Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Aristeia]

nothing is 100% tho

I would've known what you meant

[Aristeia]

My thoughts about Dats:

[The Cute Guy with Green Hair and an Adorable Hat]



I've played 8 games with Datisi, 1 game that he modded, and 1 game we've hydra'd together.

This would make game #9.

One thing that seems to always happen is that this adorable green haired man always manages to scumread me in some convoluted manner[without fail!] [even when he was mafia!] <he thought I was his traitor, he's cute I know>

So I was surprised to find that he figured out I was town relatively early this game; 138.

It's kind of what I want to happen - but it's also like "Wait a second is this too good to be true? How does Dats figure out your alignment that quickly? You're not like that obvtown yet - you were way more obvtown in other games and he was still scumreading you right up till you flipped town so like uh what's going on here"

Now that's a very toxic path of thought to go down for me because it puts into conflict two things I want

A: Dats reads me as town correctly.

B: I get ridiculously paranoid about Dats townreading me correctly.

and like I want him to get better at reading me and being right - I don't want him to think oh I have to fake paranoia or extend a thought process in dealing with her just to get her to townread me. Like I don't want to be needy and ridiculously difficult to make happy - that's not a good feeling.

So like I kind of just slotted him in as town because paranoid thoughts are bad for me and I'd rather think happy thoughts like "Dats is getting better at reading me and he is going to carry me to a win this game because he is amazing"


So I'm going to evaluate his gameplay on the basis of things that have nothing to do with me because I think it would be quite awful for me to scumread him for townreading me and it leads me down a bad rabbit hole. [Also I really like the feeling of being townread by Dats and I don't want him to not townread me in the future just because it makes me think he's pocketing me. I like being pocketed, I am human]


I like his thread presence - he feels like he actively wants to be here (yes I know it's not a very good way to read people but like compared to Spring Fling - I feel like he is a lot more proactive about being in the thread and actually interacting/solving people rather than just going through the motions)

I like his tone - he just feels comfortable and not at all like he's stressed (this is ironic because datisi's townstress is very obvtown and his paranoia is fun to read).

I like the trajectories he's following on each player - they kind of make sense and he takes turns and pays attention to details that I sometimes just skim over.

Lastly I really do like that he keeps trying to pull me into the coalition with him[not just because I want to flirt with him]

I think he knows I'm very hard to mis-eliminate so putting me into a coalition really is limiting his own mislim opportunities and making it harder for himself post-coalition failure and I'm not sure why he would want to do that? It really does feel like he wants a coalition that will work.

Maybe I'm just like super pocketed cuz I'm dumb but I really do want to believe he's town here :<

[Aristeia]

@ari why not std?

I am sheeping Dats because in the world where we have to kill him I want him to have a chance to win for us

[Aristeia]

I don't have any solid reason to suspect STD - I just trust Datisi more at this point.

[Aristeia]

fwiw i do think mena is more townie than STD atp

[Aristeia]

they are tied at 3-3 each i think

me/mena/dats are voting for the one with mena

skitter/irrel/std are voting for the one with std

[Aristeia]

I am officially jealous that Mena gets a post like that :<

[Aristeia]

HURT: all
HEAL: datisi
HEAL: menalque
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: irrelephant
HEAL: ari

this is E-1 on the coalition

[Aristeia]

fen is it over?

[Aristeia]

ugh

[Aristeia]

theres 5 people on this coalition

and 2 people off coalition for it

so if ur town and no scum are throwing

then um you would know?

[Aristeia]

its already hammered

[Aristeia]

like unless the scum team is exactly std/mala i dont see how this passes without scum voting for an all town coalition which would be um

a thing

[Aristeia]

i dunno maybe scum!nk15 is conceding by hammering an all town coalition i can dream right

[Aristeia]

>_____________________________________________>

moood

[Aristeia]

i now regret suggesting to Datisi that we join this game

[Aristeia]

Can we lim NK15

we should lim in the coalition first

[Aristeia]

why me over Dats?

[Aristeia]

And can we just assume nk15 is scum for hammering?

I can see town!Nk15 deciding to hammer out of spite since nobody is listening to him

[Aristeia]

Thanks dats, that was v helpful
You put to words a lot of what i was vibing

I can do the mena version if necessary too

->

Just wanna say that this is lowkey frustrating given that that was my like 3rd option and i didnt want ari/dats in it at all, and if we had to have them i wanted std instead of mena

doesn't compute for me.

I think I offered multiple times today to sheep you on a coalition without me in it so I'm not sure why you're frustrated that I sheeped Dats when you couldn't make up your mind on your five.

[Aristeia]

i feel like i failed for not towntelling enough :<

Let's not live in the past. We still have a game to play.

[Aristeia]

well I'm trying to not let how badly I feel show because last time Prism said it was a bit much

[Aristeia]

also like I think morale is somewhat important to stay upbeat in the face of a setback.

[Aristeia]

do you have any actual reasons to suspect me of being mafia here?

[Aristeia]

~ i really should have stuck to my guns for me/irrel/mena/std ~ ...

like I literally offered to sheep you for your 4 + ???[and offered to not be in the five] and you never even gave me a five person coalition you really wanted so I'm really not vibing with you being fustrated at me atp for ????

I think I have been more than accommodating for you?

[Aristeia]

mb fire's just right i dunno now :<

i'll be happy to sheep whatever you decide to skitter <3

brain feel mushy

also would prefer we get a decision in b4 we get 3 days on the clock.

I offered to sheep you here like days ago??? I'm not sure you ever gave me five names that you really wanted.

[Aristeia]

I also said at least 4x that if you got in and it failed i would want to flip u before elo (tbf the paranoia kicked in before i thought it would)

no you said you wanted to flip me at elo if i didnt solve the game by then

[Aristeia]

Also i did ask u to put std instead of dats and you shied away from that so telling me you would have sheeped me is kinda ehhhhh given that you didnt really seem into acting on that

ok so why does scum!me decide to have dats join us on the coalition instead of STD that you wanted?

[Aristeia]

Skitts, enjoy Shabbat don't worry about the game. it'll still be here when you get back.

[Aristeia]

well you were the most healed person the first time I did a VC so I guess you're kind of stuck being the leader unless someone else wants it.

I can be your fifth if you want me to be your fifth because I know I'm town but if you don't know it I suggest you find someone you can trust.

[Aristeia]

the idea that scum me uses town!dats as the fall guy and sacrificial pawn is kind of gross.

I would not do that - I am not even sure if I could think of such a move.

[Aristeia]

I don't think you are actually worried about being nightkilled when you are in the big poe. it's a bit much tbh.

[Aristeia]

I've taken some time to review some of the things you've accused me of skitter and here's how I see it;


Re: Accusation that I wasn't really willing to sheep you on the coalition that

you

wanted;


This is the first instance of me offering to sheep you:



This was while I still believed we had to do a coalition and then had limited time to eliminate.



