Mini 2261: Grand Idea: Deflated Bubble [Game Over]

[Radical Rat]

I SWEAR IF YOU REMOVE MY POST RESTRICTION WHICH WILL BE THE ONLY FUN I GET OUT OF THIS GAME

You can always have Caps Lock on anyway!

[Radical Rat]

So...

I'm in a neighborhood with Ircher, Radical Rat, and STD.

Ircher is role fishing with threats.

VOTE: Ircher

/confirm
But I also don't think Ircher is scum for it. I was also considering asking for a neighborhood massclaim

[Radical Rat]

jesters dont

Wouldn't it depend on which specific Jester role got rolled?

[Radical Rat]

I have no idea what the VC is, is it safe to pile on Zookeeper?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Zookeeper
E-2

[Radical Rat]

It's like, you rushed to out the hood. congrats! now what? now, no one probably really even wants to talk there, knowing someone will just say stuff here, and nothing good is really happening here.. so you've effectively just killed a method of getting reads. hoods tend to be a lot more serious than the thread itself.. I don't think House outed it from a town mindset
VOTE: House

Why does scum out the hood though? They can just as easily pull the I Don't Trust It thing in private, and out it in the scum thread for their buddies. Outing it publicly is just going to alert any OTHER potential scumteams, and might end up drawing a shot for it.

[Radical Rat]

Honestly, House exploding PROBABLY had nothing to do with Andante.

See, Ircher claimed his role, but that role doesn't exist in the Grand Idea thread. A role that DOES exist was "The Color Blue" which has a blue-flavored neighborizing component and is also an unjester that grants autowin to everyone sharing a neighborhood with them, which was floated as a possibility.

House assumed this was Ircher's true role, and offered to kill Ircher tonight and we all win, using his explosion as a threat should any of us reveal his scumclaim.

But then Ircher came on and insisted this was Not the case, and so House went and exploded him before he could get eliminated properly.

[Radical Rat]

It was good enough before the explosion, it's good enough now
VOTE: Zookeeper

[Radical Rat]

I had a reason for Zookeeper, but honestly I don't remember what it was. I could do Andante as well, but I'm fairly comfortable on Korina and StD being Town.

[Radical Rat]

Andante did not bluff about the vig shot. I saved Flea. StD and Flea faerself can both confirm this.

[Radical Rat]

Well. StD can confirm that I said I was going to. Flea can confirm it actually happened.

[Radical Rat]

Radical, if we discussed I was shooting Flea in that discussion thread. Why would you go save Flea? I asked if there was ANY opposition

The opposition isn't necessarily to shooting Flea, so much as it is me not trusting you entirely. I was going to protect Korina at first, but changed to Flea as you did.

I HAVE A QUESTION RAT - WHY SAVE FLEA. WHAT HAS FLEA DONE THAT MAKES YOU THINK FLEA IS TOWN?

I don't have a read on Flea, but I do think Andante is sketchy, and wanted to deny the kill.

[Radical Rat]

got no role results like I should've so I'm thinking more roleblock than Radical saving

If you were roleblocked, Flea would be dead.

[Radical Rat]

Okay so something strange has happened IF you're telling the truth.

However, when Flea gets here fae can give us a definitive answer. My role will have been confirmed to faer.

[Radical Rat]

Since there's no point hiding it anymore, I am a Town Neighbor Announcing CPR Doctor.

This is why Flea would be dead if Andante were roleblocked. My thinking was if Andante is Town, not getting to murder someone isn't a huge loss, if she's scum using vig claim to mask the nightkill, or just a scum vig, scum gets denied a kill, if she's faking the ability to kill, or lying about her target, Flea dies and we ask some very uncomfortable questions.

[Radical Rat]

So either we were BOTH roleblocked, which Flea can confirm whether my action went through, or one of us is lying. Except my claim can be backed up by four different people, though I don't expect House to actually help here, being scum and all, while Andante's has only her word.

[Radical Rat]

YOU CLAIMING IT IN A HOOD DOES NOT MEAN IT’S TRUTHFUL

No, but I claimed before I knew any of this would happen, which lends it credence. Then Flea can confirm it as well, independent of the hood.

[Radical Rat]

Town Announcing CPR Doctor

Each night, you may protect a player from kills. If the targeted player was not targeted by any kill actions, you will instead attempt to kill that player. You will inform the targeted player that they were targeted by a CPR Doctor.

[Radical Rat]

This is quoting the Grand Idea thread, which is public information, and NOT my actual role PM.

