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[That Idiot Ivan]

VOTE: idiot ivan
who are you?

An idiot.

VOTE: mastina

Let's see what happens...

[That Idiot Ivan]

Nice to know I'm not the only idiot here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Also, 'role PM' apparently involves no capitalization. To be fair fferyllt isn't capitalized, but I believe Cabd is. And for bonus points, 'run-on sentences' generally uses a hyphen. That's not at the end of the post though, so minimal judgment.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Logic says that you are. gut says otherwise.

Gut says

what

who?

[That Idiot Ivan]

SirCakez is concerning.

Rogue is better than null on the town side, but given the players I'm not taking that to the bank any time soon.

I'm also ignoring that chess game unless someone says I have to pay attention to it. Chess is really not my thing.

P-edit: okay, fine, I'll keep half an eye on it. Cats are such assholes.

[That Idiot Ivan]

SirCakez is concerning.

Hmmm, why?

Also curious abt the chess game

Short answer is none of his posts read to me as coming from an 'I received a town role PM' mindset. But early days.

[That Idiot Ivan]

What’s the long answer?

Requires a longer iso I'd say. The short answer should be enough for you to decide if you would march in lockstep with me. Of course we all know what happens to people marching in lockstep with me!

And like I said, early days.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Besides, I like my RVS vote where it is given the total snubbing I got from mastina in her reads list.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Like anyone is clicking your links ever again.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I mean, I am an idiot.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Having read the progression of the The Bombay push and the fallout arguments, and then reading ISOs separately, I think jjh and Dwlee look the worst. (yes, a very novel opinion, etc.)

Looking over the game as a whole, I want more useful content from Shiro. She (? correct me if another pronoun is preferred) doesn't have anything useful on board. I'm also assuming Ydrasse will come smack Pooky upside the head and give us actual game content too, although I'm less freaked there since it's Pooky and The Bombay aside, I don't see these mods giving a 'no words' type posting restriction.

I'm back after my flight, catching up. There is something I do have noted that is probably worth coming back to later.

Later yet? I'm curious.

Right now I'm (very) cautiously townreading LLD for how she's gone about her pushes. I need to look at more of her scum games to have a better idea of whether I'm townreading her for real stuff or personality. I think part of the townsense is because I'm lightly townreading The Bombay, and if this was scum-LLD pushing them, I don't think she'd back off and pivot so quickly. Her force of personality here is stronger than theirs and the way she dropped that thread of the push felt like town-her more.

I'm not ready to give up my RVS vote on mastina with the three-player mafia comment. She's modded games with unexpected scum numbers; I think in a game like this where complexity is likely, it's a very narrow-minded comment to make from her. I also dislike the proxy vote thing on principle, but that's NAI. Like Cakez, I want to see where she goes.

Too many null-pings for me is where I'm at. (Mala > notscience), skitter30, T3 are my town pings.

[That Idiot Ivan]

UNVOTE: mastina

I was grumpy about the three mafia thing, but reading back with a fresh head, it comes across as a reasonable starting point. Without getting too far into the weeds, for day one scum hunting purposes this would be the right philosophy. Third parties irrelevant unless we get evidence of their existence, and based on morph mod meta, individually and together, it's unlikely a third party would be a priority threat to town. If it's multi-ball, the same idea of plenty of places to scum hunt while backburnering LLD applies. Knock that and the NAI-proxy-vote shit out of her ISO and I don't actually mind it too much. She has some takes that read as genuine and unconcerned with fitting in enough that they read with town motivation.

I'm back after my flight, catching up. There is something I do have noted that is probably worth coming back to later.

Later yet? I'm curious.

StrangeMatter, is this still relevant?

Suripoko I actually forget but there was something

This massively pings. I realize they backtracked and claimed 'LOLblinded by images' but it's bullshit. Not hard to go back and look at the eight post pictures to determine if there was something if that list was intended as anything more than a throwaway 'look at me I'm working so hard' thing.

Cakez: reaction to me ~existing~ + the reaction to mastina

Strange: also reaction to my existence + I think I've been proven right by their continued play around my slot

Mastina should be obvious

Your reasons to townread the people as cited above are beyond opaque and look more like people you don't want to deal with trying to pretend to scumread. Nothing I feel anyone should feel compelled to counter with brilliant arguments.

[That Idiot Ivan]

In particular, for mastina:

- i strongly dislike her bombay read (i think all of their reads are fine, and i think she's ignoring the context of multiple rickrolls to call bombay's rogue vote 'bad' when it makes sense in context. Feels to me kinda like she's ignoring the context to push the read)

- some of her other reads feel someehat premature to me (ex: the one on rogue), but this doesnt bother me as much as the bombay one

Do you think mastina veers so far from 'popular' opinion? As I said, I'm having trouble separating my dislike of some NAI stuff from her versus her gameplay, but the actual relevant content doesn't look agenda-driven. What are you seeing, if you're up for discussing more about it?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I think assuming Pooky will or won't do pretty much anything as any alignment is a fool's take. I also don't see a world where either mod gives them a posting restriction like that. Scum or town, doesn't matter; see set-up design info in the opening posts.

@skitter, the ignoring context part of The Bombay's vote: is that something scum hang their reads hat on? I need to look back at event sequence too, but I think mastina's Bombay read came after the LLD push on them had moved on; if she's scum reigniting that wagon it was a poor attempt. mastina-scum here would need to be...straw-grasping? Which begs the question why.

[That Idiot Ivan]

@skitter, yeah, reading the linked posts as reasons to think Bombay is faking/surface leveling reads is less than great. The timeline makes the 'unconventional' read less of a possibility.

Looking back at her posting, the readslist is also odd like Dwlee's. mastina, why is Suripoko your second best town read as of 172?

Cakez, why did you open the game by choosing to interact with one of the likely few, if not only, people where you didn't know? I'm trying to figure out where you are this game, and reading your ISO swings back and forth so much. It's reading townier as it goes to me, but the first few posts were very pingy.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Are we playing a game? Cause I want to join!

Vote:Dwee

What book? It's not a game? He is being yeeted?! Oh he is bad because he overreacted to a post calling his memes obvious red flags and then spend 2 pages trying to shield himself behind someone that didn't scum read them, attempting to appear much better by isolating discussion in a much safer environment with them?

Well in that case get yeeted evil rat.

Also this post massively confuses me. And I feel like it shouldn't.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Cakez, why are you having trouble reading Bombay? Where are you on them after catch-up?

[That Idiot Ivan]

SirCakez is concerning.

Rogue is better than null on the town side, but given the players I'm not taking that to the bank any time soon.

