fights" rather than voting who I think is Scum in Multi-ball? Like this isn't a well-thought-through perspective on what I am doing. If your reason was, "LQ has been underwhelming and I think he's just looking to get TR" then that would be one thing, but that perspective lacks that I could just be Scum actually feeling like I'm making a legit push on Scum. But that's not what you are saying. Your argument is that I'm looking for Townie points exclusively. It makes it seem like you don't actually believe what you are saying because you don't take into account that my push could be authentic. If my push IS authentic, then that could mean I'm Town, but you completely dodge that reasoning for some reasoning.

[LicketyQuickety]

there's a difference between "aggressively interrogating random players hoping they crack" and "starting random fights". im pretty sure we discussed the scum benefits of fights (as opposed to arguments, which generate information) pretty extensively d1.

galron explained, imo relatively clearly, what they didnt like about your reads' list, and why they felt these flaws could be alignment-indicative (and, eh, i dont quite agree with him on that point -- i could level the same criticism at pav's reads lists, but pav is imo clearly town, despite some of the people who townread him d1 now doubting that). sarcastically throwing the question back at him, "that makes me scum or what", isnt encouraging discussion, it's an attempt at repeating d1 long after youve been informed that nobody really appreciated or benefitted from that play (and after it's become apparent that this play did not help build reads!)

No, me telling Galron that is just me saying his reasons are just as weak as mine.

[LicketyQuickety]

Could LQ be playing in this bizarre fashion to avoid being widely townread and thus perhaps killed by the opposing faction?

:think:

LOL.

[LicketyQuickety]

LOL, even Bingle can derp.

Well, yeah. But in this case I was just trusting the VC to be accurate.

T3 (4)- Bingle, Galron, LicketyQuickety, Auro (E-2)

^T3 Wagon

VOTE: T3

What does pressing this button do?

^ Reason for T3 Wagon

FWIW, I've seen Bingle do this sort of thing as Jester. IDK if/how that correlates to them being Scum here unless he's looking to clear himself by pointing out other people derping in 5D 4D worlds and then they do it to soft clear themselves.

IDK that's what I got on Bingle. It's probably bad, because I'm bad at this game, but it is what it is.

IF I live to D3 then I'll probably do work during Night Phase, but I'm not about to put in a bunch of work just to get Limmed here D2. Roden seems to be SRing me for things that are NAI, but they are confirmed Town so their vote pulls more weight then it probably should.

I'll put some effort into this game tomorrow. Probably do some ISOs of my Nulls or something.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

LQ:

*Tries to start a Galron wagon*

*complains nobody wants to vote Galron*

*scumreads Bingle for jumping on the Galron wagon*

*votes Bingle*

This is bizarre behavior

I kind of get his reasoning.

I mean I *get* his reasoning too, but that doesn't mean it's good reasoning

Do you think Bingle is scum for jumping in there with a Galron vote?

This is so strange to me. Like I normally SR people for "bad reasoning" but I go elsewhere to play Mafia and the general idea is that Town are more likely to not make sense. Yes, I realize that puts me precariously between worlds, but it is what it is.

[LicketyQuickety]

I got distracted with Skyrim. That's why I left.

But here the draft I had saved before that:

Enchant ISO: I don't understand some of what Enchant is doing and there's a good deal of WIFOM in the mix. The rest of the posts seem fine. Definitely don't like the WIFOM. Null

Spoiler:

410 IDK what this means.
412 Continues after this to be somewhat active.
456 is weird combined with 460. Auro is basically saying "Aha, you're signaling. No, wait, you're not, NVM, but it's still bad!" Which I don't get. Enchant picking up Auro was doing things okieday, but Auro says no. Very weird.
480 Not thinking about A50 being targeted is weird.
485 I guess this is where signal talk comes in. Sorta feel like Enchant is playing dumb here since they understood what Auro was doing.
596 Seems to be introducing WIFOM in the game (intentionally?).
609 Sending intentionally confusing messages? The progression on Salsa is pretty abrupt.
658 ?
664 Mildly frustrating because I have no idea what you are saying.
And then pressures me some.

T3 ISO: Not really liking what I am seeing but am mildly surprised they turned their opinion of me. Scum Lean

Spoiler:

116 Pressure on GL? Not really a fan of this.
117 Felt like T3 was responding to something GL said to them, but GL was talking to someone else. So this is actually pressuring GL here.
145 IDK where this is coming from.
201 I respond in 259 and 260 which T3 replies "i don't know what i'm doing" But doesn't change their vote until 327 when they vote Salsa. They seem to not really care who dies.
332 Pointless post.
336 Ugh, this is a bad post. I can't believe T3 forgot who they were voting in 5 posts. Is this just a really bad RT (if so ew), or just a Scum claim? IDEK.
399 Finally says their meta on me might be wrong. What I don't get is why T3 never votes for Roden, but is completely fine voting Salsa.
400 I kinda like this take on Enchant being more engaged as Scum, but Enchant DOES seem more engaged this game?
406 is retracting the read (but still SRing Enchant for not being present? Weird flex, might be unintentional.
430 How could you miss Roden was a wagon?
568 Looks bad in retrospect.
730 I don't know why that clears Pav, because I don't think it does. Bad take.
773 At least T3 understands me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'd like to see T3's response to LQ's thoughts on his ISO

my thoughts can be summed up in 2 words: VOTE: lq

Cute. Am I just Scum on meta or what?

[LicketyQuickety]

VC 2.04

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-14 19:00:00)

- Dec 14th 19:00

Kinda bitter actually.

[LicketyQuickety]

T3, why did you get greedy? Nothing wrong with sharing a win.