Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Important Links

Rules - Current Vote Count - Masons and Mafia PT - Mod Thread - Mafia Thread (Normal)

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[Dunnstral]

VOTE: House

?

If a50 is scum here I'm astounded

In all 3 games?

[Dunnstral]

Unless the Hargreaves thing is completely made up I'm pretty sure that has to confirm a50 as mason to the mafia, so why isn't he dead?

Because he can still talk even if they shoot him, being alive in 2 other games

[Dunnstral]

Unless the Hargreaves thing is completely made up I'm pretty sure that has to confirm a50 as mason to the mafia, so why isn't he dead?

Because he can still talk even if they shoot him, being alive in 2 other games

Aren't you one of the four he called out?

Why does that matter?

[Dunnstral]

Fair to assume but I'm familiar with A50 Gambit play (which I assume this to be)

1- You're SCUM (in Setup 3)
2- You're BAD at reading me in general (just refer yourself to the most recent 2-3 games)
3- YOU ARE CAUFGHT SCUM IN SETUP 3
4- If I was gambit'ing I would have done it in NOT THE OPEN SETUP
5- Did I mention you're just outed scum??

Should I be switching to RCE then?

I REALLY don't care which one of them 4 gets eliminated first. It's all the same to me. Whichever accumulates more votes I will also vote.

Your vote only counts in the first and second games so you should not do that

[Dunnstral]

A50 youre putting me between a rock and a hard place. I literally cannot defend without hurting town inside and outside of the open setup. If I go down here I'd look at my votes as likely red in more than 1 setup.

Can you explain how this hurts town outside of the open setup?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Almost50

If I read the rules correctly, that means I'm still voting House in game 3. I don't want a simul-lim.

Alternatively, A50 can be on the wagon in games 1/2, and they should be locked into night before game 3

[Dunnstral]

BANG! BANG!

Radical Rat has DIED in the Open Game.

He was: A Radical Rat.

Also

Spoiler:

A Mafioso

Well, it was worth a try. I was only scum in that game, so I figured, eh, might as well go for it and just worry about playing Town in the other 2.

For my buddies though: mastina was who I attempted to shoot, so cross her off your mason lists.

This does not make you town in the other 2 games

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Enigma
VOTE: Radical Rat

If we alternate our second vote between RR and A50, we can safely eliminate RCEnigma in game C
VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: Almost50

[Dunnstral]

My vote is currently meant for all games. I was under the idea that we vote one for all games on the first day like the previous 3-in-1. Perhaps this is an oversight on my end.

My understanding is that once a hammer is achieved, votes for that game will lock, and then the night phase will only start once all 3 have locked

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: RCEnigma
VOTE: House

[Dunnstral]

I do not know what the split votes are going for.

Does the first vote go for A, and second go for B? What about C?

We are voting for RCEnigma, and then somebody who is dead in game c, so we only hammer game c

[Dunnstral]

I am still uncertain of the voting.

Perhaps I'll sleep on it.

Night calls to me. Goodnight loves.

The first vote goes to RCEnigma in all 3 games

The second vote is for a player who is dead in game C, so the vote in game C stays on RCEnigma (invalid vote for that game) while moving in games A and B

So RCEnigma gets locked in for elimination in game C, and then we figure out games A and B, and then all 3 people flip and we head to night.

[Dunnstral]

@Jingle did I do this right?

What are you trying to do?

[Dunnstral]

Also, this just hit me: WHY would scum shoot me if House was Town there? Why not wait for the "mislim" to go through and THEN shoot the outed Mason?

I can switch back to RCE/House. I really don’t care which.

House is dead in game c

[Dunnstral]

Radical Rat is at E-2 in games A and B

[Dunnstral]

Radical Rat is at E-2 in games A and B

And we should be getting claim first in these two setups

[Dunnstral]

I still don't completely understand.

How do I vote if I just want RCEnigma limmed in Game 3?

All you have to do is vote for RCEnigma, the rest of the votes are spread enough

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

He is dead

[Dunnstral]

okay so I really need to read the rules more carefully then

VOTE: meg in game 3

[Dunnstral]

Why exactly did Meg claim in games A and B?

[Dunnstral]

My guess for last scum in C is Mastina or Dwlee.

[Dunnstral]

For game C that is.

vt

[Dunnstral]

I'm still not getting how that maximizes our chances of winning over actually playing and narrowing down potential partners for each game.

