Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[Nathann]

The flavour is fun, I like it.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

Anyone who can correctly guess why StrangeMatter is scum gets a Day 1 pass from me.

[Nathann]

People love being snarky, huh. I was asking why did you think I decided to vote for StrangeMatter.

RH9, I've never played with StrangeMatter before, it's not a meta read. Say, is there any alignment-indicative information you can get from your question in 12, or is it just fluff?

[Nathann]

I was asking why did you think I decided to vote for StrangeMatter.

umm... that's not what it sounds like

What did you think I was asking? What colour is a scum role PM?

I'm feeling the faintest traces of townpings from ADSE's (sorry, not typing that whole thing out) 34. Even though I don't really agree with it. Also about half of this playerlist has hit my "seems like purposefully trying to prolong RVS" scumtell so far, including the IC. Yay.

[Nathann]

I mean, yes. I would like the IC to be present in the game. You got me.

Pedit: I disagree with 39. Not sure if getting into an argument with you about it would be beneficial to anyone, but.

[Nathann]

VOTE: Cupcake Butterfly

A Dreary Saturday Evening (1): Greeting, A Dreary Saturday Evening

[Nathann]

I don't see why it's not beneficial to have an argument early.

That's not what I said, though. I was referring to

that

specific argument. An argument with RCEnigma about whether a slot making RVS posts with their first or second post (when there's already some non-RVS content) is prolonging RVS.

I wouldn't be able to get anything out of that argument, since I'd be arguing with the IC. Besides that, I'd be arguing about mafia theory, something that is pretty much completely separate from my own alignment here.

Would you have been able to tell all those things you listed in 49 from me arguing with the IC about mafia theory?

[Nathann]

Cool, okay. I disagree with RCEnigma's 39, because it was claiming that a slot's first or second post being an RVS post cannot be a prolongation of RVS in a game. I disagree with that because I think it doesn't matter which post in an individual ISO it is, if there's some attempt happening to get the game moving out of RVS, and the slot chooses to do an RVS post, they're trying to prolong RVS. Therefore his dislike of my 37 is bad and he should rethink all of his life decisions.

What does this argument tell you about my alignment, now?

[Nathann]

Also with STD I don't really want to say why I'm pushing them so much other than I've played with them before and there's something I'm keeping an eye on for.

Considering nobody cares enough to interact with my mystery vote on StrangeMatter -- why are you making such a big deal out of keeping an eye on Save The Dragons? If you had something you want to look out for due to meta, fine. But blasting it loudly like this is just giving a warning to scum!Save The Dragons. Feels more like you just want to convince the rest of us you're solving his alignment, rather than actually solving it.

[Nathann]

Is that some sorta sarcasm that's going over my head, or do you genuinely think 49 is townie?

[Nathann]

Well for one thing I find it harder with more experienced players to determine alignment, here I feel like it's a very out-there idea that I really don't agree with,

but I don't think that it can even come from scum

(though I have no clue about its utility towards scum if anyone would care to inform me about that, that would be great).

What does the bolded mean? Makes it sound like you think my idea cannot come from scum, which is not the vibe I'm really getting from the rest of your posting?

Also with STD I don't really want to say why I'm pushing them so much other than I've played with them before and there's something I'm keeping an eye on for.

Considering nobody cares enough to interact with my mystery vote on StrangeMatter -- why are you making such a big deal out of keeping an eye on Save The Dragons? If you had something you want to look out for due to meta, fine. But blasting it loudly like this is just giving a warning to scum!Save The Dragons. Feels more like you just want to convince the rest of us you're solving his alignment, rather than actually solving it.

If I were doing that, I would've already said what it is and they could easily avoid it so I don't get what you're trying to say with "warning" him. Also, I am trying to solve this slot, but I need content from him, which I'm pushing for, and something that I'm trying to also read into to see if they are scum or town at this point.

Going "hey, I am specifically watching Save The Dragons, I want to see content from him, there is something I am looking out for" is definitely a warning. Pushing for content is one thing (even though arguably you didn't even do that, since most of your posts about him consisted only of talking about reading him and now actually pushing him), but the way you kept presenting it to the rest of the game that you're

very definitely solving Save The Dragons

makes it read fake as hell.

[Nathann]

Please elaborate on how one purposely prolongs RVS, and for bonus points. How is that AI?

By making off-topic/RVS posts once there's actual game discussion happening. Arguably, all of 26, 27, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36 could be called prolonging RVS in my book. (Obviously I don't think it's a slam-dunk scumtell, considering I don't think there's *that* much scum in this game, but it can be a start.) It's AI because longer RVS = less solving = better gamestate for scum.

Is that some sorta sarcasm that's going over my head, or do you genuinely think 49 is townie?

Assuming this is to me.. no, it’s not sarcasm. It read as a concerned townie post.

It was to you. Concerned about... what? Like, what about that post is townie?

[Nathann]

Strange Matter/Nathann exchange is a lot of words about nothing. I need to read how experienced players are harder to read?

Is that really all you've taken away from the exchange?

[Nathann]

2. I have no idea how else I'm supposed to put this because right now THAT'S where I want to focus and read.

You weren't supposed to put it at all, that's the point... Yelling about how you have this one and only player you want to focus on makes you look performative and scummy... But I can drop the convo, obviously neither of us is budging.

[Nathann]

Concerned townie post: “I’m just worried about scum *insert thing to be concerned about, but not really caring about here* “

How does 49 convey this?

[Nathann]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I genuinely don't get it. I don't see how they were worried there.

[Nathann]

VOTE: RH9

If he had said that he wanted to see something AI from his question, or reaction test, or *something*, I would've considered that town!indicative. "Getting conversation started" feels more likely to be a scum entry to me than a town one.

Besides that, I really hate his interaction with StrangeMatter. First he just threw shade at them, then voted them when prompted, with very... off reasoning. It seemed like he was presenting it as almost orginal thought, while StrangeMatter had been decently grilled about it, and they've already said they're not going to talk about what they were looking for in Save The Dragons. If he had been reading, it would've been very obvious the conversation wouldn't have gone anywhere. And the unvote is... Similarly bad.

[Nathann]

Yes, I agree with the last statement. Does this count as interacting with your mystery vote?

Not really, considering it wasn't a mystery by the time of that post.

Re Salsa: no, my vote on StrangeMatter wasn't RVS. I feel like I explained it way too many times by now, but their first two posts gave a *huge* vibe of wanting to look like they're sorting while doing things that hinder that sorting. (Like giving a warning who they're keeping an eye out on.)

[Nathann]

I'm liking RH9 as town for 111.

Why? That post seemed like one of the worse ones he's made to me.

[Nathann]

Greetings, do you have any actual thoughts on people's alignments? Same question to Scorpious, actually.

[Nathann]

Yes, I agree with the last statement. Does this count as interacting with your mystery vote?

Not really, considering it wasn't a mystery by the time of that post.

Re Salsa: no, my vote on StrangeMatter wasn't RVS. I feel like I explained it way too many times by now, but their first two posts gave a *huge* vibe of wanting to look like they're sorting while doing things that hinder that sorting. (Like giving a warning who they're keeping an eye out on.)

This still fails to explain your thought progression on Save The Dragons.

I didn't know I had one? I've only mentioned him with regards to him being mentioned by StrangeMatter. I never expressed my own read on him.

If you meant to ask about StrangeMatter, I still find them suspicious. I'm just aware my conversation with them has run its course, and I'll be focusing my attention elsewhere for a bit.

[Nathann]

Strange Matter/Nathann exchange is a lot of words about nothing. I need to read how experienced players are harder to read?

Is that really all you've taken away from the exchange?

So, is the answer to this a yes, or...?

[Nathann]

So talking about a player's tone and motivation is talking about nothing, but someone not reading all of the mod posts is AI. Right.

[Nathann]

You both did, and I didn’t say it %100 made you snicklefritz, it’s just something that i wanted to question.

You are coming off a little sensitive, though.

