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[the worst]

hey pals guess what

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpius

First scumread! So exciting!

this is the page 1 vanity vote I would have made too bahaha

[the worst]

Good morning. What an interesting start to a game. Please to be here for it.

Andante is the obvious elephant in the room, but I'm not overly concerned at this point. I know people can get really talky when they're scum but eh I'm mostly seeing enthusiasm. The response to #33 wasn't stellar, but also doesn't give me enough red flags.

If I was going to pick a direction to go now, it'd be VOTE: Natalya.

Andante is literally my favourite poster ive ever seen in my entire life. Good vote.

[the worst]

i have some thoughts on the game but won't say them yet VOTE: scorpio

would suggest you say them lol. I think scorpio is getting harder to wagon at the time you made this post so you've got some clout to accumulate if you wanna get away with cruising thru!

[the worst]

And why the unvote?

still my RVS

the gamestate of day one only changes if people are making reads and pushing others. unvoting means youre inadvertently freezing the gamestate - any reason you elected to unvote rather than vote somewhere else?

I'm seeing intent to self defend from you (you dont want to be eliminated), I'm seeing some very safe townreads from you, I'm seeing a vague "there's scum in [retti, natalya, t3]" from you -- but your vote isnt following thru on the noises you're making.

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpius E-2

Fua & Andante are town. Retti probationary town. Oman is too lucid and considered and I'm scared to have a read on them.

[the worst]

interested to hear from the second cutest duck itt, and jackson, followed egix
double triple super mega interested to hear from azaariah

[the worst]

+1
Andante comes across as very genuine and inquisitive. Her questioning of Natalya feels like a Town who wants to get the game forward, which is congruent with her earlier statements.
Natalya... idk? It's hard to separate the fluff from readable content. The one thing that stuck out to me was 56. From what I've seen there's a general sentiment from players who have played with me before that I'm hard to read. From this, Natalya is lean town. It's also possible that Natalya was reaction testing Scorpious, in which case she's even more towny.
Retti is a (possible) scumread. His point about Natalya in 61 is eerily similar to reasoning I've used as scum before to justifly shade on someone immediately after RVS. In FIA WRC, another player hyped up a tone scumread on a newbie. Scum me immediately shaded that player and got an early wagon on them. The reason I say possibly, is because Retti isn't me, and this might be a legitimate tell town him uses.
Scorpious is nullscum. His reaction to Natalya's 'scumread' was bad but I want to excuse it as an older player coming back to the site and feeling out-of-place with the site meta.

t3 i know this post has copped some heat but it's also been sticking in my mind

you're v/la atm and i'm going to define your playstyle as like, nonchalant, and i don't think you'll find that offensive. what inspired you to put your limited time into posting a flashy but really half-baked read post on page 3 of a game? & you've cited two scumreads, one loose townlean read, and one townread here; why are you keeping your vote on your single townread?

[the worst]

I think I’m starting to remember why I stopped playing here. You don’t allow people to play how they want without making them suffer for it.
All I’m getting here is a bunch of people that are familiar with one another.You all have a zillion alts and are so comfortable in your ways, when someone comes and plays a different way, you throw wagons in their face. Then you mis-whatever you call it now and laugh about it.

I guess that’s why it took this game 3 weeks to fill up after I signed up,because not enough site regulars wanted to play.

can only speak for myself, but... the only person here who i'd say i'm tight with here is jackson who isn't really around yet. i've played with egix, andres & uglyduck (none of them in a long-ass time ) and read a few games t3 has been in. afaict people are putting in the miles to work out where you're coming from, and you're chosing to bemoan being voted + perceived clique culture instead of respond? i had no issue with the way you approached the game. i'm seeking to understand where you're coming from.

genuinely curious about your mindset wrt points raised in 142.

And why the unvote?

still my RVS

the gamestate of day one only changes if people are making reads and pushing others. unvoting means youre inadvertently freezing the gamestate - any reason you elected to unvote rather than vote somewhere else?

I'm seeing intent to self defend from you (you dont want to be eliminated), I'm seeing some very safe townreads from you, I'm seeing a vague "there's scum in [retti, natalya, t3]" from you -- but your vote isnt following thru on the noises you're making.

[the worst]

t3 if you had like, a reflexive vig shot that you had to use in the next

10 seconds after you finish reading this post!!!

who would you shoot?

[the worst]

VOTE: egix

[the worst]

I am

[the worst]

idk, catching up, thought I'd react to this though, and hey, here's my first "true piece of content" for yall

i think like, ~assertively null~ is about where i landed on that post from scorp as well. it could go either way and i think i'd rather see scorp's analysis on others than see scorp's reaction to being wagoned more.

i have thoughts on your next post but won't speak for retti so will shelve that.

How so? I’m not going to vote someone every time they do something I don’t like..

How do you view this post?

