Manatee's Pokemon Large Theme | Game Over

[mastina]

BTW re: Pooky coaching/defending scumbuddies, I'd like to ask: what COULD Pooky do?

Woolax died before Pooky replaced in.
Gypyx was killed by the Vig. (Yes, said Vig was Pooky, but I have my concerns about clearing him for this.)

Dwlee was cop guiltied by the playerslot who is un-1v1able. What could Pooky do to prevent the Dwlee elimination?

Imaginality was the only slot Pooky could have helped, but we caught imaginality in large part due to a botched fakeclaim, which was botched in a way that Pooky could not have known about the ways it was botched.

Pooky might like to coach and defend scumbuddies, but doing so in this game was quite impossible for him.

Will shows all 5+ ways when home, also:
Dwlee has a spot where they DO look coached, will show when home.

[mastina]

Imaginality was the only slot Pooky could have helped, but we caught imaginality in large part due to a botched fakeclaim,

which was botched in a way that Pooky could not have known about the ways it was botched

.

Um what. how would I not be able to coach Imaginality into making a better fake claim if I was partnered with him?

Bolded for emphasis.

imaginality's claim is the sort of claim that actually matches a claim made after it was run through the coaching process. It's a roleclaim that's remarkably well-fit for the roles we had in the setup claimed at the time. A role that is reasonably strong, has uses left (giving incentive to keep him alive), but not gamebreaking especially with the Godfather alive, and which doesn't have any holes in it that the town could use to prove it's a fakeclaim.

The factors which made it fall apart were things that wouldn't have come up even with you there.

(Also, multitasking via playing tft ranked trying--key word being TRYING--to finally finally push my way into Platinum. So, may not get around to actually doing the things I want to, tonight. I'll be sure to before the end of the Day tho. I have until this time on Wednesday Night/Thursday Morning to do so. Which isn't a lot, admittedly; I want more, but I think that I should get what I need to say.)

[mastina]

the surprising thing is anyone townread them.

Speaking of townreads tho.

Yours are actually a major reason for the Pooky lean.

Rather, the trajectory of them over the course of the game.

[mastina]

She is not going to break her meta to win a scum game
She hates playing scum lol.
She'd rather be able to say at endgame that she can't be scum because of _______ than survive and win a scum game.
It's all about incentives.
She literally has no incentive to break her meta.

This is wrong, tho I'll have to be home to explain why. That Pooky is saying this though is important to the Pooky lean.

So I'm still working on the Pooky compilation post (multitasking doesn't mean not tasking at all on mafia, Pooky, it means precisely what it sounds like, multiple tasks at once; a lack of finishing does not entail a lack of doing at all), so why this is important to the Pooky lean will have to wait.

However, I

can

go into why this is wrong tho.

There's three aspects to things which can/cannot shift in my play:

There are things that are literally biologically impossible because I fundamentally just cannot think of things like that. These are things that cannot shift not for lack of trying but just from not having just...no ability, no capability, to do it whatsoever. I might want to, it's just that they just...my brain works a way and no matter how much I wish it worked a different way, it just...doesn't. These aren't broken not out of laziness, but out of an inability to do so.

There are things that are possible to do, but which my own morals/rules/principles/standards prevent me from doing. As an example of something along these lines to get an idea of what I am talking about: I

believe

that,

technically

speaking, it's not against site rules to, say, lie about the death of a relative. I believe that,

technically

, you could do that--and it would give you an advantage in all your games rather than just one, so it's not even a scum-exclusive thing! Technically speaking, not against the site's rules, so doable, theoretically speaking.

I don't think I really need to describe why something like that is something I would never do, even if it would give me an advantage and even if it is not against site rules. It's unethical, it's immoral, and frankly? A rl-scumbag thing to do. It's disgusting, detestable, unacceptable. We even have proof of it from this game, no less--you can see the accusations against kuribo having

done

this being Very Much Not Okay. If the ACCUSATION of someone lying is Very Much Not Okay (and to be clear...that was VERY MUCH

NOT OKAY

to do), just imagine the accusation actually being

right

.
That may be a bit of an extreme example of my morals/rules/principles/standards/ethics/etc., but it conveys the point I am getting across: some things that may be technically legal and may give you an advantage in a game are just Not Okay to do, period. End of discussion. The game is Not Worth doing Those Things. So they, I basically lump in with the above: they are things that are essentially impossible for me to do, just for a different reason, a self-imposed standard which I feel that

every

player (not just myself) should be held to.

...But then there are things that are not brain-related or ethics-related.
And literally all of those?
All of those, if I did what you were describing, Pooky, that'd be a trust tell.

But all of the things which are like that, aren't trust tells, because you're wrong, Pooky.
I can break them as scum. And have. And do.
There are things that, at some points, have gone from being some of my strongest towntells, to becoming strongly associated with my scumgame from ONE or TWO examples of me having broken the previously-unbroken towntells and them becoming more associated with my scumgame as a consequence.

For instance, rather infamously, at one time, I was known for being

more active

as scum, where

lurking was one of my strongest towntells

.

The inverse is true now, obviously--but there was in fact a time where scumastina was more active than town mastina. Multiple times in fact. It's a bit cyclical; every 2-3 years or so, it shifts between the two. And it

starts

with breaking my meta for a scumgame.

Every scumgame of mine, I

do

try to subvert my meta at least

somewhat

. I obviously have an ideal scum meta that is the polar opposite of my town meta. But just because my scum and town meta are night/day different, doesn't mean that my scumplay has zero subversions of expectations to it. I

do

throw curveballs. I DO change things up.

I treat every scumgame as winnable even when it shouldn't be. I can and do fight my ways through literal 1v9s--and I've actually won some of those literal 1v9s! (It doesn't happen often, but it DOES happen.) And have a track record of, even when failing the 1v9, getting pretty damn close. (4p mylos, 3p lylos, 5p day before lylos, usually the time that scumastina as solo-scum loses.)

I have

every

incentive

every

scumgame to break my meta--at least, somewhat.

