Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Aristeia]

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

[Aristeia]

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

i did roll town ! ! did you?

It's actually impossible for me to roll anything but town! : )

[Aristeia]

i think you are lying to me based on that potions game but i will not say anything because i want to believe you are town : )

that was a replacement I did not actually roll the alignment that game

[Aristeia]

it's been a while since I've seen you - did you do anything fun over the weekend?

[Aristeia]

mine is yukinon from Oregairu

[Aristeia]

it's been a while since I've seen you - did you do anything fun over the weekend?

i made some art and was getting mentally ready for the new semester of uni, so nothing special

did you do anything interesting?

yes! I was feeling better and went skating in the park with some friends : )

Spoiler: pic

[Aristeia]

VOTE: tenebrousluminary

[Aristeia]

Yeet feels kind of town to me tho

[Aristeia]

and with that, my bus arrives at my destination and i must start my long and boring day of classes

see y'all in like 10 hours, try to not kill me in the meantime, mkay?

I hope you have a great start to your new semester dear! <3

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats <3

Something for you to listen to on your bus ride ๑(◕‿◕)๑

[Aristeia]

I didn't want to interrupt Datisi and Aristeia while they were having fun, but taking refuge in non-game conversations early on is a tactic I have seen mafia use often. Now that Aristeia has voted me, I regret being considerate!

would you like to talk about game related things?

[Aristeia]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

[Aristeia]

Dats did you roll town again ? ? : )

what makes you say

because I don't know his alignment and it is fun to try to figure out if he is lying to me

[Aristeia]

should we not then be discussing other things?

what would you like to discuss instead?

[Aristeia]

going to move Cape90 into my townlist because 215 is too adorable

[Aristeia]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

can you explain each slot

sure which one are you interested in?

[Aristeia]

I read myself as town because I can see my role PM : )

[Aristeia]

if you are going to accuse me of read fabrication you should at least have a disagreement with one of my reads

[Aristeia]

on which read?

[Aristeia]

I am looking for a geniune thought process on your part

which implies you looked at my list and thought "this doesn't make sense"

the fact I've asked you twice now for which read is out of place to you and you haven't been able to respond off the cuff makes me think you're likelier to be scum here in the sense that you haven't actually evaluated my reads and compared them to yours because you have no reads.

[Aristeia]

btw there was a gimme in the readlist in the sense that STD has only one post and i have him at townread and if you were actually inspecting the readlist - that should've jumped out to you.

Kind of a layup gimme that I gave you but I don't think you care because you didn't even notice it.

[Aristeia]

so thanks for stepping on that trap : )

VOTE: monkey

[Aristeia]

extremely AntiTown

I mean we did win despite your best efforts to eliminate me/datisi so perhaps you should re-evaluate : )

[Aristeia]

lol

this doesn't sound like the reaction of a townie who thinks I'm fabricating reads : )

[Aristeia]

I haven't read the game yet and likely won't get a chance to until late today. I was sleepy sleeping when it started and I have a lot of work to do today.

it's alright, i don't have too much free time right now either.

for whoever wants to weigh in on this - am i tunnelled on tenebro? like, posts 58, 140, 195, 202, 318 feel like specifically looking for scum!motivation from me / things to attack me over rather than actually thinking through my posts and drawing conclusions that way. i *want* to say i'm still feeling as sure in the read as i was an hour ago, but like, something something weak at emotion bad at mafia etc.

I don't think you're tunneled - I have similar feelings about Tenebro's posting being scummy

[Aristeia]

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

so which one would you like to do today dear?

[Aristeia]

ari, do you think both me and skitt are town?

pedit: if you'd asked me like half an hour ago, i would've said tenebro
but if there is precedent for monkey playing scum like *waves hands* this, i think that's something i want to explore first

I'm leaning towards you/skitter being town/town but I'm not confident enough in my abilities to be anywhere near 100% on that read atp

Her energy level leans towards town for her and mostly I read her by figuring out if she's flagging later down the line because she doesn't have a lot of endurance as scum down the line.

[Aristeia]

Clearly my main suspects are not of interest to anyone, and I see the shift in momentum as sweeping something under the rug. To that end, VOTE: GeneralWu.

What do you think of HEM?

[Aristeia]

On his merits, i am indifferent. It concerns me, however, that his attackers and my attackers are basically the same people.

do you have thoughts about his alignment independently of the people attacking him/you?

[Aristeia]

STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist. But Dats and Ari are straight-up ignoring, yes.

He hasn't really done anything notable for me to comment on - it looks mostly like lots of fluff.

[Aristeia]

its almost like posting lots of fluff in lieu of content is a scummy thing to do. Ofc, Fire is saying that it's just their playstyle in general.

I skimmed wu's 4 completed games on site - they are all newbies (2town/2scum) and I think he's more fluffy as town than as scum.

also I'm not really keen on scumreading someone for being fluffy this early as opposed to like actively scummy people.

