Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[humaneatingmonkey]

anyway that's a lie, i'm a VT

[humaneatingmonkey]

pedit
that's supposed to be a vote

i won't be able to play the game until 30 so i'm just gonna trust you guys to soulread me and know i'm telling the truth
JV is

lying

yeet this now or tomorrow and forever

[humaneatingmonkey]

@HEM

why would I, if I were scum, 1 for 1 you given my position and the flipped scum prior.

so you can make this stupid gambit.

i hate that you're taking this route. what happened to just plain old 1v1-ing me and framing every post i made as scum? chivalry is dead.

[humaneatingmonkey]

fuck i can't get over you being scum you basically was trying to pocket me all day 1 i was blind to that

[humaneatingmonkey]

so you fought off the andre flashwagon because you are partners
of course

[humaneatingmonkey]

@HEM

why would I, if I were scum, 1 for 1 you given my position and the flipped scum prior.

so you can make this stupid gambit.

i hate that you're taking this route. what happened to just plain old 1v1-ing me and framing every post i made as scum? chivalry is dead.

Scum doesn't benefit from a 1 for 1. Town does, why would scum!me do it even if I was doing it to make this specific "gambit" as you call it. To get a VT dead?

>.>

probably you think i was TPR. happens all the time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

good claim btw, it gave you gunsmith cover and people just assumed you were town
genius

[humaneatingmonkey]

no seriously i cant be bothered right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

just pump the breaks on any attempts on a flashelim on me. im town. JV is lying scum.
if you guys "accidentally" flashwagon me, the hammer is a scum claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you do flashwagon me, prepare for "oh it was a gambit i really believed he was scum"
nah yeet that

[humaneatingmonkey]

lying scum
lying scum
lying scum
lying scum
lying scum
lying scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah dude just deploy wifom maybe that will save you for when i flip green and people vote you out.

[humaneatingmonkey]

goodbye. remember: jv is lying scum and you should yeet that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

fucking hate this

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh yeah right "to solve me"

[humaneatingmonkey]

just do what you gotta do quick and yeet the lying scum. the partner will probably distance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And here you said I was charming. I should've known you were trying to butter me up.

yeah right an irrelevant comment from the early game to really hammer in the scum case
really townie approach, bud

[humaneatingmonkey]

just pump the brakes until 30 please
i want to go down fighting, not unable to respond properly because of my schedule

[humaneatingmonkey]

april 30

[humaneatingmonkey]

i at least want to re-read the game and give it proper effort

[humaneatingmonkey]

we have 7 days for a day...

[humaneatingmonkey]

im willing to do that. feels weak to replace out now. feels even weaker to be limmed for bogus shit. i at least want a confident solve before i go.

[humaneatingmonkey]

alright JV if you're just doing a gambit, just give me fucking time alright

i know im just being pressured right now by scum because im such an easy slot to attack as im not at my 100%

but just give me some time

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you did that in your wall post, i didn't read it

because i cant. im really busy.

please just give me a fighting chance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

guys im an easy picking right now

understand that

analyze it

if you want some vulnerability, i'm gonna go ahead and admit that i'm not gonna jeopardize my scum w/l record by staying in a losing game if i'm mafia here (people have been suspecting me since D1, and i'm unable to give my best game because i'm swamped).

[humaneatingmonkey]

alright those are my last words before april 30, i really need to get back to work

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not yet back, still busy. proejct extended. i understand i promised, but what can i do.

this is wtf

Prodding humaneatingmonkey and ItalianoVD

Dang I didn't even know I was gone that long.