This was in reference to your coalition at the time 591 which was "me/dats/irrel/std/mena" - essentially the same coalition that passed except with me swapped in for STD. I know for a fact that coalition would also have failed because I am town.



^ this is me trying to coalesce support for your preferred coalition at the time.

- I am literally getting you to the five votes you need[you were at 2] ; Irrelephant should be fine with switching his vote from aristeia to himself, if Datisi is ok with STD instead of me that makes four and I literally said I would be fine to hammer that coalition.

So like when I am under the idea that we are on limited time I am actively trying to get you the votes you need to get your coalition passed. In the next post I realized the VC in 623 says the mod is not counting votes to elim and it's the second VC that says this, I think it's kind of strange since we're pretty close to hitting deadline - that's when I asked the mod about how the day would actually work - that's when I found out we actually do have time for this.


it's at this point that you drop Dats from your preferred coalition:




I again offer to leave myself off the coalition with my scumreads:



Which is a pretty stupid thing to do if you've dropped Dats!scum from the coalition and you're sitting with Irrel/Mena/STD all town in a coalition and you're just trying to fill the last spot no?

I am literally ceding all form of thread control to you and offering to stick behind with the people I scumread. If at any point you decide hey I want to add ___ to my list wouldn't I pretty much be going along with it there?

in fact I express this read on NK15:



Do you think I'm trying to push a scum!NK15 into your coalition as #5? How does that help me win? Coalition fails, you yeet NK15, you follow that post and yeet me/dats - > game over. Do you actually think I ever say that about NK15 if he's doing a derp tunnel on me? As much as derp tunneling your teammate is borderline game throwing - sharing that type of meta to break the distancing ploy is even more gamethrowing.





^ at this point it's Friday morning and we're running out of time again and I offer yet again to sheep you on whatever you are confident in. You ask me for my read on Dats and I give it to you.

If you tell me you really want a coalition, I probably sheep you on it.

but

There is only one difference between Datisi's Coalition and the Coalition you wanted. [You had STD instead of Me in your final vote thing]

That involved me being in the coalition. I know for a fact that I am town and that if your coalition would pass, then Datisi's coalition would also pass so the game would end either way.

What I can't accept is letting you kill Datisi if your coalition fails because it's your coalition in the first place.[You had made it very clear he was the first person you'd go to flip upon coalition failure] If you really want to flip Dats card, I need the coalition to be made by him; I can't accept you killing him with

your preferred coalition passing

I would fight you tooth and nail over that and this thread would become extremely unpleasant.

That's why I ended up voting for the coalition with me instead of STD. I know for a fact your coalition would also have failed. If you had wanted a coalition that was significantly different where this clause doesn't come into play I would've been fine with it. I think I have been extremely transparent in my willingness to support you throughout this game and to push your preferred coalition through multiple times when both myself and Datisi were off of it which makes very little sense if your coalition was already compromised to begin with. It feels incredibly strange to me that you think Fire made a good point that if I am scum, then I have to be partnered with someone already on your coalition but you've decided that Dats/Ari are the place that you want to start with.

[Aristeia]

Sorry last one and then i'm going!
Once i indicated dats was where i would flip first and it was obvious you/dats were a pair basically - it always behooves scum-you to have him in there no matter his alignment once you were in there (and basically everyone but me and like mala/nk15 wanted it iirc)

If he's town there's your first misflip
If he's scum you can always argue once he's flipped that the coalition is clean

I want to address this accusation here in this post;


Datisi is one of the hardest players to misflip on this site - he very rarely gets misflipped as town and only by truly stupid people because my god when this man radiates townieness it is blinding. He hasn't gotten there yet this game but if he was threatened I think he probably can get there.

I doubt I would ever think of trying to misflip him. Not only would I feel incredibly bad about it - but like it's just not something that's easy or strategically sound to do? There are many people I would find easier to misflip in this PL, I don't think there's actually a player more difficult to misflip than him.

The thought of trying to put him into the coalition to set him up as a misflip after townreading him is just not something I would do or even consider doing. It's just so bizarre that the thought would never even cross my mind - my scum game for all you rave about it is actually fairly simple - I mostly try to flip the people who are easy to flip. I don't really try to jump over a 50 foot fence when there is a nice open door somewhere else.

secondly I didn't even want to be on the coalition until Datisi talked me into it:



I was perfectly content to sit off coalition with my scumreads and play support for you. I didn't force my way into your coalition and drag Dats in to be some decoy, he was the one who convinced me to come.

[Aristeia]

If it’s the latter, we can just agree now: neither you nor I will be in the coalition. If it’s the former, explain how I (the player who I would argue has done the most to move the game forward, but I digress) am scummier than malakittens, NK15, and your other scumread, Save the Dragons (who has the same reads as me but has done less to make the rest of the playerlist sortable).
If you’re town, sort out my alignment in discussion with skitter and menalque.

Pedit: HURT: all
HEAL: skitter
Save the dragons
Menalque
Datisi
Aristeia

I have issues with pushing Irrel because of this ^

This was essentially the same coalition that passed except with STD instead of Irrel.

So if Irrel is the lone scum in the coalition - he would have to be scum with exactly STD for this coalition that he's voting for without himself on it not to be like gamelosing right off the bat and like I'm not sure I see Irrel - STD as a scum team because of some of the things STD has said today about himself being on the same page with Irrel[which is like kind of mindboggling to do if you're S-S]

I haven't actually sat down and re-read everything yet; just kind of waiting for skitter to come back and talk to me about her push.

[Aristeia]

and like I'm not sure I see Irrel - STD as a scum team because of some of the things STD has said today about himself being on the same page with Irrel[which is like kind of mindboggling to do if you're S-S]

i mean they did start saying that only after i already said i thought they were most likely to be partners with each other so to me it just looks like they were trying to damage control and make it look like one pocketed the other even tho idk if that really reflects the actual progression of things

I dunno I just rarely see 2 scum decide to say they townread each other because they vibe with each other's thoughts - it feels like too refuge in audacity for me to see as likely. I'll keep an eye out for it on my re-read.

[Aristeia]

Dats am I hopeless pocketed by you rn?

[Aristeia]

Dats am I hopeless pocketed by you rn?

obviously <3

[Aristeia]

if you're actually mafia I think I might never live this down :>

[Aristeia]

I fell asleep reading this heaven/hell game

[Aristeia]

i just woke up from my nap

i had a dream that me/skitter/dats were drinking at a bar

I snoozing on Datisi's shoulder because I had a bit too much to drink and his shoulder smelled nice

Skitter was fighting with the waiter because she had too much to drink and he wanted her to drink this giant pitcher of water and she was not having any of that.

Not terribly useful but just something cute I wanted to share. <3

[Aristeia]

I don't give you thread control if I am mafia unless my partner is already very deep in your townreads.