I mean, sure. I question negative reads on my slot that don't make sense to me. Call it sensitive if you want.

In other news, I have potentially bad reasons to think ADSE is town. The way they spew takes without any explanation or fluff added seems like they don't care too much about their image (otherwise they would've fabricated some thought process with them), which in my experience more often comes from town. This is potentially bad because this tell isn't that useful with experienced players, and they said they're an alt, so.

Also, I got some townie pings from Save The Dragons. Mostly the fact that, when I first read, I also thought Greeting's tone there is bad, and something something mindmeld. By this point, I'm not sure I still think his tone is scummy there, but Save The Dragons can stay above the null line for now.

Anyone else getting the feeling that Galron is trying to ask all the right questions and seems to be solving, but his heart just isn't in it?

[Nathann]

When he's trying to get townread as town or as scum? What alignment was he in 2250? Is his play here actually similar to that game? Come on, give a bit more info.

[Nathann]

You practically described Galron when he is trying to get townread. I seen it before in Mini Theme 2250.

So why this comment if he's not even sounding that similar?

[Nathann]

For the record, I don't have a problem with my post being interpreted as "Galron trying to be townread", since that is more or less what I meant. It seems like he's trying to ask the right questions, but it's just not... quite there.

As to how RH9 saw that being similar to his play in another game where he was scum, then decided the plays aren't the same, and then still townreads Galron is beyond me. RH9, why is Galron town?

[Nathann]

i think galron's town

Enlighten me?

[Nathann]

RH9, I'll try to make this clearer:

You said you think Galron is town, and as per 211, it's because he's not talking mechanics and seems less opportunistic. While I don't think that's really a good way to read someone, I'm not sure I get why town!you, who's allegedly townreading Galron, posts 194 - this post seems like you agree with my scumlean on them and are trying to encourage me. Why did you post it?

[Nathann]

I hate 251 and 253 for kind of obvious reasons, but I'll let Greeting respond first.

[Nathann]

i think galron's town

Enlighten me?

i played a game where galron just asked banal questions and was scum

i played another game where galron was actually invested and played kinda more like this and was ubertown

Are those games any interesting? Mind saying what they are?

I am kind of ??? at you using meta to read other players, while not using meta to townread me. But maybe I'm misremembering at what point you townread me in The Coalition game. And maybe I should check if my plays are even similar.

[Nathann]

Do you "think" anything about me then?

[Nathann]

Huh? Greeting hasn't posted since your vote.

[Nathann]

What does 266 even mean??

[Nathann]

What does 266 even mean??

I forgot that the SK could exist.

I got that you were saying you forgot about the possibility of an SK, I'm just not sure how that relates. The explanation for "I think you aren't Mafia, but I don't know whether you're SK" is... fine, I guess, but my problem then is why you're pointing that out with Galron, while you don't seem to be pointing that out with your other townread. What makes you think Galron might be SK, that you don't also extend to me?

[Nathann]

+1 on wanting Scorpious to actually give some thoughts out. I know people love to do their reaction tests and whatnot, but this one seems so bizarre I genuinely can't think of what he's getting from it. The only relevant post Inbetween the vote and unvote was me calling his reasons for voting bad, without even saying why. Is that what he was looking for? How does that play into his read on... anyone? I have no idea.

I do agree Greeting's vote there is kind of lazy, but I can buy it being town!motivated and him trying to get some info out and solve.

[Nathann]

The above is to say that I am currently leaning town on Greeting, if that wasn't clear.

[Nathann]

I don't feel scuminess from Salsabil, mind telling me what you see?

[Nathann]

Re 292: I can see that, nice catch. I'd like to see what Salsabil returns with before doing anything there, I guess.

Re 294: Dislike this post. Scorpius is apparently a very experienced player; I don't think those can be townbinned on the basis of "too abrasive", especially considering he hasn't even been all that abrasive. Feels like an overly hasty read.

+1 on wanting Scorpious to actually give some thoughts out. I know people love to do their reaction tests and whatnot, but this one seems so bizarre I genuinely can't think of what he's getting from it. The only relevant post Inbetween the vote and unvote was me calling his reasons for voting bad, without even saying why. Is that what he was looking for? How does that play into his read on... anyone? I have no idea.

I do agree Greeting's vote there is kind of lazy, but I can buy it being town!motivated and him trying to get some info out and solve.

I’ve been playing mafia for way to long my friend. It’s not as “bizarre” as you say it is. Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t make it AI.

After probably over 100 of these games, you see, learn, and do things that may seem “bizarre” at the time. But I learned what I needed to, and I’m moving on. I’m not about to explain my actions on D1 with a week to go to deadline just to appease anyone either.

I didn't say it's AI. I didn't call you scum over it, I just wanted you to actually speak what's on your mind.

If you learned what you needed to and you're moving on, why are you refusing to explain what you apparently see? You're talking about "appeasing others", but this is a game of conversation. Judging by your later post, you found my post there scummy. I genuinely don't see how you found it scummy - either you present your thought process and we can actually play the game, or I'm forced to draw my own conclusions.

[Nathann]

What does 266 even mean??

I forgot that the SK could exist.

I got that you were saying you forgot about the possibility of an SK, I'm just not sure how that relates. The explanation for "I think you aren't Mafia, but I don't know whether you're SK" is... fine, I guess, but my problem then is why you're pointing that out with Galron, while you don't seem to be pointing that out with your other townread. What makes you think Galron might be SK, that you don't also extend to me?

If you want, I could.

The question wasn't whether you can; the question was why you didn't. I'd like if you answered it. And do you often evade answering questions by making evading comments like these?

[Nathann]

OK. I just think that your scumhunting felt more Town than SK.

...What about it felt more town than SK? How does one's scumhunting even feel SK-like?

[Nathann]

VOTE: Scorpious

RH9's "pocketing" post towards me is one of those posts that I have never seen scum make. The rest of his posts are... infuriating, but I'm wondering if it's my own bias that wants me to keep voting him rather than him being scummy. I'll decide tomorrow.

[Nathann]

I’ll be active, and answer whatever you need,because I feel signing up for a game is a commitment to everyone else in the game.

Answer 287 then?

[Nathann]

Re 345 - there we go. That wasn't that difficult, was it.

I have... multiple issues with that post. First is that that kind of reaction test is very bad. Scum is likely to jump onto a weak vote, sure, but you know who else is likely to jump on it? Town. Because it was a weak vote. Voting someone because "I have the most posts, and they're saying they need more from me to sort me" is obviously flawed as hell - you have *the most*, doesn't mean you have *enough*. And most posts =/= most content.

Then, you said that scum is likely to make a case out of a weak vote... which is something I never did. I just mentioned in passing how your reasoning for voting Greeting was horrible (which you admitted) and I didn't even vote you for it. And also you never did end up voting me, you just unvoted Greeting.

That said, I think most of my problems with you now are that of playstyle, not necessarily alignment.

VOTE: A Dreary Saturday Evening

I remember thinking some of their reads were lazy at

some

point. I probably can't be fucked to effort if half the game isn't playing.

[Nathann]

I can see the train of thought of "scum is more likely to take one bad vote and try to bullshit a whole case out it to make it look like they're actually solving," and I do agree. I just don't think that's anywhere close to what I did.

My other games usually weren't this slow, I think this one is an outlier.

[Nathann]

I would be down for policying Not_Mafia if we decide to go in that direction.

[Nathann]

Hey friends, this is going to be a semi-prodge from me. I'm busy today, and I got sick, so my energy is completely sapped. I did skim a bit, and I don't feel like changing my vote; 387 is not exactly a shining beacon of towniness. I Will be here properly in some... 18 hours. Cheers.

[Nathann]

Okay, I'm somewhat alive, let's see.

The generalized gamestate take is in a game as sluggish as this one there's probably a handful of scum in the low-content slots but sorting them is impossible unless they actually start contributing it's more or less a crapshoot. There are situations where it can be active scum while town is apathetic and lurks it out, but it feels like there's a little too much discord between the active players for that to be the case.

