CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[tictac]

Proxy my vote to: Lady Lambdadelta

I'll vote whoever LLD does (even if it's me).

Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D5-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.

u guys got beef?

i'm ascetic.

[tictac]

his is extra funny because both my parents were high level private sector and government defense lawyers.

thought u were bragging about having pirates as parents

[tictac]

MUSHSHAGANA, but not specifically because I thought their reasoning was fallacious.

read as confused to me

[tictac]

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

disagree about greeting
VOTE: greeting
in fact

theres a kind of annoyance at the resistance to mush push that feels scum-indic and the curiosity that accompinies is kinda performative and weird-agressive.
258 prolly the best example of this.

[tictac]

greet: i don't hate the T3 vote
ceph vs roden: revisionist history just people being people, but standand fare 4 what folks think are "smoking guns" on day 1.
irceher: dunno. did ping early on, but could be playstyle and now gone quiet.
std: looks town -> is scum. sad bell went back on this. i don't think town std is this opinionated. lean read cause the reason is a bit silly.

[tictac]

debate is debate. annoyance is an emotion.
the read hasn't changed, but kinda agree abot t3 being scummy
@ the person who asked

[tictac]

tone

[tictac]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

[tictac]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

I quite agree that it’s insane and that’s why I’m asking you to elaborate. If I’m scum but also

T3

is scum then what is the purpose of me suspecting them?

lemme refrase.
u don't get townpoints from a preflip assosiat to someone who is kinda sketchy.
cuz duh.

that aswer yer q?

[tictac]

greet: i did consider that perspective, and i judged it to be dumb.
conclusions drawn from a faulty perspective are gonna be faulty also.
yes: from your proposed pow my stances are clearly contradictory, and i should not be having these opinions. that says more about the quality of the pow than my opinions, which is why i adressed the root of the disconnect instead of the question you asked.

noraa: i don't think u asked me anything, so dunno what u want me to react to?

[tictac]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

I quite agree that it’s insane and that’s why I’m asking you to elaborate. If I’m scum but also

T3

is scum then what is the purpose of me suspecting them?

lemme refrase.
u don't get townpoints from a preflip assosiat to someone who is kinda sketchy.
cuz duh.

that aswer yer q?

greet: ur pow says i should do this, hence dumb.

noraa: i seen u once as scum and once as town. u are way more like u were as town here. even the case on me is kinda like the case on mathblade in tone.

[tictac]

ftr i was town in both. noraa was first scum, then town.
titus has actually seen me as scum, if only briefly.

that said, even the reasoning is stringly reminisent of the mathblade-case so i believe it's a real read.

[tictac]

also: u did not visibly forget what ur role-pm said and "scumslip" in this game.

[tictac]

Sometimes it feels like i’m seeing the same arguments over and over again, but nothing is happening.

yeah

[tictac]

weird how few votes on roden despite people arguing 4 it so loudly.

what is the wagon on grendel even about?

[tictac]

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

disagree about greeting
VOTE: greeting
in fact

theres a kind of annoyance at the resistance to mush push that feels scum-indic and the curiosity that accompinies is kinda performative and weird-agressive.
258 prolly the best example of this.

greet: i don't hate the T3 vote
ceph vs roden: revisionist history just people being people, but standand fare 4 what folks think are "smoking guns" on day 1.
irceher: dunno. did ping early on, but could be playstyle and now gone quiet.
std: looks town -> is scum. sad bell went back on this. i don't think town std is this opinionated. lean read cause the reason is a bit silly.

greet read has remained constant, but std has surpassed the scumminess.

i don't buy that std believes the populist crap he's pushing. he is the kind of player who does not make reads easily because "is this AI" is a consideration. all i'm reading from him is "is this a thing i can push and people will agree". like looking 4 logical inconsisteency. many folks i'd buy this approach as honest, from std, no.
VOTE: STD
#hereisurthunder.

add galron to my scumlist also 4 the line of questioning that starts w 884. like what else is emotion-read based off on than tone ever? predestined ending to the line and it went nowheree. classic fake curiosity.

too much consensus on irch
too much consensus on arcane

intersection on scumreads and realistic yeets is not great here
the line cannot hold, heavy elements are needed

[tictac]

Tic tac is your early claim true or a meme?

true

[tictac]

too much consensus on irch

Then what is your explanation for him not being dead yet?

folks don't die from mean looks.
could be wrong on my read on thread temp, but don't currently think so

[tictac]

opposed to gendel yeet 4 what it's worth

[tictac]

yea, still don't think day 1 is shaped like this w ircher-scum

VOTE: andante
this is okay as far as compromise goes tho. lets see if it has legs.

[tictac]

[tictac]

role is confirmable not the flavor there
pedit: @ bears

[tictac]

andante was what mush suggested as alternative so *shrugs*

pedit: and i was gonna jump on val just now. lol

[tictac]

i see a thing happened

[tictac]

huh

[tictac]

RB existence in 20p game p much a given imo.
why not just kill town irch here tho?
p sure he wasn't the nk target cause then they don't use a block on him. (unless catboy suicidal!scum or jailed block on town!irch existed both super unlikely)
still don't really scumread him outside of the claims stuff, and also not inclined to go 4 info-yeet. dunno.

bears-stuff: having a role reason to ask 4 info is pretty standard and i'd be inclined to cooperate w such. generally best practice to let folks play their own prs like they will and if later on turns out the reasoning was insufficient that is an issue for then.

pedit: wot norw: u finnish? i thought u were from norway or some such.