[Aristeia]

ty

you as well dear

[Aristeia]

i just woke up from my nap

i had a dream that me/skitter/dats were drinking at a bar

I snoozing on Datisi's shoulder because I had a bit too much to drink and his shoulder smelled nice

Skitter was fighting with the waiter because she had too much to drink and he wanted her to drink this giant pitcher of water and she was not having any of that.

Not terribly useful but just something cute I wanted to share. <3

i picture people as looking like their avatars

was skitter a tiger

no that would've been quite weird to have a tiger drinking beer

[Aristeia]

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

this is what you said to Datisi.

So in my mind you wanted your coalition [Skitter/Irrel/Mena/Dats/STD] but you would flip Dats

if it failed

. I can't accept you trying to flip Dats for

your coalition failing

the only thing I did was put myself in for STD because I knew it was functionally the same thing as

your coalition

except it would pass if STD was mafia and it also is the coalition Datisi wanted.

[Aristeia]

I wouldn't be happy about flipping Datisi either way but like I'd feel more upset about you flipping him if he didn't even get to pick the coalition that passed.

[Aristeia]

on the other hand

1) you double the odds of hitting scum in coalition where the elims always start.[makes it hard to mislim early]

2) you have awkward associatives because they have to townread each other to get in in the first place.

3) you have to nightkill in coalition after hitting scum to maintain the "illusion" that the coalition is clean which means the second scum has to be positioned perfectly[can't be too townread]

4) you don't have anyone out of coalition which is usually more influential after coalition failure just from having.


I think it's more likely we have 2 in if like scum are less in control of who is going in coalition and unsure about getting in which doesn't really fit with how d1 played out imo.

[Aristeia]

like from my POV you had a core group of 4 - [skitter/irrel/mena/std] that you wanted - you couldn't decide on #5 and you were ok with putting Datisi in for #5.

So if there's 2 scum in the coalition + you are town it would have to be 1 person in Irrel/Mena + Datisi or exactly Irrel/Mena.

If you had someone in Irrel/Mena already scum, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Datisi to push his way in too so it would be basically Irrel/Mena?

[Aristeia]

scum-me me to be very influential after flipping scum-dats lets say

I think it would be very strange for you to survive the night after flipping Datisi!scum given your UTR status going into coalition.

[Aristeia]

I mean fair but basically everyone wanted him in and was townreading him, do u think he would have declined putting himself in as scum?

I don't think he works that hard to get in if his partner is already in and you've stated you want to flip him if the coalition fails

[Aristeia]

it would be lowkey so ironic if the scumteam is just skitter+datisi

[Aristeia]

rite ratobarita urusu ariarosu baru netoriiru

[Aristeia]

it takes a lot of effort to restrain myself because I really do want to be carried :<

[Aristeia]

skitter: i don't really think she has that reaction to the coalition failing as scum? like yea obviously the play is to look like frustrated town and to be all like "ah i knew we should have done this instead", but the thing is that i don't think the direction she went was ever gonna hold up?? like i feel like doing that is only ever going to weaken her position (and it did, datisi started scumreading her more for it). and its just not really the kind of play i have seen from scum skitter, i don't see why she fakes that and weakens herself just for a hope at a tonal townread. that's not at all what I would expect from scum skitter

what do you expect scum!skitter to do

[Aristeia]

what do you expect scum!skitter to do

in short, suspect people for good reasons. like ive only ever seen early game scum skitter but i mostly remember her saying lots of reasonable things that most people would agree with and couldn't really be disputed that easily.

so id think she would express some paranoia around you and/or datisi to keep those options open but i don't really think she'd jump to you as a team right off the bat and then also back off right after. as someone widely townread she doesn't really have to lead and can just prod around a bit and let other people convince her of things

her reaction does follow from what she wanted earlier, so it isn't like out of nowhere, but it feels like she just jumped headfirst into the fire for no good reason... ok actually wait there is one possible good reason which is if she is partnered with irrel/mena. but anyway outside of that i just don't expect scum skitter to do things for no good reason

maybe im wrong on that and if you can convince me that there is a good reason (outside of just matching town tone, don't think she needs that) or of her doing similar things in the past as scum then i can reconsider

correct me if I'm wrong but you're townreading her for making a bad push against me?

[Aristeia]

where skitter was very much open to the idea of ari being in a coalition, or like slowly nudging in that direction

This is reductive and not my actual position

I made it *very* clear that i didn't want ari in, and that i only ultimately voted her as a compromise so that i'd be voting for something semi- viable at deadline.

I don't actually know which coalition you wanted that excluded both me and datisi.

as far as I remember you wanted irrel/yourself/mena/std but you didn't have a fifth?

[Aristeia]

I don't think you quite understand how to play mafia alignment if you think a mafia skitter would be content to sit still and poke/prod without shaping the game state towards mis-eliminating townies because that's *literally* her win condition if she is mafia.

As for why skitter would push me -> like mala/nk15 have both indicated they thought I was at the top of their scum list[which makes me viable for being eliminated], she's a town leader and she already set up a trajectory to push me for "paranoia" and being the failure point on her coalition - it allows her to push through this day phase without doing meaningful re-evaluation of her original coalition.

The goal of being scum is to kill people who are town, one of the central tenets of that is to have a believable push progression; it is fairly trivial and simple for her to continue her push against me, it is far simpler and cleaner for her to do than to flip a read on say irrel or mena because that would be complicated - she has to actually push someone inside the coalition as being mafia.

[Aristeia]

i think specifically in the position she is in in the current gamestate with the current level of suspicion on her she would be more likely to lose standing by making that push and there's very little she could gain from it, and i think she as scum would know that

the gain would be eliminating me, it would be [1/3] of the way to winning for her.

[Aristeia]

like a lot of her thoughts are incongruent and don't make sense to me in aggregate;



here she's suspect of mala's suspicion of me - she kind of has a back and forth with mala and I don't see anything in it that makes me think she actually changed her mind on this.



She thinks you made a good point about including me but she's promptly forgotten this and decided to push me without examining who I am supposed to be allied to on her original coalition.



like how does it make sense for her to think I'm scum with NK15? like sure maybe he's semi-gamethrowing by tunneling his partner for the lulz but like I kind of pointed out his meta so I'd be gamethrowing too? also this contradicts previous point she thought that I am allied with someone already in the coalition.



and when NK15 votes me (this really should be kind of expected because he's been tunneling me all game for garbage reasons) - she seems surprised? Which is kind of ????? because in her original post about voting me she is basically pegging the scum team as me/nk15 which makes sense due to his meta of derptunneling his teammate so why is she even asking him why he's voting for me ???

