Micro 1040: Shirley, You Blitz!

[Radical Rat]

It MIGHT be mutually beneficial if we all claimed either Jester or Not Jester?

I was thinking about it before game start, and since we can safely eliminate 2 out of 3 Jesters, it may be bester to jest eliminate one of them now, as opposed to risking hitting a Townie with so few of us existing.

[Radical Rat]

And yeah, I know not all three Jesters are going to claim truthfully, but it's something to start with.

[Radical Rat]

I'm wondering why anyone would have an interest in claiming jester. But I don't see any harm here so I guess we can do that.

The idea is if anyone claims Jester, they're a relatively safe choice for a D1 lim. Jester has a reason to claim, or at least one or two of them might, because we would eliminate them.

Since the whole Jester thing means we have extremely few Townies, it's a hell of a risk to just lim blindly here, whereas this generates an amount of content to inform future eliminations, while avoiding a D1 mislim and instant MeLo

[Radical Rat]

i dont feel like anyone in particular that has posted is town although i did go back and notice that galron was confirmed so that was nice

I am going to interpret this as Jester Claim #1

VOTE: schadd_

[Radical Rat]

does like nobody else understand the joy of voting the confirmed town person??? is Nobody upset?? frustrated?? that they don't get to do it because i did it already??

i am not claiming jester: plainly

So unvote him then.

~At

The way I see it there are three possibilities here:

1. schadd_ is Jester
2. schadd_ is scum pretending to be Jester
3. schadd_ doesn't understand the voting rules

However, since confirming that you DID understand the voting rules was part of the role PM.... I'm very confident schadd_ is just not Town here

[Radical Rat]

I didn't mean to actually quote that post, sorry

[Radical Rat]

ok here's my first good vote

VOTE: radical rat

• so this is a blitz game and it looks like we have a handful of dawdlers in the pl here. everytime you say "poke player" imagine youre poking me in the eye socket/temple to try to give me a headache. anyway if i want to move towards a good execution meaningfully it occurs to me to act fast
  
• i do think that radical rat voting me was a sign of someone wanting an excuse to get a vote down, which is something that non-town alignments are generally happy to do
  
• idrc if i end up voting a jester. crack eggs to make an omelette

pedit hello! i do know the voting rules and am town. i voted galron for fun, which is actually very obviously a possibility

Sure, except for the part where Galron is now endangered. If indeed you are Town, which I do not believe, the three Jesters can vote Galron, then he's at E-1. Scum can hammer, or could have voted before and a Jester hammers. Either way, Galron dies, and we're left with a wagon that can be reasonably assumed to have scum on it. At which point, we kinda have to just pick out names and eliminate them, hoping we hit scum before the last Jester, and double hoping it didn't have both scum on it.

It may be a fun vote, but it sure doesn't leave us in a very fun position

[Radical Rat]

Not Jester btw

[Radical Rat]

Though it is also notable that no one's actually DONE that yet, so... idk, maybe I'm just paranoid and it won't end up hurting anything

[Radical Rat]

I would if I were a Jester. It's a quick and easy way to get eliminated

[Radical Rat]

Heyo what up, too many pages for me to read, can someone give me a tl;dr of the game state?

-one of the heads

if you're a nontown you help yeet the IC. tomorrow there will be three townies so all nontowns can massclaim (on day 2) and then we form an anti town voting bloc and start doing a cycle of yeet jester -> nk townie -> yeet scum -> nk townie -> yeet jester -> nk townie -> yeet jester -> nk townie and then everyone except town loses

Wait I was under the impression this was nightless.
Also, even if there are nightkills, the game would end after the first Town kill, because Mafia only needs parity with Town, as per sample PM

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: bugspray

Doesn't much matter to me Which Jester and/or Scum get their clown scholarship, or at least not who gets one first.

[Radical Rat]

It's less that I specifically want Jester and more that I Don't want Town. Jester claims/behaviors could feasibly come from either Jesters or real Scum, but there's no downside to eliminating any Jester except the last, so for the time being I'm not terribly picky

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: bugspray

Doesn't much matter to me Which Jester and/or Scum get their clown scholarship, or at least not who gets one first.

If we can discern who is more likely to be scum of the two it matters to me a lot. Between NM and bugspray, bugspray seems like a better choice to me currently. I asked you this before and I'm still wondering, why are you even already voting? We haven't even seen all the players yet.

