Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Frozen Angel]

I intend to participate in the challenge.

Morning all. I missed you all when I was away from this website <3

I don't know who some of the people in this game even are.

I guess not knowing someone doesn't mean you don't understand them.

I realized we have people pushed to L2 and intent of hammer. what does that suppose to mean on page 5 of the game when most of the players haven't even check-in?

1

[Frozen Angel]

Dunn, I don't want to talk mechanics. Talk people. Who do you want to work with this game. Same to you jjh.

Who do you think would help me improve as a player? Who do you think I struggle to read?

3

this post earns some early town points. Liked the mechanic talk switch to player analysis.

Mastina looks too forced and its not about her post restriction of saying I am town in every post. She feels struggling to fit in a persona her role requires and I find the attidue forced.

Also need to say that I'm not gonna vote for a reason till I have something resolved.

2

[Frozen Angel]

GeTtInG rId Of ThE rEsTrIcTiOn

wait was this a slip?

[Frozen Angel]

Oh, my posting restriction isn't a 4-thing, it's an "over half" thing. I am town, but I need to say that often. It's worth it tho, at least imo.

over half means you must say that in half of your posts or something bad happens?

[Frozen Angel]

lol if nobody targets me on night one and mafia dont have a roleblocker ill be conftown tomm

if this was true why would you outright claim it?

[Frozen Angel]

I think mastina is not a mason.

1

I agree.

1

[Frozen Angel]

Sorry guys that I haven't been super active in game. It's persian new years and I'm Persian so next few days is just gonna be hectic for me a bit (visiting family and stuff)

Reinhardt vote on dunnstral looks bad, not cause it looks random, but cause they don't seem to have any minset to solve with it (the game is still so let's do more in RVS?) doesn't seem like they want to start a conversation just to be voting somewhere.

I don't think I get why Gypyx is getting voted. is there something going on in a hood that we don't know here about regarding that?

mastina looks more legit with their claim the more I look at the whole picture of what they hinted at and mentioned so far. Gotta keep an eye on them (Just analyzing them mechanically there) however.

Also mod I didn't know that I had to mention retry in bold again, but I failed the challenge once as I completely forgot it existed before so I was by default retrying. Nothing was written anywhere we have to announce again so I hope it still counts.

see you all later.

2

[Frozen Angel]

The Gypyx wagon sounds very unsettling to me, not cause I town read the slot but cause it lacks any sort of actual pressure or conversation and how "out of nowhere" it was formed

Shiroooooooooo my best hydra partner <3 can you share some early reads and your feelings about your neighbors?

3

[Frozen Angel]

Reinhardt: game is stall, lets vote and make convo

same person park vote on dunnestral saying cause its only wagon existing he can support

doesn't clarify why, doesn't ask a question, doesn't even engage with the slot = was pretty much just a RVS vote ...


typical lazy scum act or just a lazy town, it's still one of the stuff to note and keep in mind. Will become a meaningful read when you see a pattern of behavior/actions and reactions in thread.

Why do you think it's a bad reason to FoS someone or do you just find dunn shipping it bad as it's somehow about his own slot?

4

[Frozen Angel]

AlSo I'm StIlL oN vAcAtIoN cAuSe Of PeRsIaN nEw YeAr HoLiDaYs BuT i'M nOt V/lA aNd I dO mY bEsT tO sTaY cOuGhT uP

5

[Frozen Angel]

prod dodge

1

[Frozen Angel]

I have been sneaking in game and following conversations here and there. This next week I'm on a trip so I'm not really "here" to be as active as I am usually in a game of mafia for personal reasons. But I have a role that fits my personality so much and fits the character I chose so much that I just can't pass on the game so you'll have to accept my apology for sticking in this game.

I will die. I mean at some point in game it just gonna happen but I wont tell when nor I will explain how and why. so I'm not sure if upgrading me in any way is the best idea unless if somehow magically upgrading my role keeps me alive which I don't think is the case.

For most part this game is filled with mechanics talks and not people making conversations and pushing people for their read making. I don't see much of a "why you have that read that makes no sense because you said this and that" or "why would you get from here to there" stuff. mechanics talk don't solve slots. they help to a point guiding actions but if its all we do we will end up nowhere

Let me start with a question

Frozen Angel and Yume is people i am confortable to kill.

Out of all slots in game you decided to name me and yume slot which were pretty much nonexistent. why do I feel this is manufactured cause titus said this earlier?

Frozen Angel - Would compromise vote at EoD but get an icky feeling when thinking about doing it
Yume - Same as FA

[Frozen Angel]

And no. You will not hammer anyone when we have so much time left in day 1 when we have 20 pages of almost nothing as no slot been doing close to any work to solve the game in public

I feel like there had been a lot of activity in hoods and Thats so anti town in this sense that it hides major information for solving slots hidden. On other hands, we have no insurance that hoods are safe as we have no list of people who can read those chats.

so not sure why would you make mechanical plans in a hood and push it through in thread in this manner and if it was a good idea or not. I find the intention town motivated however

3

pedit: Did you even bother to ISO me or did you just decide to mention me as your suspect cause titus did?

[Frozen Angel]

And no. You will not hammer anyone

It's just started, already funny.

Also, i didn't want to push it in thread, i just achieved highest level of frustration, because Titus is impossible to reason.

About ISO, actually yes, but it's funny to see from person who prodges.

3

Well I'm on vacation, holidays, persian new year holidays as I'm Iranian. I'll be home next week. Yesterday I've been to Dastak, a small city north of Iran. Had a 1 meter long kebab. 4 hour driving to go there and 4 hour to come back but it was so worth it. then we went on a boat in Anzali port and went sightseeing for 2 hours earlier today. 100% recommended. so yeah I prod dodged

My question was how you got to that kill list out of all solvable slots and to understand why you waited for titus to announce they might be persuaded for them before you announce it in thread? now I must ask, how is this coming form the person who prod dodges is funny? like are you laughing now or should others laugh to it? is it because idk, people who prod dodge are funny? or did you find something funny in my ISO in particular that was funny?

regarding my ISO again, I only prod dodged once and already discussed about of several important game trends and events in my earlier posts when I had time to make a post and there is only one prod dodge in particular in my ISO. So how do you only remember me only by my prod dodge if you did ISO me and how do you find me asking about it funny?

[Frozen Angel]

SoRrY fOr BoMbInG yOu WiTh QuEsTiOnS

5

[Frozen Angel]

You didnt have same mind though. she said she will hate herself but might vote at eod. You just went outright to kill us right afterward. feels interesting as she was pressuring you.

and no I didn't go vla. I was following game and taking some small notes. There is nothing interesting in my iso doesn't equal to me only prod dodging. There is nothing sortable in my iso as I have not been engaged much in real time conversations, doesn't mean I haven't been following the game.

you still didn't answer why you decided to go after "non existant slots" so suddenly there. you were in middle of an actual discussion with other slots but you just decided to switch. where did this come from?

[Frozen Angel]

Was ISOing enchant and a bunch of others

We discussing how mages are better than snakes thiefs and brute warriors.

And also mechtalking, we have good ideas to implement.


ACCEPT MAGE SUPREMACY.

3

I thinked about bulletproofs and what i say.

Firstly: It's obvious ACTIVE ability. It means, you need to activate it at one night to become bulletproof for exact night. I don't think mod will even allows everyone to get "One-Shot Imunnity".
Second: If Mod really allows everyone to get "One-Shot Immunity", then consider that we are in fantasy setting. How the fuck bulletproof protect from knife, sword, crossbow bolt and... Well you get idea.
Third: Everyone can buy from any three. But supreme tree is Mage one.

4

You realize when there is a miller, there is a cop, so you being actively pushing toward mage tree is actually anti town? Sneak tree also adds ninja to people, its not like you can choose when you become miller or ninja so Its almost obvious to me that bullet proof is like that as well.

1 shot passive miller means you're a miller till you're checked or that is how I perceived it just like how I assumed a 1 shot bullet proof means immunity against 1 kill unless strongmaned.

so why no one asks for clarifications?

@MOD How does these 1 shot skills work?

Regardless of this answer unless if you need to go on other trees, going for anything that can mess up an investigation is directly anti town. advertising it in thread like this is even worse

2

[Frozen Angel]

My mind

LLD fakeclaiming just to kill Pooky. Real masons mostly care to not reveal self, because main advantage of having Masonry is ability to quickhammer everyone outside.
If you are fakeclaiming as town, then first it's not helping, second, if you need fakeclaiming to convince, then you are poor player overall and why even i need to listen to you?

If you are scum, well. Nice try.

4

Why would two scum claim maosnized in day 1? That puts hard POE on them. the moment one dies another gets obvious too. Why would you do that if you're scum?

Worst case they are just neighbors claiming mason cause of a strong bound. No town mindset can actually reach this conclusion that a mason claim is probably coming from scum this early in day 1. Thats not solving. that's throwing shade.

Then there is this:

Enchant, can we take a step back here and discuss what is actually griping you at the moment rather than calling people useless?

What is your precise issue

4

Alright so.
I have day ability to grant 0.50XP.

Titus asked to give XP to her, because she lazy to perform challenge. I agreed.
After she asked me to stop "blackmailing" Gypix in giving XP, which i planned to waste on engineer with Shiro help. On my question "Why" i received "Not ProTown Bah, how Gypix will be upgraded if he gives XP?"

I am not understanding if this is briliant stupidity, but Gypix NEED to give XP to get upgraded at first place. And if he doesh't give XP, then he sits uselessly with XP. That's all. I even suggested plan which consist on both Gypix and Titus retrying challenge, so we could afford two engineer shots.

"Blah blah it doesh't change anything and stupid".

So now i refusing to give her XP and she mad, trying to pressure me with votes.
It will not work.

Either you both retrying challenge and actually effort, or i giving XP on Shiro. If she perform same stupidity, i give it to Mastina for my amusement.

This whole lot is a bunch of mechanical fluff for me. it seems to me you're trying to blackmail a town read for giving out some exp away with prolonging it.

"yeah I can give it to you dont need to do challenge"
"Yeah lets coordinate it so it goes in a way two people get benefits"

when in reality the whole thing is just so tiny. if it was from a town mind set I would just expect you to give away this to your strongest townread. Its not something for bargain. Its a utility. This act of bargain makes me suspicious of enchant intentions.

This plus their mentioning yume and me the way they did last night, the build up they did is just opportunistic.

VOTE: Enchant

pedit: first action you do is Ninja. why would you want to hide from possible trackers? that's pretty anti town. tracker has no use for a scum in a role madness game. its just a town utility. Ninja here is just blatant anti town utility.

3

[Frozen Angel]

How would a ninja active work here?

There is literally no way.

Same with miller

so I'm almost sure bulletproof is passive too.

it just suggests town has Vig, mafia has strong man and all first three utility in these trees are anti town utilities. in some sense.

4

[Frozen Angel]

No U

5

[Frozen Angel]

shade-throwing, being opportunistic, typical scummy stuff.

