Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Facebones

i have zero opinion on facebones' posts but assuming mollie vs koba is v likely to be a town hood mathematically that leaves Facebones as the highest probability to be mafia.

[innocentvillager]

if koba v mollie is actually TvT i think anyone who has called them TvT at this point is more likely to be town and anyone who is expressing doubt on one side is slightly more likely to be scum. the assumption of course is that koba v mollie is TvT which im not certain of yet by any means but just something i believe at this point.

[innocentvillager]

on why im thinking it's a TvT now:

some non-specific thoughts on mollie's overall tone: i think mollie is genuinely very afffected by everything that is being said between the two. i think in a shitfight scum don't really get that deeply affected and emotional about the content of the shitfight, they just preserve the shitfight for the sake of preserving it and clogging up the thread. obviously emotions can be faked but I don't feel like that's what's happening here idk maybe im getting snowed. i think various things like adjusting too much to new information and swinging back and forth and seeing things in my posts to fit what they want to see in it all seem more consistent with a townie who is somewhat emotionally inhibited to see things objectively rather than scum faking the tunnel for towncred (i hope you don't take offense to that mollie if ur town, i am like that too sometimes (obviously lol)).

on koba: i don't think koba doubles down on the hyperpost super tunnelly approach after barely receiving any TRs. i don't really see the clear scum angle for koba to tunnel and needle me repeatedly taking full responsibility for my death, and occam's razor at this point makes me feel like it's more likely to just be their early hyper aggression and they were able to rapidly cite some reasoning and examples behind that make it consistent with a plausible thought process even if it's flawed.

[Flea The Magician]

hey mollie in case you havent noticed, everyone else wants you to shut the fuck up about our slot and talk about other people.

just like a hint - as I've said several times recently in our PT.

Have fun tho I don't mind you digging your hole deeper, I gave you a ladder but you swiped it away.

Mollie tried, you're doing the koba hyperfocus thing

[innocentvillager]

may as well shell out some remaining opinions.

i skimmed facebones's iso and zero things stand out to me im sorry.

i think T3 is very slightly to be +town because he is actually producing content/asking questions with a plausible intention to understand the gamestate better and not being over the top with emotion which is what he did in a recent scum game. this is quite weak because again im still not too sure how to distinguish between town and scum him.

AliceK zero opinion. i played with town!AliceK once and did not post very much.

Flea zero opinion I don't think fae has really started playing yet.

no idea how to read andres because he's never actually been scum

I remember having an early TL on Holden but i think it's disappearing a little bit. one thing that pinged me slightly was going back to the early framing of mollie vs koba as SvS -> TvS because they can't actually be SvS seems consistent with an early attempt to sow more discord between them. Yes it's backed by what could be legitimate reasoning but it's consistent with a potential scum agenda all the same - i mean if you're going to frame something in a certain way you have to provide some semblance of reasoning

[innocentvillager]

flea why is mollie v koba TvS?

[AliceK]

I think Wright and Justice can be partnered with HoldenGolden. I think they push the same agenda. I will elaborate on this later.

[Flea The Magician]

flea why is mollie v koba TvS?

Good timing.

It has potential to be, I disagree with your "mathmatical" approach, there's a 50% chance it's a t/s hood as far as I'm concerned based on mechanical information available.

I've got in shit fights a LOT with Koba. That we're not in one already is honestly amazing.

This is so much more intense to watch than the ones we've been caught in. Koba's always been confident, it's their thing. They are obnoxiously confident even this early (said with all love)

Mollies approach honestly has come across as town to me, I can see no fault in their play. Engaged, realised it was going to get bad, attempted disengage. Koba Hyperfocus kicks in, drags back in.

And this is where my SR on them is coming in. Every time I've been caught up with Koba, there was a still a lot of other interaction, and there was the allowance to at least partially disengage.

Bias tells me Koba is scum, Gamma minimal posting tells me Gamma is either low interest or scum.
Remove the bias, ignoring the potential trust tells, I have to lean scum on them.