[Radical Rat]

So that means we were both roleblocked, which is very interesting

[Radical Rat]

Or Flea was JKed or something

[Radical Rat]

Why on Earth would I jump through all these hoops instead of just claiming JK in that case?

[Radical Rat]

Fakeclaiming a provable role doesn't help if I can't actually prove it, or convincingly fake proving it

[Radical Rat]

But now I'm upset because apparently I didn't even have to claim publicly yet, and I'm probably dead tonight as a result.

[Radical Rat]

So either we were BOTH roleblocked, which Flea can confirm whether my action went through, or one of us is lying. Except my claim can be backed up by four different people, though I don't expect House to actually help here, being scum and all, while Andante's has only her word.

I want this elaborating on.

House, StD, and Ircher all saw me claim in our neighborhood. That's three people vouching that I didn't just make it up on the spot at least.

You SHOULD have gotten a message after my visit, confirming that my role and target are what I said they were, making you the fourth.

But that didn't happen, and I'm not sure why yet, but you getting JKed seems to be the most likely scenario here.

[Radical Rat]

Also, I would just like to correct everyone here. Ircher did not create our neighborhood. None of us did, unless it was StD and he's lying about it for.... Reasons?

Someone created a neighborhood pre-game that didn't include themselves.

[Radical Rat]

I think Flea is a better elimination than Cook.

Scum JKing their partner is a plausible theory, but I don't see any reason to assume Cook is said partner

[Radical Rat]

could flea be ascetic

Wouldn't fae be dead then? Andante's vig would go through, but not the rolecop. So I would be healing, which would then be negated by ascetic. Which means Flea dies.

[Radical Rat]

Honestly, massclaim might not be the worst idea right now. We can figure out exactly what happened with Flea and go from there.

[Radical Rat]

Something isn't right here

[Radical Rat]

No no, like.

This whole narrative you're spinning doesn't work.

I can't articulate what I mean right now, my thoughts aren't in words, but it's not adding up

[Radical Rat]

Yes, that much tracks, but where I'm hung up here is Cook.
Why does she make that fakeclaim here, and specifically why on Korina?
Why did you ask why she visited you, then out your vanillaizer theory and true chocolatey nature before she responded?

[Radical Rat]

And if indeed Cook DID vanillaize you, that still leaves the question... Why is Flea alive?

[Radical Rat]

I'm confused this is what I understand correct me if I'm wrong:
-Andante targeted vig shot at Flea
-Rat targeted loud CPR doc at Flea
-Flea received no message and is still alive
-Andante was vanillaized by cook
-Andante fake claimed ascetic

There was never a vig shot according to Andante

[Radical Rat]

Yes. Flea should be dead and isn't. That hasn't been accounted for, but a potential theory is that Flea was JKed

[Radical Rat]

What if someone else shot flea? There should have been 2 kills

Why should there have been two kills?

[Radical Rat]

What if someone else shot flea? There should have been 2 kills

Why should there have been two kills?

Two scum factions have flipped so I assume two kills AT LEAST.

Yes, but two scum factions have FLIPPED.
Either or both of them could have been solo. Until we actually see multiple kills in a night, I don't want to jump to conclusions over that.

[Radical Rat]

Because I didn't trust Andante and wanted to deny the kill.

[Radical Rat]

YOU HAVEN’T ANSWERED THE BIT ABOUT WHY I GOT A RESULT ON ANDANTE AND INSTEAD WENT TO “OH CAN’T VANILLAIZ3”
OR THAT YOU INCORRECTLY CLAIMED WHAT YOU’D SEE WHEN TARGETING ME

She didn't incorrectly claim what you'd investigate as though?

You getting a result is still a problem though

[Radical Rat]

She didn't say you'd get a guilty, she said the result would be bad.

[Radical Rat]

I interpreted it as "bad result" meaning the result wasn't reliable and should be discarded.

Regardless, I do agree that she looks very bad for targeting you, and even worse for you not being blocked, and would like explanations there

[Radical Rat]

@Cook

If you're informed a condemner is targeting you, why didn't you say so earlier? Seems like the sort of thing I'd want to be public knowledge, instead of retroactively applying it when your self defense is questioned

[Radical Rat]

People talked about massclaim that still on or what?

I would still like to do that, but Andante said she didn't want to. But also she fullclaimed anyway, so idk where people are standing on that now

[Radical Rat]

I'd like to massclaim BEFORE killing Cook, because I have a theory that could potentially exonerate them, BUT if I say it before everyone's claims are locked in, scum just fakes it.

[Radical Rat]

Alright how about this.