All the night/day differences between my scumgame and towngame are, essentially, situational:
I

could

fakeclaim in any of my scumgames. It's not a rule for me to always tell the truth--it's that every single scumgame, I made the determination that trueclaiming was better than fakeclaiming.

I

could

post a lot in any of my scumgames. I actually came close once, in one of my last scumgames! LLD ramrodded a D1 elimination through on me during a time I was sitewide V/LA, but prior to the elimination, I was actually posting

more

in that scumgame than I was my concurrent towngames! (No, really!) Had LLD not ramrodded the D1 elimination on me through during that sitewide V/LA, I'd actually have a scumgame that people would point to as proof that my "I don't post as scum" meta is bullshit. (But, because she did ramrod the elim through on me, the meta still holds

for now

.)

I

could

be a lot more solvey in any of my scumgames rather than passively existing (and maybe posting readslists--that's an example of proving you wrong, Pooky, for instance, as there was a time where scumastina didn't post readslists; my awareness of this obligated me to, as scum, start doing so! So I broke the scumastina-doesn't-do-that meta in my scumgames and now people call readslists nai from me).
It's just that in every scumgame I've played, I've deemed it more advantageous to have not done so in that specific game.

You get the idea.

I can change my meta and DO.
It's just that it needs to fit the game, and quite often, my current meta just...does the job fine.

[mastina]

I think scrap/arcanist is underrated tbh

I'm basically a fourtrick:
Mutants (forced if void, because I know best that comp)
Academy
Protector
Yordles.

Coincidentally, 3/4 have strong overlap allowing for pivots into any.
(Imperial and/or Assassin are both in the Academy branch, as possible pivots, via Katarina-Talon synergy.)

[mastina]

I don't even understand your long post

what are you trying to explain to me?

I think you're town because you said you don't post in games as scum.

The meta checks out.

Do you want me to reconsider this?

Do you want me to throw this out the window because you feel bad about being townread this way?

Like I don't really get what you're trying to say.

I am contractually obligated to point out anything wrong about a player's assessment of my meta, and your assessment was wrong.

As for the townread?

I'll get to that! Tonight, I hope.

[mastina]

OH speaking of things to do tonight;
The list of ways to accidentally Vig Gypyx is up to eight.

[mastina]

is one of them a typo

Close, actually!

[mastina]

(prolly not doing the Pooky-lean but I'm about to pagetop the why-Pooky-could-accidentally-vig-Gypyx)

[mastina]

So the eight possibilities I found for Pooky's suggested shot on Gypyx going through accidentally are:

1:

Pooky didn't read who his scumbuddies were

.
This might seem impossible--after all, if scumbuddies are in the role PM, how can Pooky miss who his scumbuddies are?
Well that's the thing.
"if" scumbuddies are in the role PM is just that--an IF.
A lot of mods don't include scumbuddies in the actual role PM. (It's a security risk because it makes it easier to fuck up and post the entire scumteam accidentally. Or at least I assume that's their logic? That or they're just more lazy. I always put the full scumteam in the role PMs, but only ~33-40% of mods do, and the other 60-66% don't.)

It's quite possible for Pooky to have legitimately not known Gypyx was his scumbuddy when he suggested the Gypyx shot.

He could of course have learned this after the suggestion.

2:

Pooky could have misread or misremember who his scumbuddies were

.
Now admittedly--during the night, this is less likely, but it could happen if Pooky wasn't actively checking the scum PT. If he read who his scumbuddies were wrong or misremembered, he could have thought Gypyx wasn't scum.

3:

Pooky misspoke to SirCakez

(yes, this is the "basically a typo" one, Pooky).
Pooky could have said Gypyx while intending to have said a different name, accidentally suggesting the shot on a scumbuddy when intending to have not done so.

4:

Pooky's scumteam misread their role PMs

.
As an example of how this works, it'd be fully possible for them to have accidentally thought Dwlee was the roleblocker and imaginality the rolestopper, rather than vice-versa. It's an easy mistake to make, and has a certain logic to it, if they roleblocked accidentally Gypyx intending for it to be a rolestop and rolestopped me accidentally intending for it to be a roleblock.

Pooky would like to point out that he wouldn't let a mistake like that slide--but he was a

replacement

, meaning he had 48 hours

at most

to talk with his team, and he might not have had full access to his scumbuddies' role PMs to know what they were. (Many mods do not post the entirety of the scumteams' role PMs to the scum PT. I'm one of the few who does, but this is another 33-40% thing.) If he didn't have access to their role PMs, how would he be able to correct his scumbuddies' mistakes? Especially in the limited timeframe?

5:

Gypyx attempted to steal Pooky's role, but it failed due to being not solely his

.
This actually fits

remarkably

well as a Big Brain type play that seems 5head which backfires horribly by the scum not actually being able to do what they thought they were going to do.

Basically, Gypyx had the power to steal a scumbuddy's role for a night.

Pooky suggested a vig of Gypyx.

If Gypyx tried to steal Pooky's role, the theory behind that I think you can figure out: the vig shot on Gypyx would fail, and instead, Gypyx would have a vig shot of his own to use, granting the scum a double-kill and causing the vig to fail to kill scum.

Depending on whether the vig would be used N1 or N2, this could feed into Gypyx making a fakeclaim, like "I eat the first action to target me and use it the next night" (similar, but not identical, to my role, and actually a real role which has been used in a game before!), or claim redirector, deflector, some sort of action-redirection, or Gypyx could even feign ignorance and say that someone must have redirected the shot off of him.

If this interaction is something scum thought of, the theory behind it is actually

brilliant

--but with the, in hindsight, flaw of not being able to actually steal the vig away and prevent the kill.

Pooky would probably again argue: "I would catch that glaring flaw with the plan and prevent it".
But I would like to say: a

maximum

of 48 hours. MAXIMUM. In a THREE-WAY conversation.
There's a conversation with SirCakez.
There's a conversation with scumbuddies.
There's a conversation with the mod.

And there's delays between them.

As an example, if SirCakez asked Pooky who he wanted to vig 8 hours into the night, suddenly, that 48 hour window? Has shrunk from 48 hours down to 40. If SirCakez asked 12 hours into the night, suddenly, that 48 hour window? Has shrunk down from 48 hours down to 36. When SirCakez asked Pooky who to vig plays a huge part in how much time scum would have to coordinate a plan and think it through.

