Mini Normal 2272: Flash Games | Game Over!

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up my peeps. I’ve kind of been skimming the game a bit but haven’t really done an extensive read through.

Just off the top of my head though, I got Meuh, Vanya, Moose, and Crescent as probably town. Maybe one of those could more than likely be scum, but they seem the most like town so far.

Cara, Scorpious, and Gamma are pinging me a bit.

[ItalianoVD]

I’ll be back later to catch-up properly.

UNVOTE: Monkeyman

[ItalianoVD]

I'm gonna be catching up section by section and I know I'm gonna be behind and all that good stuff lol, but bear with me. Obviously some of these thoughts are more than likely gonna change as I progress through and my questions get answered.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Assuming this is a serious vote. Not from this per se, but we'll revisit in a bit.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

This kinda pinged me here because I've seen scum do this. I've done it myself. Not sure how to really put it into words, but I'll give you what was going on in my head when I did it as wolf/scum. It's meant to be a joke, like "yeah sure let's vote me because clearly doing that is ridiculous, I'll vote myself to prove it", but in reality it's a self conscious action because I knew I was a wolf and subconsciously was voting out of guilt. Someone picked up on it and the village eventually voted me out the 1st day and I spent the entire day defending myself and trying to get everyone to understand that the action wasn't all that serious.

VOTE: geraintm
long time no see

Null. More than likely RVS.

Self-vote scummy

VOTE: Scorpious

The first serious vote, I'd assume.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Looks like normal geraintm who generally votes on wagons Day 1 regardless. Not ai.

Uncle Vanya,
Is this your first game or are you an alt?

Not sure what this has to do with anything here because having experience or not doesn't take away from the reason Vanya voted Scorpious.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Scum points for this. Scorpious voted himself and then shades geraintm for voting here when this is what he does.

Spoiler:

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

And here is where we revisit dwlee's vote who by this comment made me think his scorpious vote was serious.

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

Eh, it’s page 1.

You’ll find me for real scummy for

something

soon enough.

I don't think Scorpious and dwlee are the same alignment here.

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Been weirder if I broke a habit of a lifetime

Yeah this. However, geraintm bringing it up could be wifom. Being self-aware of this fact, he could hide behind it as scum. I'm not ready to go there just yet though.

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Guessing RVS? Maybe serious? *shrug*

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Nice..

Love the creativity..

???

Spoiler:

VOTE: Scorpious
Scum

Excellent deduction..

VOTE: Scorpious

Total scum.

VOTE: scorpius

Very interesting you’d put someone at 4 votes so early. RVS or not..

UNVOTE:

Interesting yes, but scummy?
It takes 7 to eliminate, I seriously doubt anyone would have the intention to flashwagon
If anything, why would scum place their vote on you there? It looks bad from the instant pile up without much chance for the wagon to actually go anywhere considering it’s page 1

My thoughts exactly, although I don't really agree that it's interesting.

Scorpious generally reads stilted and I can't say I like it
Feels overly self-conscious which ig townies can be but scum engage in it plenty
However I like this set of interactions so I dunno:

VOTE: gamma emerald

long time no see to you!

scorpius instawagon is funny

Not really.. lol

I have an awful sense of humor. I just liked the bit, take what you can get :p

Stick with me . I’m a 6 but I’m funny

I'm a simple woman, make me laugh and I'll hop in your pocket.

24 and 26 especially feel +town respectively for Scorpious and Carcalilly

Ehhh, these are pretty null for me.

VOTE: Uncle Vanya

Nice..

Love the creativity..

I'm saving it for later.

Don't really understand this interaction.

I wish I actually got anything about your alignment from this little stint

Townie vibes here, hints of sorting

Okay I guess I can see that.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play. Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

I pointed this out already, but the act is nai. That's not to say that scum!geraintm knowing this, could have put town!scorpious closer to elimination.

Spoiler:

VOTE: gamma emerald

long time no see to you!

scorpius instawagon is funny

Not really.. lol

Third or fourth vote here has fairly high scum equity. First vote less so.

Also... I'm a kitty. Meow.

If town!scorpious then sure, if it's scum!scorpious then not so much.

@Scorpious, any thoughts on how your quick wagon developed? I just wanted to see if any of them gave you a certain vibe.

It didn’t hurt that I self voted.

Far be it from me to say if any of those would have stuck. I get zero vibes either way.

Really? You couldv'e fooled me.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Again I disagree. Not sure if you are/were townreading Scorpious at this point, but to me, this reads like a possible pocket attempt if Scorpious is town.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play. Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

You seem overly worried about how you look.

VOTE: Meuh

Get plays like this all the time. Hard to find it AI, especially so early.. He has… quirks..

So then why did you post 13?

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Elaborate?

The first post is generally NAI, unless it's a new player or on a new player. The self-vote is NAI at least to me because I don't know the player.

Vanya snap-voting for the self-vote has some scum equity, but also makes sense from a town dicking around since there does tend to be a joking stigma against self-votes.. The 4th vote took time and has thought behind it because it quoted a post, but also didn't say anything in the process.

If any vote is a "scum hop on" vote, it's likely that fourth one.

I agree that the actual action of self-voting is nai, but self voting in and of itself is anti-town. I think Vanya's reason for voting Scorpious is pretty decent. If Scorpious is scum do you still think that 4th vote is scummy? Do you townlean Scorpious?

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Honestly, geraintm and unclevanya are easily tied for that title. I'd be down to nuke the scorpious wagon for one of those. I'll even flip a coin.

pedit well you took the words right outta my mouth lmfao

This gives me scum vibes regardless of Scorpious' alignment.

Spoiler:

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

I don't see it. Like I get what you mean, but I can see that push coming from town who actually believes the self-vote was coming from scum.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

How is mine even bad. Self-voting is always anti-town.

I kinda agree here. Maybe not always, but by a very large degree.

@meuh

So...I have a way if random voting in every single game I play.

Scorpious wanted me to break that pattern because they didn't want to go to 4 votes so quickly

, but I ain't breaking my method for them. You can call it shutting down the conversation, but my last game had scorpious in it and they know elegantly what I was going to do

Why is this the conclusion you drew from Scorpious' posting?
Walk me through your thought process on Scorpious please, I wanna understand it

This is a fair question.

Statements like this concern me.

Why.

Because it seems like

they are

basing

their

actions based on a certain player reaction.

Are you talking about Vanya here or Scorpious? The pronoun use is confusing me here?

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Elaborate?

The first post is generally NAI, unless it's a new player or on a new player. The self-vote is NAI at least to me because I don't know the player.

Vanya snap-voting for the self-vote has some scum equity, but also makes sense from a town dicking around since there does tend to be a joking stigma against self-votes.. The 4th vote took time and has thought behind it because it quoted a post, but also didn't say anything in the process.

If any vote is a "scum hop on" vote, it's likely that fourth one.

…I’m leaning town on you rn, tho I think you’ll spew your alignment down the road

Hmm.

The worst of the votes on you is the guy MM just voted, interestingly enough.

Vanya's vote looks worse to me; sure it's earlier but it actually has some merit as an attempt to push the wagon forward
geraintm's isolated vote that doesn't seem to be made as such an attempt looks better to me.
though I think geraintm is scummier than Vanya?
I think the vote post itself looks worse for Vanya but further posts from geraintm muddies their alignment

How is mine even bad. Self-voting is always anti-town.

anti-town ≠ making someone scum

also there's merit in self-voting in some situations, even if not too common. Plus it's not like Scorpious was in danger of being limmed here

this being the explanation for your vote makes it look worse to me...
if the immediate reaction from you seeing anything anti-town is "hey, this player should get wagoned" and not "is this being done by scum or by a townie?" I'm not so sure I trust your intentions

I agree with the difference between anti-town and being scummy or scum, but again I guess I can see Vanya's push coming from a town mindset.

I think Meuh towntells here and here and I think Crescent towntells here

[ItalianoVD]

Also I know I said Carca was scum pinging me but 93 and 99 are pinging me in the opposite direction. Like I can feel the townie frustration/concern in the tone of the posts. It doesn't feel like an agenda is being pushed.

[ItalianoVD]

I do find it interesting that there's a bit of dogpiling on Vanya right now but not much follow up with actual votes. After a quick skim, I only see two votes there.

I guess this is fair given the previous reads there.

VOTE: Vanya

I was considering my options.

I never like prompted votes and yes I do think it comes from scum more often than not. Also I don't remember there being other options to consider.

Will probably end up back on MonkeyMan unless something else happens.

like idgaf about vanya its just the irony that pains me

This may be a goodplace to look back to on a later day to get a better scope of the players who are speaking now once we have some flips later on.

this is the only hope i have for it honestly. First day wagons are supposed to be reachy anyway ig.

Again, I'm starting to a feel a little different based on the tones of the posts.

Why does it bother you so much?

its like hearing a faint alarm bell but not knowing where tf its coming from. I mean, yeah im probably overreacting. maybe projecting cuz scum me would hop in on an comfy echo chamber like this in an instant. idk man.

Hmm. Self-meta? I can dig it, but that last "idk man" has me pinging agan. Like everything else would have been fine except for that last little part.

[ItalianoVD]

Why does it bother you so much?

its like hearing a faint alarm bell but not knowing where tf its coming from. I mean, yeah im probably overreacting. maybe projecting cuz scum me would hop in on an comfy echo chamber like this in an instant. idk man.

Alright, makes sense. I was expecting a more LAMIST response, so I'm leaning town for you now.

Why were you expecting a LAMIST response? Were you scumreading those previous posts Carca made?

Okay let’s get it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Bad vote

VOTE: Andres

I don't remember you being so reactionary when getting voted. I played with you a couple times iirc as my alt.

Spoiler:

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

This is prob scum

Let's say hypothetically that Koba put a vigilante into the game despite hating vigilantes

And let's say hypothetically I was said vigilante

I would hypothetically shoot fugitivemoose

VOTE: moose

I think Moose is probably town here. That post doesn't even sound scummy to me.

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler:

It depends on the kind of player he is. Some players stubbornly cling to their meta and don't really care about anyone challenging it. In the most recent game I hosted, two town players had roles that conflicted with each other night 1, and one of them spent the entire game, which ended day 5, calling the other scum because he was seeing things too much in "black and white".