That said we're 2 days in and D1 reads are trash anyway. Be nice to get a feeler on others.
Also wanna know what the lawyer heads opinions are seperately on the game so far.

[Flea The Magician]

Still low on spoons, liking IV more in recent pages, still going to go over them at some point.

[pirate mollie]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner

dumbtell

but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

Wrt: I am pretty sick and tired of your slot using put downs as a form of engagement, after I have asked you to stop.

I am not putting YOU down, I am scumreading you. There is a big difference.

I did not mean it that way but understood, I'll avoid using that term in the future

-Justice

Thank you.

You need to reign in Dkoba. I have asked several times for them to stop and they are escalating, and I have not responded to them in the way I responded to A50 because I am genuinely trying to play better and not result to insults or put downs, because when I want the site to get better at social engagement in general, and also because you are in the hydra and you are a good egg, and I am not not about to abandon that out-of -game read.

This is about consent, and I don't consent to the playstyle that dkoba is trying to force me into. I am in a position where I feel if I don't report them, they will never stop. There was an entire page of "trying to make Mollie feel bad about herself" in our hood.

Talk to him please. I am not even giving the caveat of "if you are town", because you should do this as either alignment, for the health of the gamestate and the site as a whole.

I really like that more people are participating but I need time to process, and I cannot do it if I am constantly being put down, I have an internal Self-Critic that in the past has brutalized me and to hear an echo of that in a game takes a tremendous amount of energy to overcome.

I CANNOT shake the feeling that you told Dkoba to pick a fight with me, cos people tend to auto townread whenever I get into any spats. His outrage seems very similar to scum!MT in the game we just played, and it felt coached in the same way that dkoba has felt from the start. It smells like scum!you.

[pirate mollie]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Take a shot and reread it.

Alice: why is 1) scum lean and not NAI? That logic only makes sense if you come from it with the notion that they are scum only. Show me why it's AI.

Yes it is not scum only thing of course, but I can see a plan to attack anyone who doesn't abide by proposed startegy to be attacked (Mollie). That's scummy. Other than that which is not talking place here,

when you do mech talk without doing reads.

The only mech talk that they have done, is that I thought that they were scum because of I disagreed with their approach to mech, which simply isn't true.

[pirate mollie]

What other reads do you have AliceK? Anything else?

[pirate mollie]

Hmm

FaceBone I have two requests for when you catch up:

1) What's your read on T3 (if you got one)
2) What's your take on Mollie trying to branch out from the interactions with Wright?

Bonus) Does it hurt your soul knowing your name abbreviated is FB such as Facebook? Do you ever stuff your voodoo head in a textbook to get along with that accursed social platform?

1) I don't know what to make of 373 from T3 exactly, for me Kobas point about a high post count being their town meta could also come from scum!koba. Those self-obvservations (look at me, I'm town because I'm doing this, which I've done in previous games where I was town) from a player of Koba's calibre could easily be fabricated. Why is unprovoked self-meta a towny trait? I might be wrong, but to me it feels more like a paranoid scum trait

I do like how T3 was putting pressure on IV and asking him questions with regards to the vote on WJ in order to help understand IV's thought process to better categorise him, and I agree with his sentiments that people should probably ignore the WJ/Molly for a bit.
He's already slightly touched on Alice, but am curious to hear why he thinks Andre/Flea is possible scum?

My read on him is a slight townlean for now


2) I think Molly trying to branch out from their Wright interactions is the right move for them to make, it's so easy to get caught up in trivial shit and it absolutely alters your perspective of the game going forwards, especially this early. Granted, it might not be trivial - only they know what's happening in their hood - but there are 7 other players to worry about, and if you spend all your time and effort focussing on only one slot you're liable to miss certain things others may have done/said


Bonus) I break down in tears every time I realise the similarities between my name and Facebook. In order to help me forget I hit the bottle hard and pray to the dark lord and saviour which seems to be working alright for now bar the shocking hangover I'm left to suffer through the next day. Inevitably down the line someone always notices and points it out again. It's a vicious cycle. Thanks for bringing that up

I really love this exchange, but

FB why are you not talking to IV in your hood?

