Open 843 - Divide & Conquer - Game Over!

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Todoroki

[Dunnstral]

Group Alpha:
Dunnstral
Dwlee99
Save The Dragons
Brighter Puppy
Kuriyama
Prism

Group Beta:
Todoroki
innocentvillager
mc esther

idk think this grouping alone says mc esther is scum in group beta

Can you explain why you think mc esther would be the scum in the second group?

[Dunnstral]

Why does everyone say I’m difficult to read

I also would have picked Dunn instead of someone random if I was scum tbh

Or fire

Someone cool but also *actually* hard to read

Why put hard to read players in the group of 3 instead of the group of 6?

[Dunnstral]

You’re right Dunn I clearly haven’t put a ton of thought into the setup other than selfish wish who I’m with so I’m probably town for not thinking of the optimal answer

Nice talk

Why answer like this instead of answering the question

[Dunnstral]

I was in that game too

Copying my notes: eliminating 3-person hood mafia day 1 is bad because it means the next 2 kills are the town players in the 3 person hood

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Dunnstral]

i actually really despise being read either way for dumbtelling because ive faked dumbtelling as scum before to get townread.

That's what Kuriyama is saying

[Dunnstral]

Just here to tank my slot so Fire will deal with the mess. :)

- Norwee

[Dunnstral]

I agree with the above mech

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: todoroki

i'll have like, an actual post in a bit. maybe. didnt realize i let this game slip so far, it was a bit of a rapid-fire blur for me when i dipped out but it seems to've calmed down now. prism's posts will be, uh, interesting; i obviously dont (cant!) really agree with some of it, but i appreciate that the posts are closer to my "language" than puppy's (like, less shitposty, more deconstructive-analytical).

Why do you think it is Todoroki over IV?

[Dunnstral]

Todoroki was a bad wagon

[Dunnstral]

pretty sure we kill small hood if Luke flips town because we want to avoid the 5p elo

Well I'm not doing that

[Dunnstral]

I always post at this time

[Dunnstral]

Todoroki was a bad wagon

A little late Dunn

I don't think it is prism

Can you make an argument for why you think it is them (?) or is possible

[Dunnstral]

Killing in small hood tomorrow is always right

It actually isn't though

[Dunnstral]

Pav I deadass spent 10 minutes wondering who the fuck no kills

As a fellow townie, I was also wondering who the night kill was

[Dunnstral]

Yes because a correct elim in the pair of two means the other person dies at night

Which is not ideal for us

Brighter Puppy is also right, there is little reason to try to eliminate in the pair of 2 right now, we do win if we get the mafia in the group of 5. And I'm not sure that figuring out the pair of two gives us information.

[Dunnstral]

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

[Dunnstral]

Theoretical math has no place in this discussion

We win the game by eliminating the mafia in the group of 5.

Does eliminating between IV and Mc Esther help us figure that out or not? What info does that give us Dwlee?

[Dunnstral]

Dwlee you are being really vague about how flipping in the small group helps us

If you can't tell us who would be scum based on what they flip now, how will that change tomorrow?

[Dunnstral]

I am not of the belief that a hidden alt would reveal themselves right away in the scum pt

[Dunnstral]

I've been liking mc esther's posts today and lean towards IV being scum

[Dunnstral]

In regards to Dwlee and Save the dragons: I have especially been not liking Dwlee's posts today, while Dragons is more neutral (though if it's not Dwlee then they look worse today)

VOTE: Dwlee

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, how worried are you about deadlocking?

Specifically, are you aware it is impossible to actually get IV voted out without a drastic shift in the landscape?

I don't intend to vote in the small group today, so for today I'm not worried about it. It becomes a real concern if we eliminate wrong today and then try to eliminate in the small group again.

And if it is not Dragons, and not Dwlee, who would it be?

I think you are more likely than Brighter Puppies, but I believe your self meta on how your day 1 was a town tell for you, and my own feelies. I'm pretty sure it's Dragons or Dwlee.

[Dunnstral]

Perhaps an explanation on Dwlee would go somewhere.

Kuriyama had Dragons as leaning town / didn't talk about them much, but they indicated that they were going to vote for Dwlee today.