Prodding humaneatingmonkey and ItalianoVD

Also, don't read into this. It's coincidental.

i think there's an effort from italiano to tie us together

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also notice the game slowed down after i asked to leave

if the theory is scum was intentionally muddying the waters day 1, this means scum momentum died D3 because i'm the lined up miselim and they're struggling to find another target

[humaneatingmonkey]

so i think scum will be at the side of those still trying to still get me elimmed

which gives me confidence that Roden is town here for defending me in my absence

[humaneatingmonkey]

i understand im PoE here, but i also struggle to see why GE would say I'm scum for finding Malakittens scummy. Does he have a clear that we don't know about? I struggle to see why anyone would look at Malakittens play here and lock her as town to the depths of pushing people who found her scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i've been thinking about JV's gambit over the past days and the crumbs he laid out for us. his crumbs came before any gunsmith role was claimed. i think it's real. if scum was informed, this would be nullified but i think this is just town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

FWIW i was also faking my koopa scum read and the declaration that i will hound them after D1 even if they had a guilty.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's enough game advancing content for now. I'll return later.

[humaneatingmonkey]

should we massclaim?

i think GE and Malakittens are paired. i dont know if mason. i dont know if neighbors. i dont know if scum. but at the risk of sounding like i'm baiting PRs, i'm gonna go ahead and say that if they're not masons — they're probably scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don’t know what you guys are all on about. I’m clearly Town and this is fake. What is going on right now?

I’m here to answer any questions anyone wants to ask.

I think I should claim yeah? I’m Vigilante and I targeted koopashell because I thought they were full of shit. There, I said it. You geniuses.

riggggggggggggggggggggggghtttttttttttttttttttttttt

the only problem i have with that is this

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think malakittens, if andres' partner, won't rebuff andres' fakeclaim like this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think the play would be to sit back and see what reactions it would get from other people
unless it's been pre-agreed that malakittens will bus (i can see that world because andres' slot is basically fucked)
but it's more probably that malakittens is town in this scenario

which probably means GE is informed about Malakittens alignment. his townread on malakittens is based on her ate and i think it's been established that she does that as both scum and town

[humaneatingmonkey]

anyway that's enough of that i'll come back later for real

[humaneatingmonkey]

it could also be that a planned Andres bus was in the works since D1

[humaneatingmonkey]

Andres was obviously going to be tracked/checked because he was lurking and he was a top suspect, so maybe it was planned that he goes down with the PRs — seeing as he was trying to bait a vigilante claim. also, i think scum is scared of a double-guilty since there were two active investigatives. a sacrifice would have been the play.

[humaneatingmonkey]

btw im going to hammer italiano at E-1 so i dont have to be the elim just gonna put that out there

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think GE and Italiano are not paired

I think GE, if scum, was just trying to pocket town Malakittens so he can build a coalition against me and opportunistically jumped on town!Italiano's wagon when that fizzled out

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also find GE's progression on me weird, since he was townreading me before he decided that me finding Malakittens scummy is scummy

that, and this is FL's slot

i think if Italiano flips town, GE is scum. and if Italiano is scum, GE isn't paired with them (otherwise GE would have went for anyone else in the lim pool).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Italiano, claim

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's E-1

[humaneatingmonkey]

GE, Kitty, Roden, Mala

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: IVD

I HARDCLAIM VIGILANTE

[humaneatingmonkey]

so i'm not a vigilante

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm back btw, project is done. i'll start re-reading later, i just need to get some sleep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

based on?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Malcolm

What makes you look at the voting patterns so far and make you think I am mafia? Why do I sit off both the Scorpious and Italiano wagon, making a strong defence for both? I was defending Jackson as town from as soon as they made their claim because it should have been pretty obvious in retrospect that they were town. If you are town you should be looking at Kitty or HEM here, unless you have an alternative idea at all.

mafia deliberately chose to keep someone off the wagon as a misdirect on D2

lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

scum really likes ratting themselves out don't they

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM was essentially able to ride out that turn but basically just came back without reading the game again to eliminate another townie.

blatant misrep

[humaneatingmonkey]

show us your results

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM essentially forcing the role reveal there is suspect

lol i didnt make you do anything you claimed jailkeeper yourself

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ah then you admit I'm not mafia

[humaneatingmonkey]

Results please

A simple jailkeeper in a world where a gunsmith and tracker already exists and then claiming preemptively with a dash of shade. nope not suspicious at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If in your imagined world, two mafia could have quickhammered you so you claimed... then what does that say about me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

unless I can somehow be convinced of an alternative wagon on someone who's received less attention.

hahaha scuuuum

[humaneatingmonkey]

I tried Kitty D1 and D2 but nothing. In retrospect I imagine someone else perhaps took on the kill, I'd just reckoned at the time Kitty may have been more likely to carry it out than someone like yourself for example.