MM's post is very on point though about the "opportunistic scum" angle that I pointed out could be in play earlier... I didn't elaborate, and he did, and I like that from him.

Is this about me?
I am only stunningly clinging onto my method of random voting

I've never played a game on this forum before. It was just a very recent example that came to mind of stubbornness that happened to come from a town player and could've resulted in a throw.

Tangential but I don't want to swallow thoughts this early and make it a habit.

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

You waited 5 years?
Have you played elsewhere over that time?

I like these posts

Really? I think Crescent has had better posts than that one and you townread Scorpious post? If anything it's null.

[ItalianoVD]

scorpious and crescent seem town rn

Why?

Gotta show your work.

I feel like this could be a scum post. Again, could be.

Taking advantage of getting town leaned to call out the leaner for reasons why..

I can easily see the tactic being used, it’s a very town question to ask, but the timing could indicate alignment.


I’m just talking my thoughts, nothing substantial..

Don't remember you being so full of "thoughts" on our last Day 1.

Question of the day, if a player makes a vote but no one takes it serious. Did that person really make a vote?

Hello, everyone. This is my first game on this forum.

You waited 5 years?
Have you played elsewhere over that time?

I like these posts

This one in particular seems NAI to me, what about it?

it seems like a fairly critical response

And that can't come from scum?

If fugitive moose did anything following that post he'd be less scummy

But you immediately voted him for that post so I kinda doubt it.

I can’t wait to see how Vanya reacts to the wagon on them.

Homie you aren't even voting there

And why would I have to be voting there?

This.

[ItalianoVD]

I feel like Vanya is trying to lurk out the pressure on him, but with 24 hour prod timers it'll be a bit difficult.

Hmm that could be the case, I suppose.
I think with the way Vanya responded to pressure, they could be wanting to avoid attention on them and just let momentum dissipate.
(bless the 24 hour prod timers )

however, I don't know if this is an assumption to make just based on someone just not posting for a while.
i like to assume scum are actually yknow, trying to play the game?
losing to lurkscum sounds lame
maybe i have too much faith though, it's a fairly common tactic isn't it?

One of the worst feelings is losing to a scum team that didn't do anything while town cannibalized themself all game

It is a pretty common tactic to just lurk out early pressure, but tbh it almost always works. I almost never see initial wagons stick unless that player reacts really really badly.

Seems kinda early to be going here with it no? Meuh summed it up pretty well.

UV is probably just scum and avoiding confrontation.

Why are you saying the same thing Roden said?

Titus has been prodded as well as her 128 is not game advancing content

Oh damn, I kinda like this

Though NM is screwed if he replaces in at some point lmao

This is weird, why would you have an opinion on a mod message? Are you happy Titus’ content didn’t count for some reason? Does the rule excite you?

And why envoke NM? I don’t get it. This prompted me to look at your iso and there isn’t much there.

This feels kinda clunky here.

UNVOTE:

hmm

Geraintm does make you go hmm. I'd like to hear more when you're ready to talk about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Ehh potential mindmeld in 176

177 - Ooh spicy. What is your true read on Carcalilly?

I don't know, just reading Scorpious' posts feel so different from last game and very similar to another scumgame I've played with them. 178and 179 in particular just feel strange.

VOTE: Vanya
Consolidating but moose still kinda sus

Is he though? You seem to just be keeping your options open.

I've explained all of those posts as I made them except for the mod one, but even that one should be obvious. I don't see the point of questioning me on why I like the idea of short prod timers after I just said how scum lurking out pressure is usually an effective strategy.

Roden town?

OMGUS much?

We caught scum guys.

Could dwlee and MonkeyMan be potential partners? They are individually scummy to me and have not interacted.

I feel like there is scum somewhere in dwlee, MonkeyMan, and Scorpious?

[ItalianoVD]

Okay pg 9 is where I started reading for real so I'm pretty much caught up and no what's going on at this point with the "softclaim" and whatnot. If anyone needs to ask me questions or needs me to clarify things feel free to do so. Probably won't be giving readslist this early but I'd say I know pretty much where my head is. Of course my reads can be wrong and probably are on Day 1, but things have stood out and not stood out to me if that makes sense.

[ItalianoVD]

The way Roden straight up called out Scorpious didn't feel like a scum move. It felt like an annoyed town move. Scorpious' bad reaction to him makes me pretty confident that Roden is town if he is scum.

Yeah this is what I'm thinking right now.

I kind of just completely let MM go after my pressure on him.

Wonder why I did that.

Are you just asking yourself rhetorically or are you trying to tell me something?

Dwlee is a virtual inactive and has done basically nothing but hop between your slot and Moose, the other two inactives. Hopped from Moose to your slot almost immediately after I put the spotlight back on Andres. Kinda gives the vibe of not caring which of the two is getting voted for.

Exactly. I kinda forgot that dw was in the game and then when I was catching up and reading his iso the pings were popping in left and right.

My personal experience says players like Moose are usually town being antagonistic because they don't know how to relate to the game. I've found players like him are the easiest vote in the world and they flip town more often than not - Though his scum equity goes up significantly if Scorpious is scum. He's been softly defending Moose without directly tying himself to him.

This is what I felt when reading his posts and how everyone was interacting with them. Low hanging fruit is generally very valuable for scum which is why they hang onto it in practically every game. That's not to say this never comes from scum, but I'd say the percentages are pretty low on Day 1.

[ItalianoVD]

There's a newb tell specifically about how they entered the game

This isn't the newbie queue?

[ItalianoVD]

And who actually still uses this?

[ItalianoVD]

Nah but I just said I liked it
If someone just has content that I like but doesn’t feel really incisive I’ll eventually start wanting more out of them

Nah you were townleaning.

[ItalianoVD]

@dwlee: besides the scumreads you have on myself, vanya, scorpious, and moose, what else is going on in that head of yours?

[ItalianoVD]

I'm glad you are active, Italiano, but it doesn't sound like a lot of what you are saying is based on anything semi concrete.

I mean it is Day 1.

VOTE: MonkeyMan

[ItalianoVD]

I'm glad you are active, Italiano, but it doesn't sound like a lot of what you are saying is based on anything semi concrete.

Which part? Specifics please.

[ItalianoVD]

I'm not sure what part he is talking about because I said kind of a lot. I'm guessing my scumread of him is what's eating at him.

[ItalianoVD]

Well it's been real my peeps, I'm going to bed. See you tomorrow. Thanks for engaging with me for a little while Crescent. Looking forward to our engagement Monkey.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah Meuh, I don't really have a problem with 393, except this one part...

Dwlee and Gamma I also have not really attempted to sort, and are in a similar space in my head if that makes any sense?

Crescent has been active, but not just that, she has been involved in sorting players and given us an inside look into how she thinks. There's townie quirkiness there. Dwlee and Gamma have not done this and for me dw looks a lot worse here than Gamma but together I wouldn't put them into the same category as Crescent at all.

I also don't even have an issue with your vote not only because it's aligning with what I think about dw, but given what you posted earlier about dw there is a disconnect, but it feels like townie disconnect not scummy.

[ItalianoVD]

I agree with Rodan's assessment that he was obviously "softclaiming", but am perplexed as to why he'd bring it up so quickly, and even more perplexed as to why he'd immediately demand a claim.

It feels like it needed a lot more time to play out.

Claiming a PR under pressure is bad town play. Softing a PR to scare people away from pressuring you is scummy play.

If Scorpius actually wanted to use his PR to catch scum in a trap, it would've been better to not say anything at all so that scum could feel confident in actually voting him. As it is now, there's nothing we can analyze about his wagon. So instead we have to figure out if he just misplayed his PR, used his PR to avoid dealing with suspicion, or faked a PR soft to stop his wagon from forming.

Not sure how you want a town Pr to claim then? They aren't to hard claim, they aren't to soft claim, should they just never mention it?

I know this isn't for me, but just giving my thoughts on the subject. In general I think it's bad to claim if you're pr and if you are, should play in a way that doesn't get you nightkilled, but also not enough to get voted out. My last game all town pr's were dead by day 3 because of a day 1 massclaim. I think it's ridiculous to do and kills the strategy of the game. I think in general people rely too much on them; they should be a tool. I don't even like the rule of this site that you claim at E1 but that's what it is.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah Meuh, I don't really have a problem with 393, except this one part...

Dwlee and Gamma I also have not really attempted to sort, and are in a similar space in my head if that makes any sense?

Crescent has been active, but not just that, she has been involved in sorting players and given us an inside look into how she thinks. There's townie quirkiness there. Dwlee and Gamma have not done this and for me dw looks a lot worse here than Gamma but together I wouldn't put them into the same category as Crescent at all.

I also don't even have an issue with your vote not only because it's aligning with what I think about dw, but given what you posted earlier about dw there is a disconnect, but it feels like townie disconnect not scummy.

Dwlee/Gamma/Crescent aren't in the same space in my mind, only Dwlee/Gamma. I worded that poorly

Ahh okay. Noted.

[ItalianoVD]

Don't trust gera at all though and consider him a good potential vote.

Also now that you've been useful UNVOTE: AndresReplacementPerson

It's day 1, you shouldn't trust anyone. That is a very pointless comment

Uhh looks like you quoted the wrong post here.

[ItalianoVD]

I hate Meuh's vote kn Dwlee. I don't see any build up to it, and then they use other people wanting to pressure them to justify their vote. It won't go anywhere, that isn't a wagon that is likely to happen anytime soon. It feels like a "I wanna be seen doing something"

It comes right after a wagon is forming is another player....so large naughty point for you

VOTE: meuh

I disagree. I think it's a wagon that can definitely happen. What do you think about the wagon that is forming on another player. Both the wagoners and the wagonee.

[ItalianoVD]

Yea meuh's vote on me is kinda weird especially as an explicit counter to MM and also because they open up discussion of me as explicitly not knowing how to read me etc. and not saying anything about my play. Why am I a better wagon than MM if she hasn't even attempted to sort me?

I think your play has been kinda weird. Are we supposed to accept your play and just let it ride?

@dwlee: besides the scumreads you have on myself, vanya, scorpious, and moose, what else is going on in that head of yours?

There is not much going on up in here right now

[ItalianoVD]

I'm glad you are active, Italiano, but it doesn't sound like a lot of what you are saying is based on anything semi concrete.

