Nomic: Wiki Edition --- Finished (More or Less)

[StrangerCoug]

/in

Let me look at the current proposals.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 307

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Abstain 303
VOTE: Yeah 306

[StrangerCoug]

Proposal 308: Whenever a player makes a proposal, that player automatically votes Yea thereon by default.

VOTE: Yea 308

[StrangerCoug]

Treat 308 as void. I'm on my phone and didn't notice it was basically already there as a rule.

[StrangerCoug]

Proposal 310: Players may withdraw proposals they have made that they no longer support. A withdrawn proposal automatically fails. If this proposal passes while Proposal 308 is still pending, that proposal shall automatically be withdrawn and fail.

VOTE: Yea 309

[StrangerCoug]

Amended Proposal 310: Players may withdraw proposals they have made that they no longer support by bolding "Withdraw ###", where ### is the number of the proposal that the player wishes to withdraw. A withdrawn proposal automatically fails. If this proposal passes while Proposal 308 is still pending, that proposal shall automatically be withdrawn and fail.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Nay 311, at least until the points thing is sorted out.

I like the idea in #68. A one-point penalty for rule violations seems the most reasonable with the existing system—less than that and you're dealing with fractional points, which are more difficult to work with; more than that seems extreme with the current point system in place.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug, you can just vote nay to proposal 308 and kill it that way.

Very well, then.

VOTE: Nay 308

[StrangerCoug]

Wiki updated to reflect #308 voted down now.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 312

Proposal 313: A player may vote "[Yea/Nay] with reservations" on any proposal made after this rule, which shall henceforth be known as a vote with reservations. A player who does so should, but is not required to, explain the reservations the player holds that prevent an unqualified vote. A vote with reservations is indistinct from a normal vote for the purposes of calculating the number of votes needed to pass a proposal.

I liked this rule from last time, and I think it'll encourage discussion on the merits of proposals.

[StrangerCoug]

I have a draft proposal for another currency idea, but even though there's room for one more proposal, I already have two active and I don't want to be seen as keeping other people from making proposals.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 314

I'd like to think more about 315 when I don't have to get ready for work, but for now VOTE: Yea 315.

[StrangerCoug]

I think Deimos27's vote passes 312, by the way.

[StrangerCoug]

The currency proposal that I have drafted gives everyone a starting amount. I may make it into a formal proposal after work if there's an open proposal slot then.

[StrangerCoug]

I count four active proposals, so:

Proposal 316: There is hereby created a currency called Nomic dollars, whose symbol shall be N$. Upon passage of this proposal, every current player, regardless of activity, shall earn N$1,000. Every new player who joins after the passage of this proposal shall thereby earn N$1,000. Every day at 00:00 UTC, every active player shall earn N$100. How many Nomic dollars each player has shall be noted in the Player Statuses section of the wiki.

[StrangerCoug]

I mean, I'm open to playing around with the numbers a bit. I didn't want the math involved to be too difficult for us who will have to keep track of it.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 318

[StrangerCoug]

Well, it's been passed already, but it's still a good rule.

[StrangerCoug]

Proposal 319: There is hereby created an items shop, from which players may use Nomic dollars to buy items. Players may make motions to add items to the shop. Such motions must include a price for each item in Nomic dollars (although the same price can apply to multiple items) as well as a use effect for each item. Items so added for sale are removed therefrom when the motion adding them expires unless otherwise stated in the motion adding the item.

Modified a bit from the proposal adding weapons and armor shops in the last game, but the basic idea is the same.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 320
VOTE: Yea 321

[StrangerCoug]

Any opinion on the central bank Coug?

So far I don't have any objections to it.

[StrangerCoug]

Any opinion on the central bank Coug?

So far I don't have any objections to it.

I would have to think about whether it could use some improvement. I'm phoneposting on lunch break right now.

