Micro 1034 | Meet me on the Astral Plane | Game Over!

[innocentvillager]

lol what

[innocentvillager]

sup

[innocentvillager]

okay andres has to be scum this time right he can’t be town AGAIN right VOTE: andres

[innocentvillager]

andres can you check your hood please?

[innocentvillager]

okay very important question how do I tell u two apart again?

[innocentvillager]

I really would like to be Town just once, I’ve forgotten what it’s like

[innocentvillager]

I did read page 1 lol where’s the part where you tell me who is koba and who is gamma? (I get that it’s 95% koba but I want to be able to tell the difference)

[innocentvillager]

I really wouldn’t mind being Scum like once. I don’t even remember the feeling anymore.

performative

[innocentvillager]

I have zero read on koba slot

pirate mollie like maybe slightly +town maybe not
Holden seems alright maybe a little performative

[innocentvillager]

I’m not convinced that FN is like that essential this game to protect and withhold neighbor info and solvy stuff but I’ll go along with whatever ppl think

[innocentvillager]

Why is andres scummy, IV?

I never said he was

[innocentvillager]

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

[innocentvillager]

hang in there gamma

yeah I just said it seemed performative lool didn’t say it’s not in townrange but thanks for bringing up the meta nugget

[innocentvillager]

can you answer the question please? am I talking to gamma rn or koba sorry I genuinely can’t tell

if that’s the point then fine whatever but I want to know lol

I don’t know why you took the hood claim so seriously it might not even be a real claim

[innocentvillager]

lol @dont change the subject like what I am telling you all my thoughts to your stuffs what question did I dodge.

[innocentvillager]

I am not readable yet

I am an easy read but it’s not going to happen right now lol

[innocentvillager]

well actually why don’t you tell me what you think you see I guess.

[innocentvillager]

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

that's how I intend this to work, yeah

-Justice

ookay thanks so I will assume any non signed post is koba then. And unrelatedly I’m aware activity isn’t really that AI for you

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Wright and Justice huehue

[innocentvillager]

There seems to be a concerted effort to dodge and deflect from mollie and IV and while that's usually too easy to be the solution I'm taking the occams razor approach of that mollie is trying to defend a teammate.

please explain where i dodged and deflected wtf??

[innocentvillager]

okay so gamma signs with justice every time? Is that how I tell you two apart?

that's how I intend this to work, yeah

-Justice

ookay thanks so I will assume any non signed post is koba then. And unrelatedly I’m aware activity isn’t really that AI for you

So whats scummy from me then?
Where did you get the idea that activity isn't AI for me - we havent played together - but ive spectated 1 game where you were scum and replaced into 1 after youve already flipped scum.
So whats up?

i was talking to gamma in that post and ive played with both scum and town gamma - he was lurky and active as both alignments at various times. that's all im saying

im voting your slot rn bc i can tbh and i don't really have any read on you rn despite how much you've posted already. your insistence on me playing to my scum meta is rly weird too and having a confident read on me at this stage is bizarre especially when it's wrong

[innocentvillager]

note that bizarre/wrong doesn't mean i think you're scum necessarily just worth parking my vote here rn, also im more of a PoE type player anyway so not that many things scum ping me, etc etc

[innocentvillager]

You kept avoiding talking about why you did what you did when andres was not your scumread but now its more complicated than that.

im still not relaly sure what you're talking about but okay

yes my "hood slip" was a joke if that's the dodge you're referring to

and andres was never my scumread so im not sure where u got that

[innocentvillager]

sure i will play along with the don't claim hoods thing i don't see a good reason not to

Ok lets approach this differently - why do you think you're *not* playing to scum.meta?

i don't really think im readable yet ive had some shitposts and argued about some things i think are just not true, both of which are things i do as both alignments

and it's helpful to know early confidence is a thing for you

question for u how does scum!you approach this day different from what you're doing here? i get the sense that you're a powerwolf type player that wants to control everything early but i haven't played with u so idrk.

[innocentvillager]

im almost wondering if you were trying to fish for the status of me and andres's neighborhood? like before you jumped to conclusions and assumed i claimed our neighborhood 100% and came at me it was pretty unclear if there's a neighborhood between us？and now after youve forced all this discussion it's probably less likely than normal that we share a hood

[innocentvillager]

ok i believe u

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Wright and Justice huehue

VOTE: iv
Your posts on page 4 didn’t sit quite right with me on a vibes level. Your progression on WJ also doesn’t seem good. You’re saying that you’re not an easy read, because koba said that you a dimly in your scum meta. Then, after koba makes no posts you just vote koba.
What changed?

i don't understand what ur saying here lol what do you find conflicting about my stances

[innocentvillager]

I already said, I think IV is town because I think they intuitively picked up on the over-explaining of the post that they reacted to, that I liked. I think that they picked up on that it seemed scum motivated. It is a weak read.

meh

[innocentvillager]

I didn’t think anything on page 1 was scum motivated and I’m not sure how you inferred so much from that single post of just “lol what” but I guess I’ll let your imagination run wild?

[innocentvillager]

well let’s say I didn’t make that “lol what” post for the reasons you think I made it for (which I didn’t really) is still a read at all/do you have no read on me then? it’s fine if you don’t just curious

[innocentvillager]

I kinda think u are town because you have been very straight-up with everything you say idk it’s a weak tonal read that I got in the last like 15 seconds. I didn’t really have a read on u before that but just noting it here that I had this thought before I go

[innocentvillager]

forced intensity but don’t think it’s AI

[innocentvillager]

No the fuck i didnt.
I assumed it was a true claim becuase im autistic and took it at face value
Fuck you if you think i thought it was a joke becsuse it was *not* clearly a joke to me

I was considering your hood real.and my fucking push on you askkng why you outted it wjth a null read on andees should be proof that was my thought process not whatever garbage about "fishing hood status".