If they're not Town, they're not Town, regardless of who has or hasn't posted yet.

And sure, eliminating scum is preferable, if one can discern a difference. I will say that out of everyone so far, bugspray looks the worst, but I'm okay with eliminating any of my votes.

[Radical Rat]

Bl

[Radical Rat]

Weird that he couldn't post, since game threads are technically public right?

[Radical Rat]

I stopped reading at vanilla town and replied confirm vanilla town

And this is a lie because the role PM also requires you to confirm the voting rules explicitly

[Radical Rat]

RR: I remember that they were quite capable of emulating a Town mindset as scum and I wrongly TRed them for it. Not sure if I should trust them considering that.

Sorry, which game was this? I don't remember playing as scum in a game with you, but I am also very forgetful

[Radical Rat]

I stopped reading at vanilla town and replied confirm vanilla town

And this is a lie because the role PM also requires you to confirm the voting rules explicitly

mod error occured

Alright, and did you also not read the game's description before signing up?

Because your elimination order suggestion also assumed the existence of nightkills, AND would have just led to a Jester victory, even without the kills

[Radical Rat]

RR: I remember that they were quite capable of emulating a Town mindset as scum and I wrongly TRed them for it. Not sure if I should trust them considering that.

Sorry, which game was this? I don't remember playing as scum in a game with you, but I am also very forgetful

You replaced out of it. It was Mini 2250.

Ah, that explains why I didn't remember you being in it, secret alt game.

While I appreciate the compliment, I'm afraid I replaced out really early and even before I did I was barely there, so whoever was emulating a town mindset probably wasn't actually me.

[Radical Rat]

Ah yes, I remember being very confused about that at the time. Alright then, carry on

[Radical Rat]

I stopped reading at vanilla town and replied confirm vanilla town

And this is a lie because the role PM also requires you to confirm the voting rules explicitly

mod error occured

Alright, and did you also not read the game's description before signing up?

Because your elimination order suggestion also assumed the existence of nightkills, AND would have just led to a Jester victory, even without the kills

So you want jester!me to win?

I think you're scum pretending to be jester pretending to be scum.

And if you ARE Jester, I'm okay with that because you'd only be the first Jester, and you're not Town.

So, I suppose the answer would be yes, I do want Jester!you to win, but I don't actually think that's the case here

[Radical Rat]

It'd be really funny if Not_Mafia is Town actually. I hope not of course, but y'know

[Radical Rat]

IF it is a jester flip I think the game is solved

RR, Shadd, N_M -> Jester
Bugspray, ???-> mafia
Galron, MegAzumarill, RH9, ???-> Town

WinFried/AtE making up the last mafia slot

As Jester, why do I make a suggestion about claiming Jesters and eliminating there... And then claim NOT Jester? Seems like I'd probably want to keep myself in the elimination pool

[Radical Rat]

Because earlier I had originally presumed you were trying to get jesters to claim to freeze them and not lose using blatantly faulty logic. Now that that is clearly not the case I think you just wanted to be called out for that faulty logic

My logic was/is:
Scum and Jester both have reason to claim Jester
Town does not have reason to claim Jester
Eliminating the first two Jesters is safe
Eliminating a Jester claim hits maybe Scum, maybe Jester, but almost definitely not Town

Freezing claims is also a benefit, and why I wanted the claims to happen early, but I don't really understand what's wrong with the logic there

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: bugspray
VOTE: schadd_

Opinions are unchanged on these two

[Radical Rat]

The idea that town is in a better position after eliminating Jester d1.
It's 1 step from Mylo wither way

Eliminating Jester

is

better than eliminating Town, until the last Jester.

4 Town
3 Jesters
2 Mafia

Jester lim puts us at:
4 Town
2 Jesters
2 Mafia

Now it's impossible to eliminate without a Town vote, and we're still 1 away from MeLo

Town lim puts us at:
3 Town
3 Jesters
2 Mafia

Town votes aren't needed to push an elimination, and we're now at MeLo, not 1 away. Note the Mafia sample Role PM says they only need parity with Town, Jesters are irrelevant.

That's a worse position, is it not?

[Radical Rat]

Alright so.
I had a thought, and it's PROBABLY a horrible idea, but I want to get opinions on it anyway.

Intentionally eliminating Galron.