Then we get to, mechanics players are not omnipotent and are not going to think of everything and necessarily ask the right questions to the mod. Thinking of the plan is easy enough; thinking of the glaring flaw in the plan is not guaranteed. Even IF Pooky thought about the flaw (which is not guaranteed), it depends on the questions he'd then ask to the mod. He could have gotten an answer back from the mod that made him THINK the plan would work, but due to bad wording, it didn't. Or maybe there was too much of a delay between asking and receiving a response.

If Pooky asked a question of the mod at 18 hours before deadline for instance, the mod might not answer until 4 hours before the deadline--meaning that the flaw in the plan might not show up...until too late to change it.

6:

The scumteam could have tried the 'submit from scum PT' trick

.
What's the trick?

Well basically.

In the vig PT, there would be a submit of vigging Gypyx.
After this was submitted, the scum could have then attempted to, in the scum PT, submit,
"

Pooky vigs *player who isn't Gypyx*

", with the intention of overriding the vig PT action.

If this worked, it would have the effect of making SirCakez

think

that

their

kill failed, but that somehow, a second kill went through, leaving him with the (false) impression that there were three killing sources rather than two. And to be fair, this approach is something that, for some mods, would in fact work! If Pooky is a scum vig then submitting his scum vig through the scum PT would normally be an acceptable method...but, because it's a joint vig, obviously, that would present more of a problem.

The scumteam may not have realized this problem until it was too late.

7:

The scumteam lacked coordination

.
This is rather simple. Pooky would tell the scumteam about the plan to vig Gypyx, and the scumteam would try to plan their actions, but they changed their submitted night actions multiple times. In one version, the scum would have protected Gypyx, but due to poor coordination, in the

final

version that the mod accepted, Gypyx was not protected and thus, died.

This could easily happen from the scumteam wanting, for instance, to have Pooky change the vig so that they could use their other roles, but it didn't come together.

8:

The scumteam used a roleblock to try and protect Gypyx

.
This one's not as likely because Titus's N1 failure is unexplained, but it's possible the scumteam tried to roleblock SirCakez, but the vig went through due to it being a joint action.

9:

The scumteam just missed the deadline for submitting the appropriate Gypyx-surviving actions

.
Maybe the scumteam DID have a plan to save Gypyx...but they didn't get the actions in before the deadline, so the mod had to use the actions submitted at deadline which didn't protect Gypyx.

Again, I'd like to point out--Pooky only had 48 hours if he is scum to get in synch with his scumteam, WHILE ALSO mutitasking via engaging with SirCakez. Pooky only had 48 hours to coordinate everything. That's not a lot of time. So maybe the scumteam had a huge big brain strategy they wanted to enact. And then they just...didn't get it in on time. Which can and does happen.

Now, most of these are actually not entirely mutually exclusive, either.

Pooky could have initially not seen who his scumbuddy was, then later needed to course correct with a plan intended to keep the vig on Gypyx without backtracking but make it fail, as an example.

The scumteam could have misread their role PMs, then corrected them, but not had the time to change their actions before the end of N1, as an example.

The scumteam could have come up with the plan for #5, asked the mod, wasted 12 hours on it, have the mod tell them it wouldn't work, switch to #6, waste another 12 hours on it, have the mod tell them it wouldn't work, and scramble in the last 24 hours and fail to get in the Gypyx protection strategy.

You get the idea, but like.

There's quite a lot of ways for Pooky to have accidentally led to Gypyx's death, a lot of them not necessarily contradicting each other as it's possible like 2-4 of them happened in the scum PT N1.

[mastina]

(prolly not doing the Pooky-lean but I'm about to pagetop the why-Pooky-could-accidentally-vig-Gypyx)

(that is to say, not tonight--it'll probably be tomorrow night. Which will be at deadline, but. I'll get it in.)

[mastina]

(Yes, said Vig was Pooky, but I have my concerns about clearing him for this.)

can you elaborate on this?

Well, read 6525.
Add to those nine accidental possibilities the tenth possibility of it being deliberate, just from scum;
The idea is not original to me, but it could just be that Gypyx asked to die and/or it was a team decision.
There could be any number of reasons for this.

They thought that Gypyx's death would damn town;
They thought that Gypyx's death would clear scum;
They thought that Gypyx's role was the weakest scum role;
They thought that Gypyx dead was better than a different scum dead;
They thought that Gypyx was going to die anyway;

And so on and so forth.

Yes, Pooky could coach Gypyx once rolling scum, but he only had 48 hours and Gypyx was not coached through D1. The scumteam could have received Pooky's offer for coaching and then made the collective decision to kill Gypyx anyway.

Or maybe they just didn't have the time to coach Gypyx and decided it'd be better for Gypyx to die.

There's basically a dozen different ways for it to have happened, including that the scumteam decided to invest in Pooky, wanting Pooky to become cleared. Or decided that Pooky would be cleared as damage control after Gypyx's accidental demise.

All of this means that I wouldn't clear Pooky from just the vig.

I would instead look to all of Pooky's play aside from being cleared.

Including, critically, how he was jailkept N3 the night there was no scum kill.

If the scumteam thought Pooky was cleared from vigging Gypyx, then they would in fact have Pooky be the one submitting the kills.

I'll need to double-check if scum are multitasking by default or not, but if scum are not multitasking by default, then whoever performed the scum kill would need to not be using their role.

imaginality had to use his role, so he couldn't do the nightkill without multitasking.
Dwlee was dead.
Woolax was dead.
Gypyx was dead.

So on N3, the only person who would actually use the nightkill would be the last scum, Pooky or Milobird.

And one of those two was Jailkept that night, with no kill happening then.

wow I went from cunning scum mastermind to bumbling buffoon p fast

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Even good mechanics players can make errors. They can fail to ask the right question, they can misunderstand an interaction, etc. Good mechanics players have a better grasp of mechanics than the average player--they are not omniscient. They are still human and make human mistakes. Sometimes including...game mechanics, the thing that they are usually good at.

