Mini Normal 2253 | Frogs! | Game Over

[kennyk]

Since this is a frogs game and I have that word in my name TWICE, I think you can all see how I deserve to win by default. Everyone please respond accordingly

VOTE: Dwlee99

Your name suggests that you are two frogs. So in a game named Frogs! you should be conftown just by that. But your avatar shows a dragon, not a frog. So you are a dragin who wants to be two frogs. Or in other words: You are scum trying to look townie.

I guess in this stage of the game this deserves a

VOTE: frogsfrogs

Wohoo, one scum found in pregame.

[kennyk]

ok it is srs bzns time

i unironically have a townping on frogsfrogs for 8. i see they're a relatively new account, and the posts strikes me pretty tonally pure, in a way that i think newb!scum would struggle to make.

@frogsfrogs, do you have experience playing mafia elsewhere?

also, i unironically think bugspray is >rand likely to be scum.

also also, @kenny pls get avatar, if everyone has an avi, the game is much easier to read for me.

So is it much easier now to recognise your enemy scumtisi?

Why do you think bugspray is more likely to be scum than not?

[kennyk]

i genuinely do like frogsfrogs's tone for town. and considering they said they're a newbie...

@kenny, is your vote just random, or do you think they could be scum?

As I said, I came to the conclusion that frogsfrogs is scum pregame with their name relating to the name of the game and the avatar not matching the name. This is an absolute solid scumread and I am not voting anywhere else.

But now back to serious mode. It was a totally random vote, but the excuse of the name seemed to fit. Do I think frogsfrogs could be scum? Yes, they

could

be. Knowing nothing about the setup I would guess, that the chances of a scum!frogsfrogs are about 1 in 4 (assuming a 2 to 7 ratio between mafia and scum).

On a sidenote: I would call anyone with a join date "October 19, 2021" at least a newbie to this board. So calling frogsfrogs a newbie without checking their games seems kind of logic. I know it is possible, that they had mafia experience elsewhere. I myself fall under this category as well (about a dozen games on greylabyrinth and two on this site with a different account more than 15 years ago).

[kennyk]

it really should be obvious that it wasn't a real vote

Yeah, it should. But how about your votes? As far as I can see, you voted three times now. Why this rapid vote shifting? Is it some kind of scheme to muddy the water and make vote analysing more difficult in case you flip scum?

[kennyk]

@ Andante: I see you at the bottom of the activity list. But I read elsewhere, that you are an "extreme hyperposter". Your postcount in other games seem to confirm this evaluation. Wha are you so different in this game so far?

I know, that I am at the bottom, too, but that is my normal style I guess.

[kennyk]

dang... im never voted in rvs

Dang that’s crazy VOTE: andante

Reading Andantes post I had the same thought of voting just for the lols.

I have another question for Andante: So if wagoning on someone (who is coincidently you) brings us nowhere and asking questions isn't allowed, too, what do you think we should do? Is this some kind of "how could you even dar to think i am scum"-tactic I have seen on other scum?

[kennyk]

@ Andante: I see you at the bottom of the activity list. But I read elsewhere, that you are an "extreme hyperposter". Your postcount in other games seem to confirm this evaluation. Wha are you so different in this game so far?

I know, that I am at the bottom, too, but that is my normal style I guess.

however, I do want to sr kenny. Feels like kenny is trying to set up a reason to push me/join that wagon

you WANT TO?
that's such an absurd verbage and seem so unnatural;

Yes, the wording seems ... interesting. I had the same thought reading it, but wasn't sure if I missed a nuance in the english language (I am not a native speaker). But as you mentioned it, too, it really seems to be odd.

If I wanted to join the wagon I just would have done so. This early on I wouldn't really have needed an excuse for that. Just a short "Let's see where this gets us" and of we go. But I just asked a question about something that seemed odd in my eyes. Andante answered it in a satisfying manner. And than there's this post about you wanting to scumread me. And just a few minutes later without any real reason she voted Meg. Now I feel like I am being set up, by throwing a little dirt in my direction and hopping off to the next taregt.

[kennyk]

It's noticeable though, that Andante/kenny is looking kind of weird. I don't want to call it all bark no bite as it was too few for that. But it's just more or less fos at each other with no real consequence.

So @kenny:
What are your thoughts on the current wagon and where do you stand after Andante's answers and recent behaviour?