VOTE: Yea M001
VOTE: Yea 322
VOTE: Yes 323

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 324

[StrangerCoug]

It would be useful if the central bank were to publish updates also on stats such as the daily or weekly percentage increase of the money supply, to inform pricing decisions on shop items. I would certainly volunteer to do so if I were elected to the board regardless of whether it is an officially required duty.

That would be a good idea now that you bring it up. Since the way Nomic dollars are introduced is effectively inflationary in nature, it might be necessary to allow changing item prices to account for it.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and don't forget to give all the active players N$100 after (expired on 2021-11-02 00:00:00).

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Aye 325
VOTE: Aye M002 as amended.

[StrangerCoug]

Why are inactive players getting money? Shouldn't tris still be at N$1,000 and Charles510 at N$1,100?

[StrangerCoug]

I went and fixed it in the wiki.

[StrangerCoug]

Proposal 326: There is hereby added a fourth page to the Nomic: Wiki Edition article on the MafiaScum Wiki, which is hereby titled "Shops", and which shall contain all the shops currently in operation in the game. Each shop shall have its own section. Each shop's section shall list the items it currently has for sale, each item's current price in at least one currency accepted by the shop, and any other information relevant to each item's availability (e.g. the quantity remaining of Limited Supply items and the date and time of the removal of sale of Limited Time items).

[StrangerCoug]

Buy 2 vote coupons

[StrangerCoug]

I'd like to come up with some more ideas for shop items. As it is, I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff on my own that wouldn't require rule amendments.

Proposal 327: Rule 214 is hereby amended to read as follows: The first player to reach 100 points wins the game unless there cease to be any remaining active players except for the moderator prior to that point, in which case the player with the most points wins the game. In the event of a tie, the first player to reach the winning total wins the game.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M003

[StrangerCoug]

It might be addressable by a rule that says proposals and motions cannot be clearly designed to give one player an unfair advantage, but the problem with that is that we'd have to define and agree upon what "an unfair advantage" is.

[StrangerCoug]

Or rather simple majority - 2 cause your own vote counts for one

I think a cap would prevent that scenario. We'd have to address what happens when a player has too many vote coupons because of changes in how many constitutes a simple majority (or even with the passage of the proposal, since I have two vote coupons and would currently have one too many).

[StrangerCoug]

Let me sleep on 329. I do like recruitment bonuses in principle; it's the implementation I'd like more time to think about.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Nay 329
VOTE: Aye 331
VOTE: Aye 332
VOTE: Aye 333
VOTE: Nay M004

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 334
VOTE: Yea 335
VOTE: Yea 336

And that should pass them all.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry; kinda forgot about this game.

VOTE: Yea 338
VOTE: Yea 339
VOTE: Abstain M005

[StrangerCoug]

For a moment I thought it was a draft for a rule proposal and was going to say that we would need to agree on a definition of "well-thought out" to be a good, objective rule, but then I realized that knowledge points were your currency, so I don't think it's as important to formalize that definition. Right now I'm about ready to fall asleep, which is probably why I misinterpreted as a rule draft.

[StrangerCoug]

I am in favor of changing the electoral rules some, and I do see Deimos27's argument as to how I could have benefited by not submitting a vote. I do like Jake's idea of ranked-choice voting and would like to see how he plans to implement it before I chime in with my idea.

[StrangerCoug]

Intuitively I'd like making decisions elsewhere to keep this thread streamlined on legislation but I also appreciate that it decreases transparency and might be less convenient than having everything related to the game in the same place.

I'd say formal voting is unnecessary if we get verbal consensus from everyone, and in general we should aim for such consensus first and use formal majority voting as a last resort.

Thoughts on this StrangerCoug? I'm in favor of not really doing formal voting simply because that can needlessly slow things down. As to hosting it elsewhere, I don't think it is too much of a distraction to just do it in the thread. Ideally, we aren't going to be ruling on too much anyway.

I don't think there's an issue with dispensing with formalities here and doing voting in thread unless there's a compelling need for secrecy.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, the board should decide on an exchange rate for Crowns and Knowledge Points. I am currently thinking maybe N$1 = 50 KP for now would be reasonable. For crowns, since there are less of them, perhaps N$1 = 20 kr would be a good initial exchange rate. I expect these exchange rates to improve over time as the owner's supply of the currency decreases with time.