People have been trying to get me eliminated from the very start of the game for literally no reason

This would annoy me but the scum team in group C bungled it up so badly somehow anyways

[Dunnstral]

My guess for last scum in C is Mastina or Dwlee.

I'd be much better at mason hunting than whatever the scum team is doing right now

Yeah? So would I

[Dunnstral]

They didn't even claim to be town in Game B so the rush to counterclaim is weird

[Dunnstral]

Also, "Simple Roleblocker" is a dumb role if you think about

[Dunnstral]

it

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I buy mastina's claim in B but that's alright for now.

I buy it

[Dunnstral]

I was confused about that as well.

@Dunnstral: Would you like to elaborate on that?

It's a joke, I made the same joke post in the last game

[Dunnstral]

I saw it--I don't care.

The demon lord did not surprise!-lolhammer you.

As that's the optimal play for an obviously scum role, that means any other usage of it is suboptimal.

In fact, the usage of it on you is actually damning for you.

If the scum wanted to use the Demon Lord to kill a town player, they should've waited until a town player was at L-1 and used the demon lord then.

Using it before a player is at L-1 thus means that scum are instead opting to let the town know about it--and by having it vote you, that's wifom to dissuade people from voting you.

In other words: the vote on you from the demon lord is actually proof that you're scum.

I didn't even notice the VC on game 2 until now. I always assumed both games had the same vote count and that looking at the leading wagon on the top one was sufficient.

So, this Demon Lord.. is it and "additional" vote? Like, it effectively makes a player "hated"? I ask because you both seem familiar with it, and I wasn't at the first iteration.

P.S. Question open for all to answer. I just want to know it's a "factional" ability, or if it's controlled by a single player.

Why is mastina assuming that it is a scum ability?

[Dunnstral]

Jesters generally don't claim for no reason

[Dunnstral]

it is optimal for town to Lim them

How?

[Dunnstral]

I’m completely and entirely lost.

Nothing confusing is happening right now

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: T3

[Dunnstral]

and with A's threshold being lower than B I can't think of a way to lim in A without limming in B, so I'm stuck.

There are people voting in only one game right now

[Dunnstral]

If the threshhold is lower, we can hammer in one game without hammering in the other

{House/Dunnstral/Dwlee/Ircher} is too obvious, no?

Doesn't seem obvious to me, maybe explain your reasoning?

[Dunnstral]

Demon Lord | House | mastina | CheekyTeeky | T3 | Radical Rat | Dwlee99
The | are where all the possible breaks could have occurred.
If we assumed Cheeky and I are town then we get
Demon Lord | House | mastina | CheekyTeeky - town T3 - town | Radical Rat | Dwlee99
That's 5 possible breaks, and in 4 of those a break occurred. This means there must have been a break between either Cheeky and mastina or me and Radical Rat.
So I think that ASSUMING Cheeky and I are town, there is a confirmed mafia in mastina/radical rat.
VOTE: radical rat

I don't understand what this is saying

[Dunnstral]

Vote Count Mini Theme.1.01

MegAzumarill (E-0):

Demon Lord

, House, mastina, CheekyTeeky, T3, Radical Rat, Dwlee99, HAMMER!

Radical Rat (E-4):

Almost50, Ircher, Amy Dunne,

Dunnstral (E-6):

RCEnigma,

Ircher (E-6):

MegAzumarill,

mastina (E-7):

Dwlee99 (E-7):

Amy Dunne (E-7):

T3 (E-7):

House (E-7):

RCEnigma (E-7):

Almost50 (E-7):

CheekyTeeky (E-7):

Lady Chloe (E-7):

No Elim (0):

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral, Lady Chloe,

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to murder/death/kill or

7

to choose not to.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-12-10 22:00:00).

So I'm a wagon analyzer (what I've called it) and my result was that the wagon had 4 alignment differences between voters on MegA. I'm just trying to confirm if it includes demon lord, but that's a pretty colourful wagon ^.^

I think it's likely Dwlee is scum in B, could be A,B but I think that's unlikely so VOTE: Dunnstral instead. If Dwlee is scum in B, Lady probably is too.

Voting me after claiming that result is nonsense

[Dunnstral]

I will be told how many time 2 sequential votes are different. Like town scum town = 2
Town town scum scum = 1

And the demon vote alignment is considered in the result.

Basically there 2 scum on the wagon if Demon is scum and all 3 are on the wagon if Demon is town...I think?

Ah

Well, I control the demon lord vote, and I'm town, so that makes house scum in game B.

[Dunnstral]

I changed my mind, House isn't mafia in game b unless Dwlee is.