Would you not fucking think its scummy for a neighbor to claim with anything above a scumread? Because i do.

im not sure if there’s a tonal tell here and in which direction if so

[innocentvillager]

I don’t think anyone should be ignored ftr

[innocentvillager]

I don’t understand the distinction between body of work and independent sorry

[innocentvillager]

atp i think i'm going to ignore the mollie wj conflict because i think they are t/t

why do u think that again?

[innocentvillager]

re pirate's 251 uh i think you again inferred some more stuff about my post than i was going for myself? i simply noted those two koba outburst posts as posts i probalby should've been getting a tonal read from but wasn't sure if it's actually town indicative or scum indicative. can you explain what you found towny about it? maybe you'll convince me

[innocentvillager]

in 161 i explained why i was voting koba which is essentially what they were asking. i found those things weird but not necessarily scummy and i wanted to make that clear in 162. i wasn't really voting for the sake of applying pressure

i can understand you disliking my wishiwashiness, but that's just me as a player as both alignments. im not very confident on a lot of things especially early on which is in stark contrast to a player like koba.

ive played with gamma but not really with koba.

[innocentvillager]

the point of my vote wasn't really specifically to apply pressure, im not sure why you think that was the primary goal. i just wanted to have my vote somewhere while i talked to them

as for my current reads, no townreads and no scumleans. i think Holden and pirate are townleans. T3 im not sure but maybe slight townlean but im going to sort this slot as it goes on. wright is still pretty null for me. i don't have any opinion on anyone else

I'm not going to explain all these reads but if you want a specific one i can go more into it.

[innocentvillager]

looool scum is so lucky I’m not going to put in mega effort this game otherwise I’d be unlimmable. I can’t remember the last time I got killed off as town

[innocentvillager]

there’s literally no case on me wtf

The closest thing I have seen is I’m wishy washy and i was wishy washy in a scumgame

the “looks like you’re providing ways to back out of reads” Is not a real argument like wtf??

[innocentvillager]

literally hot fucking garbage lol like this is ridiculous

koba probably scum here or just fucking awful
Holden awful

[innocentvillager]

it’s laughable how you people get such horrifucking wrong confident reads out of what is not AI play

[innocentvillager]

okay that’s my tilt emotional first order reaction rant to getting run up I’ll get over it soon.

[innocentvillager]

sorry for being toxic again (:

[innocentvillager]

Eariler you were agreeing with IV that their meta covered stuff like that unless I'm not remembering. Is it mainly the connection that drives you to render them scummy or are you np longer thinking that's within the relem of town IV?

Pedit: I agree with the association.

Yeah their later posts being super wishywashy is what I expect from scum IV.

I have a recent game where I was replaced in on limlo where I did read IV's posts to find associatives: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87680

like lol what is this a case? Is this how we’re doing meta now? strong player

[innocentvillager]

I outted an FN read and they interpreted me as only fishing for FN(in the same post I outted a couple reads on Alice + Flea)

It's a misrepresentation and I won't elaborate one it because its blatantly antitown to share my PR reads when they are actually good.

So....

this is the second time that Dkoba is answering a question aimed at me with the intent of discrediting me, before I had a chance to respond.

This is what I mean by trying to control the narrative in lieu of scumhunting.

I mean, is Koba's description wrong? Koba outed who they thought might be FN, and didn't push the discussion past that point. And from personal experience, koba is notable as being able to pick up on certain PR tells

-Justice

Yes. He left out the part about IV being easy to crack. He went after IV then backed off and he is in the hood saying that he thinks the FN is between is between IV/Andres. His only scumread is Alice, who has only posted twice, once to FOS you guys. :/

His priorities are clear; he is power role hunter over scumhunting. I mean in his head, his townreads should be IV/Andres/Flea/Me but that is the POV he is navigating from. He is just trying to cross off FN candidates.

VOTE: Mollie

mollie feels tonally town here and ur omgus seems emotional because he’s tunneled on you

[innocentvillager]

im not sure if there’s anything here out of my scumrange honestly but I do know the reasons for scumreading me are bad

[innocentvillager]

I outted an FN read and they interpreted me as only fishing for FN(in the same post I outted a couple reads on Alice + Flea)

It's a misrepresentation and I won't elaborate one it because its blatantly antitown to share my PR reads when they are actually good.

So....

this is the second time that Dkoba is answering a question aimed at me with the intent of discrediting me, before I had a chance to respond.

This is what I mean by trying to control the narrative in lieu of scumhunting.

I mean, is Koba's description wrong? Koba outed who they thought might be FN, and didn't push the discussion past that point. And from personal experience, koba is notable as being able to pick up on certain PR tells

-Justice

Yes. He left out the part about IV being easy to crack. He went after IV then backed off and he is in the hood saying that he thinks the FN is between is between IV/Andres. His only scumread is Alice, who has only posted twice, once to FOS you guys. :/

His priorities are clear; he is power role hunter over scumhunting. I mean in his head, his townreads should be IV/Andres/Flea/Me but that is the POV he is navigating from. He is just trying to cross off FN candidates.

VOTE: Mollie

mollie feels tonally town here and ur omgus seems emotional because he’s tunneled on you

because THEY are tunneled on you my deepest apologies mollie

[innocentvillager]

you’re a meta expert on me now great have you ever seen a towngame of mine? I think ur missing my point

That is not a case lol.

[innocentvillager]

I find it weird that I have to explain to you who are a much better player than I am that me playing similar in one way to like one scum game you observed does not make me scum

[innocentvillager]

it will come over time if I get the motivation to effort, I’m a slow burn obvtown

This game isn’t that old yet, so why are you calling me clear scum so early

[innocentvillager]

how much meta do you actually claim to have on me?

[innocentvillager]

You make these very same arguments when you are scum time and time again and get flipped anyways.