Maybe, or perhaps N$1 = 25 kr as an alternative if we think that 20 crowns to the Nomic dollar overvalues the crown a bit. I'd like to know what's on Deimos's mind as regards a fair exchange rate.

[StrangerCoug]

In addition, it should be impossible for a player to have more than X voting power through any methods.

I agree.

[StrangerCoug]

We need more proposals. Anyone have some?

Well, last game, we transmuted the rule about joining to ensure that anybody could join. While I don't think anybody would feel left out by the current rule being mutable since we haven't contemplated, oh, outright closing signups to everybody, it might help with reassurance.

Proposal 340: Rule 212 is hereby transmuted to immutable.

[StrangerCoug]

Let's do N$1 = 50KP for now I'm ok with that

Coug confirm this still?

I confirm being OK with it.

VOTE: Yea 341

[StrangerCoug]

Exchange N$10 for 500KP

Ok my questions have the same ruleset as Ircher's. The theme is ancient Greek and Roman literature.

1. "Divine command theory" grounds morals in the word of a deity (i.e. it answers the question "what is good?" with "that which [deity] commands"). A famous dilemma for divine command theory can be paraphrased roughly as follows: is x good because the gods judge that it is good, or do the gods judge that x is good because it is good?

10KP for the name of the author of the ancient work in which this dilemma first appeared. 10KP for the title of the work. 10KP if you can explain why this might be considered a dilemma for divine command theory.

2. "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres..." is how one famous ancient work begins in its original language.

10KP for the name of the author. 10KP for the title of the work (you may give it in English). 10KP for an approximate translation of the quoted phrase.

1 is talking about Euthypro's dilemma (sorry if I butchered the spelling of his name), so Euthypro for the ancient author.
I believe 2 is by Cicero and means "All Gaul is divided into three parts".
Shoot me if I know either work title off the top of my head, but I swear I've heard of them both.

[StrangerCoug]

Exchange N$10 for 500KP as well

In the process of coming up with questions, expect me to take awhile to think of good ones.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree.

VOTE: Yea 342

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 343

[StrangerCoug]

Let's try these questions for size. Same rules apply as with Ircher's and Deimos27's question, and these are all math and science questions. For questions with math involved, you must show your work to receive any credit.

1. A 1,600 kg car is traveling due north at 60 km/h when it collides perfectly inelastically with an 1,800 kg car traveling due east at 50 km/h. For 10 KP each:
   1. What is the total momentum of both cars?
      
   2. What is the velocity of both cars immediately following the collision?
      
   3. What is the total kinetic energy lost by both cars in the collision?
2. Take the chemical equation Na₂CO₃ + HCl → NaCl + H₂O + CO₂. For 10 KP each:
   1. Balance the above equation.
      
   2. Give the names of both reactants and of all three products.
      
   3. This is a two-stage reaction. What type of reaction is each stage?
3. I want to purchase a car that costs $25,000. The sales tax is 7.5% added to the price of the car. The title, registration, and other fees cost me $500. I make a down payment of 10% of the price of the car (before taxes and fees) and take out auto loan with a term of 60 months at 5% simple interest for the balance, with the tax and fees bundled into the loan. Loan payments are due monthly. For 10 KP each, to the nearest cent:
   1. How much will the auto loan be for?
      
   2. How much is each monthly payment?
      
   3. What is the total interest I will pay on the loan?
      
   4. How much would I save over the life of the loan if, instead of the taxes and fees being bundled into the loan, I were required to pay the taxes and fees upfront with my 10% down payment (all else being equal)?