I think it makes sense for town!you to vote for someone if you think they made "the worst post of the game" rather than keep your vote on your RVS which means really nothing.

The fact that you don't really see your vote as a tool to pressure/attack people that you suspect makes me think you are not very interested in scumhunting.

Uhh what? you SR someone for not voting? I mean, my method of scumhunting doesn't typically involve talking with my vote? Like, engaging with people and talking to them is better than just a simple (Vote X)

i agree.
do you think it's a playstyle difference between natalya & scorpious or do you think natalya is pushing scorpious opportunistically?

VOTE: Scorpius E-2

Fua & Andante are town. Retti probationary town. Oman is too lucid and considered and I'm scared to have a read on them.

What made you decide to put Scorp on E-2?

i'm a punk who does as they please
mmm originally it was a whim. i like big wagons, and i was curious to see if anything else happened. it lost a lot of interest to me when scorp made the post abt clique culture etc.

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

oh heck yeah i love a spicy read. my townread on andante is like, super lazy and premature, but i do think she's advancing the gamestate in a way that tends towards clarity rather than deception. i'm reading tea leaves here tho.

hope you don't mind me being granular. from meta analysis, do you think there's a particular mindset we should be looking for from andante to indicate her alignment? what struck you as different here (even if it's just like, a sentence or some gut feeling, what sparked that feeling?)

a game of 13 is usually 10:3 which means voting someone out because they're hard to read flips scum ~23% of the time. voting someone out because they randed scum works 100% of the time. so i'd rather vote out scum in this game, than vote out skilled scum players.

[the worst]

my initial thoughts were that andante seemed very explain-y, overexplain-y but i wasn't reading closely so i'll give that a reassessment probably sometime tomorrow.

ah i didn't see this in preview edit. i'm holding my breath for tomorrow.

[the worst]

> i'm a punk who does as they please
mmm originally it was a whim. i like big wagons, and i was curious to see if anything else happened. it lost a lot of interest to me when scorp made the post abt clique culture etc.
* So the genuine frustration (which 100% can come from either alignment) changed your mind, but that was it? like, what are your thoughts on the whole "Natalya SRs Scorp for not voting" cause I think that's like the only legit reason for the wagon, and everyone else is voting to vote cause "we're not allowed to vote no one"

the frustration didn't change my mind on anything - Scorp defaulting to assuming that we're all a big clique picking on him for being different made me consider that the wagon was probably not going to accomplish anything.

ugh i want to vote azaariah as well but i've committed to voting egix to pocket t3. such is life.

[the worst]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

you make it sound like the above post was accompanied by a vote. but it wasn't for a reason.

just like, out of interest, you seem to have a lot of time to react and defend yourself for someone who won't be around to elaborate on reads until tomorrow?
i think your current path is going to do a lot to make you look scummy, and v little to advance your solve. could you try and elaborate on your reads instead?

[the worst]

ugh i want to vote azaariah as well

Er, Why?

because I'm finding them noncommittal and I think escalating the pressure against them with three votes within a page would force them to get spicier.

[the worst]

ugh i want to vote azaariah as well but i've committed to voting egix to pocket t3. such is life.

Posts like this don't really help me not sr you lol

do it I dare u

[the worst]

It feels like worst was angling to take advantage of Andante's over the top reaction to Aza there and escalate the tensions between them.

VOTE: the worst

I mean, correct, but I'm positioning myself centre-conflict because I think Aza needs to be pressed.

[the worst]

y'all are so wise and observant

[the worst]

Wow. the worst, this is your fave poster, huh?

yas she has such powerful energy its magnetic.

[the worst]

i see you tactically lurking

[the worst]

what else would you have one do on day 1? what have you done that analyzes the game? what has anyone done?

This is such a weird, random pop-in. I'm pushing on things I find suspicious and asking questions to people to try to figure out if they're for real or bullshitting.

What are YOU doing to analyze the game?

ugh i want to vote azaariah as well

Er, Why?

because I'm finding them noncommittal and I think escalating the pressure against them with three votes within a page would force them to get spicier.

Okay, so...why talk about doing it, rather than actually doing it?

I was doing it until you asked and now I'm talking about it. Something something "polite discourse" something.

[the worst]

VOTE: Jackson

Whereas Aza is writing out Aza's thought process on why Aza has particular reads and that feels more solvy/moving the game forward like Aza is actively figuring out who is good/bad.

Would you prefer I write 4 paragraphs of totally noncommittal content? I can do that..

After further consideration and deliberation with certain experts and professionals, it is my opinion that 4 paragraphs of totally noncommittal content may or may not be beneficial to certain players in this game.

I’m also getting back into the groove with the site mechanics too so hopefully my content will improve in line with that enough to be more effective

Mechanics are chilled, but I'd be interested to see your thoughts on things as they develop (wagons are always a good start, or if you have thoughts about the good/bad faith folks exhibit).