[Aristeia]

if you think that her actions so far this phase have meaningfully advanced the gamestate toward a goal of eliminating you and remaining as a town leader afterwards then tbh i think you're misreading the gamestate. i think they've done the opposite if anything

I mean she doesn't know how the push will go before she makes it?

like everything involves risk. You're townreading her for her push failing. This is kind of similar to Prism trying to push me and getting shoved back and doing a reflexive stepback.

Mafia do not know which pushes will work when they try them - they can only make an educated guess and try their best.

[Aristeia]

I feel bad about giving you anxiety : (

[Aristeia]

where skitter was very much open to the idea of ari being in a coalition, or like slowly nudging in that direction

This is reductive and not my actual position

I made it *very* clear that i didn't want ari in, and that i only ultimately voted her as a compromise so that i'd be voting for something semi- viable at deadline.

I don't actually know which coalition you wanted that excluded both me and datisi.

as far as I remember you wanted irrel/yourself/mena/std but you didn't have a fifth?

that is correct. i never got to a satisfactory fifth
i was lowky thinking fire but i never fully got there/i don't think i voiced that

I think you said you were deciding between me/dats/fire and that fire was "borderline" and you also didnt want nk15 or mala.

[Aristeia]

i think specifically in the position she is in in the current gamestate with the current level of suspicion on her she would be more likely to lose standing by making that push and there's very little she could gain from it, and i think she as scum would know that

the gain would be eliminating me, it would be [1/3] of the way to winning for her.

i mean so would eliminating ... town-dats
(or town-irrel or town-mena ...)
(and flipping irrel or dats would make it easier to flip you later, no?)

well NK15 wanted to kill me or dats

and mala wanted to kill me

so wouldn't it make sense for you to push me given it's cleanest trajectory and you have 2 votes that are leaning that way already?

[Aristeia]

HURT: all
HEAL: me, ari, dats, irrel, std

also another thing

its super weird to me that you wanted this coalition instead of the one that passed which switches out Mena for STD but you also have Mena as untouchable today after failure which is like a ??????

[Aristeia]

like if Mena's is your top townread in coalition after coalition failure why would you be willing to swap him out of coalition for STD?

[Aristeia]

I think your issue is more that nobody agrees with you

[Aristeia]

would you have wanted irrel/std/mena/skitter/me?

cuz thats what i literally offered you

[Aristeia]

well you were the most healed person the first time I did a VC so I guess you're kind of stuck being the leader unless someone else wants it.

I can be your fifth if you want me to be your fifth because I know I'm town but if you don't know it I suggest you find someone you can trust.

this is me on friday ^

i am offering to vote for your coalition + anyone

the only reason i wasnt ok with fifth being datisi is because of how his coalition overlapped and that you said you wanted to yeet him on failure.

[Aristeia]

@ari why not std?

I am sheeping Dats because in the world where we have to kill him I want him to have a chance to win for us

and this was my response to you on it.

"the world where we have to kill him" refers to him being your fifth on your core. as in if you want to murder him on coalition failure, then he should at least get to pick his coalition as in me instead of std.

i am not against being your fifth or voting for a coalition without dats on it.

[Aristeia]

if you are extremely certain irrel/mena are town i can flip dats and then nk15 if dats is scum but id want to flip you tomm if dats is town

[Aristeia]

i was fine with voting for you/std/irrel/mena/me

when i offer to be your fifth, the implication is that i would vote for it

[Aristeia]

i dont have enough from the two that aren't talking rn

[Aristeia]

the fact that you are actually reconsidering ari is... okay, i guess? i don't love it since my immediate mental response is that you're backpedaling, but i shouldn't be mindlessly tunnelling. i'll go over our convo from today when i'm back from uni and see if i have any new thoughts.

um what is town!her supposed to do there? Just double down when the facts are clearly against her interpretation of events? -__-

[Aristeia]

I mean her trajectory is nonsensical but it could just as easily be town!her was stressed/distracted at work and didn't understand what I was telling her rather than scum!her decided to pull out some absurd trajectory to push me?

[Aristeia]

I am kind of creeped out by NK15 saying to flip me and then flip skitter when i flip town cuz like maybe he's just a scumbag and we're T/T here

[Aristeia]

how come when i said it to you it didnt make any sense for you >.>

am i just bad with words

[Aristeia]

Oh and i missed the latter question: i think that you should recognize that i dont start the day pushing ari today as scum
A diabolical plan to keep ari right on the edge of my reads so i can push her into the coalition so i can try to flip her first is just ... not how i would be approaching this as scum, for many reasons

ok how would you be approaching this as scum?

[Aristeia]

i'd be starting off with ari when she's fairly widely townread ans unlikely to get voted out with significant effort

I feel like we just have different views of how easy it would be to push me?

you're vote #1 and still kind of influential

mala/nk15 both have me at the very bottom of their readlists yesterday so they can be 2/3.

let's say you have a partner who is not mala/nk15 - that would be #4/5? <so realistically you just need like one more vote, which could come from someone readflipping on me or like someone who hasn't really committed to anything?>

You're realistically fairly close? Like I don't think it's that difficult to push me in this PL ?

[Aristeia]

@ari: i think as scum, with this coalition, i probably would be going after mena (and i dont think i would have townread him as strongly earlier either), or would be actually hard-pushing dats rn like i said i would do yesterday vs this mess of whatever i'm doing rn. I think i would have just picked something and stuck with it

not sure I think it makes sense for scum!you to try to mislim town!mena

he is a bit more polarized than either me or dats and it's easier for him to towntell also I do kind of think he would expect you to read him correctly and put up more of a fight? [Like I can sort of see you misreading me off paranoia[etc] while I don't think he would be as accomodating?]

[Aristeia]

STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored!

i felt this in my soul because i feel like i took effort to be less vibey and more analytically for the gamestate and i got mostly shot down and it made me feel small ngl so i appreciate you seeing me i know i'm being a little too emotional and need to step back but i did appreciate this so thank you

the fact you have the same scum read as i still means you're either pocketing me hard for no reason because i have no influence in this gamestate or we're kindred town and we may be onto something here so i'm thinking it's the latter

I am sorry if I ever made you feel small - it was not my intent to do so :<

[Aristeia]

I was ready day 1 to bet the game on me/skitter/datisi/aristeia/std being town and I still am

What will you do if Menalque flips town?

Ari how are u reading nk15 again?