[StrangerCoug]

a. We want the same number of each molecule on both sides, and ideally, we want integer numbers here. So with that in mind,
we have 2 hydrogens on the right but only one on the left, so we will want at least 2 HCl for every H₂O we have. We also need twice as many NaCl as we have Na₂CO₃ so the quantities of Na are equal. With those constraints and some guessing-and-checking, I come to the following equation:

2 Na₂CO₃ + 4 HCl yields 4 NaCl + 2 H₂O + 2 CO₂

I'll give full credit.

Give 10 KP to Ircher

. If you wanted to simplify the balanced equation, you could write Na₂CO₃ + 2 HCl → 2 NaCl + H₂O + CO₂.

b. Disodium carbon trioxide + Hydrocloride yields Sodium Chloride + Dihydrogen Monoxide + Carbon Dioxide

That is incorrect.

[StrangerCoug]

You forgot the division sign when calculating the northbound component of the velocity of part b, but everything else is a good approximation of what I get.

Give 49 KP to Deimos27.

The second two parts of the chemistry problem and the second two parts of the auto loan problem are still up for grabs.

[StrangerCoug]

I realize 3b might have been a bit unclear whether the monthly payments were inclusive or exclusive of interest, so I'll give

the 1 KP I withheld from Deimos27

actually, let's up it to a full 10 KP to whoever can tell me what the monthly payment is inclusive of interest.

[StrangerCoug]

Let's try these questions for size. Same rules apply as with Ircher's and Deimos27's question, and these are all math and science questions. For questions with math involved, you must show your work to receive any credit.

1. A 1,600 kg car is traveling due north at 60 km/h when it collides perfectly inelastically with an 1,800 kg car traveling due east at 50 km/h. For 10 KP each:
   1. What is the total momentum of both cars?
      
   2. What is the velocity of both cars immediately following the collision?
      
   3. What is the total kinetic energy lost by both cars in the collision?
2. Take the chemical equation Na₂CO₃ + HCl → NaCl + H₂O + CO₂. For 10 KP each:
   1. Balance the above equation.
      
   2. Give the names of both reactants and of all three products.
      
   3. This is a two-stage reaction. What type of reaction is each stage?
3. I want to purchase a car that costs $25,000. The sales tax is 7.5% added to the price of the car. The title, registration, and other fees cost me $500. I make a down payment of 10% of the price of the car (before taxes and fees) and take out auto loan with a term of 60 months at 5% simple interest for the balance, with the tax and fees bundled into the loan. Loan payments are due monthly. For 10 KP each, to the nearest cent:
   1. How much will the auto loan be for?
      
   2. How much is each monthly payment?
      
   3. What is the total interest I will pay on the loan?
      
   4. How much would I save over the life of the loan if, instead of the taxes and fees being bundled into the loan, I were required to pay the taxes and fees upfront with my 10% down payment (all else being equal)?

I realize 3b might have been a bit unclear whether the monthly payments were inclusive or exclusive of interest, so I'll give

the 1 KP I withheld from Deimos27

actually, let's up it to a full 10 KP to whoever can tell me what the monthly payment is inclusive of interest.

Any other takers for 2b, 2c, 3b inclusive of interest, 3c, and 3d? I'll allow until 9:00 PM CST (that's in (expired on 2021-11-08 21:00:00)) for any more tries.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 344

[StrangerCoug]

OK, time is up for my questions. Here are the remaining answers:

For the reactants and products of Na₂CO₃ + 2HCl → 2NaCl + H₂O + CO₂, Na₂CO₃ is disodium carbonate, HCl is hydrochloric acid, NaCl is sodium chloride (you probably have it in your kitchen—table salt is mostly sodium chloride), H₂O is water (even though Ircher's response of "dihydrogen monoxide" is technically correct as well), and CO₂ is carbon dioxide. Since Ircher gave valid IUPAC names of all the products, I will

give 5 KP to Ircher

.

What's happening is a double displacement reaction (also called a double replacement reaction or a salt metathesis reaction) followed by a decomposition reaction. The double displacement reaction that happens first is Na₂CO₃ + HCl → 2NaCl + H₂CO₃ (H₂CO₃ is carbonic acid). The decomposition reaction that follows it is H₂CO₃ → H₂O + CO₂.