N1
N2
N3
N4

[Aristeia]

well I see a bunch of people who have tene/hem as scumreads and I think its better to consolidate pressure on one of them rather than split and have things go slower.

I'm fine with pushing either one atp.

[Aristeia]

well I see a bunch of people who have tene/hem as scumreads and I think its better to consolidate pressure on one of them rather than split and have things go slower.

its 9 days till dl and there's still a good chunk of players that haven't posted. Seems a lil' early to talk wagon consolidation, no?

Yes but we are also on page 17 without a real wagon that has heat on it and I'd rather not have an 80 page day one because nobody rereads those and you have a real chance of inducing town apathy through excessive floodposting.

[Aristeia]

why would i not push for the people i think are scummy to be wagoned rather than "let things form organicly"?

[Aristeia]

because I want to kill bad people

[Aristeia]

in my experience people can lose focus/forget things in large themes that have a fast post rate and I think thats what monkey is hoping for when he lol'd at me and then threadghosted.

[Aristeia]

I think we should consolidate on one of HEM/Tenebro to push pressure and advance game state rather than splitting

so which one would you like to do today dear?

Vastly prefer monkey

I'm leaning towards you/skitter being town/town but I'm not confident enough in my abilities to be anywhere near 100% on that read atp

Why's dats town

Also fwiw i think 375 is +town for ari
Not necessarily the focus on wagoning hem/tene in particular, but the mindset r.e. consolidating

It feels like he's playing without cheat codes.

I guess I am a tiny bit biased here but I think he's not as carefree as scum tho I haven't actually played with scum him this is just based on what he's said about his scum game previously.

[Aristeia]

it's not even 24 hours into the game I think you're doing fine! : )

[Aristeia]

I expect scum him to be less defensive actually.

[Aristeia]

like its easy for scum him to deflect or take an easier line of defense here - the way he‘s defending himself feels like townie fustration to me.

[Aristeia]

dats tell me you're town again? : )

[Aristeia]

yay

[Aristeia]

Ari frames her narrative that she "forced" her readslist and pretends it's the scummiest thing to notice that it's bullshit and OMGUSes me.

I have reasons for every read, I just found it unbelievable for you to approach me in the way you did and then "lol" threadghost when called out on it.

[Aristeia]

You didn't even vote me or call me scum but sure.

[Aristeia]

I mean that's literally what you did?

[Aristeia]

oh yeah? how come you never elaborated and dodged the question with an OMGUS? you had the whole day.

I've elaborated on every read I've been asked about.

For example when skitter asked me about Datisi, I answered her.

I asked you which read you were interested in and you couldn't come up with an answer.

I accused you of being scum for it and then you said "lol" and ghosted.

That's not me dodging you- that's you dodging me.

[Aristeia]

I live in GMT +8 and I have a day job. I can only play mafia in certain hours. What's your excuse? You literally were here the whole day to respond.

I don't think this is an excuse to go "lol" and thread ghost

[Aristeia]

Aristeia, why do you think Datisi is town?

His reactions and thread presence feels unscripted and off the cuff. I expect scum him to be more planned out and careful in how he engages with the thread.

[Aristeia]

No, we don't "all" know that it's bullshit... why would you say that?

Do you think the readlist was genuine at the time it was made and do you think the response when I asked her to elaborate her reads were unsuspicious? I read it as dodging questions with an OMGUS. Check that part of the thread again.

I asked you which read you wanted me to elaborate on because I don't feel like answering busy work questions.

I expect you as town to have your own reads and be asking me for clarification on reads that you find to be likely to be fake or made up based on comparison to your own reads.

Instead of doing that - you continued to dodge as if you had no reads of your own to compare to mine.

Furthermore when called out on this, you said "lol" and then decided to leave the thread.

I find the last part particularly unlikely for you to do if you're town and you think scum!me is fabricating reads.

This latest accusation about how I'm "omgusing" you is pretty strange since afair you never really voted me? weren't you literally just yesterday telling me you just wanted to understand my thought process?

[Aristeia]

I don't think this is an excuse to go "lol" and thread ghost

Still no elaboration from you. What's up with that?

Which read do you disagree with and why?

[Aristeia]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

That

was

overblown, but I think monkey is making a better argument than Ari right now.

Would you like to explain your thought process ? : )

[Aristeia]

I don't think this is an excuse to go "lol" and thread ghost

Still no elaboration from you. What's up with that?

I don't answer busywork questions because it's a waste of my time and it's generally not very useful for moving the game state forward.

I can give you every reason for every read but it would not help me understand what your thought process is or what you are interested in.

The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.

