Open 844 – Cults With Guns [Endgame]

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Kori - obvcult

[Flea The Magician]

I want to make a pun based on fucking up <AAA> but it won't work and I can't fully brain.

Also wow page 2.

No vibe much?

[Flea The Magician]

Well regardless.

Either Stephen is not Cult Leader, or real Vig will shot him. So can be left alone.


I PROBABLY SHOULD WARN:

INNOCENT CHILD, IF YOU EVEN IN DANGER OF ELIM, CLAIM BUT DON'T REVEAL

. This protects you from danger of converting.

Does it though? Like I've played cult before. Cult strips the ability to IC if it's not fired.

VOTE: Enchant

[Flea The Magician]

Well regardless.

Either Stephen is not Cult Leader, or real Vig will shot him. So can be left alone.


I PROBABLY SHOULD WARN:

INNOCENT CHILD, IF YOU EVEN IN DANGER OF ELIM, CLAIM BUT DON'T REVEAL

. This protects you from danger of converting.

Does it though? Like I've played cult before. Cult strips the ability to IC if it's not fired.

VOTE: Enchant

What? Isn’t that a cult-oriented response? Why would you want the IC to confirm in the first place?

I think Enchant was saying leave room for reasonable doubt, not whatever you just stated.

If you're up for the chop, claim, prove. At that point you buy more time for town and prevent a mischop that day. Next day the WIFOM game starts (which I was freaking great at last time I played cult, ngl)

Cult is fucking weird - Our objective for each and every one of us in this game, is win. Which side we win with changes mid game.

If you claim IC and then have to prove it later and you got converted, RIP you you're not winning.

If you claim IC and prove it you buy discussion time and it invokes ALL THE FUCKING WIFOM. You also don't get to see YOLO but still, I strongly see it as protown to claim and use at the right time.

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: flea

why are you voting enchant for what you deem to be incorrect mech specc?

The spec is short play accurate.

I'm playing to win. I was the N1 convert last game, and I still won.

If that means I want to play the long game and get more from this game, then I'm going long play.

[Flea The Magician]

They're the best convert for one reason with your thoughts like that.
WIFOM.

I'm a lil foggy still from cold turkeying some potent meds, so bear with.

Your spec optimally sees the IC live into YOLO based on play, they then secure the town game or force another night. based on F5/4.
Your F3 is screwed as that is then a WIFOM bomb at the worst time you want it - Unless the vig is still alive and holstered

My spec optimally buys town at least 1 day of solid information - confirms all previous days thinking as town, gives you a line to work on to check if they player has been recruited (style changes, hunting, posting, associatives that may be building) and removes that WIFOM bomb from YOLO as you remove that threat early.
The weakness in my spec is this games inherent WIFOMy nature you cannot know if the cult recruited the IC or not, which is the weak point to that role. After that night passess, they become unconfirmed again and come back to the same level they were at prior to that.

[Flea The Magician]

Okay. For kids.

IC CAN CLAIM. IF HE WAS NOT CCED, HE IS CONFTOWN. THERE'S NO NEED TO REVEAL.

AFTER WE KILL ALL ALPHA-CULTS (OR IF IDK), WE WILL ASK SAID CLAIMED IC TO REVEAL SELF VIA MOD. IF HE DOES REVEAL, GOOD HE IS NOT CONVERTED. IF HE DOESH'T, HE IS CONVERTED AND VANILISED.

Stop trying to prove stupidity.

Proving stupidity is much easier than mechanical discussion, and honestly its going to be down to the IC to decide what to do.

[Flea The Magician]

tbh I don't think IC should out here that's just asking to get culted

IC does not out here, that

is

stupid.

[Flea The Magician]

I’m very sorry for not seeing your post and ignoring it until I got a third vote, at which point I would be 1 away from a lolhammer in a game with a known lolhammerer.

Only one I know is N_M? whos the other?

[Flea The Magician]

Didn't realise that with Enchant.

Your meta really changed from our first game together huh...

butts.

Andante has been a scumbutt in every game we've played so far and I can't read her for nuts

[Flea The Magician]

what the actual fuck just happened?

[Flea The Magician]

I see a mod message and an alt slip, a mod confirmed outing? and a kaboom

[Flea The Magician]

flea however... fua criticized him in 33 and later voted him. do they really risk the life of their fellow cult leader like that? in what's probably an easy win game if they just sit and do nothing? it's... possible... but idk if I see it

This will be your only warning, my pronouns are Fae/Faer or They/Them if you do not wish to use fae/faer.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm not having a good brain day (heavy dissociation and pain) so if you want commentary on anything @ me plz

[Flea The Magician]

OK I'm here, not seeing what happened but eh, bonus from it. Whats the vibe on Dats?