For the car loan, we have simple interest here, so our formula is I = Prt, where I is the interest paid, P is the principal (here $24,375), r is the rate (here 5%), and t is the number of periods. r and t must be in the same time units, and t is typically in years, so from here on out my work assumes the 5% rate is an annual rate (I should have specified that). Since 60 months is 5 years, that works out to $24,375 * 0.05 * 5 = $6,093.75 in interest, the answer to part c. That gets added to the $24,375 principal to obtain $30,468.75; dividing that by 60 months gets you $507.81/month; the answer to part b.

Here I paid $32,968.75 for the car, but part d asks: How much would I save by paying the taxes and fees upfront with my down payment? 10% of $25,000 is obviously $2,500, and 7.5% of it is $1,875. Add those to the $500 fees and that's $4,875 paid toward the car already. My loan would only be for $22,500, for which I'd pay $5,625 interest on according to the formula. $22,500 + $5,625 + $4,875 = $33,000, so here I'd actually incur a $31.25 loss—though if anyone sees any mistakes in my math, I'll give 10 KP to anyone who points it out.

[StrangerCoug]

Ahh... That's where I messed up, then.

Give 10 KP to Ircher.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M006

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Nay 345

I get the point of expedience that Jake is making, but it's a solution in search of a problem. The existing rule that you must transmute an immutable rule to mutable first is by design. If someone proposes to transmute an immutable rule to mutable, that person is probably against the rule being immutable to begin with.

[StrangerCoug]

Not really. You could be fine with a rule being immutable, but what the rule is specifically could be a problem.

Hence why I said "probably", not "certainly". It's a rare situation, and the current way allows a rule to be more thoroughly vetted while it's mutable. Your proposal blurs the line between mutable and immutable and simply makes it a matter of whether unanimous consent is required to amend or repeal a rule. I'm not comfortable with that.

Question of the Day #6

Category: Computer Science
Question: Which algorithm for finding the minimum spanning tree of a graph is a variation of another algorithm that is used to find the shortest path between two nodes provided the graph has no nonpositive weighted nodes? (As always, spelling counts.)
Bonus: If you answer this question correctly

and

name the other algorithm I am referencing here, you will get an additional 10 Knowledge Points. Please note that you must be specific as to which answer corresponds to which algorithm. (That is, if you answer both the question and the bonus, you need to make it clear which answer corresponds to minimum spanning trees and which algorithm corresponds to the shortest path problem.)

Ah, man, I used to know this one, and I have a CS degree. Is the minimum spanning tree algorithm the Dijkstra algorithm and the shortest path algorithm the A* search algorithm?

[StrangerCoug]

Category: Literature
Question: The novel

The Lord of the Rings

was published in stages in three separate volumes. What are the titles of these volumes?

The Fellowship of the Ring

,

The Two Towers

, and

The Return of the King

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M007
VOTE: Yea M008

[StrangerCoug]

Buy 2 Victory Trophies

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M009
VOTE: Yea 345

[StrangerCoug]

Prod dodge; had been meaning to post more questions of my own for KP.

[StrangerCoug]

Question of the Day #10

Category: Biochemistry
Question: What kind of molecule helps speed up reactions in the human body?

An enzyme?

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 346

[StrangerCoug]

Question: What are the 12 major scales in the order of the circle of fifths? (If you accidentally reverse the order, you will still get full credit.)

C, G, D, A, E, B, F#/Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F

if I worked it out correctly.

[StrangerCoug]

Again, I feel like I used to know this one

[StrangerCoug]

Election results are (in order of receipt):

Ircher's votes

1. StrangerCoug
   
2. Jake The Wolfie
   
3. Deimos27

StrangerCoug's votes

1. Ircher
   
2. Jake The Wolfie
   
3. Deimos27

Jake The Wolfie's votes

1. StrangerCoug
   
2. Gamma Emerald
   
3. Not_Mafia

That gives me 10 votes, Jake The Wolfie 6 votes, Ircher 5 votes, Gamma Emerald 3 votes, Deimos27 2 votes, and Not_Mafia 1 vote. I remain Head Director, Ircher remains on the board, and Jake The Wolfie is elected to the board.