I get flipped because I lose motivation/steam to make substantive posts and fake solving the game as scum, which I do naturally over time as town because I hate playing scum and enjoy town, not because of my wishiwashiness

[innocentvillager]

this game started TWO DAYS AGO

Over a HOLIDAY

[innocentvillager]

just because you and mollie have clogged up the thread with your shitfight for 17 pages doesn’t mean I’m scum here for losing steam and having not posted anything super AI yet

I haven’t posted anything outside of scumrange really yet and I admitted it in the other game too you linked early on. I start getting out of scumrange when I aggressively push against anyas lim and going against the gamestate

[innocentvillager]

koba if you are town you need to stop with this eaely confidence shit. will you take responsibility if I flip and I’m green

[innocentvillager]

do you think my reaction to pressure this game is different than the reaction to pressure I got on day 2 in that town game? i genuinely dont know but that would be a valid comparison

[innocentvillager]

I’m just annoyed at getting scumread for shitty reasons rn. I’m not going to convince you I’m town like this nor do I really give a singular fuck rn

[innocentvillager]

HOLY FUCK YOU ARE SO FUCKING OBSTINATE I cant

[innocentvillager]

that’s not really pressure that you’re linking?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: innocentvillager Really don’t have the energy for bullshit overconfidence I don’t want to deal with this. good luck on day 2 finding scum. Facebones is in my hood.

[innocentvillager]

if you’re scum trying to bait me into rage quitting good job you did it.

[innocentvillager]

I was looking forward to playing a town game finally but I literally can’t rn

[innocentvillager]

someone hurry the fuck up and hammer

[innocentvillager]

I really don’t even know if you’re scum or not is the sad thing I just don’t know but I don’t really care at this point

[innocentvillager]

you have tilted me beyond belief at this point like I just don’t care

[innocentvillager]

please take a fucking look at yourself and your reads when I flip green I can’t deal with this obstinate ego

[innocentvillager]

mollie, please hammer

[innocentvillager]

yeah I ate as scum in the past so because I’m doing it here I’m lockscum great job

[innocentvillager]

like what goes on in your head for you to believe this so assuredly like there’s no chance you’re wrong?)

[innocentvillager]

I understand that people think wishiwashiness is a scumtell but I am telling you that is menas both alignments and koba thinks it’s a lockdown read on my case

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: innocnetvilager
if koba keeps needling me like this I’m re self voting but for now I’m just going to pray I’m less tilted about this game tomorrow. I just can’t when people get overconfident about me being scum for dumb reasons

[innocentvillager]

I understand that people think wishiwashiness is a scumtell but I am telling you that is menas both alignments and koba thinks it’s a lockdown read on my case

No offense to Kobba, but they think all their cases are slam dunks.

(I admire their confidence)

Do you think they are scum piggybacking off me or townboiiiiii

I have no idea I can see both scenarios. They have a lot to gain as scum eg I have been known to tilt selfvote sometimes under pressure or just get super upset I’m not sure. but if they’re town the actions make sense too given that they are just overconfident on me.

[innocentvillager]

maybe scum them just think I’ll just roll over if they put enough pressure on me or I’ll ragequit. they Know I’m a shit scum player so maybe they think I’m a shit town player too. Which I guess I kind of am sometimes. as I’m typing this i kind of think there are other better angles to approach this for scum koba rather than be in the limelight of all this which is actually making me start to think slightly +town but I don’t want to admit it and I’m always paranoid of good scum players.

[innocentvillager]

the worst part about all this is you are going to blame ME for bad play when I flip green.

[innocentvillager]

I just rage claimed my hood as being with facebones. We haven’t talked about much at all.

[innocentvillager]

this is obviously verifiable so I don’t know why you are going bwahaha.

[innocentvillager]

good night

regardless of how much you tilt me I swear I will try to never personally insult anyone this game no matter how much I scream and tilt.

[innocentvillager]

Who is Alice's partner again?

Or are you still adhering to IV/me scum?

I mean, I can't tell. There is a distinct lack of progression in these reads, and scream cog-dis, because you cannot get wild about the idea that IV/me are a scumteam, and vote/push Alice simultaneously.

actually I'm pretty sure koba expressly stated they thought IV/alice was possible
I kinda think you might be town for the IV hood partner dumbtell but this makes me feel less good about that

-Justice

why can't he be scum with someone that's not me and not know who my hood partner is

are you too suggesting im confirmed scum?

[innocentvillager]

oh my god WHY i mean *why can't they be scum* sorry that's the 2nd time. ill slow down and reread before i hit submit

[innocentvillager]

im increasingly getting the vibe that W/J is town i think they've done enough things that make sense from a town perspective and it's a little too big brainy/too over the top fake towniness that on balance i think they're probably just town.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Facebones

i have zero opinion on facebones' posts but assuming mollie vs koba is v likely to be a town hood mathematically that leaves Facebones as the highest probability to be mafia.

[innocentvillager]

if koba v mollie is actually TvT i think anyone who has called them TvT at this point is more likely to be town and anyone who is expressing doubt on one side is slightly more likely to be scum. the assumption of course is that koba v mollie is TvT which im not certain of yet by any means but just something i believe at this point.

[innocentvillager]

on why im thinking it's a TvT now:

some non-specific thoughts on mollie's overall tone: i think mollie is genuinely very afffected by everything that is being said between the two. i think in a shitfight scum don't really get that deeply affected and emotional about the content of the shitfight, they just preserve the shitfight for the sake of preserving it and clogging up the thread. obviously emotions can be faked but I don't feel like that's what's happening here idk maybe im getting snowed. i think various things like adjusting too much to new information and swinging back and forth and seeing things in my posts to fit what they want to see in it all seem more consistent with a townie who is somewhat emotionally inhibited to see things objectively rather than scum faking the tunnel for towncred (i hope you don't take offense to that mollie if ur town, i am like that too sometimes (obviously lol)).

on koba: i don't think koba doubles down on the hyperpost super tunnelly approach after barely receiving any TRs. i don't really see the clear scum angle for koba to tunnel and needle me repeatedly taking full responsibility for my death, and occam's razor at this point makes me feel like it's more likely to just be their early hyper aggression and they were able to rapidly cite some reasoning and examples behind that make it consistent with a plausible thought process even if it's flawed.

