Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 9:53 pm

Post by furtiveglance »

Ok. I might re-read day 1 and try and get a feel of who I'd reveal and who I'd nightkill. Nightkilling the BP player is obviously a no-go, so I'd be targeting the most likely player to be informed of another player's role.
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 9:57 pm

Post by Cat.Jpeg »

In post 545, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 541, Cat.Jpeg wrote:
In post 535, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 514, furtiveglance wrote:Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there. I think Goldfish is the most town for me.

I would like to inform Goldfish.

VOTE: Goldfish
I'd generally agree here. There's a part of me that's slightly hesitant though because Goldfish was ultimately on a town wagon I thought was quite bad...but I get not everyone on said wagon is going to be scum and players do make mistakes. Will put my vote on Goldfish for now, but I am open to alternative ideas/suggestions if anyone has them. However, struggling to think of too many players I'm entirely confident on here to be informed.

VOTE: Goldfish
Guys lets not get hasty, the mafia probably have their NK on who they think will get informed and will be trying to get that person voted. So I reckon goldfish might be dying soon, other possibilities are malcolm and flea. I was originally going to sit back and watch anyone overly eager to get someone informed but if I wait for everyone to give their opinion goldfish will probably be voted by then.
I would rather we vote furtive
but ive been considering the possibility that the scumread on titus then the turnaround might have been orchestrated for town cred but avoid being acused of TMI but i will need to read some stuff again to determine if that seems likely. We could also vote me :)

Also its kinda interesting that we got inform, i was not expecting that.
Surely Furtive would also be at risk of elimination in the night phase if they are town though? If they aren't mafia then they are making an active effort to solve and figure out the game here. I don't think their elimination (if not mafia) is any less likely than that of myself/Goldfish/Flea here.
Remember, it's not as if mafia knew overnight who we'd potentially want to inform
- so it would quite frankly just be complete coincidence if they happen to hit Goldfish in the night, to give an example. And ultimately I'm not sure I'd want to go for a less trusted player because there's then surely a greater chance that said player ends up turning out to be mafia.

I take your point re a possible Furtive turnaround, it's something I've very much not ruled out...but then if that's your concern, surely you'd be wary to give Furtive the inform ability?
Responding to bold. I think they would base if off of who they though would be the most likely to get informed, which I doubt is furtive. Yes furtive is trying to solve and poses a threat but as mafia wouldnt you try to stop the chance of a definitively confirmed immortal townie and leave the flip-floppy speculators for another day.
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 10:01 pm

Post by GoldfishFromTheMoon »

Keep in mind that the informed and BP could end up being the same person, mafia might have intentionally picked the person they thought most likely to be informed to be informed, so that it makes them look kinda sussy like a mafia when they say the only thing they learned was that they are town.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 10:08 pm

Post by Cat.Jpeg »

true, but honestly if that happened i would be inclined to believe them, it would be slightly worse. Also I just thought of something, what if bulletproof is actually the most scummy-looking town and mafia are banking on them getting eliminated today, but if they dont get eliminated it will be especially useful to town because we dont just get confirmation of a town read we already had. more wifom
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 10:09 pm

Post by GoldfishFromTheMoon »

Oh wow I never thought of it that way.
Let's just hope the mafia didn't either.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 10:21 pm

Post by Cat.Jpeg »

I find it humorous that because Titus was NK'd it's almost like we didn't eliminate twice. They would hate that. Im going to look at the game again with the knowledge 2 people knew Titus was the nightkill. The final vote count has me, furtive, malcolm, and alianna not voting titus but i dont think thats too useful because i think the mafia (at least one of them) ended up voting titus in the end to avoid getting voted themselves (rr or dunnstral). Also once again I townlean alianna for how absurd it was for them to unvote on Titus. Early in the game though might yeild more information.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 10:37 pm

Post by Cat.Jpeg »