And still your top suspect is Kitty?

[humaneatingmonkey]

has prompted another claim from town here.

what a frame

[humaneatingmonkey]

and you think this is my purpose why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

let me get this straight

you are a simple jailkeeper in a world where here had already been two investigatives
you had 2 days straight clear of KittyTacky, and they're still your top suspect
you think i'm scum because i hammered two townies, and i forced your claim — even though you preemptively claimed

am i misrepping you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

show crumbs

[humaneatingmonkey]

you had 2 days straight clear of KittyTacky, and they're still your top suspect

and instead of voting me — the guy you didn't have a clear on — you voted the guy you had a 2 days straight clear of

[humaneatingmonkey]

unless I can somehow be convinced of an alternative wagon on someone who's received less attention.

hahaha scuuuum

oh and also... despite being somehow solid in your deduction that it's between me and kitty... both viable wagons today... you are willing to elim elsewhere?

[humaneatingmonkey]

tell me if im manipulating the gamestate or not, because this sure as hell seems like you're scum

show crumbs

[humaneatingmonkey]

No crumbs, MT?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you know by sheeping math on mt that you'll also be sheeping me, hem, the person you want dead, on mt
why do you even want me dead in the first place?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm finding it hard to believe your claim. You have also sat on my slot for all of the game. Do you understand how hard it is for me to see you as town here?

I'll ISO you later.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM has now opportunistically hammered two townies

You keep painting it like that. Both slots I scumread, and both slots were wagons town wanted. Not hammering Italiano there would have likely lead the town towards my wagon. Would you say JV was scum for being in the same wagons as I am? Do you not think I'm good enough to distance from these town flips if I'm scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I now wonder how much of this game is just the town cannibalizing each other meanwhile scum just ride out the waves trying to stoke that fire.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

[humaneatingmonkey]

Again, look at my perspective on this being town - I know that if I am eliminated it is down to 3v2 and that scum will have managed to manipulate the elimination of a claimed role player, which at this stage is quite fucking impressive even if it's immensely, immensely frustrating for me all the same. When I know that's what is happening here I am clearly aware scum are playing a bold and attacking game to try and force a win quickly.

See I think this here is a narrative you would have come up with to avoid an elim if you're scum here — that's why you claimed simple jailkeeper.

while we're on the topic, tell me how your role fits in with the flips

[humaneatingmonkey]

at some point scum ideally need to assert some control of the game

who has control of the game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think you're likely to be today's elim, so I'll just work with you as if you're town mmkay but you have to assume I'm town here otherwise it doesn't work

talk to me about Kitty and Math

I'll go with Kitty first. My case on Kitty - as it has been from the start - is that they have consistently had very similar scum reads on townies in a way that is incredibly convenient in helping them to look like town. If scum, they have consistently been looking for whenever a townie does something contradictory or illogical and used that as an immediate reason to push them.

For example, they voted Scorpious on D1 and suspected them for staying on Koopa after they claimed a role. I pointed out this was an illogical move from Scorpious and more likely to have come from town who just didn't like Koopa's style and wasn't trying too hard. But I get it - this thing happens and it's possible to have incorrect reads every so often.

But they then did the exact same thing with Italiano - and after N3 ended immediately justified their incorrect read again by pointing out that Italiano had sat on NK15 after they claimed. But this - again - ignores the point that'd been made that scum wouldn't want to sit on role claimed players without a solid case against said claim. Their logic was again the exact same here despite the fact I'd pointed out this was in my opinion more likely to come from lazy/uninformed town than scum.

I jailed Kitty D1/D2 but in retrospect I think it's likely they passed the kill over onto someone else. Which is the main thing making me doubt you, or that Math is the definite partner here, given I jailed Math N3, because in such a situation Kitty has been perhaps passing the kill over to someone else who's been less suspected in terms of reads.