I'm not sure I like this post, coupled with the vote on RH9 in the previous one. It seems like he's saying that he feels like this

isn't

the case with active scum and apathetic town, but then he votes one of the more active slots? Not saying that he can't have scumreads inside active players if that's his general view on the gamestate, but it feels odd considering he didn't elaborate on it at all.

I find the wiki links in 390 very funny. Gut is telling me this is townie taking the piss. I know my gut's not to be trusted there, but it's funny.

And Three, how's reading going? I notice that you're online but you haven't posted so I am assuming that you are reading.

I don’t like when people do this. So am Into assume you are keeping tabs on everyone like this?

Does this "not like" mean "I dislike it but I think it's NAI" or "I find it scummy"?

VOTE: ADSE

Are we going to get an explanation?

This post feels like busywork... I think any votes on ADSE are pretty self-explainatory at this stage of the game, have you seen their slot?

Bells go off in my head when I read “skimmed”. The fact that you are ingesting the game whole and not coming at us with a “read” from a skim makes me lean town on you and scum on Jacket.

Uh oh, I think I said I skimmed earlier...

But something I gotta say now is that I don't understand how some players have so many town reads. Because the more I read the more I was just like...how? So many players have scummy tones or are making accusations with nothing to back it up or are making serious votes while giving zero effort in actually getting their scum reads eliminated. It's bizarre.

Considering I'm probably one of those people, I'll answer this for myself - in gamestates like those, where a lot of people appear scummy for certain reasons and there's not much transparent townieness, the bar for a townlean lowers. I mostly do it for my own sanity, since I feel like I need to have

some

townreads to properly function.

Three, do you have any completed scumgames on the site? I'm digging you tonally so far, but you strike me as an experienced player, so I'd like to check that.

After all, if you don't act too defensive, there is nothing to be too worried about.

What does acting defensive have to do with this whole story?

Three might be right in 421, seems like a more logical conclusion than mine. Linking posts would at least make the whole thing easier to follow. Hm.

Bottom of page 17, this game is giving me a headache, I will be back in a short while.

[Nathann]

Right, this game exists.

This post feels like busywork... I think any votes on ADSE are pretty self-explainatory at this stage of the game, have you seen their slot?

I know this was a rhetorical question, but I'd still like a comment, Scorpious. Why did you ask him to explain the ADSE vote? Were you actually expecting anything from it?

[Nathann]

I dig 425. Maybe the one thing I'd disagree with is the StrangeMatter townread, but hey, I'm not married to my suspicion there.

I think Jacket replaced in. Got his red pm, and was totally lost because SF had like 2 posts. So he skimmed looking for any mention
Of SF and much to his dismay, found nothing, and is having a tough time generating content because of it. This slot feels… sus, but I’m just a boomer trying to talk like the cool kids.

Why would he be having a tough time generating content specifically because of nobody mentioning Salsabil?

What is 443. Why is Jacket being voted because of

that

.

Oh hey, Save The Dragons is in this game. He's feeling much lower energy than I remember seeing town!him last time we played together. Might actually be scum there.

I just sneezed 3 times in a row, fucking hell.

Wait...for what, exactly? It's 4 and a half days to the deadline.

For more info. You think that’s little time? To me this means I have at least two more days until final wagons are forming.

I won't go into detail on why this is very newbish and antitown behaviour, but I do want an explanation on why you don't want to out your reads now. Or more specifically, why do you not want them to influence the game and/or for others to potentially correct them. This "I'll wait until there's wagons formed and

then

I will actually play" stance is impossible to tell apart from not having stances at all.

RH9, do you have any reads? All your recent posts feel like talking about nothing.

They proposed you [Galron] were town because you were too abrasive in some posts (which I'd argue not but that's less important here). 294

Incorrect, they proposed Scorpious was town for abrasiveness.

Hm, is Jacket doing that tell when someone replaces into a scum slot and then shades their predecessor? The Amished or something? Could be. Not sure I have much of a read on Jacket otherwise.

Okay, I'm up to where I started posting. Yay.

[Nathann]

As it is, I'm doubting myself on that push anyway.

Okay, fair enough. Mind telling me what's got you doubting this push now? In my readthrough of the last few pages, I got the feeling RH9 has gotten worse, not better.

[Nathann]

Okay, give some content then?

[Nathann]

Okay, you remain a scumread then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nathann]

That content will mostly be explaining why ADSE is scum and why slots like STD Cupcake and Greeting are town.

I'm especially interested in the towncase on Save The Dragons.

507 strikes me as goodposting. I've been feeling bad vibes from Scorpious for a while now, and while I've been chalking them up to playstyle clash (because it wouldn't be the first time that's happened with an older player coming back to the site), I could be wrong.

Though, if he were scum, I imagine his buddies would be trying to get the ADSE counterwagon through or at least make it viable? And I'm not explicitly scumreading anyone on it right now, and I don't get the feeling it's being egged on from the sidelines. Hm.

[Nathann]

Wait, Jacket replaced Salsabil? Then scratch my earlier point how Jacket was trashing his own slot when he was talking about disliking Almost50.

[Nathann]

Probably the same reason they haven't been doing anything else - I reckon they don't care about this game.

[Nathann]

why does scum do what i've done so far

This is an awful line of thinking - why does town do what you've done so far?

Greeting's readslist is full of pretty colours an has me on the top - can I just townbin this for effort without reading?

[Nathann]

@Scorpious, I'd like a response to 481. And why are you pairing up me and RH9 the way you are?

[Nathann]

Were you expecting any kind of answer that wouldn't have boiled down to "they're not here / tactical lurking"?

What gives you the idea my vote is being moved with no real intent? Do you believe I'm not trying to solve the slots I vote?

[Nathann]

Okay, I decided to actually read The Big Post.

The first thing I want to respond to is your observation of my 353. There is meta in play, kind of. Like individual meta changes, so does the general meta of the site as a whole. Playing mafia at whatever was Scorpious's time here was different than it is today. So it can be awkward for old players returning and being thrown into a game where a lot of their old ways simply aren't done like that anymore. That is what I meant, because it wouldn't be the first time I was incorrectly reading an old player who rolled town because they were acting "weird" when they were playing the way they used to. But of course, nothing is stopping older players from rolling scum, which is why I said I could be wrong.

While I was reading your analysis of Cupcake Butterfly, I was reminded just how many things he's gotten wrong this game - asking about my thought process on Save The Dragons at the time I didn't have one, missing the fact Greeting said they're a newbie, mixing up who ADSE is talking about... If this were me, this would be scum!indicative for me, since I don't read carefully when I'm scum, and I'm more likely to make factual errors like that. Now, I

know

Cupcake Butterfly is not me, and his playstyle might be completely different than my own, but I can't help but notice.

I strongly dislike the accusation that Jacket is using RCEnigma's "mod confirmed status" to be pushing his own ideas, considering you linked 429 with that. Because that's very much not what's happened there, he's mentioning disliking RH9's reaction to something RCEnigma said. Those are... wildly different. This is the only point in your readslist that genuinely made me worried, but considering it's the only one... I guess I can let it go for now.

I like the point with regards to RH9 - some of his contributions in spectator threads have been much more elaborate and analytical, contrasted here where he's had... 2 or 3 reads, maybe? And I don't buy in what way is the prod timer supposed to be relevant to that

at all

, this is a pretty short game, and it's been moving very slowly.

These are the only things I found I have something interesting to comment on; everything else feels okay. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[Nathann]

Not sure how much I like the fact ADSE has broken the idea of their alt once they're threatened with a yeet. Surely they could've realized even before the game started that they were likely to be under fire if they post as little as possible?

Dislike that Scorpious didn't answer my 542, could vote there still. And still not a fan of StrangeMatter nor RH9.

[Nathann]

Were you expecting any kind of answer that wouldn't have boiled down to "they're not here / tactical lurking"?

What gives you the idea my vote is being moved with no real intent? Do you believe I'm not trying to solve the slots I vote?

