Yet another RC 13-player pre-designed setup (released)

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

datisi whats your favorite role

isis whats your favorite role

[RadiantCowbells]

man uh

I can't come up with a non shit setup with these roles

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll just go with this one

Town 1-Shot BP Vengeful
Town Psychologist
Town Night 3 Vigilante
Town Neapolitan
VT*6

Goon
Goon
Goon

[RadiantCowbells]

This is the best I can come up with in terms of a setup that is both balanced and justifies the existence of both of those roles but it feels like it has omega town implosion potential

[RadiantCowbells]

No your favorite role is locked in forever.

[RadiantCowbells]

what.

who the fuck do you think you are vetoing MY setup

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm teasing him ;-;

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah this isn't that confusing

[RadiantCowbells]

ok this setup is passed I'll do role PM's this Wednesday

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok no but actually

Batisi this is not getting passed?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok but what if you pass it anyway

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean if you don't we are right back where we started

But what if we did

[RadiantCowbells]

Gimme ur lunch money noob

[RadiantCowbells]

So how are you guys doing

[RadiantCowbells]

and girls

How is your weekend going?

[RadiantCowbells]

same kinda

have you decided whether you're passing this setup yet

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh

I'm quite sorry to hear that

[RadiantCowbells]

what about now

[RadiantCowbells]

let us know when you are ready

[RadiantCowbells]

Have you become Prepared

[RadiantCowbells]

Psychologist
Tracker
VT*5
Neighbor *2
Mafia Goon
Mafia Neighbor

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless you have a Real favorite role

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh you said bodyguard uh

[RadiantCowbells]

Psychologist
Bodyguard
Odd-Night Tracker
VT *4
Neighbor *2
Mafia Backup Tracker
Mafia Neighbor

[RadiantCowbells]

It's been a long time since I've seen a 9-2 game

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok sure

Psychologist
Night 3+ Vigilante Neighbor A
Night 1/2 Vigilante Neighbor A
Loyal Bodyguard
VT*4
Neighbor B
Neighbor B
Goon
Goon
Goon

[RadiantCowbells]

I can give town a bit more power cuz recent wr not so pog

[RadiantCowbells]

as soon as you're done looking at this one

Bam new setup GG ez

[RadiantCowbells]

I like it as is

I'm mulling over More Power because town winrates not very good but i think that is a solid 55-56% setup for town

[RadiantCowbells]

Though uh the vigs being paired is probably extremely strong invisible power

[RadiantCowbells]

inb4 vig vigs other thing without saying anything

[RadiantCowbells]

I dunno

I should actually figure out the WR in my setups

[RadiantCowbells]

I wrote one like 3 years ago.

It doesn't work anymore for most normal games now because of all the new roles

Did murdercats go off of EV or a towniest-least towny Simulator

[RadiantCowbells]

What I'm actually looking for is my empirical winrate of predesigned setups

[RadiantCowbells]

It also has a tuning function which was fairly accurate at the time but probably would make scumsided setups now

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't trust EV style calculators that think adding VTs dramatically increases scum odds of winning. i don't think they properly simulate the power of nightkills and night actions broadly.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok let's run a cool thought experiment

Say you have a game that starts at 3 players, 2 town 1 scum.
According to base EV that's 33% town winrate.
Take another that starts 5p. 4 town 1 scum.
According to EV town now has 46% chance of winning.

But. Let's think of this another way, how mafia games are played.
Some people are more or less towny and the least towny people are limmed.

If you start at 3p then the scum wins if they are either the middle or the least scummy, so 33% town winrate again.
But now if you start at 5p, since scum nightkill is hitting someone who isn't getting limmed it's hitting at the top of the town list. So effectively town get to eliminate the two scummiest players and at equal likeliness to be in a position town has 40% chance of winning.

