Grand Idea Greatest Hits [PAGES 5-7/400]

[TemporalLich]

yeah sure I'll /in

[TemporalLich]

4 would be a

Condemner Treestump

to me - Condemner is what the "win if target player is eliminated" 3P is named to me (though the name is prescribed and not described) and Treestump is defined that way in Great Idea Mafia

as for my thoughts:

1-shot RNG Cop can randomly be useless
Nymphomaniac really needs a different name but it's still named that in Great Idea
Adder only divides by 2 if the result exceeds the maximum - therefore it tends toward high number roles
Double Roler is kinda stronge
Survivor Compulsive Bodyguard should probably be on Worst Role Ideas
Jester Diplomat is a blacklisted alignment/role combo

I am tempted to vote 0 just for the meme but 4 or 8 would be good actual choices.

[TemporalLich]

Town Innocent One-Shot Dayvig is kinda a stronggood role, treestump is interesting and the alignment makes it spicy

rng cop kinda uncool

and nympho is -ve utility and has a needlessly inappropriate name

[TemporalLich]

Martyr is also a decent one

I still want to point out that my support for GIM post 0 (a VT, what Cook has labeled 1 because you can't manually override list orders, see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=88687 ) is for the meme

[TemporalLich]

I will point out that the Martyr is not the Peaceful Archon - the former only works for an elimination

[TemporalLich]

I still think the IC dayvig is a better role, as the Martyr is mostly useful as some weird multiball safety net

[TemporalLich]

Page 1 read list:

VT - useful choice ironically
Goon - boring
Survivor CompBG - should not exist
Cond Treestump - Very interesting combo, but being a 3P holds it back
Lover - Needs pre-planning to work
Confused - Annoying, provable randomness
RNG Cop - not well designed for what is basically a Number Cop Peek
IC Dayvig - Strong town role, dayvig exhibits chaos which is good
Jestdiplo - VETOED, banned combo
Tourist - -ve utility
Maf lover - Needs pre-planning to work
Nympho - change the freaking name
Post 13 - umm, what
Adder - Interesting concept
Double Roler - stronge
Judas - bad
High-Numbers Roleblocker - can we retcon this to beyond 100 in the GIMGH deck? if not then it is a needlessly specific roleblocker
Cop - it's a cop, we can do better than this
Saulus - bad
Maf Visitor - alignment kinda ruins the novelty
BPSK - 3P
Doomed Underdog - literally zero player agency
Martyr - negative feedback

pedit: condemner stump can be an interesting role assuming it flips and still can win when dead

ic dayvig I like because of the dayvig part

[TemporalLich]

N1 Compulsive Loverizer

I mean that works but is that really what you'd want that role to be called in Great Idea Mafia?

[TemporalLich]

ok that one's gold, actually gold enough to make it my pick for the elusive page 1 roll for GIMGH

[TemporalLich]

lovers inherently get PTs?!

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: VT
VOTE: Treestump
VOTE: IC Dayvig
VOTE: Lovebird
VOTE: Adder (iff it uses GIMGH numbers)
VOTE: High-Numbers Roleblocker (iff it uses GIMGH numbers)

[TemporalLich]

can we have these clauses to prevent GIMGH from having external pulls?

Number Clause - Anything referring to Grand Idea post number instead refers to Grand Idea Greatest Hits card number.
External Pull Clause - Any role that refers to an external list of roles is vetoed.
Consistency Clause - Any role that refers to the Grand Idea thread instead refers to the Grand Idea Greatest Hits deck.

(note that Adder and High-Numbers Roleblocker would be affected by the Number Clause, don't count my votes on those roles if the Number Clause doesn't apply and you can get non GIMGH roles with the Adder)

[TemporalLich]

another clause:

Mod Discretion Clause - Anything that involves mod discretion, including roles with missing alignment, is instead picked by someone/Cook/whoever runs the thread.

this one is controversial so I'd want this clause to be discussed

[TemporalLich]

seems like post 0 VT is unanimous

btw voting is approval voting here, vote for the roles you'd be happy seeing in GIMGH

[TemporalLich]

UNVOTE: tag exists if you change your mind about liking a role

[TemporalLich]

Post 1 VT is the only good one.

that's the one with the empty list of BBmolla's vetoes

[TemporalLich]

I'd suggest preserving the original wincon if it's stated, otherwise to not include any alignment (making a note that it's up to mod discretion)

Grand Idea rules state that if no alignment is stated it is assumed to be town, iirc

Thanksgiving patch says those are mod discretions now

If the description doesn't mention win con and there is no mod, assume it's town. If there is a mod for the game, it’s up to the mods discretion.