Okay yea this post is icky I'mma look more into this monkey person

Oh really? Well I look forward to hearing what you have to say about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Also Meuh mentions Dwlee one time in that entire post when she says "I haven't attempted to sort Dwlee", then lists them as a top suspect and votes them.

Big disconnect between logic and vote to directly go against 3 quick votes on someone else with.

Kind of agree with Gera that it feels like a wall post leading to an easy vote just for the sake of placing a vote.

Read my 611 and see if you can see what I see.

[ItalianoVD]

I just feel like Italiano picked someone out of a hat and decided to right a bible about while they are scummy, I think I've had a lot of good points for day 1 compared to a lot of players.

Yeah, that's what happened. Your reaction is what is selling me on my vote and why I feel okay voting here.

And that's a misrep, I didn't write a Bible about why I thought you were scummy, I was writing about everything and everyone in the game. I probably wrote a few sentences about you. I actually had more to say about Scorpious, who I'm realizing now may actually be town.

[ItalianoVD]

I just feel like Italiano picked someone out of a hat and decided to right a bible about while they are scummy, I think I've had a lot of good points for day 1 compared to a lot of players.

Scum can make good points just like townies can make bad points.

[ItalianoVD]

Aight, I guess it's late enough in the day to lay it out. Frankly I'm gonna be gone most of the day and I'll try to check in later.

Meuh
Crescent

Carca
Roden
Uncle Vanya

Titus
geraintm
Moose

Gamma
Scorpious

Monkey
dwlee

*

blue

- strong townlean, *

green

- medium townlean, *

yellow

- weak townlean, *

orange

- weak scumlean, *

red

- strong scumlean

I don't have any nulls because I feel everyone has done something to make me place them somewhere. I'm probably wrong on some of these, but there would need to be some concrete evidence for me to do full 180s on any of these slots.

[ItalianoVD]

After reading I will admit that 636 is good if dwlee is town. I think we go with MonkeyMan today and see if there is resistance there. Probably Gamma would be a good counterwagon.

@dwlee: Are you generally a better Day 2 and beyond player?

[ItalianoVD]

I’m town.

Damn how could I vote you now

The sass amuses me.

I agree. He beat me to it.

[ItalianoVD]

That's a poor idea.

Now that you’re here, what’s on your mind. Other than Vanya, who else do you think is scum?

[ItalianoVD]

Just eliminate me and get it over with if you're going to be assonine about it.

Yeah that’s really gonna since you said you’re town.

[ItalianoVD]

Just eliminate me and get it over with if you're going to be assonine about it.

Yeah that’s really gonna since you said you’re town.

…really gonna *help*

[ItalianoVD]

I’m town.

Damn how could I vote you now

The sass amuses me.

I agree. He beat me to it.

Wait who is the he in this scenario?

DWlee is a they and I'm a she.

Oh…well this is awkward, I meant they as in dwlee.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah because he is confbiasing and I'm not in the mood for an overdrawn out meaningless day one fight right now.

How am I confbiasing? You’re actions have seemed the most like scum, it hasn’t just been me, others have seen it and now you’re taking your ball and going home.

[ItalianoVD]

Joins game
Attacks anyone who looks at them
Refuses to explain anything
Asks to die

What's really odd is he's just completely ignoring my calling him scum. He's solely focused on Italiano calling him scum and how it's completely invalid "because reasons".

He comes off as toxic and petty towards Italiano specifically, but doesn't seem to care about anyone else. It's bizarre.

Even more is he’s not saying I’m scum or that it’s bad faith, but somehow we’re supposed to just think he’s town and change our minds because he said so. I’d much rather he engage, but I guess that won’t happen. Not doing so, however, is just solidifying my vote there.

[ItalianoVD]

Something I’ve noticed is dwlee is forming thoughts and posts and acts like they know they are town, while MonkeyMan is forming thoughts and posts and acts like he is upset that we don’t see him as town. It’s a going difference imo.

[ItalianoVD]

Also lol, MonkeyMan is not dealing with me, anyone else wanna try to get him to engage in the game?

[ItalianoVD]

I’m just saying if I’m wrong I’d assume a real townie would be trying to prove their innocence.

It’s more like saying “you’re wrong” and then when asked “ok why am I wrong?” the response is “I don’t wanna talk about it.”

And also I’m not confbiasing, so that’s wrong. I had Carca, Gamma, and Scorpious as my leanscums when I first replaced in. After actually reading the game my leanscums changed to MonkeyMan, dwlee, and Scorpious.

Recently dw has posted in a townie way, believe it or not Scorpious has had some townie content, although not enough imo to outweigh the scumminess, and MonkeyMan has had a few townie posts, but like Scopious not enough to outweigh the scumminess and like I said, scum can posts townie content from time to time.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s a going difference imo.

It was supposed to say *glaring*

[ItalianoVD]

Something I’ve noticed is dwlee is forming thoughts and posts and acts like they know they are town, while MonkeyMan is forming thoughts and posts and acts like he is upset that we don’t see him as town. It’s a going difference imo.

Also lol, MonkeyMan is not dealing with me, anyone else wanna try to get him to engage in the game?

All he said was "I'll post what I feel like when I feel like it".

He won't engage with anyone, it's not just you.

Lee looks like someone who "woke up" when pressured. Self-preservation is *not* scummy. Some players naturally are that way. I used to gear shift when pressured, personally. There's someone I'm used to playing with who I routinely nag at early to get him to talk.

Lee has had a train of thought where you can follow it and see the town motives.

Well then I guess that’s it then huh? I’ve iso’d him multiple times and actually can see some towniness, like I said in my previous post, but these recent reactions, especially 582, are muddying everything I try to see. I’m really trying to understand if a townie would act this way and I just can’t see it.

And 100% this on dw. I would move them up into my yellow/green tier. I especially like 684. It doesn’t feel like an agenda and as I mentioned it really feels like they are posting from a townie mindset, like “I know I’m town and this is what’s on my mind.”

[ItalianoVD]

I like your play, you just seem to get a little ego going when you think you’ve figured things out

Doesn’t everybody?

[ItalianoVD]

That's a poor idea.

Now that you’re here, what’s on your mind. Other than Vanya, who else do you think is scum?

i feel like i am in trouble if there are people agreeing with my Day 1 thoughts.

I've finally picked up on what I think will be key in reading you.

You like to appear dumb. You want people to think you're not as smart as you actually are.

But it slips when you make posts like you have recently that have been on point.

Spot on.

[ItalianoVD]

After reading the last few pages, especially the interaction between Crescent and Scorpious, I wanna update my readslist.

Meuh
Crescent

Carca
Roden
Uncle Vanya

Titus
geraintm
Moose
Scorpious
dwlee

Gamma

Monkey

*

blue

- strong townlean, *

green

- medium townlean, *

yellow

- weak townlean, *

orange

- weak scumlean, *

red

- strong scumlean

Nothing else aside from Scorpious and dw has changed obviously. If MonkeyMan is somehow town then scum is probably between yellow and green.

[ItalianoVD]

It's two days until deadline. I'm vanilla town. You could probably do a lot worse than eliminating me, but whatever.

Fine, who is scum or at least where are you leaning.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah I know, I was just kinda throwing my thoughts out.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah I know, I was just kinda throwing my thoughts out.

In response to 738.

[ItalianoVD]

There’s a specific reason I chose to vote dwlee

Did you already state it?

[ItalianoVD]

Was that 628?

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE:

Hood members need to claim first to avoid potential false guilties from a PT Cop.

I am a hood member.

it sucks that our hood is so deafeningly silent though.

[ItalianoVD]

Yes

Duly noted.

[ItalianoVD]

Scum Picks:
geraintm
Moose
Scorpious

Lol you litterally just copied and pasted the yellow portion Italiano’s list…

Oh wow, I didn't catch that.

[ItalianoVD]

ok, im out of a computer for like a week and a half, i don't wanna blockpost with quotes on a phone because it's way too easy to get formatting screwed. if anyone wants any point clarified with quotes ask me directly. these are kinda in-order from p23.

Spoiler:

I think scorpius should stay on the elim table for the next few days, but not Day 1. With the softclaim, if they're telling the truth, they should be either able to prove it or be NK'd within the next few nights most likely. As long as it doesn't fall under the radar, I dont believe this slot would survive past Day 3.

The quickness of Roden to push the claim was surprising, I didnt particularly think he'd be so blatant, but I feel like it was obvious and this is a more towny jump of the gun, mainly because of the following thought processes. There seems to be no scum oriented motive.

Gamma has clearly been out of this game, and im hesitant to call that AI at all. Most of his posts are just sideline thoughts, which sort of feel like he's trying to stay in the game without actually engaging at a deep level. This could be blatantly scummy or just a complete apathy for the Day 1 scramble. I'm expecting a little bit more from him lategame, and I'm keen to keep an eye on his opinions on flips.

Italiano's catch up is solid and greatly increased the town equity of the slot. The slot was null-lean-scum for me beforehand, but it's a huge imrpovemet to have one less questionable lurker player. I feel like he's made a proper effort to draw engagements from players who needed it, which feels like it has proactive sorting motives.

Dwlee kinda felt a lot like Gamma for me, basically lurking but throwing surface thoughs here and there enough to be technically playing the game. I kind of ignored him because, again, I expected more lategame, and there were better elim candidates in the air. While his posts aren't substantial they aren't particularly pingy to me.

Gonna throw down here that theres like no chance in my mind that Italiano/Crescent are s/s. Both have good town equity already, and I'm pretty confident its t/t, but on the complete offchance one of them flips scum it'd be borderline conft for the other. Their interactions are far too dynamic.

MM just kinda pops in and throws shade without context or elaboration, lol. I don't blame the instawagon at all.

Meuh's post was super wish-washy. On one hand I'm sorta expecting it from this thought-puke playstyle slot, and on the other hand it feels to me like she hasn't made any concrete reads. The washyness feels like fluff, like shes attempting to sort people without actually sorting people. I'd like to see a more concrete and proper readlist from her at some point.

geraintm does not sit well with me at all. Obviously PRs should avoid mentioning they're a PR all together? Being honest about where your suspicions lie isn't pointless... and a softly hypocritical comment. A vote off a wagon for someone voting off a wagon?