I thought inform would be really OP but in order from most impactful to least the mafia can: get the BP elimmed, get one of the mafia informed, NK the informed, get the informed elimmed (highly unlikely but possible), or get the BP to be informed so they just have a townread of themselves (which if one of the mafia were informed they would probably pretend this is what had happened or give a townread of their partner), to soften the blow to them.
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 11:48 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 556, Cat.Jpeg wrote:I thought inform would be really OP but in order from most impactful to least the mafia can: get the BP elimmed, get one of the mafia informed, NK the informed, get the informed elimmed (highly unlikely but possible), or get the BP to be informed so they just have a townread of themselves (which if one of the mafia were informed they would probably pretend this is what had happened or give a townread of their partner), to soften the blow to them.
Why would they hate that?

We're at evens right now.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 11:54 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Should have quoted 555
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Wed May 11, 2022 11:59 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 534, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 530, Dunnstral wrote:I wasn't pushing Titus until the end when she came at me when she lied to try to push me

I even said I didn't think what they were doing was scummy right before that.

I agree with RR in
This only makes you look worse to me though. It suggests you were voting for Titus to go out not because you necessarily read them as scum, but just because they were trying to push you. I understand it's frustrating if Titus twisted the truth to suspect you, but in my experience scum try to look less deliberately scummy than that. I get the first turn is difficult but not keen on someone being on the Titus wagon solely due to how they individually were read by Titus.
I voted them because they were lying to push me, not just because they scumread me.

If you think scum don't do that, then you should have told that to me yesterday before Titus was eliminated. I don't think town do that, so I voted for Titus.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:02 am

Post by Dunnstral »

And I understand that misunderstandings are a thing, but this wasn't one. I pointed out how what Titus was saying was false, and instead of responding to me at all they started blaming everybody else and saying that the game was hopeless, and calling me a lurker again.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:10 am

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: Dunnstral

This is the best vote. You guys might not like it, but it's true. Mafia are very unlikely to have confirmed my alignment

It also makes things a lot simpler. All you have to do is figure out whether I am town or not. Whereas a vote for Goldfish means we need to figure out both if goldfish is town, and if furtive/malcolm/whoever are mafia trying to push it onto the townie who is also the bp,
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:19 am

Post by furtiveglance »

What if we think you aren't town? I also think Malcolm and Goldfish are both town, and they're the other people who voted Goldfish with me.
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:30 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 562, furtiveglance wrote:What if we think you aren't town?
Going to need more than "bad vibes" at this stage of the game.
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:44 am

Post by furtiveglance »

You're voting for yourself to receive important info instead of being a team player. I don't like that.
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 12:52 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Why don't you like that?

How is voting for myself not "being a team player"?
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:00 am

Post by furtiveglance »

You need to be aware of how you're perceived and why. That's the first step to being involved in the town. If you just push your own agenda and ignore us all the time, it's not easy townread you. You didn't really engage with my idea of giving Goldfish the info, what do you think about that? I get that you prefer yourself, but do think Goldfish is scum? Or just a likely nightkill target? What's the issue here.
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:10 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I'm not comfortable with:

1) Following early consensus

Because:

1b) I am worried we will target a town player who will see themselves as town. Which is not inherently clearing information, as mafia can lie about that as well

And:

2) Following the opinions of those who pushed to skip the elimination yesterday

Because:

2b) Skipping the elimination was wrong and I explained why.

I think that the elimination landing on Titus who was also the choice for night kill changes things. There's only been one death out of 3. I didn't like the idea of 2 deaths out of 3 because mafia could force it to evens anyway. In the end, we ended up at evens by sheer chance. I would not normally have voted for Titus yesterday.

So that was kind of rambly but I think that mafia were both pushing to not eliminate and pushing somebody besides Titus yesterday.

