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[FugitiveMoose]

Also Meuh mentions Dwlee one time in that entire post when she says "I haven't attempted to sort Dwlee", then lists them as a top suspect and votes them.

Big disconnect between logic and vote to directly go against 3 quick votes on someone else with.

Kind of agree with Gera that it feels like a wall post leading to an easy vote just for the sake of placing a vote.

I'm curious, are you under the impression I'm partnered with MM and defending them by pushing on Dwlee?
Also it clearly wasn't just placing a vote, considering the juicy juicy reactions we got out of it

You hadn't pinged me at all until that vote, I just found it questionable given the post it came with.

I'm also pretty sure MM isn't just scum; he's scum power.

I'm at work and can't read all the new posts, will be home in about two hours.

Would you be willing to expand on your theory about scum power.

There's just something about MM that I can't bring my self to a day one vote/elimination.

I realize casting a vote towards dwlee vs MM will look bad, specially if dwlee flips town and MM scum. MM is right in the middle, I'm going to do ISO on him, and see if anything sticks out.
In the meantime if anyone whats to give a rundown on their view of MM... that would be appreciated.

Side note, I'm used to mafia games getting up to 32 pages with 16 player over the course of the whole game... I was not expecting this much activity... ON DAY ONE... So, I was super naive

[Crescent]

A game this size on average goes over 1,000 posts in a 48 hour day 1 that I'm used to... So this game is moving in slo-mo for me. I believe there have been a couple of games from several years in the past that crossed the 10,000 post threshold before all was said and done.

Anyways, MM's incredible overdefensiveness towards any kind of suspicion led me to that feeling. He's outright discredited any scum read on him as not genuine. It's petty and childish. It vibes with feeling "important".

The strong scum feel is because he's making posts that no town should ever be making, and he's making them with conviction. He's either scum or he's embarrassing himself. There is no good reason for town to be acting in the extreme anti-town manner he is acting. He basically will not contribute to the game under pressure.

Fun fact about your DWLee vote though: If Scorpious had voted there, where he said he had sus, and not on MM, "to advance the game", the vote would be tied right now. It's just another example of how Scorpious just isn't coming from a town mindset at all.

Frankly your reason for voting DWLee was good anyway. Better than the nonsense he gave in his "rule of 3".

[MonkeyMan576]

I play better when I have actual information to work off of.

[geraintm]

I hate Meuh's vote kn Dwlee. I don't see any build up to it, and then they use other people wanting to pressure them to justify their vote. It won't go anywhere, that isn't a wagon that is likely to happen anytime soon. It feels like a "I wanna be seen doing something"

It comes right after a wagon is forming is another player....so large naughty point for you

VOTE: meuh

I disagree. I think it's a wagon that can definitely happen. What do you think about the wagon that is forming on another player. Both the wagoners and the wagonee.

i just like noting when i see a wagon forming and someone tries to start something else. i file it away for later....

[geraintm]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

i would have hoped for better than this for a vote pushing someone to 5

[geraintm]

Also, I hate Ger’s style of play. That clouds me on my reading of them. I’m never right about them.

sorry. if it helps i am town.

and i tried to be better day 1 this game but the weekend robbed me of momentum, but i have tried calling more people out and i am happy placing genuine votes this game, rather than what i did last time.

[geraintm]

Dwlee has been on my radar for a while.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the early voting on someone after they have been mention in a unfavorable way. I'm feeling that it is a more of a scum move than a town move. Ex. casting a vote around and seeing if it gets traction on someone. Trying not to be too late on the wagon as well.
You're allowed to vote without a reason, when there is a lot of discussion going on about the person your voting and you agree. but continuing to cast a vote without giving a reason is suspicious.
Dwlee, also left the vote on Itailiano after the replacement for a little too long.
I also believe that the vote on MM was only after pressure and a wagon build up on dwlee.

For that reason

VOTE: VOTE: Dwlee

im realy noting this, further attemps to not have a MonkeyMan wagon go through and instead Dwlee

[Roden]

I play better when I have actual information to work off of.

What is this in reference to?

[Dwlee99]

After reading I will admit that 636 is good if dwlee is town. I think we go with MonkeyMan today and see if there is resistance there. Probably Gamma would be a good counterwagon.

@dwlee: Are you generally a better Day 2 and beyond player?

I think my skillset is more geared towards finding town later in the game, but my play this phase is completely lackluster even with that in mind, probably because I haven't gotten "into it"

[Dwlee99]

This has given me the slight advantage of knowing my alignment while people push me for sucking, so let's see here.

This is unofficial

Doodle God (2010) - Badim

MonkeyMan576

(4): ItalianoVD, Roden, Dwlee99, Scorpious

Dwlee99

(3): Meuh, Gamma Emerald, FugitiveMoose

Scorpious

(2): Titus, MonkeyMan576

ItalianoVD

(1): Uncle Vanya

Meuh

(1): geraintm

Not Voting

(2): Carcalilly, Crescent
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Unofficial vote count.

So let's examine a couple scenarios and see what we can glean from it. If Monkeyman is scum, then some of Meuh/Gamma/Moose seem motivated to lim me over monkeyman just because they don't want their buddy to die. I think this is a fairly "obvious" conclusion especially because Gamma seemed to shade both of us but vote me, and Meuh had very little to say about me but contributed to my wagon.

If the team is Monkey/Gamma/Meuh that would be epic and cool but the chance of that are fairly low, so I'm gonna talk through some other stuff.

There's another subtle effect of people joining the wagons on me AND monkeyman: I believe they are forming a type of counter to Scorpious. I can see scum piling onto both of us in streams if we are both town. This could indicate Scorpious scum in some convoluted way.