I'm also ignoring that chess game unless someone says I have to pay attention to it. Chess is really not my thing.

P-edit: okay, fine, I'll keep half an eye on it. Cats are such assholes.

Why was SirCakez concerning? I don't feel like you've ever elaborated on this and it's just not been talked about it.

I didn't like his first few posts. Especially coming into a game after not playing much recently and opting to first engage with someone in RVS he doesn't know, then the drive-by nature of his early posts. Looked like nervous-scumCakez. I like his more recent posts though, and I've talked to him about the initial entrance already; while I don't entirely agree with the approach, I think he's town motivated. Can link if needed, just on phone now.

VOTE: Dwlee99

I don't like their pushes, I don't like their reactions, I hate the JK thing, and on a personal content level I don't like the 3 AM obtuseness about their comment on my take on Suripoko's posting style choice.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I apologize; I skimmed for votes since the last VC to check if it was E-1 and missed mastina's, hence not announcing it.

[That Idiot Ivan]

VOTE: The Bombay

VOTE: SirCakez
Not as good as Bombay imo but hey I'm down to wagon my second scumread.

So what do we have here. You come into the day after sheeping LLD on an incorrect wagon, but have nothing to say about that state of affairs. You return immediately to your previous day's scum read despite new information from flips. Then despite the plurality rules in play, you immediately jump onto a purported secondary scum read (that has absolutely nothing in your posting to persuade anyone of its likelihood). No probing into your previous strong town read of Suripoko despite their obnoxious hammer.

Care to share why on earth anyone should be townreading this play?

P-edit: Suripoko, cut the crap. Post like a useful player. And explain yourself.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Yeah, you know darn well that that doesn't mean 'hammer without a claim' here.

VOTE: Suripoko

[That Idiot Ivan]

Majority? Who don't you blame?

[That Idiot Ivan]

The point is that town will sometimes just decide to hammer, and sometimes people hammer without realising, and sometimes scum fake either of these sentiments

So since the second of these is clearly crossed off for Suripoko, which is it for them? #1 or #3? (ignoring that the hammer itself could really be called a pile of number two...)

Do you think scum-LLD is incapable of making a believable push on town? Why don't you want to blame mastina?

Do you think all four remaining votes were mindless?

At what point in the wagon should people stop voting and just declare where they would vote while not putting their money where their mouths are for you to optimally place everyone?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Incorrect. I counted from the last posted VC and determined that my vote was E-2. Believe me or don't, IDGAF.

And 'normative social influence,' really? Because social influence supposedly had nothing to do with mastina's vote. Right. Color me unimpressed with your entire mindset.

[That Idiot Ivan]

And Rogue that doesn’t explain anything. How did you come to the conclusion to draw attention to a really bad play? Because I’m still having trouble understanding why someone on town says that and it makes more sense to be something Mafia says.

The hammer was beyond a bad play. This isn't a case of some new player ignorantly quick hammering. Suripoko are making very deliberate choices here. They started out with a gimmick to avoid having to go on record with any actual arguments. Then they quick hammered the first wagon they could. They're taking refuge in charm, amusement value, and audacity.

This isn't town behavior. Pooky will quickhammer a wagon, sure--as scum.

Why are you defending them? Just what redeeming features do you see in anything they've posted? And why should anyone townread a single post they've made?

[That Idiot Ivan]

So, I agree that the hammer was bad. But they did announce that they were going to hammer him a good 200 posts before they were put at E-1. So putting him at E-1 after this post was just as bad as hammering in my opinion.

Incorrect. I counted from the last posted VC and determined that my vote was E-2. Believe me or don't, IDGAF.

You realize there was a mod error in the most recent vote count before I voted, right? And you have played with Pooky, yes? Are you sitting there telling me you think his hammer was town-motivated?

This is an actual question, by the way. Ydrasse and Pooky are both at a minimum solid players. They made what you acknowledge was a deliberate choice, and I'm asking why we should townread that choice. This isn't a large theme where we have time to fuck around and find out.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Rogue's voting off of it being an awful hammer with prior experience with Pooky and awful hammers. SirCakez and Ivan however do not have that.

How on earth would you know that? Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious, this is enough for me to conclude that you're tunnel-visioning to a disturbing extent.

Or did you really think morph let a player with zero on-site experience into a presumed role-madness Upick as a first game?

Not interested in claiming box possession or chess involvement without a much more compelling reason than "I wanna know."

[That Idiot Ivan]

Are you saying you wouldn't have voted if you knew it was e-1?

Given the playerlist, I would have declared E-1 intent.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Regarding boxes, I want to know because it is beneficial to my role to know and by extension it is beneficial to town

Ooh, see, that's assuming I townread you. Which I don't, so run along now.

Are you saying you wouldn't have voted if you knew it was e-1?

Given the playerlist, I would have declared E-1 intent.

In my defense I have a 2/3 success rate and don’t do it that often

2/3 success rate at quickhammering unclaimed wagons D1 and getting scum flips or something else I'm not getting?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm not running anywhere
Discuss your read on me

I'm unimpressed with your D1 content. Lots of refuge in chess game talk and comments that do nothing to help me place you. Your game relevant content comes off as noncommittal, devolving further when pushed. Might be a playstyle difference, but I'm not townreading you off anything you've posted so far.

It also doesn't assume I'm town because from a mechanical perspective you can expect me to do something with the knowledge of who has boxes, making it easier to place me from that perspective

You have game thread access to post and demonstrate that you'd be a good choice to trust, especially since anything I tell you by necessity is told to the thread at large as well. I'm not giving out info unless I think it's going to be used well by a likely town player(s) such that it's worth the risk of scum having it.

[That Idiot Ivan]

How about that I think scum are more likely to want to hide the details of mechanics they don't understand in order to avoid disloyal/loyal shenanigans and this reflects pretty badly on you given your refusal

Loyal/disloyal shenanigans? No idea what that means, but noted on how it reflects to you.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Bombay, what's your read on Shiro?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Loyal/disloyal shenanigans? No idea what that means, but noted on how it

reflects to you

.

Don't you "no u" me

To you, not on you.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Fuck it, let's see what this does.

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

They were informed when the neighborhood formed that someone could be reading along. That someone was me. Based on the interactions and information shared over night phase and so far this day phase, they're very likely both town rather than both scum. I can elaborate later, but I think I'd like to let the thread marinate in this situation first.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm not worried about being blocked given the way my role works.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Oh hi Cakez. If you want to chat when you're caught up that may be a thing.