I missed this.

I guess, no..? I don’t really know how to answer that. I don’t tend to ask questions with any real explanation of the response.

I’m more of the school of thought that if you’re going to bounce around with voting. Why even bother with the ones prior to where you land ultimately? They weren’t significant they were just kinda plopped and moved around.

The more you move your vote the more persuadable you seem imo.

Okay, so... you're telling me you asked the question without thinking what a possible response could be or how useful it would be?

I bothered because at the time, that is who I was solving and suspecting. I can see you're of different school of thought, you didn't answer my actual question - do you just dislike what I did or do you find it scummy?

[Nathann]

I'm kind of shocked anyone could have me as top town right now.

With regard to Scorpious: the big brain Slayer's_Gambit of 345 is the type of play I almost never see scum making. People always end up paranoid of it and scum usually end try to justify their actions in a conventional way, rather than claiming "I was being scummy on purpose!!". His earlier posts had good questioning and a healthy dose of paranoia toward other players, they weren't bad by any means, so it's honestly hard for me to believe he'd make a weak vote "accidentally" and then try to cover it up with that excuse as scum. I don't really get the hate he's getting for that. I didn't like his push on me, but I feel like he could have just been legitimately misinterpreting the post I made when I was entering the game and getting hung up on my word choice.

Not sure how I feel about this, and the general townbinning Scorpious for doing that gambit. Like, he's an experienced played, and he said himself he likes doing that gambit to sort. Which means it's not a one-time thing he came up with here, it's something he's used to doing, so it's more likely he'd attempt it regardless of alignment. I don't see what's stopping scum from doing a "gambit" there, in hopes of a townie correctly calling out what was a terrible vote in order to seem proactive.

Maybe this isn't that signifcant, considering he never did end up voting me, but eh.

[Nathann]

Reading the Three/Jacket argument, I was feeling Three is looking better from it, up until the point he started insisting that Jacket offer some rebuttal on why he's not scum with Scorpious. It's just... I'm trying to think of in what way would a person be able to respond to accusations like those without it being a bunch of wifom garbage, or what there is to gain from reading a person's response there.

[Nathann]

My vote is on RH9

Do you intend to move it anytime soon?

[Nathann]

Hm. Based on the sluggishness of the wagons at the end of the day, and based on the fact that Galron was voting Scorpious, I think Scorpious is likely not groupscum. Will try to look at associates later when I have the time.

[Nathann]

I think an SK is more likely than two Vigilantes, statistically speaking, but math was never my strong suit.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

I want to vote back here before I start re-assesing; I have some bullshit to do tomorrow morning so I'll focus after that.

[Nathann]

At least three including or excluding Galron?

Including, this setup cannot have 4 mafia.

[Nathann]

Three was your second read from the top, what changed?

pedit: Scorpious, dude...

[Nathann]

You

are

aware he's dead, right?

[Nathann]

Next, I want to ask what Three and StrangeMatter did wrong?

Assuming this is @ me: from what I remember of Day 1, StrangeMatter didn't end up doing a whole lot. And I think there was an effort to push them towards EoD, which I recall thinking that it wasn't a terrible idea, so I'm sheeping my past self until I get the time to really sit down and get into this game.

[Nathann]

I was pushing them but then I looked at their recently completed scumgame and doubted it.

Mind giving me the tl;dr when you can?

[Nathann]

How much of this game's important content will I lose if I skip all of Jacket and Three's shitfight? I'll probably end up reading it anyway, because I hate myself, but it's nice to dream.

[Nathann]

I skimmed Galron's ISO. Not much worth mentioning, guy's interactions were pretty bland and there's nothing I'd feel confident pointing out as strongly SvS or TvS. Except for the game-long vote on Galron, I only now realized he was parked there the entire Day 1. I think that that is very unlikely to come from a partner. I'd assume that, if scum were deciding to RVS their buddy, they'd look for an opportunity to jump off as soon as possible, because if it happened that their buddy actually started getting votes, and they were to jump off

then

, they'd look absolutely horrible. Coupled with the fact that the wagons at EoD1 gave me a strong not-SvT gut feeling, I'm decently confident in saying Scorpious is not groupscum.

In somewhat related news, 139 is interesting. I don't know Salsabil's meta very well, but I kind of doubt her first serious vote of the game would be on a partner like that. So that would mean that *checks notes* Jacket is not groupscum either.

Heh, I may end up not needing to read the shitfight after all.

[Nathann]

But if you want something else to look at, take a look at 223 231 235 239 and tell me if you think it makes sense as being partnered with Galron.

Hm. I would say that it's not impossible for that to be distancing, but it's definitely not my first place to look at. It would maybe make sense if Scorpious saw that his partner Galron made a read on him that's nonsense and tried to do some damage control, but again, I'd need a bit more to be sold to vote there. I ctrl+F'ed "Scorp" in Galron's ISO, and he did end up suspecting him throughout of Day 1 in a way that I don't think is common for scum to do to their partners. What's the endgame here, tunnel your partner throughout the whole game and do nothing else? I don't find it likely.

[Nathann]

(I could totally see Scorpious as being the one who shot Galron, though. Or possibly StrangeMatter, because while I don't think they're groupscum their play kind of fits the profile of an SK trying to go under the radar)

I guess, I'm not sold on StrangeMatter's slot being non-groupscum personally, but that does fit with the most likely play of an SK. Scorpious would make sense as SK if they would operate under the "shoot the person scumreading me the most" strategy, but Scorpious's play on Day 1 doesn't really give me a "trying to go under the radar" feel.

[Nathann]

(I could totally see Scorpious as being the one who shot Galron, though. Or possibly StrangeMatter, because while I don't think they're groupscum their play kind of fits the profile of an SK trying to go under the radar)

I guess, I'm not sold on StrangeMatter's slot being non-groupscum personally, but that does fit with the most likely play of an SK. Scorpious would make sense as SK if they would operate under the "shoot the person scumreading me the most" strategy, but Scorpious's play on Day 1 doesn't really give me a "trying to go under the radar" feel.

[Nathann]

Scorpious (5) [E-2]: Galron, Save The Dragons, Not_Mafia, Three, A Dreary Saturday Evening

Meh. If SK!Scorpious were shooting on his wagon, Galron does make sense as the most likely shot I think, the others are either dead, lurkers, or in a distracting 1v1. But obviously this is all far out there, and knowing my luck we probably don't have an SK anyway and I'm wasting my precious brainpower, but oh well.

[Nathann]

I think the read combined with 178 is potentially partner-indicative.

I find it ever so slightly anti-indicative, considering I'm not sure scum goes "my partner is Town, Actually" and then the only thing they offer for proof of that is some vague meta. That said, I don't like Save The Dragons as a whole (alignment-wise, nothing personal), and I believe our IC still owes us an explanation for why he's obvtown, so.

[Nathann]

I understand. So StrangeMatter is getting voted for 'lack of content', Three is for 'bad faith' arguments, and Jacket for telling the Vig to shoot N_M and 'coordinating a mislim' on ADSE.

This feels like shitposting. Where is the promised VCA?

[Nathann]

You got two players killed over playstyle and both flipped town. Not only were you wrong, you went after LHF and didn't let either of them claim. I refuse to believe you're town here. You don't get to fuck up this badly and hide behind "but they were policy eliminations!" without actually putting in the effort to actually try to read those slots.

I decided to read, and as predicted, it's making me hate myself. Three, is this something you seriously believe? Jacket was by far not the only person on the ADSE wagon (actually he wasn't on wagon at all, but you get my point), and the Vigilante wasn't bound to listen to him when he said to shoot Not_Mafia. How can you pin both of those deaths on Jacket?

[Nathann]

Then vote Scorpius. Look at how Day 1 ended, that was not a town-driven elimination.

I will need some serious explanation for this.