[the worst]

Ignore this waterbird, you already started doing that.

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

Do you think scum is more likely to post something like you did or would they just sit on what amounts
To essentially to “town reads”? In your opinion.

i dont think it depends on the person rather than the alignment.

Forgive me. Can you clarify this?

Suspect they're positing that certain people play this way regardless of alignment. Do you expect it's a quality aligned with scum more than town?

[the worst]

i still think fua and andante both have different brands of "it walks like town and quacks like town, ergo" which makes me demotivated to critically rethink my townreads on d1. just binning for now. azaariah is kind of trending that way in like, an even more tonal/superficial way.

egix is i think my only spicy townread. i think i want to townread natalya but i don't because i feel like i'm waiting for like, where she's going next, if that makes sense. there's been talk about proactive vs. reactive players and their relationship to alignment. i think natalya is like kinda a subversive case of this. she's definitely on the reactive side of the spectrum, but i don't think it's in an inward-focused/agenda indicative way? more like, she only really reacts to things that pique her interest. i feel like i'm going to have an easier time reading natalya later.

t3 and scorp are big buckets of "mmm huh" because like, the more i try to understand where either of them are coming from wrt approaching solving the game, the less certain i feel that i can divine their alignment. think scorp needs to be given some space to do scorp things and i don't think their convo with fua is going anywhere unfortunately.

i want to have a tea party with oman and andante. i would not be surprised if i just waffle on oman until there's a couple of flips. they have the kind of playstyle where they read things and analyse things and then do things and it scares me because i'm a lame yet adorable hyperposter who has like 3 original thoughts per quarter. i think what they're pushing presents as inquisitive more than opportunistic (there's some ~things~ happening which i think analytical scum would have had a better chance to capitalise on => if oman is scum and they're as sharp as i fear they are then they're making decisions which sacrifice good optics).

retti is pressing buttons which is p cool, i haven't decided how i'm approaching solving their slot yet. i'm finding their push on me a bit uninteresting. honestly i'm old grumpy and experienced enough to either (1) make decisions to look a certain way and proceed accordingly, or (2) firmly posit that i'm doing the first thing and double down on it for no reason. i get why they think what i'm doing looks bad. i don't get why they think what i'm doing is scum-aligned. in broad strokes it might be fair to say i think this applies to a lot of what they're doing; they asking questions and making points but i'm kind of vibing til i see a bit more of like, where they're going with this.


i have literally no read on andres, uglyducko or jackson. andres had a cute rvs but is experienced enough to fake a cute rvs. literally none of them have a weak scumgames so i doubt we've got a team of just straight frozen scum but it's p hard to resist the urge to torture them for now. i do think jackson superficially has like, the highest scum equity of the trio.

[the worst]

hey pals what's everyone's favourite colour?


fua/scorp is this discourse helping either of you sort the other

[the worst]

what is the difference between a tension headache and a migraine

sorry, wrong tab

[the worst]

JacksonVirgo has requested replacement

</3
my poor clique
it suffers

[the worst]

u could totally vote azaariah I doubt you're alone

pedit: heck ye

[the worst]

VOTE: UglyDuck

I know you.

good to see you again
VOTE: Andres

gonna call this scum v. scum for the meme d1 solve

[the worst]

Its kinda abstract. When t3 mentioned that egix would be his first choice of vig I realised egix feels fairly like, exposed, in this gamestate. there's a pretty bare minimum he could get away with doing to get by while there's tension between other slots and I don't think he's interested in doing that. in better words it just like he's not making any effort whatsoever to look good. Feels more like he's just playing at his own pace.

[the worst]

Trying to expand on my townread on Egix feels like trying to explain a shitty townread on a scumbuddy who you dont need to interact with. I'm going to devolve and just yell "it's a gut feeling!!!", throw away my toys and walk away.

[the worst]

I don't know how to react without seeming condescending, so biting the bullet. Could you expand on what you're asking me?

[the worst]

That was @andante btw

Yo t3 is here let's goooo

This is specifically so we don't look partnered when he flips scum btw

Hey I started pocketing t3 first find your own pocket

[the worst]

The numbers after names? Post count this phase I believe

[the worst]

Iso # with most recent vote? unsure

[the worst]

I don't know how to react without seeming condescending, so biting the bullet. Could you expand on what you're asking me?

I mean like

> Trying to expand on my townread on Egix feels like trying to explain a shitty townread on a scumbuddy who you dont need to interact with. I'm going to devolve and just yell "it's a gut feeling!!!", throw away my toys and walk away.

why do you *have* to have a tr on Egix now? can't just be null? idk, reading your posts it's like you're going "I have to have a read on egix" like, no you don't?? idk, might be misunderstanding what you're saying

reread last pg and see if you follow?