[tictac]

yea plz don't claim more stuff bears. let's wait 4 everyone to post.
also plz no speed-lim folks.

@mush asking 4 info is standard speed-lim is dumb.

[tictac]

yea plz don't claim more stuff bears. let's wait 4 everyone to post.
also plz no speed-lim folks.

@mush asking 4 info is standard speed-lim is dumb.

please dont claim more stuff? lol what? this is a scum role that did this to us. do you think they're gonna claim it or something. also what was up with openly being like YES PRS GO CLAIM U TARGETTED BEARS.
like bunny, you are so scummyyyyyyy~

-noraa

u asked folks to claim, so.
or someone in ur slot did.

[tictac]

yea plz don't claim more stuff bears. let's wait 4 everyone to post.
also plz no speed-lim folks.

@mush asking 4 info is standard speed-lim is dumb.

Why not tictac?

Why shouldn't we claim what we know?


-Pinkie the Animatronic

kinda assumed u had a reason to not immediately fullclaim.
didn't want u to give in cause of peer-pressure.

[tictac]

tictic is like top 4 scumfuck in game idk what u think ur doin buddy LOL

pls bear w me i keep gettin hung up on brain shit like. im havin fuckin memory failure keep thinking re7 mold instad of control mold like ??? n then i start thinkin the clog. yea my brains fucky LOL

so like noraas right like whoever visited aint gonna tell u thats for sure

tbh i think yall should infodump tbh, n then we continue according 2 plan w ur death in mind. im p sure irch is scum idk if irch is visited u but like ??? scumfuck for sure n then ur other scumreads aint off base either??? extra info good ofc. thing is like u can see tictics usin this to try n play off of n build positioning its fuckin transparent and like thats the entire point of the whole "lets kill irch now" thing exactly like tet mentioned

like if i was scum wouldn't u want me to post more and throw all kinds of associations around before my inevitable demise?
kinda demonstrates my point in tet-plan being dumb, eh?

[tictac]

good thing about being ascetic is i'm always the yeet at some point down the line, so might as well argue when people try to do dumb fast-yeets.
not a mold. i do have a theory tho. have u given up on getting claims?

[tictac]

any reason to think u were poisoned at night?
cause lld did that "seize" thing on u yesterday.

[tictac]

i mean, that's what made me think maybe lld was masking a real day-action w the fake dayvig.

[tictac]

ur optimism about the general reads of this town never ceases to amaze me.

[tictac]

Galron just saying what I said with different words. I always like when that happens.

how come u hate it when norway does it?

agree w std about andante

mala is mala.

[tictac]

It's a rehash of what's already been said.

that's not really true.
at least the angle of "non-consequentive" combined with FN being a weird combo was new to me.
FN 1-shot kinda already same balance wise as full FN, so unless theres a flavor reason it's weird.

[tictac]

VOTE: Ircher

It's been over 24 hours.

mastina and lld haven't checked in.

[tictac]

anyway, theres folk who havent posted.

[tictac]

snakes yammy tho

[tictac]

end does not look like a slamdunk, but kinda tempted to sheeple

[tictac]

lotsa people mistype my name and i kinda wish they didn't. it's kinda rude esp since "tictac" is so short.

[tictac]

i dunno what does help town here tho.
i'd argue more if i disagreed more.
@bell

[tictac]

actually flavorclaiming might be a thing that matters.
i'm benicoff tv.

[tictac]

i dunno what does help town here tho.
i'd argue more if i disagreed more.
@bell

Do you not see anything odd that you have nothing better to say than, “ I wish people would stop misspelling my name, “I’m not sure about this guys” on world and obvious emotional nonchalance?

s odd that noone seriously pushed 4 my lim when ircher was on the block, but std already posted about there likely being bussing going on w that wagon. As for looking town, i'm not actually convinced that getting rid of the neg-util isn't the smart move here.

[tictac]

You are negative utility?

OK now you need to talk....

_Pinkie the InterroBear Pt 2

i claimed ascetic in my first post.

[tictac]

Yes, it is. it's also making that point to them. so *neener neener*

-Pinkie

why do i need to be convinced my flavor is irrelevant tho?
s gonna be irrelevant 2 me regardless.

[tictac]

[tictac]

so, flavor irrelevant, also we had a flavorcop, eh?

[tictac]

the 2 major day1 pushes (ircher & mariar) were not both on scum.
that's not a thing that happens.

[tictac]

wagon analysis is what i got on that slot

[tictac]

VOTE: bears tho.
pinkie reaction to my flavorclaim was pure "oh noes, the lynchbait is escaping" vibes.
mastina and noraa may remember gamma doing that in finalfantasy.

also pinkie claimed cred for the poisoned-claim, but if the claim is real there was no "originator" of the idea.

[tictac]

right im caught scum for thinking that eating RBs or getting a confirmed town is more positive EV than lynching my slight scum read

i member

Reminder that "lynch" is no longer an acceptable term for mafia.

my bad.
"yeetbait" then

[tictac]

yea. the pushback ceph got from a reasonable question was absurd.
mold can be a real thing since mastina claimed it too tho.
agree w probs 3p, so let scum hunt 4 it.
pinkie reaction to my flavor still scummy, and stance on flavor contradicts treating it like a huge secret.