[Flea The Magician]

I'm not feeling the dats cult vibe here, ngl. Low interest/energy maybe

[Flea The Magician]

I'm not feeling the dats cult vibe here, ngl. Low interest/energy maybe

who are you and what have you done to flea

I read you wrong in pretty much every single game we're in, and the vibe is difference.

I sttg dats if you're cult here amma be mad

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Wavemode

Bad take is bad.

[Flea The Magician]

i mean exactly what i said. your questions towards fua are hot air designed to make you look unaligned. you're not going through a thought process while asking them, they're not guiding your thinking, you're asking them for the sake of asking questions. which part is unclear?

Dats already covered their bit, and while I need to look better at the sequence in question, I'm thinking its right here - thanks to your frankly cruddy manipulation

[Flea The Magician]

so, you stopped reading the thread? my questions was, okay, what exactly in anything I said indicated that? I'm reading my own questions and the thought process is pretty clear. is it not?

I missed a good chunk I'll admit, my healths been crap. Shit happens. I've been reading bits, i've gone over Dats ISO knowing that I have a 100% misread rate on it to date.

I've read the sequence of posts from the one I quoted.

Your process isn't clear to me, and honestly your 233 also seems garbled to me ngl.

So I'll ask what has already been asked. Why should Dats explain to you, why it thinks you're cult?

Your 235 is crap, if I'm entirely honest. There's been a number of times I've gone into something raring and ready to look at it and just go "Ya know what. Shove it. I don't have the spoons/spell slots to do this, I'm not explaining to you when you're using fallacies and exaggerations. Just be yeet." as this is what I see you doing.

You've used a number of exaggerations and false interpretations, I don't think you've hit a fallacy yet but something tells me you're good enough at this to avoid hitting those.

[Flea The Magician]

Why should Dats explain to you, why it thinks you're cult?

I can't make heads of tails of this question. if he's town and he actually thinks I'm scum, why would his goal not be to explain his reasoning so people will want to vote with him? why would he just throw out something vague then shut down when asked for specifics?

I asked, what, a half dozen questions to fua? and none of the posts were long at all. you could probably read through it all in around 60 seconds. he couldn't point to a single point of actual evidence for his claims?

and I've been in a similar scenario before. in cul-de-sac mafia I led an elimination wagon on a scum, then their last remaining scum partner, as a desperation play, tried to come after me and argued the whole thing was just an elaborate bus. then when asked for specifics, could not really back up why they would even think such a thing. so, you talk about experience? I've experienced all this before. It's very obviously coming from scum

If he's town, and thinks your scum you are right in that town is owed an explaination for that read.
While I get yeah interrogate the peeps SRing you - pretty sure my counter tunnels are becoming legendary at this point - if it believes that you are going to twist and manipulate whatever he says then it's well within its rights to refuse to deal with you.

I skimmed those posts about your fua interactions, probably more null than scum for me if I'm honest - but I can see what he's getting at. That's not where my read comes from though.

---

Your 235 is crap, if I'm entirely honest. There's been a number of times I've gone into something raring and ready to look at it and just go "Ya know what. Shove it. I don't have the spoons/spell slots to do this, I'm not explaining to you when you're using fallacies and exaggerations. Just be yeet." as this is what I see you doing.

this is baffling to me. where were the fallacies, the exaggerations? I was asking him very simple questions, and accused him of nothing. why should it have frustrated him so much to be asked for simple specifics?

"your scum because I think your posts seemed fake"
"okay, what in my posts seemed fake to you"
(no response)

that's town? really?

Meanwhile on this very page, at a time not so long ago...

yeah, i have zero interest in explaining to who i think is scum why they are scum.

okay. you're functionally admitting your case is a fabrication and even you don't believe it. thanks for confirming

Exaggeration and wilful missed reinterpretation of what was said with a hint of undermining as a whole.

[Flea The Magician]

Exaggeration and wilful missed reinterpretation of what was said with a hint of undermining as a whole.

I get that you didn't like 235, sure. though to me 235 is an accurate interpretation of what's gone on here

but no, I'm talking about *before*. you said it's natural for him to not want to answer questions in the face of fallacies and exaggerations. but, when I was asking him questions, when did I ever make a fallacy or exaggeration? is "can you go into more specifics about your case" a fallacy or an exaggeration? I had not yet voted him nor accused him of anything at that point, I was just asking questions

ok.