Kitty could be scum PR who wouldn't have been affected by your jailing

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes, but WHO? who is the scum who has control of the game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kitty does not control the game
Math does not control the game

and in the topic, I do not control the game

so a scum taking control of the game does not match with your suspects if that's your idea

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's sus is that you would have thought about that. you are obviously intelligent, i don't know where this downplaying came from.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you would have understood what simple meant
you would have understood what a jailkeeper does
like you said it would have been in your role PM

i'm struggling to see how you can be fit in here unless you're really just functionally a doctor and all of the scum is a PR. but we already know andres is a goon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What I will say is your willingness to engage is making you look better to me than before here.

??? I have never been unwilling to engage.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Even FL's slot I continued to play the game as if they were town so I could move on and get a solve on this game and not get in a shitfest

[humaneatingmonkey]

if it's true then Kitty and Math could be both scum PR and your clears on them would be entirely useless

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kitty I share the same read as you do in as much as they're willing to hide behind a fatalistic will that town will never do X. He has been proven wrong with Scorpious but he made the same excuse as Italiano. I can understand that read.
Math, I've been waiting for them to turn online and dominate the game because that's how i experienced them in the large normal, but they never really read the thread. Although, I sympathize because I haven't done that myself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Malakittens is town for their reaction to Andres but them trying to elim me here and trying to strike a deal with Math that they will sheep them on you (while i'm trying to elim you as well) is pretty sus. assuming you're real here, seems like scum going for anything just so they could get into 3v2 and win by getting me out.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like, i understand i'm scapegoat #1 since ever, and I also understand I'm ELO liability

[humaneatingmonkey]

Malakittens also fit the definition of scum riding waves as town cannibilizes itself

[humaneatingmonkey]

GE I think is also likely to be scum here — possibly with Malakittens, but also regardless of Malakittens.

I think I should just read the thread now and get a solid theory of what's happening in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

see you tomorrow

[humaneatingmonkey]

are you masons with Malakittens? are you neighbors with Malakittens? do you have a clear on Malakittens?

[humaneatingmonkey]

your read on her seems too unwaivering just from an AtE that doesn't feel too real for me (which came with an unsolicited self-vote from the most little amount of pressure). it has also established that she does AtE as both scum and town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also don't like how you use my scumread on Malakittens as a convenient license to scumread me
you've also been sitting on my slot since D2, and you've been on both Scorpious and Italiano's wagon, and you've also stopped engaging the thread the moment I asked for a pause on pushes on me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thinking about it I have an uneasy acceptance of Malcolm’s claim. It feels half-synergetic with NK15’s role to a degree.

can you explain this

[humaneatingmonkey]

then tell me why my reasons for scumreading her are wrong

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your assessment is colorful. What need would I have for pushing Malakittens? Why would I decide to throw dirt on you when I saw the chance? Chance for what?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i threw dirt on FL long way before you came here. i threw dirt on you for not being as aggressive with Scorpious (or more accurately, not trying to improve your read on him). i threw dirt on you when i came back April 30. maybe you'll recall.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That seems timed to potentially prevent me from working out your schemes as you could try to act like I was only reacting to your sus on me.

This is funny btw

Trying to prevent you from working out my schemes

Gives me an old Tom N Jerry cartoon picture in my head

[humaneatingmonkey]

what do you think Roden

why dont you stop flirting with the idea of shading me and confront me directly

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kitty I share the same read as you do in as much as they're willing to hide behind a fatalistic will that town will never do X. He has been proven wrong with Scorpious but he made the same excuse as Italiano. I can understand that read.
Math, I've been waiting for them to turn online and dominate the game because that's how i experienced them in the large normal, but they never really read the thread. Although, I sympathize because I haven't done that myself.

You mean how I said I wouldn’t do that as I have been putting in lots of OT at work?

You’re literally just making up shit now.

making what up?