[tictac]

VOTE: std
is this actually plausible now?

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."
no thanks

[tictac]

lol
VOTE: dunn

[tictac]

the idea that scum have an ability that essentially townfirms its target would have to be wildly, game-alteringly strong. And there's still no reason scum wouldn't be able to bluff by claiming they were molded. Although I don't really support voting any molded claim today.

It could be a permanent Roleblock or an alternative wincon. "Confirming" someone as town isn't really true though because we can only theorize that as the truth. Pretty sure we're meant to be paranoid about it, but the fact that scum keeps killing town read players and Molding controversial players just implies that scum is spewing Mold victims as town.

theres no wincon alteration since game is non-bastard.
doesn't really make sense as scum pr.

personally i think it's cult, exept the culted don't change wincon/know they are culted. s why i said leave it 4 scum to hunt.

[tictac]

**Holds game hostage to find replacement**
**Replacement dies**

yea i thought the way the replace went donwn was pr-indic, perhaps the scum agreed.
either that or it's meant to preserve gamestate.
assuming nero was the scum-kill here.

[tictac]

i mean, i thoght it, so someone else might as well.
whether or not it's actually correct is beside the point.

[tictac]

he's mistaken as a point of fact tho.

[tictac]

i mean yeah. ceph is mistaken about me, but it's a perfectly reasonable thing to think, and he came to the conclusion naturally.

[tictac]

oh cool, i missed that somehow
VOTE: galron

[tictac]

i don't think i can do that here, sorry.
me being conventional-towny only really happens when i get into a tunnel and that is not under my concious control.
pedit@ noraa (i think?)

[tictac]

i mean scum-me would be just as fatalistic about my eventual yeet here, but would be actively avoiding any kind of spew.
so that is a legit thing u could townread if u chose to.
also not gonna, cause nobody townreads folk from what they say they should be townread from, so.

[tictac]

Andante, NorwegianboyEE, Roden, Malakittens, The Three Bears,catboi, Cephrir (no particular order but all town)
Toogeloo,
mastina,
Save the Dragons
Galron,

bears would drop significantly on galron scumflip 4 obv reasons.
mastina would be town on bears scumflip (basically mastina doesn't believe noraa busses, so scum-noraa would only bus in town-mastina world)
galron is the only flip i'd prefer to my own currently.
so, are we still waiting 4 someone to do things, or can we make this me vs galron and end the day?

[tictac]

dragon plays to townie image, but my familiarity w him makes me beleve he doesn't believe in the things he pushes.

[tictac]

i don't buy that std believes the populist crap he's pushing. he is the kind of player who does not make reads easily because "is this AI" is a consideration. all i'm reading from him is "is this a thing i can push and people will agree". like looking 4 logical inconsisteency. many folks i'd buy this approach as honest, from std, no.
VOTE: STD
#hereisurthunder.

[tictac]

that said, he's been better lately, but thhat is why on the placement.

[tictac]

i'd take a closer look if i was trying to yeet dragon.
i'm not tho, so doesn't seem relevant.
pedit @ andante

[tictac]

If you're this ok with your own elim, you must expect it to help the game state in some way. How?

frees up a vig shot 4 one.
also later yeets gonna be aiming in a smaller pool, so if i'm gonna take a yeet anyway it's better to take an earlier one when the chances of aiming correctly are lower. so doesn't make sense to compromise too much just to survive.

[tictac]

bears drops on galron scum flip. lmao what
i've called galron town like three times. offered no explanation whatsoever. are you pr fishing or something lol

u gave the imression of a pr clear and u know it.
fact u didn't claim one after was pointed out it can't be true doesn't change that.

[tictac]

i mean, it's a paradoxical thing to ask of someone in the first place.
i gave u a readslist and i almost never do those anymore.

[tictac]

2 of u reacted super strongly to a thing that has no bearing on anything unless galron flips red.
so, yea. that ice cream is mine now.

[tictac]

my solve 4 today is galron.

[tictac]

i mixed up noraa and nancy

[tictac]

But, regardless: with this knowledge, why haven't you revised your statement off of the new info that makes your prior take obsolete?

figured it was implied.

So this isn't like "100% locktown" level of town, but like: statistically speaking, I think that there's a much higher chance of Galron being town.

i mean statistically speaking all yeets are more likely to be town.
also of note is that gal was defending ircher in that other game.

[tictac]

add galron to my scumlist also 4 the line of questioning that starts w 884. like what else is emotion-read based off on than tone ever? predestined ending to the line and it went nowheree. classic fake curiosity.

s not the current reasoning, but the current reasoning is in the "undefined" category, and i want potential bragging rights 4 early read.

[tictac]

o come on now. we don't have 2 neighborizers. catboy is the vig hiding behind tissue paper.
this doesn't have to be rocket science, let's just yeet someting and let him shoot.

[tictac]

let's just yeet someting

[tictac]

everyone should flavor claim though tbh. flavor is the best way to tell toogs alignment

he's batted a 100% flavorwise so far.

we'll need to create a good order though

i've fullclaimed already.
popcorn std?

[tictac]

looked into ur std thing andante. not sure it's as ai as u think and u skipped a detour on roden, but sdt did go after scum a lot on day 1.
reminds me that 2 major pushes both being on scum still absurd 2 me.
@titus was there an underlying cause in that game u referenced?