[That Idiot Ivan]

As the mod of TENET, what do you think of Rogue's reaction? They're inching into the bottom half of my reads, mostly because the top half is looking very town to me, but it leaves me underwhelmed. I'm also assuming it's mostly notscience here given Mala's COVID recovery, as a baseline.

[That Idiot Ivan]

What would you move (aside from yourself presumably) on this reads list:

TOWN
That Idiot Ivan, Lady Lambdadelta, Shiro

jjh927, T3

SirCakez
StrangeMatter

Rogue
The Bombay

mastina

Suripoko
SCUM

Same line reads are functionally equivalent, line breaks differentiate between overall tiers

[That Idiot Ivan]

Oh, and to go ahead and put my money where my mouth is even though I think it's a horrible idea in a vacuum, I had no interaction with boxes last night. Enjoy that info along with a townread, jjh. (and yes, I claimed that in my neighborhood when you initially asked for claims so that it was on record)

Cakez, what do you think of SM's questioning if Shiro was in the neighborhood? Motivationally speaking.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Oh I see the post I missed

In case it wasn't mine:

Oh, and to go ahead and put my money where my mouth is even though I think it's a horrible idea in a vacuum, I had no interaction with boxes last night. Enjoy that info along with a townread, jjh. (and yes, I claimed that in my neighborhood when you initially asked for claims so that it was on record)

[That Idiot Ivan]

No, although I appreciate that one person in this game is capable of noticing potential intentional vagueness.

I'll be on later tonight when I have keyboard access.

In the meantime, if people want spoilers, they should go read what I've actually posted this day phase from my claim on instead of what the paranoiac folk have extrapolated from the parts I've claimed.

[That Idiot Ivan]

As I said, Suripoko is capable of using their words any time they choose to. I have no sympathy for this game of Pictionary.

Bombay, might I suggest you stop trying to sing the song of this game when you've only been given a handful of notes?

[That Idiot Ivan]

As I said, Suripoko is capable of using their words any time they choose to. I have no sympathy for this game of Pictionary.

Bombay, might I suggest you stop trying to sing the song of this game when you've only been given a handful of notes?

This feels suspiciously like you are saying that I should not be trying to solve with the information that I have available, which is like, the entire point of this game.

Bombay, you should consider that other people may have more info than you do and that sometimes dumping everything that has happened/occurred to you in the main thread is suboptimal.

If you're town here, why the fuck do you walk into the game thread at the start Day Two going 'I got blocked,' thereby telling everyone, town and scum, that you have a role that expects to return enough information to know if you were blocked? And then confirm for whoever blocked you (if you're town, I would guess it would have been scum blocking you) that they did indeed get their action through to good effect?

P-edit: JFC, why would you claim that if you're town?!? I don't even care about your alignment any more; my brain hurts from the bad choices and logic.

[That Idiot Ivan]

LLD, given that everything I'm claiming is backed up in the hood, I assume you want my full claim later in the process? If not, happy to get this shit done with pronto, but yeah.

Losing a vote if jjh self-resolves and exits isn't to our advantage if we don't start eliming scum.

And really, Bombay? You do whatever LLD tells you to? And that doesn't explain your start of day behavior claiming anything at all. Do walk me through your thought process there.

[That Idiot Ivan]

For starters, a third party's presence means town needs to be more buffed. If he fulfills his wincon and leaves or if we have a bad start and it looks like scum is pulling ahead, he basically counts against us. How many games have you played with third parties?

[That Idiot Ivan]

For example, ffery's recently ended Shakespeare game. Wisdom's third party role being able to straight-up leave the game meant that he wouldn't be around to count any longer. Hence adding in the part where he could choose where to distribute his coins upon exiting.

Elsewhere, I have no words. At least no nice ones.

[That Idiot Ivan]

As the one who's been royally fucked by Bombay's hubris here, I think they should shush and stop doing more damage.

[That Idiot Ivan]

WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING?!?!?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Bombay, just for what it's worth since you are probably missing the mechanical subtleties here-

LLD and Shiro are conftown from each others' perspectives as a result of Ivan's role. I believe 'parity cop' is just a way of simplifying how the role actually works in practice, and that they have effectively received the result on each other in some way.

No, they only have what I told them. Beyond that they're using their own judgment.

Fuck it, let's see what this does.

My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.

They were informed when the neighborhood formed that someone could be reading along. That someone was me.

I'm not worried about being blocked given the way my role works.

Here's what I've actually claimed about my role. I'll flavor claim while I'm at it: r/unexpectedfriends

Once the day ends, my role targets two players to neighborize in one neighborhood. They get immediate access to post. I'm informed of who's been chosen, and then I decide if I want to use any of my powers. Yes, powers, plural. All are one-shot. Once I submit an action or declare I'm taking no action, I gain viewing access to the PT. I can post from then on if I choose, but if I've chosen to take an action, that action is blocked if I post before night ends/mods clear me. Neighborhood dissolves when the following day phase ends and the process repeats.

Key info there is that my parity cop is one-shot and I have no control over who gets targeted for my neighborhoods. Given info is stronger early game and both targeted players were on a town wagon flip, I opted to use the parity cop shot N1. Hence not being concerned about being blocked in the future. That isn't my only one-shot power, but it's definitely my best one.

I was fucking well trying to bait the NK here, but hotshot-Bombay decided that it was way more important to assume they knew best about what could possibly be in a role madness game designed by Cabd and ffery. And no one decided to tell them to shush. Which left me in the position of whether this is scum-Bombay is throwing enough shade on me to make sure their team doesn't have to use a NK on me, or town-Bombay gets set up for a miselim if they do get my flip.

I've also found it extremely informative to see how people reacted to the information. I'll make a separate post about that, but the people who freaked out at the prospect of me being ungated and unlimited based on their own fears definitely pinged.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I promise you, Lukewarm, I'm genuinely mad. You might have to wait for post-game or dead thread to confirm it, but trust me, I'm pissed as hell.

You're always so convinced that your perspective is the only possible one and that your purported logical conclusions and plans are the only way to go. Like, congrats, you're probably town; how much did you burn to the ground to get there?

Just because shit can fire night one doesn't mean it will. Your claimed investigative's existence and Dwlee's weren't guaranteed to be available. And circumstances exist where I wouldn't have used mine immediately.

[That Idiot Ivan]

A knee ways,
I had a feeling That Idiot Ivan could be town because :waves hands: roleblocker helps scum combat all the investigatives, but I'm also not surprised that its a one shot.

Of course you did.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I promise you, Lukewarm, I'm genuinely mad. You might have to wait for post-game or dead thread to confirm it, but trust me, I'm pissed as hell.

