Open 843 - Divide & Conquer - Game Over!

[Save The Dragons]

Hi folks

Will get to this game when I can maybe later today/tomorrow

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Feel better soon, VOTE: todoroki

I give 0 shits which hood we lim from I'm just gonna scumhunt

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Fire town prism town I wanna say IV town

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Kuriyama seems town as well

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prism wants me to post more because i'm posting a story in our PT

so here is me posting more

my reads are kind of just vibe/gut how i feel. fire trying super hard seems pretty town. i like kuriyama's interaction with fire. prism is maybe a loose read but i lean town there. i didn't like todoyaki or whatever their name is with their opening statement and since then they haven't convinced me they are town plus odds are good so

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it is posted!

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oh yeah i think IV is town because he said so

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it just feels like the tryhardness is coming from a place of town

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ii like believed you were town

that's basically it

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i don't really have strong reads one way or another especially in early game so i tend to go based on vibes and what i feel and it usually works out okay for me until i can get something more concrete going

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*strums guitar*

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But why that lead you to Todoroki?

because they're scum

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congrats prism!

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every post by todoroki just feels slimy

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why are you town reading them

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i also think IV is town so that's 50/50

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i don't know what that means

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VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki
VOTE: Todoroki

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i don't remember what you were like as scum lol

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i mean when you play with 100 people on the site you can't keep track of all of them sorry

i dont really care that much for meta anyway. i remember you bussed me pretty hard which helped us win but i'm not sure that applies here. i think you gave thoughts more freely but i wonder if there's pressure from being scum in a hydra that's making you not say what you want

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norwee you're great i want a poem

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you don't get oscars for poetry

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but it was a beautiful poem

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am i dumb

what does me/todoraki mean in this context

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Im willing to search in the big group I'm probably too tunneled at this point

What ever happened to dunnstral

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VOTE: Dunn

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i'm fine hammering the slot but i'll give it a little more time

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imagine if todoroki is scum and i just lolhammer

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VOTE: todoroki

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i just ate a whole bag of flaming cheetos ama

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my burps are fire

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yeah i got baited hard

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in lieu of a present you can have this vote

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thank you

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wtf my story partner

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It's probably dwlee

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i also felt that his concern over e-1 seemed really fake, i didnt mention that second point at the time, mostly because i was sick of being told i was hedging.

i was AT WORK AND STD JUST STRAIGHT KILLED HIM

I'd fuckin do it again

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VOTE: dwlee that howling was pretty realistic

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Remember when dwlee did that thing yesterday?

No you dont because dwlee did nothing yesterday

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lazystd wants to scumread esther for the multiposting which almost seems like desperation but i'll try to be less lazy

to be clear on the hammer it was always something i was going to do because i scumread todoroki and i was waiting for dunnstral to post before doing it but when presented with the scumread i reacted emotionally and hammered right away. it was always happening.

let's not forget that todoroki was scummy as hell. i think it's possible that the wagon was town driven by prism/kuriyama/myself or at least reinforced by belief in the others (at least for me; i thought both kuriyama and prism were town and both of them scumreading todoroki reinforced my belief they would turn up scum

i think it's just dwlee lurking d1 because they were scum and didn't need to do much

i also never make that kill there kuriyama was tring me for writing the story in the PT

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you can argue i did nothing yesterday but i was pushing todoroki in my own way

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which obviously was wrong but i believed in it

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i can't find where kuriyama town read me so maybe i am making it up lol

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I think Dragons is town because he is spending more time writing space romance than actually playing the game.

found it

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cheater

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(that's a joke)

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i didn't think it was a joke

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did you want to present an actual argument or just call me scum

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The simplest scenario, and by far the most likely, is Todoroki putting up stiffer resistance and becoming townread, which would be disastrous and put me on the ropes the rest of the game if not out entirely.

can someone who's not prism weigh in on whether they believe this is true? i think he couldve disengaged with his towncred largely intact if toki became a consensus townread, but my take on this is probably the least informed of everyone here.

not sure i understand fully but i don't think this is true

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if it's not dwlee it's gotta be dunn

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but i'd bet money on dwlee

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Why do you think I'm scum again? Just cause I was absent D1?

i mean that's a big part of it

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In regards to Dwlee and Save the dragons: I have especially been not liking Dwlee's posts today, while Dragons is more neutral

(though if it's not Dwlee then they look worse today)

VOTE: Dwlee

The bolded is weird though

To explain why using STD post

if it's not dwlee it's gotta be dunn

See this, it's like... oh well if it isn't dwlee then I think it's dunn

Dunn's isn't oh if it isn't dwlee it's STD, it's "STD looks worse"

Maybe this is nitpicky but it kind of betrays scum brain. It isn't about truth but appearances

but dunn and I both can't be scum so someone's doing it from a town perspective, maybe both of us