In general I don't like to throw around my serious votes like a machine gun. I like to feel quite certain, that I hunt down scum with it (statistics show I am not too good at this, but I guess that's part of the game). I am definitely not certain enough to vote Andante. Especially I won't put her at E-1 right now. I don't want to risk a fast end of D1. I like to get more information about everyone.

But honestly Andante is on a good way to get my vote. Post 120 really feels awkward.
"Without me, no one is doing much" --> An ISO shows how much is done by Andante: some filler posts, small interaction with Datisi, whinning about being voted, wanting to scumread me, vote on Meg
"I’m just highly annoyed all attention is on me, like it’s genuinely wasting time." --> Drawing more attention and saying "I am not scum" with other words
"I don’t make good reads under pressure" --> This really begs for a vote
"I think that answers all the questions/concerns thrown my way" --> No! Why wanting to scumread me and than voting Meg in the next post?
"like seriously I’m the only one even TRYING to play the game here" --> See first comment

[kennyk]

I wanna keep Kenny around

Yeah.

Wohoo, once in my life I am popular. Or are you (both?) just trying to pocket me?

[kennyk]

Well fmpov I'm the least likely scum so...

That's what scum always says.

[kennyk]

My head is killing me, so no in depth comments from me today.

[kennyk]

So I’m not saying that Meg looks good by any means but when you compare them both they’re doing the same thing just kind coasting. One just jumped on a wagon. But I mean this early I didn’t mind it cos it was a RVS that turned into a “I don’t mind staying here” but if they continue to not scum hunt then that’ll be a problem.



I just wanted to focus on andante

I get you on this with both basically doing the same. For me it's rather that Meg feels more "calculated" while Andante just lashed out. If Andante continues like that it's indeed a problem though in terms of readability.

My problem with Andantescum is that, considering the wagon, with kenny and me (while I am leaning more on town now I was considering voting Andante on first read) this is the only wagon so far that could have gone through, at least from my point of view. If scum her partner is either really passive or bussed. Bussing aside the only viable partner for Andante would be dwlee, maybe frogs to an extent and I am not really feeling that. Like I get it's preflip, however I tend to get skeptical in such scenarios.

The wagon in an Andatescum-scenario could have many reasons.

First her scumpartner could have been on the wagon and relied on the fact that town wants to gain information and doesn't lim too fast on day one. If E-1 happened (other than the vote Andante and vote bugspray in the same post) the other scum could also easily unvote with the argument "not so fast, we need more infos".

Second it could also be, that either you or me is the other scum. Even if a lot of other players read us as town, we could well be good playing scum. Maybe it is even one of the not yet voters waiting for E-1 to hammer Andante to gain towncred (allthough I doubt it. It would only make sense if the other one had any scum extra power).

[kennyk]

bugspray is being replaced.

I know it is very likely just a coincidence. But it strikes me as odd, that Datisi metaed bugspray and bugsprays reaction is him needing a replacement.

[kennyk]

As there is this thing called christmas coming and conventions want me to be with my family I have to say:

@mod:
V/LA until the 26th

[kennyk]

I am back and will hopefully be able to post some more on D2.
I agree with Meg about the flip. I am not convinced frogs is scum.

[kennyk]

@Meg: too bad, you don't and can't have, what Datisi is looking for (or at least what I think, that you think he is looking for)

[kennyk]

If house doesn't show up in 24 hours I take that as a scum claim and I'm back to voting house

Why? Not like they can scheme with their partners anyhow

why what? I'm not sitting here for a week just to vote out maf. Meg, if you're town, house is literally the answer, I'm not making this more complicated than it has to be

I guess we shouldn't start to elim too quickly this early. It is not that the game is solved and we have a breaking strategy. While I have my doubts about house, too, there are a lot of possibilities, that he is town. And in this case a fast elim isn't good for our information level.

[kennyk]

I'd rather not discuss it atm

OK, but we will discuss it later on.

[kennyk]

If house doesn't show up in 24 hours I take that as a scum claim and I'm back to voting house

Why? Not like they can scheme with their partners anyhow

why what? I'm not sitting here for a week just to vote out maf. Meg, if you're town, house is literally the answer, I'm not making this more complicated than it has to be

I guess we shouldn't start to elim too quickly this early. It is not that the game is solved and we have a breaking strategy. While I have my doubts about house, too, there are a lot of possibilities, that he is town. And in this case a fast elim isn't good for our information level.

if house is town who's maf? if there's all these possibilities... there's literally only 2 options

With 7 players left, there are 6 options for everyone except scum. Some might be more likely than others, but they exist.
For example you ticked me off your list of possible partners, because I left my vote on frogs before I left for V/LA. It sure isn't too likely, that scum partners do that. But it was the only vote on that slot at that time.