I feel like you have not been solving the game. You used your dsy utility for bargain. and your reads on masons just make no sense from a town mind set. Your mentioning me and yume last night after getting pushed by titus and them mentioning us as the least active slots is the opportunistic part.

Have you actually tried to solve any slots so far in game - maybe in your neighborhood?
cause I cant see much in here between all your posts

1

[Frozen Angel]

so I'm almost sure bulletproof is passive too.

Dream more.

2

I'm more of a game mod than a player. Symmetry in design is just the key to somewhat balance a role madness. You don't make 2 anti town utility as first skill of 2 trees and then add a protown utility on third.

Thats why I think its symmetric. all three first skills passive, activate automatically on first occasion they are needed making all three anti town as we probably have fire power, tracker cop and mafia has strongman

wild setup guesses.

Not sure why would you want to push for miller in this kind of setup and advertise it however, as by your logic if its active , 1 shot active bullet proof is stronger than 1 shot doctor for town as its guaranteed to hit town.

2

[Frozen Angel]

Mod allowing game where everyone can buy bulletproof at first night?

Of course. If so, then mafia have unlimited strongman and buying bulletproof is useless. But why add useless component in game? To prevent Vig? Okay, why Vig exist then?

Exactly.

1

why cop and tracker would exist in game if everyone get miller or ninja?

so then you might argue that they wont exist

then what will

exactly

You acting surprised when more than one player want you dead is strange.

I'm not stressed or surprised at all. I said before that I can die at some point in game on my own so lynching me is pretty much anti town to even pursue. and even if I wouldn't die no one would dare lynch me the moment I claim.

Not that it matters anyway

I'm a very good solver specially when people go after me. It allows me to make these kind of conversation with people to sort them. Titus shiro dunn and many others who remember my play style should know that

Also the way you use your skill means everything. Ofcourse its a valid place to form a read. Why would you even promise titus that if you don't town read the slot? Its not like there was a mechanical reason there. you promised a slot you don't town read that they can just deny challenge as you can gift them the exp regardless. Why would you do that if your read is not a town lean?

So here we are

3

[Frozen Angel]

How would a ninja active work here?

There is literally no way.

Same with miller

so I'm almost sure bulletproof is passive too.

it just suggests town has Vig, mafia has strong man and all first three utility in these trees are anti town utilities. in some sense.

4

Active use Ninja is a real thing, like active use strongman or janitor. Active use miller is not a real thing. Bulletproof is usually passive, but upon consideration I could see that being an active ability as well.

Thats good if its active.

That means no one will ever use ninja if they are town so less anti town utility there you can just act like it doesn't exist to not mess a town track up (and scum track means almost nothing its a role madness game)

that's why I thought its probably some sort of passive like how miller is. if it isn't then good. changes nothing about what I mentioned so far in any way.

4

[Frozen Angel]

No U

[Frozen Angel]

Where did I say you're scum because you mentioned me in specific or that I am town cause I reacted to that

I had a very well explained concern with you mentioning "two slots" (doesn't matter I am there - in that context and in the way you did and it didn't settle well by me as it felt like you're budding the slot pushing you to depressure and redirect their attention.

I just said it, I dont care about your read on me. Players' reads on me in this game doesn't matter.

--------------

No about the mechanics. The whole discussion over it is 100% wifom. I also agree and said that those two are anti town utility I just said ninja being active makes it lesser anti town utility as town can decide to not use it. and my argument was that these skill all being passive makes sense from a design perspective.

But that doesn't matter

What matters is you pushing for mage tree in spite of your bleif that BP is active. If BP is active you can save a town (you if you are town). Doictor is on another slot. and then advertising it to everyone else.

Its just a paradox. You want a town slot saved by going toward both trees yea? You dont want your slot saved but another however that you wont know if they are town or mafia. This makes this whole thing nonesensical from any perspectives.

If you were under this belief that its a passive like me, sure, you want the active doctor over the passive 1 shot BP, sure. But you think it's not. How can you explain this paradox?

1

[Frozen Angel]

That is extremely naive to not even consider the possibility of town tracker/watcher/cop existence seeing how those ninja and miller stuff are thrown in the mess. The entire "planning" for that tree should be done in a way to give us most benefits with least damage caused. Thats how town mindset looks at it

I don't think you have such mindset.

2

[Frozen Angel]

Let's calm down and talk normally. Well maybe you are calm Idk.

Why me pursuing mage tree damages town, expect for me being Miller?
I agree that Mage ability is not best in the world, but i believe hidden ability should compensate that.

3

So I wasnt saying you persuing mage tree for yourself damages town. I was just pointing out how advertising mage tree as best tree is anti town in general. and I was arguing how contradictory it is for you to pursue for doctor over bullet proof when you're insisting the BP is active.

but Yeah this is a good argument from you, "hidden ability" compensates for these anti town utilities. I think it might benefit town overall if we just spread and pursue those skills.

I personally believe, we need to all claim on which tree we're gonna work on and we need to spread out - with the majority going for warrior tree to reduce possible anti-town ness mechanical wise unless if there is a fear about it having a negative impact (claiming the tree you wanna pursue) but I cant think of any right now

3

[Frozen Angel]

Shiro happy noises because FA is town

3/5

Hoi shiro

whats your current read on titus, LLD and enchant?

4

[Frozen Angel]

No U

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

PookyTheBear - 3 (LLD, Titus, mastina) E -4

to

PookyTheBear - 7 (LLD, Titus, mastina, Reinhardt, Gypyx, Dunnstral, PookyTheMagicalBear) ELIMINATION

was scum driven imo. I actually hard suspect "Reinhardt, Gypyx, Dunnstral" these three has a scum at least for the way it was built - to go after a vengeful claim in a setup with bp drop everywhere.

haven't read day 2 at all and cant do so today or tomorrow

I think there is almost no chance we can break this set up mechanically. You guys all need to stop just persuing that and start making actual conversations about players playing.

I will participate in the challenge

1

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I'm back home and I will be way more annoying and active starting tomorrow so fasten your seat belts

Has anyone else noticed how shadows enchant was today?

So Gypix is loved. I missed who are they loved with? as that part should be important when we're considering getting them killed? But I don't find that slot in particular towny at all

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I also want to investigate something as well.

It seems to me that the dunnstral slot vote was the worst in yesterday wagon on poky as he was not going to push the slot for information or his suspect. He also hide information from us about something in sneak neighborhood when it became such a hard debate in mid day 1 in game that could have been very important mechanically otherwise. Then they claimed it at start of night to ask us for a help with something. that behavior just made no sense to me. if he was with a town mindset seeking for assistance there was no reason to hide that info earlier. if he was with scum mindset however, maybe he thought that the way game progressed made that move more believable so he went with it? - this is all me thinking out load at this point. I just need to work on that slot a little closer.

pedit: oooof loved. not the lover. I understand and can see it

Sorry for being so dusted. I have been away from these games for quiet some time hehe

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Enchant's content seems fine this day? Been fairly active and contributing plenty?

Only content they posted was questioning about titus logic against gyp to understand whats happening.

what content are you actually talking about?

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Guess more slots were like that however to be fair. I only checked enchant and dunn and like 2 other players iso anyway. Need to focus more on this game when I had some proper sleep

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

VOTE: Enchant

what do you think about me and why not say it instead of testing the waters?

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I think you are nuisanse and didn't deserve townread.

1

being annoying to scum is a talent.

being town-read is another.

Interestingly that was what was I saying about you. That you don't deserve any town read others gave to you as you made literally 0 progress in-game toward solving anything so far. Would be interesting to see you casing your read on me for a change and I'll support you for doing it.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

There is literally 0 reads in your entire ISO

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Pointless exercise. As again, you appear fast when someone mention your existance.
Let's talk about it next day.

If i or you will be alive still of course.

2

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

If you missed it I came back home last night. maybe its just your amazing timing to question about me without dropping any reads before I could come online today that granted my vote.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Hi Shiro

What's your and your hoods general read (if there was discussions about it) on people who voted for poky last day and the way it was pushed later in day?

I'm interested to know if people been discussing about this in private or not at least if you don't mind sharing that part and if you don't wanna share details about the discussions in your hood.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Pointless exercise. As again, you appear fast when someone mention your existance.
Let's talk about it next day.

If i or you will be alive still of course.

2

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

If you missed it I came back home last night. maybe its just your amazing timing to question about me without dropping any reads before I could come online today that granted my vote.

Ok and?

3

and?

same question I asked shiro

what do you think about the poky wagon?

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

What you mean he has no access to his original hood?

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

My role pm is only for one character, not two.

I'm trying to be useful in this game, but I just can't have townreads. Like I'm trying so so hard to read ISO and say yeah I feel good about this slot and I cant.

It's insane how I don't have any solid town lean/read at this stage of the game for my standards. Everyone only talks about mechanics. The person I push just vanishes over pushing my slot. and my other suspect replaces out. My other suspect (dunn) refuses to even make a comment about my fos here or in the neighborhood and everyone else I asked about analyzing yesterday's wagon, just outright ignored my questions.

Guess half the game happening behind closed doors in hoods is not helping at all.

So yeah, I'm not sure what to do with this game at this point.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I also want to investigate something as well.

It seems to me that the dunnstral slot vote was the worst in yesterday wagon on poky as he was not going to push the slot for information or his suspect. He also hide information from us about something in sneak neighborhood when it became such a hard debate in mid day 1 in game that could have been very important mechanically otherwise. Then they claimed it at start of night to ask us for a help with something. that behavior just made no sense to me. if he was with a town mindset seeking for assistance there was no reason to hide that info earlier. if he was with scum mindset however, maybe he thought that the way game progressed made that move more believable so he went with it? - this is all me thinking out load at this point. I just need to work on that slot a little closer.

pedit: oooof loved. not the lover. I understand and can see it

Sorry for being so dusted. I have been away from these games for quiet some time hehe

This is why I suspect the slot (and one other thing I don't wanna share in public)

I also don't suspect them enough to outright claim what was the info they hide in day 1.

But yeah I feel like that move makes more sense from a scum mindset than a suspecting town mindset.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I suspect based on a combination of my unfathomable levels of information and setup spec that means you might be able to be upgraded twice

If it's true then maybe one of them saves my life.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

If you want to talk, i kinda regained my composure, but i feel it's better to keep for next day.

1

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

Sure I ask

What's your read on people in your hood. and please talk about poky wagon and late votes on it afterward if you can.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

Is there anything you've considered outside of the vote? I feel like Dunn has been doing a fair bit with reads in general to be quite honest

The hidden mechanical thing is likely irrelevant; I have my suspicions as to what it is and I believe I likely indicated in day 1 that I could very easily have done the exact same thing

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

well my read on dunn slot is null (slight scum lean) at best if I want to classify -

I just found his playstyle a bit forced in day 1 while ISOing him and that vote drop was awful IMO. his presence in day 1 and hiding that info, might not be scum motivated but he could clarify it in sneak neighborhood as well which had less people listening if he was intended to claim it in there anyway at start of the night phase.