Meuh's reaction and reasoning for the vote is solid. Could've been done with way sooner when actually making the vote, but I see the proactive motivation for attempting to roll a counter wagon.

MM's thought process on Italiano is mad confusing. Some examples and elaborations to his claims would be nice but at this point I'm not really expecting anything from there.

I can throw my agreement with the dwlee/MM being s/s, softly think that one of them fliping scum would slightly increase the equity of the other slot. Primarily due to the lack of interaction.
Ok nvm that statement above I literally typed that all out right before reading dwlee vote MM. Could be a bus to save his own ass after being called out, or throw gamma into his place in pressure, but im feeling way less sure.

Crescent's 'out of the blue' comment is odd to me considering gamma isnt the only one who's done this. I expect these random flimsy read statements from him anyway so that might cloud me with bias.

MM's comments kinda devolved from having any attempt in playing the game anymore. On one hand I'd expect D1 scum to fight more for their life, but there's nothing town about these statements either.

Scorp joining the wagon without wanting to throw out an actual read on MM is questionable. I can get wanting to advance the game, but that's also an easy ticket reason for being excluded from post-wagon analysis.

MM's mad tunnel on Italiano make me inclined to believe they're s/t.

Scorp's post on geraint's playstyle is the only one I can really resonate with as of late. I feel like he's been deliberately antagonistic, and I guess it could be meta-muddying but it's bad enough I'm throwing down a scumread.

Moose giving solid reasoning for voting dwlee improves his equity somewhat.

Dwlee confirming being more of a late game player has me softly against his elim for now. If given the chance and still rolling bad, then I'd be far more confident that they're scum. Atm I feel like theres a lack of information on this slot, partially due to the technical lurking.
I also agree with his reattention to scorpius. I'm still against scorp being the D1 elim for PR reasons I stated beforehand. I feel like an MM or geraint elim would be better, with MM being the more likely/informative of the two.

Dwlee's uptick in activity and post value is interesting enough to be noted.

Cresent has a solid point about scorpius' inconsistent thought process. I like the little equity %, and I'm curious of everyone she had above 50%.

Scorps defensive point don't convince me much. Ego is usually NAI.

I want more elaboration on the scorp town read from dwlee.

There's actually a solid point from scorp on Crescent's lack of a vote. Not sure if crescent just treats votes oddly, but im really not too worried about a quickhammer either. Usually a hammer with a few hours left in the day is completely normal.

geraint's calling himself bad softly feels like excuses/setting up a get away card. Ive also been historically awful at ms, but after my haitus, im using this game to try to get better. Being bad shouldn't excuse scummy/deliberate water-muddying behavior.

while the deadline is close, id rather see what MM has to say, and for an official votecount before placing my vote anywhere.

I really like this post from Carca. It's to the point that if she is scum she gets a pass for now.

[ItalianoVD]

Either this scum team's glaringly obvious and I'm missing the mark, or there's something sketchy going on with how half of the players have the same takes on most things. I guess we'll see, ego aside I hope I get proven wrong

I'd like to think town is cohesive. Scum like to have a lot of confusion and reads going every which way, so I'm really hoping we are just seeing town unity, even though it's Day 1.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Crescent

I like this better..

Ummm...

[ItalianoVD]

We are not doing this claim hood nonsense. That's scum motivated. There's no proof there even is a PT Cop or not.

I don't have an issue with it. It's whatever for me.

[ItalianoVD]

We are not doing this claim hood nonsense. That's scum motivated. There's no proof there even is a PT Cop or not.

It's not scum motivated. I literally just played as a PT cop in a game where people didn't claim hoods, not dealing with that again

We are not doing this claim hood nonsense. That's scum motivated. There's no proof there even is a PT Cop or not.

It's not scum motivated. I literally just played as a PT cop in a game where people didn't claim hoods, not dealing with that again

And I just dealt with a game where conftown decided to push through many miseliminations due to metagaming a hood and clears.

Yeah, I think I'm going with dw here. Any power role shenanigans that screw up town I'm totally against. I've had my share of weird setups and if claiming a hood prevents that screw up then I'm good with it.

[ItalianoVD]

So I'm to take it that everyone on a hood scans as scum?
I'm curious 'cause I've never seen that with neighbors.

A PT Cop gets a guilty from everyone who is linked to a private thread, regardless of alignment.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Crescent

Uhh yeah, no this ain't happening.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Crescent

Don’t make me say it

Say what?

[ItalianoVD]

We are not doing this claim hood nonsense. That's scum motivated. There's no proof there even is a PT Cop or not.

I’m confused that a) the hood has been called quiet by you AND Italiano and b) neither of you apparently give enough of a shit to actually cause things to happen in there given how long it’s been the case

Oh okay sounds wonderful, and what would you have us do?

[ItalianoVD]

We are not doing this claim hood nonsense. That's scum motivated. There's no proof there even is a PT Cop or not.

I’m confused that a) the hood has been called quiet by you AND Italiano and b) neither of you apparently give enough of a shit to actually cause things to happen in there given how long it’s been the case

Oh okay sounds wonderful, and what would you have us do?

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE:

Just wanted to be sure..

Def scum, if not. Wtf are you doing man?

VOTE: MM

Uhh who are you talking to?

[ItalianoVD]

On some level I can understand Monkey's frustration regardless of his alignment, it sucks to be scum read for reasons you don't think are even remotely good on Day 1. I've had a couple games where that kind of shit has happened and it immediately soured my attitude and made me not want to play.

However I don't think Monkey got treated particularly unfairly here? He consistently had bad reactions to everything and folded under pressure any time someone asked him a question. Even when we give him a chance to play by backing off some of the pressure, he just...doesn't. I feel like he's been around long enough to play off suspicion better than this.

100% This. I don't think town plays like this whether the reasons are bad or not, there should at least be some type of effort.

Titus is probably town for being uncooperative.

Titus is probably town for being uncooperative.

Disagree with this take - kinda just made a similar mistake with mathblade in a game.

I agree with both takes here. I feel like I am terrible at reading Titus, I got her alignment right in one game when I protected her from a night 1 kill, other than that I scumread her when she's town and townread her when she's scum. I'm being careful around her, but I feel she is town right now.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: monkeyman

That was hammer right?

[ItalianoVD]

It appears I am outvoted. For simplicity, the hood is me, Varma, Moose, and Italino.

Yeah I confirm this.

[ItalianoVD]

Because I'm tired of the name calling.

Getting called scum is part of the game. I don’t think anyone else called anyone any bad names if I recall. If this is the case and you are town you may want to take a break from the game for a bit and get your mind right. And I don’t mean that in a sarcastic or condescending way. I’m 100% serious.

[ItalianoVD]

Well welcome. There's certain ways to deal with the behavior you're talking about. Both alignments flail. The players need to feel listened to. That helps communication. If people feel that no one's listening, they'll lash out.

Okay, but this is so not what happened with Monkey. Almost everyone asked for him to engage and he refused repeatedly, so no I don’t feel sorry at all. If you’re town then I’m gonna be pretty pissed because you could have NOT been eliminated, but if you’re scum then it makes total sense.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah MM’s probably town. I don’t think scum post in twilight after getting limmed.

But he’s not saying anything still.

[ItalianoVD]

Man I really wish MonkeyMan was scum, it would have felt great to get scum Day 1.

@Titus: We still going with Scorpious?

@Crescent: Who in my town reads do you think could be scum and who I should be looking at?

I’m gonna be looking off wagon for scum and also looking at who was possibly white knighting for MonkeyMan. I’m also pretty sure scum split their votes and one was probably on MonkeyMan.

Will try to check in from time to time but a real busy day today. Ciao.

[ItalianoVD]

Why tf is roden dead again

I looked over Roden’s iso and didn’t really see anything that looked like pr language. I know there’s always a multiplicity of reasons for scum’s nightkills and trying to pinpoint is usually just wifom, but it’s usually for pr hunting I’d say.

There’s also the theory that scum killed him knowing this fact and came out today saying that it’s usually the Titus family.

[ItalianoVD]

We still got rid of a not-town player. His role just didn't have the word "scum" in it, unfortunately.

Facts here.

And of course it's Vanya. MM playing like extremely obvious scum is the only reason Vanya was getting anyone's townread to begin with.

Hmm. Why Vanya and not Scorpious?

[ItalianoVD]

I’m gonna be looking off wagon for scum

and also looking at who was possibly white knighting for MonkeyMan

. I’m also pretty sure scum split their votes and one was probably on MonkeyMan.

I think I should also keep in my mind who was NOT possibly white knighting for Monkey.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: scorpious
yeah I'm thinking this is scum

What changed?

[ItalianoVD]

Fairly sure you have implicated every single player there, like when Poirot brings everyone into the room and spends 20 minutes explaining why it could be any kf them

[ItalianoVD]

Vanya was the guy we were townclearing based on MM being scum.

I was townleaning Vanya without there being anything to do with MonkeyMan. But I’m curious, talk to me about Vanya more.

[ItalianoVD]

So, please enlighten me in each of your own words how Roden being nk’d affected or didn’t affect your reads on me.

Who said this or implied this?

[ItalianoVD]

Also isn't Scorpious a PR? Why are we voting him?

Why is he not dead?

[ItalianoVD]

@Scorpious: Why are you not dead?

[ItalianoVD]

So, please enlighten me in each of your own words how Roden being nk’d affected or didn’t affect your reads on me.

Who said this or implied this?

If you’re asking why I asked this, obviously because 2 people felt compelled to vote me. I don’t think this question is out of line in any way.

No, I asked who said this or implied this? I didn’t ask why you asked the question, but who was it that said that they voted for you because of the Roden death. Also I never said the question was out of line. Again who are you talking to or about?

[ItalianoVD]

@Scorpious: Why are you not dead?

Because I want voted D1 and no nk’d N1.

???

[ItalianoVD]

And could you answer 940?

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah MM’s probably town. I don’t think scum post in twilight after getting limmed.

But he’s not saying anything still.

Didn't get to answer this one because of deadline
Any content from a scum player is content for us to analyze, isn't it? I'm biased on this one since the only time I've gotten to play scum on this site, I got limmed day 1, said nothing in twilight, and my partner was able to win.
I just don't see in what way a scum player benefits from posting in twilight after being limmed?