[Aristeia]

This latest accusation about how I'm "omgusing" you is pretty strange since afair you never really voted me? weren't you literally just yesterday telling me you just wanted to understand my thought process?

no i thought you were bullshitting your readslist and i want to understand if there's a glimmer of town in there to sort your slot better. there is none, or you would have responded differently.

if it's not clear, i mainly don't believe any of those reads were real. specifying which read was unproductive, because i do not believe all of it. however, it would have been nice to hear you explain them and give light on where your head at that point instead of the omgus i received.

if you think all of my reads are fake it's pretty dumb for you to not just pick one

[Aristeia]

Like honestly what are you even doing? You think I made up a bunch of random reads on page eight?


why?

and when I give you the chance to quiz me / go in depth on any read and talk it out, you dodge and then go "lol" and ghost the thread?

now you come back and start screaming that I'm OMGUSing you for you refusing to engage with me? like what are you even on?

[Aristeia]

that sounds like directly engaging with your question

check the joke dismissal she makes after i make it clear that i'm interested in her slot, not her reads.

I literally told you I'm willing to walk you through any of my reads that you think are wrong.

What are your reads?

What do you disagree with me on?

Do you really think this is an unreasonable conversation to have?

[Aristeia]

You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?

my readlist is genuine.

there are reads in there that I can see someone having a legitimate issue with based on thread progress since at the time.

the fact that when I ask him he doesn't really want to have a conversation about a particular read is a red flag to me because when I evaluate read lists I usually compare to my own reads and look for areas where we have dissonance.

The fact that he couldn't come up with a single dissonant read to talk about implies he didn't have any reads of his own and he's just asking me busy work questions that he's not particularly interested in.

[Aristeia]

What are your reads?

What do you disagree with me on?

Do you really think this is an unreasonable conversation to have?

Ari, it's clear that I'm not interested in the reads themselves whether i disagree or agree because that can happen even if you're town or scum (that i would agree or disagree). that conversation doesn't matter. what matters is that the reads came from a genuine thought process that you would give me if you answer my prompt.

here, you're going back on forth on whether the readslist was genuine or not. Is it a trap? Is it real? What?

do you even have reads?

[Aristeia]

I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

[Aristeia]

The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.

Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.

To me it seems clear that the "which read" question was clearly answered with "all of them," and even if you did not like that answer, I do not understand why you are getting on monkey's case about it and framing not just choosing one as some sort of evil maneuver targeted to waste your time. You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

all of them is not an acceptable response to me as it shows me he has no reads of his own to compare my reads to.

it means he's either scum asking me a busywork question to look busy or town who is not prepared to have a conversation on anything.

[Aristeia]

except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.

That's so malicious. You keep coming back to this argument like closing this game to live my life is the scummiest thing ever.

It's far more likely you're scum panicking rather than town who actually believes I'm scum who made up reads.

If you're town who believes I made up reads I think you press me there.

[Aristeia]

If you're town who believes I made up reads I think you press me there.

I'm still pressing you now.

I feel so much pressure from someone who has no reads and decided to hide from me.

[Aristeia]

all of them is not an acceptable response to me as it shows me he has no reads of his own to compare my reads to.

Why can't it show that he genuinely was just trying to firm up his read on you? I asked Save The Dragons a similar question myself for a similar reason.

because him not having a read that he's interested in shows me that he's not actually sorting people.

the idea of talking reads out is that

you have reads yourself that you want to talk about

[Aristeia]

it's like showing up to a study group and you haven't done any of the work and you ask your teammate to check her answers to see if she's doing it right.

it's nonsensical and bad faith.

[Aristeia]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.

I just don't see the scum motivation here.

what would scum HEM do? lay down and let me kill him?

[Aristeia]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.

I just don't see the scum motivation here.

I also don't think he would have admitted to having no reads. That was self-defeating in terms of the argument.

Why does a town player have no reads on page 24?

[Aristeia]

I will talk to you about any read you want to talk about if you have your own thoughts and you disagree with me on something.

I am not here to do busy work for you.

[Aristeia]

I still don't think he asks Aristeia to explain every single slot on her early readslist if he is scum and it seems like he genuinely expects her to. In my opinion it is easier to fabricate a more normal looking approach to the game than doing something weird and particular like this.

asking questions that you are not really interested in the answer to is literally one of the easiest things for scum to do to coast.

[Aristeia]

I still feel it's a big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.

I'm fairly sure he didn't plan to have a 1v1 or get into a fight.

He probably thought it would be fairly convenient to ask some questions about my reads and get some answers to make it look like he's "sorting" me or "interested" in my reads.

I turned it around and asked him which read he was interested in because I wanted to see what his thought process was - since if he had someone at a similar read, it wouldn't make sense for him to ask about it - it really only makes sense to ask about reads you disagree with.

He couldn't really come up with a single example and when I accused him of not having reads and not spotting the STD read if he was genuinely interested in my readlist - he responded with "lol" and then disappeared.