[the worst]

I can probably be a bit more charitable. I do kinda have a twinging gut read on Egix. Its hard to qualify so I didn't. Then I was asked to qualify so I did.

[the worst]

Trying to expand on my townread on Egix feels like trying to explain a shitty townread on a scumbuddy who you dont need to interact with. I'm going to devolve and just yell "it's a gut feeling!!!", throw away my toys and walk away.

Its not...stellar. But I understand where you're coming from.



Its hard at the moment to talk about whether scum have been opportunistic or not when nothing has actually had any momentum. There hasn't been an opportunity for scum to push for early hammers or anything. We've maxed out at, what, -3? I can't see scum trying too much on D1 to push momentum anywhere.

At this phase of D1, I'd say that not being opportunistic doesn't matter much when there's no opportunities on the table.

Look that's fair, that kind of helps me explain why my mind is being tugged a certain way.

I think a lot of proactive scum play is finding sneaky ways to create your own damn opportunities. gamestate has been slow so if I had to take a punt, I'd say scum are more focused on establishing themselves or staying under the radar than assertively looking for opportunity.

[the worst]

the worst making me play mind games here.... I don't have much time, figured I'd jump in, talk, leave, guess it's time to leave. new JV and T3... yall got this!!!

I'll recycle the same question I asked T3 earlier what were you hoping to accomplish with this pop-in? Why did asking me that question advance what you were trying to accomplish?

[the worst]

I think retti/egix would be like, my fav pair of wagons rn.

[the worst]

retti

Summarize the case on Retti for me?

I don't have one and that's why I'd love to see retti suffer a lil

[the worst]

the worst making me play mind games here.... I don't have much time, figured I'd jump in, talk, leave, guess it's time to leave. new JV and T3... yall got this!!!

I'll recycle the same question I asked T3 earlier what were you hoping to accomplish with this pop-in? Why did asking me that question advance what you were trying to accomplish?

oh easy, I wanna engage with you and figure out your alignment, I don't like all the "I can't read the worst" like ok whatever... just talk to people.. easy. and reading that I was like "why do you feel like you have to explain a tr on egix??" felt odd to say. and I'm not entirely sure what you were saying.

honestly, I was gonna read from 280, but meh, I'll save those reactions for later, scum is not prepared for what I'm doing after finals lol

Was I genuinely just confusing or did you not catch Oman asking for me to explain Egix?

[the worst]

Andante..... have you cracked out the whiskey without me :c

[the worst]

retti is pressing buttons which is p cool, i haven't decided how i'm approaching solving their slot yet. i'm finding their push on me a bit uninteresting. honestly i'm old grumpy and experienced enough to either (1) make decisions to look a certain way and proceed accordingly, or (2) firmly posit that i'm doing the first thing and double down on it for no reason. i get why they think what i'm doing looks bad. i don't get why they think what i'm doing is scum-aligned. in broad strokes it might be fair to say i think this applies to a lot of what they're doing; they asking questions and making points but i'm kind of vibing til i see a bit more of like, where they're going with this.

It specifically felt like you were trying to take advantage of andante getting into it with Aza in what is probably TvT and were making overtures toward voting Aza, which I Did Not Like because they're one of my few solid townreads, and your justification was that they were being "noncommittal" and you "wanted to increase the pressure", which, nominally, is

fine

but...if you wanted to do that, why not just

actually do it

? The problem is what you were doing

doesn't actually increase pressure in a meaningful way

, it just looks like angling to slide onto a potential growing wagon?

when? lol

[the worst]

you raise a good point.

[the worst]

retti is pressing buttons which is p cool, i haven't decided how i'm approaching solving their slot yet. i'm finding their push on me a bit uninteresting. honestly i'm old grumpy and experienced enough to either (1) make decisions to look a certain way and proceed accordingly, or (2) firmly posit that i'm doing the first thing and double down on it for no reason. i get why they think what i'm doing looks bad. i don't get why they think what i'm doing is scum-aligned. in broad strokes it might be fair to say i think this applies to a lot of what they're doing; they asking questions and making points but i'm kind of vibing til i see a bit more of like, where they're going with this.

It specifically felt like you were trying to take advantage of andante getting into it with Aza in what is probably TvT and were making overtures toward voting Aza, which I Did Not Like because they're one of my few solid townreads, and your justification was that they were being "noncommittal" and you "wanted to increase the pressure", which, nominally, is

fine

but...if you wanted to do that, why not just

actually do it

? The problem is what you were doing

doesn't actually increase pressure in a meaningful way

, it just looks like angling to slide onto a potential growing wagon?

when? lol

What? Last night, 232 then 260, which was why I voted you in the first place, because A) I disagreed and thought Aza was p. damn towny and B) it didn't really seem like you were interested in sorting Aza, it felt posture-y

doesn't actually increase pressure in a meaningful way

in what fashion does expressing interest in voting someone someone who is in a precarious position in the gamestate

not

increase pressure?;

it just looks like angling to slide onto a potential growing wagon?