I don't think he's outside of his townrange. [mean to say i know >.>]

[Aristeia]

if the gamestate is skitt/dats r t-t then like;

I don't like mena basically being awol for so long this phase[yes he said he was vla weekend but like its monday night in spain atp]

i find scum often have trouble interjecting into t v t game states because they dont want to fuck up the conflict or give themselves away - so if dats/skitter is t-t i can see mena being uncomfortable wading into it.

whereas irrelephant is just full on going in with the t-t -> mena push?

i mean maybe he is just exceptionally gifted scum who sees the t/t conflict being resolved eventually and needs to get a jump on mena but that would be some foresight.

i guess it could just be that he thinks flipping mena and preserving the schism between dats/skitter is worth it for f7 but theres no gurantee the embers get rekindled or that skitter/dats dont unite vs him for getting their mutual townread mena yeeted d1

[Aristeia]

nk15 is a lol-hammerer pls no e-1 vote

[Aristeia]

nk15 is a lol-hammerer pls no e-1 vote

I am what?

lol hammerer means you hammer things at e-1 with no warning

[Aristeia]

Dats may I please have one of your cute little triangle diagram things for your thoughts rn <3

[Aristeia]

the competing wagons.

the only people pushing menalque this game day are
A. outside the coalition
B. Me (and I know I’m not scum)

as someone who has not drawn a correct conclusion from vca once in my life: what

I think his point is that we know:

(a) there is a scum in the coalition

(b) that scum is not pushing mena despite mena being the easiest push rn

therefore he's decided mena is the scum in the coalition since nobody in the coalition is pushing mena except for himself and he knows he's not scum.

[Aristeia]

I guess it works if like mena is going to tip over and die even if you don't push him and you look better tomm after he flips town?

[Aristeia]

aww now I want to ride a hot air balloon with you even though you are scared of heights

[Aristeia]

if he's town then he is not only tunneled on me/you being s/s but also decided he wants to end the game as soon as possible so he can gloat post game about how we are s/s and nobody listened to him.

[Aristeia]

I'm still kinda dubious mena is scum, i'm dubious that there isnt a cw, and the current wagon comp is Not Good

I don't understand why the current wagon comp is not good

[Aristeia]

like nk15/mala/std contains max 1 mafia by mech so 2/3 town there at least.

and irrel is in your towncore last i checked? - if irrel is town it's a 3/4 town wagon or maybe even 4/4 town.

[Aristeia]

I dont like it because I have doubts that both you and dats are wrong about mena at the same time

but also like we did kind of sideline 4 people out of coalition and this is the flip they want so for the sake of fairness maybe I should just shut up.

I am conflicted

also mena not talking really doesnt help -__-

[Aristeia]

1 seems like a poor choice considering you aren't likely to really get much cred for it

I mean if you're scum and off coalition and everyone else off coalition wants to vote your scum partner I think you kind of just go with the flow?

it's not really about good strategic choices as much as "meh whatever"

[Aristeia]

maybe its just mena/nk15 and this game isnt that hard

[Aristeia]

its such an incredible leap to think std is the scummiest out of the 4 left out

i should probably actually read mena's case huh.

[Aristeia]

dark theme is so ugly tho

[Aristeia]

tiger theme is gross

[Aristeia]

if he doesn't think this will work doesn't it just make this performative?

[Aristeia]

Also given that we have around 3 days left and there’s no PRs and I’ve very clearly not been able to play, maybe we slow the fuck up on ending day before I get testy

Especially when if I get my teeth into things I can do things like what I did in ktane, which if I do here and anyone doesn’t see I’m town, they’re essentially scumclaiming

I don't think I've been trying to rush the day at all.

You should know that I want you to push someone inside the coalition because pushing outside is kind of a non starter?

We didn't put all the LHFs outside to begin pushing them now coalition has failed.

[Aristeia]

what's the point tho if he's imminently getting flipped
like i guess he can be creating a trail away from his partner

but like why do that instead of try to not get flipped

like you're trying to look for logic for why scum would do X

when most of the time scum are just trying to avoid getting elimmed if they are getting elimmed.

so they do things because it gets people to townread them.

[Aristeia]

like if scum!mena is very sure he's getting flipped today

why wouldn't he just tunnel the same person he's been tunneling all game previously? if anything it prevents him from anti-spewing someone else as not his partner

and it might get him townread because people say "why would mena!scum do that!?"

[Aristeia]

-vaguely irritated that he has to do this instead of being merely accepted as a beacon of towniness? check

like who do you think is in the coalition who is the least townie?

rn a lot of people think its you

if you can make a better case for someone else I'm all ears.

[Aristeia]

i gotta take my tue/wed v/la this week because uni is hell and i need to sleep - will try to properly read and digest the mena/std thing tomorrow during my commute

sleep well dats! hope uni gets better

pedit ok maybe this is like another prism situation and he's doing all this to get me to townread him and i'm veryu susceptible to that
but like beyond that motivation this seems like an *incredibly* questionable path for scum-him to take here when he's in quite immediate danger of getting flipped

I dunno I just feel really weird about him not having a top suspect in the coalition cuz thats the only thing i've been thinking about for the last 3-4 days and he's like "i dont have a clue lets go kill std instead" and that's very ???? to me?

[Aristeia]

ok but in that game the votes for flipping him weren't there - town was divided and he didn't need to do anything to stall out the clock and let the town eat each other

[Aristeia]

so who do you think scum in the coalition is?

[Aristeia]

like let's say it's not mena - where do we go?

[Aristeia]

well you have less than 3 days to make a really good case for the one you want cuz otherwise we're just going to default to Mena atp

like saying "I don't think it's mena cuz of "why would scum him do this?" is not going to be enough.

I also think its a terrible idea to elim off coalition rn.

[Aristeia]

like maybe I'm just really pocketed very hard by dats/irrel

I'm not even that sure mena is mafia, I just think everyone else in coalition feels a lot townier >_>

[Aristeia]

if the gamestate is skitt/dats r t-t then like;

I don't like mena basically being awol for so long this phase[yes he said he was vla weekend but like its monday night in spain atp]

i find scum often have trouble interjecting into t v t game states because they dont want to fuck up the conflict or give themselves away - so if dats/skitter is t-t i can see mena being uncomfortable wading into it.

whereas irrelephant is just full on going in with the t-t -> mena push?

i mean maybe he is just exceptionally gifted scum who sees the t/t conflict being resolved eventually and needs to get a jump on mena but that would be some foresight.

i guess it could just be that he thinks flipping mena and preserving the schism between dats/skitter is worth it for f7 but theres no gurantee the embers get rekindled or that skitter/dats dont unite vs him for getting their mutual townread mena yeeted d1

[Aristeia]

I like how present Dats is and his willingness to engage with people[it feels very different from how he played Spring Fling as mafia] and he just feels so mindmeldy with me at times like when he recalled Mena saying we do not guillotine inside the coalition etc from that game years ago.

and like maybe I'm just pocketed but it's hard for me to see scum!him? [Like maybe you can say that your coalition of 4 + me would've won and he saw that coming and he decided to preempt you by convincing me to back his coalition instead but like it's not exactly something town him wouldn't do?]

[Aristeia]

like for irrelephant i just think it's much cleaner and easier line for him to play into the dats/skitter conflict and maybe chain your elims rather than being like "no we r going to kill mena" who you both townread.