[T3]

okay that’s my tilt emotional first order reaction rant to getting run up I’ll get over it soon.

Didn't you say previously that you do this sometimes as town, and then fake doing it as scum?

[T3]

VOTE: innocentvillager Really don’t have the energy for bullshit overconfidence I don’t want to deal with this. good luck on day 2 finding scum. Facebones is in my hood.

UNVOTE: iv
wj
stop

[pirate mollie]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Be careful, this enters into trust telling if it's true.

What are you hiding?

Because this reads as a player who knows dkoba's alignment.

Funny story, one of the reasons why trust-telling became a rule sanctioned against, is because of a player who used to do this thing where they would trust tell for a few games to lay down meta claims as town and then purposefully break them as scum. They were a pretty dope player, and loved playing scum.

I really appreciate that you are bringing a much level-headed approach to the conflict but it also feels like you are hiding behind it at the same time. What's going on?

[T3]

I think WJ's case on IV is completely wrong but I'm still going to vote IV for his reaction.
VOTE: IV

[T3]

(yes, yell at me for my progression on iv between 489 and 491).

[Flea The Magician]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Be careful, this enters into trust telling if it's true.

What are you hiding?

Because this reads as a player who knows dkoba's alignment.

Funny story, one of the reasons why trust-telling became a rule sanctioned against, is because of a player who used to do this thing where they would trust tell for a few games to lay down meta claims as town and then purposefully break them as scum. They were a pretty dope player, and loved playing scum.

I really appreciate that you are bringing a much level-headed approach to the conflict but it also feels like you are hiding behind it at the same time. What's going on?

Just trying to avoid getting pulled in while still trying to be involved if that makes sense. Me and koba clash every game, I want a game without that but I also want to try and solve all 3 of you, honestly.

[pirate mollie]

flea why is mollie v koba TvS?

Good timing.

It has potential to be, I disagree with your "mathmatical" approach, there's a 50% chance it's a t/s hood as far as I'm concerned based on mechanical information available.

I've got in shit fights a LOT with Koba. That we're not in one already is honestly amazing.

This is so much more intense to watch than the ones we've been caught in. Koba's always been confident, it's their thing. They are obnoxiously confident even this early (said with all love)

Mollies approach honestly has come across as town to me, I can see no fault in their play. Engaged, realised it was going to get bad, attempted disengage. Koba Hyperfocus kicks in, drags back in.

And this is where my SR on them is coming in. Every time I've been caught up with Koba, there was a still a lot of other interaction, and there was the allowance to at least partially disengage.

Bias tells me Koba is scum, Gamma minimal posting tells me Gamma is either low interest or scum.
Remove the bias, ignoring the potential trust tells, I have to lean scum on them.

That said we're 2 days in and D1 reads are trash anyway. Be nice to get a feeler on others.
Also wanna know what the lawyer heads opinions are seperately on the game so far.

This is a beautiful take on the game, but I disagree that d1 reads are trash. In a 9 player set up with potential d3/d4 endgame possibilities, it is pretty much the groundwork for bottlenecking scum's endgame options.

Do you agree or disagree?

[Flea The Magician]

D1 reads are trash, we have no basis other than possible pattern recognition and our own biases influencing how tone and stuff is perceived.

Once we have solid information, such as a flip, then D1 is worth looking back over, looking at interactions as then motives are known and context is provided.

I agree that D1 gives us groundwork, but thats all we get. Any progress beyond that today, is likely trash.

It genuinely baffles me how players get D1 lock reads. I don't get to that point until at least D2/D3 and usually with mechanical information.

[pirate mollie]

Didn't find enough time to catch up, but from few first pages I think Wright and Justice is scum.
1) discussing mechanics and providing optimal strategy is a cheap way to get towncred, you don't need to do reads and probably people wouldn't reveal their hoods anyway. T3 got baited for that.
2) self-meta thing is something scummy as wellg
, I definitely can see Kobba trying to replicate the same style as scum.
If it worked as town why wouldn't it work as scum.