This is something that mc esther would not have known when they were making their night kill analysis, if they are town. (And so that is wrong.) It it actually hugely to Dwlee's benefit for Kuriyama to die today.

[Dunnstral]

^Because that post is in the large hood and it was made during night 1

[Dunnstral]

I don't like that Dwlee is advocating to elim in the small hood for info but can't pinpoint what that info is, and won't try to do so.

I don't like their fake looking analysis of their own kill choices:

I also wouldn't kill kuriyama though and your reason sounds more made up

If I were scum one of the puppies or prism would be very dead right now

As it seems pretty unfounded.

I don't like this post:

Well rn everyone is operating on assumption MC Esther is scum right

And I think that assumption also plays into people's reads of her interactions with people in the big group to solve

If we confirm the assumption it doesn't hurt our odds of hitting scum in the big group

If it actually is IV I think the entire game changes

And how does the game change? (Also I disagree with that)

[Dunnstral]

In 6 would go Dunnstral->Dragons->Dwlee->Brighter

Large gap between Brighter and rest

I know your thing is being wrong this game, but me being scum with IV means neither of us were on the day 1 miselim, and then we killed someone who was planning to push somebody else

[Dunnstral]

You misplayed Prism, don't shift that onto me

[Dunnstral]

Pushing IV as the scum with 0 explication and full knowledge they cannot logistically get flipped with way votes were set

Is it my fault they can't be flipped?

[Dunnstral]

And when did I start pushing IV?

[Dunnstral]

Fire still thinks Esther is scum for what it's worth. And that Dwlee has been somewhat townie these recent pages.

If we give wagonomics an chance and assume 1 scum on 1 scum off the day 1 mislim. I feel like we can limit the possible scum pairs to only two.
IV/STD or Esther/Dunnstral

Thoughts?

- Norwee

Actually maybe IV/Dwlee is possible too. In an scum!Dwlee world.

- Norwee

Esther had the opportunity to hammer Dwlee

[Dunnstral]

I'm willing to vote in the wrong group now if we're not also voting the wrong person and we get real information. At the start of the day there was no associatives and there was no reason to do so, and also there was a lot more room for doubt in my reads in the small hood.

[Dunnstral]

Fire still thinks Esther is scum for what it's worth. And that Dwlee has been somewhat townie these recent pages.

If we give wagonomics an chance and assume 1 scum on 1 scum off the day 1 mislim. I feel like we can limit the possible scum pairs to only two.
IV/STD or Esther/Dunnstral

Thoughts?

- Norwee

Actually maybe IV/Dwlee is possible too. In an scum!Dwlee world.

- Norwee

Esther had the opportunity to hammer Dwlee

Your point being?

- Norwee

So why don't they do that if they are scum with somebody who is not dwlee?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: InnocentVillager

[Dunnstral]

in this world i would hammer dwlee for the same reason.

If we eliminate the mafia in the group of 6 today, town has enough eliminations remaining to eliminate everybody in the small group, meaning they automatically win.

[Dunnstral]

IV the reason I'm not answering you is because I've already explained my reads and I made it clear that the 6p hood was the focus today, and you keep trying to get me to talk about the 3p hood. I would have liked to have eliminated Dwlee today but we have to play around Prism already so when both of you/mc esther refuse to hammer dwlee (and one of you is mafia, by the way) we have to play around prism which means eliminating in the 3p hood in order to get a town consensus.

If you are town then you are the bully and not vice versa. You deadlocked something that from your point of view confirmed scum wasn't hammering, and convincing Prism that they're wrong is impossible.

[Dunnstral]

It's not Dwlee because as I've already mentioned our approach would be way different.

It's not STD because I don't shade him for the Todo hammer like I did. I'd be pretty sussed about hammering in general and doubt I would let STD do that. We'd also try to be way more distanced with each other rather than just me loosely calling him leantown for some dumb reason on D1.

I don't believe either of these are clearing

[Dunnstral]

I'm talking to IV, and I was talking about how you are convinced that eliminating in the small group is the play today

[Dunnstral]

Again, I'm not talking about Todoroki, and I've never made it personal. You are making yourself out to be a victim of an injustice that doesn't exist.