Now he's come back and decided to double down on 1v1ing me after seeing that I didn't go away or get distracted by something else; since at this point the hiding from me strategy didn't work he's going for the run at me full speed and challenge me to a fight strategy.

[Aristeia]

Sure, but why would he ask you about every single read as scum, which is clearly a big ask? It's more likely to me that he saw noticed something in particular as town and didn't care about how the possible interaction would unfold. Scum subconsciously plan ahead more than town, is one of the theses I have in this read.

yes that's exactly what I'm saying - town usually see a read they disagree with or don't like and want to talk about it - scum like to ask for a multitude of reads because they want to pick out which read to attack for being "weak" etc. It's a difference in approach that heavily leans scum.

[Aristeia]

Let's start at: Why do you feel that yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std are all good vibes at #208?

writing the names out doesn't make your request any more nonsensical.

you can pick a name to talk about or I can pick a name to talk about.

I suggest you pick the one you have the most disagreement with me on.

If you want to say you have no thoughts on any of those slots you might as well just claim scum and stop wasting my time.

[Aristeia]

I don't see how asking someone which read they disagree about so we can have a conversation

on that read

is unreasonable.

if anything him providing no reads while asking me to explain all of my reads is kind of unreasonable.

[Aristeia]

look monkey

i'll make this very simple so we don't waste more pages talking back and forth.

I think you're scum

You think I'm scum

that's fine.

whenever you ever get to the point where you have a read that you disagree with me about and want to talk to me about that read just @me and tell me I disagree with your read on ____ and then we can talk about it.

[Aristeia]

Aristeia, why do you think Datisi is town?

His reactions and thread presence feels unscripted and off the cuff. I expect scum him to be more planned out and careful in how he engages with the thread.

Isn’t that way enough to fake though? You just kinda described the ideal behavior for either side.

Datisi is kind of nervous when he plays scum - he has a lot of self-doubt and worry - he likes to plan things out; I don't think he would confidently interact off the cuff in real time because he's super worried about being caught.

[Aristeia]

Sure let's discuss Datisi then.

Why does Scum Tisi decide to not create a townblock?

[Aristeia]

also why do you think it's impossible for you to form reads this early but also claim datisi should be able to form a townblock this early?

are your abilities so much lower than his?

[Aristeia]

Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me.

Do you have a previous case of Datisi pressuring you off the bat? Is it scum!indicative for him to be interacting with people other than you?

[Aristeia]

Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy".

He lowered his opinion of your scum game based on Nero giving him a counter example.

[Aristeia]

His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

How are you making this assessment?

[Aristeia]

also why do you think it's impossible for you to form reads this early but also claim datisi should be able to form a townblock this early?

are your abilities so much lower than his?

why are you trying to pick a fight?

also yes, datisi is terribly more experienced than me.

I think you're mafia and I think datisi is town and I find your reasoning in your post to be absolutely ridiculous on its face.

You assume that Datisi is able to create a townblock in the first 24 hours of a large theme... which makes very little sense to me - you also previous stated you think nothing ai has actually happened and you think people shouldn't be able to form reads - this is a contradiction just on the surface.

You are imposing a standard that by your own admission is absurd upon Datisi and using it to push him.

[Aristeia]

like why are you even pretending to be confused by my actions?

just on the last page you stated that you think I am scum trying to misyeet you and now you're pretending you have no idea why I could be pursuing this line with you?

[Aristeia]

Do you have a previous case of Datisi pressuring you off the bat? Is it scum!indicative for him to be interacting with people other than you?

No, but if he does claim that I'm good scum, I expect him to be more suspicious. I only had two completed games with Datisi iirc.

in context he claimed you were good scum in order to defend you from people pushing you for giving a "lol" defense.

as in he thinks you are town because he thinks scum!you doesn't react that badly.

as in he is sorting you by looking at how you interact and decided the reaction was likelier from town you because scum you in his viewpoint is somewhat competent.

[Aristeia]

like why are you even pretending to be confused by my actions?

i'm confused because you're not trying to play a game with me. you're actively becoming more hostile with mentions of me being less skilled or Datisi's opinion of me being lowered.

You said on the last page I am trying to kill you because I am mafia.

Why are you pretending to be confused by my actions now?

In fact if your world view is that Ari!scum is trying to misyeet me - my actions on this page should make perfect sense to you no?

If you believe Ari/Datisi are scum together this would be a textbook example of chainsaw defense no?

Instead you're

confused

about what I'm doing?

[Aristeia]

He lowered his opinion of your scum game based on Nero giving him a counter example.

do you know that i won this game?

I care more about process, scumrange and how people play in different alignments/scenarios. Whether you win or lose a scum game is irrelevant to me.

[Aristeia]

What do you mean by "townblock"? Can you quote the reply where he implied that?

a townblock is a group of townreads that mutually townread each other - it's a method for POEing a game down based on expansion of a core group of mutually agreed townreads.