A Dreary Saturday Evening

(7) [HAMMER]: Nathann,

Cupcake Butterfly

,

RCEnigma

, RH9, Greeting, Scorpious,

Not_Mafia

Scorpious (5) [E-2]:

Galron

, Save The Dragons, Three,

A Dreary Saturday Evening

Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter

I coloured in the flips and the IC. Judging by your 425 (because I don't think you've said otherwise), you have a townread on both me and Greeting. Assuming you're correct, that's 5/7 people on that wagon town from your PoV, with the first 3 being town. On the contrary, the only flipped scum was firmly on the Scorpious wagon. By what logic did you come to the conclusion that the ADSE wagon was the one that was scum-driven? Or that it wasn't town-driven?

[Nathann]

Okay, I did skip a bit of the shitfighting at page 30 because I saw some lowkey personal attacks and I am very much not in the mood. I skimmed Cupcake Butterfly's ISO, not much gained from it, except for the vague wonder if it could have been a fearkill? Taly is a somewhat known player, right? Not sure who it would be a fearkill

from

, though.

My coffee is gone. I'm going for a walk. I think I like Jacket for town. Cheers.

[Nathann]

I'm not voting out RCEnigma or Nathann today.

I find this amusing because it implies you'd maybe want to vote RCEnigma tomorrow.

Hi Looker.

[Nathann]

If I were to go for superficial and lazy VCA, I'd go for RH9. If I am right about the wagons being TvT, then it's probably likely that scum was dispersing their votes around. And RH9 is the only person on that wagon I have no reason to think is town.

But that's superficial and lazy.

[Nathann]

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads...

Are we reading the same game? I can see Scorpious and Jacket being consensus townreads, but I don't remember you being townread, let alone that being consensus.

Also, why are you supposedly fine with Jacket being considered town here? Why are you trusting his RH9 read?

[Nathann]

I don't necessarily think you're scum right now? I'm not gonna vote you. Frankly, I'm putting off solving you and going through my bigger suspects first because your argument with Jacket gives me a headache. I'm questioning you, yes, because I didn't understand that post from what I know of your thoughts this game. Sorry if you're feeling frustrated, I didn't mean to fan the flames or anything. :/

[Nathann]

Can you answer my 771 when you can, please? From what I saw of VCA, Scorpious looked unaligned with Galron to me, could you expand on that? Or link to where you have if you have.

[Nathann]

I find it kinda weird that Three was there to write an AtE-y post at me immediately, but as soon as I asked a game relevant question, he's gone. I don't like activity-based arguments that much, but I can't help but notice.

First instinct is that RH9 volunteering his claim openly like that is townie, considering I feel like scum would want to put it off so that they can better figure out if they need to claim power role or not. Dunno if he's got enough experience to be able to fake it, though.

Looker isn't impressing. Don't see a reason this slot isn't some flavour of scum trying to skate by.

[Nathann]

Well, I'm around. What do you think about my idea that scum!RH9 isn't likely to offer a VT like he did? Thoughts on who could be scum besides him?

[Nathann]

How is RH9 a town but Greeting is a not sure?

[Nathann]

But... the post with the colours...

[Nathann]

But the colours!!

[Nathann]

I don't know. All of those reads seem like reasonable mistakes to make to me. And I think I'm mindmelding with him tomorrow, his PoE feels similar to mine.

[Nathann]

Well, that's unfortunate. Hope for the best, but I would lie if I said I have faith in the flip.

For the record, I did read the posts before deadline. And the conclusion I had come to was that Scorpious was not groupscum, because it took so much dragging to actually get ADSE's wagon over the line, with at least one groupscum already on Scorpious. And if Scorpious was really part of the gang, they wouldn't have even gotten to that point.

Like, I wasn't trying to tilt you, I was genuinely trying to look into your thoughts because we were coming to the opposite conclusions.

[Nathann]

This doesn't really make me feel better about Looker's slot, but I'm yet to read in detail everything he's posted. Though I doubt Looker and Three are aligned, so if Three flips red, there's that at least.

Kind of odd that Greeting wasn't posting at all from when Scorpious voted Three and incorrectly called out E-2 in 872, but he's there within an hour and a half of Looker accidentally hammering in 940. Should check Greeting's activity patters at some point to see if that is plausible.

[Nathann]

I'm interested to see Nathann and STD flesh out their suspicions, but, again, kinda just got here and started playing.

Assuming you're asking about your slot - my early suspicions were that StrangeMatter is spending more energy making sure everyone thinks that they're sorting Save The Dragons rather than actually sorting him, or anyone for that matter. Then they basically disappeared, then you replaced in and continued that tradition, and

then

an accidental(?) hammer dropped and I decided to take a break over the Night phase.

RCEnigma, is massclaim a good idea here? Considering the shortened deadline, we should get to it if we're planning to.

[Nathann]

VOTE: Looker

Weren't you thinking the slot isn't scum? Is that for the hammer, or should I stop being lazy and actually read?

[Nathann]

The game isn't lost yet, so I don't think we should be calling it already. If you do have a claim order in mind, you should maybe tell us what it is? Like I said, slower game, shorter deadline, I don't wanna waste half the day on massclaiming.

It's 50/50 since std,looker,Scorpius,jacket contains 2 town but also both scum.

Both?

[Nathann]

Yes? Unless you're claiming scum here?

Math isn't my strong suit, but isn't 2 groupscum + 1 SK = 3 scum left?

[Nathann]

It's 2 scum and a third party. They aren't the same and aren't going about the game the same way. I can't feasibly remove you as possible SK but I can elim your slot as not!scum.

Right, gotcha. I just call everyone scum and refer to mafia as groupscum, so I was confused for a second there.

[Nathann]

I'm a strong believer in morale in mafia. And when the IC enters the Day saying "I'm ready to lose the game", that's a self-fulfilling prophecy right there. I will give you that it's fairly trivial to fake as scum, so you have my permission to consider it NAI.

Scorpious, why the thought you need to reread the interactions with the dead

now

? We had a scumflip Yesterday. The only reading-into interactions with them I can find is 796 and 813 (ignoring the attempted self-clear), and you never voted either of those people or really attempted to further the push there at all.

[Nathann]

VT here. Guess this makes some things easier, though it also turns out I misread some stuff.

[Nathann]

I guess I have to properly read the Jacket/Three interactions. I thought I saw Jacket softing Vigilante, which is partly why I wasn't paying too much attention to him.

Scorpious, do you mind actually responding to my 981? And please tell me you have better reason to scumread me than "he said the game isn't lost yet".

[Nathann]

Mmm who killed greeting is actually kind of important. I could see the teams being either Scorpius + Jacket or Rh9 + Looker.

I don't think there is a way to know for sure? The other kill might have gone onto the SK, saved by a Doc (we have an IC after all), or they could've doubled up.

Why do you think Scorpious is scum? I'm not gonna say I

love

his contributions today, far from it, but not quite confirmed scum to me.

[Nathann]

You would have to show me the soft.

If there's a vig, please shoot not_mafia.

This, followed with Not_Mafia dying from what really seemed like a Vigilante shot. It made sense in my head.

[Nathann]

ctrl+F'ing "Jacket" in Scorpious's ISO, the townread does seem very out of the blue. So much so I'd rather say it implies that Jacket

isn't

partnered with Scorpious and this is him leaving a false trail for when he's dead. But, I need to give Jacket a second look anyway.

[Nathann]

You called him scum, obviously that's where you messed up.

I'm just annoyed because I really thought I had found some anti-associatives for Scorpious and Jacket, plus that the way the EoD wagons were playing out suggested TvT. The team would have to be exactly Looker + RH9 if I hadn't messed up anywhere there, and that's not even thinking about the SK, which I have no clue how to look for.

[Nathann]

I stand right now as RH9 as my SK read and Nathann as maf.

Explain the read on me and actually answer my question, maybe?

[Nathann]

"Trying so hard to look townie" by saying that the game isn't lost yet. And telling me it has nothing to do with morale when the only confirmed town we had at the time entered the Day with "I'm ready to lose". Okay.