[Dunnstral]

This is a mafia game

[Dunnstral]

the only vaguely plausible thing about iv/dunn is that they were the two players willing to indulge in my prism scumread (before iv went back to "no he's 100% town fuck off lol"). this does not at all, to me, outweigh my belief that there was maf on the wagon, i think dunn's just wrong.

Actually, I don't think I ever said that Prism was scum?

[Dunnstral]

I love being forced to guess Dunnstral's alignment based off of 2/3 sentences every 48 hours and maybe one strong post a week.

You accused me of oog so I'm in full lawyer up, stay silent, only place votes mode now.

[Dunnstral]

pedit: Dunnstral hi can you please explain your reads on me and esther or quote where you explained them?

Esther looks like town and you don't. They had effort posts that looked good while you didn't have much. Inside the neighborhood I mentioned your progression early on who you were voting and what you were arguing for being weird.

The line is blurring now with your recent posts and I'd really prefer to vote between Dwlee/Save the Dragons (and I have all day), as I believe that one of those two is the mafia in the group of 6

VOTE: Dwlee

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, I still prefer IV.

I think that despite recent events I still prefer IV to Esther

And if I'm wrong I suck I guess

[Dunnstral]

Bad and scummy

You called me scum in response to my read on you, with no thoughts before that

[Dunnstral]

I post at similar times every day, shading the timing of my pop-in is easily verifiable nonsense.

So your case is "Dunnstral is asking a lot of questions but is not doing anything with the answers to the questions."

Most of which are in the first 4 pages, or after the elimination and aimed towards the dying player

Yes, that's a bad case.

[Dunnstral]

I am not of the belief that a hidden alt would reveal themselves right away in the scum pt

I've been liking mc esther's posts today and lean towards IV being scum

In regards to Dwlee and Save the dragons: I have especially been not liking Dwlee's posts today, while Dragons is more neutral (though if it's not Dwlee then they look worse today)

VOTE: Dwlee

My name appears in Dwlee's iso 46 times

Before I made the string of posts above, my name appeared in Dwlee's iso 1 time.

The second time it appears is the next post Dwlee makes after the above, and it's to call me scum

[Dunnstral]

Dwlee you are being really vague about how flipping in the small group helps us

If you can't tell us who would be scum based on what they flip now, how will that change tomorrow?

ISOs will still exist

dwlee, who do you think my buddy is? i dont think i can find a read implying an answer anywhere, aside from some maybe-joking(?) digs at std.

Dunn is scummier than STD but I haven't looked at associatives between y'all

Actually dunn feels like he is very transparently going for lim me -> lim STD for the win

He literally said it

Here is their progression

[Dunnstral]

Second, the pop-in after Todoroki was hammered is just atrocious.

This for post time. I started posting at the same time I do most days.

[Dunnstral]

How many times did I mention anyone day one...

You just brought up your case which was about me on day 1...

[Dunnstral]

Preference list:

IV -> Dwlee -> Dragons -> Dunnstral -> Brighter -> esther

VOTE: mc Esther
I made my decision in three, prism. Such opportunistic nonsense to try to push in six imo. That is borderline scum claim

Not sure what you're expecting here?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: innocentvillager

If we don't do this today and both me and prism die, we lose if IV is mafia because everybody else is angling around voting mc esther after this.

[Dunnstral]

Save the Dragons looks really bad right now.

[Dunnstral]

And by that I mean, it's obviously more beneficial for them to eliminate me than dwlee right now if they're aligned with IV. And they're also stonewalling both the dwlee and IV eliminations at deadline with no justification to instead vote for me. And their explanation for their vote is paper thin.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Dunnstral]

On day 2 Dwlee said the reason to vote in the group of 3 was that most people thought mc esther was mafia and that if innocentvillager was mafia, then, and I quote, "the entire game changes".

When asked about the specifics to that claim, they refused to elaborate, only stating that isos would still be available

Well, I don't see any indication that Dwlee has looked over the isos or reconsidered anything at all. So I ask again: how has eliminating innocent villager helped us, and why was Dwlee averse to voting in the group of 6 yesterday?