Anyone who did anything that could have possibly interfered with the claimed actions so far needs to fullclaim. If everyone checks in and says that they haven't, then whatever interference occurred was most likely from scum, and may or may not involve Cook

[Radical Rat]

Feel like it would be wise to say I visited andante, but did not vanilaize them

YOU ATTENDED THE PARTY TOO??? wow. I know of 4 visitors last night now… maybe more than that…
Also I tr Meg even more, like why claim an action on me if there was no need?

I’ve been VT all game - hope that clears stuff up

So that's the vanillaizer, who you believe is Cook, Korina's bloodhound, and Meg's unknown... who's the fourth?

[Radical Rat]

4th does not need to be announced, has no interference with you/flea

Alright, but it's information that you shouldn't have if you're indeed as Chocolatey and as Townie as you say.

[Radical Rat]

uhhh we literally have a discussion thread, if I die and it becomes relevant, you know where to find me

It's relevant for sorting you though is the thing. And yeah, I know Korina has an inno on you, but we also know that something messed with night actions, and that Korina's action is one of those potentially affected.

[Radical Rat]

uhhh we literally have a discussion thread, if I die and it becomes relevant, you know where to find me

It's relevant for sorting you though is the thing. And yeah, I know Korina has an inno on you, but we also know that something messed with night actions, and that Korina's action is one of those potentially affected.

why do you need my 4th visitor to learn I’m VT? If everyone visited me, doesn’t that make me town???

I need to know how you know how many people visited you if your role doesn't allow for it. Not specifically who or what. And no, everyone visiting you doesn't prove anything about your alignment???

[Radical Rat]

uhhh we literally have a discussion thread, if I die and it becomes relevant, you know where to find me

It's relevant for sorting you though is the thing. And yeah, I know Korina has an inno on you, but we also know that something messed with night actions, and that Korina's action is one of those potentially affected.

why do you need my 4th visitor to learn I’m VT? If everyone visited me, doesn’t that make me town???

I need to know how you know how many people visited you if your role doesn't allow for it. Not specifically who or what. And no, everyone visiting you doesn't prove anything about your alignment???

I know how many cause people have been claiming it? could be more than 4 that went to the party at my place last night… I just know of 4 at this second

There are only three public claims by my count though. Which means somehow you got this information from somewhere else. But fine, it can wait.

[Radical Rat]

Last person I need to hear from is GrandpaMo

[Radical Rat]

I think Flea is a better elimination than Cook.

Scum JKing their partner is a plausible theory, but I don't see any reason to assume Cook is said partner

OK, so whats your beef on me? Anything specific, or just flicking the bird?

My beef is still being cooked. Note that I haven't voted yet.

[Radical Rat]

I have many plausible theories, some point to you as scum, some do not. I haven't decided which I'm pursuing yet, but will elaborate further once I have.

[Radical Rat]

Last person I need to hear from is GrandpaMo

hii leave me alone k ?

Did you do anything last night that could have possibly interfered with actions taken by or directed towards Korina, Cook, Flea, and myself?

[Radical Rat]

uhhh we literally have a discussion thread, if I die and it becomes relevant, you know where to find me

It's relevant for sorting you though is the thing. And yeah, I know Korina has an inno on you, but we also know that something messed with night actions, and that Korina's action is one of those potentially affected.

why do you need my 4th visitor to learn I’m VT? If everyone visited me, doesn’t that make me town???

I need to know how you know how many people visited you if your role doesn't allow for it. Not specifically who or what. And no, everyone visiting you doesn't prove anything about your alignment???

I know how many cause people have been claiming it? could be more than 4 that went to the party at my place last night… I just know of 4 at this second

There are only three public claims by my count though. Which means somehow you got this information from somewhere else. But fine, it can wait.

this feels like scum!shade.

do u sus andante?

lmao when andante is obv town

I do, yes. I believe the current claim, but having an undue amount of information is something that is potentially a problem. But first is the problem of what exactly happened last night.

[Radical Rat]

Call it rolefishing if you like, but we have multiple failed actions, meaning either someone's lying about their claims, or someone else interfered. Knowing what happened means we can figure out who's lying, and from there we can find scum.

[Radical Rat]

Call it rolefishing if you like, but we have multiple failed actions, meaning either someone's lying about their claims, or someone else interfered. Knowing what happened means we can figure out who's lying, and from there we can find scum.

how do u know what was failed or not?

only the person who was visited shall know and have the ppportunity to out info if there is possible interference

Yeah, we already did all that.

I'm an Announcing CPR Doctor, I targeted Flea. Flea is not dead, but also didn't receive my announcement, so my action didn't go through.
Cook claims to have roleblocked Korina. Korina claims to have successfully used a bloodhound invention on Andante, getting an Inno.