You're always so convinced that your perspective is the only possible one and that your purported logical conclusions and plans are the only way to go. Like, congrats, you're probably town; how much did you burn to the ground to get there?

Just because shit can fire night one doesn't mean it will. Your claimed investigative's existence and Dwlee's weren't guaranteed to be available. And circumstances exist where I wouldn't have used mine immediately.

If you really are town, the I guess I am not sure why this anger is directed at me. I claimed an investigative role strategically trying to draw the night kill on the same night I would be unkillable. That does not burn anything to the ground.

Unless you are mad that I scum read you and didn't believe your claim, which also does not seem like the right way to approach this game.

But literally everything I revealed about my role that you seemed to think was a dumb thing to reveal, was me trying to get killed.

Up until LLD, who from your point of view should be confirmed town, pushed the rest out of me. Why are you not shouting at LLD?

Your anger feels misplaced. I said over and over that I did not want to claim the part of my role that was actually bad for me to claim.

Because it was completely unnecessary. You were sufficiently townread to potentially draw the NK tonight anyways at the point when the day started. You didn't need to broadcast information to scum (and yes, I'm assuming at this point that you're town, which factors into my annoyance) and you're the ones in control of your role information. If you're town, you know you're town. Barring mod info, that's more than you know about anyone else. It was just all so...pointless.

I'm not thrilled with LLD either, don't worry. But I'm pretty sure she doesn't care, so. There we are.

Bombay, might I suggest you stop trying to sing the song of this game when you've only been given a handful of notes?

Hey, this probably applied to you when you got mad at me mentioning the roleblock. You didn't know I was a commuter. Gasp, turns out Luke did think that roleblock comment through, and you just didn't have all of the information.

It really didn't. I'm upset that you're trying to pretend like you knew that my investigative power wasn't incompatible with yours when you spent the entire time since my claim stating that I couldn't be a town role. This is probably a discussion to be had more productively post-game when we both know one another's alignments as a guarantee and aren't frustrated in the moment.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Do you think that with a likely 7:3:1 split we're in a good position to have all the info on the table? I'm doubtful that a morph game is that readily solved.

[That Idiot Ivan]

You know that Cabd and ffery are going to include something to punish town for giving scum free info. I don't think we're that confused at this point.

[That Idiot Ivan]

So, tallying up reactions here.

Lady Lambdadelta, Shiro: if scum, fuck me, they put on a hell of a neighborhood show, gg from me.

Rogue: I really expect more from notscience here. I don't like the easy dodge behind 'TENET was so scary, I can't possibly analyze any of this beyond paranoia.' It's plausible, but it did nothing to improve my read on them. Having a D2 claim that there are two very likely conftown players available on the table and doing nothing with it beyond turtling is so useless. There was some reachout from Mala, but it wasn't enough to launch my read above the reactions of others.

T3: I went back and reread his ISO because I know that a lot of his posts I've read and thought they came from a town place, but there wasn't anything that lined up enough to be memorable. There's a lot of noise, but when I get to one of his game content posts, I find/found myself nodding in agreement. Looking back I'm still there, and his posts today don't leave him a lot of wiggle room on Suripoko's flip. His reaction to my claim was in line with his previous posts' mindset. Not distraught, but more observing.

The Bombay: Lukewarm doing Lukewarm things. This hydra has gone into every post from an extremely cemented 'we are town' mindset, even if the results don't match up. I'll get over it, but it's town.

SirCakez: Also not a reaction of 'OMG where does this leave my scum team room to go?' I got about as much as I'd expect to from town-Cakez given the V/LA.

StrangeMatter: this was probably the most informative reaction. They went way off into left field later in the process, after the scum PT likely had a chance to react, and addressed the question by wanting Shiro to confirm she was in the neighborhood at all. This...is really not the reaction of a scum team member who's concerned about how to chip away at a 2-3 person town block, depending on how you read my involvement. The answer was clearly going to come back in the affirmative, and it doesn't do anything to help a scum standing.

jjh927: rendered irrelevant; didn't look like concerned scum though

mastina: I skimmed the 'rah, rah' case. I think Bombay has demonstrated the absurdity of thinking that having a role in the same family counters another player's role. More to the point, this reads as invested mastina-scum. It's a big story she's telling, with points she can get really passionate about. And she latched onto the idea that my role was overpowered with surprising facility. She's also pulling out tiny things to nitpick about (obnoxious being the starring role there), and the threads of her 'solve' are flimsy enough that she can drop the whole mess once a piece flips town.

SirCakez is concerning.

Why was SirCakez concerning? I don't feel like you've ever elaborated on this and it's just not been talked about it.

Oh it's probably StrangeMatter since this is scum theater here.

It also is proof of why Ivan is scum btw; if SirCakez was so concerning, why was SirCakez not one of Ivan's targets?

Like this. Makes a nice tale, easy to shrug and go 'oh well' when it gets a hole in it.

Add in the kissing up to LLD about how she was clearly the second choice for NK because she was so town for her Day One play, but yet the assumption that someone could pocket LLD in a neighborhood. The claim that scum would want to clear two people from a wagon on town.

I also don't like the way she set up those chained elims in the event that either Bombay or I flipped:

One of them is town, the other is scum, pretty much guaranteed.

Also, not that I expect a change of direction from this, but it amuses me and so I ask.

If you believe jjh to be town you shouldn't be trusting Ivan to be town.

About that...

Suripoko: Look, Pooky's had two games in the past year where he effectively quickhammered as scum. Bloodstained (with mitigating motivations, sure) and here's where Pooky effectively quickhammers in Grand Idea game last year. Claiming you're going to do something anti-town in advance doesn't magically make it pro-town. This is cheeky scum. He has plenty of experience deciding how to ride out this kind of move. I'm not interested in voting out anyone except Suripoko and mastina, and Suripoko takes priority for me.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Hey Bombay, if you're around, questions: did you agree with my explanation on why town is likely getting a certain level of power? And if so, do me a favor and in your hydra PT or wherever, summarize all the claims on the table. (I've done this elsewhere; I have something of an advantage in having info from my neighborhood as well) See what the picture looks like, including the dead folks.

With Dwlee dead and more info on board, I'm also coming around to the POV that if anyone has chess game info it should be claimed today; then anything after today is a scum claim on that topic. Mostly because I'd like it resolved, and I do agree that it's the part of T3's posting I like least.

[That Idiot Ivan]

That's fine, I was irritated last night. Unless you think there's anything to be gained in whinging about prior assumptions made, I'd rather work on solving here today and fight over the quality of play from various players when the game's over.