[Dunnstral]

Fire is saying that I made a reads list in the mafia thread. No, that isn't a good argument.

[Dunnstral]

Kuriyama townread myself and IV and scumread Dwlee. They died night 1.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that Brighter Puppies preflipped anything until after Dwlee had already made their arguments for eliminating in the small group. Meaning the reasoning at the end of 1366 cannot be correct.

[Dunnstral]

Well rn everyone is operating on assumption MC Esther is scum right

And I think that assumption also plays into people's reads of her interactions with people in the big group to solve

If we confirm the assumption it doesn't hurt our odds of hitting scum in the big group

If it actually is IV I think the entire game changes

If I'm wrong, then by all means, quote a post before 654 where Brighter Puppies preflips anything.

[Dunnstral]

So you don't have an answer for what prism wrote?

Yeah, the game literally changes if a player flips scum, but what was your the cognition behind the idea there?

Your response is now:

My cognition was that the entire game seemed to agree that Esther was scum.

Puppies was preflipping off of it. Etc. And I was thinking hey, we shouldn't preflip like this because if we confirm the preflip it doesn't hurt our odds of winning, so we should try to confirm the preflip instead of just using it.

In addition to being wrong about Puppes preflipping at the time, nobody else was preflipping anything, either. So you saying you had a concern about preflipping is based off of nothing.

[Dunnstral]

And yet you haven't used associatives at all this day phase. Or if you have, it's been a footnote to continue to push what you were already pushing anyway.

[Dunnstral]

I think maybe IV should be flipped

I think maybe IV should be flipped

wait, i think there are numbers of this now? dwlee/esther/prism/dunn?

VOTE: InnocentVillager

Your bluff was called here.

I "sat on IV" because you implied you were going to vote for the elimination. And then you didn't. And during this time Prism was acting like I was the reason that we couldn't eliminate IV, or something.

So I voted, and we still couldn't do it. The only reason we got the IV elimination is because Save the dragons made a completely unexpected flip onto IV at deadline.

[Dunnstral]

Doesn't your theory imply IV is dunn's partner?

how so

Because if Dunn thinks that he told IV something, and your theory is he did it in the scum PT, then IV is in the scum PT.

Was I supposed to pull an enchant and just hammer IV? What did y'all want me to do when he was E-1...?

Pedit: Yea why would I say I'm going to tonight if I wasn't planning to

VOTE: mc Esther
I made my decision in three, prism. Such opportunistic nonsense to try to push in six imo. That is borderline scum claim

[Dunnstral]

Why'd you cut out the posts where I get mad at Esther

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Quote it?

[Dunnstral]

You jumped to defending yourself, but that isn't what we were talking about.

1. You accused me of sitting on IV while hoping the wagon would move.
2. I pointed out that there was enough in-thread interest to have eliminated IV, and that you are the reason that it didn't happen
3. You start quoting where you votes for esther instead. But are you saying that was part of my "plan", or did you shift focus?

[Dunnstral]

I didn't want to answer with my thoughts during the night.

Basically, I don't think it is Prism at all, could see it being Brighter, but ultimately still leaned towards it being Save the Dragons.

Prism is just too invested and could have played this differently - no reason to push on IV

Save the Dragons voting for InnocentVillager was not a horrible move like it's being made out to be if their plan is to eliminate both myself and Dwlee.

[Dunnstral]

Why does Save The Dragons scumread me?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not comparing to your scumgames or previous games. I think you are too invested in arguing about things that wouldn't matter to you for you to be scum.

[Dunnstral]

I don't usually meta unless it's to prove a scumread.

[Dunnstral]

Why wouldn't I just keep pushing esther and try to wait out the deadline

Because then the next eliminations are IV and then one of Dwlee/You, and you didn't know how that was going to shake out.

It's not much different from our current situation, except that you look better for voting IV.

This is where I disagree with Prism: I don't think Save the Dragon's chances of winning changes that much based on voting out Innocent Villager

[Dunnstral]

Why does Save The Dragons scumread me?