MegAzumarill (E-0):

Demon Lord

,

House

,

mastina

,

CheekyTeeky

,

T3

,

Radical Rat

,

Dwlee99

This would be 4 differences

MegAzumarill (E-0):

Demon Lord

,

House

,

mastina

,

CheekyTeeky

, T3, Radical Rat,

Dwlee99

One of T3 or Radical Rat being mafia here would be 4 differences

[Dunnstral]

Now sell me T3 scum in A, if you will

They were being awkward about the game being confusing when it wasn't, really

[Dunnstral]

But he revealed house as his partner then.

[Dunnstral]

You're right, RR can be either red or green with the same result

[Dunnstral]

@CheekyTeeky

Demon Lord doesn't have an alignment

So it's not necessarily House

[Dunnstral]

Demon Lord

, House,

mastina

,

CheekyTeeky

,

T3

, Radical Rat,

Dwlee99

Final wagon colors

Dwlee claiming could suggest House town

[Dunnstral]

That was a messy catch-up but I got there eventually.

And no, I don't have any idea on game A.

[Dunnstral]

I think his flip is likely to be more informative than the others for Game 1.

Explain?

[Dunnstral]

I consider Dunnstral claiming the Demon Lord a scumclaim.

Explain this too

[Dunnstral]

Dear Dunnstrsal,

You could've simply believed MegAzumarill was strongly likely to be Mafia in 2 games.

Or

Their Mafia flip was your way of confirming their town alignment elsewhere.

They claimed non-town in game b. I also used the vote so there was a possibility of eliminating meg in only game b.

[Dunnstral]

Or

Their Mafia flip was your way of confirming their town alignment elsewhere.

This doesn't make sense, both because it's untrue and it presumes that I don't know their alignment (so I'm not scum after all?)

[Dunnstral]

I didn't say I believed the jester claim

[Dunnstral]

Or

Their Mafia flip was your way of confirming their town alignment elsewhere.

This doesn't make sense, both because it's untrue and

it presumes that I don't know their alignment (so I'm not scum after all?)

Wait nevermind, perhaps I am incoherent. You couldn't confirm anything even if you were town/mafia or mafia/mafia.

I've never been this confused in a game, apologies.

Pedit

I didn't say I believed the jester claim

Then why did you vote them MegAzumarill?

I didn't like the fake claims

And it gave the chance to vote them out in just game b, but we ended up boting them out in both anyways

[Dunnstral]

I do think Dunn can be scum in game 2, but he (officially) wasn't on the Meg wagon. Assuming mastina isn't lying about being third party, and Cheeky isn't lying about her claim, House is the only other possible scum on the wagon.

House can be town or scum

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah dealing with this bullshit is also among the things I didn't really want to have to deal with. (it's not a "mastina must die", it's not quite "3p = acceptable loss", it's not any of the others I said previously, but it's among the things that any 3p claim will entail.)

I always call for the death of any 3p because they count against town majority.

You know this.

If you believe mastina's claim, particularly the bit about the wincon, then she pretty clearly would count TOWARDS a Town majority, not against. She needs scum eliminated just as much as we do, unless she's lying which should become pretty apparent later.

She only needs 1 mafia dead, and dwlee has already claimed. Granted she'll probably just townside anyway but there is no reason to do so other than not being eliminated right now

[Dunnstral]

So to get this straight:

Dunnstral has claimed town DL.
Mastina has claimed town siding 3p...?

Yes but the actual DL vote is unaligned

[Dunnstral]

Why did we give mafia an opportunity to do that?

Or actually, it's not even t3 based on earlier analysis, so just why

[Dunnstral]

@T3
What the hell happened there?

Basically this

[Dunnstral]

I don't think mastina is scum in game A, and believe the 3rd party claim in game B. I don't agree with their assertion that I should be lock scumreading certain slots. I would guess that RR is indeed scum in at least one of the games.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think mastina is scum in game A, and believe the 3rd party claim in game B. I don't agree with their assertion that I should be lock scumreading certain slots. I would guess that RR is indeed scum in at least one of the games.

[Dunnstral]

Well whoops.