To be perfectly clear, it's your lack of result and only that that tells you were blocked? This is important.

And let me know if anything comes of you looking at the claims compilation.

[That Idiot Ivan]

That's fine re: claim/setup stuff, as I'm not even sure if my assessment is accurate with more info than you likely have.

Has anything changed about your Suripoko read?

[That Idiot Ivan]

For Suri to be scum, it feels like literally all of my reads have to be wrong. x.x

Welcome to Mafia.

Who are your top four town reads? Since I've been asking a lot of the questions this morning, I'll toss my reads out first.

Shiro, Lady Lambdadelta,The Bombay

StrangeMatter
SirCakez, T3

Rogue

Suripoko, mastina

I'm also really curious why you think notscience/Rogue here is worthy of a pass (sorry Mala, from what I can gather he has more content). Last game I played with him he was scum and I spent a decent volume of words screaming it into the void to no avail. I'm not getting those vibes here, but this sure ain't Cobra Kai. This question especially in light of you scum reading the entirety of the Suripoko wagon to some extent...but not really him? I might have missed something, but hence asking.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Marcistar, even if you 'can't' read notscience, your impressions of his play in this game in isolation are still relevant. And this isn't me trying to lead you to any conclusions. I'm really trying to figure out where they fit.

I went back and read the Rogue ISO just now. Phoneposting, so not getting into detail now, but there isn't much content. A lot of it does tie back to Bombay in some way, which I think makes the marcistar-Bombay perspective relevant. They're saying some of the right things, but there's a lack of investment to me. notscience has claimed a plan to sit back more this game as of Day One, but that that doesn't seem to be changing after flips and reveals makes me side-eye.

Mala, I know you've been ill and busy in turns, but I would like to get a chance to chat specifically. Maybe we can make some headway.

VOTE: mastina

I'm good with this.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Where are you on StrangeMatter and T3 right now? I have a sense of your Cakez stance, although I'm happy to chat about it if you think there's relevant analysis to be had. But T3 and SM were both pretty quick fly-bys in your last overall analysis.

[That Idiot Ivan]

What do you think of StrangeMatter outside of interactions with you? Having asked that question, I guess I owe the same look, as my read on SM is self-centered. Also multi-tasking with family stuff, understood.

[That Idiot Ivan]

StrangeMatter, what's your take on mastina?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Also, yes, I'm pushing for a lot of reads from folks, but looking at deadline we end Monday morning in most American timezones, so a bit more than a day and a half. Yes, it's plurality, so we aren't in danger of no elim. Still. Flipping a wagon with three votes on it instead of six is a lot less data. (This announcement has been brought to you by another 'O' word, obvious. In other news, water is wet.)

Plus, if Suripoko is the elim leading up to deadline, we apparently have to factor in time for them to set up their game of Pictionary: The Role Claim Expansion.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I don’t have a good read on them currently. I need to look into them for sure before having something definite there.

As per my above post, please do so? (The fun part is you can skip the part of her ISO where she reposted her wall of outrage and just read it once)

[That Idiot Ivan]

Clearly scum need a vanilla parity cop here. Then they could overcome whatever power town has in this role madness game. Oh wait...

[That Idiot Ivan]

But seriously, now I want to make a game where scum get some kind of comparison cop, like send in two names and be told if the investigative function between the two is at parity. So cop and tracker gets the same result as doc and VT.(same), but a watcher and roleblocker get the result (different).

Enjoy the WIFOM.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled scumhunting.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I don't know for sure, and I don't know when I'll have time to do that, how much longer is this phase?

Also, yes, I'm pushing for a lot of reads from folks, but looking at deadline

we end Monday morning in most American timezones, so a bit more than a day and a half

. Yes, it's plurality, so we aren't in danger of no elim. Still. Flipping a wagon with three votes on it instead of six is a lot less data. (This announcement has been brought to you by another 'O' word, obvious. In other news, water is wet.)

Plus, if Suripoko is the elim leading up to deadline, we apparently have to factor in time for them to set up their game of Pictionary: The Role Claim Expansion.

[That Idiot Ivan]

And thus, Ivan isn't going to be lying directly. Ivan is going to be lying by omission. By leaving out the scum part of the role.

Let's have a look-see here, who's doing that again?

Anyone who thinks mastina actually got a 100 character messenger role as her only real power, raise your hand. Look at the flipped roles, look at the other claims on the table. Then look at that. One of these things is not like the others...

Also note that whatever new information I brought to the table (and also note that nothing I claimed was ever a lie or retracted; I just only claimed what town needed to know off the bat to optimize information from reactions) wasn't ever actually used to reevaluate her stance. She had a push, and nothing was going to change her mind. Even if she had to claim to believe I'd pocketed LLD.

I'll take another show of hands from anyone in this game who thinks they could pocket LLD.

This post has been brought to you by another 'O' word, obdurate.

Until tomorrow.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm particularly annoyed that some people seem to think they can get away with not acknowledging we're doing massclaim because of how soon deadline is

You know that Cabd and ffery are going to include something to punish town for giving scum free info. I don't think we're that confused at this point.

Okay, I'll sleep on it.

You and Bombay needed to claim though or I was gonna lose my mind and JJH needed to claim for being a cheeky fucker with answers who wasn't sharing.

I stand by that much at least. But we don't need to rush the rest.

A) the mass claim plan is on hiatus last I heard and B) why on earth would we take direction from a claimed third-party? Except apparently for StrangeMatter.

This post has been brought to you by another 'O' word, officious.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Remind me of your incentive to correctly read and point out Mafia here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I like some of notsci's posting here - what do you think is particularly scummy?

What specifically do you like?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm here. Yes, Suripoko is currently the elim. I prefer mastina but it's a vanity thing since I think both are scum. So. Even if you move to make it 3-3 I think Suripoko prevails because they were at three votes first and/or hit four votes? Plurality weird.

Cakez, please use time you have to point out where Rogue is town to you.

[That Idiot Ivan]

You've played with her more recently than I have. Are you seeing indicators of town-mastina? Without claiming, what do you think of her claim?

This definitely isn't W13 mastina, but with everything she's piled on I'm not giving her a pass for failing to roll over.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Not voting yet; waiting on some info. Shiro, did you implement your plan as you last described in the N1-D2 neighborhood?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Consider my vote on Rogue, but waiting because I want tasty Shiro info first.

[That Idiot Ivan]

LLD, hop in the neighborhood please. It's worth it, I promise.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Okay, done. So after we dump Rogue today, I'm thinking the elimination pool is {me, Cakez, T3}.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'll plan to coordinate with you to make sure you can get that hammer, no problem.