[TemporalLich]

thoughts:

Mega Gladiator is too much influence on game, too stronge
Stuntman is unfun
Mod Desc Role Shuffler was ruined by giving it Survivor wincon, survivor is a terrible alignment with no player agency and it is unfun to play as

votes:

VOTE: Town Mason
VOTE: Town Dolphin
VOTE: Town Megaman
VOTE: Mafia Tomato
VOTE: Town NK-Immune Miller Vigilante
(Role Shuffler if it isn't a fucking Survivor)

[TemporalLich]

let me tell you how bad Survivor is - I witnessed one self-hammer on Day fucking ONE

that should be enough to veto Survivors with a Clause

[TemporalLich]

let me put it to you like this - the self-hammering Survivor was a Mysterious Eidolon

[TemporalLich]

Survivor might be balanced with an overpowered (but not veto-level broken) role or if it were retconned to being a ToS-style Survivor (has 4-shot Activated Bulletproof as a factional ability).

But the lack of player agency unlike with Jester and Unjester is bad.

[TemporalLich]

As I moved here from TOS I actually enjoy Survivor because I just use it as an excuse to troll

It can be fun but it's mechanically really bad

You'd enjoy playing Jester.

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: Town Jack-of-all-Trades

also adding this to my vote

[TemporalLich]

If Stuntman double-won if their faction wins without any Town eliminations it would be worthy of voting.

As written, Stuntman is a negative utility role without any benefits as Stuntman has no incentive to not eliminate Town (as a win is a win). Stuntman is the worst form of negative utility and is

bastard

for imposing a hidden wincon (this applies even for double-win Stuntman, which is a better designed version that actually sows doubt in a scumteam and enables a 4D chess strategy to double win).

49's Role Shuffler is in my interpretation a mod discretion-aligned role that swaps roles (but not alignment, as the post says "role") with a target, meaning the role shuffler takes the target's role and the target becomes a role shuffler.

E.g. Player A (Town Role Shuffler) targeting Player B (Mafia Tomato) means Player A will become a Town Tomato and Player B will become a Mafia Role Shuffler.

Survivor Role Card Shuffler is more fun for whoever rands it but is a lot more chaotic as it causes alignment changes and the role basically becomes a hot potato as Survivor is a hard alignment. If it were an alignment changer, it would have all the implications of other alignment changers like Cult Leaders, such as what if groupscum got targeted or if the Role Card Shuffler or their target dies that Night. I still wouldn't vote for a role card shuffler, and I'd be unwilling to vote it with a balanced alignment.

[TemporalLich]

cult is groupscum in GIM iirc

[TemporalLich]

I meant like, a groupscum player who has partners is converted into either town or into another groupscum.

that would be the "what if groupscum got targeted" scenario for Role Card Shuffler, as that means a groupscum becomes a Survivor.

[TemporalLich]

YEah, but you have the ability to shuffle role cards with another player, such as a townie, which means that you've effectively de-converted yourself from being groupscum to being town.

that applies if you're groupscum somehow (like you were Culted), which is kinda broken actually

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: 2-Shot Desperado
VOTE: Conformer


also add these to my vote pls, megaman is better (I'm assuming it loses the blaster when it inherits a role) but Desperado is still worthy of being on the list

Catherine is a bit weird, it's a D1 Jester or Survivor

[TemporalLich]

Survivor

Not quite, it needs to hit final 2. Game ending before that point makes it lose.

then catherine is not well designed

[TemporalLich]

Dolphin is pretty much a passive Moonlight Dancer (or full IC if it actually flips like normal, which I am pretty sure Dolphin flips just reveal that they are a dolphin)

nonetheless Dolphin is quite creative and is worthy of being in GIMGH - it has that classic GIM charm

[TemporalLich]

we have this to hopefully weed out the badly designed stuff, hot garbage, crapola, and chaff.

[TemporalLich]

page three thoughts:

BP Miller SK - alright, pretty classic 3P and fairly balanced for making an SKattic game
Lemon Townie - pretty much Named, idk what interacts with sourness
Knowledgeable Townie - Good role, have modded a game with one in it before
Omnicidal Lumberjack - Interesting SK variant but a vanilla SK is already hard to win as. Has a

mod discretion

element to it - namely what immunities it gets.
Compulsive Vengeful Gladiator - Synergistic combo, and ungated gladiator has too much influence on the game. Alignment not specified, so it is

mod discretion

.
Town Scavenger - Going 72 hours without posting will likely get you force replaced for inactivity so this doesn't seem too useful.
Night-kill Jester - Just an Unjester that loses if daykilled. I'd rather have a standard Unjester.
Boundless - Dead interaction role, a pretty alright one though it should count as a mysterious disappearance if Boundless joins the Dead PT. Alignment not specified, so it is

mod discretion

.
Medium - Interesting and good role.
Placeholder -

This is 100% mod discretion.