It's a gamble yea but like most of the time scum don't burn towncred if they don't need to and if the elim is falling inside dats/skitter he doesn't really need to?

[Aristeia]

I'm not like extremely confident in either of those reads so if you have something you feel strongly about pls change my mind

[Aristeia]

skitter I dunno if I'm being unfair but like shouldn't you be trying to convince Mena that STD is town since he's one of your top townreads and trying to get them to not murder each other today?

cuz like time is running out and rereading your iso since mena dropped his case on STD it doesn't feel like you're really trying to get him on the same page as you with regards to STD and you're not really pushing an alternative here?

[Aristeia]

I guess the difference for me was that Irrel was posting and saying hey I think skitt/ari/dats are all town; let's lim mena, whereas Mena wasn't atp in the game.

like if he's mafia doesn't that just cause him to get limmed the next day after mena flips town?

[Aristeia]

@Skitter

Day 2 has strengthened my townread on Aristeia and my scumread on mena
Datisi and skitter are each, if scum, knocking it out of the park.

We are flipping Aristeia. If Ari is town, we are flipping skitter. If Ari is scum, we flip Datisi. Does anyone disagree?

Yes I absolutely disagree

i dont have enough from the two that aren't talking rn

Trust me I’ll have lots to say when not on v/la


Menalque has not posted in day 2. His entire ISO reads fake to me and skitter has him as locktown for not trying very hard. STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored! I’ve skimmed everything after 1333 because Datisi and skitter are pushing skitter for being inconsistent and thoughtless (does that sound like her scum game?) and skitter is pushing Datisi. Fire at one point suggested Menalque is my last-minute attempt to find a mislim inside the coalition which… lol I was trying to push Menalque out of the coalition att. I feel like everyone has lost their minds and refuses to even consider Occam’s razor: low-poster is scum. Like - at least consider it? I’ll write the same thing but in 900-word paragraphs if that’s the only way to get through to you people

EBWOP: “Skitter is pushing Datisi for lame reasons too imo”.

Occam’s razor: low-poster is scum.

so the scumteam is nk/mala and ydrasse is trolling us?

i'm like, i will consider scum!mena. but i need a bit more to actually convince me he's viable to be scum considering i feel like he has hit multiple towntells while he's been here...

Obviously not
but I do think the most likely team is [lowest poster in the coalition] + [lowest poster outside the coalition] AKA mena/nk15

I think the strongest point in town!std’s and scum!mena’s favor(s) is the competing wagons. The majority wagon flipped red, and I do currently think that’s a lot of scum points towards the 3 who were both in the coalition and voting for it. But then I think datisi and aristeia are town. So: Menalque. This is not my entire case, it’s just a major point nobody has brought up, full case will come tomorrow (or you know, read StD’s posts/interact with him like he might be seeing something you’re not, instead of waiting for me). @skitter and @datisi, you’ve both acknowledged at least one weird thing about menalque’s ISO recently iirc. Nobody is saying you have to lim him, just to give him more scrutiny than “until someone PROVES BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT I WILL NEVER VOTE THERE”

Oh also the only people pushing menalque this game day are
A. outside the coalition
B. Me (and I know I’m not scum)
Which makes the idea that he’s low-hanging fruit not ring true for me. YMMV

Tbh skitter suggesting menalque is the one place she’d basically never vote is the scummiest thing she’s done this game. I get a townread on menalque but also… is it TMI? Partners, which is why she wanted StD in instead? This is why skitter is 5% less town than datisi/aristeia. That said I don’t actually think skitter is scum at all, really.


This is what datisi/aristeia/skitter feel like imo.

[Aristeia]

I don't want skitter to be scum, @aristeia @std @fire please determine if this is tvt or tvs so I can proceed accordingly

why would scum!skitter defend scum!mena in this game state?

[Aristeia]

hmmm good point
town!skitter can't see the case and defends weird-townie from Irrelephant who's spearheading a mislim
scum!skitter knows if her partner goes down she can't get three mislims before it turns on her, as someone who's been named as a potential partner?

Yeah I guess the first is a little more likely? Let me write it out:
Scum!skitter who turns around on mena chains mena > NK15 > mala > datisi/aristeia
Whereas defending mena, she goes Irrelephant > mena > NK15 > mala
Well wait now that I've written out I feel like the second does sound like a better route for scum her?

I think she can get mala/nk killed fairly easily if she turns on mena and that gets her to elo. it makes much more sense than defending him here.

[Aristeia]

like if she yeets town!you here - I think mena/her just get chain flipped on d2/3? so it doesnt seem like a very good plan for scum!her to defend scum!mena

[Aristeia]

Irrel how sure are you that Mena is scum? cuz if you/him are T/T and one of skitter/datisi is WKing mena we are going to lose at the current trajectory.

I am not sure you've actually thought this out for very long.

[Aristeia]

probably Datisi/Skitter both being town.

I am conflicted about you/Mena

[Aristeia]

like you seem to be saying that

Mena + NK15/Mala is your solve.

and Mena is scum by POE cuz skitt/dats/me are town

but everyone outside the coalition is ok with voting off Mena

and everyone inside the coalition is having cold feet with voting off Mena

and I think that doesn't really compute with your worldview in some ways?

Like does either Mala/Nk15 really get to endgame after Mena!scum goes down today? Niether of them are out-towning STD/Fire and they have to survive 3 lims?

I do recognize that like maybe they just got dealt these cards and this is the only way they can really play them cuz saying no doesn't really work out for them but I feel icky about it.

[Aristeia]

Mena can you talk to me about why you think Mala is town this game since KTANE ended and she basically awoled all of that game too

[Aristeia]

the "rush the day" comment was directed at Relly

and we put them outside because they were non-townie, not because they were LHF -- not sure I get the relevance of the point here on if we should lim there or not, or are you saying it's harder to find the scum among the scummy players than to find the real town amongst the towny ones?

I'm uncomfortable liming outside coalition before we find at least one scum inside coalition unless the degree of certainty is extremely high and if it ever is that high then you can treat the slot as preflipped anyway?

[Aristeia]

Mena can you talk to me about why you think Mala is town this game since KTANE ended and she basically awoled all of that game too

I don't think I've ever said that mala is town based on what she's done

to the extent I think she is, it's an extrapolation from StD being scum rather than based on her own play

yes I know

but for you to think STD is lock scum it would require you to also believe Mala is town and I'm looking at her iso today and I have trouble putting her there.



it's just ??? and I don't see how from your POV you get there?

[Aristeia]

like you just played a game with scum!her [KTane] where she was extremely lurky as scum and I dunno how you see her just voteparking you with not much posting and basically afk and think "this is a town player"

[Aristeia]

ok

what do you think of irrelephant ?