[innocentvillager]

may as well shell out some remaining opinions.

i skimmed facebones's iso and zero things stand out to me im sorry.

i think T3 is very slightly to be +town because he is actually producing content/asking questions with a plausible intention to understand the gamestate better and not being over the top with emotion which is what he did in a recent scum game. this is quite weak because again im still not too sure how to distinguish between town and scum him.

AliceK zero opinion. i played with town!AliceK once and did not post very much.

Flea zero opinion I don't think fae has really started playing yet.

no idea how to read andres because he's never actually been scum

I remember having an early TL on Holden but i think it's disappearing a little bit. one thing that pinged me slightly was going back to the early framing of mollie vs koba as SvS -> TvS because they can't actually be SvS seems consistent with an early attempt to sow more discord between them. Yes it's backed by what could be legitimate reasoning but it's consistent with a potential scum agenda all the same - i mean if you're going to frame something in a certain way you have to provide some semblance of reasoning

[innocentvillager]

flea why is mollie v koba TvS?

[innocentvillager]

i actually don't love that koba backed off me so quickly it's weird and almost pockety that they were lockscum on me and suddenly are voting someone else.

[innocentvillager]

if anyone is waiting on an answer to a question from me would you be so kind as to reask/requote (for obvious reasons)? thanks

[innocentvillager]

im just going to re-throw out that i don't see as holden as locktown. yes being cooperative and having coherent, non-super simplistic thoughts are in theory town traits but im not ready to townbin based off of that. if there's any meta evidence that they cannot do this as scum id reconsider.

if it's a "good enough for D1" read then im totally for that, i don't see any reason to push them today yet. just not going to throw away the chance they're deepwolfing yet

[innocentvillager]

also, i think even scum find mollie v koba annoying to a degree so while it might make sense that people trying to break them up are +town i wouldn't bet anything on it. maybe nai because scum might do it partly as a towncred grab too like "look i helped stepped in and stopped this clearly antitown interaction", which some people were probably going to do anyway.

[innocentvillager]

Holden don’t think ur talking to me but I’m aware u were very early to call it TvS and that was kinda weird to me

I was gonna say scum but it just flashed in my mind that scum would probably want to watch it develop and take a more subtle approach so maybe that’s actually town indicative for u in a weird way

[innocentvillager]

I haven't played since May of 2020, but I have powerscummed -> deep wolf every time I roll mafia. Outside of a few idiosyncratic tells, I consider my old metas to be similar. Maybe I do a bit more analysis as town.

yah i think you do a good job of putting in the effort and critical thought process that "looks towny" so im really not surprised that someone would have a strong TR on you meta aside. i think you are a slight townlean for me but im still hesitant to put you beyond that especially i felt (correctly, it seems, according to you) that you can do this as both alignments

re facebones and math and why im voting there: I told facebones this but at the start of the game every townie in a hood is 4/6 to be in a TvT hood and 2/6 to be in a SvT hood because there are 6 townies in the hoods and 4 of those townies are in TvT hoods and 2 are in TvS hoods. The nature of the game is that given no other reads the person in ur hood is the most likely to be scum from any given hood townie's POV. no one has flipped yet so not sure why that was brought up. Regardless of how i feel about koba v mollie hood Facebones was most likely from the start and if i accept koba v mollie as 100% TvT (which is albeit an arrogant assumption but that's not the point, even if im only x% confident in this this is still true) then all probabilities go up (25% base vs 33% Facebones) to (33% base vs 50% Facebones). Regardless 33% -> 50% is a big enough increase and Facebones hasn't really towntold yet at all despite seeming like a chill person so im v okay with my vote.

[innocentvillager]

sure my 479 was devoid of any "solid reads" but again that's just how i play i was giving out my thoughts on every player at the time. im not sure why you think that's so scummy other than maybe wishiwashiness/general lack of a read being some sort of real scumtell for you.

[innocentvillager]

W/J really has been avoiding the thread for a while, im impressed. appreciate koba on keeping their word

[innocentvillager]

the last two sentences i think i made confusing. The main thing is that facebones is most likely to be scum mathematically, that the original base rate for someone being scum was 25% and the original base rate for FB being scum was 33%. if you are townie in a hood it's the same for ur hood partner. If you adjust the scum probability on any of the other people down both the base rate for other people being scum and ur hood partner go up. i don't think FB is actually 50% to be scum because that would imply i think koba v mollie is 100% to be TvT but the point remains

[innocentvillager]

like i would've pushed facebones from the very beginning too knowing nothing about koba and mollie because 33% > 25% but i decided to poke around a bit first and FB hasn't towntold yet

[innocentvillager]

like i would've pushed facebones from the very beginning too knowing nothing about koba and mollie because 33% > 25% but i decided to poke around a bit first and FB hasn't towntold yet

My experience with bonsey is that they're a slow starter. Where's your bar at currently for townieness from them?

are you suggesting he is town?

so far it just seems like a few routine question prods and maybe a couple non interesting opinions, i just don't see any of that as AI. maybe even holistically slightly +scum because a nully/semilurky iso as a whole is kind of a scum characteristic but im willing to not go there yet

[innocentvillager]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87956&user_select[]=36003
btw I just finally had this scumgame finish, If you want to see how I've been generally playing as scum recently -> you can take a look here.

Alice is also in this game and had a much more solvy vibe there.

this game koba seems totally different on just a cursory skim lol but they were on an alt so idk

[innocentvillager]

im down to compromise on Alice later.