[tictac]

lol

[tictac]

if u actually asking and assuming it's the other way around.
ascetic
less mech stuff
kinda feel like this goes well enough on its own

[tictac]

okay. u can compare to finalfantasy then, and psure it's the other way around.

[tictac]

pass it on then. it's how popcorn works.

[tictac]

i'd say fullclaims are in order.
popcorn is a way to make a reasonable ordering happen without having any one person dictating the whole thing.
u welcome to make ur thing happen, but usually people go "we need massclaim to happen" yet nobodyy actually claims.

[tictac]

massclaim

[tictac]

andante claimed vt but not flavor, so it's valid.

[tictac]

hokay. was waiting 4 massclaim to finish, but i guess i should go into why.

I'm Casper Darling. I am a 2-shot Hedron Resonance Amplifier Researcher. Non-lethal hostile actions used against me or a person whom I target to give one of my shots to, will consume a charge, and that action will not succeed. My assumption is that it is an anti-blocker power, but I think it pretty much works on any hostile action that isn't lethal. I gave one to LLD on Night 1, and my other charge I was holding was consumed last night. The shot lasts until it is consumed. I was trying to feign power early by dropping Jesse Faden quotes to draw scum actions against me, and figured holding a charge would let me know if it ever worked. I didn't really know who else to use it on since there weren't many open claims on the table.

so implication is u getting molded and it not working?
thing is i don't think inventor-types get to use their own shots usually.
also a shot being consumed not something i'd expect u to be informed about if u have this role. i mean presumably lld would not have been informed if targeted?
also consumes a shot if u target someone else, whether or not it does anything or not, AND consumes a charge on u ONLY when it does something? seems asymmetrical.
looked at control wiki a bit and i do think HRAs would be a thing and nobody else claiming anything related to that so the flavor works v well, but mech is wonky. safeclaims would be chosen by cakes so don't think u being a flavor-person is super relevant.

if anyone has counterexamples of the mech-points (games where similar role worked as toog describes) hearing about those would be good.

so yeah i wanna finish the massclaims to see if there's an alt explanation 4 the missing mold, and get an idea of the balance of the game before committing to yeeting, but u could be fakeclaiming.

[tictac]

The biggest problem I have with mastina scum is the early accuracy of her reads.

This could be a situation room style game though.

~Mama

right. was there a reason why situation room was the way it was?

[tictac]

s ot something u theorized before being suggested? ur pow seems strogly anti-mold as described.

[tictac]

ambiguity: pow=claim in this case

[tictac]

claimed:
mastina
Andante,
Save The Dragons,
Cephrir,
NorwegianboyEE,
tictac,
Toogeloo,

unclaimed(top of head)
Roden,
Malakittens,
The Three Bears,

did roden claim already? probs should be next

[tictac]

In that game, by the time I subbed in, there were three wagons on scum and none were on town. My team begged me to bus to try and go deep.

On Day 1, the two major wagons that didn't go through were on Ircher and Dunn.

~Mama

yeah. i was hoping 4 insight into how such a situation comes about in the first place.
just a case of townies having supernatural reads or did the scumteam go hard-in into crossbussing at get-go and succeed too well or what.
if there was an explanation maybe something similar happened here.

[tictac]

I don’t think Tictac confirmed that their role is powerless other than ascetic? But haven’t checked that deeply.

should have been more explicit maybe. i did say i was neg-util.
ascetic is all i have.

[tictac]

gee. maybe finishing the massclaims is a good idea?

[tictac]

did i miss bears/mala claiming anything besides flavor/unspecified pr?
finishing massclaim would be neat.

[tictac]

VOTE: bears
okay then

[tictac]

well i'm not confortable having no idea about balance here.

[tictac]

so yeah i wanna finish the massclaims to see if there's an alt explanation 4 the missing mold, and get an idea of the balance of the game before committing to yeeting, but u could be fakeclaiming.

[tictac]

um. i suggested that and u said i'm a mislim?
ftr still think mold is 3rd party.
also why moldy folk aren't dying. i think scumz are mold-hunting w nk. more surprised catboy died being pmuch confirmed non-mold.

[tictac]

leaving massclaims unfinished still a mistake, but dunno what to do about it.

[tictac]

ftr still think mold is 3rd party.

i mean otherewise being moldy is just #1 fachion accessory of the season, and that kinda goes against flavor.

[tictac]

cool pagetop
well done tictac. u so witty.

[tictac]

well mostly from what i think scumz

should

do and from bell.
bell was v town, but not high-impact, so better as late-stage kill, if they didnt think "mold"

[tictac]

if i was flavor leaf this is where i'd claim "Mold-1" just to see what happens.

[tictac]

refuge in audacity is such a cool tactic.
i wish i was an actual 3rd-p trying to pull it off.

[tictac]

so scumz declined the mystery-box of super-duper-PRness and went for the fruitvendor?
wanna fininish massclaims now, or just yeet bears?

[tictac]

dunno who i'm asking even

[tictac]

tictac suggesting we elim us is strictly antitown.

if u confirmable suggesting to elim u is 0 risk of anything bad happening.
did anyone new get molded?
i'm kinda doubting molding is actually a thing again.