[RadiantCowbells]

You'll find that mountainous games in practice that were run off of old style EV were massively scum favored and people just said towns are bad at mountainous. That's not necessarily true it's just that EV doesn't do a good job of capturing how mafia plays. Ugh i don't have my examples ready

[RadiantCowbells]

The tldr is that assuming the interchangeability of players vastly underweights the actual power of the scum nightkill; every person being naked was presumably never getting limmed so the towniest players are chopped off the list and scum don't need to compete with an arbitrary set of players in late game, they need to compete with the least towny ones

[RadiantCowbells]

Interesting fact

13-2 mountainous which was run a few time has 43% EV but was won like half of that by town

My own system gives 42/210 which is very similar to the actual observed wr

[RadiantCowbells]

At least this is stuff i vaguely remember being true

It's been a long ass time since any of this was relevant.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, to my life

[RadiantCowbells]

nightless vanilla best setup yes

nightkill bad

[RadiantCowbells]

are the people in this thread happy with the setup in 49

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh

[RadiantCowbells]

Uh i mean i am theoretically able to give scum like an investigative

[RadiantCowbells]

Or like a Roleblocker Neapolitan Role Cop Joat

[RadiantCowbells]

I gotta say though that I'm not sure if that's the right move.

Psychologist doesn't give innos only guilties and isn't that much power as a result AND has a false guilty condition. The vigs are slightly better than one full vig and the bodyguard is nice but i really do not think this is a setup where town needs to be nerfed

[RadiantCowbells]

Like there's a certain invisible power here to the vig masonry if used properly and i do feel like this leans towards town but i really don't think it's the kind of setup that strictly needs more scum power

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway I'll add the joat if you think it's better

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh

Uh

I think leaving that in is hilarious memes

Do you want me to make them Masons and in doing so take away the skill aspect of them correctly deducing when to claim to each other?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am of the opinion that if town is gonna play like Fro99er then they can lose

[RadiantCowbells]

Like i think that there is room for a fascinating dynamic of that hood

[RadiantCowbells]

Average Normal Queue Player VS Chad Nightless Enjoyer

[RadiantCowbells]

Isis can decide

[RadiantCowbells]

but if say

Isis were to make the wrong decision.

the consequences would never be the same

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually brought it up like years ago and then Mathdino stole it and posted it as it it was his.

I can read myself saying in the past and modelled around this but have no recollection of where this data is from: scum tend towards the middle moreso than the bottom. In 2018-2019 town were also doing fairly well in general and my 'dice' weighting reflects that but would probably need to be changed for the present, but with the number of new roles it would need a lot of work to be made usable for normal games again.

[RadiantCowbells]

I too would like to spectate this one

[RadiantCowbells]

and how often do you see 2 vigilantes in the same mini game anyway but oops rc is the designer

Also bro.

BRO.

my normal games are way more normal and standardish than the vast majority of stuff that i see people making what's this RC Is ThE dEsIgNeR cApItAl CiTy bullshit

[RadiantCowbells]

what bro?

I can't hear you over the sound of how many odd/even night vigilante setups I've seen

[RadiantCowbells]

filing a motion to officially and permanently ban Datisi, hereafter referred to in this document as Dateez Nuts, from mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

where the heck r my role pms

[RadiantCowbells]

unspoken rule newest person to nrg has to do role pms

Get cracking while I have a nice cup of tea and argue how Kim possible should have ended with Fire and Irrel on discord

[RadiantCowbells]

where do role PMs be

[RadiantCowbells]

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Vengeful

Hello, and welcome to Mini Normal ####!

You are a

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Vengeful

.

You will survive the first nightkill made against you.

In addition, when you are limmed, you may choose a player to be targeted with a nightkill as well. This will process simultaneously.

You win if all threats to the town are dead, and at least one town player is alive.

Please confirm by responding to this PM stating your role and alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hmm

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you should be asking yourself said question

[RadiantCowbells]

This all sounds super accurate except it was a bulletproof vengeful