Are you asking me or rhetorically asking prism

I permit you to answer

[Dunnstral]

If you think I'm scum what does it matter

What were your posts at the start of the day about if you have this mindset?

I think you should also explain how your read on me progressed to a point where you were willing to vote me over Dwlee last day phase. Because that doesn't make sense to me given the evidence on the table.

[Dunnstral]

I think it'd be a hard throw from Dragons because he can just NK me, and then IV vs. esther becomes a legitimate question. He looks worse for sure but the tradeoff for the chance of winning in 5 way is

absolutely

worth it, which is the entire reason it was better to vote in 3 to begin with.

I disagree, let me go over the scenario:

Official Vote Count 2.07

mc esther

(2): innocentvillager, Dwlee99

innocentvillager

(2): mc esther, Dunnstral

Dunnstral

(2): Brighter Puppy, Save The Dragons

Not Voting

(1): Prism


With 7 employees, it takes 4 to fire.

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-01-28 20:44:58).

Mod notes:

:)

It was clear that you wanted innocentvillager; it would only take 1 of Dwlee or Brighter Puppy to flip to IV for that to go through. Of particular interest is that Dwlee said that they don't want to flip to IV, but they are pretty adamant about

flipping in the group of 3

, which means it is possible and likely that Dwlee would flip to IV before he flipped to me, and that it would be perceived that way.

I think that if Dwlee had flipped to IV, Save The Dragons had a high chance of being the next elimination, so the reason for Save The Dragons as scum to flip to IV is to avoid a scenario where they lose.

Their other option is to force mc esther with Brighter Puppy, and it is them vs Dwlee again.

[Dunnstral]

Why wouldn't I just keep pushing esther and try to wait out the deadline

I want to highlight that the answer to this is that Dwlee probably begrudgingly flips to IV at the last moment and I highlighted that Save the Dragons looked bad with their pushes at end of day yesterday

You are free to explain why Prism didn't keep their vote on me, and I didn't switch my read on Esther. Or why either of those is more likely than what you are defending yourself with here.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I've ever seen town in limlo reply "why does it matter?" when asked about their scumread on another living player in limlo. Especially when they are entertaining doubts about the third player in limlo. And I don't believe that it can come from town, either

[Dunnstral]

Remember when dwlee did that thing yesterday?

No you dont because dwlee did nothing yesterday

you can argue i did nothing yesterday but i was pushing todoroki in my own way

dunnstral's done nothing all game

[Dunnstral]

Save the Dragons also needs to explain how they ruled out Brighter Puppy, because they barely interacted with them or discussed them.

[Dunnstral]

I still don't understand why Save the Dragons has been calling me scum

[Dunnstral]

??

you don't think it's prism but i'm supposed to think it's prism?

or do you want me to case you

I want you to explain why you've been calling me scum this game, including in the past

[Dunnstral]

Alright, let's go over this one at a time.

First, it's nonsense that you're complaining that I've done nothing. In fact you compared me to yourself earlier. To be clear, you have not "done more" than I have this game, despite having several more posts. Especially past day 1. A quick glance over isos confirms this. If you're parroting what Dwlee and Brighter said then I have news for you: they also need to get over themselves.

Second, I don't see how my opinion on Todoraki after they already died was "tmi" or how me being "smug" makes me mafia.

Third, I made it clear that I believed Esther was town and IV was scum, and that I preferred to vote in the group of 6.

Fourth, my push on Dwlee was not 1-dimensional. I outlined reasons that they were scum and they "misremembered" things and only pushed for town.

Fifth, when I said you looked bad it was because you were forcing a narrative of the scum team being esther and myself at the deadline. Both of these votes were wrong, so yes, that does look bad. I dropped it and focused on Dwlee instead after you voted for IV.

[Dunnstral]

Save the Dragons also needs to explain how they ruled out Brighter Puppy, because they barely interacted with them or discussed them.

it just feels like the tryhardness is coming from a place of town

I don't buy that this earns a tr for the entire game

[Dunnstral]

I can consider it if you explain how it can be them

[Dunnstral]

seeing an opportunity to ride on town cred, prism hammers innocent dwlee ending discussion and preventing any second thought from those involved.