I know I got onto schadd_ for voting him as a "joke," but hear me out. By putting ourselves into MeLo, which is what any Town elimination would do, we put the game in danger of ending. Any surviving Jesters are now incentivized to hunt scum, because another Town elimination is game over, with them still alive. They are also disincentivized from simply pushing each other, if they find the other, because it's going to be exponentially harder for the last Jester to get killed.

So we have Jesters forced into Townsiding while we hopefully find the scumteam, and though by the same token the Jesters must Scumside after the first Mafia is hit, the change in behavior should be noticeable enough to avoid eliminating them.

[Radical Rat]

Okay maybe you are jester

We never elim galron

Why intentionally make elo if we hit it worst case scenario anyway?
We try to get scum and if somehow bugspray is town we are just in that situation but better.

It's counter-intuitive, yes, but consider bugspray does flip Mafia, as expected.

Now the remaining two Jesters will play indistinguishably from scum.

Eliminating Town though, that forces the Jesters to help us find scum, and then when they have to change sides after the first scumflip they expose themselves as Jesters, and we know to avoid them

[Radical Rat]

I consider it a high risk high reward type deal

[Radical Rat]

Okay maybe you are jester

We never elim galron

Why intentionally make elo if we hit it worst case scenario anyway?
We try to get scum and if somehow bugspray is town we are just in that situation but better.

It's counter-intuitive, yes, but consider bugspray does flip Mafia, as expected.

Now the remaining two Jesters will play indistinguishably from scum.

Eliminating Town though, that forces the Jesters to help us find scum, and then when they have to change sides after the first scumflip they expose themselves as Jesters, and we know to avoid them

Jester literally play opposite from scum in this scenario

I'm assuming you mean the scenario where we eliminate scum, since that's where I said Jesters would play as scum.

Playing opposite from scum means they lose, because game over when the second scum gets eliminated. Playing as though they were scum prolongs the game and makes them viable eliminations, so that's what we should expect them to do.

[Radical Rat]

I consider it a high risk high reward type deal

Should I be trusting you?

No, you should be evaluating my claims for yourself and deciding whether you agree with my conclusions. If the logic is sound, then trust in me isn't required. If it isn't, I'd appreciate your feedback, again regardless of your trust in me or lack thereof.

[Radical Rat]

But jester wants to be eliminated and Mafia doesn't

There's a notable playstyle difference

And yet, paradoxically, in order for Jesters to be eliminated they must play as though they do not. And for the Mafia to not be eliminated, they may find the best defense is to act as though they do.
Which then also means the opposites are true for both as well, and so begins an endless spiral of WIFOM, where it becomes nigh impossible to tell how many layers of deception a given slot is using.

[Radical Rat]

But jester wants to be eliminated and Mafia doesn't

There's a notable playtime difference

Playstyle *

This is the difference I find between shadd and bugspray I find.

It's more vibes and experience with jesters on other mafia related things than anything else but I don't think bugspray is actually applying to clown college. Shadd on the other hand is packed and ready to go.

I do agree with this assessment though. bugspray is definitely the best elimination if we're aiming for Mafia. schadd_ also has my vote because of the possibility he's scum faking his clown scholarship applications, and if he is Jester then it's still safe for now, but bugspray would be my preference.

[Radical Rat]

But jester wants to be eliminated and Mafia doesn't

There's a notable playstyle difference

And yet, paradoxically, in order for Jesters to be eliminated they must play as though they do not. And for the Mafia to not be eliminated, they may find the best defense is to act as though they do.
Which then also means the opposites are true for both as well, and so begins an endless spiral of WIFOM, where it becomes nigh impossible to tell how many layers of deception a given slot is using.

There is method for discernment but regardless no point talking about it atm

Who do you think are jesters?

schadd_ would be my current best guess. Other than it, I don't know. POSSIBLY WINFried based on gut, but I'm not at all confident about that one.

[Radical Rat]

Additionally even if ideally they'd be identical, in practice it is unachievable

What are your other reads?

bugspray is likely Mafia
schadd_ is likely Jester
RH9 is likely Town
You and WINFried could be anywhere, but I lean Town on you and lean Jester on WINFried
AtE is Town if you're not, Mafia otherwise
Galron is confirmed Town, obviously.