[Radical Rat]

My strategy here is to confirm that no one who might have interfered is willing to confess, which does indeed appear to have been the case. Which means whatever interference happened, if any, probably came from scum.

If there was no interference, then Flea is lying, as is at least one of Cook/Korina.

So, that's my preferred elimination pool today. For now...
VOTE: Flea the Magician It's all just a bit too convenient

[Radical Rat]

Grandpa, idk how much you've read.

Meg, Korina, and the chocolatizer visited me last night, I also had a 4th visiter, I know who they are, think... friendly neighbor, but it's info I'm not outing, plus hey, if I die and it becomes applicable, there's a discussion thread I can say it

But there is a chocolatizer, which if town, turns you into a VT. I've outed this and Rat still wants a mass claim, so be careful with how much you share there...

I've already adjusted my desire for massclaim accordingly. No specific roles are required, and I already got what I need anyway.

[Radical Rat]

Town Announcing CPR Doctor

Each night, you may protect a player from kills. If the targeted player was not targeted by any kill actions, you will instead attempt to kill that player. You will inform the targeted player that they were targeted by a CPR Doctor.

Already fullclaimed

[Radical Rat]

Well that simplifies things then.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

[Radical Rat]

This is a transparent lie, because if you actually had such an investigative result, you would have called it out after I recapped the night actions.

[Radical Rat]

hm i see

so first: you could either be lying or there was interference
second: i’m assuming this means either cook id lying or korina is lying or there was interference on cooks role. it also means that bloodhound invention doesn’t get affected by rb.

this required no rolefishing but game solving. i still don’t see ur strategy here. we can just push the most possibile solution of what happened and push someone instead of forcing everyone to out. if u are real — you are most likely dead tonight. there is other sssulotions we can also assume as well

we should focus primarily on korina and your role.

Right here. Why would you make these posts if you """knew""" I were lying?

[Radical Rat]

This is a transparent lie, because if you actually had such an investigative result, you would have called it out after I recapped the night actions.

you never thought the possibility of me fskexlaiming ? it was obvious it was fake ngl because of the stuff you mentioned .

That is me actively accusing you of fakeclaiming

[Radical Rat]

The reason I'm defaulting to Flea, which I was going to explain before being interrupted with that nonsense, is because of Andante's claimed intent to vig fae. I targeted Flea to negate that kill, and apparently so did someone else. The difference though, is that I admitted it, and also apparently am not responsible for it. So it was likely a buddy that did something to prevent Flea being targeted, or in the event that there was actually no interference, Flea is bulletproof and lying about not receiving my announcement.

In Korina/Cook's case, I don't know who would be lying there, as I believe them both, and therefore expect interference. But if there isn't any, I wouldn't know who to vote.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Flea the Magician

[Radical Rat]

someone said something about aliens, I know nothing about that alignment, are aliens untargetable? like, we've never seen an alien irl.. is Flea just and alien? easy answer for why your doc thing didn't work?

Aliens are groupscum with only one factional kill instead of nightly. They typically get wacky abilities, but aren't by default untargetable.

[Radical Rat]

Korina was not ascetic, and I don't recall them ever claiming so. If they were, they couldn't have received the Bloodhound invention.

[Radical Rat]

reiterate: me rb'ing korina and korina getting an inno on andante means that my action was interfered with. i think kori claimed ascet post restricted?

why does someone else need to target flea for your cpr doc, rat?

Because Flea would be dead otherwise

[Radical Rat]

my current thought on the situation:

i blocked kori and it worked, andante's kill was stopped because my roleblock also stops factionals.

kori claims they got Town on Andante but they don't know i stopped them because they never actually did this. remember they've claimed they were functionally VT before?

Korina only claimed the result after you claimed to have blocked them.

[Radical Rat]

HOLD IT!

I should have done this earlier, but I just sifted through the Grand Idea thread for every Condemner variant, including the outdated name. None of them inform their target of their existence.

VOTE: Cook

[Radical Rat]

ALSO IIRC, CONDEMNER TARGET IS NOT ALWAYS GUARANTEED TO BE TOWN? SO LIKE, COOK COULD BE A CONDEMNER TARGET BUT STILL SCUM

A lot of them do guarantee Town, but none of them inform the target. And Cook just happened to mention that after you said it was a scummy defense unless she were informed....

[Radical Rat]

what about outside influence from other roles? effects? setup on the mod's part?

As far as I can tell from searching the thread, nothing does that. Nothing of the sort is mentioned in any searches for "Condemner," "Condemned," or their outdated counterparts, except on roles where the role IS simply to be condemned, which is not what you claimed.