I think flipping monkey would be the most informative fmpov regardless of color cause if town I think it can be telling about Scorpious' alignment (that is, the pairing is probably SvT or SvS) and if monkey is scum then I suspect meuh and Gamma on my wagon

[Scorpious]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

Who do you actually have "real input" on being scum?

I’m struggling to find Dwlee town, they usually aren’t so wishy washy.

Titus bothers me. Came in, said some things about a hood, made a push on me it didn’t stick, *poof*.

You give me scummy vibes a little too.. just I’m a nagging way like they’re is something obvious that I’m just over looking.

Funny how I mention Scorpious shaded me 600 posts ago, and he immediately shades me again, yet gives no reasoning this time. However, that's not what's glaring to me.

Do you guys use rule of 3? This is very much a "rule of 3 post". Last time I saw one this bad it ended up in the scum who posted it getting dayvigged.

Anyway, Scorpious, in much worse fashion than DWLee, stops short of directly calling MM scum, but votes him anyway. A Scorpious vote on DWLee, who he claims is on his sus list, puts them just 1 vote behind MM, with Meuh as a solid player leading that train.

He ignores that the push on him didn't stick because he blatantly softed power in two seconds. He also ignores that Titus is still voting him because she's still sure he is scum.

Alarm bells going off in my head right now. Scorpious effectively vanished for 2+ days with virtually no content, then came back with a "Well I don't *think" he's scum, but I guess I have no choice" vote on MM, then puts out this "Well these three people are kind of bothering me" post that commits to absolutely nothing that often comes from scum.

MM is -2, but this day is not ready to end. Scorpious and MM both have very high scum equity, but I *do not* think it's both of them. Scorpious' MM vote was bad. His response to my inquiry following that vote was worse. I need time to think on this - I feel like these players are actively trying to out-scummy the other, and this is turning into a "fun" day 1 scenario where there's no reason to think either of two players are town but it doesn't make any sense for both to be scum.

UNVOTE: MM

I may just be overthinking this, but these two posts from Scorpious have me paranoid. I'm going to sleep on it.

I noticed your default- Well, anything is to accuse someone of throwing shade. You keep doing it, Ironic as you had a paragraph of directed at Italiano

I also feel that phrase has become severely over used and has lost its meaning. Telling you I have a nagging feeling about you is not throwing shade.

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee has been on my radar for a while.
The thing that sticks out to me the most is the early voting on someone after they have been mention in a unfavorable way. I'm feeling that it is a more of a scum move than a town move. Ex. casting a vote around and seeing if it gets traction on someone. Trying not to be too late on the wagon as well.

Who did I do this on?

You're allowed to vote without a reason, when there is a lot of discussion going on about the person your voting and you agree. but continuing to cast a vote without giving a reason is suspicious.

I am enigma

Dwlee, also left the vote on Itailiano after the replacement for a little too long.

This doesn't follow at all

I also believe that the vote on MM was only after pressure and a wagon build up on dwlee.

For that reason

VOTE: VOTE: Dwlee

I don't think I had a wagon when I voted MM, just a vote?

[Scorpious]

And it’s very obvious you asked the question with all this cocked locked and ready to go..

The follow up, not the asking, is what is re-enforcing this suspicion in my head.

[Dwlee99]

FugitiveMoose's post is actually exactly what I'd expect scum who were told "idk just give a read and vote someone!" by teammates would post hmm

[Dwlee99]

675 is also bordering TMI or town knowing they're making the wrong decision but doing it anyway

[Dwlee99]

Monkeyman has so many plausible partners it just furthers my read there. On the flip side you can ask basically "who would dwlee be partnered with" and you only really get like Roden / Maybe Scorpious and a non-voter

[Scorpious]

I’m struggling to really put Dwlee as scum here.

I feel like I’d vote Crescent first.

[Dwlee99]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

[Scorpious]

The last 3 posts are much more town you.

[Crescent]

Here’s my deal on D1 wagons..

Where did this whole wagon on MM start? Who started it? Why did they start it?

My point are these are three variables that must be accounted for, and it’s almost impossible to have that information.

I’m joining the wagon because it’s a way to advance the game . I have no real input on if this is scum or not.

Pedit- I’m bad at this, and that kinda sounds like what i would say if I was flailing.


VOTE: MM

i would have hoped for better than this for a vote pushing someone to 5

As would I.

Funny that Scorpious is calling me scum now for pointing out his lacking.

[Crescent]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

Yet he didn't vote you and instead voted a guy he "had no read on".

And now he's calling the person who called him out on how scummy that behavior was

"Hmmm".

[Dwlee99]

The last 3 posts are much more town you.

Fair

[Crescent]

FugitiveMoose's post is actually exactly what I'd expect scum who were told "idk just give a read and vote someone!" by teammates would post hmm

This is a fair point and I concede could be exactly what happened if you're town.

[Scorpious]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

Yet he didn't vote you and instead voted a guy he "had no read on".

And now he's calling the person who called him out on how scummy that behavior was

"Hmmm".

Who’s being defensive now?

[Crescent]

I was under the impression you suspected me last page

Yet he didn't vote you and instead voted a guy he "had no read on".

And now he's calling the person who called him out on how scummy that behavior was

"Hmmm".

Who’s being defensive now?

Amused that you'd call this defensive when I'm fileting you~

It fits right in line with your pattern of recent scummy behavior. The fact that your vote is still on MM, who you've said you have no read on, is not town behavior at all. It was so bad it made me question everything on a train I was leading.

Town you should've been on DWlee last night, and it should be on me now. It feels like you're putting up a facade to distance yourself from the vote you actually did make.

To sum it up

"I don't think this guy is scum but I'll vote him anyway"

"You know you could've just voted the top person on your supposed scumlist and put them only 1 vote behind, right?"

"Oh well you're scum for pointing this out".

This is not organic thought process coming out of Scorpious.