JOAT 2 - The Enabler part of the role kinda makes it less good.
Voodoo Shaman - Interesting role. Alignment not specified, so it is

mod discretion

.
JOAT 2.5 - A good and powerful JOAT Alignment not specified, so it is

mod discretion

.
Prime Number Enthusiast -

Affected by Clause 2

, kinda strange role cop, requires a bit of pre-planning (also the Prime Number Enthusiast will actually be on a prime number here).
Leader of the Bland Band - This works only on VTs and Mafia Goons? Strange. Town role.
VT - We already have one.
Goon - It's a goon.
Treacherous Usurping Backup-Godfather - Wincon negative utility is bad. And being able to backup a Godfather is not worth it.
Avoider - Alright role, can be good for targeting scum.
Town Goon - Wow it's a vanilla with a cool name!
Magnetic Bomb - Useless role. Alignment not specified, so it is

mod discretion

.
Odd-Night Bulletproof Even-Day Jester - Even-Day Jester is an interesting concept.
1-shot Sentry - I assume this works the same way it does in Great Idea, acting as a Sentry only on the first night they are targeted.

pedit: making unspecified alignments town like they used to is a good idea for this thread.

[TemporalLich]

Page 3 votes:

VOTE: Bulletproof Miller Serial Killer - 126 incorrectly lists this as

Town

-aligned when the post the role is from explicitly states it is a

Serial Killer

VOTE: Knowledgeable Townie
VOTE: Town Medium
VOTE: Mafia Medium
VOTE: Town Jack-of-all-Trades 2.5 - Unspecified alignment, not explicitly mod discretion. I'm suggesting Clause 3 - Unspecified alignment posts are Town-aligned like they used to be.
VOTE: Town Avoider
VOTE: Town Goon
VOTE: Town 1-shot Sentry - Sentry is the term replacement for PGO, but I don't think it's well accepted yet.

I'll also point out that HURT: is to UNVOTE: as HEAL: is to VOTE: for the purposes of this thread - if you change your mind on liking a page 4 role you can use HURT: tags.

[TemporalLich]

Page 4 thoughts:

2s Friendly Neighborizer - excellent role, very powerful.
Nuclear Saint - Overpowered, but not broken
JOAT 3 - Pretty okay, idk what use town has for a framer
Temporal Inversed - You get an IC at the cost of a Vig shot. Interesting role, I assume this role can die again but not be revived again.

Dead interaction role

. I should point out that a Temporally Inversed Townie needs to flip to work properly, as the role explicitly allows targeting a dead player with a kill and that's not normally allowed. I assume multikilling a initially dead Temporally Inversed Townie still results in an alive Temporally Inversed Townie.
Scumhunter - An IC but with a bonus wincon making them want to scumhunt.

Possible double-win

.
Bloodhound - A classic Great Idea role
Trade of all Jacks - This implies needing to know the exact order of operations, which is not a thing in NAR. Copycat is not defined, but it probably means just repeat their action back at them.
Alien Sympathiser - Sympathiser is a good way to prevent scumteams of size 1 from being generated
Babysitter - Normal role. Docs if they survive that night, but vigs if they die that night.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - Join date and username elitism? Seriously? Bad role.
Amnesiac Random - Interesting reroll-type role. I assume this is a "reroll for alignment" type deal as well?
Doomed Variant - Wincon negative utility reroll-type role. Wincon negative utility is not worth being in GIMGH.
Soloist - If you're the only townie left you basically win and the scum loses. Or it might not work as a win button, idk.

BROKEN

Vanilla Brownie - Named townie.
Godzilla Townie - Flavorful but being full-silenced until Day 4 is godawful.

UNFUN

Alien JOAT - Non-standard JOAT as it is both Double and 5-shot (can use up to two abilities per night, and 5 per game).
Town Mason - Pre-planning would be needed.
Day 3 GC - I don't think having your alignment revealed as scum is a good thing.
FN - The basic Friendly Neighbor, pretty good role.

[TemporalLich]

Page 4 votes:

HEAL: Town 2-Shot Friendly Neighborizer
HEAL: Temporally Inversed Townie
HEAL: Innocent Scumhunter
HEAL: Alien Sympathizer
HEAL: Alien Babysitter
HEAL: Amnesiac Random

[TemporalLich]

gonna add these votes as well:

VOTE: Town Boundless (ideally should make it clear the boundless is full silenced or unsilenced if they act)

HEAL: Town Babysitter
HEAL: Mafia Babysitter
HEAL: Werewolf Babysitter
HEAL: Mod Discretion Babysitter

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: Town 1-shot PGO - Turns out nobody likes the name Sentry, and on the contrary PGO is acceptable.