[Radical Rat]

unknowing combinations can happen

why are you looking at this one dimensionally this is gim nothing makes sense

I'm not looking at this one dimensionally, I'm looking at this in terms of how Grand Idea works, because things do, in fact, make sense.

If it's not in the thread, it's not in the game. Weird interactions can exist that wouldn't be possible for a single role alone, but at least according to my searches, there are no effects or interactions that would lead to your claimed scenario.

If I missed something, which is definitely possible, feel free to find it and point it out.

[Radical Rat]

@Cook

If you're informed a condemner is targeting you, why didn't you say so earlier? Seems like the sort of thing I'd want to be public knowledge, instead of retroactively applying it when your self defense is questioned

I don't believe this ever got answered, but I would still like one if Cook's still around

[Radical Rat]

Just for the record, I also checked on whether a pre-game bloodhound invention were possible, and indeed it is.

[Radical Rat]

So that was a whole mess that didn't actually need to happen then

[Radical Rat]

Cheeky hammer looks bad I think.

[Radical Rat]

she said she was town

i think she was telling the truth because she took back the condemner part

Right, like she didn't take it back when confronted with its mechanical impossibility, but did after the hammer bluff. So she probably meant it

[Radical Rat]

Not necessarily. Depends on what messed with roles last night, if anything.

[Radical Rat]

I CPR'd Cheeky, claimed in the hood but not in the discussion thread because I didn't want it to be interfered with again.

She's alive, which means either I got blocked somehow again, or she was also targeted for a kill.

[Radical Rat]

So... I don't know whether to expect an honest response or not here, but...

Cheeky, did you receive a message last night?

[Radical Rat]

sounds good!! I have 0 visitors last night to my knowledge, also, I don't think we have alien chocolatizer, meg said they visited me... that explains that. no alien

Did you not say you got turned from Chocolate to Double Chocolate? Meg wouldn't have done that.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Rat
2 nights, no messages, no deaths on their targets.

Why would I go out of my way to claim a provable version that I know is never going to be proven instead of just claiming a normal CPR Doc and taking credit for protections?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Rat
2 nights, no messages, no deaths on their targets.

Why would I go out of my way to claim a provable version that I know is never going to be proven instead of just claiming a normal CPR Doc and taking credit for protections?

Because sometimes you just need to play balls to the wall and frankly I've seen some stupid ass plays in my year here that worked.

You're an Announcing CPR Doc, with no kills, no announcements.
Apparently I was jailkept by my faction buddy
And now you're claiming blocked.
Think about that a moment.
I was also allegedly shot by Andante - two blockers?

Andante never had a vig shot, and the JK was just one theory that I no longer believe to be the case.

But regardless of what happened to my action last night, Cheeky is obvscum for the hammer on Cook. Eliminate her today, and if you still think I'm scum tomorrow we can work it out then.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Radical Rat]

I honestly don't expect to get much more out of today. If we wanna massclaim, we can do that, but otherwise Cheeky hasn't shown much interest in defending herself, Flea's probably just gonna keep chainsawing, so if we want to progress the game, someone's gotta die.

[Radical Rat]

I mean, the discussion thread will be open during the night. Unless your thoughts are going to suddenly make Cheeky town, no reason to just sit around doing nothing.

[Radical Rat]

I honestly don't expect to get much more out of today. If we wanna massclaim, we can do that, but otherwise Cheeky hasn't shown much interest in defending herself, Flea's probably just gonna keep chainsawing, so if we want to progress the game, someone's gotta die.

Ah yes... chainsawing when I've been on you since yesterday for your BS claim. ok then.
Genuinely the amount of crap thats come out of your slot trying to frame me for being alive followed by your turn on another slot who denies your claim...

Get yeet.

You were only on me yesterday after I voted you. You were fine with my claim as long as I wasn't suspecting you or your buddy.

[Radical Rat]

rat, if you weren't to have died tonight, you were dead today. I had no bloodhound.
There was no role that gave a bloodhound.

There WAS a "role" that had you reroll, and then whatever role you landed on got a bonus invention of some other Grand Idea role, and Bloodhound was a possible role. So that's why I thought it was POSSIBLE.

[Radical Rat]

But yeah, gg all around.
Getting blocked two nights in a row was pretty rough, especially when those nights could have been double kills

[Radical Rat]

thanks TL for running this was fun!

trusted rat when i shouldn't have but it looks like it worked out okay. sad i didn't get to claim all my knowledge today but that's okay

In fairness, I didn't actually get to DO anything scummy, so I was BASICALLY Town.