There is also one other thing which ain't a guilty in no way but just made me look at the slot again, that sneak neighborhood knows it but ain't sharing that reason in public chat for reasons. that's very small though, no need to discuss or pursue it really as nothing comes out of it and its wifom at best.

[Frozen Angel]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I in particular find this reaction forced for example.

This game seems a little stagnant, and while I'm not in a state to focus on things here currently, I would at least like to move things along so when I am in the mood things will be more active.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Out of the existing votes, this is the one I like the most. I don't really get the issue about scum knowing or not knowing certain things but the other votes either feel barely substantiated or are not ones I agree with.

4

This doesn't make sense

1

Reinhardt vote on dunnstral looks bad, not cause it looks random, but cause they don't seem to have any minset to solve with it (the game is still so let's do more in RVS?) doesn't seem like they want to start a conversation just to be voting somewhere.

I agree with this for Reinhardt

while I still find that Reinhardt vote one of the scummiest things that happened in game.

Like dunn practically called out a vote on their slot bad, shipped me, and then dropped it completely like it didn't happen and those two slots just split ways for the next of the day like nothing happened. dunn then votes shiro then yume and jumps on poky, basically low active, low active and then the majority wagon going down for exp.

I just cant see him "pushing himself" to solve. If you know what I mean.

[Frozen Angel]

I will participate

@dunnstral check and answer me in sneak tree now

[Frozen Angel]

Wait I just realized LLD is alive. I thought she died

You can thank me now for bringing LLD back and kindly remove your vote. ^_^

Why I don't believe you didn't know why she is back?

@Dwlee I need you to hard claim who did you target last night. As I have a potential guilty on you

2

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

I have to say this out loud now.

Ending this phase without my permission is an outright scum claim and should be treated as such.

We have important things to solve and check and I have important things to do.

1

[Frozen Angel]

reviving LLD doesnt mean Shiro is town or LLD is town after being revived.

But I have this information that titus is upgraded as I tried upgrading them and it didn't work. and yeah the engineer it could be used during the day

Anyways We have massive information getting processed in sneak tree as we speak so I'm asking you all for some time till we process the whole deal. We have potentially a hard guilty + 3p outing + possibility to find another hard guilty or clearing a slot.

2

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

PEdit: Yeah, Shiro also claimed that 3p wincon to me as well

as he is town but can turn 3p or that he is town with extra win condition or that he isn't town, just a good side 3p

I need to know this information.

and yes LLD is almost close to certainly town unless it gets revealed that shiro is secretly a cult leader or something and didn't use the mage ultimate unlike their claim. Not so weird considering we're in game with immortal people as they claim and so low night kill rate.

1

[Frozen Angel]

so I suggested to use it on FA in the last night phase.

What did they claim happened? Did they use it on my slot and was it successful or not?

2

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

I did literally nothing last night

Interesting

1

[Frozen Angel]

I did literally nothing last night

Interesting

1

I mean, it's true

yes it fits the result and your claiming that you role stopped (stronger role block in this game apparently - this name change is annoying) the slot.

2

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

I still have one.

I upgraded Titus and tried upgrading FA tonight hit couldn't.

Yes you couldn't as I tried and I couldn't upgrade myself anymore either.

pedit: there might be hard information getting revealed soon in thread about few slots alignment and actions that might change your decision about who to use exp on. We're still working on it in sneak tree

1

[Frozen Angel]

I have to repeat again even louder.

It's majorly important to not end this day phase early. Do not put anyone at E1 or E2. Simply hold off with voting yet.

We have so much information to reveal and I prefer to get this stuff sorted before the night phase

Any early wagoning and elimination is an outright scum claim. There are no buts for that.

2

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

I had some reservations for Dunn but today he is being 200% town sooo yea

Do not be so sure. There is at least 1 scum between roden and Dunnstral 100% confirmed and I'm heavy leaning on it being dunn mechanically. When roden is online again he'll explain here

1

[Frozen Angel]

@everyone

Important question:

Did anyone target me with anything last night? just say yes or no. I don't even need you to claim with what. I'm verifying a claim.

2

[Frozen Angel]

Not talking about engineer - I mean with any other night action not instant effect actions like engineer



3

[Frozen Angel]

Alright I cant wait for roden lol here is the deal. Fasten your seat belts as you might have to read the following text multiple times to understand it all.

I used an investigative action on Dwlee night 1 and I was blocked by a swarm of bat. Dwlee denied having any anti town utility that would stop my action, but later claimed that it was his role to be a ninja - ascetic of some sort to all investigative roles and the swarm of bats is his passive flavor but it had to happen when he would activate his 1 shot ninja that he didn't activate. Mod confirmed to me that there was a mod error today after dunn checked this with them was so I believe him on that part that he thought he isn't ninja night 1. This was why I was suspecting dunnestral mainly yesterday.

In process of investigating the swarm of bat and him being an auto ninja he claimed he is a vampire something.

Then Roden claimed to be a vampire hunter,

with this knowledge that vampires are not aligned with town

and can't be vigged immidiately after this info got out that dunn is a vampire instantly. He had to stop here if all he wanted was to get rid of a vampire but then he outright claimed that he is town but he has an extra wincondition to get at least 1 vampire killed in addition to removing all threats to town.

Now this has a small contradiction (and I just got what dunn meant in sneak tree while writing this tldr) as if vampires are not aligned with town then removing all threats to town would be same win condition. But roden didn't have to even mention that part, instead he was asking in sneak chat from dunn if he is a 3p a good 3p and if there are other vampires we can push so he would still fulfill his win condition and get a vampire killed.

roden has been flavor hunting for a long time now which consists of him wanting to get a special flavor killed. Neither he or Dunn claimed to be 3p. Both have scumminess surrounding their roles.

Both roden and dunn claimed their roles and actions in our chat as well now (well dun completely did, roden might have other stuff to claim). I will give them the courtesy to claim their roles themselves if they want to, or when we were pushing the slots as it's practically obvious that there is at least one scum between roden and dunnstral as roden said and insisted that vampires are not aligned with town and dunn insisted that he ain't 3p or evil and that he is town. Oh, and roden rejected my guess that he has a survival win con in addition to wanting a vig killed. he outright claimed town

Anyways this is not All the information. Regardless of your instincts I still have to ask you to make sure this day phase doesn't end fast. Do not put anyone on E1 or E2 till further notice.

1

[Frozen Angel]

which is consistent with him *

Idk what happened there. I see I have many typos hope that it's a readable text.

2

[Frozen Angel]

Let me fix that stupid post everything was about dunn not dwlee



3

[Frozen Angel]

Alright I cant wait for roden lol here is the deal. Fasten your seat belts as you might have to read the following text multiple times to understand it all.

I used an investigative action on Dunn night 1 and I was blocked by a swarm of bat. Dunn denied having any anti-town utility that would stop my action, but later claimed that it was his role to be a ninja - ascetic of some sort to all investigative roles, and the swarm of bats is his passive flavor but it had to happen when he would activate the 1 shot ninja that he didn't activate. Mod confirmed to me that there was a mod error today after dunn checked this with them so I believe him on that part that he thought he isn't ninja night 1. This was why I was suspecting dunnestral mainly yesterday.

In process of investigating the swarm of bat and him being an auto ninja he claimed he is a vampire something.

Then Roden claimed to be a vampire hunter,

with this knowledge that vampires are not aligned with town

and can't be vigged immediately after this info got out that dunn is a vampire instantly. He had to stop here if all he wanted was to get rid of a vampire but then he outright claimed that he is town but he has an extra wincondition to get at least 1 vampire killed in addition to removing all threats to town.

Now, this has a small contradiction (and I just got what dunn meant in a sneak tree while writing this TLDR) as if vampires are not aligned with the town then removing all threats to town would be the same win condition. But roden didn't have to even mention that part, instead, he was asking in sneak chat from dunn if he is a 3p a good 3p and if there are other vampires we can push so he would still fulfill his win condition and get a vampire killed.

roden has been flavor hunting for a long time now which is consistent with him wanting to get a special flavor killed. Neither he or Dunn claimed to be 3p. Both have scumminess surrounding their roles.

Both roden and dunn claimed their roles and actions in our chat as well now (well dun completely did, roden might have other stuff to claim). I will give them the courtesy to claim their roles themselves if they want to, or when we were pushing the slots as it's practically obvious that there is at least one scum between roden and dunnstral as roden said and insisted that vampires are not aligned with town and dunn insisted that he ain't 3p or evil and that he is town. Oh, and roden rejected my guess that he has a survival win con in addition to wanting a vig killed. he outright claimed town

Anyways this is not All the information. Regardless of your instincts I still have to ask you to make sure this day phase doesn't end fast. Do not put anyone on E1 or E2 till further notice.

Fixed post ...

1

Fixed broken bold tag

[Frozen Angel]

almost fixed at least ... [/b]

2

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't misunderstand anything that was exactly what I said?! I used an investigative action on you night 1, it hit swarm of bats you claimed that you have no anti-town utility, when we discussed it again and I claimed the flavor of it you checked with mod and a mod error was confirmed. That's all I said and you said again?

This should only affect roles such as tracker and watcher

talk more about this? which roles exactly should see a swarm of bats if they target you? Cause What I used on you was not a watcher or tracker.

And yes, the fact that you have ninja in your role is scummy. Why would a town player have such thing as role in the first place? lying or not.

But moving on from that I mentioned that mainly to say what lead to you flavor claiming that created this 1v1 between you and roden for us.

Roden claimed that immediately after it was mentioned you're a vampire but they didn't have to claim its their extra win condition if all they wanted was to get you killed. The fact he claimed a guilty on you was enough for that. What he did was being transparent with what that made their case less strong even against getting you killed in hopes that you're not the only vampire in game and giving you doubt that vampires might be good side aligned 3p. Which was a town play by him.

[Frozen Angel]

Dunn is it ok If I out rest of your role claim?

1

[Frozen Angel]

I kinda trust Dunn more than roden tbh.

Him coming in on me like that was pure town mindset

Dunn stole your 1 shot engineer role last night with sneak tree ultimate. You have no engineer shots to use anymore but you wont know about it. and was pushing you to know what your role is.

He claimed he is a Joat with tracker watcher doctor and role block and he has to use them in that same order. He claimed he tracked gypyx (who we already know had no skill to use) night 1 and that he went nowhere. He claimed he watched my slot night 2 and no one visited me (still not proven wrong)

I also counterclaim that I'm an investigative joat but I have no restriction to use my skills in any particular order with actually similar powers to what he claimed. Roden also claimed investigative roles and I don't believe we have so many of same role in same alignment in game.

2

[Frozen Angel]

Dunn also claims he used role stop on Dwlee slot.