According to the summary, Dunn is confscum in this game right?

no

[Dunnstral]

Also how about we eliminate in the group who keep quick elimming town for no reason? Because this game doesn't really make sense to me right now

[Dunnstral]

In game a I'm in a neighborhood with T3
Dwlee, RR, RCEnigma, House, Ircher

Ircher is still able to post and thinks that there are a lot of scum in the neighborhood due to low post count

[Dunnstral]

Game A is the normal. Idk why Dunn said it's a game A hood. It's a Game B hood.

yes this

[Dunnstral]

Because they claimed scum and there is no reason to not place the vote in just that game

Forgot that the normal was in night, we should eliminate Dwlee right now. There's nothing to analyze, Cheeky is dead

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Dunnstral]

It is there

[Dunnstral]

Radical Rat needs to die in both games

T3 needs to die in game A

If RR is scum in B, then T3 also needs to die in B

Dwlee isn't clear in A and it wouldn't be game throwing to play as they are. Not sure if we should elim there in A or not, leaning not right now

We should look at the Ircher wagon in game A.

[Dunnstral]

why are you so eager to kill him in A when he claimed town in A?

I also claim town in A fyi

[Dunnstral]

In game a I'm in a neighborhood with T3
Dwlee, RR, RCEnigma, House, Ircher
Ircher is still able to post and thinks that there are a lot of scum in the neighborhood due to low post count

Well either this is a lie or Jingle has once again fucked up Normal guidelines because per Normal guidelines, a neighbor should be required to flip as a Neighbor and neither House nor Ircher flipped as being a Neighbor.

A flip wouldn't show if it were a neighborizer, obviously, because the only one who'd show as the neighbor from a neighborizer is the neighborizer, but that's, what, seven names for a neighborhood? Not enough time to neighborize them all.

So I'm calling "Jingle why do you not do your bloody research" on this. Again. :P
(This is not the first theme game advertised as having "Normal Game mechanics" which then proceeded to have...a not-Normal game mechanic from Jingle in the 'Normal' game.)

(Kinda surprised Ircher didn't mention this tho. Ircher's a NRG member like me so he should've caught the fact that neighbors should flip as neighbors in a Normal game.)

I misspoke, it's in game B

[Dunnstral]

Also the neighborhood formed after night 1 I think

[Dunnstral]

Amy, Mastina, House and I are all town in our remaining games.

Mastina is 3rd party and I'm not scrambling to call Amy town

[Dunnstral]

I'm likely going to vote for Radical Rat before game B opens

[Dunnstral]

We can rule out any such nonsense of autoflipping scum for DL because that would require an outright lie by Dunn.

An outright lie by Dunn nets the only possible setup in Cheeky's result is scum House and scum T3 or scum RR with town House. An outright lie by Dunn means he's only partners with RR. Putting Dunn lying in astronomically low territory.

We might have #misunderstoodDunn, which nets RR and T3.

So we have #correctRR/Dunn which leads to the prevailing theory.

Long story short, here are the only universes I'll accept in no particular order

Amy and Alyssa
Amy and House
Dunn and Alyssa
Dunn and House
Dunn and RR
RR and T3 (pending confirmation from Dunn, this will likely be impossible)

Confirmation of what? I didn't lie

[Dunnstral]

I'm VT in A.

[Dunnstral]

It can't be house + T3 because it doesn't add up to that with the results, if I recall. It would have to be t3 and rr to make sense. Not sure why that is impossible.

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, so I was a Universal Backup, and I'm Cheeky now.

Dwlee wagon once again has 4 alignment changes. Before and after Demon Lord accounts for two, and mastina's hammer for three. So that's one change unaccounted for.

Dwlee99 (E-0):

Amy Dunne, Lady Chloe,

Demon Lord

, Dunnstral, T3, mastina,

If RR town, 4 changes

Just saw this. DL is unaligned so counts as 2 changes. Mastina counts as 1 change. Either T3 is a different alignment from me, or Amy is a different alignment from Lady Chloe.

[Dunnstral]

I think RR is lying though. The DL vote went from automatically being the first vote on the wagon regardless of vote time to being in the middle of the pack like a normal vote. This happened after Cheeky died. Or maybe the mod is just inconsistent?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not close to "obv scum" in game A. I've told you to go after the group who happily pushed out multiple townies.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Titus

[Dunnstral]

We're too far in to pretend to not know the voting mechanics, don't you think?

[Dunnstral]

He's also not commenting that from his perspective at least one of RR or Amy must be scum.

That is obvious

[Dunnstral]

Scum in game A are Titus, Amy, and then 1 more from the group who heavily pushed miselims and won't look inwards

[Dunnstral]

Amy is dead town in game A

classic

[Dunnstral]

We're too far in to pretend to not know the voting mechanics, don't you think?