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's also annoying as hell that you keep raising the idea that i'm pocketing you while you're not attempting looking at it yourself. it sorta seems like you're soliciting a scum case so you can have an excuse to go vote me even though you postured about townreading me the whole game.

and also, Italiano was right. Your Malakittens vote after mine was evidence that you were sheeping me and your excuse that it was your own volition and a continuation of your initial vote made no sense since nothing changed on that front.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i feel like i'm scum sponge right now. there's a chance the two remaining scum are exactly in the set of people trying to push me — especially for the most dubious reasons. Math and Kitty is the only one who's pushing me because of PoE and Malcolm is getting soft on my slot even though I'm the most viable elim. so if these are the people that are being pushed as scum today, and they're who i think would be town based on positioning, then this is compatible with a scum-controlled gamestate.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Scum could very well be in {Gamma Emerald, Malakittens, Roden} as posturing to have me elimmed for the most dubious reasons. Roden is a new alternative because of his recent movements.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes but i'm more entertaining a gamestate where town is self-cannibalizing and scum is playing a low-key game. right now, scum's winning strategy is to secure two miselims. that's it. that's what they need to do. who do you think is inching towards that finish line?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think that theory holds up more than any scum trying to control the game because there isn't an obvious answer to that. meanwhile, malakittens is lining up two miselims in a row potentially if MT has a real claim here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm 50/50 on malcolm right now because while that claim is sus, he backed down off my slot and pushed you instead and i think that's out of nowhere and unstrategic for scum to do when humaneatingmonkey is sitting right there being the #1 scapegoat.

[humaneatingmonkey]

math

i sheep u on mt

can u sheep me on HEM tm

pls

this is really opportunistic

[humaneatingmonkey]

it ignores the results of mt's flip, math's alignment, and assumes she lives tomorrow.

this is blatant scum posturing.

only thing holding me back here is their reaction on Andres but a preplanned bus would explain that very well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

thinking about it, there's no real value in flipping Malcolm today because if we give him another night, either mafia confirms it for us, or we potentially get a block (if mafia aren't prs)

VOTE: Malakittens

[humaneatingmonkey]

im thinking 2 scum prs is the answer

[humaneatingmonkey]

Andres being the only goon is compatible with a bus strategy and and two scum prs

[humaneatingmonkey]

haters will say i have no real reads and that i'm only pushing malakittens because i have to

[humaneatingmonkey]

based on?

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's your read on Malakittens, Math?

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM/Malcolm

lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's your scum case on me, Math?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so am i making it up if it's real and observable? did i say you were scum for it, or did your guilty mind just played madlibs?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town by virtue of she’s not dead and no one susses her when sus on her is easy to manufacture.

Why is it no Scum by virtue of she's not dead and no one susses her when sus on her is easy to manufacture?

You’re literally just making up shit now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

My scumcase on you is you’re making small little things to piss people off

right. the best scum strategy in the history of mafia.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's not self-explanatory. tell us why you eliminated that possibility.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You’ve been doing small little things to piss me off to keep me off my game.

what have i done that has kept you off your game? haters will say you're just making this up.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so am i making it up if it's real and observable? did i say you were scum for it, or did your guilty mind just played madlibs?

The shade is what is made up. You’re reaching for anything to survive.

There was no shade. Your guilty ass made that up all by yourself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you have no scum case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i asked for one in D1 and you said you haven't read yet.
and now you are saying you had one all along.

you have no scum case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There was an entire wagon on Mala. Roden, Kitty, and I. Even koopa was there at one point. D2 there's a guilty. D3, Malakittens was unreachable. It's not self-evident.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have explained how I play the game and form reads in thread, you don’t let me do that.

Okay, so explain now. Please. Don't let me stop you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no strategy. You're just scum trying to push little low-hanging fruit me hoping people will sheep you.

"You're not a case person" but in that other game, you went to town on DkKoba and and in that large you have bullied the entire playerlist to bend to your will.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So where's your case on me then?