[That Idiot Ivan]

M2 is mastina. Shiro did not make me loyal at any point to my knowledge. I got LLD again (RNGFTW?), but I think I'll let my other neighborhood member claim independently if they choose to.

LLD should probably declare mass claim order here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Correct re: 1306. And mastina isn't capitalized.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm assuming LLD is going to want Rogue to claim first. I believe the only claims outstanding that are actually needed here are Rogue, Cakez, and T3. I've full-claimed in my neighborhood and mostly claimed here.

P-edit: sure, Bombay, claim again. Why not.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Do you get points added to balance your error score for every time you claim?

[That Idiot Ivan]

This is part of why I was so skeptical of Ivan once all the claims were out there, because with me around it already felt busted as fuck.

Was? What are your current reads after yesterday?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I’m less concerned with the claim change, but meh

And what claim change was that?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I never said I was unlimited. At any point.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Go off where? I'm stating that I never claimed to be unlimited. Your trajectory yesterday was mostly 'PT spy-like role scary!'

This:

Ivan makes sense to me as a PT spy. Especially given my read on you guys and your claim plus info we know, it just doesn’t seem likely that there’s a parity cop, who also creates a neighborhood with multiple other people to become masons?

and this:

If 1024 is some shit about how he’s solving in the hood I swear to god I’m nuking that shit from existence.

I’m not playing this “so and so is so town in the hood” game.

Are the last things you had to say about me.

But noted. Where are your other reads right now?

[That Idiot Ivan]

What are your reads overall, Cakez? Or game thoughts?

(I know we're waiting for T3's claim, but I'd like to use this time while we sit around)

[That Idiot Ivan]

You don't think you were the counter to Suripoko-scum? And why do you think I'm town?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Bravoooo

Us being roleblockee by SM more than just killed LLD

Fml

Explain, Mala. Because this looks a lot like Rogue setting yourselves up to swoop in on a blue streak of light as our very own Fairy Merryweather to claim you transmuted a kill on LLD to poison, but now you're not clear on how to spin it with the roleblock.

[That Idiot Ivan]

We are a doctor who

delays

death a la the bleed out mechanic.

Bolding mine.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Also, get back in your hydra.

[That Idiot Ivan]

That sounds like global flavor rather than subreddit-specific. Like a one-shot action scum have that could either be used by anyone or assigned to anyone pre-game.

[That Idiot Ivan]

That's what you have issues with? When the poison mechanic claims are all over the place and you apparently don't even know your role?

[That Idiot Ivan]

LLD, quick neighborhood check please?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Clarification, I was a one-shot bodyguard for my neighborhood denizens last night. So BP, BG, doc, JK, doc to change kill to poison

[That Idiot Ivan]

As a note, we have a bit over three days until deadline. This isn't plurality again, so it might be a decent idea for people to start posting up their thoughts while there's time to discuss them.

Bombay, can you go back and look at Rogue's claim in light of SM's claimed JK (which, having witnessed the interaction in the neighborhood, I'm reasonably certain happened) and see what might be setting off my doubts? Mala's posts were especially interesting to me.

I have thoughts on mastina-Cakez-T3 still, but Rogue sorting is priority for me today.

mastina, I'd also suggest you think about why if you're town I'd have to be about the least savvy and most disorganized scum player around to let things unfold as they did. Yes, WIFOM is a thing, but there's plausible deniability and then there's leaving gold bars unattended at a Wild West saloon.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Cakez, you around?

[That Idiot Ivan]

we can do T3 idgaf

You should gaf.

And Bombay, I didn't make anyone bulletproof. I bodyguarded.

[That Idiot Ivan]

So you're all good with Rogue claiming that they're the ones who can commute a kill to poison, and yet you were poisoned when they were blocked? And that Mala posted:

Bravoooo

Us being roleblockee by SM more than just killed LLD

Fml

indicating that their action would have had a better outcome for you than the poisoning you ended up with?

I agree on the vote count consideration. Actually want to look back at that again here...

[That Idiot Ivan]

Suripoko

(4): SirCakez, Rogue, T3,

Shiro

SirCakez (3):

jjh927

, mastina,

Suripoko

mastina (3):

Lady Lambdadelta, That Idiot Ivan, StrangeMatter

Not Voting (1): The Bombay

Red scum, yellow third party, blue unflipped town in my analysis.

I do tend to think that scum came in with a very clear plan to flip Suripoko regardless of what else happened, and they doubled down on that commitment after the parity cop info.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Cakez Town dies 6 town 2 scum
scum shoots 5 town 2 scum
Mastina town dies 4 town 2 scum
scum shoots 3 town 2 scum
Rogue scum dies 3 town 1 scum
scum shoots 2 town 1 scum

I agree that two of them are scum, and maybe I'm just fussing at it to be pedantic, but you aren't counting yourself dying at the end of the day.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Just so we're clear mastina, I'm aware of this too, and you can confirm that knowledge.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Imagine, someone not claiming at the drop of a hat.

Do you think scum came in with a plan to avoid bussing Suripoko here?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Suripoko came in trolling from the get-go. I suspect they planned to be spotlit from the start and use their self-redirect to do the N1 kill with minimal interference.

They might have been trying to protect Cakez or T3, but I think N1 kill plus confusion to the enemy was more the drift of things.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Does it line up with his town game? Is he incapable of being tricky?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Make a case for them being town here? Am genuinely curious.

[That Idiot Ivan]

mastina, A) LLD poisoning isn't what I was talking about, B) LLD hasn't cleared me and I haven't asked her to, C) using a bunch of power in a mini to become 'conftown' with one miselim to spare is hardly bad scum play, D) you're wrong about what happens if you're eliminated, and it's really WTF for you to imply otherwise, E) I already asked the mod about strong vs. loyal modifiers privately and got the 'strong pierces loyal' answer; if they don't answer publicly, go ahead and try privately. That last one is to anyone, BTW. No need to take my word on it.

Why are you wasting your time answering a question I posed to Bombay intending to encourage them to look at the various votes for Suripoko and the naturalness thereof? You've been talking about putting up an analysis of who's likely scum. With two days left, maybe go there? Fuck refining it; if you're actually town, stop doing your normal thing of completely misreading me and get to talking about today's elim.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Consider my vote on Rogue. notscience is MIA, Mala came in with an off the wall post, and neither has shown any interest in solving anything this game day.

mastina, your analysis combines your reasons for scum reading each individual as teams for the most part and mostly ignores how people justified their votes on Suripoko or elsewhere. T3 is didn't spew a claim and didn't townread you.
Cakez didn't spew a claim, looks like scum, apparently defended me, and had too much info? Rogue isn't defending you.