[Dunnstral]

Game A is so hard ugh

It is not

[Dunnstral]

I know Dunn has a major bussing meta,

I think you are making things up

[Dunnstral]

Game A is so hard ugh

It is not

Okay, tell us who’s scum then.

I've told you where to look

[Dunnstral]

Why isn't Dunn being prodded? O_o

Because I'm posting

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Amy Dunne

[Dunnstral]

RR is legit UB. Please don't eliminate them.

I agree with this on reflection

[Dunnstral]

I don't have to vote with the demon lord though

[Dunnstral]

Do you have a reason to vote me beyond my role? Which is itself not a very good reason.

[Dunnstral]

Anyways, I told you guys multiple times to vote for the people who were fast pushing eliminations in a, but some of yall were bent on eliminating me for no real reason. Well, I was right. The past two eliminations before my own had all 3 mafia members voting on the wagon.

[Dunnstral]

Alright, so here is my preference for how Game 2 goes now.

Dunnstral is the best elimination choice here. Between him and Amy, I think he's much more likely to flip red, and Demon Lord is not only a very scary ability for scum to have, it messes with my wagon results. And I know I'm more than likely dead tonight, but on the off chance scum keeps me alive to frame me, I'd like to have as useful results as possible.

To that end, the vote order on Dunn should look like this:
mastina > Titus > T3 > House OR Alyssa > Amy

	1 change	2 changes	3 changes	4 changes
Dunnstral Scum	Wagon Town	Titus Scum	House/Alyssa Scum*	Titus AND House/Alyssa Scum*
Dunnstral Town	Impossible	Amy Scum	Titus Scum AND (Amy AND House/Alyssa Scum* OR Amy Scum)	Titus AND House/Alyssa Scum*

*Applies to whichever of House/Alyssa voted in the wagon

This does assume that Dunnstral was both truthful and accurate when claiming Demon Lord is unaligned, but structuring the wagon in this way gives us at least one confirmed scum to eliminate the following day, if I get to share my result.

If I die, I die, but if I live the game is pretty much solved.

You're not going to get a result, you're either dead or getting blocked. Cheeky outright died with nobody protecting them even though she was obviously telling the truth

[Dunnstral]

We have to work with the information we already have, not fish for new information in a way that obviously isn't going to work.

[Dunnstral]

Your "scumread" is puddle deep and was obviously fake in game a. I was barely following along but was still able to pick you out as scum in that game. I'm assuming that you're telling the truth about your role in this game and were clearly playing towards game a. But, uh, if you continue to push like you're in game a still, I will consider that a scum claim. Do you want to play the game or continue to push me for no reason?

[Dunnstral]

That's also why I'm voting Amy right now, because their read was clearly fake, I was just wrong about which game they were playing towards.

[Dunnstral]

Somebody explain to me why it is confirmed that there is scum between alyssa/house?

[Dunnstral]

House is setting up to push you tomorrow btw

[Dunnstral]

We being the town and not mastina, in fact

[Dunnstral]

@mastina, I'm not arguing this with you right now. We have Game B to solve.

I mean, I'm already voting Dunn.

He flips town, scum can ONLY include RR and either House or T3.

This game is lost if you let this elim go through RR.

[Dunnstral]

I wish I had thought to ask Cheeky about the conversations about the Universal Backup before she flipped, but I'm kinda struggling to see how this claim works unless he's scum with exactly Titus and nobody else.

With Dunnstral's role in the game, it's still a lot more likely that it's just him as scum, and then we can just go from there depending on who the remaining scum kill tonight.
If Dunnstral is town, then what the fuck was the point of that role?

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hard to believe that two people would both be scum in two separate games

I expect that the scumteams for all three games were fully randomized, but that still seems... odd.

It's a bit out there enough that it's probably just too improbable compared to the role just being genuine.

Here you go

Nothing has changed since then

Page 113 and all you've got is that I'm scum for being a double voter?

[Dunnstral]

And some gamblers fallacy too

[Dunnstral]

Lady Chloe has been killed in the Mini Theme! She was:

Spoiler: Mini Theme

Welcome, Lady Chloe to Triplicate Mafia: Carbon Paper. A love letter to Bureaucracy at its finest.

You are

Form 1040

, aligned with the Paperwork faction.

[Dunnstral]

tl;dr: disregard the three posts mastina just made, it is indeed amy + house

[Dunnstral]

And if I answer that, you will vote for somebody else?

[Dunnstral]

I don't intend for the DL vote to be on the final wagon unless necessary, I voted house so that I can be voting both of who I think the scum team is.