Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:24 am

I don't see a world right now where I vote anything but you or Toog. You've clearly used the sacrifice room, you've fought the angels, but I don't see a single key piece on you. I'm getting the impression that you rerolled them with a lucky D6 you found in the item room.

I'm getting the impression you thought your build was good enough to take the 13th hit on the sacrifice spikes, and went straight to the Dark Room without thinking things through. I think one of these rooms will end your run soon enough, though.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:33 pm

Well, try not to take too long because I'm liable to pass out before deadline.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:40 pm

If Scorpious is town, this might be really bad. We might be locked into voting Fire now.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:42 pm

I REALLY hope Scorpious is still on because I would much rather vote Keeper over Fire.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:50 pm

I guess I wouldn't mind Fire but I don't really like how Scorpious just voted that and then left because now our votes are essentially held hostage unless he miraculously wakes up. I townread Scorpious, so unfortunately I need to follow his vote here. I'll give it some time, but again I'd much rather vote Keeper.

My thing with Fire is more PoE than anything. From my perspective, people I am not likely to vote are: hellbooks, Scorpious, Magik. Excluding myself that leaves FB, N_M, Keeper, Toog. 3/4 of those are scum for me, so from just random shot on fire we do have a good chance of a scumflip I guess.

Just, ugh. I really wish Scorp hadn't done that.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:59 pm

In post 1679, hellbooks wrote:a no elim isnt rhe end of the world but id rather aboid that so i dont be dead
Not that im being an incredible help now so maybe its Really not the end of the world

I guess no-elim wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but I'd still really rather not. Let's not assume we're going to no-elim yet, I'd like to read over Fire some. Right now we're pretty much at the option of no-elim vote or Fire vote, short of Scorpious waking up and changing his mind.

UNVOTE: Keeper

We still have a bit of time before the deadline and I don't have to pass out yet.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:50 pm

This is why I wanted to get this sorted before the day of the deadline. This is a hot mess and it's probably going to end in no-elim.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:20 pm

I'm just gonna

VOTE: No Elimination

Just in case I pass out.

Tejate Raichu · Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:27 pm

Oh, well you know what if Toog is switching maybe we can get N_M to memehammer this.

VOTE: Keeper

I'll try not to succumb to apathy yet, but I'm going to succumb to sleep soon.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:42 am

God dammit, I knew I should have discussed mech day 2 despite Nero's protests. Hellbooks played extremely well, and my reads were extremely off this game. I was a bit sus of hellbooks claim, but since no one believed what I was putting down about the setup, I decided to believe Scorpious' cop "check" since we were going with the assumption of no traitor in the hood and I was already TRing him. If we had ran with the assumption of traitor in the hood I would have doubted Scorpious' claim a LOT more.

Next time I play a large theme and have picked up on something about the setup, I am going to push my setup theories so hard, I don't care who protests. I don't care if they have 1000 years on site and are calling me scum for it, I'm going to do it.

But yes, I admit I didn't play very well here either. I went too hard on two tunnels that were ultimately town, and for the record I was trying to see if Keeper had a single town bone in their body there since they somehow didn't get hammered. But considering I had two scum in my no lim pool, unless we had actually seen a rock solid case on Fire, I think we were pretty much doomed no matter what. I was on the cusp of considering just voting for Fire off of bad PoE up until Toog switched votes and I was like "oh okay that works".

Anyways, hellbooks you played extremely well. Good game.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:48 am

Also, very fitting that the character I assume is supposed to represent the protagonist was the main carry.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:33 am

In post 1710, DkKoba wrote:tejate u did fine, you were p towny.
Mainly the vigs should have claimed there was a traitor instead of all trying to he heroes

The bp cop claim would never slide if a traitor is known

Yeah, the vigis should have left us with something. If there was even the slightest hint of a known traitor in neighbor PT and people weren't like "it's probably just a town hood for paranoia" when presented with my theory of a traitor in the hood I would have pushed to turbolim Scorp for sure, and possibly by extension hellbooks.