Geraintm I feel like I keep seeing you say things you need to do and then never you doing them

Weekends are bad times for me. Prod me Monday to do stuff

And yet people are in here asking what I’m not dead.

I engage and am almost always read as scum. Ger does this every game and people are like “cool, I’m good with that”.

Very frustrating

I get that. I battle with always getting scumread as well myself, however, the circumstances are indeed different in this particular game.

[ItalianoVD]

Dang it…

Yeah MM’s probably town. I don’t think scum post in twilight after getting limmed.

But he’s not saying anything still.

Didn't get to answer this one because of deadline
Any content from a scum player is content for us to analyze, isn't it? I'm biased on this one since the only time I've gotten to play scum on this site, I got limmed day 1, said nothing in twilight, and my partner was able to win.
I just don't see in what way a scum player benefits from posting in twilight after being limmed?

I’ve seen scum town it up in twilight so I know what scum is capable of. However Monkey wasn’t saying anything that was helping, he did mention how stupid we were for voting him and how much he wasn’t feeling the game; things I’ve seen scum say. I’ve even seen scum give their final readslist, thoughts, and say “well good luck tomorrow, etc.” only to flip red. So no, twilight means nothing to me and like I said I wish he was just scum so it would have felt better and would have made much more sense.

[ItalianoVD]

Also I'm generally curious, I know Crescent's already spoken on it a bit but does MM's flip change you guys' reads much?
Personally not really, since I generally don't build my reads on associatives day 1.

No, I just generally know to look off wagon when a town gets voted out and on wagon when scum does. It’s one of the most basic and generally unchanging scum tactics.

[ItalianoVD]

Vanya's also the only read that really changed for me, because MM's reaction to him felt so forced it didn't feel like scum/scum at all. I had no other reason to think anything good of Vanya.

I’m looking at Vanya a little different for reasons not at all connected to MonkeyMan.

I'm torn between not trusting Scorpious at all and not trusting the quick votes on him - But especially Gamma's. Gamma's vote felt both opportunistic and for a bad reason.

Scorpious being alive is completely NAI - No good scumteam shoots a town Scorpious last night.

Why? Scum kills town power roles and if they don’t one of the reasons for their night kills is to hunt for one. There are two scenarios here and one of them have already been mentioned.

Scorpious softed pr and then pretty much became a loud claim by admitting he softed, although he didn’t specifically say what he was just to clarify.

1) Scum don’t kill him to “frame” him and cause the town to eliminate him because “pr not dead!”
2) He is scum and therefore cannot be night killed.

Which is more likely is the question.

I do have to say the play so far around Scorpious both for and against has me scratching my head and I don’t know who to trust. My gut is telling the posts have been townie, certain interactions have been townie, but logic and simplicity tells me he’s scum. Of course I’m not coming to decision just yet. I want to talk to more people.

[ItalianoVD]

Scum kills the strongest player they believe to be a power role, or the strongest player they feel is least likely to be voted off. A lot of scum simply kill "Best Player Alive" and just leave it at that. I've already made it clear I would've never humored a Scorpious kill as scum last night for even a second.

The issue I have is... Gamma feels like he was already prepared to suspect Scorpious before the day even came up. That's not to say Gamma might not just be bussing him, but I really get a vibe from him that he knew Scorpious was going to be alive.

Okay that’s fair. So then what’s more likely? Scenario 1 or 2?

[ItalianoVD]

At least in your opinion.

[ItalianoVD]

I have several theories in my head regarding Scorpious and the surrounding players that I’m gonna be giving over the next few days given that it seems to be the focal point of the game right now. Don’t take it to heart, I’m getting my thoughts out.

Theory #1

- Crescent and Scorpious (Scumpartners) The little back and forth on Day 1 could have been the partners doing a little theatre and heavy distancing. This is why Crescent didn’t vote Scorpious and why Scorpious voted Crescent, but ultimately didn’t stay there and ended on MonkeyMan

Theory #2

- Crescent & Scorpious (Townies) They are both town and have just been clashing with each other readswise, personality-wise, and play style-wise. The back and forth was genuine townie frustration and misunderstanding of perceptions and interpretations.

Theory #3

- Vanya and Scorpious (Scumpartners) Vanya here for similar reasons as Crescrent with the jump onto Scorpious for voting himself. Was a scum ploy to distance themselves. Both ended on MonkeyMan

Theory #4

- Vanya and Scorpious
(Town v Scum) Vanya could have jumped on town!Scorpious for voting for himself in an effort to get people to jump on and keep that suspicion going while he jumps on another townie in MonkeyMan.

Will have more later but I’m out right now.

[ItalianoVD]

Also if Scorpious is indeed scum I don’t see towncred being that important for Gamma to bus so early in the day, Scorpious being fine with it. I don’t maybe Gamma is just town even if it is town!Scorpious. Be back later.

[ItalianoVD]

Theory #5

- Vanya and Scorpious (Town v Scum or town v town) town!Vanya catches scum!Scorpious voting for himself and Scorpious gets out of the suspicion by soft claiming pr. Vanya stops voting here and is now not wanting to vote for pr. If town!Vanya is interacting with town!Scorpious then it could be why Vanya stopped voting pr and Scorpious sounds so townie.

Theory #6

- Titus and Scorpious (Scumpartners)
Okay so Titus going after her partner for two days in a row is definitely not ideal scumplay, although it could work if there is a greater plan at play.

Theory #7

- Titus and Scorpious(Town v Scum)
Town!Titus has locked on to scum!Scorpious and is not letting him go. It’s pretty simple here and there is not much to perceive.

Theory #8

- (Scum v Town) Scum!Titus locking onto town!Scorpious could maybe work as there is suspicion on Scorpious and if he flips town the reason of scummy behavior could be used which would have been the consensus of everyone and suspicion on scum!Titus could be overlooked with a good enough defense.

[ItalianoVD]

Basically I felt there was a 0% chance Scorpious would die regardless of alignment.

It doesn’t make sense to me, but I may dabble too much into scum wifom.

[ItalianoVD]

Scorpious is apparently an Even Night Jailkeeper and said he crumbed his role with the 1st letter of posts he had on Day 1

E
V
E
N
N
I
G
H
T
J
K

Convenient or Calculated is the question. Did he just post and it just so happened that he found the posts that spelled out his role, or did he purposely post in this way to make sure he could highlight it later? Then the killer question is was this town motivated or scum motivated.

The motivation is in fact nai because for both alignments you are trying to survive and you don’t want to get “falsely” killed and alluding to previous posts as crumbing your role are done by both alignments and it does not in fact prove anything.

However, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck chances are it’s just a duck and Scorpious has sounded townie, reacted townie, and overall has felt townie.

I won’t be voting for Scorpious today. Even night is tonight, but he should more than likely be nightkilled and if he is not we kill him tomorrow. I don’t agree that scum would roleblock instead of kill because there is no guarantee that the target actually gets eliminated. What if there’s a guilty?

Scorpious did pull the pr move in another game and was scum. I believe time will prove this case to be true or false, but I believe there is a better elimination for today.

[ItalianoVD]

And why does this game seem slower even though prod times have been cut in half?

[ItalianoVD]

And why does this game seem slower even though prod times have been cut in half?

Kind of a totally useless comment that feels "easy to say", but the answer is obvious.

The 2 1/2 day break between days 1 and 2 were a huge momentum killer, especially after how that day 1 ended up.

Pretty sure Moose hasn't even posted once?

You responded to my totally useless comment with a totally useless answer.



It didn’t actually require one.

[ItalianoVD]

Also happy birthday Italiano!

Oh wow



Really, thank you.

[ItalianoVD]

Happy Birthday Italiano!!

Enjoy and be safe!

Appreciate it Scorp!

[ItalianoVD]

The push on scorpious today was always going to flush out a claim and nothing else

I can agree with this.

[ItalianoVD]

Gotcha. I mean it could just be used as a sort of worse roleblocker if there's an investigative role or anything that scum would want blocked. Doesn't need to have a vigilante. Scorpious was actually just a 2-shot mafia jailkeeper in a recently completed Datisi mini

Did he claim that game?

[ItalianoVD]

The push on scorpious today was always going to flush out a claim and nothing else

I can agree with this.

No. That's not why he was pushed unless you think scum are taking advantage of me. Scorpious should still be the elimination and I have provided upteen million reasons.

No, I mean the way the wagon was formed it was pretty certain to get the full claim from him since he didn’t on Day 1. I’m keep asking myself if he’s town though why is he not dead? I already know how serious you are about Scorpious and logic keeps telling me he’s scum.

[ItalianoVD]

I can’t disregard logic for feeling however. Hmm

[ItalianoVD]

JacksonVirgo replaces FugitiveMoose

Oh yeah, welcome buddy

[ItalianoVD]

I really think Titus is scum..

Why haven’t you really tried to push her? Her conviction far outweighs yours and as I’ve said I don’t think it’s likely it’s scum!Titus tunneling on town!Scorpious. I said I was willing to give you a chance to get nightkilled which would prove your ”town” claim to be true, so while I trust Titus I don’t think it’ll hurt giving you a day to prove your claim.

[ItalianoVD]

I really think Titus is scum..

Why haven’t you really tried to push her? Her conviction far outweighs yours and as I’ve said I don’t think it’s likely it’s scum!Titus tunneling on town!Scorpious. I said I was willing to give you a chance to get nightkilled which would prove your ”town” claim to be true, so while I trust Titus I don’t think it’ll hurt giving you a day to prove your claim.

And how do you expect me to “prove” my claim?

You’re presenting tasks for me that are nearly impossible to accomplish which sets the table for you to tell me I have not done so later today..

I’ve crumbed, I’ve claimed, I’ve given reasoning and it’s all fallen on deaf ears.

What more are you proposing I do?

And while my case on Titus may “lack conviction” it’s still legit. That amount of words used has no bearing on a thought. If you feel she has more conviction because she posses the ability to case better than I. So be it..

Your literal death will be the proof.

A no kill result doesn’t really prove that you got a block because scum can just no kill and screw with wifom. The more likely scenario if you are town pr is that they just kill you, given that you CAN actually thwart their kill plans.

This is all I mean by proof. I don’t think there is anything that you can do with your role that can actually prove that you are town.

[ItalianoVD]

He's probably just a mafia jailkeeper anyway and wants to be able to try to block power roles again tonight

I might be reading too much into this but this sounds like tmi.