This is doubly so given the limited timeframe of N1. 48 hours is not as much time as we think it is when timezones factor into the equation. And reduction in time means reduction in ability to minimize/eliminate errors. Even the best mechanical players in the world if dropped midway into a situation aren't going to necessarily have the right path mapped out by the end of the deadline.

Plus, a few of the fumbles are explicitly cunning scum mastermind in theory, bumbling buffoon in execution.

except what if mastina just gets NKed here and we get into a huge mess of WIFOM

I mean at this stage probably regardless of who the scum is (but especially if it's Pooky) I'm getting nightkilled here.

I'll

probably

be able to post my Pooky Lean reasons before deadline, but I won't be able to do everything I want to before deadline and I explicitly wanted the time to check my theories and such.

A lot of the things keeping the Pooky lean from being an outright "It's just Pooky" are role/mechanics-based with a side of paranoia regarding how interactive Milobird actually have been throughout the game. (As in, I see mechanical/role-related reasons to doubt that Pooky could be scum, paired with doubts about how much Milobird was actually towning it up throughout the game.)

But the Pooky lean is still there, dominant, at that like ~59% mark, because by play, I've got some VERY big reasons for thinking it's Pooky. Trying to figure out how to word it is what I'm doing now, to get the things across, but to give very short incomplete cliff notes just in case I can't finish the full version:
-Pooky's first mention of me was when I voted Pooky after Wheme jailkept him. That happened on D4. While Pooky said he wasn't reading D1, that still leaves D2 and D3 completely unaccounted for (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky didn't apply any of his mastina policies to me this game (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky has felt like he's doing to me what he thinks I do to him when I am scum (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's been fairly hypocritical today doing the very thing he accused DKKoba of having done previously (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's adamancy in Milobird being town vanished overnight with DKKoba flipping town (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's projecting pretty hard (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)

Probably more but again, this is not a good post to use, this is just my emergency "if I don't get it in before deadline, remember that these were things I said" post, because they are actually pretty damn strong points.

Without the paranoia-on-Milobird paired with the mechanical doubts, the reasons I have actually would push the Pooky read to ~90-95% certainty. It's just that thanks to the mechanical doubts paired with the paranoia on Milobird, they're downgraded from basically-certain-scum into just Pooky-lean (~59%).

(for the record, mechanical doubts largely involve Gypyx interacting with a duo role + the Lunatone/Solrok synergy, again, things I want to investigate but alas, won't get the chance to, I probably should say more here too but given SirCakez already townreads Pooky overall more I don't think elaborating on the mechanical doubts is as important as elaborating on the lean for thinking why it's Pooky in spite of the mechanical doubts)

[mastina]

chow and imaginality look scummy
look at imaginality, KTT, chow
i think Milo is scummy but too scared to shoot them
Goat was shootable but Titus took over the slot
gypyx might be a good target too his iso sucks
i want to shoot imaginality or gypyx

I forgot that I made a post saying I wanted to shoot imaginality or Gypyx
obv Gypyx is the better one to shoot there if you're scum
but Pooky didn't even try to push for chow or Goat slot or KTT who were all town options

Pooky shooting Titus would be a scumclaim from him and he'd know it'd be a scumclaim from him--so he wouldn't have suggested shooting Titus's slot. Plus, you weren't pushing that hard.

Pooky I would assume has history with both kuribo and Malakittens--I would assume that similar to Titus, shooting them would be a scumclaim from him and he'd know it'd be a scumclaim from him. You only mentioned them once anyway.

The only name that I can see Pooky maybe shooting from those posts is chowchow so I think Pooky's options were a lot more limited than you would think, there.

[mastina]

Why would we be reluctant to bus woolax when we’re bussing gyphx.

This is a good point btw.

Generally speaking, on D1, a player voting for one scum rather than a different scum is not a sign that player is scum--quite the opposite, it probably is a strong indicator that the player is town. (Source: I have been that player in literally dozens of games, where I voted scum on D1 but the town eliminated a different player who was also scum; I haven't really seen the inverse, of scum voting one scum and letting another scum die without being on the wagon.)

Why would we be reluctant to bus woolax when we’re bussing gyphx.

woolax had a better role? you thought woolax was more savable? Gypyx wanted to die? (lol)
idk

Not knowing is a problem, because Woolax's role was not in fact better, and Woolax was not in fact savable. Gypyx wanting to die is valid, but that's a point against Pooky more than a point against Milobird.

[mastina]

Milo did hardly anything yesterday and just sort of watched the Koba lim happen

I think that this is an incredibly unfair painting of their play btw.

I was there.

I did not think Milobird was doing hardly anything yesterday.

I did not think Milobird just watched the Koba elimination happen.

Remember--I was scumreading Milobird yesterday.

If I thought Milobird was doing hardly anything yesterday and/or I thought Milobird was just letting PookyVKoba happen yesterday.
As the person scumreading Milobird yesterday.

I would have fucking said so.

The fact that I did not say so means that Milobird was not in fact doing hardly anything yesterday and was not in fact just letting PookyVKoba happen yesterday.

[mastina]

oh, huh, there's actually 12 hours left.

Yeah I've got the time.

If you don't mind, I'm going to procrastinate now because I feel the need to do some other things first.

Eat, use bathroom, rest (maybe even nap), I had a long work day and been depressed all day so like, being tired = need some recharge before writing the Pooky Lean out in full.

[mastina]

-Pooky's first mention of me was when I voted Pooky after Wheme jailkept him. That happened on D4. While Pooky said he wasn't reading D1, that still leaves D2 and D3 completely unaccounted for (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky didn't apply any of his mastina policies to me this game (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky has felt like he's doing to me what he thinks I do to him when I am scum (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's been fairly hypocritical today doing the very thing he accused DKKoba of having done previously (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's adamancy in Milobird being town vanished overnight with DKKoba flipping town (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's projecting pretty hard (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)

Probably more but again, this is not a good post to use, this is just my emergency "if I don't get it in before deadline, remember that these were things I said" post, because they are actually pretty damn strong points.