[tictac]

It has to be in or Andante/Ceph/Tictac.
I just don’t see a world where that is wrong.

i think that is all town.
theres 3 moldy claims an 3 remaining scum, and no plausible explanation what being moldy

means

on mech level.
we got

one

mislim banked, and i'm psure u town, so: will u stop at one?

[tictac]

By confirmable I meant how can you confirm yourself as town?

we cant confirm that off of our role alone unfortunately.

don't say "confirmable" if u aren't

[tictac]

How do you know we have 1 mislim banked or whatever.

well, assuming 3 scum.

[tictac]

augh. yea. the even numbers threw me off.

[tictac]

so this is a no-yeet to get out of evens situation?

[tictac]

VOTE: no yeet
gonna ask 4 fast night.

[tictac]

VOTE: no yeet
gonna ask 4 fast night.

@dead thread: plz send confirm of toog-molding thru someone not currently molded, if it's a thing that happened.

[tictac]

VOTE: tictac

I think I'm just doing this, I know there was a huge tictac push that died, just like dunn/ircher

and toog

[tictac]

VOTE: no yeet
gonna ask 4 fast night.

@dead thread: plz send confirm of toog-molding thru someone not currently molded, if it's a thing that happened.

i want confirm or refutation of my theory from ceph.
no yeet is the only thing i'll be voting today.

[tictac]

VOTE: no yeet
gonna ask 4 fast night.

@dead thread: plz send confirm of toog-molding thru someone not currently molded, if it's a thing that happened.

i want confirm or refutation of my theory from

ceph

galron.
no yeet is the only thing i'll be voting today.

ebwop

[tictac]

galron is gonna get a communicate at minimum.
it's potentially gamebreaking if i'm right, or pmuch only useful to me if i'm wrong.

[tictac]

VOTE: no yeet
gonna ask 4 fast night.

@dead thread: plz send confirm of toog-molding thru someone not currently molded, if it's a thing that happened.

i want confirm or refutation of my theory from

ceph

galron.
no yeet is the only thing i'll be voting today.

ebwop

the ability to yeet andante isn't going away.
if there is non-zero chance of moldy-claims being fake it's worth voting no-yeet, since the amount of allowed misyeets will not change.

[tictac]

last post 20h ago isn't disappearing

[tictac]

no qh -> min 1 scum in [andan,mala,norw] -> min 1 town in [bears,mastina,roden] -> mold is real -> this thing actually needs solving

[tictac]

i'll try to do that at some point, but if i'm just getting speedlimmed ere i'm not gonna bother.

[tictac]

I hate the no lim

bc all of what is going to happen is i'm going to die

and you'll STILL be in this same situtation

WITH LEGIT NO RESULT

SO NO

WE
ARE
NOT
NO
LIMMING

- 0 cost
- coordination of 3 is easier than coordination of 4
- lylo-mech is better than mylo-mech

[tictac]

i'll try to do that at some point, but if i'm just getting speedlimmed ere i'm not gonna bother.

Please don't give up if you're town. Same goes to Andante, we literally just lose if one of you is town and scum fights harder than you to survive.

Andante why are you voting Tictac now when you were set on them being town before today? Are you only voting them to survive?

Tictac, both of you have two votes each now. The only way you can both be town here is if each wagon has at least one scum vote each. Do you think this is likely what's happening here, or is Andante just scum here from your perspective?

dw. i'm not giving up, but i'm also not in a hurry.
trying to pace myself to other peoples speed is only gonna lead to mistaked and is really bad practice.
atm both andate and ceph could be town, since andan voted kinda recently and mastina has't been on.

[tictac]

dunno.
i just updated on real!mold- world, adjusting is gonna take time.
mala is probs not scum. that much i think i do know.

[tictac]

What is a real!mold world?

world where mold is real.

[tictac]

no qh -> min 1 scum in [andan,mala,norw] -> min 1 town in [bears,mastina,roden] -> mold is real -> this thing actually needs solving

[tictac]

gonna take time.

[tictac]

i mean yea. still don't know if i'm just waiting to see if i get speedhammered, since still no mastina-post.
the impatience 4 yeet is u/bears mayybe andan (if not on block) thing tho.

[tictac]

@ roden did u claim yet?

[tictac]

I am having trouble figuring out something to actually say (brain kinda scrambled), but I've been around, reading offline

if u doing this. just pop in and say "i'm present"

[tictac]

Bears is obvtown from all three heads;

noraa maybe. pinkie, very much not.
like andante raction to pink push so understandable from my pow.
totally possible that it's actually mania and not motivated reasoning tho, but i dunno how to tell the two/the combo apart.

Bears is basically conftown from role;

they claimed conftown and it wasn't true.

Bears is molded when mold is a scum ability; Bears cannot be scum.

like scum has an abiliity that conftowns people and they used it 3 times?
really?

You would know yourself to be town (and I believe it); you have been molded; you are not scum.
I am town; I have been molded; I am not scum.

uhh

[tictac]

i'm like 80% on mastina being scum.

[tictac]

they actually in prod range tho. i don't think she'd do that 4 strat reasons

[tictac]

Whta about our role doesn't confirm us to you?

the part where enabler can be either align. (and titus at least is well aware of this fact ref)

maf enabler to town role is anti-swing
town enabler is neg-util 4 town.
s why i still care about getting rodens claim, cause having it would give some idea which one it's likely to be.