What monkey is saying is that Datisi is scum for not creating a townblock or starting to create a townblock.

But he's also stated today that he thinks people don't have enough alignment indicative material this early in the game to create reads and that he doesn't really have reads himself.

so this is an obvious contradiction in that he expects Datisi to be creating a townblock while he himself claims he doesn't have townreads nor that enough AI material has gone on for people to create townreads.

[Aristeia]

You assume that Datisi is able to create a townblock in the first 24 hours of a large theme... which makes very little sense to me - you also previous stated you think nothing ai has actually happened and you think people shouldn't be able to form reads - this is a contradiction just on the surface.

You are imposing a standard that by your own admission is absurd upon Datisi and using it to push him.

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

We are 24 hours into the game.

Datisi has been in class for 10 hours and slept for maybe 6 or 7 hours.

Your expectations are ridiculous and directly contradict what you previously said about there not being enough alignment indicative material to create townreads this early.

[Aristeia]

You said on the last page I am trying to kill you because I am mafia.

Why are you pretending to be confused by my actions now?

In fact if your world view is that Ari!scum is trying to misyeet me - my actions on this page should make perfect sense to you no?

If you believe Ari/Datisi are scum together this would be a textbook example of chainsaw defense no?

Instead you're confused about what I'm doing?

yes, because you are also trying to pretend that you're town publicly.

I am talking about your point of view.

You have stated on page 30 that you are convinced I am mafia trying to murder you.

You then state on page 31 that you are confused about what I am doing.

This is a perspective slip - you forgot you have me at hard scumread because your scumread of me is fake.

[Aristeia]

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

here you go

[Aristeia]

But he's also stated today that he thinks people don't have enough alignment indicative material this early in the game to create reads and that he doesn't really have reads himself.

so this is an obvious contradiction in that he expects Datisi to be creating a townblock while he himself claims he doesn't have townreads nor that enough AI material has gone on for people to create townreads.

the process to get to those townreads will be obvious, he doesn't need to generate one.

What are you even talking about

[Aristeia]

What process does Town Datisi do that he's not done in this game?

[Aristeia]

which posts do you believe are nitpicking and do you have an example of him doing this as scum in a previously completed game?

[Aristeia]

why am i so far away from you : (

[Aristeia]

i'm sorry ari, i'm slightly paranoid you're so strongly defending me because you know i'm town and want me to like you :<

those things are both true when I am town as well dear

[Aristeia]

i'm sorry ari, i'm slightly paranoid you're so strongly defending me because you know i'm town and want me to like you :<

those things are both true when I am town as well dear

you do not know if i'm town when you are town, though

I haven't been that bad at reading you in our games together?

I guess if you are using the strict definition of "know" maybe but I tend to be an optimist at heart.

[Aristeia]

well it's rough on me when you call me mafia >.>

[Aristeia]

you could have just asked him what you should be townreading him for.

[Aristeia]

it is unfortunate Dats views the world through the lens of cautious paranoia but its also kind of endearing <3

[Aristeia]

it was made all the more memorable and entertaining by his tremendous paranoia and decision paralysis though!

He did get the right answer in the end so we shouldn't give him too much shit for it <3

[Aristeia]

I don't white knight the LHF as scum I take the easy lims when they come.

[Aristeia]

I define LHFs as town misyeets that are easy for the scum team to get.

If my scumbuddy was being bad I would probably just bus them.

[Aristeia]

I TR people who were on the side of HEM at the moment.

Who are you talking about specifically?

UNVOTE: HEM

[Aristeia]

HEM wagons feels p townie to me; is there someone on there you suspect MB?

[Aristeia]

why wouldn't she let NKs sort out a mason claim? ~.~ seems kind of common sense to me.

[Aristeia]

why wouldn't she let NKs sort out a mason claim? ~.~ seems kind of common sense to me.

That’s what she says she’s going to do.

But instead she’s taking a kind of passive aggressive stance.

It’s different.

Did you read it?

yes, I don't understand what you find scummy about it?

[Aristeia]

why can't the explanation simply be that HEM was p scummy and got votes because he was playing somewhat scummy?

you know just because someone has a town role PM doesn't mean it's impossible for them to play in a way that is scummy right?

[Aristeia]

a claimed inno from an investigative role is not the same thing as a mason claim tho

[Aristeia]

we should definitely not use an investigative role on a mason btw thats not what I am saying at all

[Aristeia]

have a good weekend skitter!

[Aristeia]

i did not see anything

i'm alright, i have a three-day weekend coming up so i'm looking forward to finally catching up on sleep. today is gonna be kinda meh though, got a class i am not looking forward to >_>

yay : )

sleep is nice

[Aristeia]

if Datisi/Wu/HEM/Nor are all town it could just mean town are moving from one wagon to another while scum are twiddling their thumbs no?