[ItalianoVD]

@Titus: What’s your read on Vanya? Has it changed, stayed the same?

Same question to Scorpious and Gamma.

[ItalianoVD]

And while my case on Titus may “lack conviction” it’s still legit. That amount of words used has no bearing on a thought. If you feel she has more conviction because she posses the ability to case better than I. So be it..

It’s really that I don’t feel as though you actually believe Titus is scum; like it was just said to be said.

I know how Titus really feels based off of the things she’s said in the hood, which is why I am more trusting her than you. Personally don’t think it hurts to give you more time. We won’t be accepting the excuse of scum wifom and why they

didn’t

kill you.

[ItalianoVD]

I know how Titus really feels based off of the things she’s said in the hood, which is why I am more trusting her than you.

Your conviction lacks and your “look elsewhere” plea feels more like scum than town.

Personally don’t think it hurts to give you more time. We won’t be accepting the excuse of scum wifom and why they

didn’t

kill you.

Fixed it because I forgot that part.

[ItalianoVD]

But I don’t wanna fall into another MonkeyMan situation, so that’s why I’m where I’m at right now.

[ItalianoVD]

Carca's Day 2 activity has been pinging me. And then not saying much when she does post.

[ItalianoVD]

Maybe JV but that’s a stretch.

Well JV is Moose's slot and he

was

a hard lurker. Not to shade you JV, but it is what it is.

[ItalianoVD]

To be honest, other than myself all three slots felt like scum.

[ItalianoVD]

She’s called/implied the hood as a masonry as well despite in a 13 player game that’s sus as hell, so if she’s scum I think that *might* clear JV and Italiano.

Let’s not forgot the Vanya slot (you), who I was beginning to feel very iffy on. I understand you’re an IC right now but uhh yeah.

[ItalianoVD]

She’s called/implied the hood as a masonry as well despite in a 13 player game that’s sus as hell, so if she’s scum I think that *might* clear JV and Italiano.

Let’s not forgot the Vanya slot (you), who I was beginning to feel very iffy on. I understand you’re an IC right now but uhh yeah.

?? I am not an IC. I asked Gamma to consider me one so I don’t get a useless answer. I tend to scumread Titus a lot so by narrowing the scope Gamma was serving as a barometer as I think Gamma’s town.

Yeah I know you’re not, I was playing along. Ehh, it’s awkward now.

[ItalianoVD]

Carca's Day 2 activity has been pinging me. And then not saying much when she does post.

Clarify, activity as in post material or frequency?

Both. Feels like you have the game figured out or you like where the gamestate is and are not trying to do anything to change it.

[ItalianoVD]

Can’t post a lot so gotta put this out and bounce.

I can’t townread everybody so I think I’m obviously giving scum, maybe multiple scum a townread and that works for them right now. What doesn’t work is that none of my reads were set in stone as I had said before so presented with new information things would most likely change.

I think if Scorpious, Gamma, Meuh, and geraintm are all town, that of course messes up the gamestate for scum and I’m townreading all of them.

These players, with the exception of Meuh, have been the focal point or the compromise for today and I’d surmise it wasn’t gonna be hard to push any of them through.

Given the new information and the clarification of my own suspicions and paranoia there is a block of four that seems to make the most sense for today.

Block

Titus
Dwlee
Crescent
Carcalilly

And it would be something if the scum team was an all girl team.

I’ll be back later to catchup and whatnot.

[ItalianoVD]

Aight so it calmed down a bit and I’m fairly caught up for the most part. There’s a lot to fully unpack in these past 8 pages, but some of the things were already answered so I’m obviously not gonna be redundant.

Oh yeah and I agree with 1421.

If you wanna substitute myself for Gamma to get jailed just in case that’s also cool. I’m gonna go back and get to what I missed.

[ItalianoVD]

Dwlee is an enby. So if Dwlee is scum not all girl team. Please don’t misgender them even though I think they’re scum.

I didn’t misgender dw. I was literally talking about the girls in the block. The comment right after the block list was a sequence. It was saying “hey I have dwin the block, but wouldn’t it be crazy if it was an all girl scumteam” (referring to the 3 girls)). Definitely not doing that.

[ItalianoVD]

Correct. If I was a PR that could investigate Scorpious (I am in a hood this is purely a hypothetical) I would check where I could verify. Considering no one says Scorpious is town I would bet someone (read not me) has an inno and the wagon is scum driven.

And tell it to the people who scumread Gamma. I see nothing meriting a scumread. The one claim the hammer has been debunked. Move on.

I don't understand how you derive someone having an inno from no one saying scorptown. I'd expect the opposite.

Noone is saying scorp is town?

I am. I am getting an inno on scorp from no one saying there’s a guilty.

This makes sense.

[ItalianoVD]

If most people are for a wagon without a mechanical guilty, it's probably Town.

Yeah this too.

[ItalianoVD]

Correct. If I was a PR that could investigate Scorpious (I am in a hood this is purely a hypothetical) I would check where I could verify. Considering no one says Scorpious is town I would bet someone (read not me) has an inno and the wagon is scum driven.

And tell it to the people who scumread Gamma. I see nothing meriting a scumread. The one claim the hammer has been debunked. Move on.

I don't understand how you derive someone having an inno from no one saying scorptown. I'd expect the opposite.

Noone is saying scorp is town?

Not me who said it. Read what I was responding to.

Considering no one says Scorpious is town I would bet someone (read not me) has an inno and the wagon is scum driven.

I don't understand this deduction.

No one other than me at the time of posting.

No one defending Scorp means probably town.

Scum make a ton of noise when I say look in hood and they don’t.

Scum would be hella nice to me if scum wasn’t in that hood and go “Hey JV Hey Italiano what’s shaking it’s sus you’re quiet” and nada

So scum is in that hood. And more than likely Titus.

Bruh. Like this is crazy because I had this feeling in the back of my mind that hey Titus is probably scum, but I was like nah, that can’t be. The tone is all wrong. But he, in this case “she that doth protest too much”

[ItalianoVD]

Idk why an all girl scumteam even matters
This isn’t Survivor

It’s just cool if it is. Can’t say I’ve seen one.

[ItalianoVD]

Aight so it calmed down a bit and I’m fairly caught up for the most part. There’s a lot to fully unpack in these past 8 pages, but some of the things were already answered so I’m obviously not gonna be redundant.

Oh yeah and I agree with 1421.

If you wanna substitute myself for Gamma to get jailed just in case that’s also cool. I’m gonna go back and get to what I missed.

Nah I think you’re town but I am 99% sure Gamma is so I would rather Gamma jailed sorry.

Nah it’s fine. That’s the best actually.

[ItalianoVD]

Aight so it calmed down a bit and I’m fairly caught up for the most part. There’s a lot to fully unpack in these past 8 pages, but some of the things were already answered so I’m obviously not gonna be redundant.

Oh yeah and I agree with 1421.

If you wanna substitute myself for Gamma to get jailed just in case that’s also cool. I’m gonna go back and get to what I missed.

Math has a gunsmith clear on me and Titus claimed doctor
JK should be on me.

Yeah it’s cool. I forgot that.

[ItalianoVD]

If most people are for a wagon without a mechanical guilty, it's probably Town.

Yeah this too.

This mentality makes me iffy because I recently saw a town almost totally throw a game on day 4 by convincing itself the guy everyone thought was scum probably wasn't.

Yeah reading it again, there is definitely some grey area there, but I’ve found that that is true a lot of the times.

[ItalianoVD]

Cough cough check the hood please

Already there.

[ItalianoVD]

We’re not doing Scorpious people. Pick your number two if you really think he is.

This.

[ItalianoVD]

Of Dwlee and Titus , Titus is a more dangerous and influential scum. But you’re the only one I’m really trusting.
And by virtue of that Gamma is good with me too.

VOTE: Dwlee

Math. You’re blocced for me. gamma tonight?

Pedit- I was going to vote Titus

lol

If Scorpious ever attempted to vote scum maybe I could see him being town

Uhh yeah, I can go here. Or Carca if need be.
VOTE: dwlee

[ItalianoVD]

Actually no.

VOTE: Carcalilly

[ItalianoVD]

So yeah I think it’s pretty much been set where we’re going and what we’re doing. Multiple people (Math, myself, JV, Gera, even Carca) had already said we either weren’t eliminating Scorpious today and/or giving him a day to do what he has to do. We have leashed him to Gamma so to me anyone ending the day voting there is a scumclaim. Like Math said work with us not against us. If you’re town compromise and try to find a common ground somewhere.

[ItalianoVD]

I've also said I'm not voting Scorpious today.

Oh no you’re right, my mistake.

[ItalianoVD]

For the record I don't town read Scorpious at all
I read him as so scummy I question whether or not scum would allow themselves to look as consistently bad as he has.

I havent had the "too scummy to be scum" paranoia in *years*.

I get this and it’s like that sometimes, but I don’t see it that way on Scorp.

Regardless, someone decided to townclear Ger earlier for doing basically nothing but rehashing what we already know and treating it like content. I don't remember who did that offhand, but it's not like it really added anything. It was more fluff disguised as substance. Lots of Ger posts have been fluff disguised as substance or simply promising to give more.

That might’ve been me. It’s not really what he hasn’t done and why he’s not here, but what he has done when he is here. I know people see it as he is not doing anything or promising to do things that he doesn’t do. To me it’s kinda unfair for people to always say this about him because who are you or others to say what constitutes as substance? It’s all subjective. Imo he’s done more than a lot of the players.

Could he be scum? Sure he can and it’d be best for us to keep that option an open possibility for later in the game, but for now I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. I can certainly towncase him if you want me to.

I actually question how anyone could actually have a strong townread on Scorp though based on his play.

I can try to towncase Scorp as well if you want me to.

Another thing, for meta purposes I have 3 games with Scorp, well more like 2.5 games. In one game he replaced into a scumslot that had already been part of the game solve on the last day before endgame, so I won’t count that one although I won’t totally throw it away because there was still something there to glean from him being scum.

The other two games was scum!Scorp and town!Scorp. In the town game he was a lot more frustrated and emotional (not in a bad way) but in a townie way. I pegged him as town after scumreading him for a time and ended up trying to get town to move off him. He ended up being the Day 1 miselim.