Sure, you don't "need" to explain anything to me. You entered the Day saying how you're going to reread interactions with the dead because that's what you're strong at (Why didn't you do that Yesterday then?), and then you proclaim me to be groupscum based on... telling the IC to not throw in the towel? A mysterious slip that's apparently damning, but you don't even feel like pointing it out when the IC is thinking I'm not groupscum? And none of those reads have anything to do with rereading the dead.

Like, sure. Don't explain anything to me. I'll draw my own conclusions, then.

[Nathann]

VOTE: Scorpious

Fine, makes the job easier for me.

[Nathann]

Also leaning toward Looker over STD as scum based on your vote.

Leaning toward an unconfirmed slot over a confirmed town slot being scum? Top gamesolving right here.

[Nathann]

If anyone needs me to spell out why Scorpious's posts towards me are dishonest garbage, let me know. I would still like to believe my VCA theory was right and that he's the SK, but I'm not sure if it really matters at this point.

[Nathann]

Why are you telling me I'm incorrect if I'm apparently scum?

Pedit: I try to not think about the game during the Night phase, why?

[Nathann]

I was pre-empting any "why didn't you reread the game during the Night phase?" questions.

[Nathann]

What does it matter what I think you are?

Telling me I'm incorrect implies you think I can be incorrect, that is that my thoughts are genuine. Any reason why you're willing to enter this discussion with me but don't feel like doing something as simple as pointing out where you think I scumslipped?

[Nathann]

I've rarely to never seen someone call scum "incorrect", but fine.

What about my motivation is scummy? All you've cited that you're voting me for is being LAMIST and a mysterious slip that apparently happened on Day 2.

[Nathann]

Scorpious is still ignoring me? Cool.

I realize that this isn't a traditional YeLo of "3 scum, 4 town" so a singular vote not getting quickhammered doesn't actually mean there must be scum within the voters. I'm not tilted today like I was last night, but. I'm annoyed because I still don't think Scorpious is mafia considering Galron and EoD1 wagons, but actually sorting whether he's a stubborn VT or SK is impossible considering he's still not explaining any of his thoughts. /rant

[Nathann]

Scum team is Nathann,Looker

Is this a real thought? Does he actually believe I have been trying my hardest to bus one of my partners for basically the whole game?

[Nathann]

Where am I ignoring you?

Be specific please.

What about my motivation is scummy? All you've cited that you're voting me for is being LAMIST and a mysterious slip that apparently happened on Day 2.

[Nathann]

I have been saying you're not groupscum since the dawn of Day 2... There's another type of scum in this game... It's not that difficult, boss.

[Nathann]

You were accusing me of trying to look town by saying the game isn't lost yet. That's STILL the only thing even remotely close to being your reason for thinking I am mafia. What is my scum!motivation? Where is the slip?

[Nathann]

I have been saying you're not groupscum since the dawn of Day 2... There's another type of scum in this game... It's not that difficult, boss.

Do you think I'm SK?

I think you have strong anti-associates with the flipped mafia, and I think your points on me are insincere and feel more like false, unsupported bravado. So yes.

[Nathann]

Hm. Based on the sluggishness of the wagons at the end of the day, and based on the fact that Galron was voting Scorpious, I think Scorpious is likely not groupscum. Will try to look at associates later when I have the time.

I skimmed Galron's ISO. Not much worth mentioning, guy's interactions were pretty bland and there's nothing I'd feel confident pointing out as strongly SvS or TvS. Except for the game-long vote on

Scorpious*

, I only now realized he was parked there the entire Day 1. I think that that is very unlikely to come from a partner. I'd assume that, if scum were deciding to RVS their buddy, they'd look for an opportunity to jump off as soon as possible, because if it happened that their buddy actually started getting votes, and they were to jump off

then

, they'd look absolutely horrible. Coupled with the fact that the wagons at EoD1 gave me a strong not-SvT gut feeling, I'm decently confident in saying Scorpious is not groupscum.

I ctrl+F'ed "Scorp" in Galron's ISO, and he did end up suspecting him throughout of Day 1 in a way that I don't think is common for scum to do to their partners. What's the endgame here, tunnel your partner throughout the whole game and do nothing else? I don't find it likely.

Then vote Scorpius. Look at how Day 1 ended, that was not a town-driven elimination.

I will need some serious explanation for this.

A Dreary Saturday Evening

(7) [HAMMER]: Nathann,

Cupcake Butterfly

,

RCEnigma

, RH9, Greeting, Scorpious,

Not_Mafia

Scorpious (5) [E-2]:

Galron

, Save The Dragons, Three,

A Dreary Saturday Evening

Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter

I coloured in the flips and the IC. Judging by your 425 (because I don't think you've said otherwise), you have a townread on both me and Greeting. Assuming you're correct, that's 5/7 people on that wagon town from your PoV, with the first 3 being town. On the contrary, the only flipped scum was firmly on the Scorpious wagon. By what logic did you come to the conclusion that the ADSE wagon was the one that was scum-driven? Or that it wasn't town-driven?

From what I saw of VCA, Scorpious looked unaligned with Galron to me, could you expand on that? Or link to where you have if you have.

For the record, I did read the posts before deadline. And the conclusion I had come to was that Scorpious was not groupscum, because it took so much dragging to actually get ADSE's wagon over the line, with at least one groupscum already on Scorpious. And if Scorpious was really part of the gang, they wouldn't have even gotten to that point.

[Nathann]

please elaborate on my strong anti-associates with flipped mafia.

Scorpious, no offense, but have you been reading my posts? I've said

so many times

by this point that I think you're not aligned with Galron, that's literally my strongest associative-based read. Do you really think I would be saying it for like the 7th time again?

[Nathann]

What is the scum motivation I was exhibiting and where did I slip on Day 2? You still have not answered that.

[Nathann]

Now put it together for me in how that makes me SK.

That

doesn't make you SK, don't twist it. Your "read" on me here reads like garbage because I have seen zero reason to believe that you're not just pulling things out of your ass about "seeing scum motivation from me" or "me slipping on Day 2". I know I'm not scum, so I know you're wrong. I can't tell whether you are genuinely wrong or if you're just trying to shitpush me because you think it's gonna look townie. I don't think you're mafia, so either you're SK trying to appear townie by spouting nonsense or you're a stubborn VT who's gonna lose us the game.

[Nathann]

Only mafia ever refers to themselves as town, you heard it here first, folks.

[Nathann]

Response to 1110:

Frankly, I don't even remember that happening on Day 1, but what I'm assuming happened is that I called Galron out, and nobody agreed with me. And I was more suspicious of other people. Why would I even try to get attention on him without actually voting him?

Not_Mafia was doing less than nothing, and you were calling for his head too. Don't try to make it like wanting him dead is somehow anti-town.

It changed on Day 3? What are you even trying to ask with that?

Asking the IC whether we should be claiming is "concerned town", yeah, concerned town about the short deadline and the fact this game is lurky as shit.

And for this "progression" you tried to make up about me. I didn't think you were scum at start of Day, correct. I didn't have an idea what would be SK-specific tells to look for in people, correct. Then you started acting like scum - you said you have reasons to think I'm scum, mainly the "slip" and my "motivation". You didn't show any of those. That means they're probably bullshit and don't exist. If you were town, you'd want to actually sort me, doing whatever you were doing there is not sorting. That is how we got there.

You are not SK based on my VCA.

Stop misrepresenting that I said that. I said you're

not mafia

based on my VCA. That is it. I'm saying you're not town based on the was you're playing around me, because it definitely didn't look like how town plays. So, if you're not mafia, and you're not town...

[Nathann]

How is asking about where I scumslipped when I'm not scum something only scum does? What is a townie reaction, going "yeah haha, I sure scumslipped, you got me"? Am I losing my mind?

[Nathann]

You quoted some of my posts and pretended there was an illogical progression while completely ignoring the posts that actually cleared it up...

[Nathann]

You proclaimed me scum on reasoning that seemed very much bullshit -- and I was right about it too! -- that's not townie. Not every vote made in response to someone else voting is OMGUS.