Also Mollie revealing their hood is quite controversial which usually comes from town as you can never know how town will react to that.

Mollie, T3 - town
Wright and Justice - scum

Will read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Probably I'm quite behind.

1) "could be scum" is a shit reason. You are accusing me that I would never do that as town(which is impossible as a) I did it in a previous iteration of this setup, b) I am town this game) so nice try alice
2) I self meta on the regular as town. Wanna get dunked on? I refuse to talk about self meta as *scum* because it makes it harder for me actually. A conclusion with no basis in fact.

Be careful, this enters into trust telling if it's true.

What are you hiding?

Because this reads as a player who knows dkoba's alignment.

Funny story, one of the reasons why trust-telling became a rule sanctioned against, is because of a player who used to do this thing where they would trust tell for a few games to lay down meta claims as town and then purposefully break them as scum. They were a pretty dope player, and loved playing scum.

I really appreciate that you are bringing a much level-headed approach to the conflict but it also feels like you are hiding behind it at the same time. What's going on?

Just trying to avoid getting pulled in while still trying to be involved if that makes sense. Me and koba clash every game, I want a game without that but I also want to try and solve all 3 of you, honestly.

Well, they were hard townreading you last time I checked in our hood, if that helps.

And I can't blame you. Being on the brunt end of what they are dishing out feels awful.

I have been listening to Beautiful Chorus all morning for a pick me-up. Taking a step back and doing some self-care, but also trying to stay engaged.

[pirate mollie]

D1 reads are trash, we have no basis other than possible pattern recognition and our own biases influencing how tone and stuff is perceived.

Once we have solid information, such as a flip, then D1 is worth looking back over, looking at interactions as then motives are known and context is provided.

I agree that D1 gives us groundwork, but thats all we get. Any progress beyond that today, is likely trash.

It genuinely baffles me how players get D1 lock reads. I don't get to that point until at least D2/D3 and usually with mechanical information.

I disagree. Pattern matching is surface level scum hunting. Determining scum vs town motivation requires more in depth analysis.

Do you agree or disagree with this?

[pirate mollie]

D1 reads are trash, we have no basis other than possible pattern recognition and our own biases influencing how tone and stuff is perceived.

Once we have solid information, such as a flip, then D1 is worth looking back over, looking at interactions as then motives are known and context is provided.

I agree that D1 gives us groundwork, but thats all we get. Any progress beyond that today, is likely trash.

It genuinely baffles me how players get D1 lock reads. I don't get to that point until at least D2/D3 and usually with mechanical information.

I disagree. Pattern matching is surface level scum hunting. Determining scum vs town motivation requires more in depth analysis.

Do you agree or disagree with this?

Addendum, I am not attacking you, I genuinely want to get more in depth about this. If this takes you outside of the game and you feel uncomfortable with it or if it needlessly distracts you, let me know. We can talk about this in MD.

[Flea The Magician]

D1 reads are trash, we have no basis other than possible pattern recognition and our own biases influencing how tone and stuff is perceived.

Once we have solid information, such as a flip, then D1 is worth looking back over, looking at interactions as then motives are known and context is provided.

I agree that D1 gives us groundwork, but thats all we get. Any progress beyond that today, is likely trash.

It genuinely baffles me how players get D1 lock reads. I don't get to that point until at least D2/D3 and usually with mechanical information.

I disagree. Pattern matching is surface level scum hunting. Determining scum vs town motivation requires more in depth analysis.

Do you agree or disagree with this?

I agree with what you've said.

Pattern Matching requires the use of meta as most people do it to show it's "deep" analysis. Otherwise it's shallow and people see that as scum indicative because it's shallow and because it can just be "busy work", it's an easy scum move to just skim on the surface.

There is a LOT of value potentially between you and the Lawyers from what we've seen in this thread, while a lot of it is literally shit flinging with no basis that we can see, it's still giving a lot of insight and determining motivation will be easier later, even after other flips.