[innocentvillager]

@

george

sorry if this is been answered but are we allowed to quote hood posts in main thread? not that i have anything im dying to share rn but would be helpful for future reference.

[innocentvillager]

Actions speak louder than words

did you also watch TTB recently

[innocentvillager]

holden maybe if you ran some large statistical analysis you would find the person who posts readlists on D1 scummy

i don’t know if that’s the case at all but it’s in your experience and how you feel, and who am I to dispute that without my own evidence

So in a vacuum I guess sure you could use that as a scumtell to whatever % scum equity increase you think that means for any readslist making player

I will say a couple things despite that tho

I think it is disingenuous to distill my thoughts on those players to my pure like “qualitative probability of them being scum/town” stance. sometimes I (and I bet lots of other p layers too) will just lay out thoughts on players kind of just as a canvas to get our thoughts. Yes it’s for other people to see but also for me to just lay out in posts for my own brain and own review. I don’t agree that all nulls should be treated the same, I think the addendums which lay out points in favor or against make the read more interesting that just pure null. It explains roughly why I arrived at the opinion I did/what things I thought about even if I didn’t decide to write paragraphs of detailed explanation

The other thing is I think readlists are good for me to kind of organize how I’m feeling about everyone at a particular time and documenting that for myself and others. Particularly after big moments or any sort of reset, but honestly it’s probably just more based on whenever I feel like it or not. I think that was around the time I was getting heavily pushed so I wanted to lay out my current stances on people.

Anyway you came up with your own scum narrative for why you think what I did was scummy so this is just me telling you my approach to this kind of thing so take that for what you will. Two sides of the same coin.

[innocentvillager]

@Koba I had early pings from Facebones. Frankly that’s all I have. I think Flea’s reaction to your fight with pirate mollie was highly Town indicative, and I have a general sense that IV is probably Town. That’s it though. Until I read the fight in detail, and really scrutinize Holden (who seems highly competent), I am hesitant to put a read out there.

I like this take

[innocentvillager]

But they maintained the self-vote and was actually executed

that was a year ago and the context is totally different around that

[innocentvillager]

sorry not going to be able to put much into this until tmr probably. ill vote FB or Alice atm of the leading wagons. i can answer any urgent questions if you @ me

[innocentvillager]

im ready to hammer alice

[innocentvillager]

holden come hammer

VOTE: AliceK fuck it

[innocentvillager]

Votecount 1.10

AliceK(4)

~ Wright and Justice(268), T3(43), Flea The Magician(51), Andresvmb(39)

Facebones(2)

~ innocentvillager(106), HoldenGolden(69)

Wright and Justice(1)

~ piratemollie(136)


Not Voting (2): Facebones(16), AliceK(8)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-05 18:49:25)

FLAVOR

"a stranger enters the room. behind his green beanie and red scarf, you can see he's staring at you."

"you feel cold."

wow i was very confused for a second hi datisi

[innocentvillager]

i claim scum a lot me claiming scum is not related to alice claiming scum weird conspiracy theory by andres

[innocentvillager]

?

[innocentvillager]

IV is pushed to the brink, reveals who their Neighbor is, and then all of a sudden you back away (despite the detailed, rather compelling case from GH I might add that you never up to that point actually went back over, and after you confidently declare them Scum based on meta and their self-sabotage) to push on a slot that could clearly reveal who the last Neighbor potentially is (and since you’ve already revealed who your Neighbor is in piratemollie, there’s really not that many choices left).

Now I’m going to go finish reading, so maybe I’ll change my mind. And yeah, I can’t say that I think Holden is Scummy individually actually. They have a straightforward way of looking at the game and again, seem mighty competent. But it’s miraculous that IV got so close to the brink, revealed who their Neighbor was, and all of a sudden the votes there disappear as does the case. I need to read through the progression obviously, but I’m intrigued. This game is a very interesting read actually. I have a feeling the Scum Team is playing at a high level.

Thank you for bringing that up. It is sorta strange how quickly everything disipated after IV revealed his hood with me. The wagon which grew and suddenly disappeared on IV consisted of WJ, T3 and GoldenHolden, right?
And now T3 is voting Alice due to POE and agreeing with WJ's read?
It seems a bit sheepy and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Do you think it's possible that IV is scum here?
If IV was town, would scum let them off the hook so quickly after getting them to turn suicidal and being one vote away from hammer?

You might've been asked before, I dunno- what do you think about IV claiming to be in a hood with you? Do you think he was trying to fish for the FN?

god if it's really just as easy as Alice/Facebone snore

this is almost too over the top in terms of desperately trying to frame away from partner and onto me after the mollie/koba TvT disintegrated

like either scum are big braining this or it's Alice/Facebone

[innocentvillager]

i have no read on flea but ill take peoples' words that fae is town for now

holden i still don't know

everyone else at least seems townish at least to a degree

ill worry about it if alice flips town

[innocentvillager]

facebones posted more analysis in our hood and it's starting to concern me that the solve isn't facebones/alice i think he might just give up if he's scum with Alice here

[innocentvillager]

if alice flips green i am taking a closer look at HoldenGolden

[innocentvillager]

is this a joke? lol

[innocentvillager]

why would i want to lim you ive stated multiple times i think ur town lol

and yeah re alice flipping red, i just feel like if that happens, it's indicative of a partner who is less aggressive and not really comfortable getting in there and trying to divert away from Alice. I think W/J is good enough to convincingly push someone else/could've actually gotten me killed or someone like Facebones. also they pushed/voted Alice along with a few others.

i don't think you're scum. Holden could be scum with Alice if they are just hoping to solo deepwolf to the end but i still think they could've tried hard to kill someone other than Alice, they're clearly a competent player. That mostly leaves Facebones who was on the more inactive/passive side, and who's already in my hood so mathematically more likely to be scum, and who hasn't really towntold much.

but post-hammer posts are not making me feel good about Alice-Facebones team which in turn makes me feel anxious about Alice's flip

[innocentvillager]

i will need to put some more effort into this if Alice flips green tho and reset some of my reads

[innocentvillager]

facebones was mia during the night which I’m sussed by on a first order level but on a second order level would he really just abandon the PT overnight knowing that I had expressed anxieties about it ?? idk

[innocentvillager]

I’m not sure here

maybe I will relook mollie

also no longer convinced WJ is town either for some reason

part of me is considering the Alice got bussed hard equity

[innocentvillager]

I thought this flip would make me more confident in the gamestate but I don’t think I am solidly town on anyone rn

[innocentvillager]

what was the case for T3 town again? and Flea roughly?