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oh

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why are you so worried about why you are being townread all game

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i think 6 is better. not confident in my read in the other group

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i think 6 is better. not confident in my read in the other group

How are you confident on me when your reason is that I didn't post enough D1?

pretty confident

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town just loses if you miselim within six today, assuming you go on to miselim me next (and even the alternative, further large-group elims, is pretty bad). three-group literally needs to happen today fmpov.

kinda p-edit: obvs i do six at deadline if std/etc. wont flip, but i'll be mad about it lmao. imo stubbornly insisting on six is really suspicious here (though again, very much fmpov), so im maybe kinda back on std over dwlee.

i like how you use "you" for town

like you're not a part of the town

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2 / 5
we mislim in 5
2 / 4
NK
2 / 3
we're in melo but we don't lose

2 / 5
we mislim in the 2
1 / 5
NK
1 / 4
Kill the 1
4
NK
3

hmm.

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2 / 5
we lim correctly in the 5
2 / 4
NK
2 / 3
correct lim = W
mislim
1 / 3
NK
1 / 2
W

so getting right in the 6 is an auto win

2 / 5
we lim correctly in the 2
1 / 5
NK
5
correct lim = W
mislim
4
NK
3
correct lim = W
mislim = L

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looks like we have a target

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i didn't do it i'm sad the story's over

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iv any thoughts on the game besides people voting you

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i don't know that scum!esther hammers town!dwlee there especially when complaining about my hammer yesterday, and scum!esther certainly doesn't hammer scum!dwlee there

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i don't think much has changed from my perspective tbh

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if we're not going in the 6 for the auto win

i'm trying to take a look at IV vs esther

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im leaning towards esther being the scumbutt tbh

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i think it could be dunnstral in the 6 i think dwlee is more likely

as far as esther goes it just has to do with their posting vs. IV's posting, IV's seems more genuine and seems to come from a town position. i don't like the way esther just multiposts it seems to be efforting in an attempt to look townie. Yeah I know that IV's big wall can be construed as that as well and i'm wrestling with that too so i'm not sold on esther i just think it more likely.

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i don't know if i can meta iv very well tbh

i don't know if i can tell the difference

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UNVOTE:

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I dunno about dunn but I cant wait for him to not post for 2 days again

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I'm getting paranoid

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I'm not confident we are going to hit the right person in the big group

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okay i'll just say it

my paranoia read is prism/esther

like what if the todoroki push was intentionally designed to mislim them utilizing prism's clout. what if the esther vote/suspicion was distancing. does anyone else think there's even a slight chance that prism could be scum?

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can you tell me why not

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VOTE: Dwlee

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are you actually going to post analysis

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UNVOTE: go right ahead

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Esther/dunn?

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VOTE: mc esther

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im willing to do dunnstral or esther

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VOTE: Dunnstral

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dunnstral's done nothing all game

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i've done more than he has

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Save the Dragons looks really bad right now.

omgus

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whatever

VOTE: Innocentvillager

i hope i'm wrong but if i'm not i'm gonna be pisssssssssssssssed

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6 hours left im willing to compromise because i'm not 100% sure who's the scum between you

if people are so damn confident IV is scum then let's see it

PEDIT: @Esther

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i like how about halfway through this video there's a hidden message

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let's just play in our PT to fuck with people

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it's probably just dwlee here?

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i dunno

dunn voted IV yesterday i'm not sure if dunn would bus as early as he voted IV

it's possible though

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or we could lim both you and dunn and probably win

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dunn feels more town than you but i've been really wrong most of this game so i wanna hear some other opinions

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i also said i dunno and that limming both of you should win us the game

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{dwlee, fire, prism}
{std, kuriyama?}
{todoroki}
{rest}

Why is dwlee so high and dunnstral so low I wonder

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i think Dwlee -> Dunn wins the game

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might be okay with that

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sorry i've been super lazy let me take a harder look at this game in a bit

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iv's interactions with both dwlee and dunnstral are weird

If I don't correctly read IV this game I should probably end up BoP'd

VOTE: dwlee99

idk why is that even a thing you say?:

at some point IV says dwlee is town but there's not really a reason given for the shift

VOTE: dunnstral

there's not really a reason given why he votes dunnstral

if we can lock one of dunn/std/dwlee as town.
Which I am nearing the idea that Dwlee lock town. Then maybe we can lim in the 3?