[Aristeia]

[1] Irrelephant11: Not Known 15

[1]Save the Dragons: Menalque

[1] Irrelephant: fireisredsir

lol the votecount has two irrelephants i thought I was going crazy >.>

[Aristeia]

ok can you like actually focus on the sorting within the coalition thing instead of trying to kill STD cuz I highly doubt you have the votes to kill STD today :>

[Aristeia]

um your reasons are not v good.

1- I'd always try to pocket you as scum. Pocketing you is just something that I would enjoy doing and it doesn't have to have an obvious benefit.
2. I do make that effort as scum - esp to shut down a push coming from a townleader very early in the day and I don't need to push skitter - de-escalating and pretending to sort her is much better to do strategically.
3. I mean it could just be some excuse I made up to force my way into a coalition and blame failure on skitter?
4. I don't really need to push anyone on d2 if townies are fighting among each other and I'm not really being threatened.

here is the only reason you need:

I literally never rand scum <3

[Aristeia]

maybe this will jinx myself for next game :<

that would be unfortunate

[Aristeia]

the first reason was good tho !

[Aristeia]

maybe you're just mafia and I am completely pocketed <3

[Aristeia]

it is nice to be pocketed I am going to take a nap in your pocket <3 you dear

[Aristeia]

my eyes are glazing over and i don't like the way the vc in 1700 is looking at me

so what you're saying here is that me and ari should each vote one of irrel/mena, leaving them both at e-1 with only you left unvoted and you get to choose who to hammer?

that's what you want, right?

p sure nk15 will hammer mena

[Aristeia]

also relying on Dats to decide things is uh

hehe

[Aristeia]

also relying on Dats to decide things is uh

hehe

fun if you want to see me suffer, not fun if you actually want to win this game of mafia

<3

there is a voice in my head that tells me i shouldnt trust you but i locked it inside a safe and dumped it into the ocean.

[Aristeia]

there is a voice in my head that tells me i shouldnt trust you but i locked it inside a safe and dumped it into the ocean.

is there anything that i can do to help this? :<

@mena pls explain

what do you mean. do you want to fish him out of the ocean ? :>

[Aristeia]

who is even confbiased? you have std/irrel/mala voting for you

the first 2 r scum according to you and mala hasnt posted in 2 days

[Aristeia]

no its weird to me that you r saying flip you -> irrel -> me when the game state is saying that irrel probly gets flipped today.

[Aristeia]

its 3-3

fire unvoted irrel for vc reasons
dats is hardtownreading you
i am not feeling great either way

i dont even understand why you think you get flipped first today so it feels performative to me.

[Aristeia]

just dont self vote like ktane pls

[Aristeia]

sigh >.>

[Aristeia]

yes me getting exasperated and getting worried these two are t-t is definitely how i would play it as scum

pls tell me more skitter

[Aristeia]

its like

mena desperate > mena unaware of game state > mena town

[Aristeia]

we mindmeld a lot >.>

[Aristeia]

just blame it on me

[Aristeia]

mb hes confbiased on you

[Aristeia]

like if irrel is flipping town its not like menas read of you means anything

[Aristeia]

good night dear <3

[Aristeia]

i guess i can do irrelephant cuz i dont like listening to toxic mena rage at me ~.~

[Aristeia]

i don't get it i don't see the need to put extra effort to make a case that's not accurate even if he's confirm biased. that took a conscious effort that i believe comes from scum and it's hard for me to see it any other way

it's frustrating because i've had this happen to me before and i was right and no one listened to me

well if hes town and he thinks hes going to get flipped and he wants us to deadsheep him then it makes sense to drop a fat case on you

he has done this in the past.

[Aristeia]

i will also point out that your current play today looks p similar to what you're outlining in 4

Dats: Ari is town because she's not really pushing anyone

Ari: Well I could not push anyone as scum too!

Skitter: Ari is definitely not pushing anyone.

Like um ok so?

[Aristeia]

yes me getting exasperated and getting worried these two are t-t is definitely how i would play it as scum

pls tell me more skitter

you've been dinging me for a lot of the day for not having a solid scumread
you don't either and seem kinda content to just watch this play out

I don't think I've ever felt content today

[Aristeia]

like if we flip irrel and he flips mafia sure i'll be happy but if he flips town I am kind of worried we just lose this

[Aristeia]

I'm not convinced this isn't T-T and I've seen Mena hard tunnel d1 on a townie before.

yea I did say I townread you/dats more than mena/irrel but its not a comfortable feeling

[Aristeia]

i will also point out that your current play today looks p similar to what you're outlining in 4

Dats: Ari is town because she's not really pushing anyone

Ari: Well I could not push anyone as scum too!

Skitter: Ari is definitely not pushing anyone.

Like um ok so?

i'm implying that it hink it's scummy for you

it's scummy for me to what?

[Aristeia]

I guess that's fair

I just haven't really felt great this game and like it feels like if Irrel/Mena is s/t then it will resolve itself and if its t/t then like nobody is really going to listen or step back from tunneling each other so it feels kind of ick.

[Aristeia]

if they r t/t i would guess datisi - mala for the scum team

[Aristeia]

well if its t t and ur t and u vote me it will be a quick game

[Aristeia]

great ... in the tvt universe i would be immensely suspicious of you
also why are you sure that it's going to resolve itself (are you confident that the other is getting flipped tomorrow if one greens today?)
do u have a preference?

i prefer flipping irrel today if we r flipping in those 2

[Aristeia]

Mala isn't really posting and she has played a few scum games where she lurked and did nothing recently;

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89120

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=89308

I don't think she's as comfortable posting when she's mafia.

the more I think about it, the more I think the way she keeps talking to me about how I shouldn't trust Datisi is some kind of weird reverse psych trick where she is trying to get me to think the opposite of what she wants because she thinks I think she's mafia

[Aristeia]

I guess I also kind of townread you more than Dats? It's weird because even though he's playing very well - you just feel more spontaneous?

[Aristeia]

like the way she went from "don't trust dats/ari!!!!!! dont put them in the coaltion!!" to after coalition faillure "I think ari/dats are town" like is kind of weird to me

[Aristeia]

obviously I can't ask her about any of this because she rep'd out but I was kind of waiting to ask her whenever she decided to show up >_>

[Aristeia]

like the way I play town skitter

I kind of have a motivation bar, a certainty bar, and an energy bar.

If Mena and Irrel really want to do their 1v1 thing and I'm not very certain about my own solution, I'm just kind of ambivalent about letting them do their own thing because it takes too much of my energy to convince them not to

and they could always just be right about each other and I could be wrong.

I rarely commit energy to things I don't feel sure of and sometimes I'm sure of something and it's just wrong.

I don't enjoy being a dictator/hardpushing what I want everytime because it's kind of insufferable for other people to play with me when I'm like that as Prism so eloquently put it. I am working on being a nicer person and it's hard for me - I do understand why you would scum read it though.