Dwlee slot was tracked by me last night and they went nowhere

This goes along by both role stop and dwlee claim that they targeted no one. so we also have that information in public now.

pedit: the whole result claim and vampire - vampire hunter thing came to play today



3

[Frozen Angel]

Anyways What I'm 100% certain about right now are the following:

1 - There is 100% a scum between Dunnstral and Roden. It is mechanically confirmed.

2 - Roden play there makes no sense if he just wanted dunn killed. he could just not claim his wincondition is to get him killed as well. He has extra winconditions in addition to wanting dunn dead, survivor or town or whatever else. But its certain his game doesn't end with dunn death.

3 - Dunnstral passive is a scum utility.

Also note that Roden claim of extra win condition claim makes sense if there are possibilities of multiple vampires that are not entirely bad, He just knows they are not town according to what he claimed so they can be survivors - making sense with how they cant get viged also according to roden claim. so maybe there are 2 vampires in game one a natural 3p and one a scum.

We also know dunn can't be a natural 3p if roden is telling the truth and he is evil as he insisted on denying that and claimed he is town. (that was how roden played in sneak chat and why he claimed everything including his win condition)

So based on all I saw in sneak chat, Dunn is the scum and roden is telling the truth - is my deduction.

1

[Frozen Angel]

we might be dealing with a multi ball with evil 3p roles here. so wouldn't even be surprised to see one more scum + 1 natural 3p in addition to that

Specially with all these utilities thrown in setup - low NK and revive

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

@shiro

Since you have mage tree maxed, can you check with mod and reply to me the answers of the following questions regarding 1- shot miller:

1 - is it an auto active skill applying to the first investigation?
2 - Will it also affect if the investigation is during the day?

any other mage can also check and confirm. I just want it mod confirmed

1

[Frozen Angel]

That doesn't answer all my question. It actually creates more

Also, ask this, please

3 - Will millers work against stuff like a gunsmith, etc too, or only cop as it normally is?

I also want everyone with mage first skill to claim that. I'm giving 24 hours for this.

if someone doesn't claim in this period and there is guilty on them, they are guilty and will die.

2

[Frozen Angel]

It specifically say that it's automatic and it's any investigative will give positive result

does it effect day investigation too? Check with mod please



3

[Frozen Angel]

Titus have you read rest of posts?

1

[Frozen Angel]

That doesn't answer all my question. It actually creates more

Also, ask this, please

3 - Will millers work against stuff like a gunsmith, etc too, or only cop as it normally is?

I also want everyone with mage first skill to claim that. I'm giving 24 hours for this.

if someone doesn't claim in this period and there is guilty on them, they are guilty and will die.

2

Just so if someone missed

2

[Frozen Angel]

You tried to tell everyone that I claimed that a vampire faction existed. This can be proven to be false by either Angel or Mastina though, since they can confirm I never said that and that I even clarified this to you in the hood. So yeah, you not only lied, but you did so in bad faith.

I can confirm that the exact wording he used was that the vampires aren't town. He was questioning if dunn is a 3p that can side with good afterward and seeing if he can take out someone else instead.

[Frozen Angel]

Anyways as I told you I have a lot of other stuff to announce.

First thing is that I do have a Guilty result on Dwlee with a cop check.

I have the flavor and role of a detective. And I'm the ultimate detective that you can find anywhere. I have been doing multiple investigations in-game in the last phases. For example, I used a gunsmith check on Dunnstral night 1 (this was the same check I talked about earlier - in which he blocked my investigation with a swarm of bat) and I tracked dwlee to nowhere on night 2. This cop check happened during this day phase in which I specifically went after a slot that I could target with an investigative role and I was suspecting.

Roden and Dunnestral have at least one scum so there was no point in checking there in addition that I could not target dunnestral knowing he blocks all investigative actions now, and targeting roden would also give a useless result based on what he claimed in sneak chat and I couldn't use it on him either. Roden has a very strong utility that can help him survive.

With both dunn and roden being off the table and all the players with mage skills I decided to just check dwlee and make sure we're having an ensured red flip by pushing in that direction.

Anyhow This isn't all the information I wanted to share.

I will die at the end of this day phase but I need to ask everyone to not revive me tonight.

I will not explain why or what do I have in mind, (yeah nice try)

My death at the end of this day phase is main reason I want to prolong this phase as much as possible so we can sort and talk about different slots before I'm gone. regardless dwlee is the lynch today

VOTE: Dwlee

No one else is allowed to vote dwlee yet Knowing he is at E3 right now and we have a double voter in-game.

Oh and before I forget, I still want everyone who takes 1 skill of mage tree to claim instantly in thread

No one said my detective work is done now that I'm dieing.

1

[Frozen Angel]

Dwlee is they not he. I'm sorry for all pronoun mistakes. Needed my coffee before writing all that

2

[Frozen Angel]

regardless no other vote on dwlee yet

[Frozen Angel]

and targeting roden would also give a useless result based on what he claimed in sneak chat

Dang that's unfortunate that he also claimed to be immune to investigations right after making up a bunch of other stuff

He claimed what he got upgraded to and it would give him a green result if he wouldn't claim it. So he pretty much saved a cop check instead of being fake cleared. You are on sneak tree and you're changing facts = you are scum.

I could not target dunnestral knowing he blocks all investigative actions now

I block reports, not actions. That's why I can be turned into a mason still.

and that why you can't be cop checked. You block reports not actions?! You make investigative actions hit a swarm of bats.

So you insisting on me checking you today in sneak chat even after the mod error thing and your skill reveal is absurdly scummy.

Your skill is equivalent of anti town utility and you responded to me that you have no anti town utility in general Mod error or not. The only thing I gave you a benefit of doubt was not believing it would be active all the time. doesn't change anything about me scum reading you.

My stance was that the cop check should have been used on someone besides Dwlee and we should just eliminate Dwlee anyway

Dwlee b eing mafia was pretty obvious. As a reminder, I role stopped Dwlee last night.

Are you credit hunting for this?! That is absolutely nothing to give you any kind of credit for. There was nearly no other slot I could check and I went with the best target between them.

And about the role stop, no one is even suggesting you're allied with dwlee. You're scum anyway.

The next lynch should be Dunnestral btw.

For this reason, Frozen Angel should actually unvote. If you are dying at the end of the day phase then you are just wasting exp. Even if you can still use it after you die, you should still unvote anyway and let somebody in warrior hood.

I want exp and it wont be wasted. I will not unvote

Stop trying to fix the today lynch. No one else should vote yet. Pushing for yume to vote is Incredibly scummy as well. Go back to your corner scum.

1

[Frozen Angel]

He said that vampires couldn't be vigged, they could only be voted out.

I'm sorry you got caught over a dumb slip but you're kind of more trouble than you're worth for my wincon at this point.

I'd rather just Vig you like you wanted and just stick to the main wincon so you stop giving scum info out of spite.

So which is it Roden?

Take a look at the hood before you fuck up any more of tonight's plans

I really don't get how you are simultaneously calling me either mafia or hostile 3p and expecting me to be working with you in the hood, and revealing info in there like it's nothing

You've been changing what was discussed in hood. You're acting in my face where I can read everything there and in here.

This is actually gonna be mind blowing if anyone falls for your act in here when everyone else in sneak chat is saying what happened there for real.

He said he knows vampires are not town. He immidietly pushed to get a claim from you if you're a 3p that can side with town right after. Where in the f...ing earth did he even mention he suspects you're mafia? You're making shit up to make him less reliable that + everything else that happened proves you're the scum between the two.

2

[Frozen Angel]

We actually only had one pseudo-guilty, which is me role stopping him, despite the sentiment earlier. And FA didn't listen to me when I said not to check Dwlee because of Roden's fake information.

This is another lie. Lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie

can I emphasize more? Roden claim makes perfect sense to me. Dunnstral is scum between the two.

and you role stopping dwlee was not a guilty

My other options to cop check were mastina and JJH. I town read both to a point that I was just ok with making sure we're on the right track

With dwlee being guilty 100% and you (or roden) having 1 scum I'm pretty sure we're already set for the game anyway



3

[Frozen Angel]

Your skill is equivalent of anti town utility and you responded to me that you have no anti town utility in general Mod error or not.

How is that my fault?

It's not? Its just something that got revealed you have which you were hiding on purpose at first when you thought it didn't come to play. But you got forced to reveal it. It's a scum mindset to keep such thing hidden and not claim it outright?!

1

[Frozen Angel]

I'm honestly 100% sure at this point that dunnestral is an evil 3p

I need to reveal this as well

We heard another claim that suggests werewolfs are also evil 3p possible in game that get even nights night kill.

Would not surprise me that vampire is (are) ones with odd nights night kills.

Just listen and list whatever dunn claimed so far. How can a town role has these many utilities. He is a joat claimed investigative heal, role block with extra skill in sneak tree, who is immune to get investigated, who roden claims he is immune to get vigged who just gifted exp to someone from another chat?!

This is just not town

2

[Frozen Angel]

are you putting curses on my slot or something

3

[Frozen Angel]

well this dunnestral here is cought scum today dwlee tomorrow dunnestral

1

[Frozen Angel]

who has access to the revive skill?

Can you explain how the skill actually works? Will the revived players come back with their own alignment or the revived alignment? (yes the second is a thing)

2

[Frozen Angel]

If they come back with their own alignment + shiro turns out without any cult like mechanics (that they could have used instead of revive) then LLD is conf town.

Its still something we need to keep back of our minds.

Regardless I ask again so it's not missed: No revive me after I died today

3

[Frozen Angel]

It's apparently the 4th skill in the Mage tree. Shiro reviving LLD just means they're likely town.

yeah that's why I'm asking if anyone else has it they can check with mod about how it works. and shiro can explain how it works.

1

[Frozen Angel]

Why not revive?

1

cause reasons

2

[Frozen Angel]

If you have the revive and poky is revivable (check with mod about his skill) see if you can bring him back

First check with mod that if those are garurnteed tor return with their own alignment or not.

3



(yes this is a flooding floor chair)

[Frozen Angel]

But i am curious...

You'll see. I can't talk about it.

1

[Frozen Angel]

Why no one else questioned why dunn managed to sent exp to jjh actually

Like he has no shared pt with jjh

or does he?

[Frozen Angel]

I also want to see an updated read list from everyone plase

[Frozen Angel]

Wait a fucking second

Enchant: fullclaim right now.

How did you know dunnstral sent me 0.75 exp? We have a hard guilty on Dwlee, so if you can track exp being sent jn some way we can literally get a result on everyone who isn't in the mage hood


Pedit: Yume, it's 3rd posts and you definitely failed the challenge

In which hood is dwlee in right now?

He never joined sneak chat and if he did he never said anything to any of us.