Without the paranoia-on-Milobird paired with the mechanical doubts, the reasons I have actually would push the Pooky read to ~90-95% certainty. It's just that thanks to the mechanical doubts paired with the paranoia on Milobird, they're downgraded from basically-certain-scum into just Pooky-lean (~59%).

(for the record, mechanical doubts largely involve Gypyx interacting with a duo role + the Lunatone/Solrok synergy, again, things I want to investigate but alas, won't get the chance to, I probably should say more here too but given SirCakez already townreads Pooky overall more I don't think elaborating on the mechanical doubts is as important as elaborating on the lean for thinking why it's Pooky in spite of the mechanical doubts)

If scum are not multitasking by default, then whoever performed the scum kill would need to not be using their role.
imaginality had to use his role, so he couldn't do the nightkill without multitasking.
Dwlee was dead. Woolax was dead. Gypyx was dead.

So on N3, the only person who would actually use the nightkill would be the last scum, Pooky or Milobird.
And one of those two was Jailkept that night, with no kill happening then.

It should be noted before I go that Mastina has little reason to suspect or question pooky as scum. It would be easier for her just to let pooky lose the game for town. But that’s sort of conjecture. Just a random thought, but I sort of feel like I’m conf biasing there maybe.

-Bell

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

Why would I re-evaluate when I've literally never been wrong on Mastina once.

That Pooky is saying this though is important to the Pooky lean.

Milo why did you abandon your mastina push? because I said I wouldn't vote her?

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

I have no idea why you think my scum game has improved a single millimeter, the more likely argument is just that you can't backtrack and you're stuck.

Funnily enough your accuracy and propensity to be on scum wagons is a point against you because the rest of us look like clowns in comparison and towns tend to look more clownish as a result of their ignorance of who is and isn't scum.

e.g., Koba pushing at us and then 180'ing on to you because they sorted us.

Bookmarking this, as it is DOUBLY part of my Pooky lean.
(The second is Koba related.)

I still don't follow how town you comes to the conclusion that I'm harder to read than Mastina tho.
Like we're both equally terrible scum. So. Arguably I'm worse scum actually. It's one of the reasons I think you're scum Pooky, I don't think either of us have looked scummy this game from a bird's eye view.
I'm aware Notty disagreed, but like, yeah.

...No? Mastina isn't confirmed, so there's merit in it. I'm well aware that saying this stuff can piss them off and cause them to retaliate vote me. Still gunna do it.

Bookmarking this, as it is important to my Pooky lean.
(Also as a reminder, the post where I used reminder words like 'mirror'? Also part of the Pooky lean.)

I will point out that Mastina has been right on (2 or 3 eliminations this game?)

At the very least Mastina had more skin in the game.

I've had basically every slot as town/scum at some point, so you could say that I've had perfect reads, shit reads, or anywhere in-between the extremes, and you'd be right.
I'll say that I had Woolax, Gypyx, and imaginality as voteworthy the entire game tho, and that Dwlee was null before I deduced their role and thought it town.

This said, I've more to say on Pooky, actually somewhat related to my gamelong reads, but again, I need to be home for it.
(3 home things: defense, research, and the 3+1 point thingy. Mental note, is 'mirror'+'arrow'+'project' +1.)

So basically.

My concern on Pooky has to do a lot with his approach on slots in the game.

He didn't interact with me until D4, and even then, it was very brief:

its ok Mastina!town loves to vote for me she's like my biggest fan

Mastina only scumreads me when she's town
when she's scum her read of me is always "the towniest town to ever town"

This was on D4, after Wheme claimed the jailkeep on Pooky which at the time looked like a solid guilty.

mala titus mathblade cakes 10000% town
pooky milo mastina v town
some people r left over here

mala titus mathblade cakes all checked innos
pooky milo mastina are town af
koba chowchow I can't remember who else is playing

These are the next mentions of me.

lol wut
mastina is so far out of her scum range she couldn't find her way back to it with GPS

With this as the next.

You might remember that as a fairly recent post all things considered; I think that 5251 was a D8 post?

Suffice to say though, that Pooky's interactions with me are very very sparse.

Pooky didn't do

anything

that I would expect him to do.

Pooky normally takes a look at my readslists and does the inversion trick, trying to find the scum at the top of my readslist--and if he finds none, then he usually thinks (with a decent degree of accuracy) that the reason why is that I am scum.

More than that, Pooky has been steadfast that I'm town and out of my scum range.

That's true

now

, but it wasn't at the time Pooky was first interacting with me.

It wasn't until we eliminated imaginality that I was really out of my scum range--that was what, D4? D5? Somewhere around there.

Before that, my post count was actually fairly low, and so too was the amount of content I was posting.

Yet I wasn't absent entirely.

I was there, I was posting, I was around, but I wasn't the strongly-town self that I am now.

Why didn't Pooky interact with me? He always checks my readslists to invert them; he's not done that once this game.
If Pooky thought I was scum, that'd be one thing--because my readslists as scum tend to be more accurate.
But Pooky didn't think I was scum; he thought I was town. NOW it's obvious--but why did he think it back

before

it was obvious? Why was I not scum to him? I wasn't out of my scumrange yet at the time.
Pooky didn't comment or interact with me basically at all.

Pooky has his own meta standards for reading me, but didn't use them at all this game. The closest was him going "mastina's always wrong on me so her saying I'm scum means I'm town", but that in of itself was a bit disingenuous because I've got a perfect track record of reading Pooky when I am scum, and Pooky didn't say I was town when commenting on my scumread on him. Why was there none of the usual work from Pooky that he shows on me?

It's not due to this being a Large Theme with a lot of players--Pooky has done this to me when there's far far more players than there were in this game. Like, this is a 21-player game. By D2, it was an 18-player game.
18 players.

Pooky has definitely put the work into reading me when there was 17 players, and has also put in the work to read me when there were

twenty-four

players. (Pooky did not ignore me in DEFCON 5 the way he didn't interact with me in this game.)

New poe: {Pooky, Titus, Dwlee, KTT}

That said, the only name I'm not really interested in sheeping you on here is Kitty Trauma Team. Would vote the other three.