Thank you for participating

[StrangerCoug]

Didn't notice the Chinese question. Should've gotten that one ><

Question: Who is the main playable character in the series of games

The Legend of Zelda

?

Link

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please note sig.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M010

[StrangerCoug]

Prodge, not out of V/LA yet.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA.

[StrangerCoug]

I mean, I have a definition, but I don't know if it's formal enough for Ircher xD

[StrangerCoug]

So the limit of a sequence is the limit you approach as you add the terms of the sequence if it converges. For example, the sequence 1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + ... diverges, but 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... converges. (Sometimes the signs alternate, but the concept is the same.)

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea 348
VOTE: Yea 349

[StrangerCoug]

Proposal 350: Weapons and armor may have additional effects. Additional effects detail what else the weapon/armor causes. All additional effects are superseded by both rules and motions. This proposal shall automatically fail if Proposal 348 fails.

Proposal 351: There are hereby created a weapons shop, from which players may use Nomic dollars to buy weapons, and an armor shop, from which players may use Nomic dollars to buy armor. Players may make motions to add items to either shop. Such motions must include a price for each item, although the same price can apply to multiple items. Items so added for sale are removed therefrom when the motion adding them expires unless otherwise stated in the motion adding the item. This proposal shall automatically fail if either or both of Proposals 348 or 350 fail.

[StrangerCoug]

Hi

Having a look at the proposed battle system right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Every player has a set amount of Health and Mana, the ability to use equipment and dungeon-related items, a set of Skills and a set amount of Experience points. When a player’s Health is 0 or below, the player will lose all dungeon-related items and equipment they may have (except Completion rewards) and half of their Battle Tokens (rounded up) and 500 Life will be deducted from their current total.

How will the starting amount of health and mana be determined? Will it be fixed for each dungeon, is it up for the Dungeon Keeper to decide, or what did you have in mind?

Question of the Day #19

Category: History
Question: Which Englishman is credited as one of the two main founders of calculus?

If I'm in time, I believe that is

Isaac Newton

.

[StrangerCoug]

Question of the Day #20

Category: Computer Science
Question: What is the average-case time complexity for merge sort? (Please express your answer in big-O or big-Theta notation.)

O(n log n)

?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm still here

I'm good with the battle system here, though admittedly I tend to be easy to please.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, this is totally on me as I haven't been paying attention, but another election should have started on the 8th. We can probably just go with it starting on the 12th UTC instead (since it is well past the 8th). StrangerCoug would be the one presiding again.

We'll start it then, then, and declare voting open.

Question of the Day #21

Category: Card games
Question: In the game contract bridge, there is a set priority of suits during the auction phase. Valid bids during the auction phase require either bidding a higher priority suit as the trump suit or bidding more tricks. What is the order of suit priority from lowest priority to greatest priority? (You can also bid no trump suit, but please ignore that for this question.)

Clubs, diamonds, hearts, spades

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Yea M011

[StrangerCoug]

Voting is over for the Board of Directors and I only got two votes: from Ircher and myself.

Ircher's vote:

1. StrangerCoug
   
2. Jake The Wolfie
   
3. lendunistus

My vote:

1. Ircher
   
2. Jake The Wolfie
   
3. lendunistus

The board once again consists of Ircher, Jake the Wolfie, and me; the only difference between last time is that Jake the Wolfie is the new Head Director.

I feel that the Board of Directors needs a bit of reform if it is going to survive, though it's a bit late at night for me to come up with something.

[StrangerCoug]

Prodge.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree.

[StrangerCoug]

Why hold an election while the game's suspended?

[StrangerCoug]

rip. might turn the dungeon system I proposed into its own game if there's interest. sort of like level up 3 but with way less RNG

have a nice hiatus, deimos

/interest