Why is Dwlee lock again..?

weird for him to be sus of his town read, i guess it evaporates:

{puppy} - approaching obvtown tonally/energy and doesn't endgame anyway. kill with fire before elo but there's no value added for me here saying this.
{prism} - Prism's confident bloodthirst for Todoroki yesterday was weird and putting him back at E1 was bad too. Yes it wasn't actually E1 but he thought it was functionally. im not gonna pretend to know prism meta inside and out but meta-wise everything else the slot has done seems tonally townie though. im not as confident here as puppy and it feels more likely he was just tunneled on todo.
{dwlee} - still don't think scum!dwlee BoPs themselves early on me for no reason but i have zero opinion on anything else they've done
{dunnstral, std} - i guess it's in this tier? neither player has done much but STD went for the kill immediately when we had plenty of time left but I almost don't think scum do nothing all game and then quickhammer for lols. It's possible though. Dunnstral has done nothing all game but shade me once which is just null for him - ive seen him do this as town and scum too.

it's almost like he forgot he was heavily reading dwlee as town

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my content is as hedgy as my non-content

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VOTE: Dwlee

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if the game continues everyone should probably re-evaluate everyone else

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pretty sure i'm going to if i'm alive tomorrow

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i think it's weird that IV put you in his top town tier and then conveniently forgot about it the next day

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this almost sounds like caught for the wrong reasons

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you're fine dwlee

but i definitely don't believe twilight revelations so i'm crossing my fingers here

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hey fuck nobody vote please

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i'm so paranoid it's just prism

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i need to think about this but can't do it now

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i don't think we would have ever deadlocked i mean unless i was scum and decided not to switch to IV

all three of us voted IV he was definitely designed to be bussed and was unlikely to make it to day 3 again unless i was scum and decided not to switch so one of you bussed him and probably came in with that intention

remind me of blitzing dunnstral when was that

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i can hear the dead thread screaming at me

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i guess it's possible whoever is scum could have switched to esther and would have towards the end but i still don't think we deadlock

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not sure that's clearing either

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Why does Save The Dragons scumread me?

Are you asking me or rhetorically asking prism

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Like I really dont understand why you would post that

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Save the Dragons voting for InnocentVillager was not a horrible move like it's being made out to be if their plan is to eliminate both myself and Dwlee.

How could I possibly have known this would work especially with suspicion on me

Why wouldn't I just keep pushing esther and try to wait out the deadline

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Why does Save The Dragons scumread me?

Are you asking me or rhetorically asking prism

I permit you to answer

If you think I'm scum what does it matter

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I don't think I've ever seen town in limlo reply "why does it matter?" when asked about their scumread on another living player in limlo. Especially when they are entertaining doubts about the third player in limlo. And I don't believe that it can come from town, either

this is posturing

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Remember when dwlee did that thing yesterday?

No you dont because dwlee did nothing yesterday

you can argue i did nothing yesterday but i was pushing todoroki in my own way

dunnstral's done nothing all game

that sure is the difference between the three plays

you and dwlee did fuck all D1 while i was pushing todoraki because i thought they were scum

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Save the Dragons also needs to explain how they ruled out Brighter Puppy, because they barely interacted with them or discussed them.

it just feels like the tryhardness is coming from a place of town

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prism i think it's probably just dunnstral here i just am a paranoid person and want to be right if it happens to be you

but i'll take a look and see what i think

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i don't want to be a hero i don't really enjoy that role in elo because i don't like to be wrong

my paranoia stems from you being wrong and then using ATE which i have been fooled by recently so i'm wary of that kind of behavior. it could be genuine even as scum but it makes me worry.

i don't quite play like you so my answer isn't going to be a huge analysis of your posts to determine where i finally land, it's going to probably be a vibe check of how i feel between you, dunnstral, and interactions with IV.

which i knew i wouldn't be able to get to until this morning so saying i did nothing when i entered is a little meh

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im in a meeting hold your horses

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1495 says "I don't think it takes particularly long" i.e. hurry up

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honestly i'm probably just going to vote dunnstral and concede prism played a great scum game if i'm wrong and give myself a pat on the back for the paranoia

even things like "ELMERS TAKE THE WHEEL" is ATE talking about how you've been wrong is ATE, etc. i consider any emotional take as potential ATE, so i'm not trying to be heartless, just thorough

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i didn't say i'm dropping i'm just guessing what's going to happen

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like looking over IV i don't think you are aligned

it's hard to say dunnstral is, but it could just be distancing between the two of them

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i feel like every time i say something your response is slightly askew

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dunnstral and iv certainly aren't protecting each other they kept voting each other hence distancing. it's hard to say dunnstral is aligned with IV because if they're scum dunnstral was careful about giving reads and IV included everyone in his "it's not me with X" post.