You want this, you're getting this.

[Flea The Magician]

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

Good thing I already gave you my argument then.

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

I have decided it is probably not

game is 4:1 atp right? if we nail the cultist today we win otherwise we're 2:2 so vig has to hope to hit right?

Let me know what you're thinking from [post]54[/post onwards would you?
rereading it that line goes freaking everywhere

[Flea The Magician]

wasn't there shorthand for the [post] tags?

[Flea The Magician]

I feel like Flea is caught up on Datisi vs. wavemode rather than looking at the content which datisi and wave are looking at

@Flea, please consider - the last scum is currently solo scum. Anything they say from here out is just them trying to score eliminations to get to the night phase alive. Both alignments are also motivated by desperation after the explosion.

The only stuff that's really meaningful to solving fua's partner is what was said before fua's flip imo

Soloscum is still vastly more informed than we are and still holds an advantage. I've looked before the flip and I've looked after the flip too as BOTH are needed to solve. I'm agreeing with Datisi though.

The discussion between wavemode and fua feels fake, there's no pressure, no push, and honestly they're missing the point more than stormtroopers at a target range.

Then we get to wavemode on Datisi, we have a "no but yes, do it" tactic, elitelling and pushing more on "no but you actually don't have a choice, you're doing it" - this feels to me like cult locking on to secure the night to me.

I retract my exaggeration comment - wasn't as bad as I thought on that front.
Couple things have annoyed me though - misgendering me and an abuse tactic being used.

[Flea The Magician]

I've gone through the ISO, hell I did the triple ISO and I can't see the process, that said it's gone 2am and brain is a butt though better than yesterday.

[Flea The Magician]

have you read the above? of course I did not hard pressure, it was a flimsy read on page 3 of the game. I needed to understand more and get more content out of the rest of the players before making any stronger reads

and I apologize for the pronoun, honest mistake

I don't know what you mean by abuse tactic?

Pronouns were addressed at the time, I am going to apologise for raising it again, sorry.

As for the rest, funny you should ask.

"No but Yes" - The illusion of choice. You can refuse - but you will be pressured and forced to the thing anyway.

in 202 Dats basically said "Do I really have to ISO you and spell it out?" to which you reponded in 203 with "No but Yes."

well, no. usually when someone votes someone else, they have specific reasons in mind. all I wanted to know was, what those specific reasons were for you

200 was pretty clear imo.

i mean exactly what i said. your questions towards fua are hot air designed to make you look unaligned. you're not going through a thought process while asking them, they're not guiding your thinking, you're asking them for the sake of asking questions. which part is unclear?

The "illusion of choice" is reinforced here.

seeing things for myself and presenting them to others in a way that's understandable by them are two completely different things. not to mention that the other takes a lot of time.

is this conversation helping you in any way?

feel free to take your time

yes, I really do want to understand where you've coming from with this

I relate so hard to Datisis post ftr.
Converting the shapes and colours of my mind into words is hard.

anyway

I will likely *not* be around

VOTE: Datisi this flips cult. this push on me was a last ditch yolo play. but now he's given up and is avoiding the thread (yet he's still been posting elsewhere)

do we get to vote Cook as town MVP?

Elitelling...
Ableism of this "tell" aside, the only time I really see it used is when the case is crap and the person pushing it knows it.

Then this.

"avoiding the thread" lol i am not about to waste half an hour of my life explaining to scum why they're scum. nobody else asked.

...huh? you really have zero interest in explaining your *own* case? against what you truly believe is the last remaining cultist? why not?

okay. you're functionally admitting your case is a fabrication and even you don't believe it. thanks for confirming

The finale of the Illusion of choice.
"You didn't do the thing I wanted therefore you are bad even though you had the choice."

It's manipulative, it's shitty, and you've exaggerated on what Datisi was saying to frame as cult.

[Flea The Magician]

<3
I'm not.
I am 100% on cult wins xD


Also I'm not seeing what happened with the mod outed? dafuq did I miss?

[Flea The Magician]

nope, meeee

[Flea The Magician]

meh. town was probably never winning this anyway. gg boys

The Cult team of Flea The Magician, the worst, and fua wins!

so who was the alpha cultist? the worst I'm assuming?

No I would’ve cared more if I rolled cult originally

I decide the moment I got the alpha pm I was recruiting you lol