[Radical Rat]

IF it is a jester flip I think the game is solved

RR, Shadd, N_M -> Jester
Bugspray, ???-> mafia
Galron, MegAzumarill, RH9, ???-> Town

WinFried/AtE making up the last mafia slot

Yeah, maybe NM could be on to something. Don’t think I want to vote bugspray anymore.

Looking through ISOs I found this

AtE who would you prefer to vote now and why

Rn, probably RR. I don’t buy his elim IC argument. I don’t think jester seriously makes that argument as you I think pointed out initially, that jester doesn’t want to touch the IC and he isn’t just voting the IC, he’s actively encouraging an elim on them. So I would elim RR for that.

~ head banger

Key note here is that they ARENT voting the IC.
IF they actually wanted IC dead they would've
Hence why i prefer jester to mafo n them

It was an idea for discussion, and I am refraining from voting the IC until that discussion has been had. Speaking of which...

[Radical Rat]

I'd like to hear from the rest of you about the whole purposely entering MeLo thing.

I know a couple of you have said no, but why? Is it just a reflex against voting Town, or have you actually thought it through and found fault with the proposed plan?

[Radical Rat]

like if jesters change playstyle when town is one good yeet away from winning then they have self outed and that gives us a better poe pool
whoever suggested that im gonna vote

Yes, that's the whole point. The Jesters are forced to change playstyles or the game ends early with them unable to pass Clown College entrance exams, thus outing themselves in the process.

Alternatively they could just do nothing to further the goals of either alignment, which then also outs them.

Scum elimination is better RIGHT NOW, but then makes it harder to separate Mafia from Jester later, because they can spend all game playing the same way

[Radical Rat]

oh wow i missed that. no, that isn't a good idea. confirmed townies are wildly +ev for town in nightless games. if you're worried about jesters scumsiding, you can execute a mafia and then let the jesters scumside & magically get town executions through, and then we're in a better position overall and we can check out who made a 180 after the mafia execution. this is assuming for the sake of argument that jesters will behave in this cookie cutter way which is also barely believable. that seems like a caricature of an idea someone would put forward to seem like a jester

But there wouldn't BE a 180 after Mafia execution unless we hit Town first is the point here.

[Radical Rat]

oh wow i missed that. no, that isn't a good idea. confirmed townies are wildly +ev for town in nightless games. if you're worried about jesters scumsiding, you can execute a mafia and then let the jesters scumside & magically get town executions through, and then we're in a better position overall and we can check out who made a 180 after the mafia execution. this is assuming for the sake of argument that jesters will behave in this cookie cutter way which is also barely believable. that seems like a caricature of an idea someone would put forward to seem like a jester

I'd like to hear from the rest of you about the whole purposely entering MeLo thing.

I know a couple of you have said no, but why? Is it just a reflex against voting Town, or have you actually thought it through and found fault with the proposed plan?

It's grown on me since but there's better ways to do it than eliminating galron. Opening the chance to hang scum instead is always better and keeps a confirmed Town alive

This is amenable to me. Though I also had further thoughts that warrant their own post...

[Radical Rat]

I think a Jester is actually actually the optimal elimination today.

The reason for this is that right now we have 4 Town and 4 Not. Mafia and Jesters both will oppose my plan, because if I'm right it catches them all, and it doesn't actually implicate anyone as anything to oppose an intentional mislim. So it would actually be impossible to send Galron to Clown College even if I were able to convince everyone of the efficacy of my plan.

However, if we kill one Jester, Town can force things because the elimination threshold is 4, and we can then establish a similar gamestate where the last Jester is forced to rapidly flip between sides, and help catch scum along the way. But at least one Jester ought to be okay with this version of the plan, because they get to win, so this one's actually possible to achieve

[Radical Rat]

Mafia and Jesters both will oppose my plan, because if I'm right it catches them all

when you say it catches mafia, are you just referring to the fact that it makes jesters become Inclined to try to hunt for mafia

Kind of.
It is contingent on us correctly identifying the non-Town slots, but then it sorta the Jesters from the Mafia fairly easily. If a Mafia winds up widely townread though, that does mean they probably win.

That's why I said it was a high risk high reward thing.

[Radical Rat]

Mafia and Jesters both will oppose my plan, because if I'm right it catches them all

when you say it catches mafia, are you just referring to the fact that it makes jesters become Inclined to try to hunt for mafia

Kind of.
It is contingent on us correctly identifying the non-Town slots, but then it sorts the Jesters from the Mafia fairly easily. If a Mafia winds up widely townread though, that does mean they probably win.