[Nathann]

"Nathann scumslipped, and I will not say where."
"I'm not scum, so I can't scumslip, and the fact you don't want to say where you see the 'scumslip' makes me think you're making up reasons to vote me."
"Actually, there was never any scumslip, Nathann is scum for asking about it."

Am I seriously the only person who sees the problem with this???

[Nathann]

My "backing" was that your vote looked fake as fuck -- Which you admitted to yourself.

[Nathann]

It's YeLo. If you're dead set on voting me, either you're scum and I need to vote you, or you're town and we lose regardless of what I do.

[Nathann]

My vote is very real..

I don't buy any of it...

[Nathann]

For someone whose account is from 2015, it's like this is the first time you're in YeLo.

I'm gonna step off, this is clearly just bad-faith shading and it's getting me riled up.

[Nathann]

Still feeling like your case on me is utter nonsense, but I'm not taking it personally. It's the point of the game after all.

[Nathann]

I've seen nothing from his slot that should change my mind about thinking he's scum.

Who's his buddy?

[Nathann]

Forgive me, what is YeLo?

Also LAMIST

YeLo is Yeet or Lose. LAMIST is short for "look at me, i'm so town", which you've been accusing me of, most recently for acknowledging a basic fact about the game's YeLo mechanics.

Wait, it was a reaction test? First class.

Is this sarcasm?

Kinda funny how Jacket sees me and Scorpious in a pretty much locked 1v1, and goes "we could yeet Looker tho". The fact that he'd sooner put me as Looker's buddy than Scorpious, even when that would mean that I have been bussing for no reason for The Whole Game, is concerning. If I'm wrong on Scoprious being not mafia, that's his partner right there.

[Nathann]

Second, He did mention he was getting nothing out of our exchange. It would make sense for him to look elsewhere in hunting.

Sure. But I think a natural town outlook in YeLo would be "here's a 1v1, we should resolve it". And the amount of sorting he's done between the two of us boils down to "Nathann is the scummier one because he's more likely scum with Looker(???) because Scoripous is town because I'm pocketed(???)".

You

are

wrong about me. So humor me in believing me for a second. Does that make Looker scum?

Yes. If you're not mafia, then I think Jacket is town. Because I think mafia!Jacket (who's not aligned with you) or SK!Jacket would have seen the 1v1, realized it doesn't really matter to him which one of us dies, made up a reason why he wants to vote either me or you, and voted there. The fact that he seems invested in the outcome but would prefer to vote elsewhere points at him either being mafia with you (or me, from the outside PoV I guess) or him being town. And if he's town and you're town, scum is RH9 and Looker. The only issue is that then you'd have to be the SK, but y'know.

Third, Jacket seems to be on the same page with my reads, half joking,that worries me.

So, can you explain why you were suddenly townreading Jacket today?

Can you answer how my vote made "your job easier"?

I answered in 1127. If you're gonna mindlessly vote me, either you're scum, so I

should

be voting you; or you're town, and this game is going to probably end soon.

[Nathann]

Not sure where do you think I said I can agree on RH9 being scum right now, but okay.

So, can you explain why you were suddenly townreading Jacket today?

[Nathann]

"Sudden" meaning from Day 2 to Day 3. I don't see any evidence of you townreading him at any point in Day 2 (953 is your last post on him on Day 2, seems like you agree with voting him off), but enter Day 3, you think he's Town (996).

[Nathann]

953 was agreeing that the game was evolving into "shitflinging"and how I thought it had gone down that path already.

what are you getting at here?

Okay, ctrl+F'ing "Jacket" in your ISO, working backwards from 953. There's 796 about Jacket, which is overwhelmingly negative. 791 seems negative, but it might be just disagreeing with him. 790, you say Jacket's hostility is NAI and that you believe there is one scum in Three/Jacket. 788, you accuse him of being defensive. 774, not a fan of him claiming intent but not voting.

That is what you said about him on Day 2. None of it looks

remotely

positive. I'm getting at the fact that your Jacket read did a 180 from Day 2 into Day 3 for no reason.

[Nathann]

Show me ONE post where you called Jacket town on Day 2. Or where you explained why you were suddenly townreading Jacket after scumreading him throughout all of Day 2. Then you can accuse me of shitcasing you.

[Nathann]

Piss on you for making me do this..

Spoiler:

I'm not sure I like this post, coupled with the vote on RH9 in the previous one. It seems like he's saying that he feels like this isn't the case with active scum and apathetic town, but then he votes one of the more active slots? Not saying that he can't have scumreads inside active players if that's his general view on the gamestate, but it feels odd considering he didn't elaborate on it at all.

I think you're misinterpreting my point here. Which is probably my fault for not being explicit enough.

I would characterize the following slots as not doing enough to be readable, as of the time I replaced in:

A50
ADSE
Not_Mafia
STD
StrangeMatter

Now, they obviously can't all be scum. But there's probably scum in there, because it does not feel like a game where scum are running the show, and I felt like the people talking were townie enough. (hopefully, anyway - bit me in my ass in my last game, but that was a case where scum were active but just letting the town eat itself alive).

To me those slots were basically all a dart throw. Acceptable compromise but pretty much a blind guess when it comes to whether or not they're scum.

The one player I

did

have a scumread on was RH9, so I chose to push there, rather than someone who was more inactive and nullish.

As it is, I'm doubting myself on that push anyway.

I find it slightly curious there is no mention of Galron on this list. He’s not on the “unreadable list”. But there is no read on him, same with me and others. But just an observation.

Why make a non readable list then offer a read on exactly one person? Complete with hedge.

Then, In the very next post we have their only direct interaction with each other this entire game

Also, Jacket, why the unvote?

He said a thing I don't think comes from scum.

Something off here

explaing my thoughts, nothing more,nothing less

As it is, I'm doubting myself on that push anyway.

Okay, fair enough. Mind telling me what's got you doubting this push now? In my readthrough of the last few pages, I got the feeling RH9 has gotten worse, not better.

I didn't like most of his responses either, but the self-assuredness of 468 didn't really feel like it came from scum.

Sorry Jacket. This is a big oof for me..

again..benign commentary on a post,never said anything either way.

Does anyone think Jacket's behavior is genuine? Anyone at all?

The hostility yes.. I was called a “weird boomer” because of my theatrics around the word “scum”. Was that offensive? Of course not. Just the route choice was brow raising.

I’ve seen this type of play and at least the way one chooses to present themselves is hardly AI in my experience.


The content I’m working on right now.

I’m reading you guys isolated… again.. I think One of you is scum.

All I said was that I was re reading becasue I

thought

one of them was scum prior to..get this..re-reading

Before I really delve, I will say this.

I was not a fan of Jacket claiming to have intent of initiating an E-1 and then just sit of abandoning the idea.
How much time were you planning on letting elapse before the vote.

I waited. Then waited again. No word from you at all. Can you explain this.?

And maybe you have but I have not read much past me being unfunny.

The intention was to wait and give ADSE a chance to post in order to claim/give reads. I don't know what you think my nefarious plan here was supposed to be, exactly: say I'm going to vote and then not, and rub my hands evilly as we no-elim day 1? Hardly makes sense.

Hence the question, and it does not seem very nefarious.

I am noting a hint of a defensive tone here though.

NOTING

a

HINT

of defensive tone..

Before I really delve, I will say this.

I was not a fan of Jacket claiming to have intent of initiating an E-1 and then just sit of abandoning the idea.
How much time were you planning on letting elapse before the vote.

I waited. Then waited again. No word from you at all. Can you explain this.?

And maybe you have but I have not read much past me being unfunny.

more thought process and questioning, nothing to see here either..

shitcase..

Okay, so at which point did you start townreading Jacket and which posts made you townread him?

[Nathann]

If I had to decide though I vote Nathann over scorp every time here, though.

Cool, why?