[tictac]

enabler
"Some more creative uses have included Town Enablers for Mafia power roles and Mafia Enablers for Town power roles. "

[tictac]

tictac (2) - Cephrir, Andante

so, i'm wrong about one of these.

[tictac]

todo: reread day11
gonna do that tomorrow

[tictac]

enabler
"Some more creative uses have included Town Enablers for Mafia power roles and Mafia Enablers for Town power roles. "

Yeah but trying to explsin a player "could be scum based on their role" is wasted breath when they play like town and has whole game.

making the point of "coftowning them/themselves from the role is a ridiculous argument" isn't a waste of breath.

[tictac]

9 days, 7 hours, 7 minutes remain until day end

just a reminder that we not in a hurry here.

UNVOTE:
probs save the noyeet 4 potential tomorrow actually.

[tictac]

We not in a hurry but that don’t mean we need to waste time doing nothing or not advancing the game.

"advancing the game" has positive connotations, yet "making the game end faster" is only part of

some

wincons

[tictac]

OK, we're informed that Jesse is in the game and we're enabling her.
I think it's pretty clear I fell into the wiki pretty hard.

At what do point do any of us go looking for Jesse, knowing that role likely has the Service Weapon and is probably a vig as scum.

I'll wait.

-Pinkie the glare bear

i don't think the part of u being informed jesse is in the game is confirmed by jesse-pm?
or the flavor.

[tictac]

sure.
the reason i referenced neg-util in ur case is the gamebalance may affect the plausibility of ur claim being town.
not cause i wanna go "yeet cause negutil" in mylo.

pedit: well that's good if andante is scum. this isn't really a destressor 4 me necessarily.

[tictac]

what is the correct term 4 a day like this nowdays?

[tictac]

sure.
the reason i referenced neg-util in ur case is the gamebalance may affect the plausibility of ur claim being town.
not cause i wanna go "yeet cause negutil" in a lame-o.

pedit: well that's good if andante is scum. this isn't really a destressor 4 me necessarily.

ebwop :Å

[tictac]

post

[tictac]

so mala, norw, bears, roden on andante
if not hammered then (norw,bears,roden) or A is scum.
looks like i don't have to reread after all

[tictac]

@andan
maybe take off ur vote. i'm conftown from ur pow

[tictac]

actually yea.
min1 in (ceph,andan) means can't be norw,bears,roden
so if andan-town i'm just hammering instead of afk scumstina

[tictac]

VOTE: andante

[tictac]

Tictac can you check in plz.

check

[tictac]

liked mastina being pissed that i stole her rightful place on scum-andante wagon, but then she updated not at all on town-andante
don't really have much super constructive to say rn, i'll let things mull over.

[tictac]

Traitor wins by claiming right now, I think.

I still think Mold has to be a scum ability. Scum should've hunted for 3P the past couple nights, since they risk losing if the Mold 3P wins by infecting everyone. But they apparently tried to kill Mala twice in a row, who was basically conftown but also confirmed not to be the Mold 3P. Scum loses if we don't elim 3P today and they don't NK them tonight, so unless scum is intentionally throwing I think it has to be a scum ability.

seems correct

[tictac]

You might not have hammered a wagon on scum for the towncred, but what you did do was get a fast-pass to mylo.

uh what?

[tictac]

cathing up..

[tictac]

And, what I said about the denial of information remains true. You prevented me from having a chance to analyze more, as I had intended to do later that day.

The exact reasons for why the hammer was a scumclaim have changed, sure! That the hammer was a scumclaim has not, because it still very much was one.

cool logic

[tictac]

harebrained theory:

tet claimed to be roleblocked. as far as i'm aware, we have seen no further evidence a roleblocker exists.

tet targeted bears early on, while they were moldy.

what if the effect of mold is "players who target moldy targets are roleblocked the following night" ? is there anything that disproves this?

that was std, no?

[tictac]

i don't think you've ever explained the flavor reason for this being an ascetic. would you care to? also did toog ever weigh in on this?

flavor is, i don't like being controlled and will float out of reach.

For the record the TV becomes Hiss corrupted and breaks containment.
soooo.....

-Pinkie

and yes I'm aware it grants levitate when it's returned to containment.

Haven't you been preaching that flavor is irrelevant? The TV is one of Jesse's Objects of Power after she contains it, and almost all of the Objects of Power in the game need to be contained or cleansed.

And honestly, a leveraging TV certainly sounds untargetable by all but killing actions.

Just sayin'.

[tictac]

i guess the idea here is that being an ascetic is supposed to excuse not scumhunting? that doesn't really make sense to me. if you think you're going to be a required elim by endgame, shouldn't you be trying to have MORE impact on town's decisions now, with no fear of being NKed if you're right?

who fears nks ever (except as pr) dunno why folks think this wouldcause a distinguishable shit to townie direction.
way i see it, my job is to optimize the yeet. that is the only thing.
sure. this game that hasn't gone super well.

[tictac]

im hardly the first to say so, but there is 0 town motivation for this post

what's the scum motivation then?
i disagree with the thought that spelling out blatantly obvious things is ever anti-town.

[tictac]

he's been pretty checked out.

i haven't actually before this game-day.