I don't see why Prism needs to hammer Dwlee to end discussion. Or rather, how that benefits them.

then comes a calculated bus on D2, being steadfast on IV without even considering esther (actually you both were like that).

I don't think that this is true

[Dunnstral]

It seems like you have way more reasons to scumread Prism though than you do me, so it's weird that you keep going back to me being more likely. I disagree with things in both 1527 and 1533

[Dunnstral]

What are you referring to from esther?

[Dunnstral]

I don't see that as a weird progression. The last game was linked and they pointed to new evidence they found that suggests something different and changed their stance.

IV was pushing one group but voting in the other.

[Dunnstral]

I didn't take note of that and I don't think anybody pointed that out while they were still alive.

[Dunnstral]

Disagree; Luke had me leaning town

[Dunnstral]

I read 1552 and it was interesting

[Dunnstral]

I'd argue that IV is trying to set up associatives with their flip, and maybe trying to live one more day. But not playing for the 5 person win.

With that in mind, I think post 1244 is meant for associations with Dwlee, or to try to push that elim over. I think that interpreting it as a defense of Save the Dragons is reading into it incorrectly. And in any case, basing votes on how IV played seems folly when:
A) Uou believe they played like a genius
B) You haven't found a post that makes you think that IV is aligned with me (or anyone)

[Dunnstral]

dunnstral - if prism convinces me they're not scum, isn't that a good enough reason to scumread you

The issue is that you were floating a scumread on me before this day phase and so that needs to be properly defined

[Dunnstral]

I dont see the point of continuing either you're scum that I'm not going to get because dunnstral is butthurt I didn't case him or you're town unable to see past I'm doing what I should be doing and that's taking a critical eye to things and trying to suss out the truth

When I'm less pissed off maybe I'll read or maybe I'll just fuckijg vote its hard to care any more

I hardly consider it out of line to ask for you to be able to explain your scumread and/or past scumreads in limlo.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: todoroki

i'll have like, an actual post in a bit. maybe. didnt realize i let this game slip so far, it was a bit of a rapid-fire blur for me when i dipped out but it seems to've calmed down now. prism's posts will be, uh, interesting; i obviously dont (cant!) really agree with some of it, but i appreciate that the posts are closer to my "language" than puppy's (like, less shitposty, more deconstructive-analytical).

Why do you think it is Todoroki over IV?

it's interesting you ask esther why todoraki over IV but not why in the 3 vs in the 6 especially since your notes are against voting in the three.

You are forgetting that I townread Todoroki and scumread IV. With that context it seems a lot less "interesting" that I'd ask this, no?

I wasn't against forming reads in the group of 3.

Todoroki was a bad wagon

i still think this could be scum trying to get town points for being right

I don't think it makes sense to push me for "being right", nor do I think what you quoted here is evidence that I was doing so.

Pav I deadass spent 10 minutes wondering who the fuck no kills

As a fellow townie, I was also wondering who the night kill was

it's interesting that both of you wondered about the missing night kill upon that daystart

"fellow townie" might be TMI on Prism being town and/or trying to buddy up to them

It was a joke.

Spoiler:

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

dunnstral leans scum on IV but doesn't case or vote, trying strongly to vote outside the three and go after Dwlee or myself (both town).

I've made it clear that I think voting in the group of 6 is better. I explained why, too. Heck, I explained why in the last run of this setup where I was town for sure.
Further, this is me giving general thoughts about where I am, I mention 4 different people here, there is no particular reason for me to be focused on IV right now.

What info does that give us Dwlee?

Dwlee you are being really vague about how flipping in the small group helps us

browbeating known town Dwlee

I was trying to get them to give an explanation for their opinion instead of being really vague. Saying it gives info but not being able to tell us what that info is is nonsense. In the end, they were never able to come up with this info.