[Aristeia]

i am tring dats

i am saying if they r t-t then i would suspect dats - mala

[Aristeia]

ig just from sitting on the outside i can see a fair amt of scum motivation for how you're playing rn
i'm not necessarily calling you scum for it but it does make me go hmmmmmmmmm esp if we're considering irrel/mena tvt universes (which ftr i don't consider super likely)

i also hope its not t-t cuz we probly lose if it is t-t

[Aristeia]

also why are you going irrel over mena?

i tend to townread mena when he acts like mean to me :<

[Aristeia]

sorry: that you're not townreading dats as strongly as i would have expected you to be here

I'm not used to confident dats :<

i usually townbin him off paranoia tbh

[Aristeia]

Hi Roden!

[Aristeia]

hello roden!

~
ari how likely do u think we're in a irrel/mena tvt universe?

I don't really know

[Aristeia]

Hello

I skimmed the past couple pages and mod posts, can I get a basic summary of anything important/notable that happened so far?

coalition failed - we are eliminating inside this group of 5:

skitter
ari
datisi
menal
irrelephant

you should let us know who you want to vote off.

[Aristeia]

mena i just want to be clear here

if irrel flips town you get flipped tomm and you never call bop in any game with me again ok?

[Aristeia]

like if you're going to vote Relly do it because you think he's scum not because you're worried about something that won't happen

I'm going to vote for Irrel today because that's the elimination you want to happen and I personally don't enjoy the type of things you've said about me. I do not want it to get more unpleasant.

[Aristeia]

I'm worried about whether she's also thinking about 5p elo after limming me/relly in either order.

this is just wrong

if anything worrying about 5p is very hand tipping and incredibly stupid for me to do as scum.

if I am scum and you/irrel are t/t I just follow skitter's line and say "oh this is probly not t-t" I have no need to worry about shit

[Aristeia]

the only slot I really feel any degree of confidence in flipping scum atp is Mala's slot

I dunno if irrel/mena is t/s or t/t, it is very difficult for me to read, I am very susceptible to fatalistic "flip me then him ate"

[Aristeia]

just dont self vote like ktane pls

for example here I am trying to get you to calm down

We won ktane so I think I’ll do whatever I want

and you're just like shut up I'll do whatever I want.


I don't know if you/irrel are t/t or t/s but when you start getting heated with him it's very hard for me to read into it and lowkey unpleasant to read and it feels like a lot of the time you're saying things to me like "I was right in Ktane so you should let me do whatever I want"

like I was asking you about who is confbiased because I don't understand your worldview and you immediately snapped at me and called me scummy for it?

It's just very exhausting for me to try to talk to you and figure this out and your feedback to me has been downright hostile and I'm not very good at dealing with it and I kind of just want to throw my hands up and not try to sort it.

[Aristeia]

like you keep implying that I'm angling to vote you and trying to treat you as scum or w/e except I wouldn't even have these criticisms of your play if I didn't think you were doing this as town. Like scum!you is welcome to be as unpleasant as he wants to win and make things difficult for me because that's literally your win condition and you're welcome to do whatever you think is necessary to get there. I would just like it if town!you stopped being so hostile because it's just ick.

[Aristeia]

I do like your choice of alt to replace in on

it is my favorite personality of yours

[Aristeia]

it would've been confusing if you used your serious aggro alt

[Aristeia]

he's your #1 fan

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

it's ok I can't read him for shit either :<

[Aristeia]

sorry I just don't think those things are alignment indicative for him

[Aristeia]

like it doesn't help scum!him to keep shading you because you're not being flipped

he's not 1v1ing you, he's 1v1ing Irrel and you're probably anti-aligned with Irrel[unlikely to be s/s] so it's literally bad for scum!him to shade you as part of his 1v1 with irrel

also like he doesn't need to actually commit energy to fighting with you, his immediate goal today is to flip irrel and then accept being flipped the next day; scum!him knows irrel is flipping town so why even bother committing energy to fighting you?

it does make sense for town!him to do if he thinks irrel is flipping scum and then he's getting shot and he wants us to sheep him and flip you the next day.

[Aristeia]

Fen, sometimes things are just not possible to do and you shouldn't let that get to you. it's just a game and not something worth getting stressed over <3

[Aristeia]

you make me feel

like I matter

you do

[Aristeia]

its so weird to me you asked me just last night who i thought was scum if irrel-mena is t-t and i said its probly dats-mala and then irrel gets rep'd and the new rep tells you the same thing and your paranoia of me goes up

like seriously?

if irrel is scum then the rep is literally mirroring my position which makes me not aligned with the rep.

if irrel is town then the rep came to the same conclusions as me independently which still makes me town

[Aristeia]

- don't see why bloodhail mimicking you makes you unaligned (in fact i can see a universe where he's your partner and saw taht and said that *because* you said that)

skitter

when you rep into a scum slot

and your goal is to survive

you mirror the thought process of a

townie

because

(1) it's a townie thought process
(2) you can peel that townie to your side

you do not mirror the thought process of your scum partner because

(1) it's a scum thought process
(2) you don't need to persuade your partner, your partner will side with you if its best for their win condition.

[Aristeia]

here's another thing

you never bother discrediting someone that you're poe scumreading who is attacking you and is likely to get flipped

because if you think they're scum

their scumread of you dies as soon as they flip scum

you only bother doing discred because you need to win the argument

[Aristeia]

datisi and blood hail on the last page

[Aristeia]

you don't need to discredit the argument against you if its coming from someone that you think is scum by POE[it's like a poe argument anyway]

just vote the guy off and when he flips scum the argument dies on its own.

[Aristeia]

who r u even talking about

[Aristeia]

you think Datisi is going to flip me? I don't get it

[Aristeia]

Datisi!town doesn't need to discred BloodHail!scum because BloodHail!scum is going to flip scum.

Datisi only needs to discred BloodHail if bloodHail is going to flip town

[Aristeia]

maybe it really is just Datisi getting derptunneled by NK15

[Aristeia]

ok thank you, and im saying that datisi!town isn't necessarily sure that bloodhail is going to flip at all right now

like i think there's a world where the lim ends up on mena or even datisi today

and if datisi is town and thinks bloodhail is scum then wouldn't discrediting help prevent that?

well bh is at e-2 so it would make more sense for town!dats to just vote him and push for elimination?

it's kind of what is left unsaid atp

[Aristeia]

maybe it really is just Datisi getting derptunneled by NK15

i think dats taking the time to argue against the possibility of that specific team is very minorly unaligning although certainly not something i'd bet the game on

it's such a weird time for roden to bus his partner if datisi is mafia with him?

I can't see a world where datisi flips today - is scum, and scum roden survives to win?

between the two of them they have enough votes to flip you - I don't see the point of taking the risk of bussing here.

[Aristeia]

mb I'm just being too first level with my logic here

[Aristeia]

its ok we are all level zero players in the eyes of saint koba