[tictac]

this is the first time i've seen suspicion of bears from the slot. so it's a little odd to me that we jumped straight to yeet it. particularly when:

day entry bears susp was couse std died, and i didn't have the info that the kill was actually mala and std bodyguarded.
if u read what i said it's pretty clear it was nka

[tictac]

we are allegedly still very suspicious of mastina, so why suggest yeeting bears instead, and why not vote either of them? feels to me like testing the water on bears.

this is after mala claim

[tictac]

incidentally, i think anyone who didn't show much urgency or try hard to push their reads yesterday showed scum signs. since town didn't know it wasn't the final day, and i for one start feeling a lot of pressure to get it right when the game is nearly over. maybe less weight behind this point for anyone who has expressed feeling demotivated though, i do recognize not everyone thinks the way i do

no that is fair.
i would have stressed more and stuff, if i didn't think there were 3 scum left and thus one of (andant, mastina) had to be scum by votes-mech. (and m didn't have a vote down)
stressing more doesn't translate to more pushing/hunting being faster. it translates to going

slower

and reading more.

[tictac]

Actually ima just put the money where my mouth is.
I 100% agree with the opinion that Tictac has to be scum here.
I know there has been townflips earlier but Galron did indeed fake claim when he shouldn’t have, and Andante i feel would have been the lim today on an Tictac!scumflip anyways.
So my reads are not really proven to have been wrong based on those flips. It’s just unlucky distractions imo. So i don’t see the need to re-evaluate away from Tictac!scum. So i say, kill Tictac today. Find the partner tommorow.
VOTE: Tictac

[tictac]

i am. certain enough about that and uncertain enough about reads in general.
lets see if sanity has a chance here
VOTE: no yeet

[tictac]

This is a scumclaim from tictac.

It's refusing to take a stance.
It's refusing to do what you asked.

And more than that? Given the mold claims, it's also a scumclaim since a no-yeet would allow for another player to get molded, not to mention, another player to be nightkilled.

There is absolutely 0 reasons for a town player to vote no-yeet so this is just tictac trying to cut losses.

odds of a vote being correct in 2v4: 2/5
odds of a vote being correct in 2v3: 2/4 (> 2/5)
price of a wrong yeet is the same in both

2 votes and no hammer in 2v4 -> min 1 quaranteed scum in pool of 3
1 vote and no hammer in 2v3 -> min1 quaranteed scum in pool of 2

2v3 mech is way better than 2v4 mech.
i'll grant that molding may happen (if norw is town), but don't have a reason to think it has a relevant mech effect at all.


lets compare Titus protocol with doing literally thee opposite in a general case:
1. scummiest player votes (who probably has a poor voting history) then other players vote in a pool that contains that player
2. towniest player votes (who probably has a good voting history) then other player vote in a pool that contains

that towny player

it's pretty easy to see that option 1 goes thru 2 poor odds in order to lead to a coordinated scumyeet when option 2 goes thru 2 better odds.
it trades odds of success for avoidance of responsibility 4 the townie players just because it's more pleasant 4 them and they can.

u spent the day hardpushing me. is the reason u don't have a vote down just cause u think compliance w arbitrary rules is cool?

if i can't have a no-yeet i'm probs voting u, not even 4 this, but cause i think ur stance on molding as a guarantee townstamp from scum is too naive to be believable.

i'd rather do the noyeet tho, so i'll give it 24h yet.

[tictac]

This is egregiously wrong in a way to, using your own words, is a stance too naive to be believable.

In a vacuum, yes, lylo is better than Mylo.

We are not in a vacuum.

In this game, we both have a very obvious nighykill in the form of Three Bears (they are a universal townread with BOATLOADS of reasons to be town), but ALSO the looming threat of the mold.

u can't just agree w everything i say and then say i'm egragiously wrong

You are blatantly and egregiously ignoring the very real threat that the mold possesses.

so far i have observer zero mech effect from mold. maybe u have some specific fear youd like to adress rather than general fearmongering?

And a nolim just means that someone who we COULD have had contributing, would instead be dead.

ah yes. noraa going "i dunno" is supes helpful cotribution.
adding one more headless chicken to the flock doesn't make them better a better football-team.

That, and even your stated reason for scumreading me is bullshit.

If every claim of being molded were a townstamp as you're saying that I am saying, then it'd mean that the scumteam would be precisely you+Norwee. Is that a scumteam which I have proposed?

…No?

…Yeah, thought not.

Bears is molded when mold is a scum ability; Bears cannot be scum.

I am town; I have been molded; I am not scum.

seem to remember u saying this of roden as well. ii'll look 4 it if it's relevant.

So, OBVIOUSLY, mold is not a guaranteed town stamp. One of Ceph/Roden MUST be scum. In other words, this post is bullshit in every way.

u neglectected to point out anything that was wrong w the post.

(is this helpful for folks? debate like this is better placed in LYLO-situation where we would both have votes down and people could usefully play referee. feels like skipping a step)

[tictac]

oh one more point in favor of noyeet:
galron gets a msg and if a scumster neglected to mention one 4 today will be able to say so (potentially)

[tictac]

Gonna be voting Tictac tomorrow. I'd like if they voted somebody first though, instead of sticking to No Elim.

see, that is either a lose-condition, or voting outside of (u,norw) will have been a mistake.
aka u leaving no valid incentive to comply

[tictac]

likely

that yea.
see 6440 why that would be good.