That's why I said it was a high risk high reward thing.

EBWOP

[Radical Rat]

Yes, my current proposal is, to the best of our ability, eliminate Jester > Town > Mafia > Mafia

[Radical Rat]

Right then, that works out well enough gamestate-wise.

I will need to re-evaluate reads though, but hopefully it'll be mostly smooth sailing from here on out

[Radical Rat]

What do YOU think we should do?
Why must it be others who decide your actions?

[Radical Rat]

What do YOU think we should do?
Why must it be others who decide your actions?

Ummmmm . . .



You are the one trying to direct everyone but okay.

~At

Exactly why I asked RR.

I am not at all trying to direct everyone. I offered an idea for discussion, but in no way tried to insist everyone go along with it, because I myself was unsure if it was the correct play, as evidenced by the very first post, and my adjustment over time as I thought on it more. However, only Meg actually seemed to consider it and offer useful feedback, but more importantly what concerns me with RH9, and why I felt compelled to question things, is that I haven't actually seen him assert any real stance as far as I can recall.

When I first brought up the idea, he asked if he should trust me, and not anything actually substantive about my proposal. And unless I just missed/forgot it, I haven't seen him give any significant reads or opinions on much of anything after his entrance.

And in this case it just struck me as particularly odd since the entire point was after we enter MeLo, we find the scum as a temporarily united front with the Jesters. The question of whether I will continue to entertain a Galron elimination, and what I think we should do now already have plain answers. Asking them now is just fluff.

[Radical Rat]

I want RH9 as my new hydra partner. What do you say Jingle? They aren’t cooperating with me. :/

Works for me. Radical Rat, wanna be my new hydra partner?

-tE

Sure thing, what alignment are we now?

[Radical Rat]

Mental load? As town you could post freely, as jester all the more, as scum it's important not to get sent to college - resulting in more boring-looking posting styles.

-tE

This is a very interesting point, however I don't think it necessarily applies here. For one, I don't actually think Meg's ISO is boring. Push on bugspray, easy though it may have been, is something I agreed with, obviously, and the fact that she actually gave thought to my intentional MeLo idea and offered legitimate criticism beyond "No that's stupid," is interesting to me, though perhaps my personal involvement biases me somewhat.

However, there's also the fact that the existence of Jesters is public. If I were scum, my goal would be to look like a Jester, which would involve Not being boring. Though of course, each individual would likely have a different approach, and I'm not good enough at meta reads, or confident enough in my knowledge of any of these players regardless. Except maybe N_M, but he's dead already so.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: meg
radical rat

Is there any particular reason you scumread us?

[Radical Rat]

What do YOU think we should do?
Why must it be others who decide your actions?

Now that my confusion has been cleared, I will answer this.
I think that we should discuss more before voting because we can't unvote.
I don't mean to act too passively but it has been my general stance in this game after the N_M incident that I ask other people before I perform drastic actions so that everybody has forthcoming knowledge of my intended actions.

And what drastic actions would you be considering?

Also, regarding the N_M incident...
Although I disagreed, the prevailing attitude seemed to be that eliminating a claimed Jester was the wrong play. A sentiment you seemed to agree with, since me having bad logic "eased your anxiety on me being Mafia."

So, I believe you thought it was actually E-1. But E-1 is essentially a hammer for a Jester. Though in this case Not_Mafia had already voted himself and couldn't have self-hammered, clearly you didn't check the VC before voting, so was N_M being moderately annoying really enough to make you okay with a "wrong" elimination?

[Radical Rat]

What do YOU think we should do?
Why must it be others who decide your actions?

Now that my confusion has been cleared, I will answer this.
I think that we should discuss more before voting because we can't unvote.
I don't mean to act too passively but it has been my general stance in this game after the N_M incident that I ask other people before I perform drastic actions so that everybody has forthcoming knowledge of my intended actions.

And what drastic actions would you be considering?

Also, regarding the N_M incident...
Although I disagreed, the prevailing attitude seemed to be that eliminating a claimed Jester was the wrong play. A sentiment you seemed to agree with, since me having bad logic "eased your anxiety on me being Mafia."