[Aristeia]

if scum don't move they just kind of get stuck behind on wagons that died and look like they aren't doing anything.

playing scum requires moving in a game state in a way that looks natural - they can't just stay somewhere and do nothing and expect to survive.

[Aristeia]

what happened here

mathblade claimed you are masons with him

[Aristeia]

fire is saying things that i wanna say, but better

they can be my math-related lawyer for the next few hours

this is a good idea

btw who do you want to vote for now?

[Aristeia]

my interpretation of mediator is being on the side of reason and logic.

then your "interpretation" is wrong. A mediator is someone who tries to bring peace and resolution to a conflict. You could say "well Nero/Fua is wrong about me being a mediator b/c I was taking the side of Ari."

Also, Ari was straight up being childish.

I think I am quite reasonable actually : )

[Aristeia]

ackvhually it would be assuming 9 not 10

but also i thought it was assuming 4 vs 5 as opposed to 9 vs 5 so don't mind me

From her POV yeah

Mainly I think even if she thinks my narrative is wrong she needs to find a scum in those wagons or try to sell that 10 town (9 other than herself case).

I said I thought the 6 people voting monkey felt townie to me and if you have a scumread in those 6 then I am happy to talk to you about that scumread.

Also saying there is one scum in 10 people is literally useless

[Aristeia]

math, how much on your read of me is based on vca vs actually reading the game? because this is a bit frustrating

Bit of both.
Some of the mason PT lead me that way
Some of my initial reads.

Like Skitter hasn’t had a “ping” she gets pings. It’s weird.

The relationship dynamics between you and Ari are off
Not enough flirting.

monkey is voting me for flirting with datisi

you are voting me for not flirting with datisi enough

perhaps the two of you should figure out a narrative that makes sense in your mason pt and not waste my time with nonsense ok?

[Aristeia]

probably try this

VOTE: scorp

[Aristeia]

math, how much on your read of me is based on vca vs actually reading the game? because this is a bit frustrating

Bit of both.
Some of the mason PT lead me that way
Some of my initial reads.

Like Skitter hasn’t had a “ping” she gets pings. It’s weird.

The relationship dynamics between you and Ari are off
Not enough flirting.

monkey is voting me for flirting with datisi

you are voting me for not flirting with datisi enough

perhaps the two of you should figure out a narrative that makes sense in your mason pt and not waste my time with nonsense ok?

Perhaps you should give reads.

We both agree the flirting is sus for different reasons

thats an interesting way of saying you are both wrong for diametricly opposite reasons

[Aristeia]

probably try this

VOTE: scorp

Any reason why you’re avoiding both the HEM wagon and my wagon to pick from?

because I don't use vca before any flips happen.

[Aristeia]

but srs scorp is a shitty vote

ok do you townread him?

[Aristeia]

I am not surprised : )

[Aristeia]

How many scum do you think are in those 10 players?

[Aristeia]

he already did

[Aristeia]

lol

you always make me laugh fen thanks <3

[Aristeia]

How many scum do you think are in those 10 players?

I think it forms a good PoE to elim within today.

Not sure. Why does what I think matter if you think my reads are bad?

Why don’t you have an opinion on who could be scum in > half the game?

what reads are you even talking about?

you said you want to elim on wagon i said ok who do you scumread on the wagon and you haven't actually produced a scumread for us to discuss ?

[Aristeia]

How many scum do you think are in those 10 players?

I think it forms a good PoE to elim within today.

Not sure. Why does what I think matter if you think my reads are bad?

Why don’t you have an opinion on who could be scum in > half the game?

what reads are you even talking about?

you said you want to elim on wagon i said ok who do you scumread on the wagon and you haven't actually produced a scumread for us to discuss ?

I do want to elim on either HEM wagon or my wagon.

I have a broad area and see who people want to push.

You should have a scumread in that PoE.

My vote is on you right now. So if you insist on an answer you but it’s really you that should provide reads.

If you have a scumread I will discuss it with you.

If you are going to claim 1 scum in 10 means we should elim in the 10, um just by math that's wrong?

[Aristeia]

I don't think scum!me would really work well with mathblade either tbh

[Aristeia]

I don't actually think I'm acting scummy.

[Aristeia]

I'm around here rn:

order doesn't really matter.