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's D4 near ELO and i'm one of the likely lims here. i'll expend my energy however i want.

i'm not going math isn't being loud. i'm going math isn't trying to direct the game... and oh look he still doesn't have scum case on me other than I'm annoying. now i think it's self-evident you're bullshitting.

pedit: link to your short case please.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Guys what are we doing

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why are we about to elim the claimed PR

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: mt

Just look at this

this is an opportunist in action

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't like Kitty's reaction
but I also don't like how GE is immediately framing Kitty
That Roden kill feels too much of a setup to frame Kitty if Kitty was scum. If he was scum, I don't imagine them making the kill that would make them look more like scum.
I still think it's either Gamma/Malakittens and Math is pocketed — or it's inside {Malakittens/GE/Math} and they need to reevaluate.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I wouldn't concede as scum like that.

What could you have done?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're saying you wouldn't kill Roden, but who would have been your real choices last night?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Who's Kitty's partner Gamma?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You probably

Well Im not scum so if youre town and you want to find scum, youre gonna have to be more creative than that.

Also it didnt seem like you thought i was scum when you made this post:

Roden and Malcolm both were pushing you
They both flipped town

That would be too obvious.

It's a framing attempt.

Funny you only respond with this AFTER HEM came in to say this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm tired of this game honestly

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just wanna vote out Gamma and if I'm wrong, then that's that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's say Kitty is scum, and you're right that Kitty just killed Roden because he FOS'd him. If he knew he would be dead, why wouldn't he just kill to benefit his partner at that point? Shouldn't it be a set-up to win?

It just doesn't make sense.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gamma I think I'm about to vote you so can you like give yourself a town case and give me a scum team that doesn't include me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I always get this from you and Mala. Why is Math town?

Because from my POV, it's either both you are having a concerted effort to pocket the guy or both of you have been pocketed hard. The belief that Math is town is unshaken.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I didn't understand that. Can you repeat that?

[humaneatingmonkey]

And why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah no I don't think Kitty is likely to be scum here with that kill. See last page. If you're town, you need to be looking at Math/Malakittens.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay I'm done playing good cop

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll vote Gamma today

[humaneatingmonkey]

I've iso'd them and my impression is both have been distant with each other until today. GE placed Kitty on their scum picks since D2, but never grilled towards that way in the way he was today. Similarly, Kitty never addressed GE until today. There wasn't any extended interaction between them that I know of (even FL).

I think there's a non-zero chance of a crossbus and GE was telling the truth about Roden's kill that it was Kitty's decision and that he expected to die. Maybe GE's sudden aggression is a play to secure ELO tomorrow (since Kitty/GE team is a losing one — Kitty has received a lot of heat and GE would be sus if he didn't push Kitty after putting him on his scum list). Maybe that's why GE chose to "pseudo-vote" me over Kitty so it was the easier win because pushing me is still viable option right now. (I'm in everyone's PoE) and Roden's absence means no one is left to defend me.

So no, I don't think it's TvS when it could be SvS.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks for that question, I see now that there's a possibility Kitty is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GE had you in their scum list since D2, but you're right that it's only now that they really tried to engage you. Can you change my mind about a possible partnership between the two of you? Do you have a case against it?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You would also address GE if you were sorting them, which town would usually do. Before now, I don't think there's much evidence that you had GE on your mind or sorting them actively. The idea that you would only address someone if they're on you doesn't track that much for me. Can you tell me what you thought about the slot since D1?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I did. Can you restate (if with quotes, better) your read on Gamma since D1?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Do you mind walking me through why you threw those townreads towards FL/Gamma?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[humaneatingmonkey]

Very sus

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just wanna vote out Gamma and if I'm wrong, then that's that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm town

[humaneatingmonkey]

so we lost

[humaneatingmonkey]

my bad guys

[humaneatingmonkey]

no redactions

[humaneatingmonkey]

guys im an easy picking right now

understand that

analyze it

if you want some vulnerability, i'm gonna go ahead and admit that i'm not gonna jeopardize my scum w/l record by staying in a losing game if i'm mafia here (people have been suspecting me since D1, and i'm unable to give my best game because i'm swamped).

did this really break any rules? is this a real trust tell?

no i dont think so. 1.) it's not a real trust tell of mine. it's a total lie. check my games. it's never been a pattern 2.) i didn't say never/always. 3.) i did not publicly consider or publicly announce a choice to replace out.