Still, I do have some regrets about my play. With the way day 3 went, even if we had gone for a Fire lim, I still couldn't see us ever winning. It seemed to me like hellbooks was pretty much universally written off even if Scorpious wasn't. It would have had to be a perfect storm of Fire > Scorpious > hellbooks, which seems very unlikely to me with the trajectory of that last day even ignoring my own reads.

Also, entirely unrelated to my sulking, Koba is there some history between you and Nero? I was very curious about the fact that you got vig'd as soon as you replaced in when your slot had 0 AI posts whatsoever, but I held off on mentioning it until now.

Also Scorp, I think Koba means if the VTs actually knew that. We were running with the assumption of no traitor in the hood for most of that day, I was really hard pushing to get opinions on that because there was absolutely no way your claim made sense if that was the case.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:03 am

Is that really the sole hint of what the hell was going in the vigi hood the entire game?

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:06 am

In post 1724, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1722, Tejate Raichu wrote:Is that really the sole hint of what the hell was going in the vigi hood the entire game?
yes?

Yep, we were absolutely doomed then. There was no way I was ever picking up on that and I don't think anyone else even bothered.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:35 am

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, what incentive is there to not claim hood outright in this situation? The entire mafia should know every single vigilante in the game by proxy of having a mole in the hood, and the vigilantes should know this. Not claiming isn't protecting PRs from mafia, it's just depriving town of info.

Tejate Raichu · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:40 am

Ah, right, traitor. Sorry, that detail slipped my mind. Okay, nevermind me.

Tejate Raichu · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:46 am

@Magik

What does WiM mean? Toog said it on day 3 as well, I'm unfamiliar with the term and it's not on the wiki either as far as I can tell. But too slow and too late is right, I'm still very disappointed with my day 3 performance here but at least that's something I can try to improve on in future games I guess.

I feel like, my biggest mistake day 3 wasn't pushing Keeper. My biggest mistake was being too reliant on the thoughts of others, the only real reason I easily accepted the idea that there was no traitor was because everyone else seemed to think that Pooky just created a hood of 4 townies to generate paranoia (except ironically for FB who expressed "concern" over N_M being neighbor even after this). If I had kept going with my theory instead of letting it be shut down like that, I would have hard pushed Scorpious since there is no way his claim makes sense then (though in hindsight it didn't make that much sense to begin with, it was just the closest claim besides a neighbor traitor that made some sense for the theme). In fact, in that scenario, hellbooks claim makes even less sense for the theme so just off of those two claims, so I don't think I would have even needed to case Nero that much to come to the conclusion that 2/3 remaining scum reside in Scorpious and hellbooks. But in the end, I took the easy way out: I was townreading Scorpious off of his prior play, and hellbooks seemed townie enough, so I sheeped myself and failed to do the one thing I could have done that would have brought us much closer to winning.

As for Nero's case, I do think it's entirely possible that I might have got Nero's hint if I thought it was actually worth putting effort into looking into. I think I almost had it actually, though I ultimately let both my biases and the belief that my theory wasn't worth putting too much effort into get in the way of what could have been an actual solve. If I had put more time into it instead of just going with my own bias on what I already felt seemed off with how Nero referred to Toog, I might have seen it.

TL;DR, I feel as though my day 3 play was pretty much the embodiment "close, but no cigar" and I don't think my play in prior days was all that impressive either. My reads were just completely off this whole game, seeing as my earliest TR besides Magik was Mafioso McMafierson. My only real read that was on point was about the setup, and I brought to discussion too late, and then dropped it too easily. In general I've always felt like one of my weakest aspects as a town player is that I can lose confidence too easily, and this game in particular showed me some specific examples that would have been much harder to pin down in chat mafia where everything is much faster.

I might end up taking a break from forum mafia for a bit for unrelated reasons, but I'll try to improve on the things I totally flubbed here going forward. Thank you for modding, Pooky.