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i've said what's askew

i think we're just not connecting with each other it happens

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i didn't plan on coming prepared, i was wishing you would die so i could vote Dunnstral happily but you survived but i didn't want to say that out loud in the thread just in case dunnstral was scum and decided to keep you alive due to my paranoia

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if i had just voted dunnstral at start of day and kept my dumb muzzle shut what would you have done

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??

you don't think it's prism but i'm supposed to think it's prism?

or do you want me to case you

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it shouldn't be that hard to grasp that i'm leaning dunnstral but have fear of prism

if i were scum i would have been like "obv dunnstralscum is obv even Brighter Puppy said so even Prism said so everyone says so must be true" i surely wouldn't be playing pussyfoot with both of you

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because i scumread you all game

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i don't think you've done much all game, kinda lurky. you tmi'd todoraki when todoraki died in a smug way. you've said like nothing about IV but "scumread" him. you pushed dwlee and myself 1-dimensionally and said things like "STD looks bad" when I voted for you of all things

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them beyond felt good

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do you think it could be prism

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i think someone who railroaded on todoraki could have known it was a mislim and kept it going with a pedantic argument especially with people sheeping them

then comes a calculated bus on D2, being steadfast on IV without even considering esther (actually you both were like that).

seeing an opportunity to ride on town cred, prism hammers innocent dwlee ending discussion and preventing any second thought from those involved.

finally prism, despite being so town read, doesn't die. does things in the PT thread to make brighter puppy look more town so it makes sense for them to be the kill instead despite their dissonance.

i want to go deeper but i haven't done that quite yet. the point is i can see a web of red strings on a billboard with prism's name on an index card circled in sharpie with ???? after it.

because despite what you've said it just seems more likely it's you

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if i were scum i would have been like "obv

dunnstralscum is obv even Brighter Puppy said so

even Prism said so everyone says so must be true"

finally prism, despite being so town read, doesn't die. does things in the PT thread to make brighter puppy look more town so it makes sense for them to be the kill instead

despite their dissonance.

?

This seems to imply you are aware that Brighter was split on the final scum rather than united on Dunnstral.

one of the heads said so

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It seems like you have way more reasons to scumread Prism though than you do me

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Esther looks like town and you don't. They had effort posts that looked good while you didn't have much. Inside the neighborhood I mentioned your progression early on who you were voting and what you were arguing for being weird.

you're right how silly of me there's a complete read scum couldn't have served this up

how come IV's progression is weird but esther's "i wanna vote from the smaller pool" "vote: STD" is not weird (or if it is why did you only mention IV)

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i was thinking about the kill, in the pt thread brighter was of two minds and could have been swayed one way or another but prism suggested dunnstral. how does scum!dunnstral know prism and i don't just dunk on him right away when he could have made a case to brighter

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i think we eliminate from the smaller pool first? higher accuracy means we can build associations with fewer miselims, yeah?

VOTE: todokori

my main concern right now is that 1/6 is a ridiculously low hit rate, and the associative advantages being listed dont actually matter unless we stick a wagon on scum. we dont know who's unwilling to bus unless we wagon scum d1 -- so in practice, this is just the d1 autowin scenario (it's only different if someone's heavily wagonned d1 but doesnt flip until later, and their refusing-to-bus buddy hasnt been eliminated in the interim).

a lot of the setup spec in the first game is pretty weird (not in that any of it's bad, just in that the two major arguments dont really engage with each other very much); but imo the key point is bingle's comment, "If we lim in the small pool we NEVER have conftown in 5p."

UNVOTE:
VOTE: save the dragons

also i think dunn's town

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It's not Puppies or Faker

but does IV forget who his scumparter is in this game?

[Pavowski]

12 hrs later

UNVOTE:
VOTE: todoroki

Quote tag fixed (vote tag was playing havoc) -Pav

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doesn't that seem

weird

to you

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prism - do you think dunnstral actually analyzed the proto-case i had against you

dunnstral - if prism convinces me they're not scum, isn't that a good enough reason to scumread you

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Fmpov iv was hard bussed by his partner so saying it's not true isn't really a valid response. As far as not needing to end discussion I disagree too, town could have had second thoughts about dwlee or brighter puppy could have spoken out against dwlee so I dont see that point really being valid either

So why in fucks name do you

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We have time I will do my due dilligence

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If you want to act like I wasn't supposed to play mafia here and try and sus you both out then fine I can just vote and go away if that's what you want

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I dont see the point of continuing either you're scum that I'm not going to get because dunnstral is butthurt I didn't case him or you're town unable to see past I'm doing what I should be doing and that's taking a critical eye to things and trying to suss out the truth

When I'm less pissed off maybe I'll read or maybe I'll just fuckijg vote its hard to care any more

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UNVOTE:
VOTE: todoroki

i'll have like, an actual post in a bit. maybe. didnt realize i let this game slip so far, it was a bit of a rapid-fire blur for me when i dipped out but it seems to've calmed down now. prism's posts will be, uh, interesting; i obviously dont (cant!) really agree with some of it, but i appreciate that the posts are closer to my "language" than puppy's (like, less shitposty, more deconstructive-analytical).

Why do you think it is Todoroki over IV?

it's interesting you ask esther why todoraki over IV but not why in the 3 vs in the 6 especially since your notes are against voting in the three.