Invoking trust tells.

Trust tells have long been a point of confusion, and for good reason - they are one of the most subtle rules we have, and if you don't understand them it's not even clear why they'd be a problem. They act as a form of OGI typically by allowing a player to assert themself as town more strongly than would normally be possible. The subtlety around trust tells comes mostly from their distinction from acceptable self-meta. Self-meta turns into a trust tell when there is an explicit or implicit statement that it would never be broken, or that it would only be broken extremely rarely. Important here, and a distinction from how we've handled things in the past, is that we are extending this to include cases where the person is not intentionally building up a trust tell, but is instead simply pointing out a pattern in their meta that they never intend to break. For example, the following may all constitute trust tells depending on context:

"I will never lie using red text."
"I have never faked a guilty as scum."
"I will always claim my real role."
"I never bus as scum."

Context is very important here. If a relatively new player says that they've never fakeclaimed before, this is not a problem - however, if a player with many dozens of completed games points out the same thing and says that they never fakeclaim as a policy, then every game where they don't lie about this policy increases the credence of their claim. After a certain point, this becomes an unfair advantage because statistically, the more times in a row someone has told the truth about something, the more likely it is that they will always tell the truth about it.

There are a variety of factors that each push something toward being an unfair trust tell: history of having followed the tell, specifically stating that the tell will never be broken in the future rather than merely stating that it's been followed up until now, an explicit advantage (such as being more plausibly town) being gained by people believing the tell, the tell being about very specific behavior, and so on. However, none of these individually are necessary for something to be a trust tell.

If you wish to refer to your own meta, as a rule of thumb, do not speak in absolutes. We obviously cannot (and do not want to) punish someone for having some of these policies (e.g., if you believe that it is never correct to bus as scum, or don't want to fake a guilty, we can't make you). In these cases, you simply cannot discuss behaviors like this in discussion of your own meta. If someone else brings up something that may qualify as a trust tell for you, you can say that you've never done the behavior in question, but you cannot say that you have a policy of never doing it. This is not a perfect solution, but we don't believe that a perfect solution exists.

i want this game to be clean so a listmod might want to rule over this one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

thank you everyone and i hope you enjoyed the game. you'll see in our pt what's on purpose and what isn't. tbh the game died day 1 and when we bussed andre day 2. hyperposting killed morale, and we encouraged that a lot. apathy killed critical thinking, and we encouraged that a lot. math was awesome and even though it seemed at times that we don't have any chemistry as a team, this was the exact reason no one could pin us together as partners.

fine
let me be darling wagon
ask me anything

Q: Do you remember the game where you were scum and made me hate life so bad?

i hope it was different this time

[humaneatingmonkey]

also, I find it amusing that the surviving town had cat-related names in a cat-themed game

[humaneatingmonkey]

i did what i had to do. sorry i had to play that card, malakittens. yes, the constant bugging was on purpose because it gave me positive results. social is part of the game, i guess.

please take the time off when you absolutely need it, though. some forum game for a site of 75~ people isn't worth the mental fatigue.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it was scumsided because mathblade was op

[humaneatingmonkey]

i hope you feel better malakittens

[humaneatingmonkey]

alright i heard enough VOTE: MathBlade

[humaneatingmonkey]

hey RC remind me what's the town winrate of mountainous

[humaneatingmonkey]

I probably should've expected it though when HEM lashed out at me when I suspected him

Really? I thought that was instrumental in discouraging you from pursuing that train of thought...

[humaneatingmonkey]

koba is so salty and blamey for someone who demoralized the town into submission

[humaneatingmonkey]

*nods*

[humaneatingmonkey]

koba is so salty and blamey for someone who demoralized the town into submission

Love that I get blamed but not FL even tho i was pushing the coreect world

FL was pushing me so he was also pushing the correct world.
that doesn't matter much because blaming is so passé. laughing at the results is so much more in. much more enjoyable.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's like scum are constantly in tune with town sentiment amirite

[humaneatingmonkey]

fwiw i thought you did great koba, it's the way that you try to work with people that things break down. if you mastered people skills, you'll be unstoppable. but i guess that's how we keep you from being imba.