Why didn't Pooky notice this?

Does this meta apply to all days? In Owner's Market Blitz mastina only mentioned it as a D1 meta.

I was under the impression it was a D1 tell that Pooky has never bussed a scumbuddy on D1 before.
Past D1, I would assume he

has

, although I'd expect it to still be a rarity, but I've no way of really knowing for sure.

Ralts/PookytheMagicalBear

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(did a slight reordering of the nulls to be more accurate since chowchow is the towniest and Pooky the least townie of them, and also have a couple promoted reads, but mostly the same here)

Why didn't Pooky have anything to say about this?

So removing that, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
Wisdom
imaginality
WhemeStar
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
Malakittens / Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens)
PookyTheMagicalBear / Ralts
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD and Wisdom (I realize this isn't universal) and think that Malakittens and DKKoba are still less likely to be scum from play alone.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{imaginality, WhemeStar, chowchow, Pooky} for 2 scum remaining.

Why did Pooky have nothing to say about my POE here which included him?

While I briefly had Pooky as a vote and he commented on me then, why did he say nothing when I then locked him as town?

I was locking him as town.

Pooky has, previously, treated me locking him as town as basically a scumclaim.

Why didn't he do so here?

Pooky hasn't reevaluated or reassessed me, in spite of there being classic red flags he's previously associated with my scumgame. Yes, I am NOW out of my scumrange--but Pooky never had a thought about me being scum during the times PRIOR to me being outside of my scumrange. Why was I

never

in consideration for being scum to Pooky?

It's as if Pooky is doing the very thing he says I do to him when I am scum.
He describes it as, "when mastina is scum, she always has me as the towniest town to have ever towned, but when mastina is town she has me as scum".

Well, Pooky this game has had me as the towniest town to have ever towned, but when he is town, he has previously not shown this attitude as far as I can remember.

Pooky has also done the very thing he accused DKKoba of doing.
Remember when Pooky accused DKKoba of changing reads on who was locktown vs who was lockscum on D8 compared to D9?

He did the

exact

thing on D9 he accused DKKoba of having done on D8.

this is also the viability i keep in when thinking of pooky/mastina being scum and its part of why theyre eliminated from being scum. that just isnt reasonable for them to let imaginality be so bad and throw as godfather.

scum koba can't keep track of all the lies they tell rofl

i learned something new about your scum meta between then and now
prove your scum meta has coaching and maybe you might have a point but I know for a fact that there are scum games where you let your scumbuds do whatever even if its terrible

ITT koba swears up and down they r spewed town by themselves

Excuse me, but what's wrong with this tactic.

its nonsensical gibberish.

you have the same scumtells as SS being allergic to certain lines of discussion its funny :3
at least youll spew out a little bullshit about stuff but you are too afraid to go in depth at all

lol at koba giving up and deciding to try to convict ralts

its still your slot buddy

I can't find the quote I was looking for, but Pooky basically said that DKKoba was, after STD was dead, opening up mislims by changing their read on players.

Pooky proceeded to do precisely that today.

Pooky has shown some hypocrisy in his reads by projecting things that he says they are doing when he has done the exact same thing.

Like, I can quote all of Pooky's reasons for Milobird being town, and they are quite extensive:

its not milobird

bell way out of scum range

koba is the last possible baddie

I've literally never misread bell in my life

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

it's literally just koba

This is my first post here today

you're voting for me
you're bad
have fun losing

What happened to the certainty that Pooky has never misread Bell before?

What happened to Pooky's defense of Milobird?

What happened to Milobird being hard-cleared?

And why did Pooky decide that Milobird was less clear than me come today?

Yes

, someone would need to be scum--but what makes me be more-town to Pooky than Milobird?

What makes me be so unscum to Pooky compared to Milobird who Pooky has apparently never misread before and yet Pooky is claiming that Milobird is the last scum?

Why didn't Pooky think that I could be scum? Pooky is less familiar, less intimately knowledgeable, about my play compared to Milobird's play.
Why didn't Pooky keep the townread on Milobird and think that I could be scum?
Why didn't Pooky reassess both of us? If Pooky came to the conclusion after reassessing that I couldn't be scum, that'd be one thing--but Pooky never did this reassessment at all. Pooky never once did this work to sort me.

Pooky just had me as town, and had Milobird as town, and then shifted the read on Milobird without one iota of effort to focus on me.
Yes, Pooky put in work to defend me from Milobird--but that was Pooky going out of his way to prove that I am town.
Not Pooky figuring out that I am town.

The difference between the two is going out of your way to prove I am town means you are already assuming or know I am town;
Figuring out I am town means you are sorting me as town and showing your work.

Pooky did the former, of defending me as town, not the latter, of sorting me as town.

When it comes to incentives, this fits more with Pooky-scum than Pooky-town.

Pooky-town has a drive to not get things wrong.
Pooky-town has a drive to be right.

Why, if Pooky is town, does this drive to be right mean absolutely zero thought given to my alignment with literally all of it being defense of me that presupposes I am already town? It doesn't make sense for Pooky to have NOT sorted me at all. (Basically, put it another way: Milobird's approach here is actually the townier of the two because Milobird

isn't

locked into one player being the final scum and is considering both.)

But as scum, there's a very obvious incentive:
Pooky does not want to 1v1 me.
Pooky

might

win that 1v1, sure--but it's

easier

for Pooky to win the 1v1 versus Milobird.
Not easy, mind you. A 1v1 versus me is gonna be hell, and a 1v1 versus Milobird made up of Bell and notscience is going to be nightmarish, so no matter what, it's going to be difficult.

But given the choice between the two, Milobird is by far the easier person to 1v1. Bell is many things; charismatic is not among them. notscience is also fairly lackluster in the convincing others field.

I can do a better job of defending Milobird than Milobird can; I can write a better case for Pooky being scum than Milobird can. So like...Pooky knows that Milobird is, while not EASY to mislim, compared to me, EASIER to mislim.

As scum, I see the incentive clear as day; focus on eliminating the player who is less of a pain in the ass to verse, especially given the other townies' stances.

