Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Dunnstral]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

[Ginngie]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

THIS BOTHERED ME SO MUCH LMAO

No literally a MUP player with a N3 doctor flips at night and everyone wonders what possibly could have happened.

[jjh927]

Oh btw JJH there was in fact a 4th skill tree but it was scrapped in set up. Basically there would have been alignment changers and a bunch of other busted roles with it's own PT to chat in. However that was scrapped because I decided to remove alignment changes this game.

Yeah in my head I was picturing

Bastard Tree
1-shot Strongman
1-shot Redirect
1-shot Engineer

with an alignment changer as the 4th tier.

Scum could have alternatively had a different engineer that unlocks a different more negative utility ability but still blocks the 'true' upgrade from occurring in the future

[Yume]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

THIS BOTHERED ME SO MUCH LMAO

No literally a MUP player with a N3 doctor flips at night and everyone wonders what possibly could have happened.

MUP player?

[jjh927]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

THIS BOTHERED ME SO MUCH LMAO

No literally a MUP player with a N3 doctor flips at night and everyone wonders what possibly could have happened.

lmao I completely missed that

Tbh though I kinda just stopped caring about how it happened because it didn't ultimately mean anything

[Yume]

By the way Yume-

At some points I absolutely was manipulating you. That's not inherently mafia play for me; if I'm trying to convince a player who is more emotionally driven than logical, then it's just the better tool for persuasion. I felt like you got a lot better at about day 4 and I let you do your thing at that point- you were less afraid to reach conclusions and that's a really good thing you can work on to improve as a player. If I had admitted in the game I was manipulating you though, I don't think you'd ever have been able to release the paranoia.

I never did my own thing, not really. It was you and mastina who were the solvers, while I supported you.

[Ginngie]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

THIS BOTHERED ME SO MUCH LMAO

No literally a MUP player with a N3 doctor flips at night and everyone wonders what possibly could have happened.

MUP player?

Basically you're forced to use your abilities in a certain order, instead of being able to pick them like a regular JOAT

[Shiro]

ngl game was kinda unwinnable for scum

The scum tree should have been used with a reviver that makes teh revived scum as last option

[Shiro]

that they can even pretend to have gone the mage tree

[jjh927]

Just to note, as much as I am criticising the setup balance, my approach to design in upicks is that I take several billion years to design them and keep putting it off week by week by clumsily stating that I'm almost done until eventually I have something I think is balanced- so it's still very cool that you produced an enjoyable game and did so in a reasonable timeframe. Also, I do recall running a upick where everyone had all 3 of their picks in some form, with 2 of them getting unlocked for people when they completed various conditions occurring in the game, and it was a fucking nightmare to design/mod, so props on this

[Enchant]

what would you describe something to be fucked in a funny way for you, I jest but at the end of the day if you didn't have fun that's a failure on my part.

As i said if you fix errors, game can blown up.

I have to be honest I need something more specific.

Basics:
1. Don't let town waltz in bulletproofs. You know, better get other form of protection, protection of this type overall bad.
2. Make more cooperations. What in point in engineers, if you can upgrade self? Again bulletproofs, let town be cooperative fucks atleast or fail hilariously and help mafia instead. Doctor for example is balanced.
3. Probably make more skilltree with "impossible" combinations, where you can only choose one thing. Limits combos, but more balancable. But it turns game in twisted RPG.
4. Stop giving town cookies, i personally hurt when game balance influenced by outside forces. Makes win bitter and lose even more.
5. Don't make game in just another work, where you need copy and paste for rewards. If you have problems with challenge, ask to help with them, i understand they are hard to design.
6. This game needed more explosions.
7. Of course making broken balance is intended probably, but... What point in playing was then?

Honestly you need normal game designer for this, while i have moderation expireince, it's not big and i can't tell in details.

[jjh927]

This had all the makings of lolbalance but wasn't swingy enough and ended up just being townsided, basically

[Ginngie]

At some point in the set up thread I did take what you said about challenges to heart and mentioned this to Jingle. Kinda funny that my idea to fix it is still a mechanic you dont like lol

Spoiler: @Enchant

Also reviewing challenges. I think what I'll do is make mini games that you can play along with. I think the incentive to do the challenge is so high, that a player feels forced to do it, and then feels trapped by the constrictions.

I noticed I gave out a dollar last game for people that posted a song in the thread. That's more fun and relaxing which is the vibe I'm going for and may have missed.

I love making mistakes, it makes me want to do so much better and I dont want to stop until I've gotten it perfected and can just spread mass joy through modding.

I may get defensive during initial reactions but I usually take it to heart when I read anything about a player not enjoying the game.

[Yume]

So in the next upick
I will probably be picking characters from a certain book series. Robb FTW!

[Dunnstral]

I don't like that every single challenge was a post restriction

[Roden]

Roden is 3rd party

Epic play Roden

Told you the 1v1 was a bad idea.

I never tried to eliminate you man

You literally told everyone to vote me out lmao

No, no I didn't.