[humaneatingmonkey]

settle down folks things aren't as heated as you think they are

[humaneatingmonkey]

Facebones had to sub out because of a family emergency. Koba you're about to regret saying that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

someone attacking someone else

woah easy who's attacking who

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's not what you're being blamed for. at least not me. heck i'm only discouraging you from blaming other people really. i think it's when you treat other people as stupid for not listening to you instead of trying to find a way to break their walls and ease them into your pov that's missing from your gameplay.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like it's a team game, no one needs to solo hard carry. the skill is building consensus.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah i got called scum by FL for daring to question his Roden push and get info about it so i could dissect his logic lol

what went wrong there do you think

[humaneatingmonkey]

the things that you're citing right now are the good things you're doing. no one's blaming you for that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

guys im an easy picking right now

understand that

analyze it

if you want some vulnerability, i'm gonna go ahead and admit that i'm not gonna jeopardize my scum w/l record by staying in a losing game if i'm mafia here (people have been suspecting me since D1, and i'm unable to give my best game because i'm swamped).

did this really break any rules? is this a real trust tell?

no i dont think so. 1.) it's not a real trust tell of mine. it's a total lie. check my games. it's never been a pattern 2.) i didn't say never/always. 3.) i did not publicly consider or publicly announce a choice to replace out.

Invoking trust tells.

Trust tells have long been a point of confusion, and for good reason - they are one of the most subtle rules we have, and if you don't understand them it's not even clear why they'd be a problem. They act as a form of OGI typically by allowing a player to assert themself as town more strongly than would normally be possible. The subtlety around trust tells comes mostly from their distinction from acceptable self-meta. Self-meta turns into a trust tell when there is an explicit or implicit statement that it would never be broken, or that it would only be broken extremely rarely. Important here, and a distinction from how we've handled things in the past, is that we are extending this to include cases where the person is not intentionally building up a trust tell, but is instead simply pointing out a pattern in their meta that they never intend to break. For example, the following may all constitute trust tells depending on context:

"I will never lie using red text."
"I have never faked a guilty as scum."
"I will always claim my real role."
"I never bus as scum."

Context is very important here. If a relatively new player says that they've never fakeclaimed before, this is not a problem - however, if a player with many dozens of completed games points out the same thing and says that they never fakeclaim as a policy, then every game where they don't lie about this policy increases the credence of their claim. After a certain point, this becomes an unfair advantage because statistically, the more times in a row someone has told the truth about something, the more likely it is that they will always tell the truth about it.

There are a variety of factors that each push something toward being an unfair trust tell: history of having followed the tell, specifically stating that the tell will never be broken in the future rather than merely stating that it's been followed up until now, an explicit advantage (such as being more plausibly town) being gained by people believing the tell, the tell being about very specific behavior, and so on. However, none of these individually are necessary for something to be a trust tell.

If you wish to refer to your own meta, as a rule of thumb, do not speak in absolutes. We obviously cannot (and do not want to) punish someone for having some of these policies (e.g., if you believe that it is never correct to bus as scum, or don't want to fake a guilty, we can't make you). In these cases, you simply cannot discuss behaviors like this in discussion of your own meta. If someone else brings up something that may qualify as a trust tell for you, you can say that you've never done the behavior in question, but you cannot say that you have a policy of never doing it. This is not a perfect solution, but we don't believe that a perfect solution exists.

i want this game to be clean so a listmod might want to rule over this one.

listmod already ruled over on this one and i broke the rules! sorry about making this post, thought it wouldn't break any.

[humaneatingmonkey]

no lmao. i replace out when i overstretch and life hits me with an impossible schedule. then i won't even be here for a whole year or so. town games and scum games. winning or losing. left a lot of winning games from years past just because i can't play anymore.

but sircakez said it doesn't really matter. i brought ogi influence in the game and that's all that mattered. i disagree, but i'm fine with it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

seems legit