1

[Frozen Angel]

I forgot the half exp thing completely ...

thanks

2

[Frozen Angel]

Ok so I had a really busy day sorry about that.

few stuff:

1 - I really want JJH and mastina to not start mage tree. So please don't. If anyone started mage tree I want them claimed today.
2 - I really would appreciate a read list from everyone with all info that was shared
3 - There is no guarantee that "scum chat" is considered a neighborhood so don't give fake clear to people for 0.25 exp shares. Guess we can try to catch liers tomorrow with that if we force people to share 0.5 exp to others for testing purposes.
4 - Do not try to vig roden. Less sure about what happens if you try vigging dunnestral. We need to somehow solve that 1v1 tomorrow however.


My own read list right now is

Shiro

JJH, Mastina, Titus, LLD

Yume, Roden, Enchant

Dunnestral

For dwlee wagon I would appreciate if we could construct it properly. we already have Shiro, Titus, Frozen Angel which is good. Guess better if instead of yume we have jjh LLD and I guess mastina there. yume is ok I guess however instead of mastina. Please share your read lists before end of phase.

[Frozen Angel]

well you baited him to vote himself which is what we didn't want to happen. oh well

@shiro its because of the claim they did in sneak chat that I have them higher 1 tier. I also still don't trust enchant at all as I believe they have not been solving the game. but mastina can go somewhere between that tier I put her in and the tier lower I guess.

1

[Frozen Angel]

Anyways everyone <3

Good luck with the game. Lets bring this home town

2

[Frozen Angel]

Hi everyone. I never died and that was just a disappearing act for the night

I am Kyko Kirigiry, the ultimate detective. Been hinting at it in multiple places, I can go and gather up if you want. I did have gunsmith (used on dunnestral), track (used on dwlee) and day cop check (used on dwlee) cause of my upgrade and a detective shot that I used on Mastina last night and I found her guilty as she attempted to shoot someone last night.

She had a vig shot but she claimed that she used it the night before so its impossible that her kill come from that. So I think we can consider this as a hard guilty.

My supposebale death was just disappearing act. I technically never died, just acted like that so I would be able to do my last check and bring another guilty which I did. Thats why I've been asking please don't revive me. It was all a lie.

I also shot dunnestral myself. I invested on the warrior tree so I had that, and after reading everything about roden dunn all over again, I decided to eliminate one of them. I need to outright say it here that based on roden claim you cant shoot him.


Anyways I want both roden and mastina too full claim, and today elimination to be mastina for the attempted kill last night.

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Mastina

[Frozen Angel]

Some of the crumbs about me being kyoko:

I guess not knowing someone doesn't mean you don't understand them.

its literally her quote in my first post

I have the flavor and role of a detective. And I'm the ultimate detective that you can find anywhere.

or my last claim post where I announced guilty and that I'm dieing.

Also reread how mod outed me out of game. I just error 404ed not died. I just made a disappearing act to "act dead"

[Frozen Angel]

UNVOTE: Mastina

Checking something with mod. hold it for a minute

[Frozen Angel]

@everyone did anyone use a role stop on roden last night

[Frozen Angel]

By the way, FA, I did mention to Shiro (but not LLD/Yume) that you were probably going to come back to life immediately by yourself

If I can notice it, anyone else theoretically can

yeah I was acting like that I'm dead and I can get revived to buy myself a safe night so I could just do my last action

its so fit with the flavor what happened with my role, as kyoko disappears middle of the mysteries to get some detective work done and appears back later just like what I did

I technically never even died. it was just announced that way

[Frozen Angel]

mastina is almost never in group scum. if she is scum she is 3p. so you calling it a bus wont help the case against her.

We also need to figure out what to do with roden himself.

Also @dunn sorry for doubting you. but at that point after reviewing everything I decided to just go as you asked and vig you.

pedit: we also need to be wary of a cult. The game doesn't have many scum flips yet and there are almost no night kills. we either used protection really well or we're just not finding the real threat in the game yet

[Frozen Angel]

You literally have a guilty on mastina, FA

Yeah

I have a result that came out positive about them attempting to kill someone.

but it seems I misunderstood my role and it might have been a report if they ever decided to kill someone - not just last night. In that case it can be explained by their vig attempt the night before that on Yume with warrior ultimate. I'm waiting for mod to clarify what my result exactly mean.

Vig attempts on Yume are failing btw. 2 Vig shots that I know was on that slot and neither hit.

[Frozen Angel]

we probably will need mastina to full claim in thread at this point regardless of my result shingamies. she already claimed in our sneak chat and I'm just working on details of my result with her claim - and double checking things with mod

[Frozen Angel]

the vigs were on different nights as well based on claims.

[Frozen Angel]

I AM BEARMANCER.

can you explain how exactly the revive skill works

the people who come back are guaranteed to have same alignment as before?

did you check stuff with mod?

[Frozen Angel]

I AM BEARMANCER.

can you explain how exactly the revive skill works

the people who come back are guaranteed to have same alignment as before?

did you check stuff with mod?

It's 1-Shot obviously.
There's nothing stated about alignment.
Every character can be revived only once.

you can question the mod about it. ask if the revived players come back with their original role and alignment or not

[Frozen Angel]

I think the issue with your hood is that you have been listening to Mastina too much, and when I see her claim I'm probably gonna call you all clowns for thinking it conftowns her somehow

It does not conf town her. I've been against that all the time. Its just a claim that makes sense and she did it early. any thing else about it being related to her alignment is pure wifom. that's why I checked her last night.

I'm desperately in need of mod to come online to answer my question about my role right now.

[Frozen Angel]

@roden you explicitly claimed that vampires arent aligned with town and cant get vigged

refused to accept that you're a survivor.

why that doesn't mean you're scum now that we know what dunnestral was

[Frozen Angel]

roden play in our chat yesterday in order that happened was:

- after discovering dunn is vampire instantly claimed he knows vampires arent town and cant get vigged
- claimed he wants a vampire killed as well as winning with town
- pushed against the idea of dunn getting vigged or masonized (obviously hints at him knowing he would flip as town)
- refused to claim he is 3p when directly asked about his own alignment
- implied he wont leave game and has more stuff to do with his wincondition in our chat
- then directly claimed he is leaving game victorious if we get dunn lynched in main thread

[Frozen Angel]

@roden you explicitly claimed that vampires arent aligned with town and cant get vigged

refused to accept that you're a survivor.

why that doesn't mean you're scum now that we know what dunnestral was

I hard pushed both scum elims and tried to save Pooky.

how that means you're not an evil 3p

[Frozen Angel]

@roden you explicitly claimed that vampires arent aligned with town and cant get vigged

refused to accept that you're a survivor.

why that doesn't mean you're scum now that we know what dunnestral was

I hard pushed both scum elims and tried to save Pooky.

how that means you're not an evil 3p

I literally explained this one in depth yesterday. You even admitted my play makes no sense to come from evil 3P.

That was on the baisi that you're acting protown and wanting to sort dunnestral instead of just getting him killed. now we know it wasn't true and you lied about dunnestral not being aligned with town and not being viggable

so it just makes it look like you slipped and claimed you need him dead for your wincondition and got forced to continue playing like that instead of just continuing your initial narrative about him being scum

[Frozen Angel]

basis*

[Frozen Angel]

I started suspecting you when you told jjh you'll leave game when you get dunn killed. that doesn't make sense with what you were implying in thread. you were also clearly worried about him getting vigged and vene claimed you BG him when first you said he cant be vigged - then tried to bring an excuse for it saying he might spread his vampirism if he is shot at. That exactly why I thought its best if I just shoot him

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

[Frozen Angel]

OH btw we also need to be aware of the possibility of tailor-type roles now that we have revives. Its best to not rely on that mechanic too much and just solve the game without considering it exists and allow town to naturally decide if they want revive or not on someone.

[Frozen Angel]

I really think there is something on evil side of this setup that we didn't understand yet and its scaring me

There should be a massive scum side utility that is doing their job freely right now. in a setup with so many protective and investigations, this just doesn't make sense

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

To be fair Roden, FA is pushing a pretty valid point in that you explicitly said that vampires are not town aligned and Dunnstral has flipped as entirely town aligned

Because something fucky is going on. I know how it looks and I don't have a satisfying answer.

what do you mean by something fucky is going on just explain everything that's going through your mind about it. Let us evaluate if its satisfying or not ourselves

[Frozen Angel]

So I guess I will sheep the guilty for now and go from there.

VOTE: mastina

Just no. Its not a guilty right now. wait for the mod to come online and clarify my questions about it

[Frozen Angel]

mastina you really can just be already a werewolf forced to say you're town. like how your vote and unvote are replaced. it would a be a role design about lies. so this is just pure wifom that you keep saying this makes you town.

like everyone and you should know that it doesn't and this weird defensiveness about your role being only "town" is actually worrying.

pedit: that ...

[Frozen Angel]

So yeah I have no guilty on mastina anymore

I know that she attempted to kill someone positively. But they claimed they tried to vig yume N2 with warrior skill so there is that

Mod confirmed that my check was for all phases not just the last night phase

and no that doesn't mean I'll vote JJH. He clearly should not be wagoned for another fake guilty.

[Frozen Angel]

JJH was getting wagoned cause roden recieved no result which got explained instantly. why on earth would you want to blame my result on your slot for that shit wagon getting dissolved?

If you have a scum read on JJH properly case him. till then:

the main suspect of mine right now is roden himself for his lies yesterday about dunnestral being not town and him not being viggable - both were lies proven that I shot him and here he is a with a town flip. and his response to me questioning it in last page was dodgy as hell

VOTE: Roden

[Frozen Angel]

Mod answered me that it's not public knowledge.

So we have no idea what LLD and poky are right now. and we should solve those slots like normal slots all over again.

[Frozen Angel]

Probably this statement will be disregarded as silly.

But.

I think Roden is jester.

He was so hard pushing dunn to be lycnhed and not vigged. he was trying so hard to make sure no one touch the slot, even said he wants to bodyguard it in an instance. he claimed its not viggable on his first post about vampires being anti town and never backed down from it. he also spreaded the ideas of "maybe targeting him spreads vampirism or stuff like that

so no. for me he is for sure with a lyncher wincon

But that doesn't mean he is town beside that. I was thinking that cause what he did was pretty much evaluating dunn even if he had a guilty on it so I believed the guilty. But now that we see it was all a lie, he clearly played anti town yesterday, and I cant justify his claim anymore and I think him claiming he needs dunn dead was just a miscalculated slip by him.

[Frozen Angel]

what was this fucky thing about it that you mentioned 2 pages ago.

[Frozen Angel]

Angel, if yoiu

really

wanna do this, I don't really care. I already said my flip will prove my alignment and we can scrounge up the experience to rez me once I'm proven town.

I really wanna know why you claimed that vampires are not town and insisted on it even after you claimed you want him dead for your wincondition if you were working on sorting him for real the way you claimed you were

your plays had paradox

To be fair Roden, FA is pushing a pretty valid point in that you explicitly said that vampires are not town aligned and Dunnstral has flipped as entirely town aligned

Because something fucky is going on. I know how it looks and I don't have a satisfying answer.