[innocentvillager]

again I guess facebones is still kind of the easy answer but there’s the tinfoil part of me that’s getting nervous about flipping there

[innocentvillager]

Alice was p useless is it crazy for me to think scum could’ve made a big show of it when there are zero mechanics to hurt a solo scum victory?

[innocentvillager]

I’m just considering the possibilities

[innocentvillager]

I mean Alice literally scum claimed in andres’s hood immediately for some reason? Maybe they didn’t want to play scum

[innocentvillager]

relax I’m not pushing you yet but it’s hard for me fmpov to be completely confident it didn’t happen

like honestly, you are still close to top town for me lol

[innocentvillager]

so i planned to bus alice from *checks notes* before post 113?

I’m not sure why you think it had to happen this early?

busses can start off as just early distancing/anti associatives, I’ve seen scum go after each other early on in the game ish

only later did the bus become more serious, after you got over my wagon

I’m just saying it’s possible

[innocentvillager]

it's also possible im just town who buried a person who was shading me all game


so frankly your point is like pretty garbage and not conclusive

Of course it is and I never made any such claim it’s conclusive what

I feel like to you everything is so black and white

[innocentvillager]

IV, you either case mollie or FB.

the time for tinfoil garbage is not today unless you actually find evidence

i dont want to see dumb vague accusations against T3/Me/Holden/Flea.

if you think one of us is scum, you need to come in swinging with a case not a bunch of "could be's"

lol you don’t get to tell me what to do sorry

[innocentvillager]

fwiw I like ur reaction to all this at least

[innocentvillager]

chill why make this an ego thing

just play your fucking way and I’ll play my fucking way fuck off

[innocentvillager]

831 was a p rude post and I’m not a fan of the way you’re talking to me

[innocentvillager]

MOLLIE NEEDS TO DIE

Okay why?

I can’t tell what is going on with T3’s slot rn, can someone reexplain why he is town?

[innocentvillager]

I’m not interested in killing WJ/MT until ELO if we get there, I’m only going to look outside of there for now

Hope you’re okay mollie

[innocentvillager]

Flea Holden T3 Facebones Im like 85% sure last scum is here and so is the friendly neighbor so thats 3 ppl really that I have to sort

[innocentvillager]

From the looks of it there's a neat PoE

what are you basing this off of again?

[innocentvillager]

what do you thjnk you’ve done that’s towny?

[innocentvillager]

Fb can you give us a rundown of where your heads at and why

[innocentvillager]

I think I’m going to try and paraphrase a little more from our hood so people can get more context on this slot. I’m okay with killing FB probably but I think it’s still worth discussing for a little longer and I’ve asked FB to hopefully be even more open with his thoughts and give us what he’s got if he’s town.

[innocentvillager]

hmmmmmm

[innocentvillager]

I’m feeling a little conflicted about voting FB

[innocentvillager]

I didn’t interpret that post as him thinking it was flea

He told me I could be right on Holden in the hood, I think

The way holden pushed both me and Facebones but had Alice in the Depths of their PoE are a little concerning to me

[innocentvillager]

I got a vibe when skimming holdens iso just now that the things they care about are very like “this is what I thjnk is blanketly a scum tell and you’re doing it so i will vote you” which I know could be playstyle but didn’t sit well with me

Let’s call it NAI for good faith

I honestly think rn, it’s either Holden or Flea with a slightly lower chance it’s FB, thats my top 3 rn

[innocentvillager]

MT I see you and I thjnk those are good points, I’ll have to keep thinking about this

I also independently feel like FB has been VERY sheepy overall with regardless to his gamestate opinions but maybe that’s just him

[innocentvillager]

Everyone else seems to think he's town though, and being second on the wagon is kind of hard to ignore so I'll say he's town for now

I think this suggests that he’s kind of a sheepy person in general which makes me think the sheepy was is NAI

[innocentvillager]

im talking about fb not you

[innocentvillager]

meh

FB's read on me has shifted over the thread and he doesn't explain every single twist and turn

but I've also been nice to him in the PT lol. i don't really have as strong of an issue with his read progression

[innocentvillager]

the way holden pushes slots give me the heebie jeebies idk

it's just like it's purely constructed as like everything interpreted in a bad light to make FB look like this scum with an agenda that did nothing ambiguous or towny

it's maybe just a playstyle mindset thing but it feels almost agenda-y. im aware one of my biases wrt to this is that i am naturally a very paranoid player who tries to consider everything sort of in a vacuum and can see both town and scum indicative things in actions. and it's a totally different kind of style to just start with a narrative and fit everything FB is doing into that narrative

like, even if FB is scum i don't get the feeling he's on this super linear trajectory to string up lim after lim mechanically immediately as the thread turns their back to one of his miselim targets, and it's weird that holden is convinced on this that it's like the nail in the coffin. idk

[innocentvillager]

WJ i did skim the game and didn't get a ton out of it (they see less "pointed"/intense in that game overall) but im going to review it again to think about it a bit more critically

[innocentvillager]

i town

[innocentvillager]

he memed an entire town game recently I was in where I tryharded so yea idt this behavior is indicative for him

[innocentvillager]

Nightless pandemonium 3 if ur curious

It was kind of a meme game to be fair but still

[innocentvillager]

i town pooks u town ?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: holdengolden

[innocentvillager]

acted kinda towny D1 blah blah coasting busy blah blah oh cool FB is lockscum blah blah

I’m p meh on this slot rn at this point

[innocentvillager]

ok let's just say I was viable yesterday even tho I don't really think I was.