In regards to Dwlee and Save the dragons: I have especially been not liking Dwlee's posts today, while Dragons is more neutral (though if it's not Dwlee then they look worse today)

again not really giving cases just saying that they don't like the posts but also leaving things open to mislim me later by calling me neutral instead of having a lean on me

so no info on why dwlee or me just shade[/quote]

I explained that I didn't like Dwlee's posts about the groups and how they were being intentionally vague. I also didn't like that they called me scum right after I called them scum, which I point out later with proof.

I don't intend to vote in the small group today,

this changes. dunnstral was trying to get rid of a townie but decided to bus IV later on even though he didn't believe in killing in the 3?[/quote]

What reason do I have to bus instead of relenting to majority opinion and voting mc esther? Again, you are arguing against the evidence here.

This is something that mc esther would not have known when they were making their night kill analysis, if they are town. (And so that is wrong.) It it actually hugely to Dwlee's benefit for Kuriyama to die today.

slight TMI that Esther is wrong/town (i said SLIGHT okay)

but we also know that this isn't true because Dwlee was town. kill could have been made to frame dwlee.

I don't see how this can be interpereted as TMI. I made it clear that I thought IV was the mafia in the grouping, so it makes sense for me to consider Mc Esther as town. Even if the kill was made to frame Dwlee, there is no evidence here to suggest that I would have been the one to make the kill. Why couldn't it have been you or Prism trying to frame Dwlee? This isn't an argument against me specifically.

I know your thing is being wrong this game, but me being scum with IV means neither of us were on the day 1 miselim, and then we killed someone who was planning to push somebody else

this sounds fake

i don't think there was a huge sentiment to push you or IV from anyone else otherwise you would have been pushed D2 so it seems disingenuous to act like kuriyama was the only person who was going to not push you

also browbeating prism to try and make them question their read on you

I guess there wasn't a push on me on day 1. I'm not sure how I'm "browbeating" anything here, I feel an explanation is necessary.

I'm willing to vote in the wrong group now if we're not also voting the wrong person and we get real information. At the start of the day there was no associatives and there was no reason to do so, and also there was a lot more room for doubt in my reads in the small hood.

okay fair, scratch the point about voting in the small hood. in a scum!dunnstral world, this is you preparing to bus tho.

Again, why am I bussing instead of voting for mc esther?

VOTE: InnocentVillager

naked vote with no case.

I talked about it in the last thing you quoted. And I was seeing if Dwlee would actually move onto IV after expressing a scumread there or if they were blowing smoke right when my opinion changed.

Also, is there a reason that posts 513, 561, 652, 1235, 1284, and 1289 coming from you are better than what you've quoted me doing here?

pedit: Dunnstral hi can you please explain your reads on me and esther or quote where you explained them?

Esther looks like town and you don't. They had effort posts that looked good while you didn't have much. Inside the neighborhood I mentioned your progression early on who you were voting and what you were arguing for being weird.

The line is blurring now with your recent posts and I'd really prefer to vote between Dwlee/Save the Dragons (and I have all day), as I believe that one of those two is the mafia in the group of 6

VOTE: Dwlee

sees an opportunity to shade IV but removes his vote[/quote]

This is after IV made an AtE wall. And I had been on IV long enough to prove that I wasn't the reason we couldn't get the wagon through. When I voted IV, there was a majority's worth of people voicing interest in that elimination.

VOTE: innocentvillager

If we don't do this today and both me and prism die, we lose if IV is mafia because everybody else is angling around voting mc esther after this.

buddying prism

I'm trying to save the game, actually. I wasn't wrong. Also, this isn't buddying.

So I voted, and we still couldn't do it. The only reason we got the IV elimination is because Save the dragons made a completely unexpected flip onto IV at deadline.

this is very stoic and doesn't show your thoughts about my vote

That is because I am talking to Dwlee about Dwlee. The second part, that is, if you have an argument for why me being stoic is alignment indicative I'd love to hear it.

Save the Dragons voting for InnocentVillager was not a horrible move like it's being made out to be if their plan is to eliminate both myself and Dwlee.

i still don't really see why i make the bus if i'm scum when i could have done nothing or voted with you for dwlee

you put a lot of backing prism into a corner with a combination of buddying them by town reading them but also browbeating them to keep them in check and off their game. this solves the problem i had earlier as to why dunnstral kills brighter puppy.