[TemporalLich]

page 5 thoughts:

kinda unremarkable page tbh

Compulsive Mailman - Almost Normal
Kidnapper - A babysitter that can't heal
Role Caller - Making a setup open just to you is extremely strong
Machorizer - Permanently renders someone unable to be protected from kill by adding Macho modifier, quite strong
Monitored Beloved Princess - Why would anyone want this
1-shot Sensor - Sensor is known to be a very strong role
Scrabbler - Interesting idea I think? Idk
Weak CPR Doctor - Good idea it looks like
Vanilla Cop - Not terribly useful in Grand Idea
Vanillaizer - Almost as devastating as a Vigilante
Torchbearer - Negative Utility as Town

page 5 votes:

VOTE: Town Mason
VOTE: Mafia Machorizer
VOTE: Town Doctor
VOTE: Town Weak CPR Doctor
VOTE: Chocolate Townie
VOTE: Strawberry Townie
VOTE: Chocolate Goon - I assume this means "Chocolate Mafioso"
VOTE: Mafia Vanillaizer

[TemporalLich]

page 6 thoughts:

Diplomat Assassin - An easy to win as third-party. A third-party with a kill who wins if they kill a non-town player. Diplomatic immunity gives this a guaranteed shot.
Strong-Willed Ninja Kill-Everything Dragon - A SK-like third-party with a strong-willed ninja firebreathing attack and an ambiguously worded Bulletproof ability (does the Dragon get a shot of BP when a scum dies? when a scum dies by anyone except the Dragon? or just per factional kill in the setup?)
Pirate Captain - Makes people able to see Ninjas by adding Pirate modifier. Interesting idea.
Day 2 Rolepicker - Can pick a co-aligned role on Day 2. Very strong.
Pistachio - Funny flip role.
Firefighter - Stops priming and ignition, or just gets a player wet.
Taser Nut - Roleblocks a player, or kills a wet player.
MORDOR - BP Ascetic with nice meme.

Unspecified alignment.

Y U NO GUY - Hard but funny post restriction.

Unspecified alignment.

Vengeful Enigma - Has a list of venge abilities but will only know which venge ability they have when eliminated. Knifesmith is Blade Expert. Healthy modifier means immune to poison. Results are revealed in the game thread.
Pyromaniac - Town-aligned Arsonist
Arsonist - This refers to a third-party Arsonist
Tracker - Normal role
Dolphin - We already have a dolphin. The two on this page are scum however.
Peanut Butter - Forms neighbor pairs with Jelly.
Jelly - Must be upset about being a Townie in the first post.
Mentor - Defined as per Mentor on the wiki. Can recruit a Mentee if there isn't one, or either the Mentor or Mentee can use the Mentor kill if there is a Mentee. Mentor and Mentee has a PT.

page 6 votes:

HEAL: Town Pirate Captain
HEAL: Pistachio Mafioso
HEAL: MORDOR
HEAL: Town Taser Nut
HEAL: Mafia Taser Nut
HEAL: Vengeful Enigma
HEAL: Town Mentor

[TemporalLich]

page 7 thoughts:

Texas Justice Sheriff is interesting but relies on Vanillas to work.
Doorman is an interesting role.
Lazy Police Archivist relies on a Cop-like dying to work.
Denabourizer has some interesting interactions with scum that need to be worked out by a mod.

page 7 notes:

Cult Prime Recruiter and Town Jack-of-all-Trades 4 are

Affected by Clause 2.

The Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass has an

Unspecified alignment.

page 7 votes:

HURT WITH A BLADE: Town Doorman
HURT WITH A BLADE: Serial Killer One-Shot Usain Bolt
HURT WITH A BLADE: Town Lazy Police Archivist
HURT WITH A BLADE: Town Weak Elite Bodyguard
HURT WITH A BLADE: Mafia Reflexive Jailkeeper
HURT WITH A BLADE: Selective Condemner

[TemporalLich]

Here's the unofficial votecount:

Page Five

Mafia Compulsive Mailman - 1
Town Compulsive Mailman - 1
Town Mason - 1
Mafia Machorizer - 2
Town Doctor - 1
Mafia Ninja - 1
Town Weak CPR Doctor - 2
Chocolate Townie - 1
Strawberry Townie - 1
Chocolate Goon - 1
Mafia Vanillaizer - 1
Town Torchbearer - 1

Page Six

Town Pirate Captain - 1
Pistachio Mafioso - 1
Town Taser Nut - 1
Mafia Taser Nut - 1
MORDOR - 1
Vengeful Enigma - 1
Town Tracker - 1
Mafia Tracker - 1
Mafia Dolphin - 1
Werewolf Dolphin - 1
Werewolf Tracker - 1
Town Mentor - 1
Mafia Mentor - 1

Page Seven

Town Doorman - 1
Serial Killer One-Shot Usain Bolt - 2
Werewolf Sloth - 1
Town Lazy Police Archivist - 1
Town Weak Elite Bodyguard - 1
Mafia Reflexive Jailkeeper - 2
Selective Condemner - 1
Pastafarian - 1

only two people have voted - I think we should go back to 1 or 2 pages at once