As for Goldfish, I lean town.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:26 am

Post by furtiveglance »

You think me/Malcolm is the pair then? If not who is it? Your idea of what maf were doing day 1 doesn't fit the profiles of any of my scumreads.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:39 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

In post 563, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 562, furtiveglance wrote:What if we think you aren't town?
Going to need more than "bad vibes" at this stage of the game.
A case against you has already been outlined on a number of occasions, I wouldn't be comfortable with this at all in the slightest to be honest.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:41 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

In post 566, furtiveglance wrote:You need to be aware of how you're perceived and why. That's the first step to being involved in the town. If you just push your own agenda and ignore us all the time, it's not easy townread you. You didn't really engage with my idea of giving Goldfish the info, what do you think about that? I get that you prefer yourself, but do think Goldfish is scum? Or just a likely nightkill target? What's the issue here.
Yes this is my concern - Dunn appears more desperate to just get the info themselves instead of willingly engaging with alternative choices beyond Goldfish if they don't want them to be informed here. Dunn surely TR's more than one player here - if that's the case, why not suggest they are informed? We're not going to get anywhere if the game is just full of players all wanting to be informed themselves.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:42 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

I'm not at all convinced Cat is town for example but I thought their engagement was mostly okay and useful, even if I didn't necessarily completely agree with them on their logic re Furtive.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:43 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

Although a part of me does wonder if this is a bit bold from scum Dunn? I don't know, I guess if we have an Alianna/Dunn team (which would be my best bet at the moment), it would be feasible for one of the two of them to want to push receiving the inform role just to give a big push and see what happens.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:46 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

In post 567, Dunnstral wrote:I'm not comfortable with:

1) Following early consensus

Because:

1b) I am worried we will target a town player who will see themselves as town. Which is not inherently clearing information, as mafia can lie about that as well

And:

2) Following the opinions of those who pushed to skip the elimination yesterday

Because:

2b)
Skipping the elimination was wrong and I explained why.


I think that the elimination landing on Titus who was also the choice for night kill changes things. There's only been one death out of 3. I didn't like the idea of 2 deaths out of 3 because mafia could force it to evens anyway. In the end, we ended up at evens by sheer chance. I would not normally have voted for Titus yesterday.

So that was kind of rambly but I think that mafia were both pushing to not eliminate and pushing somebody besides Titus yesterday.

As for Goldfish, I lean town.
But ultimately we managed to get through the town by only eliminating one townie when your approach could have easily seen three town players eliminated in one go if we'd guessed correctly. With what happened D1 I'm more convinced than I was early on when I was uncertain that we probably made the right choice by not going all-out and eliminating two players. Could have been a complete disaster if we'd done so and hit two town who weren't the scum night-kill. I'm fundamentally struggling to look at posts like these and see them as pro-town.
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Thu May 12, 2022 1:48 am

Post by MalcolmTucker »

In post 573, MalcolmTucker wrote:
In post 567, Dunnstral wrote:I'm not comfortable with:

1) Following early consensus

Because:

1b) I am worried we will target a town player who will see themselves as town. Which is not inherently clearing information, as mafia can lie about that as well

And:

2) Following the opinions of those who pushed to skip the elimination yesterday

Because:

2b)
Skipping the elimination was wrong and I explained why.


I think that the elimination landing on Titus who was also the choice for night kill changes things. There's only been one death out of 3. I didn't like the idea of 2 deaths out of 3 because mafia could force it to evens anyway. In the end, we ended up at evens by sheer chance. I would not normally have voted for Titus yesterday.

So that was kind of rambly but I think that mafia were both pushing to not eliminate and pushing somebody besides Titus yesterday.

As for Goldfish, I lean town.
But ultimately we managed to get
through the town
by only eliminating one townie when your approach could have easily
seen three town players eliminated in one go if we'd guessed correctly
. With what happened D1 I'm more convinced than I was early on when I was uncertain that we probably made the right choice by not going all-out and eliminating two players. Could have been a complete disaster if we'd done so and hit two town who weren't the scum night-kill. I'm fundamentally struggling to look at posts like these and see them as pro-town.
Through the turn, this should read, and if we'd guessed incorrectly. I'm horrendous for typos, churn out posts too quickly sometimes.
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