Why would I want to be eliminated?

why wouldn’t you want to be eliminated?

[innocentvillager]

i realize my activity has also been meh lately and if I had more time I would’ve defended FB I was starting to think they were town

But I didn’t

I didn’t face the fucking moment

And all that became of me was someone who bitched on on his townread

Damn

[innocentvillager]

idk if I believe pooks is town either tbh loool but idk if I care about the hammer

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Holdengolden

[innocentvillager]

sorry have been busy I’ll get to this

[innocentvillager]

nor probtown which makes me want to kill pooks

[innocentvillager]

I’m not scum

mt maybe you should try and remember why u thought I was town before you gear up to vote me…?

[innocentvillager]

i don’t think scum norwee is capable of coming out the gate and pushing me hard like this. he knows 1v1 me is a dangerous idea and I will kick and scream if seriously pushed and I think he eases himself into the game more instead of just blasting a case right at me. There’s an overconfidence, narrative-heavy aggression that isn’t nearly as present as in his scumgame

his scumgame is meeker and more tentative which I felt in mini normal 2207 snowflakes a while back. When I was scum in a recent micro game 9:12 (?) he pushed me for the same reasons he’s pushing me for here, not even making a direct reference to that game in this thread which makes it feel less performative too. He’s simply stating his opinion and creating this narrative in his head where I am scum because he thinks he knows how to read me and fits every action I do into that narrative so he can call everything I do scummy

The reasons he gave are reasonable fhpov, I feel. A lot of those things I did do in old micro. But the reality is a lot of things I do, I do as both alignments partly because so much of my scumplay comes from trying to cheaply emulate my townplay - yes yes ik it’s not good but who said I was good at scum.

[innocentvillager]

this game probably ends pooky -> t3 if T3 is not the fn. maybeeeee outside shot on nor and even slimmer on mt.

Pooky doesn’t care about this game at all. Basically Zero opinions which is worse than memeing some targets. I think he’s just memeing with zero content because he knows he is not winning this with red pm so he wants to have some fun but that’s just a theory.

T3 thought was leantown but i should admit I don’t really know how to read this slot. Koba seems to think he is locktown so I will sorta trust that for now

Why didn’t the Fn die if scum isn’t me or mt? Because WJ was a pain the the ass of a townie (who also wanted pooky dead, btw), and they can always kill fn tomorrow if they already know.

if there’s anything people found convincing about Norway’s “case” on me please quote it and I will respond why it is incorrect.

[innocentvillager]

and they also get to push me. Idk a lot of things are lining up for me for pooky scum but I will admit too that this is partly narrative driven. I’m not confident but PoE seems to lead me here as well.

[innocentvillager]

no one gets to vote me here without reasons. no apathy votes, you sus me let’s fucking figure it out. i will not roll over like facebones

[innocentvillager]

i alrdy said the scum is MT but im happy to watch you throw

do you think I’m town? i feel like everyone wants to vote me

[innocentvillager]

i mean do you independently tr me or just sr her

our minds work in different ways

[innocentvillager]

I feel like Uve played with me enough to know how to read me or at least try given I am p polarized ?

and sure if you are pushing MT, same thing

I thjnk it’s possible you can push MT today or have me as a miselim target

Whereas If you instead killed the fn, that would make it less likely that it’s me or MT who is scum and we become less viable miselim candidates

idk it sounded better in my head but I still don’t see how any of this puts you above null

[innocentvillager]

i also know that u like to just tunnel ppl bc u can like with cows so I’m not discounting you as town

I’m approaching you very cautiously here bc ik it’s hard to read you

i have a feeling I’m just poeing you into the scumteam because it “makes more sense” and not because ur actually scum which is why I will never be that confident unless I have a real Tr on everyone else u feel?

[innocentvillager]

lol ok that’s interesting why?

and I thought you weren’t trying to read me but now you did have an opinion on me before this?

[innocentvillager]

i always care A LOT about staying alive as either alignment

honestly, I’m probably more survivalistic as town

you can meta me if u don’t believe me

[innocentvillager]

yeah I was a little checked out from this game I will admit but I’m a little more motivated now

[innocentvillager]

but we all have those time periods as both alignments

It was honestly just from like eod2 to like now ig

[innocentvillager]

my vote would be on you if I was confident u were scum

Clearly I’m not that confident

I’m talking to you mostly to get a sense of what’s in ur head and get actual interactions to read you from

And yes when u start to sus me like u did just now I am going to respond to it with self defense regardless of my read on you.

[innocentvillager]

the weirdest thing IV did was act like he should have saved facebones yesterday idk it sort of felt like from left field since facebones was pretty much a slot that always died and it felt like IV got that the other day

but today he's like mortified fb flipped town

even that isnt really much to go off of though

I was starting to TR him and I always expressed some doubt about the Fb/Alice solve…

I expressed a little bit of concern in main thread on D2 when we were about to kill him too but a little more in the hood to him

I didn’t really stick it through though, I wasn’t too confident in it and I got busy/checked out of this game/was more emotionally invested in my scumgame that I just finished

[innocentvillager]

idk nor im not really okay with just insta dying if im wrong on pooky if that’s what you’re asking

Like I will still fight like hell if you kill pooky and he flips green

i thjnk I’ve been p townie this game even if not like blindingly obvtown like some other games

[innocentvillager]

if scum nor has picked up the ability to go full aggro on me like that then that is what happened and is a small possibility

i leantown on MT but most of my read on that slot comes from mollie

I’m also just a paranoid person in gneeral but I still feel it’s pooky if I had to pick

[innocentvillager]

did anything I say in my recent posts give you any doubt about me?