please note i did literally every part of this

except for

slide onto a potential growing wagon. including several posts splitting hairs with Aza to work out what their angle was.

were my several posts asking Aza to commit to reads were disinterested in sorting and "posture-y"? was me pressing aza to elaborate and then expressing interest in their being wagoned

not

clearly intended to increase pressure? did i not elect to

not

jump on their potentially growing wagon?
I'm happy you have a different opinion about Aza. variety is the spice of life.

i've written up a lengthy response/retort which i've saved as a draft because i don't think you'll like it all that much. i'm not saying i'm clearly town here or particularly easy to read, ftr. i'm a big fan of being scumread and cased day one, i'm possible to eliminate early but i'm

remarkably

trustrating to read accurately on day one. but what you're suggesting i'm doing here is so lost in buzzwords and tryna look cute that it's coming out perpendicular to reality.

i think it's like, extremely clear accounting for the below posts leading up to my "i'd vote aza" that my intent is to build pressure and whatever but if you've already decided that your warped version of reality is perfect then go off or whatever

Spoiler:

i have some thoughts on the game but won't say them yet VOTE: scorpio

would suggest you say them lol. I think scorpio is getting harder to wagon at the time you made this post so you've got some clout to accumulate if you wanna get away with cruising thru!

interested to hear from the second cutest duck itt, and jackson, followed egix
double triple super mega interested to hear from azaariah

idk, catching up, thought I'd react to this though, and hey, here's my first "true piece of content" for yall

i think like, ~assertively null~ is about where i landed on that post from scorp as well. it could go either way and i think i'd rather see scorp's analysis on others than see scorp's reaction to being wagoned more.

i have thoughts on your next post but won't speak for retti so will shelve that.

How so? I’m not going to vote someone every time they do something I don’t like..

How do you view this post?

I think it makes sense for town!you to vote for someone if you think they made "the worst post of the game" rather than keep your vote on your RVS which means really nothing.

The fact that you don't really see your vote as a tool to pressure/attack people that you suspect makes me think you are not very interested in scumhunting.

Uhh what? you SR someone for not voting? I mean, my method of scumhunting doesn't typically involve talking with my vote? Like, engaging with people and talking to them is better than just a simple (Vote X)

i agree.
do you think it's a playstyle difference between natalya & scorpious or do you think natalya is pushing scorpious opportunistically?

VOTE: Scorpius E-2

Fua & Andante are town. Retti probationary town. Oman is too lucid and considered and I'm scared to have a read on them.

What made you decide to put Scorp on E-2?

i'm a punk who does as they please
mmm originally it was a whim. i like big wagons, and i was curious to see if anything else happened. it lost a lot of interest to me when scorp made the post abt clique culture etc.

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

oh heck yeah i love a spicy read. my townread on andante is like, super lazy and premature, but i do think she's advancing the gamestate in a way that tends towards clarity rather than deception. i'm reading tea leaves here tho.

hope you don't mind me being granular. from meta analysis, do you think there's a particular mindset we should be looking for from andante to indicate her alignment? what struck you as different here (even if it's just like, a sentence or some gut feeling, what sparked that feeling?)

a game of 13 is usually 10:3 which means voting someone out because they're hard to read flips scum ~23% of the time. voting someone out because they randed scum works 100% of the time. so i'd rather vote out scum in this game, than vote out skilled scum players.

my initial thoughts were that andante seemed very explain-y, overexplain-y but i wasn't reading closely so i'll give that a reassessment probably sometime tomorrow.

ah i didn't see this in preview edit. i'm holding my breath for tomorrow.

If you want to say i'm scum for hedging reads amongst low hanging fruit by pushing Egix & Aza at the same time, go fuckin wild. If you want to say I'm scum actually seriously legitimately pocketing T3 by giving him the benefit of the doubt and pushing someone else who was coasting by doing sweet fuck-all, please go fuckin wild. I'm a trainwreck to read correctly day one, but I'm not impossible to eliminate day one and I'm not impossible to scum-case day one. Literally bring it on. But what you're saying I'm doing is straight-up loopy.

pls go reread the first like two or three lines of this post after you finish, ideally i'd try and format slightly more clearly but i'm busyish irl as well

[the worst]

IDK if I'm just feeling petty tonight but I kind of hate those reads from Scorp

If I were to try to put it into words, he's scumreading Az for "waffling" but a lot of his reads are inconclusive as well? It feels kind of open-ended for who he's willing to vote?

i think hypocrisy tends to come from purer mindsets before guilty mindsets a lot of the time (who have a tendency towards being more careful / avoiding being seen as fallacious)
is it not normal to remain open-ended as to who you would vote if you have a pool of people who you think are scum?

ftr i have a few issues with scorpius' read list but i feel like you're just picking on things which are optically not-ideal without actually considering what alignment is posting them?