I was scumreading Milobird so would be receptive to Milobird being scum;
SirCakez has townread Pooky the entire game so would be receptive to Milobird being scum and SirCakez has previously scumread Milobird.

In contrast SirCakez has continued to insist I am town at every stage in the game and while Milobird has had one half think I am scum the other half has contested that. Meaning a push on me would be an entire order of magnitude harder to maintain.

It's easier for Pooky to not suspect me, because Pooky suspecting me makes me more likely to OMGUS him. Pooky knows this. He knows I will OMGUS people with burden of proficiencying them--so he would know that if he suspected me, I'd pick up on it being bullshit.

Pooky said "why would I reevaluate mastina when I've never been wrong on mastina once", but that logic doesn't hold given he's also never been wrong on Bell once--yet clearly has reevaluated Bell.
Why the reevaluation on Bell who Pooky has never been wrong on, but NOT a reevaluation on ME who Pooky has never been wrong on?

Pooky's reasons for townreading me also are not the normal ones. Pooky's inventing excuses it seems like to NOT suspect me, rather than displaying his normal tells.

And the point about Pooky not pointing out why people are scum is valid.

Pooky said that it was DKKoba just because it was DKKoba. That was it. Pooky said that I was town and that Milobird was town so there was an implicit "DKKoba is scum because nobody else can be", but Pooky did not go into explaining the read at all. Pooky didn't investigate, didn't look, didn't assess, DKKoba's alignment critically. Pooky just went "lol ur scum" to DKKoba.

And after DKKoba flipped town? Now Pooky is doing the exact same thing to Milobird. There is an implicit "Milobird is scum because nobody else can be", but Pooky does not explain the read at all. Pooky isn't investigating, isn't assessing, things critically. Pooky's just shading what Milobird is doing, saying "lol this is scum" to it.

Yet Bell was on-point:
Pooky was previously on record as saying Bell

could

not

be this good as scum.
Pooky said that Bell was fundamentally incapable of being this as scum.
Pooky insisted that Bell literally couldn't do what Bell has done this game as scum.

And yet today that all went out the window...why?

Again, I can't see the town motivation for throwing the Bell meta specifically out the window without having thrown out the mastina meta as well. Why discard the accurate read on Milobird without discarding the accurate read on mastina?

I CAN see the scum motivation--having no choice but to choose a 1v1 to enter and deciding Milobird was easier than mastina.

Milobird is also right that Pooky's accuracy here is precisely an issue.

Again.

Pooky has been VERY accurate.

Pooky has a basically flawless record at reading both me and Bell.

Pooky, as town, SHOULD be accurate enough to have

never made the mistaken read in the first place

.
If Pooky is town, then he was wrong on a read that he should NEVER have been wrong on in the first place.
Either he should never have townread me, or he should never have townread Bell. But he townread both--which fits with the typical Pooky as town expectation. It's expected that Pooky as town would know our alignments here and get them right. So how did he get the alignment wrong on Milobird in the first place if he's town?

I struggle to see it.

Whereas if he's scum, it's clear as day; he gave the correct read for as long as was possible, and then only when there was no other option did he switch it from the previous correct (and expected) read into the wrong (but necessary) read.

And again--why was Pooky right on me but wrong on Milobird?
Why was Pooky sure he couldn't have made a mistake on me?

I've had plenty of town players be wrong on my alignment before when expecting to be right on it. Thinking I was town when I wasn't, or vice-versa. In spite of their prior usual accuracy. Why no paranoia on me

at all

? Why not a single iota of thought that I could maybe potentially be scum, at any stage?

So again, Milobird was right--Milobird investigating me is something that could make me more likely to vote them.
Pooky defending me, pocketing me, is something that would make me less likely to vote him.
If I expect people to be right on me, and I expect all three of Pooky/Bell/notscience to read me correctly, then the playerslot who did so is more likely to seem town to me.

But Pooky's play here looks like it is deliberately exploiting that tendency, that trait, of mine.


I'm sorry, this is a mess, probably missing a bunch, probably overlooking things, but like:
This, plus the jailkeep on Pooky, plus the general lack of townness from Pooky, all contribute to thinking that Pooky looks quite scum. DKKoba raised many valid points about Pooky and I probably should've quoted more of those, too, but it all adds up.

In contrast, the only reasons I can think of for Milobird to be scum are specifically reasons Pooky wouldn't be scum. Milobird has nothing by play to be scum here. The only reason for Milobird to be scum here is if Pooky couldn't be scum here, essentially.

Again, there's enough things that indicate Pooky might be "couldn't be scum" to prevent this gigantic post from being more than a Pooky lean.

I do mean it, it's ~59% Pooky and not more.

But I feel it important to say this much.

[mastina]

It's a large theme I don't really feel the need to interact with every person all the time every day.

Prior experience with you has me pressing X to Doubt on this.

[mastina]

This game's ending is the epitome of "not mad…just disappointed.".

(Well, except for the Wisdom lim. There's no disappointment there, only rage.)

I don't have much to say, but I do have ~3 comments to make when home. (2 on D5, one to SirCakez.)

[mastina]

(Well, except for the Wisdom lim. There's no disappointment there, only rage.)

Btw some extra context that might help you understand why I was so infuriated with that:

I got the D5 start PM.

I was reading, and logged in to read while online.

The game thread was

open

when I logged in to read the game.

You may note I did not actually get to post on D5.

But I was around while the thread was open on D5.

You know why that happened?

Because I was reading the thread at the time the lock happened.

The thread was literally open, I saw a Wisdom vote, hit 'quote' on it to try and remind folks for why Wisdom was town...
...And got 'you cannot post in a locked thread'.
I wondered if the mods had locked the thread due to mod error, a need for a replacement, a ban, etc. Because why else would the thread be locked so soon after D5 began and when I haven't even gotten the chance to post?

...And then I kept reading.

And reading.

And saw the posts pile up doing the thing I attempted to press the quote button and write a post to stop.

I was literally

less than one hour

late to stopping the Wisdom mislim.

If I had gotten the chance to post, which I was

less than one hour too late to do

, you all would've gotten me to remind you of why Wisdom was town and should be the last possible player to eliminate.