So, I believe you thought it was actually E-1. But E-1 is essentially a hammer for a Jester. Though in this case Not_Mafia had already voted himself and couldn't have self-hammered, clearly you didn't check the VC before voting, so was N_M being moderately annoying really enough to make you okay with a "wrong" elimination?

I am considering voting a nullread. I skimmed past the VC by accident. And yes, N_M was quite annoying.

I missed his Jester claim.

Why did you think he was begging you to vote him???

[Radical Rat]

Farewell Meg! Don't forget us in the excitement of Clown University!

[Radical Rat]

There can be no more clowning around now though.

Tentative guess is schadd_/WINfried scumteam.

[Radical Rat]

I think RH9 is the last Jester.

Reasoning is it doesn't seem like they actually have much of a goal here, like he doesn't really know what he wants to do, like a Jester that doesn't know how to actually get himself eliminated.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: WINfried
VOTE: schadd_

I think they're buddies.

[Radical Rat]

yeah i'm fairly willing to place winnie as the town. so i'll plan to vote rh9 & ate today. anyone object? no?

I object because RH9 is Jestery, and AtE is Townie

[Radical Rat]

What do you think his win condition is?

[Radical Rat]

Maybe, I just don't see him as particularly motivated one way or the other, which fits with a Jester who doesn't know how to act suspicious to me.

[Radical Rat]

To be fair, I have no idea what you meant there either

[Radical Rat]

Ah, so it was a sarcastic joke, perhaps even what one might consider..................... A jest?

[Radical Rat]

After their entry, almost all of their posts seem to be driven by town motivation. And as I said before, it wouldn't be the first time some townie did some silly bs after entering the game.

VOTE: not_mafia there has to be a firstvote

VOTE: galron

So this was the bad stuff and now just comes a wall of townpings?

does like nobody else understand the joy of voting the confirmed town person??? is Nobody upset?? frustrated?? that they don't get to do it because i did it already??

+town

ok here's my first good vote

VOTE: radical rat

• so this is a blitz game and it looks like we have a handful of dawdlers in the pl here. everytime you say "poke player" imagine youre poking me in the eye socket/temple to try to give me a headache. anyway if i want to move towards a good execution meaningfully it occurs to me to act fast
  
• i do think that radical rat voting me was a sign of someone wanting an excuse to get a vote down, which is something that non-town alignments are generally happy to do
  
• idrc if i end up voting a jester. crack eggs to make an omelette

pedit hello! i do know the voting rules and am town. i voted galron for fun, which is actually very obviously a possibility

+town

i'm not really sold that jesters will like fool around to try to get voted

+town

Well i just have the one vote & incidentally i dont believe it was from town

+town

idt jesters would do that

+town

i dont think not mafia needs to be voted necessarily

+town

for now i might place winfried as town

+town

i don't see why it is most likely that they are jester

+town

the thing about it is that any player is capable of doing some sort of jester-like performance whenever they feel like it. i think a key aspect of bugspray's play here is that they chose to vote galron.

+town

was there something that changed your mind about that

+town

sooort of neutral on azumarill. i slightly suspect that they arent a jester ?

+town

do u have any ideas as to who your partner is

+town

id be inclined to think rh9 is one of the several town. which also helps explain the period before the rep in where it felt like everyone that was posting was a wolf

+town

It's mostly this post. Like, most of this is completely NAI to me, some even slightly scum indicative, so you putting a bunch of emphasis on how it makes schadd_ town seems like you might be defending your buddy.

[Radical Rat]

It's mostly this post. Like, most of this is completely NAI to me, some even slightly scum indicative, so you putting a bunch of emphasis on how it makes schadd_ town seems like you might be defending your buddy.

What is scum indicative in there?

65 I explained earlier why I didn't like, but basically comes down to it being a very dangerous "fun" vote to make without the possibility of unvoting. My fears there did not come to pass, and later on I even came to the conclusion that eliminating Galron could have been beneficial, but I do stand by it being a very bad entrance and a very bad explanation for it.

190 is one of those posts that just. Does nothing, but kinda looks like you're hunting scum if you just skim past it. Or, y'know. The kind of post scum like to make.

281 is a bit odd, because of the "several town" bit, in contrast to the reality of there being very few Town, and its expressed sense of no other Town posting. Seems like maybe it just did the quick math of 9 - 2 Mafia, rather than also taking out the Jesters, but I could just be reading too much into it.