Todoroki was a bad wagon

i still think this could be scum trying to get town points for being right

Pav I deadass spent 10 minutes wondering who the fuck no kills

As a fellow townie, I was also wondering who the night kill was

it's interesting that both of you wondered about the missing night kill upon that daystart

"fellow townie" might be TMI on Prism being town and/or trying to buddy up to them

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

dunnstral leans scum on IV but doesn't case or vote, trying strongly to vote outside the three and go after Dwlee or myself (both town).

What info does that give us Dwlee?

Dwlee you are being really vague about how flipping in the small group helps us

browbeating known town Dwlee

In regards to Dwlee and Save the dragons: I have especially been not liking Dwlee's posts today, while Dragons is more neutral (though if it's not Dwlee then they look worse today)

again not really giving cases just saying that they don't like the posts but also leaving things open to mislim me later by calling me neutral instead of having a lean on me

so no info on why dwlee or me just shade

I don't intend to vote in the small group today,

this changes. dunnstral was trying to get rid of a townie but decided to bus IV later on even though he didn't believe in killing in the 3?

This is something that mc esther would not have known when they were making their night kill analysis, if they are town. (And so that is wrong.) It it actually hugely to Dwlee's benefit for Kuriyama to die today.

slight TMI that Esther is wrong/town (i said SLIGHT okay)

but we also know that this isn't true because Dwlee was town. kill could have been made to frame dwlee.

I know your thing is being wrong this game, but me being scum with IV means neither of us were on the day 1 miselim, and then we killed someone who was planning to push somebody else

this sounds fake

i don't think there was a huge sentiment to push you or IV from anyone else otherwise you would have been pushed D2 so it seems disingenuous to act like kuriyama was the only person who was going to not push you

also browbeating prism to try and make them question their read on you

I'm willing to vote in the wrong group now if we're not also voting the wrong person and we get real information. At the start of the day there was no associatives and there was no reason to do so, and also there was a lot more room for doubt in my reads in the small hood.

okay fair, scratch the point about voting in the small hood. in a scum!dunnstral world, this is you preparing to bus tho.

VOTE: InnocentVillager

naked vote with no case.

pedit: Dunnstral hi can you please explain your reads on me and esther or quote where you explained them?

Esther looks like town and you don't. They had effort posts that looked good while you didn't have much. Inside the neighborhood I mentioned your progression early on who you were voting and what you were arguing for being weird.

The line is blurring now with your recent posts and I'd really prefer to vote between Dwlee/Save the Dragons (and I have all day), as I believe that one of those two is the mafia in the group of 6

VOTE: Dwlee

sees an opportunity to shade IV but removes his vote

VOTE: innocentvillager

If we don't do this today and both me and prism die, we lose if IV is mafia because everybody else is angling around voting mc esther after this.

buddying prism

So I voted, and we still couldn't do it. The only reason we got the IV elimination is because Save the dragons made a completely unexpected flip onto IV at deadline.

this is very stoic and doesn't show your thoughts about my vote

You jumped to defending yourself, but that isn't what we were talking about.

1. You accused me of sitting on IV while hoping the wagon would move.
2. I pointed out that there was enough in-thread interest to have eliminated IV, and that you are the reason that it didn't happen
3. You start quoting where you votes for esther instead. But are you saying that was part of my "plan", or did you shift focus?

reading over it i don't disagree with your case on dwlee

Save the Dragons voting for InnocentVillager was not a horrible move like it's being made out to be if their plan is to eliminate both myself and Dwlee.

i still don't really see why i make the bus if i'm scum when i could have done nothing or voted with you for dwlee

you put a lot of backing prism into a corner with a combination of buddying them by town reading them but also browbeating them to keep them in check and off their game. this solves the problem i had earlier as to why dunnstral kills brighter puppy.

[Save The Dragons]

This is absolutely the fastest I have ever wanted to selfvote and get out of a game. Record time.

ate i could see it go either way

Focusing on the three, my current vote is esther. IV I feel I now have some idea how to read and think posts like 170 are very difficult for him to fake. 9:12 he really struggled to give reads like this off the cuff without making them overly convoluted, and the ones that did come were with a high degree of intentionality and thought. Wouldn't shock me if he's scum but yeah.

interesting how this post sets up not to bus on day 1 but leaves the door open to go after IV later

VOTE: Todoroki

I really do not like what Esther has given either, I don't know if she is just annoyed because I've never pushed her before or what, but I feel confident that 391 is a borderline scumclaim.

lacks explanation

Do you think me being wrong is scum indicative or motivated? If not, go find scum in the 3 or 6.

reads as TMI almost (being wrong) but i'm having trouble exactly discerning what prism is supposed to be wrong about.

It's literally you saying you wouldn't put yourself in the small hood without 4 of 6 as scum. There is blatant scum motivation unless you think you will specifically be called out for it.