Aside from linking me to Cakez in your claim we defended one another and that we had TMI, there's no analysis of these as teams. Does it change your opinion that I had TMI if I tell you I was a player in both the games I cited where Pooky quickhammered as scum?

And by your analysis, there are three players who should "know" this is your towngame, and yet none of us do? (Counting notscience, T3, and me here). We can't all be scum.

What's your current take on Rogue, both how they jumped on Suripoko and their discussion of that elimination today?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Personally, I'm more interested in how folks went after Pooky than vice versa. This reads more as Pooky, agent of chaos! than Pooky, mastermind! to me, given he started out trolling with his crappy paint pics in lieu of posting. Toddler flinging paint or Pollack at work? It looks the same, and we waste a lot more time if we assume it's Pollack here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Cakez, I'm down to the point of Rogue > you > mastina. I am however willing to switch to you to make sure we get an elim through if I can't rally a Rogue wagon.

I'd also suggest that if your role really is gated in some way, give us anything you can to help us get you active. 'I know nothing except it activates somehow' clearly isn't giving anyone anything to work with.

Also, so it's on record, the third neighbor today is StrangeMatter. I mention that because I'd like to give them the option of getting their claimed poison protection, and we'll likely be coordinating a hammer in the neighborhood toward that goal when the time comes. Which becomes relevant at E-2.

[That Idiot Ivan]

MOD: if a player had a strongmanned action, and a loyal modifier to that action, and they targeted someone of a different alignment, would the Strongman cause the action to succeed or would the Loyal cause the action to fail?

12. If you have a question, please PM us. If a question is something that should be answered publicly, we will make a post addressing it without naming who asked it.

They won't answer in-thread. They will answer this if you ask them privately, as I did. I invite anyone wondering about this to make their own inquiries; don't take my word for it.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Earth to anyone?

I have nothing until Rogue slinks back in here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Actually, that's not quite true.

mastina, how come you've spent so much time in your discussion of me talking about how I'm manipulating and pocketing LLD...and yet you've never asked LLD outright if she thinks I'm posting in the neighborhoods in a way that's meant to pocket her? Or asked Shiro yesterday or today what her opinion is?

Why do you keep talking about how skilled LLD is, and yet you assume she'd fall prey to a neighborhood pocketing from someone whose main she didn't know until recently? For all you know I'm spending my time in there writing super-trite Ross/Rachel fanfic.

[That Idiot Ivan]

My question is why it seems Rogue botched their claim and then disappeared completely. And why I haven't seen a good answer for that.

[That Idiot Ivan]

LLD, thoughts upon a Cakez town flip and a Cakez scum flip then?

[That Idiot Ivan]

What does that mean? Mods will lock the thread upon hammer. Hash it out now.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Or do you mean you'll explain while placing a hammer vote?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I already outted SM as our third neighbor. You can plan to coordinate with them in the neighborhood to place the E-1 vote with all your thoughts followed by their hammer if you're that determined not to discuss things before then.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Rogue

T3

Lady Lambdadelta

That Idiot Ivan
The Bombay

mastina

SirCakez

StrangeMatter

Shiro

By my count the bolded purple people above will vote Cakez with you. I'm assuming you can readily get Shiro to join, and probably T3. You know my take from the neighborhood posting. I don't want Cakez at any potential XyLim, but I don't think he's the right choice today. Make a logical enough case to Bombay and you can probably get them too. I'll vote there to avoid a no-elim.

And yes, that holds true even if you concur with mastina that a scum flip from him makes me scum. We need people talking and generating content aside from me, mastina, and Cakez. This game is floundering hard, and I don't know how to light a fire, clearly.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Bombay, consider what assumptions people are making about the chess game, and consider how you would have reacted to the chess game if you'd been the T3 player, both from a T3-scum and T3-town POV. You can disagree obviously, but I think this requires more in-depth consideration.

Also, what did you make of notscience's posting versus Mala's today, and their complete radio silence since Mala posted? Do you think notscience is the type to flake on a game?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Sure. God knows I spent enough time yelling about Annie in Bloodstained. I'm very much aware that if he's scum here he's playing differently. Doesn't make him town either.

Read their ISO pretending you have no idea who this brand-new Rogue is at the D&D table. What's your takeaway?

If you really don't want to talk about a universe where Rogue is scum after that, fine, we'll wait for the replacement and see what happens I guess.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I'm looking for a sanity check on my Rogue read. LLD, I've made it clear I'm not going to stand in the way of a Cakez elimination at this point. If you need my vote to get it to E-2 so you and SM can hammer coordinate, I'll be looking in, but no one's really interested in generating content or interrogating today's events.

Whatever. I really don't have more time for this shit today, maybe tonight if anyone does anything interesting. Write up your T3 case, Bombay; we'll eliminate Cakez today; and let the cards fall where they may.

Oh, hi, Rogue. Go ahead, read up, enjoy the last 24 hours of the day phase. You have carte blanche today, it would seem, so post without fear.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Would you like to town case Cakez then Ivan?

It feels weird for you to be trying to save him while also giving the appearance that you find him scummy.

I do owe this a response. No, I don't have a towncase on Cakez. I'm frustrated because no one here or in my neighborhood is explaining what's town about Rogue and how they're coming from anywhere but a failed gambit place today. My top guess for a scum team right now is Cakez-Rogue, with mastina as the likely scum if one of those is wrong. I just don't enjoy being ignored.

And Rogue, if you know who I am, why is Mala not excited to get in here and change my mind on you?

Now I really am stepping back because I'm in a bad headspace to continue posting, and it probably is healthier for the game thread for other people to interact anyways.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Thinking it over, here's where I am.

I'm not organically scum-reading Cakez. If I'm wrong on that and he flips scum, I'll accept my miselim tomorrow as the price of being wrong, as that would mean I shouldn't be left alive for ElLo. I'll ask for time to post any analysis/opinions, regarding partners or otherwise, I have based on his flip and to have everyone check in.

And I'll definitely stop worrying and learn to love the Rogue-flyby.

Oh, wait.

VOTE: Rogue

Your show, LLD. My vote will move as you need, but I'm not letting this day go by without putting my money where my mouth is.

[That Idiot Ivan]

So much ded.

VOTE: SirCakez

Seven hours, people.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Sure. Okay. Go ahead and explain what you were thinking then. You have the remainder of today still, and if Cakez flips scum there's zero pressure for you tomorrow.

Some reads based on the current gamestate would be just swell too, since notscience saw fit to take off without doing anything whatsoever to improve information flow and readability.