Literally if people had waited so much as ~45 minutes, the Wisdom hammer doesn't go through.

And with the Wisdom hammer not going through, the game ends on D5 once he comes in and claims.

...You can understand, now, why my reaction was as strong as it was on D6, yes?

(I tend to take VERY poorly to eliminations being pushed through when I am not around. Especially when they are on town. ESPECIALLY when I am only a couple of hours away from being around. ESPECIALLY if I have strong reason to believe the slot is town.)

[mastina]

(Well, except for the Wisdom lim. There's no disappointment there, only rage.)

Btw some extra context that might help you understand why I was so infuriated with that:

I got the D5 start PM.

I was reading, and logged in to read while online.

The game thread was

open

when I logged in to read the game.

You may note I did not actually get to post on D5.

But I was around while the thread was open on D5.

You know why that happened?

Because I was reading the thread at the time the lock happened.

The thread was literally open, I saw a Wisdom vote, hit 'quote' on it to try and remind folks for why Wisdom was town...
...And got 'you cannot post in a locked thread'.
I wondered if the mods had locked the thread due to mod error, a need for a replacement, a ban, etc. Because why else would the thread be locked so soon after D5 began and when I haven't even gotten the chance to post?

...And then I kept reading.

And reading.

And saw the posts pile up doing the thing I attempted to press the quote button and write a post to stop.

I was literally

less than one hour

late to stopping the Wisdom mislim.

If I had gotten the chance to post, which I was

less than one hour too late to do

, you all would've gotten me to remind you of why Wisdom was town and should be the last possible player to eliminate.

Literally if people had waited so much as ~45 minutes, the Wisdom hammer doesn't go through.

And with the Wisdom hammer not going through, the game ends on D5 once he comes in and claims.

...You can understand, now, why my reaction was as strong as it was on D6, yes?

(I tend to take VERY poorly to eliminations being pushed through when I am not around. Especially when they are on town. ESPECIALLY when I am only a couple of hours away from being around. ESPECIALLY if I have strong reason to believe the slot is town.)

(for extra context, I had rushed straight home from work in order to come directly to the game to post. D5 started while I was at work, at 6 pm. I was busy with work, so I either couldn't check the thread or checked it and didn't see an issue because Wisdom votes hadn't happened yet. It wasn't until page 186 that the Wisdom votes started to pile on. This was the page I was reading when I tried to quote a post and found the thread locked. The hammer came through as I was finishing closing up and about to start my drive home, and I arrived home at about 8:30. When the hammer came in at 7:39. There was no Wisdom wagon until 6:30. Meaning that the wagon, basically start to finish, took one hour. One hour, that I was busy in.)

[mastina]

VC 5.FINAL

Wisdom (7) HAMMER:

Malakittens, SirCakez, DkKoba, chowchow, MathBlade, Milobird, honorary-Gamma Emerald

Also, I just want to put it on the record--
NEVER FORGET.

Do more than just take it to heart:
Burn this game into your very souls.

For literally EVERY game you EVER play in the future.

NEVER. FORGET.

Always. ALWAYS. Remember this game, and remember the outcome of it. And remember one thing about it:

It ended in a scum win on D10.

When it would've ended on D5 in a town win, by allowing for the proper due process that you by default give in 99% of your games. And there's a reason you give that due process in 99% of your games. There's a reason that you allow for players to claim before you ramrod an elimination through on them.

And this game is why.

So NEVER FORGET.

Whenever you have a thought of "we don't need to wait". Remember what not waiting did to this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "we can end the game right now". Remember where that thought led this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS". Remember where that bloodlust got you this game.
Whenever you are tempted to lolhammer. Remember what lolhammering cost us in this game. (Literally everything.)
Whenever you have a thought of "we don't need to wait for a claim". Remember what waiting for a claim would've given you this game, and what not waiting cost you this game.

Whenever you see a player suggest any of the above. Point them to this game, and remember, remind them, of why due process exists.
Whenever you see a lack of caution, where caution is being thrown to the wind: intervene, remembering this game, and what throwing caution to the wind resulted in.

I do not fault players for having made this mistake for the first time in their mafiascum careers. It happens to everyone at least once at some point. They get arrogant, they get ahead of themselves, they think that they can just sweep the scum up and that they've got the game on wrap, so the normal rules need not apply.

So I do not fault the voters for having made the mistake in this game.

But make no mistake:
I WILL fault you for it in every. future. game. You and I ever play in.

And so should YOU.

You should not allow any of you seven to repeat the mistake made in this game.

Because, again:
NEVER. FORGET.

I'm dead serious: burn the outcome of this game, scum win on D10, into your soul. And remember. Always remember. Why that happened. It's not your fault. But it's a reminder that in the future if you repeat the mistake, it WILL be your fault. So never let it be your fault in the future, by never forgetting.

[mastina]

The problem was people got it into their heads that we just couldn't miss after nailing Dwlee and imaginality and having so many spare mislims that we could just kill everyone. I was guilty of that myself.

Oh yeah add that to the list then:

Whenever you have a thought of "we can't miss", remember what that mindset got us this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "we have enough mislims to brute force a win", remember where that mindset led us this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "we don't need to wait". Remember what not waiting did to this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "we can end the game right now". Remember where that thought led this game.
Whenever you have a thought of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS". Remember where that bloodlust got you this game.
Whenever you are tempted to lolhammer. Remember what lolhammering cost us in this game. (Literally everything.)
Whenever you have a thought of "we don't need to wait for a claim". Remember what waiting for a claim would've given you this game, and what not waiting cost you this game.

Whenever you see a player suggest any of the above. Point them to this game, and remember, remind them, of why due process exists.
Whenever you see a lack of caution, where caution is being thrown to the wind: intervene, remembering this game, and what throwing caution to the wind resulted in.

(not gonna requote the entirety of my post for this add-on but yeah you get the idea )

[mastina]

mastina is not that scary

kill Mastina

Mastina's like never going to fall for any of my bullshit so what choice do I really have

<3 you Mastina <3

Oh how the turn tables. (From "not too scary" to being killed due to not falling for the Pooky bullshit.)

<3