[Frozen Angel]

Okay so "properly" has not been done before but I told you on D2 that I could highlight the posts of jjh that felt "off" in what he was doing, where he was focusing, who he was pushing, how he was pushing, etc. I still can, but that requires time.

I will wait for this

[Frozen Angel]

yume gladiting when we have clear suspects and reasons to pursue outside of your suspect is an anti town play. please don't do it

[Frozen Angel]

I was so about to steal the page top but I have a kind heart

[Frozen Angel]

yume if you gladiate at this state I'll probably vote you unless if you have guilty result or a hard solid case.

your choice

[Frozen Angel]

Yume, Gladiate will put you and someone else in elimination pool. If you're town then there is a 50% chance that you ruined that day phase just statistically speaking,

unless if you have a solid case against someone almost always gladiating is an anti town utility.

Gladiating can be useful in a very specific conditions but this is clearly not one. can you please evaluate a read list for me

[Frozen Angel]

mate you were the one who was lying. what are you even talking about,

he was inisiting that you were not sorting him which was untrue. but you literally said he is not viggable and he is scum before you claimed its your wincondition to get rid of him but you also have town wincon and must sort his slot and then changed story that you'll leave game if you achieve the lynch winconwhile still insisting on he is scum which turned out to be a lie ...

I really wanna know "what was fucky about the situation that you mentioned earlier. You didn't say you played antitown yesterday on purpose for your wincondition or even apologize for it. you said the situation is fucky and it will look bad like you were looking for a way to justify him turning green and how you played yesterday with the flip

so please.

Also your argument about pushing scum is so irrelevant here that its mind bugging how you insist on using that to reflect this push on your slot. You did get dunnestral killed with a fake guilty. Why did you do so if you were town?

[Frozen Angel]

I said vampires aren't town-aligned,

Never mind

he also insited on them not being viggable. he also theorized that if you try vigging them you turn to a vampire. all lies.

My theory is he claimed guilty on him when he realized its a vampire cause he has a lyncher wincon. then slipped and mentioned he needs him dead, and got forced to play along and act like he is sorting the slot and that he suspects it can be a good 3p. to make sure the slot wont be vigged he started spreading ideas about how evil dunn slot can be regarding to vigs. when you questioned him in thread he changed his story to that he leaves game when dunn is lynched to make his story more believable. He clearly never was trying to sort that slot for real though or if he was town lyncher he would not give the false info about the slot or would correct himself and full claim it yesterday after expressing why he wants him dead.

and today when questioned he got nervous and didn't outright claim it was an antitown play cause it would help his second wincon. if he would say that I would actually probably let it go too, but he called the situation fucky, like some sort of unown shinigamies are going on about what happened to sort out excuses.

Its just not town play.

[Frozen Angel]

we need to know what stopped yume's death last night

[Frozen Angel]

I never guilty'd Dunn.

I don't know why he flipped town because it contradicts the info I was given. Best I can assume is it has to do with the "blood pact" he made in the hood chat after he spammed a bunch of MTG cards.

If you can't understand how hard pushing two scum against town's wishes while also trying to stop town from mis-elimming other townies, then this town is just hilariously bad. Again, y'all don't want to play mafia for some reason.

the blood pact was an action - probably cause of his upgrade - but its effects are unknown to me. Mod just said it was used on me but didn't reveal any info about it.

Who would target a dieing slot - as I was claiming to be - with what kind of skill? beside maybe some sort of chat after death, or maybe doing something to help me come back to life or something?

Also stop this nonsense. You were hardpushing scum, doesn't make you town in this setup

you know damn well why you're getting pushed and that is precisely irrelivent to the reason you're getting pushed for. You gain 0 credit out of this push cause of your reads and pushes.

and I'm playing mafia. This is mafia.

You said dunn is not aligned with town with exact wording multiple times and that he isn't viggable

I shot him and he flipped town.

Like no

[Frozen Angel]

Yes I'm tilted

that doesnt make sense either

I'm giving you a chance to explain your lies.

so I think Its fake this getting tilted

[Frozen Angel]

well played so you're trying to use that to come back at me

As for why you're claiming your Vig worked fine Angel, I'm certain it has to do with the Blood Pact ability, and that you're purposely withholding information about how Dunn is affecting you. The fact that you tried to Vig him after I told you it could affect your alignment is scummy as fuck tbh.

His blood pact effect is not known to me. If I knew what it was I wouldn't scream in our chat the way I did when he used the skill. mod later came and said that I was hit by it but I don't know what it did. So I don't know what it did. I really belive that he thought I'm really dieing so used a skill that will effect me when I die. But I never died.

The fact you told me I cant vig him cause it might effect my alignment + you asking to body guard him + you saying he cant be vigged + you saying in our chat that you will have to stay and finish town wincon and changing it in main thread when jjh asked that you'll leave game is exactly why I was like you know what I will go through with this. First I tried to buy even two vig shots that even if you would reflect my first shot back I would still kill one of you with second one even if you were body guarding him.

Your contraditionary stance on that slot about them getting vigged or not is even scummier than your lie about them being scum. You wanted to make a play here and I prevented it cause I was sure you're lying after rereading your posts. But now you insist that those were wrong information somehow you had instead of outright claiming you played anti town cause you were a supposable town lyncher and wanted to work for your win con. This new stance is exactly why you should go down today cause it means you're not a town lyncher.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm trying to question everything surrounding Roden and vampires here, so could someone let me know if the exp stuff all lines up fine with FA buying a vig

0.25 + purchased retry + Day 1 challenge + New day = 1.25 (end of D1) + New Night = 1.5 (end of N1) + song + New day + Day 2 Challenge = 3.25 (end of D2) + New night = 3.5 (end of N2) + New day + challenge + being on wagon = 5.25 (end of D3)

everyone who've been playing and did a challenge or two can have an ultimate skill and beyond that at this stage of the game.

[Frozen Angel]

so everyone knows what this blood pact thing is

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Your skill is equivalent of anti town utility and you responded to me that you have no anti town utility in general Mod error or not.

How is that my fault?

It's not? Its just something that got revealed you have which you were hiding on purpose at first when you thought it didn't come to play. But you got forced to reveal it. It's a scum mindset to keep such thing hidden and not claim it outright?!

1

I'm honestly 100% sure at this point that dunnestral is an evil 3p

I need to reveal this as well

We heard another claim that suggests werewolfs are also evil 3p possible in game that get even nights night kill.

Would not surprise me that vampire is (are) ones with odd nights night kills.

Just listen and list whatever dunn claimed so far. How can a town role has these many utilities. He is a joat claimed investigative heal, role block with extra skill in sneak tree, who is immune to get investigated, who roden claims he is immune to get vigged who just gifted exp to someone from another chat?!

This is just not town

2

are you putting curses on my slot or something

3

dunn been posting those card images on our chat as well during day 3 after the push against him started as well. That was one of the reasons that I didn't go against roden mid day despite his contraditions that I mentioned above cause I was sure that dunn is up to something. right before end of the phase he used a skill called "Blood pact" on me in sneak chat. I immediately lost my shit as I thought he is trying to change my alignment to scum knowing I'm dieing or something. no one else questioned him, and I decided to not say anything in sneak chat to continue playing dead to just shoot dunnestral.

and If you wanna question this next, I did hard core claim my flavor many times in game and you know that my disappearing act was true cause kyoko never died and did perform this disappearing act in flavor. I also heavy hinted at it when I said no revive on me and stuff like that. Mod didn't even say I'm revived cause I never died.

So yeah I think his blood pact skill is something that triggers on me when I die and he was assuming I will but I didn't.

I'm sure I ruined both dunn and roden play last night whatever they were.

[Frozen Angel]

Regardless of his skill

whatever bastard shit it can be how could he be both not viggable and not Town and then suddenly one skill make him both viggable and town.

so roden is still lying to us about his information being wrong. just like how he was contraditing himself all the time yesterday.

[Frozen Angel]

Ofcourse you did. I just listed like 10 contradictions.

Lets say thats true about you leaving the game and mod clarified it later for you. That doesn't explain why you didn't fix your lie about him not being viggable and not town - and doesn't explain why would you suggest body guarding him and spread ideas about his "vampirism" being conteigous probably all just to make sure others not touch the slot if he was truly not viggable and you know it for a fact + seeing he actually got vigged right in the face

so cant believe it for a second that you had these information anymore. if you would say "yeah I played antitown on purpose cause I was lyncher and wanted my wincon done" sure but you still don't admit that those were a lie and its just another lie cause its in contradiction with all events of yesterday and I just explained how.

pedit: You claimed he is not town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are you for real now?! You claimed he is not town and you try to even suggest that his green flip is somehow on me?! the responsibility of that wrong information is 100% on you.

[Frozen Angel]

Roden will never flip town in this.

[Frozen Angel]

If I was confident I would not be giving time to you explain what happened yesterday and I would not be questioning you.

I am solving the game. This is my conclusion that you've lied and that you're insisting on it means you're not flipping town so I want you flipped. Regardless of your alignment a little respect while playing a game goes a long way.

Meanwhile your crocodile tears will not change my opinion on your slot suddenly. Its logically proven that you're full of shit so unless if you refute the logic with logic or give us something that would change the course of this case/convo, you're going down.

[Frozen Angel]

where is titus

[Frozen Angel]

I'm trying to question everything surrounding Roden and vampires here, so could someone let me know if the exp stuff all lines up fine with FA buying a vig

0.25 + purchased retry + Day 1 challenge + New day = 1.25 (end of D1) + New Night = 1.5 (end of N1) + song + New day + Day 2 Challenge = 3.25 (end of D2) + New night = 3.5 (end of N2) + New day + challenge + being on wagon = 5.25 (end of D3)

everyone who've been playing and did a challenge or two can have an ultimate skill and beyond that at this stage of the game.

Okay but is it known what you spent your exp on and when?

I immediately spent everything I got on first possible phases on warrior tree. I do have body guard and the engineer free and didn't use them on anyone.

I tried using engineer on myself after mastina but I couldn't upgrade myself further. and everyone else seems to be upgraded but mastina themself and we decided to not upgrade them with the nature of their claim.

[Frozen Angel]

mastina is the one who can still be town not roden. Mastina is certainly not scum by role claim and that role can legit exist the way they described.making up that claim when we were on page 1 of game is absolutely ridiculously hard. So I believe most of their claim at least is truth and if they are scum is just minor differences - like for example they are already a werewolf who has the post restriction to say they are town etc. But lack of kills (specially in even nights that they claimed warewfol can) just suggests if they are a serial killer, they been behaving?

so yeah role wise it still makes no sense for the slot to be scum while it has a possibility still

play wise they been pushing poky and it felt genuine, their reads and hunts been also genuine, like they guessed shiro was llds masonizer in day 1 and started trying to convince rest of us that shiro is town cause of it cause she felt that's what lld was crumbling. Now that would be such a random angle to pursue for a scum mastina out of nowhere to use meta and hints to make such a far fetched read that they were convinced at the time to push

stuff like that gave an early town read on the slot for me - at least I could see it having a town mindset.