As scum he does claim roles but overall his tone is less frustrated and more semi-arrogant and snark; at times condescending. Now it’s fine line there because he does have that as town, but there’s an ever so slight difference that I pick up on because I’m a tone reader. I’ll try to find examples tomorrow if I can.

[ItalianoVD]

We’re not doing Scorpious people. Pick your number two if you really think he is.

This.

We are doing Scorpious. Get off your high horse. We are not letting outed scum go. If we do that we lose.

No we don’t. He has a target on his back that’s ringing loudly. IF he is scum he will be taken care of later on, especially if the ones calling for him to not get eliminated are killed. He’s not a priority right now.

[ItalianoVD]

I think we can push through Carca. There were people who could compromise there others like Gera who didn’t like her play but didn’t vote.

[ItalianoVD]

I think we can push through Carca. There were people who could compromise there others like Gera who didn’t like her play but didn’t vote.

Also possibly dw

[ItalianoVD]

Then let’s do it.

If you object to Carca give a town case or a scum case on someone else (NOT Scorpious)
Let’s get conversations moving

Who are you voting for?

[ItalianoVD]

Then let’s do it.

If you object to Carca give a town case or a scum case on someone else (NOT Scorpious)
Let’s get conversations moving

No one’s here at the moment and I’m about to hit the hay. I’ll try to pop in on the morning though.

[ItalianoVD]

Then let’s do it.

If you object to Carca give a town case or a scum case on someone else (NOT Scorpious)
Let’s get conversations moving

Who are you voting for?

I am not. I said I would hammer anyone I agree with to ensure hammer happens.

Ahh yeah that’s right.

[ItalianoVD]

Dwlee why G over Carca?

Gera is scummy

What’s your case on Gera?

[ItalianoVD]

Wait what! Meuh, we’re May babies?! Haha nice, happy birthday!

[ItalianoVD]

I wasn't in my shell at all day 1 (I was by far the leading poster at the end of the day, even), but MM flipping town damaged the game for me, and I am very easily influenced by outside factors that have nothing to do with the game, aka Monday. I'm kind of just drifting along the game right now because I'm not psychologically capable of really driving the discussion like I was yesterday. I'd be in bed processing and half-hallucinating right now if I could be.

I'm processing right now that Ger and Carca seem to be primarily trying to kill each other, and outside of Carca also wanting Scorpious dead, there seems to be a fair amount of white noise coming out as they're doing it. Like who does Ger actually suspect outside of Carca? Though he's being very self-player metay in a weirdly town feeling way that I can't explain.

I’m happy to hear this, well not happy that you were feeling bad but that there is an explanation for the difference of your play in Day 2. I mentioned this in the hood. I had you as pretty much my town lock for town telling multiple times on Day 1, but Day 2 there were comments and my own paranoia that had me placing you as possible scum with Scorpious, etc.

But I see now I should’ve asked or mentioned it and I would have gotten this insight sooner. My bad.

[ItalianoVD]

Mmm keep in mind that these kinds of things will effect me regardless of my alignment. My Seasonal Affective is also playing a factor because it finally warmed up the last few days, and when it warms up I go a bit haywire internally until my body adjusts. I have a natural temperature around 97F/36.2C, and tend to naturally function better in the cold.

Oh wow, I tend to keep my house between 60-65F/15.6C. Anything about 75F/23.9C and I And I absolutely love when it’s and overcast; no sun and cool temps, etc.

But yes, something you said about Scorpious has been on my mind. He's given the vibe of "creating distance" from me more than he's ever given the vibe of ever actually trying to kill me.

I’ve noticed that with Titus and dw as well. Like he thinks they’re scum but not really trying to prove that they are, just that they’re voting him so “yeah, scum.”

[ItalianoVD]

Votecount 2.3

Line Rider Beta 2 (2006) - fsk

Scorpious

(3): Titus, Dwlee99, Carcalilly

geraintm

(1): Meuh

Carcalilly

(1): Gamma Emerald

Meuh

(1): JacksonVirgo

Not Voting

(5): Scorpious, geraintm, Crescent, ItalianoVD, MathBlade
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-05-19 22:33:37)
Titus V/LA Friday Evening - Monday Morning
Crescent V/LA this week

Quoting prior VC for timer c’mon y’all let’s get an elim!

Bruh we might have like 8 hours or so left.

[ItalianoVD]

He seems too busy waffling or contradicting on almost every read he has to actually have conviction on anything.

Ironically that might be a towntell.

[ItalianoVD]

Votecount 2.3

Line Rider Beta 2 (2006) - fsk

Scorpious

(3): Titus, Dwlee99, Carcalilly

geraintm

(1): Meuh

Carcalilly

(1): Gamma Emerald

Meuh

(1): JacksonVirgo

Not Voting

(5): Scorpious, geraintm, Crescent, ItalianoVD, MathBlade
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-05-19 22:33:37)
Titus V/LA Friday Evening - Monday Morning
Crescent V/LA this week

Quoting prior VC for timer c’mon y’all let’s get an elim!

Bruh we might have like 8 hours or so left.

The timer updates naturally, whatever time’s listed is accurate, we have over 24 hours left!

Oh okay. Koba posted it on Tuesday so I figured the time would have elapsed.

[ItalianoVD]

He seems too busy waffling or contradicting on almost every read he has to actually have conviction on anything.

Ironically that might be a towntell.

Like I said, if this is how he normally plays as town, it's no wonder to me it's been stated several times this game that he's a magnet for votes.

Time will tell and I don’t think Scorpious will endgame.

[ItalianoVD]

I’ve noticed that with Titus and dw as well. Like he thinks they’re scum but not really trying to prove that they are, just that they’re voting him so “yeah, scum.”

Cause Scorpious is scum

Yeah maybe.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m here.

[ItalianoVD]

Let’s talk. If Titus and dw are town, who would be scum to you? Is it still Gera? Crescent?

[ItalianoVD]

@Scorpious: Thoughts on Meuh?

[ItalianoVD]

That could be giving someone like,say a Meuh to just to sit back and watch us self destruct.

My bad, just saw this.

[ItalianoVD]

Let’s try something.

UNVOTE: Carcalilly

[ItalianoVD]

10 hours left.

[ItalianoVD]

What’s going on with JV?

[ItalianoVD]

What do y’all make of Scorp’s 1814?

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Carcalilly
I believe that’s hammer

[ItalianoVD]

I kinda now think Italiano only unvoted specifically to see if I would vote...

I also wanted to hammer so we wouldn’t have left it up to chance. I’m also thinking differently about a few things but seeing as I shouldn’t be a target tonight I’ll expound on those tomorrow.

[ItalianoVD]

Because she desperately has to get rid of Scorpious before he acts.

So nightkill him.

[ItalianoVD]

Carca is already hammered and their response was to tell me to eat ass

Spoiler:

Feeds the light and do not cover the face of the moon,
Under this cloudless horizon.
Came the loneliness was defeated,
Knocked down, dragged.

You become responsible for all of those you have tamed.
Of course, that death is not played,
Unforgotten.

Cool consent is awesome.

Do you have any reads?

Why even try anymore We might as well join the festivities.

[ItalianoVD]

Titus,
I’ll make you a deal..

If I flip scum I will retire from MS..

How’s that one work?

Oops can't do that.

Ain't that against the rules or something?

[ItalianoVD]

ItalianoVD

geraintm

Gamma Emerald*

Meuh

Scorpious

JacksonVirgo

Titus*

MathBlade

Crescent

Dwlee99*

Carcalilly

Hey what's blue mean? Asking for a friend.

[ItalianoVD]

Hypothetically it is but calling out things like that is also against the rules so let’s all pretend that doesn’t exist.

Oh really?? Dang my bad then.

[ItalianoVD]

Things you can say during sex AND a funeral.. go!

I'm sorry, were you close.

[ItalianoVD]

I can’t say I’m surprised that Math was killed, although, I was sorta suspicious of him in the hood but that was more so due to my paranoia and general wifomming. Titus has been non-existent in the thread and I just don’t see that coming from town. Math consistently asked her for reads and was consistently ignored. Nothing she said made me feel that she was town. I actually started feeling suspicious of her when she wasn’t talking in the hood, given she made such a huge deal about it in thread. I feel if Titus is somehow not scum, JV in fact is, as they’ve been pinging since replacing in, both in the hood and in thread.

But I feel like town has generally worked together this game. Not a lot of apathy and a lot of mindmelding; like everyone is paying attention. It feels good.

I now have my lock town list of:

Crescent
Gamma
Scorpious
Geraintm

The pool of eliminations are in

Meuh, Titus, JacksonVirgo, dwlee

I think I’ll be ending up on Meuh or Titus today, unless JV keeps scumming it up. Dwlee is the odd one out and is probably still town.

[ItalianoVD]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13374850#p13374850]post 2022[/url], Dwlee99"]I voted for Carca because MathBlade insisted on it and I figured there was no point fighting without flips
So you had no reading on her, you just followed? Are you known to do this in general?

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=13374850#p13374850]post 2022[/url], Dwlee99"]Gera and Scorpious can still both be scum but I guess I should reconsider Titus based on whatever was happening in hood[/quote]
Yeah, this sounds like scum.

[ItalianoVD]

I voted for Carca because MathBlade insisted on it and I figured there was no point fighting without flips

So you had no reading on her, you just followed? Are you known to do this in general?

Gera and Scorpious can still both be scum but I guess I should reconsider Titus based on whatever was happening in hood

Uhh, this sounds like scum.

[ItalianoVD]

2010 is probably the best post I’ve seen in a long time very much where I ended up being after reading and refreshing.

[ItalianoVD]

Ger s probably town. He comes off to me as a guy scum has been setting up as a scapegoat.

I agree with this as well. I had been trying to throw out hints to the Gera voters to try to look at geraintm town or ask for a towncase, but *crickets*, and now given one was scum, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that there are more.

[ItalianoVD]

Atp Titus scum flip gives a townblock of me + Italiano + Crescent + Scorpious + ig gera and JV as I see it

Yup

[ItalianoVD]

I can't remember the last time I didn't see a day come up on time. Is it kinda normal here? It's happened both days this game. It would explain why I seem to have been the only person OCD refreshing the page for an hour...

this mod seems to not give a single fuck about effective modding >:(

Don’t we have a backup mod? I thought that’s why they’re there.