But you don't have an explanation why I would be bussing instead of voting for mc esther, do you? Again, I don't see how I'm "browbeating" anyone, nor do I see the buddying.

[Dunnstral]

Your post looks like you decided I was scum first and then went looking in my iso for things that could support that conclusion, rather than a more organic way of doing things. Some of your thoughts ignore context in the thread, some of them don't point to me being scum at all. Also, I feel that you don't really understand how opinions changed from myself and Prism regarding mc esther and IV over the course of day 2.

[Dunnstral]

290 was a post that I found curious in retrospect, less because of Dragons' point but more that I don't think it ever crops back up. The next posts were Todoroki was a bad wagon into IV over esther in 649/651.

Todoroki dies before I do anything with it. If you're asking me why I didn't press mc esther on it after, read 643 and the posts preceding it again.

I've been liking mc esther's posts today and lean towards IV being scum

If you compare mc esther's posts up to this point: I liked mc esther's posts on day 2, and I thought IV's posts from day 1 & 2 were not tonally towny

[Dunnstral]

290 was a post that I found curious in retrospect, less because of Dragons' point but more that I don't think it ever crops back up. The next posts were Todoroki was a bad wagon into IV over esther in 649/651.

Todoroki dies before I do anything with it. If you're asking me why I didn't press mc esther on it after, read 643 and the posts preceding it again.

I get that you were focused in 6, but my interpretation was that you were skeptical of the vote. It makes sense not to linger, but in the end you wound up weighing in on both and coming down on the side of IV-scum instead.

I hadn't posted in a while, when I came back I was focused on other stuff and my question to mc esther wasn't on my mind anymore.

Finally, I am again curious as to what in his final posts moved it to be more blurry as you referenced in 1215. I read that wall and thought it was all over the place, and arguing that him being nervous made him town.

I pointed out in 1067 that I didn't think IV's interactions with Dwlee or Save the Dragons was clearing for them. I said the lines were blurring because IV came back and wrote a huge wall and was also emotional posting: that made it less obvious to me and I say that I am still leaning towards it being IV later.

I've been liking mc esther's posts today and lean towards IV being scum

If you compare mc esther's posts up to this point: I liked mc esther's posts on day 2, and I thought IV's posts from day 1 & 2 were not tonally towny

I saw this in 1215, but my point was that IV high-efforted Day 1 and didn't get the same leeway (Different players? Something bad in his posting? etc.). This looks like you did not like their tone, and I would like elaboration on which posts. I was very impressed Day 1 and thought he meta-matched well.

I am not using meta here. I have a negative impression of posts 58-93, then mech talk which is fine except when they walk it all back at 296 by blaming their vote on the vc color and saying they don't care about the 6/3 groups, 301-303, 537 doesn't really make sense. And then more convincingly their start of day 2 felt off, and as the day went on I became more convinced that it was IV.

[Dunnstral]

im kinda over this game i get it you both aren't scum i don't think that doing the wall posts and getting responses was fruitful for me so if it helped whichever one of you is town, great.

the difference is prism is willing to entertain thoughts i have while dunnstral thinks my prism case is apparently shit so i'm not sure how i'm supposed to go forward with that if dunnstral is town, but scum dunnstral is set on discrediting me from the get go so it makes sense to attack the case. Dunnstral specifically ignored parts of the case to attack specific parts of it so instead of going through and thinking about it, it just looks like he was attacking it. going through dunnstral iso i think there was a lot more that could be construed as having come from scum

"you didn't case me properly" isn't really a town case it's more of a "scum caught for wrong reasons" vibe.

I didn't ignore parts of the case when responding to it.

Your presented evidence does not match there being more in my iso coming from scum - your case on Prism was about the same length.

[Dunnstral]

Oh, you meant the case on Prism.

The parts I ignored were:

1) Somebody who railroaded on todoraki knew it was a miselim

Well, you also voted for Todoraki and it's not clear to me how what Prism did is worse than what you did.

2) Prism didn't die despite being townread

This one is a valid point

[Dunnstral]

You are still explaining why you think it can be Prism, voting you would deny that.