[Frozen Angel]

Role wise, one of mastina's picks was that she never fakeclaims as scum in a game with post restrictions. Have you considered she may be unable to claim her real role?

yes. its just impractical post restriction to apply. none of us are technically allowed to claim our role just paraphrase it. Its so depends on personal judgement whats close enough to be failing such post restrictions

in additioneven then I believe what she claimed has some sort of truth in it (and we saw some sort of truth in it with her vote for example and we know her post restriction) so it cant be a completely fake claim. so we can conclude that she is not restricted from claiming her role. ofc she is restricted from scum claiming if she is scum that's against her wincon

This is just pure wifom however and will for sure get absolutely nowhere

[Frozen Angel]

Mastina: literally claims evil 3P

Angel: "yeah this is probably town"

They claimed they can turn in to an evil 3p but they are town otherwise. I just said rest of their claim makes sense and if they are town or not is pure wifom shit

Stop discreditng my arguments. Thats just so painfully desprate

Roden openly trying to divert attention on Mastina.

If I don't roll over and die then I'm scum I guess

So you suddenly developed a scum read on mastina when you were buddy buddy with her before getting pushed in our chat?!

[Frozen Angel]

Like, right now you're supposed to be annoyed about how people have misinterpeted what you said

Why not be explicitly clear about what info you got and let me get to the bottom of this

Cause we didn't misinterpret anything

He is just caught scum and the whole theater about being annoyed about getting pushed is fake.

[Frozen Angel]

roden is clearly town can we just kill mastina holy shit

mate he claimed dunnestral is not town and not viggable

he is dead and he flipped green by my vig shot

how is he clearly town. Are you for real? Can you at least read stuff

[Frozen Angel]

also if roden was the last scum it would be really stupid for him to fake a guilty on dunnstral cuz there's no way in hell reinhardt was going to endgame

he didn't fake a guilty. he wanted the slot lynched cause of its flavor - vampire

so I'm 100% sure he had an extra lyncher wincon.

But he insists that his data was real which is clearly a lie.

I don't care if you're blinded or what not. read the game before saying random stuff about people alignment.

[Frozen Angel]

ok lets say roden is a executioner or w/e

is he groupscum?

my guess is no

but I think so is mastina

[Frozen Angel]

that she aint group scum either if she is scum

[Frozen Angel]

Angel knows that she's been targeted by an unknown affect and that it was done with evil intent

No?!! dunn flipped town

why the fuck would I assume it was done with evil intent now?

I know that probably was something that would effect me if I died. But I was lying about dieing so the effect of it has yet come to play.

I instantly assumed it was evil cause of the nature and flavor of it when dunn was not flipped. That was one of the reasons that I even shot him. Ofcourse I questioned it. I was the ONLY one in sneak chat that questioned it. Why didn't you say anything about it last night phase or even today until you got pushed?

[Frozen Angel]

And mechanically, there's no reason for her to be notified by the mod that she was targeted by an ability. That's not how abilities typically work, unless you know what the affect is or you've been doused by an arsonist.

Mechanically I was targeted by this action but mod refused to explain it explicitly. so I can mechanically confirm that it action did target me. IT was a public action that was used (as he did it in sneak chat not in private)

So yes that's how the public actions work.

You're so desprate that its actually funny to what you fixate on right now.

[Frozen Angel]

Like, right now you're supposed to be annoyed about how people have misinterpeted what you said

Why not be explicitly clear about what info you got and let me get to the bottom of this

Ok so, the main problem isn't that I'm being misinterpreted, nobody just particularly cares what I'm saying. Town is on auto-pilot to the point that the people who want to vote me currently have the mindset of "contradiction = lie = evil" and are just taking the game at face value.

For me to be scum, I'd have to have hard bussed both of my buddies. Yeah scum can do that...but why do I then try to 1v1 Dunn after Dwlee's fate is already sealed? What exactly is that supposed to do for me besides get me killed for trying to fake a guilty on a townie several days before ELO? If someone wants to claim I'm scum, they'd need to explain what I was doing there that's supposed to lock in a scum wincon. In reality, it's pretty obvious I'm not scum.

Ok but what about evil 3P? I've already explained why this doesn't make sense either: I'd just fake a guilty on day start. That's the easiest way to do it, and I'd already pushed two scum beforehand so it wouldn't be hard to convince people to do it. I know this because it literally just happened to me in the last Grand Idea Mafia. I had first hand experience with how to successfully win as executioner by being the target of one, so it would make sense to just follow the same game plan. So it's reasonable to believe I'm not 3P either if you just look at my play.

However, none of that is happening. Nobody wants to think about how my play doesn't make sense to come from scum or 3P. A bastard thing happened in a bastard game, and for some reason, some people can't accept that. I could write a ten page essay thoroughly explaining vampire info, but it wouldn't matter because Dunn appeared to flip town. There's nothing I can type up about vampire info that will make people change their minds.

Contadiction doesn't mean evil and lie doesn't neccissirly mean evil. If they were I would start the day with voting you and would not bother question you.

You refuse to accept how we got here right now and are changing the events. What happened was I asked you a simple question: why you lied. You insisted that you didn't lie

Now you're contradicting yourself in this same very post. At start of it you say that this town is assuming a lie is evil - so accepting you did lie and played anti town and on second part you go back on your claim that you were lied to in your role pm.

Guess what I asked the mod if they lie in role pms or not. They said they can but they would feel so bad about explaining a role badly to player or lie about it inherently that would make the role something else entirely than what was written. The game is bastard, that doesn't mean the mod will lie about to a player about how vampires are not town and are not viggable. It just makes no sense in any design to do so. The only conclusion reachable is that you're lying

so You insisting that you didn't lie is whats scummy about this and contradicting yourself.

About rest of your post, the case against gypyx was not pushed by you. You just hoped on it and dwlee was hard guiltied and scumread by everyone else so if you were not hard busying them as scum I would doubt your sanity.

And for you not being 3p, you can be. I honestly think you made a mistake there claiming that you need him dead, you just wanted to guilty the ass out of him and get him killed and look town while doing so, and then got forced to develop the rest of that story as you saw fit. that's why all these contradictions appeared in the first place.

TLDR is I don't know what other wincon you have beside being an executioner, but whatever it is in addition to that, my conclusion is that its not aligned with town cause if it was you would come clean about it now that its obvious you lied and was playing anti town regarding dunn slot instead of all this desperate attempts to shade other stuff.

[Frozen Angel]

While I agree that mastinas back and forth was an scummy action, doesn't mean it came from a scummy mindset.

those votes on gypyx appeared out of nowhere. I was exactly on the same page with mastina above. I didn't understand how that wagon formed even in the slightest. and mastina was not the main one who redirected the wagon out of that slot on you. it was lld and titus plan and everything else that saved gypyx back thenand redirected

and her sense of shiro being masoinizer and stuff I mentioned were all early day 1 stuff. I just mean to me she was genuinely hunting and sorting reads there.

while she is not my strongest townread - or I would not check him last night - he is not my first choice of elimination and will not pursue that slot yet, over roden that is caught in lies and contradictions and refuses to clarify his role pm and information and to me is a surely caught scum now with all his desprate attempts to shade and change direction of conversation

[Frozen Angel]

Dunn could buy bp for sure but he spent on it to gift exp to you instead. I think he wanted to flip if he was getting vigged after what happened yesterday between roden and him

I honestly was under the assumption my vig shot will fail cause of all these protections. was so surprised to see that it actually hit him

[Frozen Angel]

I think roden believes I became a vampire now and that's why he decided to keep his lies about dunn from last phase and insist that it was a bastard info instead of coming clean

I also suspected that dunn attempted to change my alignment tbh when he used the skill and I called it out and became so salty. It's just so rude to change someones alignment from town when they are "dieing" as I was claiming to be. But no one knew dunn is town then. unless if dunn is not town and he was tailered, but I would not shoot him if I was aligned with him

The only thing that happened so far with the bloodpact was mod messaging me confirming me that it was "formed". But they can't clarify what it means.

like we made an oath or something cause that's what bloodpact means and that will relate our slots in some way. And I just found it scummy as hell and wanted it gone. I wanted to counter play both dunn and roden couple plays here cause I saw roden contradictions and dunn action and Roden could not be shot cause of his reflexive. So To me the choice was clear. I had to try it and I did.

Why would a scum dunn not get any BP for themself if they were 3p and tailored? That also makes 0 sense. So only conclusion now is that dunn flip was true and roden is still lying his ass off. dunn skill should also have been a utility that somehow effects my slot when I die cause he did right before night phase of which I was claiming I'll die.

Also its pretty much confirmed that I'm saying the truth about leaving the game and not dieing and getting revived from all the reasons I shared before about it. so you can't even think that I died and came back or some shit. I was never revived cause I never died.

So yeah. make your own conclusions

[Frozen Angel]

I ruined any play roden could do to continue his lie by shooting dunn and by dunn flipping and with my disappearing act

he is literally in checkmate state mechanically

[Frozen Angel]

Also its pretty much confirmed that I'm saying the truth about leaving the game and not dieing and getting revived from all the reasons I shared before about it. so you can't even think that I died and came back or some shit. I was never revived cause I never died.

for this check post 0 of game, and open Dead spoilers where it shows everyone flip. It shows everyone flip and revive for me its just an error 404ed out of game and no revive.

cant be more straightforward confirmed than that.

[Frozen Angel]

The fact that you're just reaffirming my point and somehow not realizing it speaks volumes tbh.

the fact that you try to discredit the case against you like this is hilarious tbh.

I was not reaffirming your points your points cant reach the conclusions you made. Everything is logically flawed about your reasoning

so no

[Frozen Angel]

The fact that you're just reaffirming my point and somehow not realizing it speaks volumes tbh.

the fact that you try to discredit the case against you like this is hilarious tbh.

I was not reaffirming your points your points cant reach the conclusions you made. Everything is logically flawed about your reasoning

so no

What exactly are you accusing me of being then...?

Scum? 3P? I already proved I'm neither and you haven't refuted that. You just keep repeating that I'm a liar.

You can be either and I said so why? Do you have issues reading my text? cause it appears that way.

All this noise that you are trying to make. "You did, no you didn't, you did, no you didn't, ..." trying to distract everyone from the factualities here.

@Everyone Roden must be eliminated today. He is by every definition a caught scum. If you refuse to, you're seriously game throwing. For the love of god, his entire game play is contradictions. Even him trying to discredit the case against him is filled with contradictions, for one he admits that he lied and tries to say lies can be done without player being scum and then he insists that his info was accurate about dunn not being town and not viggable and that its a bastard game. Like for the love of god, it cant be a lie and not a lie by his claim at the same time. AND WE KNOW IT WAS A LIE so him insisting that it ain't means he is continuing to play anti town.