[Radical Rat]

yeah i'm fairly willing to place winnie as the town. so i'll plan to vote rh9 & ate today. anyone object? no?

I object because RH9 is Jestery, and AtE is Townie

I’ve been sr you this entire game, why do you tr me?

~At

Because I think your posts are coming from a place of genuine effort here, and well SOMEONE has to be Town. I thought it was RH9 for a bit, but no longer do, still don't like schadd_/WINfried, but you seem alright enough.

[Radical Rat]

yeah i'm fairly willing to place winnie as the town. so i'll plan to vote rh9 & ate today. anyone object? no?

I object!!!!

~At

Why do you object?

I mean schadd has a good reason to vote both of us.

See, it's stuff like this that smells like Jester to me.

[Radical Rat]

yeah yeah

I think it’s hella weird that you don’t care. So you either might be jester or scum trying to look like jester. I think town probably doesn’t rush their vote today.

~At

Thing is, rushing is kinda mandatory, it being a Blitz and all.

[Radical Rat]

sorry let me try something else. ohhhhhhhh god fuck!! oh shit!!! holy shit!!! ok well i thot they weren't jester so the correct thing for me to do is jsut like sit around and pester people until presmuably 1 hour before deadline or something

I think RH9 is the Jester, per my earlier posts.

Game ends if we hit Jester, yes, but it also ends if we don't hit scum, so we gotta vote someone. Out of schadd_/WINfried, I think WINfried is less likely to be Jester, but I'm fairly comfortable with either of them, which is why I've voted them.

[Radical Rat]

That is not the post I quoted, what the fuck

[Radical Rat]

yeah yeah

I think it’s hella weird that you don’t care. So you either might be jester or scum trying to look like jester. I think town probably doesn’t rush their vote today.

~At

Thing is, rushing is kinda mandatory, it being a Blitz and all.

sorry let me try something else. ohhhhhhhh god fuck!! oh shit!!! holy shit!!! ok well i thot they weren't jester so the correct thing for me to do is jsut like sit around and pester people until presmuably 1 hour before deadline or something

The game could end today if we elim jester. I don’t understand why I’m the only one saying this.

~At

THIS is what 695 was supposed to quote

[Radical Rat]

radirat how do you feel abt the fact that your plan came true

Mixed. Sucks to eliminate Town by accident, but I do still think it put us into a better spot overall, and bugspray would have probably been eliminated now if we didn't get them earlier, so I'd say it worked out alright.... Until the Meg flip.

I was unsure on them for a while, but I was actually townreading them when they self-hammered, so I guess I'm glad I don't have an incorrect Townread hanging around in Elo, though it's gotten a bit messier now because of it.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: WINfried
VOTE: schadd_

I think they're buddies.

Oh, missed this. So, I have the same question for you then. How are you so confident, neither of these flips jester?

So maybe it’s you/RH9?

I have no idea rn. Ugh.

~At

I think the way that WINfried has been consistently defending schadd_ may be an associative tell, plus I feel pretty good about my RH9 Jester read as of right now, so it's the only solve that makes sense to me

[Radical Rat]

Just a heads up, but we probably lose when deadline hits.

If Town wants to control who the elimination is, we need to make a decision and vote before the threshold goes down.

[Radical Rat]

The only way we don't lose post-deadline is if either schadd_ or I are scum, though of course I already know that I am not.

Mafia has two votes. After deadline, there will be four slots at E-2. At least one of them Must be Town. One more of them Must be either Town OR Jester. If either of those two slots are schadd_ or WINfried, Mafia votes together and wins.

If either of those two slots are AtE or RH9, and schadd_ is Town, same thing.

Additionally, because Galron is IC, and I know I'm Town, it is impossible for the currently voted players to Not contain both Mafia.

Picking at random therefore gives us a 50% chance of hitting scum, though I don't suggest ACTUALLY voting at random here, except as a last resort.

[Radical Rat]

I still want to vote AtE. 694 feels off in that they are focusing on schadd when it hasn't been the only one voting and claiming that it is 'rushing' votes. Then they claim in 704 that it is 'weird' that I'm defending schadd after I tell them I find it odd that they are focusing on schadd for something which isn't what they claimed.

This is a valid point, but I still think they're Town in spite of it. If you could miss literally everything there is to miss about the N_M situation, it seems reasonable that At could have skimmed past the single post where I voted.