Not sure why you're arguing this, the game's over. You pushed me in the main thread and made your intentions clear in the hood that you wanted me gone and that you were going to 1v1 me.

[Yume]

Also, ironically, mastina and I were masons. We just didn't know it.

[Yume]

Sorry for rambling, but I have so much wild energy.

[Roden]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

I was already getting voted out for lying, admitting that I lied doesn't change that outcome.

[jjh927]

By the way Yume-

At some points I absolutely was manipulating you. That's not inherently mafia play for me; if I'm trying to convince a player who is more emotionally driven than logical, then it's just the better tool for persuasion. I felt like you got a lot better at about day 4 and I let you do your thing at that point- you were less afraid to reach conclusions and that's a really good thing you can work on to improve as a player. If I had admitted in the game I was manipulating you though, I don't think you'd ever have been able to release the paranoia.

I never did my own thing, not really. It was you and mastina who were the solvers, while I supported you.

On day 4, Mastina and I were both directly opposed. I did end up backing off, but you were actively looking at both of us and trying to make a decision, and your decision in that day phase was to vote neither of us. That was correct.

[Enchant]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

I was already getting voted out for lying, admitting that I lied doesn't change that outcome.

Actually it's true.

[jjh927]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

I was already getting voted out for lying, admitting that I lied doesn't change that outcome.

Yes it does. I was literally anticipating exactly that. Town would be able to just admit the lie and say it was for a 3p wincon and worth a try. It was entirely because you didn't admit that you lied that I couldn't go to bat for you and ultimately just voted you out.

[Ginngie]

1. Don't let town waltz in bulletproofs. You know, better get other form of protection, protection of this type overall bad.
2. Make more cooperations. What in point in engineers, if you can upgrade self? Again bulletproofs, let town be cooperative fucks atleast or fail hilariously and help mafia instead. Doctor for example is balanced.
3. Probably make more skilltree with "impossible" combinations, where you can only choose one thing. Limits combos, but more balancable. But it turns game in twisted RPG.
4. Stop giving town cookies, i personally hurt when game balance influenced by outside forces. Makes win bitter and lose even more.
5. Don't make game in just another work, where you need copy and paste for rewards. If you have problems with challenge, ask to help with them, i understand they are hard to design.
6. This game needed more explosions.
7. Of course making broken balance is intended probably, but... What point in playing was then?

Honestly you need normal game designer for this, while i have moderation expireince, it's not big and i can't tell in details.

1. yeah it was actually a giant fuck up that I included bulletproofs to be unlocked super early so I really I agree with you here.
2. I was very liberal with who could be upgraded with engineer because I wanted to make sure everyone could play their role to the full potential and not have it be wasted.
3. I think a huge missed opportunity was giving scum their own skill tree. I honestly would have implemented a skill tree similar to what JJH posted but I just didn't think of it sadly.
4. In regular games yeah I wouldn't do this, however this particular game I run I do it because for lolreasons. I gotta be honest that wont change but what will is advertising my games to explicitly to be taken seriously or not to be taken seriously and to play for shits.
5. Also challenges were another example of adding too many mechanics instead of focusing on a select few. JJH was a demon tho with challenges literally breaking every challenge and I gotta give props to him for that. Also yeah they were hard, but that was also the point, there were 9 players but only one participated the final day. That was on purpose to gatekeep how much XP was in play.
6. I agree. I actually think I made the game too normal and felt like a regular game of role maddness. I didn't see a lot of interactions that were spectacular which I'll be shooting for in a future upick.
7. When you've been playing mafia for 10 plus years, at some point it's nice to just play a game where you dont have to care. That's the point of the upicks. Pooky had the best mentality for this game of saying I dont trust shit what the mod says and do shit for the lolz. Again it may not make sense, but this style of game is tailored for that mentality.

[Yume]

By the way Yume-

At some points I absolutely was manipulating you. That's not inherently mafia play for me; if I'm trying to convince a player who is more emotionally driven than logical, then it's just the better tool for persuasion. I felt like you got a lot better at about day 4 and I let you do your thing at that point- you were less afraid to reach conclusions and that's a really good thing you can work on to improve as a player. If I had admitted in the game I was manipulating you though, I don't think you'd ever have been able to release the paranoia.

I never did my own thing, not really. It was you and mastina who were the solvers, while I supported you.

On day 4, Mastina and I were both directly opposed. I did end up backing off, but you were actively looking at both of us and trying to make a decision, and your decision in that day phase was to vote neither of us. That was correct.

Well, tbh, I was considering voting you today, but mastina changed that decision.

[Dunnstral]

Roden is 3rd party

Epic play Roden

Told you the 1v1 was a bad idea.

I never tried to eliminate you man

You literally told everyone to vote me out lmao

No, no I didn't.

Not sure why you're arguing this, the game's over. You pushed me in the main thread and made your intentions clear in the hood that you wanted me gone and that you were going to 1v1 me.

I mean

That isn't me saying to eliminate you

I have to defend myself somehow, I can't argue that you're town who isn't playing to their main win condition