Town:

MalcolmTucker
Datisi
mathblade
monkey
skitter30
fireisredsir
Nero Cain
VP Baltar
Aristeia
Cape90
Yeet

null
Save The Dragons
Frogsterking
fua
tenebrousluminary

scummy
Scorpious
DeasVail
Eyes without a face
GeneralWu

[Aristeia]

the main motivation is to pretend like they're town, right? so it always makes sense in that regard.

not if nobody is buying it

and by the looks of it, i am the first one to even bring up the possibility that ari as scum probably wouldn't be running around ignoring requests from math and nero because it's just making them more likely to want to kill her

datisi i'd rather just die than have to talk to nero/mathblade lol

[Aristeia]

my thing is that Ari is voting a mostly inactive limbait slot and that just seems like loads of ass for a 2k post games.

yes + i thought she scumread tenebrou? why not pursue that option or get a harder read

that was like 50 pages ago lol

[Aristeia]

If she’s town she’s not even putting effort into reads this game which was long before my replace in.

this is funny because I have actually discussed reads this game with multiple people in depth.

[Aristeia]

I'll be honest I'd rather die d1 than i have to talk with nero/mathblade for an extended period of time.

[Aristeia]

mb i'm fine with you trying to deathtunnel me but can we please not use meta from an account that is not me? thx

[Aristeia]

I find you unpleasant to play with because you can be quite loud, confident, and comically wrong as town and it's a pain to deal with.

[Aristeia]

I'm actually fairly accurate as town and I was defending you here b4 u voted Scorp so...

we've played together once and you loudly insisted I was mafia and then self-hammered yourself and wanted me/datisi flipped the next day(which was mylo) and we were both town so that's not really my experience with you.

[Aristeia]

I voted Scorp because I think there's a good chance of him being mafia

[Aristeia]

I don't actually care if mathblade mislims me this game on d1

it would be preferable for me as opposed to dealing with his shit for as long as I dealt with it last time.

[Aristeia]

If Ari is town she would be putting more thought into the game than just tackling low-hanging limbait.

I think I've put a fair amount of thought into this game.

I evaluated the HEM wagon and find the players on it to be mostly townie so I evaluated the game state as town driven wagon on town in a fast moving large implying scum are mostly hanging low and unmotivated to participate.

I asked mb which player on the HEM wagon he found scummy and we could discuss that if that's where he wants to go, his response was "if you won't push someone on the hem wagon then you can go die" which is a nonstarter for me.

I decided to vote for scorp because of all the people who are not posting/participating he is the most egregious example for me.

[Aristeia]

do you see anyone voting for scorp?

[Aristeia]

like you keep saying scorp is easy to wagon but I don't see any votes going toward him so I'm not sure how you are making that evaluation besides pulling something straight out of your ass

[Aristeia]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

LHF implies town alignment and I don't really see how you're making that determination.

[Aristeia]

I do like being defended tho it is a nice feeling <3

[Aristeia]

mathblade when someone disagrees with your opinion they aren't calling you bad.

they just have a different opinion.

[Aristeia]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

LHF implies town alignment and I don't really see how you're making that determination.

Not necessarily, but it’s FoS because I SR you and you’re pushing him.

you SR me for pushing him.

you townread him because you SR me.

isn't that just circular logic?

[Aristeia]

that's a good point about fua

VOTE: fua

[Aristeia]

Scorp is someone who won’t defend himself and as you said, is a low poster/not participating. It’s uncontroversial LHF.

LHF implies town alignment and I don't really see how you're making that determination.

I disagree, LHF can take on many meanings and they all do NOT implicate town.

are you not town?

[Aristeia]

still think its Ari/Skitter maybe eyes and yeet

I think Dats just thinks he's a better player than he really is and doesn't want his friend voted out.

you misread me last time we played what makes you think you got any better this game?

[Aristeia]

Do you really think its not ok for Datisi to repeat his viewpoint to another player in the game who might not have read his point earlier since this is a large theme that is moving very quickly?

[Aristeia]

mathblade why do you even think I am mafia?

[Aristeia]

large theme

uh, you know something that i don't?

it pains me to say, math might actually be right on this one front though, i may be a hypocrite >_>

no i just said the wrong game type. my point is that this game is large and moving quickly.

[Aristeia]

you are such a qt <3

[Aristeia]

still think its Ari/Skitter maybe eyes and yeet

I think Dats just thinks he's a better player than he really is and doesn't want his friend voted out.

you misread me last time we played what makes you think you got any better this game?

I'm not sure if we have ever played together on this account. If you are talking about mini 2258 then it was House and Dats that I thought were scum, not you. Unless you are like a House alt. And ITG I was town/null reading you and even defended you in 1618. Was I misreading you then?

mm I guess I misremembered - you wanted Datisi dead not me in 2258.

[Aristeia]

House is permabanned.

I know that im just saying that I don't remember playing with this alt and that the only game that I do remember is a game where i was calling house and dats scum not her and dats. So either she is talking about another game or she's is wrong or lying.

ok but you were still wrong so ^_^

[Aristeia]

mathblade why do you even think I am mafia?

I have already stated why.

Monkey made a good case in the PT.
I find it compelling and would rather he explain it than I.
I also find you unwilling to vote or push where scum likely are scum indicative.

except you literally saw me do this as town in the last game we played together so uh why is it scum indicative?

you know we play the game and hunt for scum differently.