[tictac]

ok. both scum in (ceph, norw, mastina)
scum-mastina voting there is probs cause me scumreading her is better than me focusing on (ceph,norw) so probs more vulnerable of those is her partner.
i wanna say town mastina waits a bit more before voting to see the effect of the 2 votes first.
@ mastina it's meaningless to say mold is malevolent if u can't give an example of

how

in practice it could be malevolent.

[tictac]

VOTE: mastina
(mastina,ceph) is my current answer w mastina the more certain one.

[tictac]

Mold could be an arsonist like action, able to kill everyone.

i which case nothing we do today will matter. game would be called already.

Mold could be a vanillaizer, disabling the role of the player infected.
Mold could be a method of proxy-killing, by directing the kill to be done by an infected individual.
Mold could be a roleblock of the players infected.
Mold could be a redirector, able to redirect the actions of the players infected.
Mold could serve as a rolecop, giving information.

all of these translate to "no effect" in current situation.

Mold could cause everyone except mold to lose.

3p power. i agree that balance makes this very unlikely.

so yea. after eliminating the impossible. "no yeet" is the best answer even if "mold is supes weak" is improbable.

[tictac]

i which case nothing we do today will matter. game would be called already.

unless u seriously saying i randed an arsonist equivalent and then claimes ascetic in my first post.

[tictac]

i which case nothing we do today will matter. game would be called already.

unless u seriously saying i randed an arsonist equivalent and then claimes ascetic in my first post.

and even this assumes i gamethrew for lols and didn't immolate last night.

[tictac]

am i a super powerful scum-pr or someone who is getting bussed into oblivion.
cause i'm kinda getting mixed messages here.

[tictac]

when was the "dead thread slip" anyways?
perchance the night after mastina claimed molded?

[tictac]

I would imagine the wincon as a M3P being "infect all living players"

in which case a noyeet would still be the best action here because nk+yeet > yeet, and scum doesn't want to lose to mold3p either.

[tictac]

I would imagine the wincon as a M3P being "infect all living players"

in which case a noyeet would still be the best action here because nk+yeet > yeet, and scum doesn't want to lose to mold3p either.

ok. unless i'm the mold, which is like really? and if i was yeeting me would still be a town loss.

[tictac]

this proof gonna assume mastina-town again, i'm guessing, but cool.
we can do the noyeet then?

[tictac]

2 months or so ago, in the alternate universe where tictac is town

"hey mastina i have an idea. let's try to throw the game as hard as we possibly can."
"brilliant idea cephrir. you are such a genius. we will win by losing."

lol.
pmuch what happened in mold!Norway world.

[tictac]

like tictac, the team is either you and someone or

mastina and cephrir.

There are no other possibilities. From you point of view me and roden are conftown.
Norwee is not i suppose but you havent even tried to solve as much as i have and im not the one at e-1 right now.

i mean yea.
i don't think norway is groupscum.
i dunno what solving u think there is 4 me to do here.

[tictac]

Norwees posts this past day are just not coming from scum. There's a huge lack of agenda and Norwee scum would be pushing a town elimination for the win today, which they could fairly easily get. Most of Norwees posts are sort of like hmm analysis analysis and waiting for others to chime in rather than driving an elimination that wins scum norwee the game here. In a gamestate like this, mislims aren't hard if you push hard and appear towny. Slow games are scum's play ground. Norwee does not play this way today as scum.

who is the opposite of this? /r

[tictac]

i don't think norway is groupscum.

so you think mastina and cephrir is the scum team for sure but instead we should be no limming?
from your perspective, you should be 100% certian thats the team if norwee is town to you. make this make sense please

me knowing things doesn't translate to other people knowing thigs.

[tictac]

me knowing things doesn't translate to other people knowing thigs.

and lylo-mech does allow some knowledge-transfer.
scum in (tic,mastina) 4 example once theres some votes down.
in case that needed spelling out.

[tictac]

except you know well that i have been saying mastina and cephrir might be the scum team for a while. And from your perspective i am conftown. why arent you convincing me of that and instead spending your time screaming for no elim? What does that change for you? i die today and you have an even smaller chance of convincing anyone.

i haven't given u a huge amount of thought once u became conftown tbh.

[tictac]

yes yes you're going to win tomorrow, i know, might as well start gloating early

hey, ur 1v1 could be lots easier if it was against me!
why not help me yeet mastina today?

[tictac]

[tictac]

i hope dearly that this was a good choice. we made it as a hydra and uh, fingers crossed!

-noraa

nope

[tictac]

i'm hoping norw was mold and this is instawin 4 him

[tictac]

if it's not though, like have tictac claim 3p. i definitely think survival rates would've been higher. shrug.

i semi considered doing that, but didn't think it would be believable

[tictac]

if it's not though, like have tictac claim 3p. i definitely think survival rates would've been higher. shrug.

i semi considered doing that, but didn't think it would be believable

is this a scum claim o_O

no. i was kinda screping the barrel trying figure out how not to insta-lose.

[tictac]

ceph & norw not totally impossible, i suppose, but would be

really

surprising

[tictac]

[tictac]

this is the game that catboi hard scumread me b/c I made a "scummy" entrance, right?

u got shot before being able to post.

[tictac]

good game.
gongratz to scum, u did well.

[tictac]

im pretty sure tictac and i have a pstyle clash

i don't think so?
my read on ur slot was
noraa: town
titus: null
pinkie: scum
with some variation on strength of each