[Radical Rat]

How about WINfried? If you don't think it's schadd_, it isn't you, and it isn't me, then mathematically it has to be him as AtE's hypothetical partner.

[Radical Rat]

AtE's votes right now are schadd_, WINfried, and Galron.

RH9 and myself have both posted without hammering.

This means that either AtE is scum, or both scum are already on their wagon. Galron is of course not scum, so there are exactly two possibilities right now.

Either I was right and it's schadd_/WINfried, or it's AtE and anyone but Galron. I think WINfried is most likely scum if AtE flips red, BUT I also don't think AtE flips red, so I really don't want to flip them. If they're Town/Jester though, then WINfried is guaranteed scum, so that's the best elimination here.

We eliminate WINfried, and when he flips red, we can sort it out between schadd_/AtE

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: radical rat
VOTE: AtE

Also, just wanna say that voting me is an incredibly bad move here. If deadline hits, scum double votes me and autowins.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: radical rat
VOTE: AtE

Also, just wanna say that voting me is an incredibly bad move here. If deadline hits, scum double votes me and autowins.

Actually nevermind, AtE dies first in this case.

Still a bad vote though

[Radical Rat]

I've said all I can really say, and I need to go to work.

Note though that when deadline hits and the threshold drops, AtE gets sent to clown College first, so someone needs to hammer WINfried, though the only one who would is Galron, so.... Galron please do that?

[Radical Rat]

Well fuck, I've just been wrong on all my reads this game huh?

I do still think RH9 is Jester, and WINfried has the highest chance of being AtE's partner, so... Welcome to the Town I guess, schadd_?

VOTE: WINfried

I know it's early, but we're not in Elo anymore, and I really don't expect to change my mind on this one.

[Radical Rat]

I don't understand the jeezy weezies.

You got (mostly) confirmed not Mafia, and RH9 also did, albeit slightly less so. Regardless of which of you is the Jester, WINfried kinda has to be scum, yeah? So it's not really a particularly risky vote.

[Radical Rat]

Radical Rat wanting me to hammer Winnie smacks of maf.

It was the only way to stop what I thought was a mislim about to lose us the game. And WINfried is scum anyway, so I stand by my actions.

[Radical Rat]

I'll cast 2 votes

There's only one Mafia left, what's the point of voting twice if you're Town?

[Radical Rat]

Alright, and if you vote Town, Mafia + Jester can hammer that. The more votes you make, the higher the chance of you missing and allowing that.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: winfried

willing to bet it all that this slot isnt jester. he handed out townreads pretty handily which i think is just something that prevents votes on you (compare to megaz who hardly did it at all). moreover seeing ate townbinned in 385 is interesting, and he's playing this day phase like someone that does in fact need to get two town executions done

schadd, remind. me if Winfried ever mentioned a world where bugspray flips Town before they flipped VT.

I'm not schadd_, but I did check, and no he did not.

[Radical Rat]

i guess i'm willing to say

my intention is to vote radical rat tomorrow

. the reason i say this is because there is possibility a kingmaking situation being able to happen tomorrow if winnie flips town, which like sucks and i don't think that should count. in particular it wolud just come down to whether galron & i make it to the buzzer at the start of the last day before mafia & jester do. so i'm declaring my vote here (subject to change) in case that like the pre-emptive vote would get to be accepted i guess.

Yeah, after AtE's flip I was just hoping to lose a 1v1 with WINfried.

I'd noticed lately that I tend to get townread as scum and scumread as town, so I figured I'd just play mostly pro-Town and hope for the best/worst

[Radical Rat]

One piece of information I noticed but chose to withhold was that RH9 hammering AtE actually didn't confirm a thing. AtE was doomed to die unless someone else hammered, so all RH9 did was shave a couple hours off the day.

However, I thought letting people think it confirmed him as not Mafia would be good for my narrative that he was Jester, so I didn't point that one out.

[Radical Rat]

God, why does mobile keep adding random quotes to my posts???

[Radical Rat]

That post doesn't actually preclude AtE from being Jester though? Both scum on the wagon could support either Jester or Town.

[Radical Rat]

Yeah but there was the possibility that AtE is neither scum

nor

both scum on the wagon. Scum would have only hammered when they could have been sure he is not a jester.

I was working under the assumption that scum would just take the shot anyway, because I would have if I were scum.