I take it back, save the link, I am flipping you, this is absurd and you are not this dense.

i'm missing the argument here

As always, it is possible I am wrong but I would be very surprised if I were.

hate this line, looks a little fake, adds to this "wrong townie" persona

there's a distinct focus on todoraki and a lack of anything on the other two members of the smaller group towards the end of day 1. Even when unvoting prism doesn't take time to consider the other possibilities

If you're busy, okay, but I have given more than enough and from my perspective you're either scum flopping in preparation for tomorrow or are just getting in the way for zero reason.

why would he get in the way for zero reason as town? it almost seems like you're calling him out here as scum because you know it

I love the idea of Kuriyama just watching me be aggressively wrong and sipping tea while watching me piledrive the game into the ground.

i dunno if it's self doubt (i've got it in spades) but it almost seems like sometimes you know you're going to be wrong and you're laying the groundwork for it

I can't wait to policy Dunnstral tomorrow and watch him flip green

TMI?

(It would also be Dragons)

i dunno if you posted much about me before this, testing the waters? certainly not the easiest target but not a hard one

I think 651 is intellectually dishonest but w/e I'll come back another time

the time is now!

1. The scum wagon on Todoroki was overwhelmingly beneficial to mafia. The wagon was mafia driven, and more specifically the push was likely a strategic calculation by Prism.

I think this benefits greatly from the power of hindsight and retrospective fitting. I can wax poetic about my scum strategy and meta, but the short of it is this: This depends on me knowing in advance that I would get universally townread for a Todoroki push, or at least not widely scumread. This is not a feasible strategic gameplan for me, who adamantly refuses to entertain even the idea of losing as scum. I am extremely risk averse as scum and do not believe in betting the games on Day 1 gambits. It is very easy to look back and say "Well, nothing went wrong in Prism's push on Todoroki", but a million things could have gone wrong-many of them completely out of my control.

The simplest scenario, and by far the most likely, is Todoroki putting up stiffer resistance and becoming townread, which would be disastrous and put me on the ropes the rest of the game if not out entirely.

I am shocked that Brighter Puppy still says I even have "the most influence" because I mauled any reasonable ability to impose my reads on others with a sledgehammer on Day 1. In contrast, I am very confident in my ability to solo carry so long as there are no PRs or mechanical confirmation of me.

fair point (but also wifom)

lmao maybe i should consider the all-town wagon theory, because at this point i feel more like im being encouraged to spam the thread repeating the same "yes, i did explicitly say im asking from my perspective" points ad nauseum than i am getting a real answer to a question whose basic premises i think ive outlined pretty explicitly.

i think i am town.
i think maf are on the wagon.
the above two makes you and dunn town.
scum!dwlee, knowing my alignment and reasonably assuming i believe maf to be on the wagon, would have the ability to determine this for themself.
scum!dwlee is therefore advocating for clearing puppy and dunn in advocating for a three-group flip day three.
is it more likely that scum!dwlee simply hadnt thought this through, or doesnt care about clearing a player, than that prism is mafia?

again, for i think the eightieth time at this point, from my perspective?

I think this is batshit insane FWIW

1. The entire chain of clearing based off of your flip is ???. Dunnstral literally showed up right after the wagon was hammered, and IV was in no danger. Brighter was committed to voting in 6 and at no point was IV in any danger. This is significantly more persuasive reversed to be about your slot being scum, which was actually a viable wagon.
2. dwlee assuming first that you will come to the two clear conclusion is an even bigger ?????? and second worried that town will buy it,

based off of your play Day 1

, is batshit crazy.
3. dwlee has a 50%+ chance of losing on the spot if we voted in 6 today and knows that from 6hood

i think it's strange this doesn't come with a scumread or a vote, somehow despite this you esther town

Dunnstral, how worried are you about deadlocking?

Specifically, are you aware it is impossible to actually get IV voted out without a drastic shift in the landscape?

don't bother voting IV, it's impossible

The last few pages have sold me on Esther being town. I will want to meta but the last two pages are very, very sharp if she is scum.

not really a strong explanation as to why, could have decided to bus. but no vote on IV or any movement against him yet despite being sure esther is town

If people prefer Dwlee instead I can go there but I am not voting Dunnstral today. If he's been doing this on purpose it's fair game and about time I got a taste of my own medicine but our reads match and there's no reason for him to accommodate going in 3 today if he's scum with esther. Dwlee was set to get flipped.

leaves the door open to go for dwlee instead of IV

I get that "clean"/"sharp" are very vague descriptors. I know there are 2/3 times it has happened, but the most vivid wasHectic in Undertale 2.0, and while I don't think you're concerned about my alignment I want to make it clear that I'm not just pulling random bullshit out of thin air on you. It's not making any "mistakes" day in and day out all week long.

is very self aware if scum, kind of a defensive post

sorry i'm kind of petering out here it's a slog

votes on dwlee/dunnstral could be a parachute trying to escape the bus, prism had to hammer to make it look believable that IV was their target all along

hammer on dwlee is interesting it is the YOLO as described here:

Half of me wants to YOLO but the other half of me says finish strong and do it right since this'll be my last game for awhile.