[innocentvillager]

i haven’t been miselim’d since mini 2163 and part of my ego wants to keep it that way lol :3

so again I will not roll over tmr if we kill pooky and he’s scum

like again I’m not confident on pooky it’s just what I feel is most likely rn given info

[innocentvillager]

uh I don’t do trust tells

To my knowledge everything that I have done 3 or more times in a town or scumgame I have done at least once in the other

to my knowledge, and does include that one probably

i think I talked about how hard it is to miselim me last game at some point but I can’t remember

[innocentvillager]

can you remind me why you don’t care about this game? did u care about the micro game we just played

[innocentvillager]

i guess I don’t know what fits your criteria for caring about a game

[innocentvillager]

and does it ever differ depending on your alignment u think or do u purposely make urself unreadable in that way

[innocentvillager]

my goal is to not get mis eliminated today

That is my number one priority today

[innocentvillager]

It's really easy to say the right things when you already know what is going on.
I have a feeling that town!you might just OMGUS me here, so the fact that you went the route of saying i'm in my town meta is a bit creepy.

why do you think town me omgus u?

[innocentvillager]

uh I don’t do trust tells

To my knowledge everything that I have done 3 or more times in a town or scumgame I have done at least once in the other

to my knowledge, and does include that one probably

i think I talked about how hard it is to miselim me last game at some point but I can’t remember

Not really

you gave a really shitty doc claim and looked like deer in the headlights scum.

do you have an example of a time when you were scum and you talked about taking pride in not being mislimed?

i mean I don’t really want to actively spend effort looking for something that will hurt my case?

you can try micro 9:12 maybe if u want to look lol.

[innocentvillager]

can you remind me why you don’t care about this game? did u care about the micro game we just played

I usually don't care about any of the games I play because I am an extremely OCD person and if I begin to care I am somewhat overwhelming insufferable and I don't want people to dislike me.

I don't think there's really a trigger point for what makes me care about a game, usually it's someone from the other side talking shit and me feeling somewhat insulted I guess?

I didn't really care about the micro game we just played, I mostly did that one to hydra with Alyssa and most of my thoughts about that game are in the discord chat I had with her. She's really smart/fun/nice and I enjoy hanging out with her.

okay thank u

I appreciate ur vibes in our games btw

and for what little it’s worth i think you should care about whatever you want to care about regardless of what ppl think but that’s totally just me :3 i mean that in a nice way

[innocentvillager]

my goal is to not get mis eliminated today

That is my number one priority today

Really? My number one goal is to get scum either today or tommorow.

yea this is a philosophy I embody in recent games as town. as scum I say this but obviously it’s just because I want to survive.

It’s not a survival thing imo. It’s what I thjnk maximizes chance of us winning. If I die that’s 0% chance of hitting scum. If someone else dies it’s easily way higher maybe around 50% very roughly in this case. That difference is massive and probably more than any read I make is going to be. i don’t care at all about being the nightkill in a given game because that kill is guaranteed to be town anyway.

[innocentvillager]

gotcha that’s totally fair pooky I feel the same sometimes

[innocentvillager]

If I die that’s 0% chance of hitting scum.

From your POV if town, yes.
Doesn't really convince anyone uninformed though. (Which would be everyone else if you're scum)

yeah Ik I’m just explaining that’s why I think survival is very important as town and seems like pooky is already bored of me saying this so I’ll stop.

And pooky I still think I want to kill you and I’ve mentioned why in my iso. But I need to keep interacting with you guys and rereading to gain more confidence/maybe decide on an alternative path.

[innocentvillager]

it feels like you don't want to vote for me tho

r u worried i will vote for you back?

I don’t see the need to rush the day and don’t really want a hammer

Everyone knows where I’m at in my reads

[innocentvillager]

To be fair i think killing wright first is always better than killing you first and it can be done in whichever order

^ this @T3

it's not clear to me that it's strictly better but yeah i don't think we should use NKA to determine who's likely to be scum or not here. Sure I'm in that pool so im biased but just think about it

If scum knows who friendly neighbor is, why wouldn't they get rid of a vocal person who everyone townreads first when they can just kill the fn tomorrow

there's a potential benefit to this, and i don't really see how it could be much worse?

like it makes them look better - either the fn claims the following day (day 3) and makes the n1 target look better, or fn doesn't claim and town is in the dark for an extra day but then either way scum can make me and mollie look a little worse

[innocentvillager]

MT ik ur busy but roughly when do you think you'll complete your analysis by

i need to make sure u TR me bc if you're not reconvinced on ur readthrough ill need a little time to convince you myself.

[innocentvillager]

there was stuff earlier that implied to me that if Pooky is scum he's actually kinda big braining it

why do you think scum!pooky here is big braining? i don't particularly feel like if he's scum that he's big brained anything. I don't really have a read on him in general.

[innocentvillager]

i'm fn
we all knew that already
except iv lol

i didn't really look for fn because i didn't care. idk why koba was so invested in this project but ill chalk it up to playstyle diff. i believed them to an extent when they said u were the fn.

[innocentvillager]

there’s a reason narrative arguments are bad

it’s very simple

I will make this argument as either alignment

yes I thjnk the scum is in pooky then if that’s wrong it’s you and if that’s wrong it’s MT. There’s a clear reason I make that post as town.

[innocentvillager]

it's not a waste of time

im trying to make sure we don't just autolose by immediatley killing me if you're not scum.

MT had me at obvtown before and i think she can get back there if she just rereads or reinteracts with me.

[innocentvillager]

I only repped in to say

that InnocentVillager is the scum.

VOTE: InnocentVillager
I can towncase Pooky, Morning Tweet, T3.

nor were you following this game before you repped in?