[the worst]

@the worst, Retti is town, just assume that is true, and move on with your day 1, together the 3 of us will find a scum today

that's a bigger problem than retti being scum, because i am not convinced retti is making an effort to form reads on people's alignments. that, coming from townies, loses games.

[the worst]

do you read people's posts in like, internally-assigned voices?

[the worst]

spice

btw i think this post reads a bit more angery!!! than i actually am right now
your reads are developing a bit slowly & over-focused on things that ~look bad~ rather than things which... like, scum actually do? your read on me is just a handy example since you expanded on it and it's based on several assumptions which are a bit moonlogicky.

counterpoint: i could just say

i solemnly swear i will eliminate retti because their name is short for spaghetti

and ride the nonsense train

[the worst]

@the worst, Retti is town, just assume that is true, and move on with your day 1, together the 3 of us will find a scum today

that's a bigger problem than retti being scum, because i am not convinced retti is making an effort to form reads on people's alignments. that, coming from townies, loses games.

See, I think Retti is actively trying. Retti scum doesn't have to talk this much, Retti is questioning genuine stuff in reads, like me going "Oman town" and retti like "what was towny?" kinda implies Retti would SR Oman, and wants to know what they're missing, and why I see oman as town. idk, reads wise to me, retti feels fine (I do stand by if Retti is scum, oman is partner... but the logic is still the same)

that's a bit charitable i'm seeing a lot of questions but don't see how those questions help retti's reads.

I literally said I'm having trouble putting it into words but am just posting my immediate gut reaction (but also his read on me is butt)

it's a little lukewarm ya
do you have thoughts on any other reads than you/aza which you want to try and talk thru? wording doesn't matter, actually seeing the spagh-retti of your brain in action would help me sort you

[the worst]

and i post, pretending i didn't read 397,

do you read people's posts in like, internally-assigned voices?

LMAOOO umm no, it depends what the post is for how I read/interpret it, usually need a few posts to judge the intent behind what's being said, thus I work best with looking at ISOs lol instead of just reading to catch up

that makes sense, i feel it. normally late-ish d1 / later in the game i have like, assigned voices to people's posts and it kinda helps me remember the vibe they're bringin. reading ISOs to get a better vibe makes a bunch of sense too.

[the worst]

(sorry, post 402 was the one i was pretending not to have read. that shitpost failed.)

[the worst]

spice

btw i think this post reads a bit more angery!!! than i actually am right now
your reads are developing a bit slowly & over-focused on things that ~look bad~ rather than things which... like, scum actually do? your read on me is just a handy example since you expanded on it and it's based on several assumptions which are a bit moonlogicky.

Teh thing is I voted you on a momentary twinge, basically, but since then you have given me basically no reason to doubt it at all because I don't find your thinking believable and you keep taking potshots at me and it feels like you're just purposefully trying to tilt me now

not trying to tilt no, i'm not into that life, i think we're very diff. people. i don't think the reason you're pushing me makes any sense. i don't really see your other reads forming. => i'm p null on you but i don't have reasons to townread you.

i think this convo has kinda hit the bottom of the bottom of a well so i'm gonna keep doin my thing

do you read people's posts in like, internally-assigned voices?

Please read my voice as Jon Dimaggio’s..

Thank you

oh yes i cannot express how much better this game just got

[the worst]

Spoiler: don't open until d2 or andante will fight me

i think i'm townleaning retti now and i'm not sure i'm aggressively townreading andante anymore and that makes me feel like aza is more likely to be town oohhhhh i need to lay down

[the worst]

Hmm. I'd hoped the difference between my facetious posts & my attempts to advance the game were clear enough - #403 was like, a heavily ironic reduction of the issue I took with Retti's posting and was not serious. There are actual issues with reductiveness in this game. The core of lurkers is pretty damaging. But noted, I'll dial it back.

second that fua is like, genuinely probably the most enjoyable player itt. I do think them trying to find middle ground with scorpius has gone well beyond the point where it's useful, though.

[the worst]

It does feel like cultural difference accounts for like, part of the tension. MS "golden age" was slower paced, more analytical and it was very fair to assume that someone had read everything, parsed and considered it before they posted. EM's culture toward the end (+ a few other fairly large communities atm) tends to put more value in real-time interaction and less in analysis. I can see why someone who puts a lot of energy into presenting each post feels shortchanged when their posts aren't read. Vice versa I think more hyperactive players tend to find it a lot harder to feel comfortable with reads on more analytical players because they don't conform to stuff that let's their method work (not as around for real-time interactions for example).

Idk neither is strictly better or worse, this is definitely a culture shock which like, happens a bit. I get where you're coming from, Oman. My bad if I exacerbated the tension by being cute with Andante. She does have wonderful energy, but I really enjoy the way you're approaching this game.