[ItalianoVD]

Also Italiano can confirm if she's been super duper quiet in Hood chat

considering it originally sounded like she was the only one talking

. It really does inflect badly on her.

And this wasn’t even the case.

When I replaced in these were the posts numbers:

Vanya (8)
Titus (5)
Andres (3)
Moose (0)

Out of all those posts there was only (1) actual game advancing post by Vanya.

[ItalianoVD]

I expressed I found carca was kind of scummy. My read on Gera was way stronger though

I commented on your apparent reluctance to vote Carca in the hood, because that’s how it felt to me. Also Gera was at 3 votes when Carca was at four and you were on Gera’s wagon. I know you said you were following Math but the timing felt very off. It just seemed like

you

should have been the one pushing or bringing Math to Gera given how scummy you thought he was.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually to be fair these are you talking about Carca, saying she was suspect, but that Gera was more scummy to you.

Spoiler:

Assuming your not today's elim scorp, I'd be willing to wait for N2. If you're legit, you could prove it.

How is Scorpious gonna prove he is a jailkeeper?

And even if he does... How does that prove his alignment?

I actually agree with a good chunk.

Top down with points to add:

Gera: I scumread gera more than you do. He does not sound townie and things feel kinda forced
Gamma: didn't like their vote on me but I don't think JV AND Gamma are scum prob
Math: prob town but I think I have more reservations just cause the dismissal of scum!Scorpious
Vanya: prob town(?)
Crescent: okay kinda true
Carca: they have mild sussery

You also don't mention JV but the white knight for Scorpious is weird. Step back on me okay but that their vote is still there and they haven't committed to any scumread I'm wary of them

Carca: they have mild sussery

Gera is way scummier than carca though imo

To be less snarky: I am pushing Scorpious. I know I'm town

I strongly believe Titus is town.

That means at least 2 town pushing Scorpious, so you can't just claim it's textbook scum behavior.

Carca could be scum, but the reason for being scum is not pushing Scorpious

Dwlee why G over Carca?

Gera is scummy

Does math really think that all 3 scum are the most wanting Scorpious? Like Me/Titus/Carca just all thought it was a genius idea to pile on to the same wagon?

Yeah I don’t like this at all. If anything this makes me more convinced we should elim Carcalilly.

Carcalilly does nothing, acts like caught scum, then people pile on saying don’t vote with shitty reasons.

If Carcalilly towntold then that would have been your argument earlier

And Ger? And Scorpious?

Your poe can be wrong

VOTE: carca
let's get it over with

Hmm. I'm starting to think you maybe were pressured by Math at the point you voted Carca and just wanted the day to end.

[ItalianoVD]

Though it feels like Titus' part wasn't much either, then?

Yeah, exactly. All of the posts were about mechanics and how to do things in the hood, so nothing of substance. Vanya, who had never been in a hood asked what he's supposed to be doing and Titus let him know just use it as a secondary scumhunting tool (i.e., to bounce ideas off), etc.

The times she did post there it felt like she was trying to gather information rather than scumhunt or give out reads. I've never played this close to Titus as we've never been scum together or Masons so I still don't really know if this is AI, but just in general it doesn't feel like how a town player would play.

[ItalianoVD]

@Titus: Did you doctor Math? If not, why not? If so, then hmm.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually to be fair these are you talking about Carca, saying she was suspect, but that Gera was more scummy to you.

Spoiler:

Assuming your not today's elim scorp, I'd be willing to wait for N2. If you're legit, you could prove it.

How is Scorpious gonna prove he is a jailkeeper?

And even if he does... How does that prove his alignment?

I actually agree with a good chunk.

Top down with points to add:

Gera: I scumread gera more than you do. He does not sound townie and things feel kinda forced
Gamma: didn't like their vote on me but I don't think JV AND Gamma are scum prob
Math: prob town but I think I have more reservations just cause the dismissal of scum!Scorpious
Vanya: prob town(?)
Crescent: okay kinda true
Carca: they have mild sussery

You also don't mention JV but the white knight for Scorpious is weird. Step back on me okay but that their vote is still there and they haven't committed to any scumread I'm wary of them

Carca: they have mild sussery

Gera is way scummier than carca though imo

To be less snarky: I am pushing Scorpious. I know I'm town

I strongly believe Titus is town.

That means at least 2 town pushing Scorpious, so you can't just claim it's textbook scum behavior.

Carca could be scum, but the reason for being scum is not pushing Scorpious

Dwlee why G over Carca?

Gera is scummy

Does math really think that all 3 scum are the most wanting Scorpious? Like Me/Titus/Carca just all thought it was a genius idea to pile on to the same wagon?

Yeah I don’t like this at all. If anything this makes me more convinced we should elim Carcalilly.

Carcalilly does nothing, acts like caught scum, then people pile on saying don’t vote with shitty reasons.

If Carcalilly towntold then that would have been your argument earlier

And Ger? And Scorpious?

Your poe can be wrong

VOTE: carca
let's get it over with

Hmm. I'm starting to think you maybe were pressured by Math at the point you voted Carca and just wanted the day to end.

That's the point I was making. It's why DWLee's vote on Carca has no town equity. The vote was only there because it was forced to be there.

Yeah, but now we have to figure out if that's townie or scummy. If dw is town and Carca was just following them around it makes sense her being on both of dw's scumreads, which you said. If partners the actions make sense because dw would have wanted some towncred, agreed to bus carca and could just say he was following Math, which he has already said.

[ItalianoVD]

You can look at dw's progression on Carca two ways:

1) A town!dwlee who really felt that Gera was more scummy then Carca and just voted for them to get the day and because they felt pressured by Math.

2) A scum!dwlee distancing from Carca throwing out the Gera read given it was a small consensus and knowing it could get traction, but when it started to look like it wasn't going to go through they agreed to bus their partner, try to get towncred, and if asked say they were following Math and/or felt pressured.

It's about what's more likely in these scenarios. I'd like others to weigh in on this and see what they think.

[ItalianoVD]

It's not a bus vote on Carca when Carca was already definitely going to die after my vote there.

Bus implies having something to actually do with why the player was voted off. Cards was going to die with or without DWlee's vote there.

There's no towncred for a late tack on vote. I feel like a bus for the sake of credibility comes before my vote.

Yeah that's fine, we have a different interpretation of bussing, but it's cool.

[ItalianoVD]

Cards? You auto corrected that one? None of the others?

That great old autocorrect.

[ItalianoVD]

It's not a bus vote on Carca when Carca was already definitely going to die after my vote there.

Bus implies having something to actually do with why the player was voted off. Cards was going to die with or without DWlee's vote there.

There's no towncred for a late tack on vote. I feel like a bus for the sake of credibility comes before my vote.

Yeah that's fine, we have a different interpretation of bussing, but it's cool.

You can look at dw's progression on Carca two ways:

1) A town!dwlee who really felt that Gera was more scummy then Carca and just voted for them to get the day and because they felt pressured by Math.

2) A scum!dwlee distancing from Carca throwing out the Gera read given it was a small consensus and knowing it could get traction, but when it started to look like it wasn't going to go through they agreed to bus their partner, try to get towncred, and if asked say they were following Math and/or felt pressured.

It's about what's more likely in these scenarios. I'd like others to weigh in on this and see what they think.

I just disagree with your assessment of why they voted to begin with. Mathblade didn't pressure DWlee into voting for Carca. Carca being put to 5 votes made it clear Carca was getting axed. This was the sole reason DWlee changed their vote. There is no scum nor town equity to a switch to a dead-player-walking.

And that's fine. Gera and Carca were at 3 votes after I unvoted. You put it to 4, dw to 5, me to 6 - HAMMER. When I unvoted there was still discussion going on and I don't agree that Carca was a forgone conclusion.

[ItalianoVD]

Mathblade didn't pressure DWlee into voting for Carca.

But yet they posted this...

Spoiler:

I voted for Carca because MathBlade insisted on it and I figured there was no point fighting without flips

[ItalianoVD]

Carca was a foregone conclusion the moment my vote went there because it effectively made it 5. Your vote being temporarily off didn't change much.

That's not correct. The last votecount in 1801 has Carca at 4 votes. I unvote in 1822 putting her at 3 votes. You voted Carca in 1843 putting her back at 4 votes. Three posts later dw places their vote in 1846. I hammer in 1848.

[ItalianoVD]

Carca was a foregone conclusion the moment my vote went there because it effectively made it 5. Your vote being temporarily off didn't change much.

That's not correct. The last votecount in 1801 has Carca at 4 votes. I unvote in 1822 putting her at 3 votes. You voted Carca in 1843 putting her back at 4 votes. Three posts later dw places their vote in 1846. I hammer in 1848.

Your vote was as good as still on her.

Doesn’t matter. The vote count shows she wasn’t a forgone conclusion. Math was trying my to make it so and felt a type of way when JV townlocked Carca and I unvoted.

I mean, you unvoted just to see if I would vote as a result. Your read didn't magically change in the situation.

Right, but that’s not the point here, lol. Dw placed Carca at hammer territory with their vote. It didn’t matter if it was me, you or someone else that actually did the hammer. Dw didn’t know what I was going to do, since they weren’t in my head. They may or may not have even seen the unvote, for all they knew if they did was I could’ve been voting for anyone.

It’s important people know the actual events to get the full picture to be able to form efficient opinions.

[ItalianoVD]

Honestly this is all kinda just semantics because we agree they're probably just town-incorrect-on-everything anyway.

Lol you’re right. I think we both just wanna be right. I’ll chill.

[ItalianoVD]

Question: How would one know if mafia has a strongman or not given the lack of information? Clearly not something a townie would know. And what does speculating about it do or not do for reads, etc.

[ItalianoVD]

And it would be something if the scum team was an all girl team.

Wrong team, but right idea.

[ItalianoVD]

Good job town!

[ItalianoVD]

Great job town. We worked well together and were able to really take it to scum.

[ItalianoVD]

Great job town. We worked well together and were able to really take it to scum.

I have to admit you worried me slightly because we kept mind melding.

Lol I get that. But it's always good when you can have townies who can allow the town to be very conducive for scumhunting and I felt like you did a good job with that. Math as well.

[ItalianoVD]

Yeah thanks Koba! Love the playerlist and will go to battle with or against you guys anytime.