[kennyk]

wouldn't it be really funny if i

VOTE: dwlee

I don't see the fun in this. And why this shift to dwlee?

[kennyk]

Datisi
Megazumarill
Andante
Testarossa
House
Kennyk

This list contains at least one scum

Does that help

No that doesn't help, because this list isn't complete: Dwlee99 is missing.

[kennyk]

At those who think Meg and frogs can't be partners: Why?

I think they can't be partners because frogs flipped scum and I believe Meg is town. And before the next question arrives: I think Meg is town because of one post they made which makes absolutely no sense as scum. No, I won't quote it here. I quess scum didn't see it and its implications, so I leave it at that.

[kennyk]

Had some time at hand and did some ISOing and I started with a player I had no real read about: Dwlee99.

Here is what I got:
First post: frogs = conftown for profile picture
Next comes a series of back and forth postings between them and Datisi stating Datisi is scum (For no real reason?)
Post 143/144 vote on Bugspray (with the E-1 intermezzo on Andante). No reason is given why they voted Bugspray.
Quoting this post frogs asks them, what they think about Andante (no word on why the vote is on bugs)
Answer: Andante seems townish. Frogs is still conftown
Post 175: All scum is in Datisi/Emperor/Meg/Bugspray
Some more back and forth with Datisi
Post 220: readlist, frogs takes Datisis seat in the scumgroup because of their readlist and the slayers gambit. ??? on Meg and Emporer
Post 333: E-1 on frogs
Content on day 2: nothing noteworthy

frogs on the other hand had the following interaction with Dwlee99:
First Post: vote on Dwlee
Post 202: Dwlee is one of two scumleans
Post 285: Asks Meg why they switched their vote to Dwlee. Later wants to know why Meg thinks Dwlee is scummy
Post 352: VT claim and: "Meg/Dwlee nor Meg/Andante can't be maf together but I'd bet at least one of them."

I know it could be coincidents, but...
... both players first posts are about each other.
... both read the other player as scum in their readlists (distancing?)
... Dwlee hopping on the wagon more than 100 posts after the readlist. Part of a bus?
... further distancing with frogs final post. The focus is on Meg, but Dwlee is there, too.
... the ??? in the readlist could have been there to signal, that they believed those could be PRs. Meg had had some pressure on them and was seen somewhat dubious, so a d2 miselim could be a possible result. So the other ??? had to be NKed.
... there is not much of a scumhunting attitude in Dwlees posts.

This is not a solid case, but as good as any, so I
VOTE: Dwlee99
now. Maybe I'll switch, if further ISOs (hopefully later today) reveal a more promissing target.

[kennyk]

... the ??? in the readlist could have been there to signal, that they believed those could be PRs. Meg had had some pressure on them and was seen somewhat dubious, so a d2 miselim could be a possible result. So the other ??? had to be NKed.

why would scum signal to each other who tprs might be in the main thread when they have a scum pt to talk in?

I guess that it's sometimes better to reread a post before clicking on submit. I changed the wording of that line, but it went from bad to worse. The final version should have been "... the ??? in the readlist could have been

a

signal, that they believed those could be PRs.".
It was definitely not meant to be understood as a kind of communication between scummies. I do in fact know, that scum has day PT (although not from own experience).

[kennyk]

Andante is in a hurry to kill a townie.

Sads.

Guess I'll go down swinging.

VOTE: andante

If this thread wasn't accessible for minors I would make a very bad pun about this post.

I guess your swinging is coming too late, as Meg intends to hammer you. This is very wired, because some people in this game are convinced House --> Meg is the way to win this game. So if Meg hammers House, it only gets them to be hammered sooner

[kennyk]

Nk draw attempt

That was what we suspected, too, in the mason PT. Btw. did you see the crumb, house?

[kennyk]

gg and thank @ all

Yes, Datisi and I were the masons.

Too bad the mafia PT won't be opened, as it would be very interesting to see their speculation about the setup. The Jack Of All Trades-role leaves a lot of room about the town PRs I guess. That all those extra roles are effectively worthless with a masonry is a major drawback for scum.