[Nathann]

"Your Day 3 townread of Jacket was out of the blue and unexplained, here are all the posts where you were calling him scum or suspecting him on Day 2."
"Actually, those posts aren't

really

calling Jacket scum."
"Okay, but they're still negative. Explain what posts made you townread him?"
"I'm not doing this anymore."

[Nathann]

OMGUS vote

Still pretending he doesn't know how YeLo works. Alright.

[Nathann]

Scorpius why is looker more likely scum than jacket? Nathan I'll ask you the inverse.

I mean, if we were going on my reads in a vaccuum, I'd still be voting Looker... But Jacket is almost definitely aligned with Scorpious if Jacket's mafia, I don't get why he'd be trying to pull us from the 1v1 otherwise.

Does make me wonder if Looker realized one of them is going down at some point today and decided to bus. Though, was Looker even doing anything while me and Scorpious were screaming at each other?

[Nathann]

Wasn't egging us on. Am I wrong on the assumption that both types of scum just wanna yeet whoever isn't their partner or themselves?

And damn, sounds fun. I haven't seen the snow since... 2012.

[Nathann]

Scorpious, why did you unvote me? Who was the "sell me on who to vote for" even directed at?

[Nathann]

Less than 9 hours to deadline, and I am not very sober. Still feeling like Scorpious is the right call, but I will probably switch to sheeping the IC in some 3-4 hours if nothing changes. I can probably check in here and there until then.

[Nathann]

I guess nathann+looker mafia and RH9 SK isn't impossible

Bruh.

Yeah, I've been bussing my partner for the entirety of this game since like page 0, you got me.

Just vote your buddy Scorp and there's a chance you make it.

[Nathann]

Scorpious and Jacket? Trying out any possible angle they can to not have to vote each other? Who would've thought.

VOTE: Jacket

I'll pass out sometime ~soon and I won't be waking up before deadline, so.

[Nathann]

I mean, considering the track records of eliminations and nightkills this game, it might be the best option. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Nathann]

I want to believe that Nathann is scum (due to Jacket not being hammered with two votes on him)

Ignoring the possibility that Jacket might be scum himself: I voted less than 30 minutes ago. It is New Year's Eve. And if scum were to quickhammer that, they outright lose if Jacket is the SK. And even if he's VT, they probably will get hit by the SK. So, uh, what?

[Nathann]

VOTE: Scorpious

My signature feels awfully fitting.

[Nathann]

Yeah dude, okay. You managed to fling nonsense at me for the whole Day Yesterday, and the rest of the game is too apathetic to actually read my responses. Good job, you've won.

[Nathann]

Nathann not dying is weird, but it'd be hypocritical of me to fixate on it because I wasn't voting him. That's where I feel my vote's going to go today.

Why

would

I die? It'd have been a death sentence for Scorpious, of course he wasn't going to kill me. Now he can just keep pushing nonsense about me and respond with "but you're scum!" to anything I say, and nobody cares to actually look into his arguments.

Excluding the conftown, Jacket is my best guess for town now. I'm a bit of a sucker for the AtE. Scorpious + one of RH9/Looker is probably the team, the other being the SK. The reason being is that I'm not sure scum!RH9 posts 1294 if he were partnered with Looker, as he could easily vote one of me and Scorpious here.

And before you say, "but you voted Jacket Yesterday, after his AtE!" Yes, I did. And in the meantime, RH9 tanked in my reads with his "the deadline is passed, and we are in YeLo, but I will vote and put someone at E-1...

for pressure

." Not to mention that he accused me of burying the thread by arguing with Scorpious, when even with that, the game was moving at a very slow pace, and RH9 was not exactly putting in effort to read for everyone's alignment, to put it lightly. Pretending that my argument was somehow stopping solving is awful.

[Nathann]

Sure.

VOTE: RH9

[Nathann]

Yeah, where half the game is scum and we have a confirmed town, moving my vote onto another person I scumread is "opportunistic". Good job.

[Nathann]

Save The Dragons, you around?

[Nathann]

Mind unvoting me for a second? It's gonna be worth your time, I promise. You can revote me later if you want.

[Nathann]

Thanks. I am very annoyed that this is a post that I have to make, but Jacket probably just slams the hammer on me here otherwise, so.

Quick rundown, it's 6 alive right now. 3 town, 2 mafia, 1 SK. If that SK is voted out, it will be 3v2 going into the night, and 2v2 by Tomorrow morning. Meaning the town will lose.

I'm the SK. (Y'all are welcome for the only dead scum this game, by the way.) If you vote me out here, town just loses. So, if you could

not

do that yet, that'd be great. I can pretend to be a Vigilante for the night, yeah?

[Nathann]

That doesn't make sense. Why would SK out if they're going to get eliminated at parity?

Because I lose if I am eliminated, why would I

not

out?

[Nathann]

Like, being put at Y-1 and Jacket saying he's fine voting me, I can either 1) out and work with the town or 2) die and immediately lose. Why would I choose 2)?

[Nathann]

Losing later > losing immediately. Maybe the game shakes out in such a way that mafia kills town and I kill them and I win. Who knows. It's better than just dying here.

[Nathann]

Why are you still voting me? If you're town, my elimination is the only one that instantly loses the game for you too.

[Nathann]

I have been telling you that slot is scum for the whole game...

VOTE: Looker

[Nathann]

I mean, you're coming up to me and saying "but if you're really the SK, you only have a 0.1% chance of winning this game by claiming, so why wouldn't you just instantly lose the game instead?"

[Nathann]

No shit I'm very likely to either get shot by mafia or voted out by the town later on. I'm aware. But there's a chance, however slim, that

something

happens in the game that lets me win. If I'm to just get executed here, that last chance is gone.

The town needs my killpower right now.

[Nathann]

Killed Greeting on N2 and RCEnigma on N3. No clue what the mafia has been doing.

[Nathann]

Well I'm awfully sorry to hear that, but frankly I think you're mafia trying to vote out the only person you can vote out to win instantly, so /shrug.

I was sooner going to take my chances by having more scum around (that I can always kill later on) than by leaving the confirmed townies alive that narrow down the pool of suspects.

[Nathann]

Neither RCEnigma nor Save The Dragons were ever getting executed. Keeping them alive meant that my odds of getting executed would go up. I can always take care of mafia by shooting them the next night; I can't do jack shit if I'm voted out.

[Nathann]

You could have kept RCE alive and convinced him not to eliminate you because you claim to be SK. I think that RCE would have been reasonable enough to keep you alive and

we could have won together

, anyways.

Uh. Who's the "we"? And I'm pretty sure there is no joint win for anyone here, so...

[Nathann]

I mean, I could be wrong, and the scumteam could be something like Scorpious and Jacket. I haven't been

too

invested in finding mafia, I'll admit.

[Nathann]

No, my win condition is to be the last one standing. Sorry, bud.

[Nathann]

This really does not make sense from an SK tho

What doesn't make sense? Hammering me openly Yesterday was dangerous because had I flipped VT, the mafia would have been more-or-less outed, and they'd still have to deal with the SK who probably would have killed one of them tonight. Of course they weren't going to quickhammer.

[Nathann]

Nah, he would have killed me..

I actually was planning on killing you on N2 for the majority of the night, and changed it last minute. I figured Greeting had bigger odds of being a TPR, and that killing you would end up pointing back to me, because I was calling you town at the time.

[Nathann]

Yeah, I'm working with town NOW, when my options are either die immediately or work with town. I very much was not trying to work with town last night.

And again, it's not a loss either way, it's very slim odds of winning. And even if it was loss either way, I would prolong it by claiming anyway because I am an asshole.

[Nathann]

It doesn't make any sense for an SK to do this.

To the contrary, it would make sense for an SK to... not claim, let himself get voted out, and lose immediately? Sure.

[Nathann]

Looker is calling me mafia who's fakeclaiming SK.

[Nathann]

"I am going to try to be townie, so that I don't get voted out; but not too townie, so that I don't get shot," I say, and then proceed to fail at both of those tasks.

Congrats to scum, and thanks for the game, mod! The flavour was really fun.