[Aristeia]

mathblade why do you even think I am mafia?

I have already stated why.

Monkey made a good case in the PT.
I find it compelling and would rather he explain it than I.
I also find you unwilling to vote or push where scum likely are scum indicative.

except you literally saw me do this as town in the last game we played together so uh why is it scum indicative?

you know we play the game and hunt for scum differently.

Because in this game you’re doing that and defending people performing scum tells
And the instant I came in it’s negativity.

I have to fight to fucking breathe
Then I get yelled at for breathing

I don't think I've yelled at you this game

I asked you which player you srd on the hem wagon because i happen to tr them

Your response was to vote me?

[Aristeia]

mathblade you might not have figured this out yet

but scum want to work with you

[Aristeia]

if im scum i just cooperate with you because you will help me push lots of townies dead for ???reasons

[Aristeia]

like the last game we played together

iv/andres spent the entire game "cooperating" with you

[Aristeia]

if im scum i just cooperate with you because you will help me push lots of townies dead for ???reasons

You’re assuming there’s an implicit bias I am wrong in that Ari. That’s what I hate about it.

well i know for a fact you are wrong about my alignment because i know i am town.

[Aristeia]

What would scum do if I am right Ari?

I am town so I know you are wrong

[Aristeia]

no my open to you was "which player on the hem wagon do you scumread? lets talk about it "

[Aristeia]

What would scum do if I am right Ari?

I am town so I know you are wrong

I was pushing Wu not you at first

What does a scum Wu team do?

Either ignore you or bus if theres traction probably.

[Aristeia]

I'm around here rn:

order doesn't really matter.

Town:

MalcolmTucker
Datisi
mathblade
monkey
skitter30
fireisredsir
Nero Cain
VP Baltar
Aristeia
Cape90
Yeet

null
Save The Dragons
Frogsterking
fua
tenebrousluminary

scummy
Scorpious
DeasVail
Eyes without a face
GeneralWu

[Aristeia]

he fits more into the scummy by not doing anything bucket, i feel better about fuas chances of flipping scum than wu but I wouldn't be opposed to voting for wu.

[Aristeia]

The more misrep that happens the scummier it is.
The more convinced I am Ari is scum.

Pretty straight forward.

Okay when did your scumread of Wu start?

how am i misrepping you?

[Aristeia]

Save The Dragons, Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
---
April Ludgate, Vanilla Townie

i am shocked

SHOCKED I TELL YOU

i was 1000000% sure ari was the traitor and that she was repeatedly softing to me

my darling I wish I was your traitor and I think I will always be aligned with you regardless of my role pm


Thank you for modding Mizzy/TW - the flavor was excellent and it was a joy to play and watch your game.

[Aristeia]

Congrats to the Scum Team.

I felt the setup was slightly to moderately townsided on balance and you did an amazing job in playing your roles for a win.

[Aristeia]

I'm glad I had to rep out because my reads were absolutely awful.

<3 you Dats

[Aristeia]

I think all of Frogster/Galron/Eyes slots were very elimmable off just dayplay and if town had focussed on that without any mech considerations they should've won this game.

[Aristeia]

For the people talking about balance negatively do you think this game was particularly egregious or just symptomatic of where NRG balance is at? If I can make games that still hit what the NRG wants but also feel fairer to the players then I want to do that.

In general I am not a big fan of strong mech guilties as it detracts from the dayplay element of the game.

Vig/Masons is 3 slots that can self-conftown fairly reliably

with a doctor in the mix, mafia cannot confident kill them at night as they do not have a strongman.

I feel the game was mechanically very skewed against scum as scum shot PRs every single night - Mason, Doctor, Psych, TA, Mason, Vig and still barely won with a [3/7 cleared pool] and very little room to breathe.

There should be some allowance built into the game where scum can miss and hit a vt and still win.

[Aristeia]

I think all of Frogster/Galron/Eyes slots were very elimmable off just dayplay and if town had focussed on that without any mech considerations they should've won this game.

this is kind of a very bad argument because if town really played "without any mech considerations", they would've elim'd through two masons and a vigilante.

Mech considerations such as vig/mason and psych results are not the same thing however.

[Aristeia]

there was supposed to be a (2) there^^ as a point of hood being outed early

i mean like i get that 5 scum in a 19p game is a lot of social influence (and it is definitely my fault for heavily misreading who the traitor is) but the town's mechanical counterplay just turns the game into... i dunno, feeling suffocating.

maybe mountainous really is the way idk

maybe you just wanted to be mafia with me <3

[Aristeia]

I'm always shocked anyone can think I am mafia :<

[Aristeia]

i manage to scumread ari even when i am scum >_>

you just wanted me to be on your team <3

[Aristeia]

I thought you played a very dashing game Boon