[That Idiot Ivan]

You have three scum reads. Why do you think you have too many?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Bravoooo

Us being roleblockee by SM more than just killed LLD

Fml

So you thought you were delayed, not blocked? And if LLD was outright poisoned, as seems to be the case, what could you have done about it? It seems your ability to...wait

Why are you scum reading SM?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Clarified with mod, BTW. If LLD being poisoned was the result of any normal NK 'shot' my bodyguard if not otherwise interfered with would have intercepted it before it was changed into poison. Basically my bodyguard shot is a big idiot who jumps in front of any recognizable threat but lets poison through. Even if the kill target is BP in their own right or some such, I take the shot anyways.

So unless we think scum messed with my bodyguard or you don't believe I took that action, LLD was directly poisoned.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Why do you think I'm town, Mala?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Also, I believe the current VC looks like this:

SirCakez (3): Lady Lambdadelta, mastina, That Idiot Ivan
Rogue (1): The Bombay
mastina (1): SirCakez

Not Voting (4): StrangeMatter, T3, Rogue, Shiro

With five hours to deadline and five to elim

[That Idiot Ivan]

Vote:SirCake

I havent ready anything and will read up overnight.

I see all my townreads voting there however.

I mean, to be clear, if he flips scum I'm eliminated tomorrow. I'd suggest reading up.

ughhhh mastina's arguments are complete garbage but deadline is close enough that it's not realistic to move the wagon

Thinking it over, here's where I am.

I'm not organically scum-reading Cakez. If I'm wrong on that and he flips scum, I'll accept my miselim tomorrow as the price of being wrong, as that would mean I shouldn't be left alive for ElLo. I'll ask for time to post any analysis/opinions, regarding partners or otherwise, I have based on his flip and to have everyone check in.

And I'll definitely stop worrying and learn to love the Rogue-flyby.

Oh, wait.

VOTE: Rogue

Your show, LLD. My vote will move as you need, but I'm not letting this day go by without putting my money where my mouth is.

So much ded.

VOTE: SirCakez

Seven hours, people.

and someone is gonna call this "distancing" but I'm about to flip green so whatever
Ivan's progression here doesn't make much sense at all and it should be pried into tomorrow

...this isn't progression; this is a super-apathetic playerlist where the best thing going is sheeping LLD because no one except Bombay has any stated interest in eliminating Rogue.

GTH (since you basically do have a GTH) what's your Rogue read?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Would appreciate giving LLD a chance to give her thoughts as promised as well.

[That Idiot Ivan]

If you have time, summary of your mastina read?

[That Idiot Ivan]

It doesn't matter; if Cakez is scum I die next whatever he says, given I've gone on record for that; if not we can take his reads and yours together to figure things out.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Nope, SM will hammer.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Nothing else here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Maybe it is the dead thread. Accidental Renaissance, rebirth?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Sigh...
Do we have the people to switch the wagon?

I'm not moving. Not after you stomped on my attempt to even discuss other people after your declaration. I want this resolved, and if he's scum I die tomorrow; if not we get to muddle through.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Although I am kind of curious. Did anyone actually follow up on what I said and check with the mods about a strong/loyal interaction resolution? Or is that also dangling in the wind?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Did you fullclaim to Suripoko, Shiro?

[That Idiot Ivan]

...so just the important stuff. Alrighty then.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but no eliminating Rogue on autopilot. Literally everyone is or has advocated that now, which means there's bussing, and we need to sort out second scum. Very important, like second breakfast. We're best served by doing that now while we're guaranteed to have two all-but-conftown folks around to participate.

Also, sorry, SM, but you did know that Shiro is a hider--I checked the post history in our N2-D3 neighborhood notes I kept (most unwieldy notes PT ever) and I told you. Probably got lost in the shuffle. (yes, everyone loses access to our Friends neighborhoods when they close, annoying as fuck, but I have warned everyone involved)

mastina, while I'm waiting for a particular neighbor to read my latest post, can you explain how unlocking a crier ability makes you IC yourself? And why you didn't target a scum read? Since my understanding is landing a message would be the third to unlock crier status, and the act of unlocking it would confirm to you and ultimately the game if the message went through?

[That Idiot Ivan]

SM, same flavor as LLD for the poison?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Shiro, independent of mechanical considerations, what's your read on mastina between the game thread posts and your neighborhood postings? Specifics are good if you have them. I'd normally try to do a reread of her ISO to reset my read, but I don't trust my objectivity there right now.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Mastina is town don't even try to muddy that.

What was the discussion like leading up to the SM target choice? What was her reaction to the Cakez flip in your neighborhood?

[That Idiot Ivan]

I mean, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you too. Got your checkbook on you?

[That Idiot Ivan]

So why do you think it makes sense for her to target SM with a disloyal message? What, outside of the Loyal modifier, is making you townread her on the merits of her play and discussion? This isn't a trick question. I'm trying to figure out what to make of her here.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I asked that question at the start of Day Three and got a 'succeed' answer; strongman overrides Loyal if in existence. I told people to ask the mods themselves quoting the rule that indicated they would answer private but not public. And asked at the end of the day if anyone did it.

To avoid the Disloyal part you just don't actually send the message. No strong modifier required for that.

More important thought than immediately getting into it in the next post

[That Idiot Ivan]

I owe SM an apology. Did Cakez poison Rogue from beyond the grave?

[That Idiot Ivan]

Okay kids, don't post when impaired. Ignore supremely dumb idea.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Have ffery or Cabd ever run a game where scum *don't* multitask?

It doesn't matter. Shiro and Bombay are both certain that it's not you, mastina, so I just get to hope they're right and that you hitting all the notes on me you used to back in 2013-2014 is just a coincidence. And that Cakez and LLD both didn't townread you because they were off.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Honestly? I don't really care about your giant wall of 'I never do this as scum' stuff. It's very clear that I'm not going to carry the day on that one, and it works out for me either way. If T3 is scum, we win tomorrow and I'll take the W. If you're scum, I get to be right (which some days is Even Better than winning) and such.

I suspect Rogue is going to lurk this out. Consider my vote ready to go there when everyone is done chatting. Last thoughts from SM would be especially appreciated.

[That Idiot Ivan]

Can you give your two cents on tomorrow's elim? Pool is {me, T3, mastina} barring massive shenanigans IMHO.

[That Idiot Ivan]

I assume Shiro is good to go. If I get confirmation of that, I'll vote. Just waiting on anything anyone else has to say, but it's pretty dead, so.

[That Idiot Ivan]

VOTE: Rogue