Feel better for getting this said. Back to murdering scum.

[the worst]

I'm fairly sure Oman is town.

Reading their posts they feel genuinely upset that large portions of the player list are not posting and resigned to town apathy possibly destroying the chances of town winning this game.

They haven't played on the site for a while and they come from a time when lurking was actually quite an issue for town win rates so I think this mindset probably is not faked.

It's not like 100% but they're one of my more confident townreads atp for what it's worth.

I also think Oman is town but for like, slightly different reasons. I'm also quite scared of them. World build with me for a sec right. If Oman is scum who's putting more effort into this than half the town and people are just literally not paying attention to the spectacular web they're weaving -- do you not think they'd still be upset? Is there something about their emotional rxn which strikes you as significantly more likely to come from town?

[the worst]

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

Meta and on an alt? Double strike, be careful for the third pitch

I side-eyed this too

I still don’t see Natalya as scum. It would take a lot to convince me differently.

As I said I’m a sucker for activity and both her and Andante satisfy me there.

If this is town I actually want to inverse this read

ugh same

[the worst]

Also the worst it’s good to see you’re in the game. It’s been a while.

good to see you too dude.

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

Perhaps, maybe once I can post in this game without having it critiqued.

I think you are scum as well..

Tell me who isn’t..please

Sorry I have to revisit this.

What is the pre requisite amount of town reads I should have right now?

Are you saying that the ratio of scum/town reads is AI?

Also,

Telling me that the game setup doesn’t allow everyone to be scum is kinda dumb.

oh I get where they're coming from actually

a standard normal game (they're all reviewed twice for balance) of 13 players will have 3 mafia aligned players. that's about it. I don't think multiple scumteams are even allowed at this size of game but I should double check that but I won't because I need to catch up & get ready for work.

Conventional wisdom will tell you thar you're looking for about 20-25% of a player list as scum. Having more scumreads than this means, most of the time, you're incorrectly scumreading people -- which means your solve will be fundamentally flawed.

So an ideal readlist eliminates scumreads until that's about 20-25% of the plist, then it works out how likely left-over townreads are to be correct basically.

Again conventional wisdom so salt to taste, but I've always found this p cerebral

[the worst]

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

what natalya said can be interpreted a couple different ways and i think you thinking this way first is scum indicative

How is Dwlee interpreting it exactly? /

[the worst]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

[the worst]

I also think Oman is town but for like, slightly different reasons. I'm also quite scared of them. World build with me for a sec right. If Oman is scum who's putting more effort into this than half the town and people are just literally not paying attention to the spectacular web they're weaving -- do you not think they'd still be upset? Is there something about their emotional rxn which strikes you as significantly more likely to come from town?

It rings as genuine frustration to me. I'm not sure exactly why I think that, just reading what they write down, I have a strong sense of empathy with them that it's what they truly feel and not just an act.

I agree. Why does that only come from town?

[the worst]

Sorry y'all I know this is super obviously dwlee scum and all that but they've got me pocketed so I'll have to wait til f3 then in a shocking twist, suddenly reverse my read and save the day.

VOTE: T3

(For those who arent used to my brand of bullshit: I don't buy the Dwlee wagon at all)

I get wagoned Day 1 in at least 80% of the games I play, regardless of alignment.

Yeahhh i know. Id be super keen for an egix or uglyduck wagon but we gotta exist in the timelines we gotta exist in.

[the worst]

little busy today and not 100% - i'll be around on the weekend.

[the worst]

we could also just wagon Andres and embrace the scramble

[the worst]

UglyDuck just spent like 9 days preparing completely lukewarm recycled reads and I'm kind of surprised that's not getting as much attention as I'd hoped?

VOTE: UglyDuck this isn't for pressure I think he's fairly likely to actually flip red

[the worst]

I have a weird feeling t3 is town this game but if he isn't he is in my head get out of my head get out of my head get out of my head

T3 & Egix switched over in my reads at some point

I don't necessarily think uglyduck is scum for those reads (actually felt like, does scum really make a list with literally no scumreads?) but don't mind the pressure there at all and want to see how he responds.

Still working on rereading, have time today so should be able to get that done eventually.

Not litigating, just explaining my mindset. I think it's semi typical of scum who aren't certain how to enter a gamestate. We're kinda pushing lurkers, who ugly is either aligned with or knows are town but they aren't like.... good lims, just good wagons. I think not feeling comfortable pushing lukewarm popular reads is a pretty safe position. I think ugly would struggle to pick a spicy take style scumread. This gamestate is fairly inaccessible and I think Ugly might be hoping someone will access it for him. Not necessarily a scummy trait, but I think not owning it tends to weakly indicate a guilty mindset as well.

Tldr hard to say but I think it can definitely come from scum.