Still think Dwlee. Busy with several towngames previously, yesterday seemed to just be stalling out hoping town would randomly flip around. Flips on IV read were very random and not elaborated on.

does give reasoning for known town dwlee but i guess i'm confused what the point of the flip is if dwlee is scum with IV

[Save The Dragons]

my goal is to read/analyze the rebuttals later today. i think i know what i want to do but i want to see if that colors my opinion

[Save The Dragons]

i want to look over IV's iso and see if i find anything interacty i'm more likely to do that than towncase both of you tbh but if i have time i can take a look

[Save The Dragons]

im kinda over this game i get it you both aren't scum i don't think that doing the wall posts and getting responses was fruitful for me so if it helped whichever one of you is town, great.

the difference is prism is willing to entertain thoughts i have while dunnstral thinks my prism case is apparently shit so i'm not sure how i'm supposed to go forward with that if dunnstral is town, but scum dunnstral is set on discrediting me from the get go so it makes sense to attack the case. Dunnstral specifically ignored parts of the case to attack specific parts of it so instead of going through and thinking about it, it just looks like he was attacking it. going through dunnstral iso i think there was a lot more that could be construed as having come from scum

[Save The Dragons]

"you didn't case me properly" isn't really a town case it's more of a "scum caught for wrong reasons" vibe.

[Save The Dragons]

i don't think i said dunn treated me unfairly

[Save The Dragons]

i think we just have different playstyles and i think that's okay

[Save The Dragons]

the problem is both of you argued that you aren't scum so what exactly am i taking away from the argument

i still find the case on both of you compelling regardless of how fancy your words are or how much either of you deny what i said

[Save The Dragons]

i mean i could go back and be like "i agree with you here you convinced me of X" but i'd still be like "but i don't agree with you here, you haven't convinced me of Y" and we could get in an endless loop of wall posting

i'm not saying the arguments weren't convincing at all or that i was incorrect in my assertions. i painted two pictures and one is completely wrong obviously

[Save The Dragons]

if prism you are town then i'm confused why me efforting is such a bad thing in your eyes or at least not helping you see me as town when most of what dunnstral's done today is shit on my cases and buddy you some more

paranoid me which i'm trying to shove back into a box says you're doing it to help mislim me today

[Save The Dragons]

the efforting i am referring to is my posts all day, not just the walls on the previous page

[Save The Dragons]

[Save The Dragons]

wait i think my point is the exact opposite of that lol

whatever

let me pull up where i didn't see a response

[Save The Dragons]

i think someone who railroaded on todoraki could have known it was a mislim and kept it going with a pedantic argument especially with people sheeping them

then comes a calculated bus on D2, being steadfast on IV without even considering esther (actually you both were like that).

seeing an opportunity to ride on town cred, prism hammers innocent dwlee ending discussion and preventing any second thought from those involved.

finally prism, despite being so town read, doesn't die. does things in the PT thread to make brighter puppy look more town so it makes sense for them to be the kill instead despite their dissonance.

i want to go deeper but i haven't done that quite yet. the point is i can see a web of red strings on a billboard with prism's name on an index card circled in sharpie with ???? after it.

because despite what you've said it just seems more likely it's you

seeing an opportunity to ride on town cred, prism hammers innocent dwlee ending discussion and preventing any second thought from those involved.

I don't see why Prism needs to hammer Dwlee to end discussion. Or rather, how that benefits them.

then comes a calculated bus on D2, being steadfast on IV without even considering esther (actually you both were like that).

I don't think that this is true

[Save The Dragons]

why haven't you voted me yet

[Save The Dragons]

we'll see

[Save The Dragons]

im about halfway through but after that shitty post by you i'm almost content letting you lose if your town

[Save The Dragons]

stop whining that i'm not playing how you want me to play and accept that we're different here

[Save The Dragons]

oh cool prism is town

it's impossible to tell what this is referring to :S

VOTE: dunnstral

votes dunnstral shortly after this post

UNVOTE:
VOTE: todoroki

i'll have like, an actual post in a bit. maybe. didnt realize i let this game slip so far, it was a bit of a rapid-fire blur for me when i dipped out but it seems to've calmed down now. prism's posts will be, uh, interesting; i obviously dont (cant!) really agree with some of it, but i appreciate that the posts are closer to my "language" than puppy's (like, less shitposty, more deconstructive-analytical).

Why do you think it is Todoroki over IV?

it actually looks more like a reflex to being scumread by a town dunnstral than a distancing but it could be either

I realized something horrible while out running.