He can be group scum and he can be evil 3p. He cant be anything else at this point. Look at his reaction when pushed today and his excuses?! Look at his fake theater trying to redirect attention elsewhere to me and mastina? Neither pushes he made after getting pressured doesn't even make any sense. His push back on my slot and shading me cause of me not suspecting dunn skill that is done by "evil intent" for example. Or his directly blaming me for dunn green flip when he literally is still claiming he has a guilty on the vampires to push further his anti town agenda?

And its known for a fact that he is indeed an executioner and wanted dunn eliminated in day with all his countless lies and contradictions about the slot not being viggable and then claiming intent to BG it or what not. Its proven he just wanted the slot eliminated and never had any intent to sort it for real like he was acting to. Its in literal contradiction with how he was claiming he has a town wincon in addition to be executioner. He never wanted to sort he slot cause he immediately lied about the alignment and never fixed that even when claiming they'll leave game if we execute dunn.

After this execution must be roden. If you're not voting this lier you're game throwing

[Frozen Angel]

Sneak hood just cracked wide open...I may have a hard guilty.

Wasn't even hard to find.

I said "may" because at the time Dunn was freaking out in the hood when I asked if he was town-aligned, which Angel admitted happened. I made it clear it wasn't a guilty when we explained the situation after that post. Why are you ignoring that?

. I said vampires aren't town-aligned, that's it

I mean roden are you even trying?

You said specifically that vampires aren't town.

Not town-aligned =/= guilty. I asked Dunn multiple times if he could town side. Why are you ignoring that as well?

He flipped town you were saying he is not town

This simply proves everything about what you did yesterday was an act. and you're still acting. You were acting like you're sorting him between good 3p, evil 3p and group scum. You were not cause you never had this information that he is not town. In fact you were sure that he is, but you wanted to make everyone including me think that you're sorting that slot after you slipped and made your wincon obvious to us.

Even if he would flip survivor no one would even question you. But

he flipped town and he was vigged. You outright said he isn't town and that he cant get vigged.

You don't want to call it a guilty call it whatever you want. Semantics doesn't matter. What matters is you're proven sabotage and anti-town play that you're not even admitting that you lied there and to explain why. You say you lied and then in same post you blame the game to be bastard and you to had wrong info. In the same freaking post...

[Frozen Angel]

well first thing: nope not doing this challenge

ok so we have

titus masonized lld - lld who fliped town before confirming it
poky who fliped town before and was revived
yume who stole titus role and masonized mastina
me
jjh
shiro
enchant

Also mastina was using an investigative action that she claimed is failed before yume claimed that it was role stopped so there is that too

The only thing that comes to my mine in alternative of scum not being in {jjh, shiro, enchant} is that the masonizer themself is not guaranteed to be town but the masonized one is (and the created masonry is a lie by them), and that would put {titus, yume} in suspect pool respectively I don't think mastina is ever scum here with lld being town and yume clarifying explicitly that mod said that mastina is always town now cause masonized work on them

@Yume I want you to ask several questions from mod that would clarify stuff about titus:

1 - Is this skill only owned by town (the ability to masonize)?
2 - what happens if a scum tries to Steal this role with role steal?
3 - If anyone else uses this role, would that mean they are 100% town themself?

[Frozen Angel]

Also setup spec

The fact that we still have no kills would just suggest one of the two:

1 - the scum has no strongman left (we had that flip but it was only 1x)
2 - something way way more evil is going on like arson or cult or something

I just don't understand this setup. it has so much protection and investigation in it.

[Frozen Angel]

Also, the mod said that mafia could also steal a masonizer, but what happens when they use it is not public knowledge.

thanks for asking.

Can you also ask that the fact that you stole the role from titus means that titus had the exact same role or maybe they could have the scum version of it?

[Frozen Angel]

The key to solving the game is one more flip we never had.

I'm worried about prolonging the game with restrictions as it can end tragically if the case is arson/cult so I'm on same page jjh is in past few pages.

@JJH how sure are you from shiro/enchant

[Frozen Angel]

and yeah this isnt the kinda setup with mod lies in it. and we knew that yesterday and why I was pushing roden to death so hard was that he was insisting otherwise.

[Frozen Angel]

Also, the mod said that mafia could also steal a masonizer, but what happens when they use it is not public knowledge.

thanks for asking.

Can you also ask that the fact that you stole the role from titus means that titus had the exact same role or maybe they could have the scum version of it?

I could, but I doubt I will get an answer.

I don't care, please just question it in as many ways as possible. We need all the info we can have about the situation and to know exactly what we don't know about it if I'm making any sense <3

[Frozen Angel]

so the group of 4 of you: titus mastina you and lld are confirmed as NOT mafia to one another but either one of the 4 can be a scum but not mafia. is that the conclusion you reached?

[Frozen Angel]

well to clarify what I just said it would mean that titus was not mafia at start of game. and Yume and Mastina were not mafia last night

we learn nothing new about LLD as the masonize happened before the kill and revive

[Frozen Angel]

Indeed.

Either way, i am too lazy to make fakeclaim, so deal with fact that i am Sage, i need to survive AND buy more abilities than anyone else in the game. I aligned with self.

I can place spellcounter (Which grants 0.5XP), trade abilities per skill trees and suck up XP from one person i choose(i choose JJH, that's why i know all XP he earn). I also investigated as Town after upgrade.

P.S. I don't have illusions i will survive day, just when i die pls revive, i will aid to my reviver, thanks!

and there goes my correct read about "enchant is not with any mindset of solving the game"

what is spell counter and what will else it does beside granting extra exp

[Frozen Angel]

" i need to survive AND buy more abilities than anyone else in the game. I aligned with self."

is this "and" or "or"? like you need to both survive and do the extra thing?

cause that would make no sense.

[Frozen Angel]

mechanical theorieis

with this claim now I highly doubt we have any kind of cult etc situation

we had only 2 mafia flips and enchant is here as 3p

lets say enchant is telling the truth, then the game lacks one more mafia (the 2 flipped mafia roles doesn't justify them as a faction, they were too weak ...) so lets say 1 more scum exists then it should be a mafia not a cult or another evil 3p and there cant be 2 more scum here with enchant being 3p cause like no ... then town count would be SO LOW

and if enchant is lying then they are either last mafia or an evil 3p. if evil 3p then same logic as above stands, game just would lack 1 extra mafia.

but there is one scenario were enchant is actually mafia and we do have an evil 3p hidden somewhere as well, which can still be the case

mechanically, I really think enchant has to be more than what they claimed.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm really worried about an arson type kind of situation. then all our protections are fake technically and we'll have a massive fall when evil in game is ready to just wipe us all, guess that would be enchant if he is lying. if he is telling the truth then its in mafia faction or something and is instead of their nk

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Enchant

I dont think we can do anything else in this day phase so let me just do the hammer.

I don't think enchant told the truth cause he said that he knows mafia explicitly are ahead of him and they shouldn't know that - it just looked like a slip.

and mechanically them and mastina and possibly shiro having extra wincons and roden? what is this mess of a game? and enchant is the only one who cant town align and is just survivor by claim with all the anti town utilities and is forced to scum side cause of the extra wincon.

So I guess I just hope that he lied. If he didn't that would mean we're probably 1 mafia short to win the game and that one is likely with some crazy skill and is in {jjh, shiro, me} because of masons (I hope they actually checked with mod properly about this)

pedit: lol exactly same thing was observed by mastina too, so I'm 100% sure now that you and mastina share a PT now and didn't have it before cause you would not say the same thing with your scumbuddy like this. not that its an important info but yeah.

[Frozen Angel]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

yes I would not pursue getting him eliminated if he was not continuing to lie and if the lie was not evident for me. at least not immediately - maybe in later days I would suspect him again

[Frozen Angel]

Oh btw JJH there was in fact a 4th skill tree but it was scrapped in set up. Basically there would have been alignment changers and a bunch of other busted roles with it's own PT to chat in. However that was scrapped because I decided to remove alignment changes this game.

I think that could balance the game somewhat, if it was in a controlled manner

[Frozen Angel]

To clarify why I said not to Vig Dunn: I town read him and only wanted him as a backup wincon in case I couldn't win as town later on. I didn't expect Angel to do...literally, anything that she did.

Mate you made the situation a 1v1 between yourself and dun, dun didn't do that. I had an opportunity to remove the chaos around that and I tried to do so.

And if you were so inconsistent with your claims and dodgy about it that triggered me to do it + in addition to that dun weird skill that was used on me that at the time I was assuming it was anti town utility used on a "dieing person"

You said:

1 - he can't be vigged
2 - you will body guard him
3 - you don't know what happens when he is vigged, you might change alignment

non made sense after you changed your story repeatedly.

if I wouldn't shot dun then the next day elimination was either you again or we would eliminate dunn, and then eliminate you a day after delaying the whole thing by a day - knowing you could not get vigged cause of reflexive claim.

[Frozen Angel]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

THIS BOTHERED ME SO MUCH LMAO

No literally a MUP player with a N3 doctor flips at night and everyone wonders what possibly could have happened.

I was not expecting him to heal yume tbh, but guess he did it to stop roden

[Frozen Angel]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

I was already getting voted out for lying, admitting that I lied doesn't change that outcome.

nah you got voted out for continuing to lie and shading others instead of coming clean.

if you were like, yeah I lied about everything, I had no info about vampires just wanted them dead so I played like that yesterday.

you would not be elimed.

you wouldn't. both me and jjh even said that and even tried to make you say that.

but then you went on saying stuff about how the game is bastard and mod lied to you which could not be the case. so your desprate try to keep your lies alive, and telling new lies, just couldn't pass on your elimination on that point.

[Frozen Angel]

What the fuck was dunnstral's blood pact

The mod thought it was funny that I bolded a message saying 'Perform Blood Pact' and put the mtg cards for no reason, so they asked me if the ability should do anything. I said it should inform FA that the blood pact has been performed and do nothing else

and the mod got you shot in the head for that.

I was so tilted when you used it till you flipped

I was like maybe he is scum 3p trying to change me from town that he knows I'm dieing?

so I went and bought and extra BP and shot you

[Frozen Angel]

setup specs:

I think the game had just too many investigative and protective roles. even if scum had enough utility (which they didn't) to do harm, this amount was just simply excessive.

that's why I was thinking we have a massive scum utility like arson or cult in game which we didn't

anyways my role was really fun and I thank you for designing it - even though I'm dumb enough to not knew how parts of it worked (lmao) thanks for modding gingie

<3

[Frozen Angel]

My vig on dunn was the best play I actually did in this game, even though he was town. It saved us at least a day to resolve the 1v1 between you and dunn.

I said you will not flip town cause you didnt try to reason with me. You tried to continue your lie about having information about vampires being scum etc. thats why I said you wont ever flip town. Cause I always respect people play and you just had no reason to continue that lie or play that day the way you did. It was anti town and would only makes sense if you had an other hidden agenda to persue.

shrugs anyway. think whatever you want. game is over whatsoever