Ehh. From what I’ve seen scum are much more afraid to actually put scumreads on their lists than town are, so I’m not sure. Might just be a difference in experience, though.

Once again I'm reading a fua post and wishing I'd made it.

[the worst]

This smug SOB is town.. and it pisses me off that he is..

dwlee prefers they/them

I think they're going for more like, sassy/funny than smug!

VOTE: dwlee
meep

why vote dwlee at this point btw

[the worst]

Forget that for a moment, fua can you tell me what your actual reads are right now? Just in a list, no reasoning.

Town:
Retti
Andante
Worst
Azaariah

Null:
Oman
Dwlee
Natalya

Scum:
Uglyduck
T3
Scorpious

Not playing:
Egix
Andres

Some of these are conditional, though. Bottom three isn’t a scumteam so much as ‘the three most likely to be scum’. Egix and Andres are unrankable because they aren’t actually in this game.

Hmm not super dissimilar. I think Scorp might be town though.

[the worst]

Golden rule #1: dont let andres read and catch up just make him suffer. I didn't realise that this was the golden rule until just now either, but it totally is.

I thought t3 was town but his vote on me was bad and he just... hasn't elaborated. It's like the *refuses to elaborate* meme

That vote was like a glowing red flag to me too, for what its worth.

[the worst]

if [natalya, t3, ugly] is 3/3 I'm going to sooo pretend I'm good at mafia after this game.

[the worst]

Congrats on the new job, Oman. Glad all is going well.

VOTE: the worst
Why are you town?

my uh, wincon aligns with an uninformed majority...

honestly, what a question to open with. Half of my surface-level approach is geared towards minimising polarity between my towngame and scumgame. - Respectfully, your slot has absolutely no clout, we're almost at deadline and I am not a consideration for today's elimination. Explain to me why this post isn't absolute performative nonsense.

[the worst]

Ive seen no evidence that you, myself or about 6 other players in this game aren't hectic alts. remain vigilant, my new friend. hectic alts are always where you least suspect them.

[the worst]

just for clarity I'm a discussion mod, not a mafia mod, and make it my building ness to avoid knowing alts if I don't need to. please don't let my joking reflect badly on the listmods.

but I'm pretty sure there's a grand hectic conspiracy and everyone is in on it. what if all of the listmods are hectic? according to my hectic correlation index there's a 37% chance I'm hectic. more than a third of the time, I'm a hectic alt. how stressful is that? how can each one of us stop ourselves from eventually becoming part of the hectic alt hive mind?

[the worst]

Congrats on the new job, Oman. Glad all is going well.

VOTE: the worst
Why are you town?

my uh, wincon aligns with an uninformed majority...

honestly, what a question to open with. Half of my surface-level approach is geared towards minimising polarity between my towngame and scumgame. - Respectfully, your slot has absolutely no clout, we're almost at deadline and I am not a consideration for today's elimination. Explain to me why this post isn't absolute performative nonsense.

I was actually in the middle of evaluating the existing wagons whilst you posted this. I feel like the uglyduck wagon has better logic behind it but I haven’t really combed all the votes for the Dwlee wagon yet.
As for why I’m asking you how you’re town, you should know why! But tbf you don’t feel like how I’m used to scum!you playing as a replace in.

I have no idea why youd ask this and posit that its busywork which isn't helpful. let me know if I'm missing something.

My current position is that I could take a Dwlee or Uglyduck lim today without much sweat. 2 days to run, I could at this point shift to UglyDuck to force a claim... We've got a pretty good unspoken VT claim from Scorp and Dwlee.

If we're still in this two-wagon E-2 posn in about 12-24hrs I'll switch to UglyDuck to pop the claim and resolve out some more information.

I like your thinkin. I would totally bus here, there can only be one duck.



I'm roughly equally anxious about how lukewarm uglyduck's contributions have been and also how under the radar he's gone? I feel like if this was town it probably would have been wagoned with much sketchier origins? unless i am the sketchy origin

[the worst]

I'd hammer the claim
VOTE: t3

[the worst]

T3 wagon remains all town go us

[the worst]

T3/Dwlee are great conflicting wagons

[the worst]

Ooh nice reveal. I'm surprised Scorp wasn't next to be eliminated but I totally just had the third as Andres, lol. Well played scum.

[the worst]

my town core that I kept facetiously referring to as the entire scum team who were laughing at me turned out to be the entire scumteam... oh no

[the worst]

we are the legion of the deceived, climbing in droves out of your pocket

[the worst]

In my experience just in case she doesn't check in soon. Mastina is an absolute goddess of reviewing games and is a pretty long-standing normal game reviewer. Sometimes after games there are questions about how the setup was considered from a reviewer's pov and mastina is usually really comfortable going into her thoughts about it.

this post game hasn't really involved setup discussion but sometimes it's really juicy.