It's not just that I'm waiting for notscience to post so I can sort him, or that the game would be better with full participation

I

need

notscience. I need him to show up, to say something I disagree with, to condescend to him in my corrections, to treat him like an errant teenager even though he is the same age.

Without all of it I am empty, aimless, a hollow shell devoid of purpose.

what's your dynamic with NS/why do you need him here to sort him in particular?

i think scum!IV asks this to look busy

{

dwlee

,

fire

,

prism

}
{std,

kuriyama

?}
{

todoroki

}
{

rest

}

i'm still torn whether he elevates his partner to the top or puts his partner down on the bottom

oh wow wait rest is literally just dunnstral and esther, i forget how small these games are

huh

well ive solved the game :3

this looks like bus but he was probably always getting bussed d2 so maybe it's not. god i'm so hedgy.

also idgaf about the group of 6/3 thing rly rn, i loosely prefer g3 because im in it but i don't want to get caught up in it anymore

VOTE: dunnstral

oh wow wait rest is literally just dunnstral and esther, i forget how small these games are

huh

well ive solved the game :3

so, what's the deal here? because, like, im the player in the 3-group and the player with a wagon on me, so if you believe me/dunn is the most likely solve, arent i the vote? i guess you could be going for the autowin if youre not so sure on todoroki vs. me, but

i get that killing the scum in the group of 6 is autowin but i feel it's just so unlikely

idk lol

ok boss VOTE: mc Esther

gets off of dunnstral

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

why?

this looks like a genuine question

gth here's where im at

{

puppy

} - approaching obvtown tonally/energy and doesn't endgame anyway. kill with fire before elo but there's no value added for me here saying this.
{

prism

} - Prism's confident bloodthirst for Todoroki yesterday was weird and putting him back at E1 was bad too. Yes it wasn't actually E1 but he thought it was functionally. im not gonna pretend to know prism meta inside and out but meta-wise everything else the slot has done seems tonally townie though. im not as confident here as puppy and it feels more likely he was just tunneled on todo.
{

dwlee

} - still don't think scum!dwlee BoPs themselves early on me for no reason but i have zero opinion on anything else they've done
{

dunnstral

, std} - i guess it's in this tier? neither player has done much but STD went for the kill immediately when we had plenty of time left but I almost don't think scum do nothing all game and then quickhammer for lols. It's possible though. Dunnstral has done nothing all game but shade me once which is just null for him - ive seen him do this as town and scum too.

shades prism but puts prism at the top, tries to lead people to the dunnstral/std tier. but again is the plan always for IV to die today? so where does he put his partner? i'd probably say close to the middle to try to hide them

uh lol it's fine, i do that too

your posting confused me a lot for a second but whatever

obviously i dont have much on innocentvillager and dont really expect to survive the day. imma iso him later (phoneposting at a friend's rn), i mentioned my main questionmark over him yesterday (although tbh on reflection im not actually sure how much i stand by it, again, gonna need a reread). i also felt that his concern over e-1 seemed really fake, i didnt mention that second point at the time, mostly because i was sick of being told i was hedging.

VOTE: innocentvillager

Still not sure I buy the point. Town absolutely starts from a place of demoralization only to catch inspired fire.

are you saying im scum here...?

for your point like maybe? i mean fmpov that's just not what happened lol but idk i don't think it happens that drastically and quickly. even objectively i would just say more likely it's some sort of subconscious AtE to curry favor but wtf do i know. i just came in ready to fight from the get go and my opponent starts out by basically admitting defeat before spamming 3 pages so the approach just doesn't make sense to me.

this looks like a genuine defense to me so prism could have started the bus here or is just correct

You have a habit of using two hyphens instead of one.

The other player who does this, and has failed to change it across alts previously, is Morning Tweet.

i literally /inned for morning tweet's game in theme queue

prism is town for completely botching esther's identity, lmao

this is a weird thing to say about your scum partner

where is dunnstral?? i want to see what he has to say about me being the scum here.

could be distancing

prism is obvtown and anyone who thinks he’s scum at this point is just bad

this looks more like scum TMI than calling out a partner

gonna stop here for now at first i kinda leaned towards prism being the partner but i think later interactions point more to dunnstral.

[Save The Dragons]

i'm done with this game

VOTE: Dunnstral

it's dunnstral and was probably always going to be dunnstral but i wanted to entertain the possibility it wasn't because i wanted to do my due diligence as town

it's amazing that you can post walls and read ISOs in ten fucking seconds but i can't it takes me an hour or so, so sometimes i'm going to post elsewhere because i have only 5 minutes

congrats prism i guess you win either way unless you do something stupid like vote me

maybe chill next time

[Save The Dragons]

yeah i'm not going to feel bad about this

[Save The Dragons]

gg thanks pav for the mod thanks kuriyama for the story